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Dont get me wrong I like characters like Batman, NightWing and Mister Terrific its nice to see humans taking on superhumans. Im not an expert on DC but really it seems like a load of PIS. In DC you seem to have characters that are considrebaly more powerful than Marvel for example Superman isnt just ****ing strong hes really fast as well. People like Cap can take on bricks, even if he cant KO them he can dodge their blows distract the opponent and leave the brick open so somebody like Thor can take him out. Why do the JLA need Batman anyway?

Prep? Wait a minute doest superman have superhuman intelligence cant he for example read and memorise lots of information in a very short time (correct me if im wrong). If he can do that couldnt he then think of loads of scenerios that Batman could think of before Batman preps him. Does Superman have the fortress of solitude and does he have access to its tech?

Why are people saying that Batman has dodged Supermans punches without mentioning prep when Superman has clearly shown that hes is much faster then him? Whats the point in having Nighwing when you have the Flash?

I dont even understand how Batman was able to go H2H with current KK without prep. Didnt KK punch a guy who weighed a hundred tons through a wall? So how does Batman block his punches without a protected suit? Even the current KK has shown he has much more skill than Batman how the hell did he manage to go H2H with him....prep or PIS?

In short Batman does not seem to be any KK or Mantis but some people on this forum seem to be portraying him like that it also seems to me realistcaly in Gotham Batman is king but soon as hes with the JLA theres no point in him being there.

Just because Superman can think faster than Batman doesn't really mean anything since he hasn't shown us that he is more clever or better at him with prep time. Just because he thinks very fast doesn't mean he would be better than Batman with prep.
Besides, it's not like Superman uses his intelligence a lot in fighting somebody. He mostly relies on his powers, unlike Batman.
And as a matter of fact many people on this forum underestimate Batman due to his "human" etiquete

Reading Grant Morrison's first storyarc(Martians) on JLA should give you a better understanding about Batman. He is understimated and overlooked for being just human but in the end is Batman who saves the day. Superman is intelligent but Batman is on another level. He got no powers to rely on and as such has to be constantly thinking ahead and finding ways to beat these "supers". Batman is possibly the most dangerous of them all(see Tower of Babel storyline).

Originally posted by Alfheim
Dont get me wrong I like characters like Batman, NightWing and Mister Terrific its nice to see humans taking on superhumans. Im not an expert on DC but really it seems like a load of PIS. In DC you seem to have characters that are considrebaly more powerful than Marvel for example Superman isnt just ****ing strong hes really fast as well. People like Cap can take on bricks, even if he cant KO them he can dodge their blows distract the opponent and leave the brick open so somebody like Thor can take him out. Why do the JLA need Batman anyway?

Prep? Wait a minute doest superman have superhuman intelligence cant he for example read and memorise lots of information in a very short time (correct me if im wrong). If he can do that couldnt he then think of loads of scenerios that Batman could think of before Batman preps him. Does Superman have the fortress of solitude and does he have access to its tech?

Why are people saying that Batman has dodged Supermans punches without mentioning prep when Superman has clearly shown that hes is much faster then him? Whats the point in having Nighwing when you have the Flash?

I dont even understand how Batman was able to go H2H with current KK without prep. Didnt KK punch a guy who weighed a hundred tons through a wall? So how does Batman block his punches without a protected suit? Even the current KK has shown he has much more skill than Batman how the hell did he manage to go H2H with him....prep or PIS?

In short Batman does not seem to be any KK or Mantis but some people on this forum seem to be portraying him like that it also seems to me realistcaly in Gotham Batman is king but soon as hes with the JLA theres no point in him being there. Batman has kung fu.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Just because Superman can think faster than Batman doesn't really mean anything since he hasn't shown us that he is more clever or better at him with prep time. Just because he thinks very fast doesn't mean he would be better than Batman with prep.

No he hasnt but its not realistic is it? Batman keeps making a fool out of you with prep you have superhuman intelligence and the fortress of solitude and you keep allowing Batman to outprep you? Looking at Supermans powerset he should never be outprepped by Bruce. If you can think faster you could think of loads of different things before your even attacked.


Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

Besides, it's not like Superman uses his intelligence a lot in fighting somebody. He mostly relies on his powers, unlike Batman.
And as a matter of fact many people on this forum underestimate Batman due to his "human" etiquete

Well how does Batman dodge Supermans punches without prep when Superman is shown to be clearly faster?

Originally posted by Juntai
Batman has kung fu.

