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Mannoroth the Destructor
http://www.wowwiki.com/images/3/3c/Mannoroth.jpg


VS


http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z156/DiffidentAngel/Illidan_Stormrage_by_sandara.jpg
Illidan Stormrage


Illidan defeated Magtheridon in Outland, who was a lesser Pit Lord, can he defeat the Lord of the Annihilan, Mannoroth the Destructor?

Flight Disabled

Yes.

I think he could.

How?

(Edit)

Remember, a normal Pit Lord is about 5-6 times better than a man, Mannoroth is more than 3 times bigger than a normal Pit Lord

Size ain't got to do with anything.

Illidan is faster, more magical(ROFL), and stuffs. Mannoroth got punked by Hellscream and Thrall.

Originally posted by Sol Valentine
Size ain't got to do with anything.

How'd you figure?

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Mannoroth got punked by Hellscream and Thrall.

PIS

Originally posted by Remindme
PIS How was it PIS?

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
How was it PIS?

1. Grom cut through Mannoroths weapon, which he's used in thousands wars......

2. One Hit Kill in the stomach

Originally posted by Remindme
1. Grom cut through Mannoroths weapon, which he's used in thousands wars......

2. One Hit Kill in the stomach 1. So? Age does not make it strong.

2. Which could cause lots of blood to gush out.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. So? Age does not make it strong.

2. Which could cause lots of blood to gush out.

1. But he's a front line soldier, and he uses it frequently, he'd have broken it himself by now if it were that weak, he's way stronger than Grom

2. Er......no, he just dies then and there....look

7K9GZSnhdFA

Originally posted by Remindme
1. But he's a front line soldier, and he uses it frequently, he'd have broken it himself by now if it were that weak, he's way stronger than Grom

2. Er......no, he just dies then and there....look

7K9GZSnhdFA Okay, I admit that was PIS. Tho I still say Illidan, Manny is WAY too slow.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Okay, I admit that was PIS. Tho I still say Illidan, Manny is WAY too slow.

Meh, you'd be surprise how fast he can move that blade when he needs to.

We should re-name PIS to PIBS

Plot-Induced-Bull-Shit

I agree, PISB ftw!!!

Prime Illidan the demon slayer > Mannoroth the demon, if you ask me..

Illidan has too much in his advantage.. Sure, Mannoroth is a great warrior and horribly powerful, but among many things, Illidan has dedicated his life to slay demons.. And that isn't just experience.. He got powers that aid him against demons, and his blades..

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
Prime Illidan the demon slayer > Mannoroth the demon, if you ask me..

Illidan has too much in his advantage.. Sure, Mannoroth is a great warrior and horribly powerful, but among many things, Illidan has dedicated his life to slay demons.. And that isn't just experience.. He got powers that aid him against demons, and his blades..

So, how does illidan parry or escape from Mannoroths melee power?

Originally posted by Remindme
So, how does illidan parry or escape from Mannoroths melee power?

he doesnt have to, considering their from a distance, Illidan just have to let loose his magic fury and i still agree with the others, Mannaroth isnt "slow" but he isnt "as" fast as Illidan, no way would he be, Illidan could probably blast to demon from range

Originally posted by Burning thought
he doesnt have to, considering their from a distance, Illidan just have to let loose his magic fury and i still agree with the others, Mannaroth isnt "slow" but he isnt "as" fast as Illidan, no way would he be, Illidan could probably blast to demon from range

I think in running speed he would beat Illidan IMO

to be fair, judging by that video hes not that fast, i mean those orcs could of easily dodged that attack if it had not been for PIS, i mean he was coming from quite a way and wasnt moving incredibly fast, the Orcs were just standing there to be swatted, wheras Illidans speed>>>Orc speed imo, i think once they get up close, Illidan would easily beat mannoroth, Mannaroths weapon would be cumbersome especially taking into account his also odd physique, like a Dracon, lower dragon body, he wouldnt be able to manouver up close to save himself from Illidans attack to his under body.

I think how the fight will go is Mannaroth will charge, before he hits however Illidan could easily let loose his magic, beams of shadow from his hands nad lasers from his eyes, to either "kill" Mannaroth (those blasts are damn powerful) or certianly slow him down, i think to survive Mani would need to put his wings up, his shadow ressitence (hes a demon, he would likely have some high shadow res) he would be able to survive most of the beams but the burning lasers would be a little mor damaging, his fire is prob not as high as shadow but this would put mannaroth on the defensive for Illidan to move in, once Illidan gets up close, i think hell take mani with ease

I love it when people do that

write out a little fight scene so i can watch it go on in my head ^-^

Originally posted by Remindme
I love it when people do that

write out a little fight scene so i can watch it go on in my head ^-^

i love typin out little battles of my fave characters

In short, Illidan got too much firepower for Mannoroth to handle..

Meh, to be honest i never though mannoroth would win, just though it'd be a kick ass battle ^^

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
How was it PIS?

Illidan beaten by Arthas PIS?

