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I'd say so

hes up there but what about Magic Johnson, John Stockton, Bob Cousy, Oscar Robertson?

Better than Magic? No way.

why would you say he is? you claim this but have no argument.

IMO....(off the top of my head)

Magic
Stockton
Ocsar (if you consider him a PG)
Kidd
Nash
Isaiah

Originally posted by Mr.Biscuits
Better than Magic? No way.

It's a push between the two for me.


Magic was a much better scorer but Kidd is a much better defender.

Magic also had the benefit of playing with at least one Hall of Famer throughout his career.

Kidd got VC......




Also

By rule I personally tend to ignore players from before the 70's

stat inflation, poor talent spread, less rules and such and I generally believe that with their skill set, they couldn't even start in today's league

Originally posted by forumcrew
hes up there but what about Magic Johnson, John Stockton, Bob Cousy, Oscar Robertson?


Hate to disagree forum, but Kidd is no where near Magic's league.

magic is #1

but currently, i think Steve Nash is the best point guard in the NBA.
i mean come on! he nearly beat Magic's playoff assist record last year.

Nash may be the best in the NBA currently, but 3 seasons doesn't warrant being mentioned as one of the best of all time. His career doesn't come close to Kidd's or Magic's. I would have them as #1 and #2. Magic then Kidd.

Originally posted by DARKLORDCAEDUS
Hate to disagree forum, but Kidd is no where near Magic's league.

were not disagreeing. I agree that Magic is far above him, I think all the guys I mentioned are above Kidd. By saying he is up there I just meant Kidd is one of the best PG's of all time (meaning I would put him some where in the top 10) but definitely not THE best.

wasnt Jerry West a point?

Originally posted by Lord Evolution
Nash may be the best in the NBA currently, but 3 seasons doesn't warrant being mentioned as one of the best of all time. His career doesn't come close to Kidd's or Magic's. I would have them as #1 and #2. Magic then Kidd.

i'm sure his will compare by the time he retires.

Originally posted by forumcrew
were not disagreeing. I agree that Magic is far above him, I think all the guys I mentioned are above Kidd. By saying he is up there I just meant Kidd is one of the best PG's of all time (meaning I would put him some where in the top 10) but definitely not THE best.


OK Cool, Where would you put Jerry West?

Jerry is definetly up there he might be second to magic but not by much.

Jerry West is not better then

Jason Kidd
Magic Johnson
John Stockton
Isaiah Thomas
Gary Payton
Oscar Robertson
Walt Frazier
Nate Archibald

Jerry West is, however, better then

Steve Nash

YAY! Somebody else who believes Payton is better than Nash!

gary payton was one of the best. one of the best defenders at the pg position ever in my opinion. he and shawn kemp were a ery dynamic pairing.

Originally posted by Myth
YAY! Somebody else who believes Payton is better than Nash!


There are people who believe Nash is better then Payton?


Yeah...........................



at shooting.



Let's put it this way, there were times in GP's career where he was considered better then Stockton (granted these were very rare occurances, but they still happened)

how could anyone think Stockton lite, pass the defense, is better?

magic is #1

kidd is good

Originally posted by Mr.Biscuits
Better than Magic? No way. Indeed...Magic, Isiah Thomas, John Stockton, Cousy, Pistol Pete.....all better than Kidd.

Originally posted by Joey Stacks
There are people who believe Nash is better then Payton?




Yes, lots. Including ESPN.

Originally posted by Joey Stacks
I'd say so

stupid

lol @ Cousy and Pete being better then Kidd.

Pistol Pete is like the T-Mac of point guards, except his defense is a sin against humanity. No way in hell anyone could possibly think Bob Cousy is better then Jason Kidd in..............anything really.

Jerry West was a 2 guard by the way, one of the best in history.

Kidd is a rare kind of PG that can get a triple double in his sleep, he rebounds like a PF and has that quality that you cant teach where he knows where all his guys are at all times. Thats how some of his highlight passes come off, his teammates know that if they cut to the hoop even if he isnt looking at them he still knows where they are and will find them (no wonder everyone wants to play with him). His only weakness is outside shooting, you can still leave him out by the 3pt line and know he isnt gonna hurt you.
I think its pretty even between Kidd and Nash as far as top PG in the league today, Nash is a great shooter but a terrible defender and Kidd is the opposite. Everything else between them is pretty even except rebounding.

Magic is the greatest PG of all time imo, just the mismatch he creates is almost cause enough. He could back his man down and score all day and if he was doubled then it was a dunk for one of his teammates. He could play fast break or half court, post up or take you off the dribble. He even became a steady outside shooter later in his career with his shot put release. His only real weakness was that he wasnt a great man defender but he was able to cause problems because of his length and he played the passing lanes very well.