It's not Batmans pure intelligence that he's on the JLA, he gives the gods a real human perspective.
It's also his deductive abilities they cherish most.
You can be intelligent all you want, but Batman understands the criminal more than anyone, even the criminals.

Originally posted by Alfheim
No he hasnt but its not realistic is it? Batman keeps making a fool out of you with prep you have superhuman intelligence and the fortress of solitude and you keep allowing Batman to outprep you? Looking at Supermans powerset he should never be outprepped by Bruce. If you can think faster you could think of loads of different things before your even attacked.




Well how does Batman dodge Supermans punches without prep when Superman is shown to be clearly faster? Are you thinking of a specific instance?
Last time Batman encountered Superman, he couldn't even turn around before he needed a full body cast.

Is this some kind of a thread to demean Batman?
Why was Cap in space fighting Thanos alongside Thor and Surfer and everyone?

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Reading Grant Morrison's first storyarc(Martians) on JLA should give you a better understanding about Batman. He is understimated and overlooked for being just human but in the end is Batman who saves the day. Superman is intelligent but Batman is on another level. He got no powers to rely on and as such has to be constantly thinking ahead and finding ways to beat these "supers". Batman is possibly the most dangerous of them all(see Tower of Babel storyline).

How does Batman manage to be on another level when Superman has superhuman intelligence and kryptonian tech....it doesnt make any sense.

Originally posted by Juntai
It's not Batmans pure intelligence that he's on the JLA, he gives the gods a real human perspective.
It's also his deductive abilities they cherish most.
You can be intelligent all you want, but Batman understands the criminal more than anyone, even the criminals.

Bro your not really thinking this through. Superman can evaluate and memorise lots of information in a very short time right? If he can do this he can make up for anything he lacks for example deductive reasoning and he can also learn about criminals and because he thinks faster catch up with Batmans knowledge.

Originally posted by Juntai
Are you thinking of a specific instance?
Last time Batman encountered Superman, he couldn't even turn around before he needed a full body cast.

Whos "he", who coulndt turn around?

Originally posted by Juntai
Is this some kind of a thread to demean Batman?
Why was Cap in space fighting Thanos alongside Thor and Surfer and everyone?

No it is not. I dont think Cap could beat Superman either....gezzz. What so I think Cap can beat Thanos is that what your saying?

Originally posted by Alfheim
How does Batman manage to be on another level when Superman has superhuman intelligence and kryptonian tech....it doesnt make any sense.



Bro your not really thinking this through. Superman can evaluate and memorise lots of information in a very short time right? If he can do this he can make up for anything he lacks for example deductive reasoning and he can also learn about criminals and because he thinks faster catch up with Batmans knowledge.



Whos "he", who coulndt turn around?



No it is not. I dont think Cap could beat Superman either....gezzz. What so I think Cap can beat Thanos is that what your saying? No, you're not thinking it through. Taking a crash course on criminal investigation might land Clark a job with a CSI team, but he's still lightyears away from Batman.

You can give Super Soldier Serum to a crack head in New York, but he won't be Captain America. Thor might let someone hold his hammer, but it doesn't mean they're the Odinson.

Batman got stomped up in about a panel.

Originally posted by Alfheim
No it is not. I dont think Cap could beat Superman either....gezzz. What so I think Cap can beat Thanos is that what your saying? I'm not sure where you're going with this.
You're asking why a team of godlike beings need Batman, I gave you an instance of another character in the same predicament.
Shit happens.

Originally posted by Juntai
Batman has kung fu.

He watched every episode of it.

Originally posted by Juntai
No, you're not thinking it through. Taking a crash course on criminal investigation might land Clark a job with a CSI team, but he's still lightyears away from Batman.

Er no I am. Im not just thinking about memorising information with really fast thinking you could learn dedutctive thinking you would even be able to predict what a persons going to do be they could do it. This is what you seem to be forgetting.


Originally posted by Juntai

You can give Super Soldier Serum to a crack head in New York, but he won't be Captain America.

Thats different if he learns everything that Cap knows isnt it?


Originally posted by Juntai

Thor might let someone hold his hammer, but it doesn't mean they're the Odinson.

It different if he obtains everything that Thor has

Originally posted by Juntai


Batman got stomped up in about a panel.

There you go then. Batmasn not dodging Superman without prep.

Originally posted by Juntai
I'm not sure where you're going with this.
You're asking why a team of godlike beings need Batman, I gave you an instance of another character in the same predicament.
Shit happens.