Originally posted by Burning thought
he doesnt have to, considering their from a distance, Illidan just have to let loose his magic fury and i still agree with the others, Mannaroth isnt "slow" but he isnt "as" fast as Illidan, no way would he be, Illidan could probably blast to demon from range

Blast Mannaroth who's magical abilities was only second to Archimond Kil'Jaeden and Sargares (possible Azshara.) Sorry but I doesn't see how he would succeed against Manneroth with Magic, His best bet is getting in close and that Too will be extremely dangerous even for Illidan.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Blast Mannaroth who's magical abilities was only second to Archimond Kil'Jaeden and Sargares (possible Azshara.) Sorry but I doesn't see how he would succeed against Manneroth with Magic, His best bet is getting in close and that Too will be extremely dangerous even for Illidan.

you sure of this, magical abilities, Mannaroth seems more of the brutish muscle, also even if his magic is superior, it doesnt make a diffrence on how Illidans magic will affect him, unless he has known to have immunities to fire and shadow. But i disagree, once he gets close, Illidan would win, all you have to do is look at the body and underlegs, its so vulerable to someone as small as Illidan, and as fast with a pair of weapons as powerful as Azzinoths blades, their be perfect for cutting him up.

Originally posted by Burning thought
you sure of this, magical abilities, Mannaroth seems more of the brutish muscle, also even if his magic is superior, it doesnt make a diffrence on how Illidans magic will affect him, unless he has known to have immunities to fire and shadow. But i disagree, once he gets close, Illidan would win, all you have to do is look at the body and underlegs, its so vulerable to someone as small as Illidan, and as fast with a pair of weapons as powerful as Azzinoths blades, their be perfect for cutting him up.

Absolutely, the Pit Lords is no pushover when it comes to magic. You are asking if a Demon is immune to Fire and Darkness sorry me for also what are to suggest that Mannoroths magic wouldn't have a effect on Illidan?

I'm not saying that Illidan wouldn't win in close combat but it will be extremely dangerous for him to get in close, Mannoroth was recruited by Sargares when he Burning Legion was young, his experience in battle is enormous also there is no reason to believe that Illidan wouldn't act foolish (he usually does) and attack Mannoroth straight on, disregarding the PIS with Grom that could be Illidan's ending.

Mannaroth isnt a Demon is he, hes a pit lord...infact are there any true demons in Warcraft, i cant remember true demons from "hell" since such a place does not excist, a demon wouldnt neccerily be immune to fire and shadow magic at all. Also AFAIK Mannaroth has no magic, what magic does he ever do?

regardless of experiance, Mannaroths body itself and his weapon will be cumbersome against illidan, who can move quicker than Mannaroth and manouvre, especially in close combut, hell he could just jump between Mannaroths legs and slice through his stomach.

Pit Lords are demons.

well it doesnt matter anyway, can you prove he is a demon?...not every member of the burning legion is neccerily a demon, the Eredar for example are not demons, i cant remember if he was a demon or not, or where its said the pitlords are demons or not

"And they drank of the demon blood that Mannoroth had providen"

ty Darth, that makes sense, was curious wether he was a true demon or not, anyway....Illidan wins

Originally posted by Burning thought
Mannaroth isnt a Demon is he, hes a pit lord...infact are there any true demons in Warcraft, i cant remember true demons from "hell" since such a place does not excist, a demon wouldnt neccerily be immune to fire and shadow magic at all. Also AFAIK Mannaroth has no magic, what magic does he ever do?

regardless of experiance, Mannaroths body itself and his weapon will be cumbersome against illidan, who can move quicker than Mannaroth and manouvre, especially in close combut, hell he could just jump between Mannaroths legs and slice through his stomach.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/encyclopedia/346.xml
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/encyclopedia/371.xml

Read up my friend "Although most members of the Legion are demons, there are exceptions, as is evidenced by infernals"

ehh in Warcraft a Demon has higher resistance to Fire and Darkness.

Also the Pit Lords have a high resistance (like the doomguards) to magic in all there forms.

Mannoroth did plenty of magic in the Sunwell Trilogy, lashed out and killed a fel hound with a single bolt of energy and in the sunwell trilogy even a full blast from Cenarius didn't manage to do anything but increase a fel Hounds power and Mannoroth killed it with a gesture.

You mean his body that doesn't take a scratch by Thralls hammer powered up with all his power and fury, and yet it didn't leave a lasting mark on his wing. Durability changed a little during that fight.

And from what we know Of Illidan I would say he isn't gonna do that but would more likely try to take him on directly going for his torso.

Originally posted by Utrigita
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/encyclopedia/346.xml
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/encyclopedia/371.xml

Read up my friend "Although most members of the Legion are demons, there are exceptions, as is evidenced by infernals"

ehh in Warcraft a Demon has higher resistance to Fire and Darkness.

Also the Pit Lords have a high resistance (like the doomguards) to magic in all there forms.

Mannoroth did plenty of magic in the Sunwell Trilogy, lashed out and killed a fel hound with a single bolt of energy and in the sunwell trilogy even a full blast from Cenarius didn't manage to do anything but increase a fel Hounds power and Mannoroth killed it with a gesture.

You mean his body that doesn't take a scratch by Thralls hammer powered up with all his power and fury, and yet it didn't leave a lasting mark on his wing. Durability changed a little during that fight.

And from what we know Of Illidan I would say he isn't gonna do that but would more likely try to take him on directly going for his torso.

The hammer of thrall hit the shield on Mannoroth's chest..

Illidan hold firepower far beyond the common demon hunter and elf..