My top 5 PG's
1. Magic 2. Robertson 3. Isiah 4. Stockton 5. Kidd

i think steve nash is better offensively than gp, but i'd take gp over nashty at their primes any day. gp's defense was fantastic. i like steve nash as a player, but i think hes been overrated a little by the media. possibly because hes white.

I don't necessarily think its because he is white. I think it is more because it is because the Suns are "uptempo" which entertains most people.

Originally posted by vandalworks
i think steve nash is better offensively than gp, but i'd take gp over nashty at their primes any day. gp's defense was fantastic. i like steve nash as a player, but i think hes been overrated a little by the media. possibly because hes white. and the racial card is played.....

there is racism in the league though. i do think that people are looking for the next white hype, which is why people have latched onto steve nash as the next big thing. but i wouldnt put him top five players in the nba. i'm not even sure if hes the best white player in the nba.

Originally posted by vandalworks
there is racism in the league though. i do think that people are looking for the next white hype, which is why people have latched onto steve nash as the next big thing. but i wouldnt put him top five players in the nba. i'm not even sure if hes the best white player in the nba.
well he's definitely the best white player in the league that cant dunk... which gets narrowed down to him and jj reddick. but still, nash would be viewed the same even if he was black, a good player is a good player. and im tired of people talking different about athletes just because of their skin color, its stupid. athletes need to be judged by how good they are, not by genetics.

Originally posted by zjtrivium
well he's definitely the best white player in the league that cant dunk... which gets narrowed down to him and jj reddick. but still, nash would be viewed the same even if he was black, a good player is a good player. and im tired of people talking different about athletes just because of their skin color, its stupid. athletes need to be judged by how good they are, not by genetics.

oh i agree wholeheartedly. i was just saying that from a league and media point of view, i think a lot of the people involved there have that mentality. and its sad. i think nash is a great player but i'm unsure he warranted two straight mvps.

Originally posted by vandalworks
oh i agree wholeheartedly. i was just saying that from a league and media point of view, i think a lot of the people involved there have that mentality. and its sad. i think nash is a great player but i'm unsure he warranted two straight mvps.

Cosigned. And, I'm white!

I don't even think he deserved one! Let's look at this objectively too. And this is not Kobe crusade either. ..just using him as an example to illustrate a point.

I take Nash off the Suns-they're still going to the playoffs the last 2 years w/o him.

I take Kobe off the Lakers-the Blue Devils or Tarheels would give them a game.

i'm white also. dont forget that!

i think with the mvp thing, yes, kobe was more important to his team, but they did have a worse record. i think that goes some way in the voters mind as to who should get the mvp. i do think lebron should have been mvp last year, his numbers were fantastic.

Originally posted by vandalworks
i'm white also. dont forget that!

i think with the mvp thing, yes, kobe was more important to his team, but they did have a worse record. i think that goes some way in the voters mind as to who should get the mvp. i do think lebron should have been mvp last year, his numbers were fantastic.
i heard something like, to find the mvp they take the team's record and then they see what the team's record is when that person doesnt play, and whatever team has the worst record when the player isnt there is supposed to be the league mvp.
but i dont know, i never heard that before my friend said it.

i dont think so, i think its more than just that. itsd their importance to the team, their stats, how much difference they made if they're a new player etc.

They use this overall efficiency rating + team record to determine MVP.

It's really convoluted and stupid BUT it's also the reason why just about every team in the NBA is hesitant to pull the trigger on a Kobe trade since his rating is barely in the top 10

And I'd also like to point out that using their formula

Kidd > Bryant

and that makes me

Originally posted by vandalworks
i dont think so, i think its more than just that. itsd their importance to the team, their stats, how much difference they made if they're a new player etc.

If that were truly the case, Nash didn't deserve one. ...which is exaclty why him winning ONE was a farce.

What does the reward honor? Most valuable to his team? Most valuable to the league? Best player in the league?

Nash doesn't quality for any of these no matter how you define the award. Hey, he's a great PG, let's face it-one the of the best 5 ever.

But, he didn't deserve one these awards, let's get real.

Oh, and again....I'm white.

Magic can do more things.
Stockton passes better.
Isaiah and Gary have lock-down defense.
Oscar gets triple-doubles.
Nash shoots a higher percentage.

magic one of the most versatile players ever perhaps?

bobbyd, i never said that nash deserved the mvp.

Originally posted by vandalworks


bobbyd, i never said that nash deserved the mvp.

Vandal, I wasn't attacking. ..no biggie.

no probs sweet cheeks. just wanted to make it clear

stockton. i hated that guy. but since he retired i have so much respect for him. sneaky? maybe. but if the refs dont see it its a skill thats worth using! good shooter, and what a passer.