I explained this earlier

Originally posted by Alfheim
In DC you seem to have characters that are considrebaly more powerful than Marvel for example Superman isnt just ****ing strong hes really fast as well. People like Cap can take on bricks, even if he cant KO them he can dodge their blows distract the opponent and leave the brick open so somebody like Thor can take him out. Why do the JLA need Batman anyway?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Er no I am. Im not just thinking about memorising information with really fast thinking you could learn dedutctive thinking you would even be able to predict what a persons going to do be they could do it. This is what you seem to be forgetting.




Thats different if he learns everything that Cap knows isnt it?




It different if he obtains everything that Thor has



There you go then. Batmasn not dodging Superman without prep. I'm not sure if it's still in effect these days, but in the early 90s, I believe anything Superman learned/read at Superspeed, he only retained for a given timeframe and then he just forgot. It was kind of a plot device.

But now post Infinite Crisis, he says his brain is working better and faster than it ever has before. So who knows.

Originally posted by Juntai
I'm not sure if it's still in effect these days, but in the early 90s, I believe anything Superman learned/read at Superspeed, he only retained for a given timeframe and then he just forgot. It was kind of a plot device.

If thats the case that would explain it.

Originally posted by Juntai

But now post Infinite Crisis, he says his brain is working better and faster than it ever has before. So who knows.

Ah.... really that makes Batman redundant then. Superman has everything that Bruce has but better. I like Batman but they should make him like KK....I guess....or maybe not I like street levelers sometimes I just like a good MA fight with no powers.

Originally posted by Alfheim

I explained this earlier That doesn't explain why he would be needed to fight Thanos with the infinity gauntlet. The explanation doesn't cover what I was saying, and it was only one example of many across all comic platforms.

The truth is, it's a wonder why most of the JLA need the rest of the JLA at all.
Superman has comics were he does more before lunch than the JLA do in a 3 year arc.

All of them are Superpowerful and don't really need a group, when considering the BIG 7 at least.

They come together because each respectively the very best. Batman is the very best representative of a human crimefighter, and his trackrecord proves it.

And most of all, because of the sales of having the biggest names around all in one book. Having Batman in a book probably tripples it's market share.

Why have Hawkman there? When Superman has him beat in every area?

Originally posted by llagrok
Why have Hawkman there? When Superman has him beat in every area?


llagrok....think about it please.

Just because Superman has a faster memory doesn't really mean anything, because that does not equal more experience in dealing with certain situations. Like I said, Superman mostly uses his powers in fights and doesn't rely on his brain as much as Batman does.Being a human, Batman needs to think ahead of his adversary because he can't just go and face guys like Superman head on. You seem to think that just because Superman can percieve and remember things faster than Batman means he is better with prep which is wrong.



It depends on the conditions of their fight and such. Besides, Batman uses his brain to predict movements and such. Even so, Batman stated in of their encounters while he had a kryptonite ring that Batman can just squish him into the cement using his superspeed.



It most likely is.

Batman also has a huge advantage he constantly uses. Most criminals don't know he is a just a man. Most fear him for his reputation as something superhuman or demonic. Like, what has been said, you need to read the tower of Babel storyline and it will show you why Batman's on the team, or the time the white martians took down all the JLA except Batman and Batman still took them down

Plus people tend to forget, Batman can be a nasty person. Whilst this sounds quaint or diluted, it means he will go for shots that will really hurt someone as opposed to just restraining them. Superman will tie someone up to stop them. Batman will break their arm and then tie them up

or you can just acknowledge the fact that Batman is a high selling DC character and, for the most part, the JLA is composed of.... you guessed it, high selling DC characters. Whoever the writer is simply needs to come up with a reason why Batman would be useful when you have people like the Martian Manhunter (hyper intellegent, also a detective), Superman (incredibly intellegent, a reporter who knows... well, a lot), Steel (downright brilliant), the Flash (yet another member of law enforcement, who is literally capable of thinking of every possible scenario in nanoseconds)...

There's a reason why Batman in his own title is an entirely different character in JLA. in his own title, a small group of thugs can take him down. in JLA, he can defeat a small army of super fast, super strong, shape shifting telepaths. And why is that? Because there needs to be a reason to include one of your highest selling characters in your "super" team book.