Originally posted by Burning thought
well it doesnt matter anyway, can you prove he is a demon?...not every member of the burning legion is neccerily a demon, the Eredar for example are not demons, i cant remember if he was a demon or not, or where its said the pitlords are demons or not

The Original Eredar isn't demonic correct but the Man'ari eredar is demons where the and the Wrathguard eredar isn't.

also I have showed why Pitlords hell all races of the Burning Legion would be consideret Demons. (discluded non sentient beings)

so their not immune thats for sure, also a blast from one of its superiors compared to another may make all the diffrence, the burning legion commanders have various powers over their own lessers

imo Blades of Azzinoth>>Doomhammer, at least in illidans hands, as you say, the damage shown in the vids are suspect, Groms axe sliced through Mannaroths body in one blow.

empowered blasts from illidan would certain as i said hold back Mannaroth long enough for illidan to get in close, possibly under and kill mannaroth, the big brute wont be able to manoure faster than illidan, and would end up getting sliced up, OR illidan may get atop the guy, stab him in the back.

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
The hammer of thrall hit the shield on Mannoroth's chest..

Illidan hold firepower far beyond the common demon hunter and elf..

No it hit his wing, and it didn't leave a mark.

I know, but I'm questing whether ore not his magical skills will be enough to defeat Mannoroth.

Originally posted by Utrigita
No it hit his wing, and it didn't leave a mark.

I know, but I'm questing whether ore not his magical skills will be enough to defeat Mannoroth. Actually his hammer cut his wing slightly.

Originally posted by Burning thought
so their not immune thats for sure, also a blast from one of its superiors compared to another may make all the diffrence, the burning legion commanders have various powers over their own lessers

imo Blades of Azzinoth>>Doomhammer, at least in illidans hands, as you say, the damage shown in the vids are suspect, Groms axe sliced through Mannaroths body in one blow.

empowered blasts from illidan would certain as i said hold back Mannaroth long enough for illidan to get in close, possibly under and kill mannaroth, the big brute wont be able to manoure faster than illidan, and would end up getting sliced up, OR illidan may get atop the guy, stab him in the back.

I said they showed a high resistance towards magic. There was nothing to indicate that in the incident. He fact remains Mannoroths magic killed a Fel Hound Cenarius with his blast couldn't and Cenarius > Illidan.

I'm not disagreeing that I'm just saying what a attack from the Doomhammer did towards Mannoroth and that will be nada. It is suspect.

If I was Illidan I would as fast as possible get in close for he isn't gonna defeat Mannoroth in a magical Duel that is for sure.

No but Illidan will take a fly if Mannoroth decides to flab those big wings of his. Get on top like he did to Arthas???

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Actually his hammer cut his wing slightly.

I'm going to watch it again.

ime not sure, did it? i mean we see theres cuts in it but wether the hammer did that ime unsure of, but Gorehowl slices through the chest plate AND mannaroth with one hit, so his body cannot be of as great durability as you seem to think Utriga and Illidans speed is >>mannaroths, manourvarbility goes to illidan

the only way Mannaroth can possibly win is if he either gets a lucky hit or if his magic is truly so great he can repel illidan

Originally posted by Utrigita
I said they showed a high resistance towards magic. There was nothing to indicate that in the incident. He fact remains Mannoroths magic killed a Fel Hound Cenarius with his blast couldn't and Cenarius > Illidan.

I'm not disagreeing that I'm just saying what a attack from the Doomhammer did towards Mannoroth and that will be nada. It is suspect.

If I was Illidan I would as fast as possible get in close for he isn't gonna defeat Mannoroth in a magical Duel that is for sure.

No but Illidan will take a fly if Mannoroth decides to flab those big wings of his. Get on top like he did to Arthas???

they have resistence thats for sure, also does Cenarius really>Illidan? Illidan has drank from the well of eternity and has been empowered by many artifacts what has Cenarius got? and dont say "hes a demi-god" its not good enough..

its suspect but then Gorehowl>mannaroths chest plate And his chest. one hitting him

not sure about this part, but regardless of beating him, he can still use magic, knocking and damaging him while he runs in, illidan can still move while doing magic.

i dont understand this part? illidan doesnt have wings in this combat otherwise it would be easy

Originally posted by Burning thought
ime not sure, did it? i mean we see theres cuts in it but wether the hammer did that ime unsure of, but Gorehowl slices through the chest plate AND mannaroth with one hit, so his body cannot be of as great durability as you seem to think Utriga and Illidans speed is >>mannaroths, manourvarbility goes to illidan

the only way Mannaroth can possibly win is if he either gets a lucky hit or if his magic is truly so great he can repel illidan

that is the reason I say it is debateble BT, a full hammer blow charged with the powe of a Shaman thats pissed doesn't phrase him but a "simple" sweep from a orc with a axe went straight through him. If you doesn't find that strange then...

I have never said that Mannoroths manourvarbility was better then Illidans did I

If Illidan get in close then yes its possibly that is Mannoroths only chance, but as said before Illidan at times (nearly always) overestimate his own abilities, and that could be his fall.

I'm positive that Mannoroths abilities in the Arcane is superior to Illidan.

Originally posted by Utrigita
that is the reason I say it is debateble BT, a full hammer blow charged with the powe of a Shaman thats pissed doesn't phrase him but a "simple" sweep from a orc with a axe went straight through him. If you doesn't find that strange then...

I have never said that Mannoroths manourvarbility was better then Illidans did I

If Illidan get in close then yes its possibly that is Mannoroths only chance, but as said before Illidan at times (nearly always) overestimate his own abilities, and that could be his fall.