Honestly, this thread is kinda acting like Batman's a real person.

supeman actually just patronizes batman into thinking he's smarter. but this is a guy who has a photographinc memnory and total recall, a guy who have visited dozens of alien worlds and been exposed to all thier sciences and medicine, a guy who can just go ask his "dad"(holographic Jor-el) to help him out if he gets stuck on a tough math problem this is the same guy who told somebody that the reason he hasnt cured cancer is becuase humanity would expect too much from him, and worship him as a god and he doesnt want that.

as far as detecting...this guy is a walking talking forensic unit, sure bats might break out all his fancy gadgets, and deductive reasoning, but supes got him cold. its like that cosmic joke where all the higher ups played along with retconned beyonder to make him feel special

Originally posted by Juntai
That doesn't explain why he would be needed to fight Thanos with the infinity gauntlet.

Im not refering to fighting people who have powers that make them omnipotent. If you are going to use that example all the heroes could be redundant.

Originally posted by Juntai

The explanation doesn't cover what I was saying, and it was only one example of many across all comic platforms.

What other examples fighting the White Martians who have superhuman strength and speed. Batman was able to think of something that characters with superhuman intelligence coulndt think of. Lets face it hes only there for the sales. Realistically looking at his powereset people wouldnt even need his help.


Originally posted by Juntai
The truth is, it's a wonder why most of the JLA need the rest of the JLA at all.
Superman has comics were he does more before lunch than the JLA do in a 3 year arc.

All of them are Superpowerful and don't really need a group, when considering the BIG 7 at least.

Yeah because Superman woulndt need help fighting Darkseid.

Originally posted by Juntai

They come together because each respectively the very best. Batman is the very best representative of a human crimefighter, and his trackrecord proves it.

That changes the fact that Batmans redundant.

Originally posted by Juntai

And most of all, because of the sales of having the biggest names around all in one book. Having Batman in a book probably tripples it's market share.

Exactly. Apart from that it doesnt make any sense.



Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Just because Superman has a faster memory doesn't really mean anything, because that does not equal more experience in dealing with certain situations.

Sorry you still dont get it. Superhuman intellignce can compensate for experience and can become a form of pre-cognition. Its not just about memorising its about then evaluating and expanding on the information that is given. Superman could know more than Batman in much less time and do more with it, anything that Batman could think of Superman would think of


Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

Like I said, Superman mostly uses his powers in fights and doesn't rely on his brain as much as Batman does.Being a human, Batman needs to think ahead of his adversary because he can't just go and face guys like Superman head on.

I dunno man if you had superhuman intelligence and you kept getting your assed kicked by a peak human what would you do? Yeah thats right.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

You seem to think that just because Superman can percieve and remember things faster than Batman means he is better with prep which is wrong.

Hes not better with prep but he should be looking at Supermans powerset.


Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

It depends on the conditions of their fight and such.

Yeah prep.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

Besides, Batman uses his brain to predict movements and such. Even so,

Just because you can predict something doesnt mean your going to be fast enough to stop it from happening.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

Batman stated in of their encounters while he had a kryptonite ring that Batman can just squish him into the cement using his superspeed.

Soi what does that prove even with prep Superman could have stomped him.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

It most likely is.

Yeah? Well your wrong should I find the quote where I stated that Batman is my second favourite character after Captain America. Im just unbiased thats all.




Originally posted by willRules
Batman also has a huge advantage he constantly uses. Most criminals don't know he is a just a man. Most fear him for his reputation as something superhuman or demonic. Like, what has been said, you need to read the tower of Babel storyline and it will show you why Batman's on the team, or the time the white martians took down all the JLA except Batman and Batman still took them down

Yes i heard about that you have memebers with superhuman intelligence but somehow Batman was able to figure out what they couldnt. Sounds like bad writing to me.

Originally posted by willRules

Plus people tend to forget, Batman can be a nasty person. Whilst this sounds quaint or diluted, it means he will go for shots that will really hurt someone as opposed to just restraining them. Superman will tie someone up to stop them. Batman will break their arm and then tie them up

Yup but if you had superhuman intelligence and some peak human kept kicking your ass you'd do something about it.


Originally posted by tjcoady
or you can just acknowledge the fact that Batman is a high selling DC character and, for the most part, the JLA is composed of.... you guessed it, high selling DC characters. Whoever the writer is simply needs to come up with a reason why Batman would be useful when you have people like the Martian Manhunter (hyper intellegent, also a detective), Superman (incredibly intellegent, a reporter who knows... well, a lot), Steel (downright brilliant), the Flash (yet another member of law enforcement, who is literally capable of thinking of every possible scenario in nanoseconds)...


Originally posted by tjcoady

Honestly, this thread is kinda acting like Batman's a real person.

Yeah I know but its just not believable that Batman has any use. Comics are fiction but you want some realism. I like Batman but I think that it could be argued that maybe they should give him KKs powerset instead of giving him a jobber aura.

Originally posted by Alfheim


I dont even understand how Batman was able to go H2H with current KK without prep. Didnt KK punch a guy who weighed a hundred tons through a wall? So how does Batman block his punches without a protected suit? Even the current KK has shown he has much more skill than Batman how the hell did he manage to go H2H with him....prep or PIS?

In short Batman does not seem to be any KK or Mantis but some people on this forum seem to be portraying him like that it also seems to me realistcaly in Gotham Batman is king but soon as hes with the JLA theres no point in him being there.

He recognizes the martial arts. He spotted and analyze every move by KK. Any martial art master can detect and recognize any style of figthing. Plus, he has enhance his knowledge thanks to working with gods. He also learns from them.

Now your point of Batman in JLA. He brings the human factor where gods reign. Because of it we helps bring in characters like Ollie and Red Arrow into that team.

You know the concept of a human out smarting a powerful being is not something new. You can find it in nearly all mythologies. This is why the DC mythology out weights Marvel pound by pound.

This is obviously a spite thread but I feel good proving Batman haters wrong so I'll continue anyway



So you're practically repeating all that you've already said. I already pointed out why Superman isn't necesarilly Batman's superior despite being able to think and memorize faster. I'm not going to repeat it again just because you can't understand it.



So this is your counter argument ?

Really, if you are incapable of responding intelligently don't respond at all because you're wasting both of our time.



Again .. is this supposed to be a counter-argument ?



confused

Who said anything about prep ?

Does the word "conditions" mean prep ?

Perhaps in your mind.



It doesn't really take Einstein to know that.
But in case you haven't checked Batman is a master martial artist and has been working with Superman for a long time, knowing how he fights so combining this 2 it isn't really hard to understand certain things. Not to mention that it's not like Superman goes all out on Batman when they fight because if he would do so he would beat him.

Even when he was mind controlled Superman still didn't squish Batman despite the fact that Batman said he could do so.



Too bad that in the instance I was talking about Batman didn't have prep



That's one of the most lame and old excuses on the net.

It's similar to

"DARKSIDE IS ONE OF MY FAV. CHARACTERS IN COMICS AND I HATE HULK FOR BEING SO STRONG BUT HE STILL SQUISHES DARKSEID EASILY !!!"

Don't buy it.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
He recognizes the martial arts. He spotted and analyze every move by KK. Any martial art master can detect and recognize any style of figthing. Plus, he has enhance his knowledge thanks to working with gods. He also learns from them.

Thats not a realistic explanation. Can Batman send somebody who weighs 100 tons through a walll? Can Batman use his technique to put billions of tons of snow in the air because if he cant its still PIS or prep. Even if he has learned from Gods his feats are not as good as KK and therefore should not be blocking his punches, if he can block KK he should be able to block Superman.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf

Now your point of Batman in JLA. He brings the human factor where gods reign. Because of it we helps bring in characters like Ollie and Red Arrow into that team.

You know the concept of a human out smarting a powerful being is not something new. You can find it in nearly all mythologies. This is why the DC mythology out weights Marvel pound by pound.

Yeah im aware of that but thats why we have PIS on this forum its to try and have realistic debates.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
This is obviously a spite thread but I feel good proving Batman haters wrong so I'll continue anyway


Originally posted by Alfheim
My fav character is actually Captain America but close behind is Bats. I kinda see Bats as somone on Caps level physically with gadgets.

I do however belive that Bats is probably the best comic character ever made there is alot of depth to him.

I could go on forever, of course the main inspiring thing about Batman is that he is human

Are you finished.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

So you're practically repeating all that you've already said. I already pointed out why Superman isn't necesarilly Batman's superior despite being able to think and memorize faster. I'm not going to repeat it again just because you can't understand it.


Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

So this is your counter argument ?

Really, if you are incapable of responding intelligently don't respond at all because you're wasting both of our time.



Again .. is this supposed to be a counter-argument ?



confused

Who said anything about prep ?

Does the word "conditions" mean prep ?

Perhaps in your mind.



It doesn't really take Einstein to know that.
But in case you haven't checked Batman is a master martial artist and has been working with Superman for a long time, knowing how he fights so combining this 2 it isn't really hard to understand certain things. Not to mention that it's not like Superman goes all out on Batman when they fight because if he would do so he would beat him.