I'm positive that Mannoroths abilities in the Arcane is superior to Illidan.

indeed its a little strange, but you perhaps take into account many factors, maybe for some reason mannaroths wing is more durable than the rest of him or the unbelivable thought that Gorehowl>Doomhammer..unlikely, possibly the launched blow has less power behind it than Groms strength and rage, Grom was just as pissed off, id say more so than Thrall.

no you didnt, and neither did i, i was simply pointing out you seem to think highly of Mannaroths durability, although his durability is quite unkown considering how suspect the Vid is

only chance indeed, he may do, but Illidans deftly quick indeed, so he may be able to dodge almost any Magtheridon attack, or keep on the move as so he wont be hit, hes no fool.

positive, but on what? Illidan has been empowered by the well of eternity (magic so vast even Sarg wants some and goes to great effort to get it, Illidan drinks some ofi t however) not to menstion has been empowered by many, especially Mannaroths betters, Kil'jaeden and Sarg for example.

Originally posted by Burning thought
they have resistence thats for sure, also does Cenarius really>Illidan? Illidan has drank from the well of eternity and has been empowered by many artifacts what has Cenarius got? and dont say "hes a demi-god" its not good enough..

its suspect but then Gorehowl>mannaroths chest plate And his chest. one hitting him

not sure about this part, but regardless of beating him, he can still use magic, knocking and damaging him while he runs in, illidan can still move while doing magic.

i dont understand this part? illidan doesnt have wings in this combat otherwise it would be easy

What artifacts to be precise and when has he drinked from the well of eternity. Cenarius Killed hundreds of Fel Guards and fel Hunters with his sheer strength when he went all out. Also just shimming through the first book the fel hound that toke a blast from Cenarius had peviously feasted of a tree with magical substance the reason why the Fel Hound toke it my bad later he kills one with a single blast sorry.

That's the suspect part.

I think I have showed that He isn't exactly going to hurt Mannoroth with the magic. And most likely Mannoroth will preform the same spell against Illidan as Archimond used against Malorne, which would leave him quiet in the open wouldn't you think?

But Mannoroth has wings.

Originally posted by Burning thought
indeed its a little strange, but you perhaps take into account many factors, maybe for some reason mannaroths wing is more durable than the rest of him or the unbelivable thought that Gorehowl>Doomhammer..unlikely, possibly the launched blow has less power behind it than Groms strength and rage, Grom was just as pissed off, id say more so than Thrall.

no you didnt, and neither did i, i was simply pointing out you seem to think highly of Mannaroths durability, although his durability is quite unkown considering how suspect the Vid is

only chance indeed, he may do, but Illidans deftly quick indeed, so he may be able to dodge almost any Magtheridon attack, or keep on the move as so he wont be hit, hes no fool.

positive, but on what? Illidan has been empowered by the well of eternity (magic so vast even Sarg wants some and goes to great effort to get it, Illidan drinks some ofi t however) not to menstion has been empowered by many, especially Mannaroths betters, Kil'jaeden and Sarg for example.

But Grom's axe wasn't charged with the fury and the energy of a shaman.

In some way yes I do, but merely because the entire scene was used as a reference for Illidan to cut straight through him because a sweep with groms axe could.

Magtheridon??? No fool all showings of him has proven the contrary, he isn't the brighest star in the sky, and are normally extremely reckless and rushes to conclusions and underestimating his foes.

When did he drink from it? Sarg never empowered him only gave him the ability to see magical energy also we doesn't know to how great and extent Kil'Jaeden empowered him... If any for that matter.

Originally posted by Utrigita
But Grom's axe wasn't charged with the fury and the energy of a shaman.

In some way yes I do, but merely because the entire scene was used as a reference for Illidan to cut straight through him because a sweep with groms axe could.

Magtheridon??? No fool all showings of him has proven the contrary, he isn't the brighest star in the sky, and are normally extremely reckless and rushes to conclusions and underestimating his foes.

When did he drink from it? Sarg never empowered him only gave him the ability to see magical energy also we doesn't know to how great and extent Kil'Jaeden empowered him... If any for that matter.

No, it doesnt matter, i still was the object that slashed striaght through Magtheridon, charged with the fury of a shaman doesnt neccerily mean it was far far more powerful than it is originall or beyond Groms own power, imo his own strength behind his axe is stronger than being charged with shaman energy, not to menstion hammers are blunt weapons, its not neccerily going to do as much physical damage than a axe unless it was thrown with enough power to break through the wing, which ofcourse it did not.

he didnt drink it, i just read the story through, he merely stole it, soz. Although he has many artifacts that powers him, his mystic fire eyes given to him by Sargerus, Kil'jaedens further empowerment and the Orb of kil'jaeden, the skull of Gul'dan. Not to menstion he has vials of the well of eternity. Before any of these events, he is known to be one of the most powerful spell castsers alive when he was just an elf.

Lol Burning Thought, Cenarius would wtf pwn Illidan

pff i would wtf pwn Cenarious with a shovel....damn goof, the truth is he used to be Rudolf, Santas Reindeer before he got sacked then runs around going "ime a demi-God i cant be pwned by chaos Orcs!111oneone!1"

Also DoomHammer > Gorehowl

Originally posted by Burning thought
pff i would wtf pwn Cenarious with a shovel....damn goof, the truth is he used to be Rudolf, Santas Reindeer before he got sacked then runs around going "ime a demi-God i cant be pwned by chaos Orcs!111oneone!1"

Illidan got captured by Maive and elves, it's easier to kill someone than capture.....

thats certainly what id think, but for some reason it causes no damage, so it must be a "his own strength from grom">"Thralls empowered throw", maybe if Thrall ran at Mannaroth and smashed him with it, it would of been much more effective.