Even when he was mind controlled Superman still didn't squish Batman despite the fact that Batman said he could do so.



Too bad that in the instance I was talking about Batman didn't have prep



That's one of the most lame and old excuses on the net.

It's similar to

"DARKSIDE IS ONE OF MY FAV. CHARACTERS IN COMICS AND I HATE HULK FOR BEING SO STRONG BUT HE STILL SQUISHES DARKSEID EASILY !!!"

Don't buy it.

Dont think im going to bother with the rest because I can see where this is heading. Just one question using a kryponite ring isnt prep? Where did he get the ring, why did he have it on him....I could be wrong but it looks like prep to me.

Really now, it's pretty obvious that this is a spite thread.



Since he didn't actually plan to fight Superman, no, not really.

the ONLY reason Batman is on the JLA is so they have a grouchy emo dude around to b1tch everyone

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Really now, it's pretty obvious that this is a spite thread.



Argumentative **** alert! Argumentative **** alert! I just put the quote down that shows that hes one of my favourite characters and he still thinks its a spite thread!

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

Since he didn't actually plan to fight Superman, no, not really.

Yeah he just happened to have a kryponite ring on him. I dunno maybe Batman forsaw the possibility that at some point in the future they might fight. Hey I thought one of Batmans principles is always be prepared. Hell in the Dark Knight Returns he states he was planning to fight superman.

So you consider Batman's utility belt as being prep time ?

Or him being taken by surprise by Superman count as prep ?



I should stop this discussion right now .

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr


I should stop this discussion right now .

Yeah. Goodbye.

What an original *****-fest. .

Originally posted by Alfheim
How does Batman manage to be on another level when Superman has superhuman intelligence and kryptonian tech....it doesnt make any sense.


Juntai's answer should explain why Bats is in another level than Supes, intelligence wise.

Originally posted by Juntai
It's not Batmans pure intelligence that he's on the JLA, he gives the gods a real human perspective.
It's also his deductive abilities they cherish most.
You can be intelligent all you want, but Batman understands the criminal more than anyone, even the criminals.

Originally posted by Soljer
What an original *****-fest. .

Typical Soljer. Suddenly forgets all the times hes bitched on this forum then wants to criticise other people...incredible. I wanna be perfect just like him.



Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Juntai's answer should explain why Bats is in another level than Supes, intelligence wise.

No it doesnt.

Originally posted by Alfheim


Sorry you still dont get it. Superhuman intellignce can compensate for experience and can become a form of pre-cognition. Its not just about memorising its about then evaluating and expanding on the information that is given. Superman could know more than Batman in much less time and do more with it, anything that Batman could think of Superman would think of






Originally posted by tjcoady
the Flash (yet another member of law enforcement, who is literally capable of thinking of every possible scenario in nanoseconds)...

Originally posted by Alfheim
Typical Soljer. Suddenly forgets all the times hes bitched on this forum then wants to criticise other people...incredible. I wanna be perfect just like him.

Nah. It'd just be nice if you came up with something new to whine and moan about rather than rehashing something that's been brought up a hundred times this past year alone.

Originally posted by Soljer
Nah. It'd just be nice if you came up with something new to whine and moan about rather than rehashing something that's been brought up a hundred times this past year alone.

Goodbye Soljer. Dont like, it dont comment.

Unfortunately for you, my friend, that's not quite the way freedom of speech works.

In fact, we're encouraged to comment on what we don't like. Dissenters are often branded as heroes in history.

Originally posted by Soljer
Unfortunately for you, my friend, that's not quite the way freedom of speech works.

In fact, we're encouraged to comment on what we don't like. Dissenters are often branded as heroes in history.

Yeah sure.

Originally posted by Soljer
What an original *****-fest. .

Originally posted by llagrok


Well ok you never ***** about anything either.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Thats not a realistic explanation.

What?! These are comic books what realism do you want?




With a large mechanical weapon made by Wayne Tech...who knows? There is a possibility.



That's never happen. Why would it happen now?

Originally posted by Alfheim

Even if he has learned from Gods his feats are not as good as KK and therefore should not be blocking his punches, if he can block KK he should be able to block Superman.


That's your opinion. Also KK and Superman are not in the same level. Take into consideration that neither Batman nor KK would try to kill each other. Only subdue their opponent.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
That's never happen. Why would it happen now?

....and you dont get the point?


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf

That's your opinion.

Yeah and the point of this forum is to discuss.