Cenarius is above illidan on what grounds btw? what has Cenarius done, i have not read the sunwell trilogy

Originally posted by Burning thought
thats certainly what id think, but for some reason it causes no damage, so it must be a "his own strength from grom">"Thralls empowered throw", maybe if Thrall ran at Mannaroth and smashed him with it, it would of been much more effective.

Cenarius is above illidan on what grounds btw? what has Cenarius done, i have not read the sunwell trilogy

Grom >>> Thrall

But death of Mannoroth is PIBS


His mother is Elune, is that not enough?

His father is Malorne, the Stag with all power over nature, which Cenarius inherited

Originally posted by Burning thought
No, it doesnt matter, i still was the object that slashed striaght through Magtheridon, charged with the fury of a shaman doesnt neccerily mean it was far far more powerful than it is originall or beyond Groms own power, imo his own strength behind his axe is stronger than being charged with shaman energy, not to menstion hammers are blunt weapons, its not neccerily going to do as much physical damage than a axe unless it was thrown with enough power to break through the wing, which ofcourse it did not.

he didnt drink it, i just read the story through, he merely stole it, soz. Although he has many artifacts that powers him, his mystic fire eyes given to him by Sargerus, Kil'jaedens further empowerment and the Orb of kil'jaeden, the skull of Gul'dan. Not to menstion he has vials of the well of eternity. Before any of these events, he is known to be one of the most powerful spell castsers alive when he was just an elf.

If it didn't have any effect charging it would you then be kind enough to tell me why he did charge it??? No it didn't break through the wing because it abviously couldn't, but a axe can cut straight through the a breast plate and his skin put a Hammer charged with Thralls power (that hurted Archimond) cannot

Yep he did Now you are asking for proof about Cenarius > Illidan how about giving me some proof of Illidan having gained a upgrade from Kil'Jaeden other then having gained the orb. Also the Vials that he filled was used to create a new Well of Eternity so it wasn't a lasting upgrade. Sarg was and the Skull but that's about it, unless you can find proof that Kil'Jaeden actually empowered him.

not at all is it not enough....if hes done nothing at all amazing hes nothing on illidan, his power is over nature alone afaik as well, wheras illidan has incredible capabilities over many magics, fire, shadow, all other magic elves know of due to his mastery. Oddly he only uses shadow and flame for some reason in the games however, yet all elves mostly have connection to nature and incredible arcane magics. And Illidan is suggested to be one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful to excist of them.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Cenarius is above illidan on what grounds btw? what has Cenarius done, i have not read the sunwell trilogy

He singlehanded defeated hundreds of Fel Guards and Fel Hounds. With his own physical might and look above, I concure his blast can easily kill a normal Fel Hound.

Originally posted by Burning thought
not at all is it not enough....if hes done nothing at all amazing hes nothing on illidan, his power is over nature alone afaik as well, wheras illidan has incredible capabilities over many magics, fire, shadow, all other magic elves know of due to his mastery. Oddly he only uses shadow and flame for some reason in the games however, yet all elves mostly have connection to nature and incredible arcane magics. And Illidan is suggested to be one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful to excist of them.

Illidan was the most powerful after the sundering thats correct.

Also Cenarius could draw on the same energies as the night elfs but he choosed not to because of him knowing that magic is chaotic by nature and corrupting for the soul hence his reason for not knowing it.

But you are suggesting that a being that went toe to toe with Archimond for just a few minutes could be defeated by Illidan how was trembling with fear of the thought on Kil'Jaeden fighting him.

Originally posted by Burning thought
not at all is it not enough....if hes done nothing at all amazing hes nothing on illidan, his power is over nature alone afaik as well, wheras illidan has incredible capabilities over many magics, fire, shadow, all other magic elves know of due to his mastery. Oddly he only uses shadow and flame for some reason in the games however, yet all elves mostly have connection to nature and incredible arcane magics. And Illidan is suggested to be one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful to excist of them. If i explain further i will dub you a know-nothing on the warcrat Universe, now, back down from the Cenarius vs Illidan debate

Originally posted by Remindme
If i explain further i will dub you a know-nothing on the warcrat Universe, now, back down from the Cenarius vs Illidan debate

you mean Mannoroth vs Illidan

Originally posted by Utrigita
If it didn't have any effect charging it would you then be kind enough to tell me why he did charge it??? No it didn't break through the wing because it abviously couldn't, but a axe can cut straight through the a breast plate and his skin put a Hammer charged with Thralls power (that hurted Archimond) cannot

Yep he did Now you are asking for proof about Cenarius > Illidan how about giving me some proof of Illidan having gained a upgrade from Kil'Jaeden other then having gained the orb. Also the Vials that he filled was used to create a new Well of Eternity so it wasn't a lasting upgrade. Sarg was and the Skull but that's about it, unless you can find proof that Kil'Jaeden actually empowered him.



I didnt mean to imply charging it didnt add to its effect, it just wasnt granted "far" beyond powers imo, for all we know charging it had only given him the power to launch it with the distance he did so. Regardless gorehowl did cleave through, also what do you mean hurt Archimonde, hurting isnt= to damaging/destroying body but regardless, how can you be so sure he put as much power into his hammer as he did into harming archimonde?

Wow wiki
Illidan was further empowered by the demon and granted the Orb of Kil'jaeden to aid him in this task.

so Kiljaeden, Sarg, his own super magic powers+Skull of Gul'dan...hes been modified hell of a lot, so what the hell has Mannaroth got to back up his magic capacity?

Originally posted by Utrigita
you mean Mannoroth vs Illidan

If it was am ismatch i wouldn't have made it

But any fool who thinks Illidan vs Cenarius is even remotely debatable doesn't know squat

Originally posted by Remindme
If i explain further i will dub you a know-nothing on the warcrat Universe, now, back down from the Cenarius vs Illidan debate

yeh right, a know nothing, thats how i know all these things , i admit i know nothing beyond the games, ive only read like 1 or 2 books and that was a long while ago and i dont think they included most of the major characters we debate. Explain how you think Cenarius magic>>>Illidan so much? with his "nature" only powers shown in the games, he has no great feet in the games and in canonically killed isnt he, by Hellscream, your trying to say Illidan<<<Hellscream? hell no....Illidan has advantages over hellscream in a hundred and one ways

Originally posted by Burning thought
I didnt mean to imply charging it didnt add to its effect, it just wasnt granted "far" beyond powers imo, for all we know charging it had only given him the power to launch it with the distance he did so. Regardless gorehowl did cleave through, also what do you mean hurt Archimonde, hurting isnt= to damaging/destroying body but regardless, how can you be so sure he put as much power into his hammer as he did into harming archimonde?



so Kiljaeden, Sarg, his own super magic powers+Skull of Gul'dan...hes been modified hell of a lot, so what the hell has Mannaroth got to back up his magic capacity?

No the scene shows a big flash of light coming when the hammer hits Mannoroth so it had a effect to charge it.

I would assume so since Thrall was pissed in both instances.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8TS_S4Si6o

but do you know how much Kil'Jaeden empowered him just kidding I know that Kil'Jaeden empowered him but you are forgetting that Sarg never increased his power only made his sight better.

Being second only to the mentioned three (possibly four) before. That's backing him up quiet good, there is also no reason to believe that any of the mentioned would charge him to such a degree that he would get powerful enough to challenge the leading members of the burning Legion. Also even with the enchantments prior to Kil'Jaeden then he was just powerful enough to kill Tichondrious, who is below Mannoroth by a considerable margin.

Originally posted by Burning thought
yeh right, a know nothing, thats how i know all these things , i admit i know nothing beyond the games, ive only read like 1 or 2 books and that was a long while ago and i dont think they included most of the major characters we debate. Explain how you think Cenarius magic>>>Illidan so much? with his "nature" only powers shown in the games, he has no great feet in the games and in canonically killed isnt he, by Fel orcs

Cenarius's only poor display was being killed by demonically empowered orcs.....wait that doesn't sound so bad. Illidan would also have died in that situation also.

Illidan however, was captured by Maive twice, begs for forgiveness to someone who Cenarius is capable of fighting head to head and gets beat by Arthas.....

If you want to debate this, make a thread, but if you do prepare to be humiliated

Originally posted by Burning thought
yeh right, a know nothing, thats how i know all these things , i admit i know nothing beyond the games, ive only read like 1 or 2 books and that was a long while ago and i dont think they included most of the major characters we debate. Explain how you think Cenarius magic>>>Illidan so much? with his "nature" only powers shown in the games, he has no great feet in the games and in canonically killed isnt he, by Hellscream, your trying to say Illidan<<<Hellscream? hell no....Illidan has advantages over hellscream in a hundred and one ways

Killed by Chaos infused Orcs, also if I remember correct then the Nature Magic apparently > Arcane since Illidan was easily entangled by Malfurion.

Originally posted by Utrigita
No the scene shows a big flash of light coming when the hammer hits Mannoroth so it had a effect to charge it.

I would assume so since Thrall was pissed in both instances.

but do you know how much Kil'Jaeden empowered him just kidding I know that Kil'Jaeden empowered him but you are forgetting that Sarg never increased his power only made his sight better.

Being second only to the mentioned three (possibly four) before. That's backing him up quiet good, there is also no reason to believe that any of the mentioned would charge him to such a degree that he would get powerful enough to challenge the leading members of the burning Legion. Also even with the enchantments prior to Kil'Jaeden then he was just powerful enough to kill Tichondrious, who is below Mannoroth by a considerable margin.

yes but being pissed doesnt mean he called the same forces, ime surprised he harmed Archimonde, i bet he must have called upon a greater or a diffrent power to harm Archimonde because his hammer blow doesnt neccerily mean he used the same power nor does his anger, does he throw his hammer at Archi as well? sounds queer to me.

he empowered him, enough said on that matter. Also sarg, i think he increased his power, he gave him the eyes its true, but he also gained the magic infused tatoos on his body, surely you cant belive Sargerus did this to level up his "tatoo" profession to go and show off to his m8s

being second only, thats his rank, legion commander but as Archiomnde says he can kill Mannaroth easily, and those below Mannaroth are not neccerily weaker than him by too many margins.

WoWwiki, Skull of Guldan
The battle for control of the Skull came with a heavy price and the artifact's powers changed him. Transformed into a demon, Illidan wrapped himself in shadow and utterly decimated Tichondrius and his forces

seems like Illidan did it easily, Tichondrius AND his forces, decimated, remember hes never tried this power on a being beyond Tichondrius, and he destroyed Tichondrius and his forces easily so i think your not giving him as much respect as he deserves when you say "only" defeated tichondrius, he didnt just defeat him, he completly decimated him and his forces.