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf

Also KK and Superman are not in the same level.

Well one of the current KKs was able to beat up a superman villain twice and was able to dodge some of Supergirls punches....

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf

Take into consideration that neither Batman nor KK would try to kill each other. Only subdue their opponent.

So KK wouldnt make his blows so powerful that he would make it incapable for Batman to block it.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well ok you never ***** about anything either.

I don't make unoriginal, lame threads about it

Originally posted by llagrok
I don't make unoriginal, lame threads about it

*sigh* Nice talking to you llagrok.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yes i heard about that you have memebers with superhuman intelligence but somehow Batman was able to figure out what they couldnt. Sounds like bad writing to me.


Or Maybe Batman's really that good. I mean he's no Captain America But he's good enough to be on the top DC super team regardless of your feelings on it

Plus have you even read Tower of Babel? You are pretty quick to call the storyline bad writing but not read it sounds a bit bias to me

Originally posted by Soljer
What an original *****-fest. .

Nitpicker...nvm.

I mean if you want to argue this about Batman, why not argue this about every JLA member who isn't superman?

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/5807/superman8yk8.jpg

Deep Blue can process millions of scenarios a second in chess, but it's still only about as good as our best grandmasters, and was inferior to them until recently.

Originally posted by Alfheim

Yeah he just happened to have a kryponite ring on him. I dunno maybe Batman forsaw the possibility that at some point in the future they might fight. Hey I thought one of Batmans principles is always be prepared. Hell in the Dark Knight Returns he states he was planning to fight superman. He ALWAYS has it on him. Superman gave it to him for that very purpose.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah because Superman woulndt need help fighting Darkseid.

I dunno man if you had superhuman intelligence and you kept getting your assed kicked by a peak human what would you do? Yeah thats right.
Is that Darkseid comment supposed to be smart? Because Superman doesn't need help fight Darkseid. He's been on the upper hand of their last several exchanges, clearly showing he doesn't need help.

What times are you speaking of with Superman getting his ass kicked by Batman..? You talking about HUSH, when he was under Mind Control and Batman still couldn't put him down after using every trick in the book and having every aspect of the battle in his advantage and had to rely on Superman overcoming the mind control?

Or are you talking about Sacrifice, where Superman came at him too fast to react to and left his broken body on the JLA Watchtower console?

Perhaps you're speaking of the ELSEWORLDS title, The Dark Knight Returns. Which is not in the main continuity.

Which time exactly?

You clearly made this thread to demean Batman and/or Superman and just to argue pointlessly. I can't really see a shred of relivence in anything you've posted here, but showed you know nothing about any of the characters involved in the discussion and just made this to bait people into your bullshit.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff144/KMCSuperman/RacerX-52A4H2-p19.jpg

I guess the thread is aptly named however, "What's the point?" because you don't seem to have one.

Talk about spam

Originally posted by Juntai
I guess the thread is aptly named however, "What's the point?" because you don't seem to have one.

Originally posted by llagrok
Talk about spam I'd rather talk about your mom.

*flutters eyelashes*

Originally posted by Juntai
He ALWAYS has it on him. Superman gave it to him for that very purpose.

Not after 52

Originally posted by Soljer
What an original *****-fest. .
Originally posted by Soljer
What an original *****-fest. .
Originally posted by Soljer
What an original *****-fest. .
Originally posted by Soljer
What an original *****-fest. .
Originally posted by Soljer
What an original *****-fest. .
yes

Originally posted by llagrok
Not after 52

why what happened?

I know during Infinite Crisis, Earth 2 Superman fired his heat vision at it when Batsy was wearing it. Did he destroy it?

Originally posted by willRules
why what happened?

I know during Infinite Crisis, Earth 2 Superman fired his heat vision at it when Batsy was wearing it. Did he destroy it?

Yeah.

Originally posted by willRules
Or Maybe Batman's really that good. I mean he's no Captain America But he's good enough to be on the top DC super team regardless of your feelings on it :yes

Not with people who greatly outpower him.

Originally posted by willRules

Plus have you even read Tower of Babel? You are pretty quick to call the storyline bad writing but not read it sounds a bit bias to me

No I havent but thats why I stated at the beginning that im not an expert and used words such as "correct me if im wrong"....now I will try and read it eventually but this is a discussion thread and I cant see logically how he can fit in that world. So my stance is cant say for sure until I read it but im skeptical. Also im not baised Batmans my second favourite character I even put down quotes for crying out loud.


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Nitpicker...nvm.