Originally posted by Remindme
Cenarius's only poor display was being killed by demonically empowered orcs.....wait that doesn't sound so bad. Illidan would also have died in that situation also.

Illidan however, was captured by Maive twice, begs for forgiveness to someone who Cenarius is capable of fighting head to head and gets beat by Arthas.....

If you want to debate this, make a thread, but if you do prepare to be humiliated

hmm fair enough, maybe you can "enlighten me" on cenarius

Illidan died? yeh, when he takes flight into the clouds and sends shadow and flame down upon them? pff.....

a lot of PIS, the thing is we know Illidan is capable of breaking out of these situations ,same with what utriga says, Malfurions roots, what about his fire powers? he can bath his body in flames as if in a non-pis situation he wouldnt just burst forth in flame and be free, yet Cenarians been killed by Hellscream, both on-ground beings, Cenarian with "great nature powers" gets destroyed by the crazed orc, theres no way Grom could take on Illidan.

Originally posted by Burning thought
yes but being pissed doesnt mean he called the same forces, ime surprised he harmed Archimonde, i bet he must have called upon a greater or a diffrent power to harm Archimonde because his hammer blow doesnt neccerily mean he used the same power nor does his anger, does he throw his hammer at Archi as well? sounds queer to me.

he empowered him, enough said on that matter. Also sarg, i think he increased his power, he gave him the eyes its true, but he also gained the magic infused tatoos on his body, surely you cant belive Sargerus did this to level up his "tatoo" profession to go and show off to his m8s

being second only, thats his rank, legion commander but as Archiomnde says he can kill Mannaroth easily, and those below Mannaroth are not neccerily weaker than him by too many margins.



seems like Illidan did it easily, Tichondrius AND his forces, decimated, remember hes never tried this power on a being beyond Tichondrius, and he destroyed Tichondrius and his forces easily so i think your not giving him as much respect as he deserves when you say "only" defeated tichondrius, he didnt just defeat him, he completly decimated him and his forces.

Actually we know he did both was the ligtning element. Because in the Ingame Thrall doesn't throw his hammer

And how does we know that those tattoos did anything but further enchant the eyes No I doesn't but we didn't see a increase in his power in the books afterwards.

please tell me where Archimond said he could easily kill Mannoroth I have overlooked that fact.

I said he prior wasn't powerful enough to kill Tichondrios but the Skull made so he could and again Tichondrios is a good potion of level beneath Mannoroth els Tichondrios if being more powerful would have been sent through the portal instead of Hakkar the Houndmaster.

Keep in mind that Sargares sended them through in order, Hakkar<Mannoroth<Archimond.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Actually we know he did both was the ligtning element. Because in the Ingame Thrall doesn't throw his hammer

And how does we know that those tattoos did anything but further enchant the eyes No I doesn't but we didn't see a increase in his power in the books afterwards.

please tell me where Archimond said he could easily kill Mannoroth I have overlooked that fact.

I said he prior wasn't powerful enough to kill Tichondrios but the Skull made so he could and again Tichondrios is a good potion of level beneath Mannoroth els Tichondrios if being more powerful would have been sent through the portal instead of Hakkar the Houndmaster.

Keep in mind that Sargares sended them through in order, Hakkar<Mannoroth<Archimond.

in the ingame? ime confused, in-game throws his hammer all the time, its his basic attack

your right we dont...but it sounds odd that they would increase the power of the eyes, all the eyes do is allow him to see magic, hmm, sounds a lame ability from Sarg himself.

he does indeed say it in Warcraft 3 reign of chaos, he says it when the buildings are being destroyed and Mannaroth is threatening a dreadlord and Archimonde teleports in and threatens Mannaroth saying mannaroth is like a ant or maggot in comparison to him or something like that, although i doubt i can prove it since looking i dont think anyones video that part of the game.

Originally posted by Burning thought
in the ingame? ime confused, in-game throws his hammer all the time, its his basic attack

your right we dont...but it sounds odd that they would increase the power of the eyes, all the eyes do is allow him to see magic, hmm, sounds a lame ability from Sarg himself.

he does indeed say it in Warcraft 3 reign of chaos, he says it when the buildings are being destroyed and Mannaroth is threatening a dreadlord and Archimonde teleports in and threatens Mannaroth saying mannaroth is like a ant or maggot in comparison to him or something like that, although i doubt i can prove it since looking i dont think anyones video that part of the game.

In the ingame he never throws his hammer when he uses the lightning spell does he ??? Also he makes a move with his hammer so a lightning bolt fly from his hammer.

I know but fact remain that he didn't show any significant increase in magica capabilities.

I doesn't remember that at all, I remember him saying something like this.

Mannoroth "the orcs are mine by right and I will chase them where ever they choose to run"

Archimonde Teleports in

Archimonde "And you are mine Mannoroth you will do well to remember that fact we will watch the waver orcs and wait despite there failer they may still proof useful to us."

Originally posted by Utrigita
In the ingame he never throws his hammer when he uses the lightning spell does he ??? Also he makes a move with his hammer so a lightning bolt fly from his hammer.

I know but fact remain that he didn't show any significant increase in magica capabilities.

I doesn't remember that at all, I remember him saying something like this.

Mannoroth "the orcs are mine by right and I will chase them where ever they choose to run"

Archimonde Teleports in

Archimonde "And you are mine Mannoroth you will do well to remember that fact we will watch the waver orcs and wait despite there failer they may still proof useful to us."

correct, thats what is said. But dont you agree Archimonde could kill mannaroth easily, would you think Mannaroth of such a high level as to survive the same attack suc has finger of death that pulls enemies inside out, Archimonde as Darth has said several times has effortlessly with a gesture burst a massive dragon, larger than Mannaroth if ime not mistaken.

Originally posted by Burning thought
correct, thats what is said. But dont you agree Archimonde could kill mannaroth easily, would you think Mannaroth of such a high level as to survive the same attack suc has finger of death that pulls enemies inside out, Archimonde as Darth has said several times has effortlessly with a gesture burst a massive dragon, larger than Mannaroth if ime not mistaken.

I'm not arguing whether ore not Archimonde would kill Mannoroth because IMO there is no discussion needed, Archimonde utterly vaporises Mannoroth.

Originally posted by Utrigita
I'm not arguing whether ore not Archimonde would kill Mannoroth because IMO there is no discussion needed, Archimonde utterly vaporises Mannoroth.

oh i see, i thought you were saying you overlooked Archi easily killing mannaroth as something important and wanted me to prove he could easily kill manni

Originally posted by Burning thought
oh i see, i thought you were saying you overlooked Archi easily killing mannaroth as something important and wanted me to prove he could easily kill manni

Not at all I'm not insane

Archimonde is one of the most powerful entities to have ever walked Azeroth in modern time. To put Mannoroth against him is to put a Tiger against a maggot.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Not at all I'm not insane

Archimonde is one of the most powerful entities to have ever walked Azeroth in modern time. To put Mannoroth against him is to put a Tiger against a maggot.

indeed

but knowing WoW 25 muggy heroes will be bringing down Kil'jaeden in the expansion or some monkeyness

Originally posted by Burning thought
indeed

but knowing WoW 25 muggy heroes will be bringing down Kil'jaeden in the expansion or some monkeyness

They will bring down a unfinished summoned Kil'Jaeden this (I hope) is just a preview Kil'Jaeden will get his own Expansion I think, I mean Illidan got his and Arthas gets his so why not Kil'Jaeden the most powerful of them all.

on another note... They are ****ing the Warcraft up entirely

Originally posted by Utrigita
They will bring down a unfinished summoned Kil'Jaeden this (I hope) is just a preview Kil'Jaeden will get his own Expansion I think, I mean Illidan got his and Arthas gets his so why not Kil'Jaeden the most powerful of them all.

on another note... They are ****ing the Warcraft up entirely

they are, its shameful. I think personally Kil'jaeden may come in a patch, although possibly an expansion, anything to drag their series on

Originally posted by Burning thought
they are, its shameful. I think personally Kil'jaeden may come in a patch, although possibly an expansion, anything to drag their series on

and messing the story more up sadangel

yeh, they shoud leave it all behind, call it uncanon and make warcraft 4

i thought with the skull of Guldan, Illidan was stated stronger than any of Achimondes minios (including Mannoroth)... hes my vote

That is his own statement. Correct.

"I will become more powerful then any of Archimondes Lieutenants ... yes the power should be mine" obviously under the influence of Arthas putting flies into his head.

Originally posted by Burning thought
yeh, they shoud leave it all behind, call it uncanon and make warcraft 4

thumbup

Originally posted by Burning thought
they are, its shameful. I think personally Kil'jaeden may come in a patch, although possibly an expansion, anything to drag their series on

He will..

Well, gameplaywise, Mannoroth would easily pawn Illidan. How many hitpoints is Illidan? below 1000? Well, I saw Mannoroth in 1 downloaded scenario, and believe it or not, HE'S GOT 5000 hitpoints 40-50+ ATTACK!!!

Mannoroth could just simply summon an Infernal or Two and smash Illidan for good...I mean for bad.

Arthas was able to almost kill Illidan, remember?

I go for Mannoroth the Destructor.

Utrigita says:

"That is his own statement. Correct.

"I will become more powerful then any of Archimondes Lieutenants ... yes the power should be mine" obviously under the influence of Arthas putting flies into his head.""

Then that means Arthas (as Death Knight) could actually beat Archimonde or something??

Originally posted by Burning thought
yeh, they shoud leave it all behind, call it uncanon and make warcraft 4

That would be the best thing to happen to Warcraft universe since... uhh.. since.. sliced bread?

As for the fight, I'd say 5/5. After consuming the Skull of Gul'Dan, he had become quite powerful indeed.

Yes, by gameplay mechanics, Mannoroth would indeed pwn Illidan. Although we never got to see Mannoroth in active gameplay; only in cutscenes.

Originally posted by Mannoroth II
Utrigita says:

"That is his own statement. Correct.

"I will become more powerful then any of Archimondes Lieutenants ... yes the power should be mine" obviously under the influence of Arthas putting flies into his head.""

Then that means Arthas (as Death Knight) could actually beat Archimonde or something??

It was more the hole Illidan "I want the power for myself" Which I believe Arthas had mentioned prior, would boast Illidan. So Illidan toke it out of greed and hunger for power. Imo at that point he outleveled Arthas.

Mannoroth will stomp Illidan. Illidan is good, but nowhere near good enough to match the power of Mannoroth.

I think that was the conclusion we ended with too more then a year ago.