I dunno man I thought I made clear and concise points I made the effort but im getting "Nitpicker" as a response. Well you could actually make an effort and respond to my post...or not its up to you. *shrug*

Originally posted by willRules
I mean if you want to argue this about Batman, why not argue this about every JLA member who isn't superman?




What like Flash who has comparable speed and intelligence. Or Martian Manhunter? My point is looking at Batmans powerset there are other superheroes who have what he has and more and looking at his powerset he seems more useful than he actually should be.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Deep Blue can process millions of scenarios a second in chess, but it's still only about as good as our best grandmasters, and was inferior to them until recently.

This is my point. If somebody can process millions of scenarios in a second dont you think he should be much superior to a chess grandmaster?


Originally posted by Juntai
You clearly made this thread to demean Batman and/or Superman and just to argue pointlessly. I can't really see a shred of relivence in anything you've posted here, but showed you know nothing about any of the characters involved in the discussion and just made this to bait people into your bullshit.

Right heres what I want you to do for me. This is what I think, I think you have a problem not me. I think debating with you is going to be a complete waste of time, the reason being that you have obvoulsy decided that everything I say doesnt make any sense not because it doesnt because you dont want it to make any sense. So explain these two points.

1. Why am I trying to bait people and spite Batman when I have already stated and shown the quotes that Batman is my second favourite character? I also post in the Batman forum and not to demean the character. Heres two possibilities.

a) Im lying.

OR

b) Im actually telling the truth. I like Batman and as stated earlier I like Batman comics but it doesnt make sense him being in this setting. Evidence: My quote and posts in Batman forum.

2. Please explain clearly concisley how you came to the conclusion im trying to demean Superman when im talking about how superior he is. Thats makes no sense at all and your telling me im talking bullshit.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Not with people who greatly outpower him.



No I havent but thats why I stated at the beginning that im not an expert and used words such as "correct me if im wrong"....now I will try and read it eventually but this is a discussion thread and I cant see logically how he can fit in that world. So my stance is cant say for sure until I read it but im skeptical. Also im not baised Batmans my second favourite character I even put down quotes for crying out loud.




I dunno man I thought I made clear and concise points I made the effort but im getting "Nitpicker" as a response. Well you could actually make an effort and respond to my post...or not its up to you. *shrug*




What like Flash who has comparable speed and intelligence. Or Martian Manhunter? My point is looking at Batmans powerset there are other superheroes who have what he has and more and looking at his powerset he seems more useful than he actually should be.



This is my point. If somebody can process millions of scenarios in a second dont you think he should be much superior to a chess grandmaster?




Right heres what I want you to do for me. This is what I think, I think you have a problem not me. I think debating with you is going to be a complete waste of time, the reason being that you have obvoulsy decided that everything I say doesnt make any sense not because it doesnt because you dont want it to make any sense. So explain these two points.

1. Why am I trying to bait people and spite Batman when I have already stated and shown the quotes that Batman is my second favourite character? I also post in the Batman forum and not to demean the character. Heres two possibilities.

a) Im lying.

OR

b) Im actually telling the truth. I like Batman and as stated earlier I like Batman comics but it doesnt make sense him being in this setting. Evidence: My quote and posts in Batman forum.

2. Please explain clearly concisley how you came to the conclusion im trying to demean Superman when im talking about how superior he is. Thats makes no sense at all and your telling me im talking bullshit.

Yes because Captain America is so useful.

Well, you're SAYING you like the Batman character, and he's your second favorite, but you still haven't mentioned what storylines you're talking about when Batman kicks Superman's ass.
You didn't realise the fact that Batman has always carried the kryptonite ring, and it's not a prep situation as you surmised.
You've flat out mentioned not even reading over key storylines that show Batman's importance to the team, which is the topic at hand.
It's becoming increasingly clear that you probably don't read Batman or JLA at all. Which makes me feel you aren't really at liberty to decide if he's worthy of the team, because you don't understand the contributions he makes/has made.
That, and your thread and debate have progessed nowhere, because you don't have a real point. You're just baiting people in here to argue your bullshit, so you have something to talk about with no real points or relivence to bring to the table, because you don't know the stories or the characters.

Originally posted by Switch 07
Yes because Captain America is so useful.

Originally posted by Alfheim
People like Cap can take on bricks, even if he cant KO them he can dodge their blows distract the opponent and leave the brick open so somebody like Thor can take him out. Why do the JLA need Batman anyway?

Plus hes useful because of his startegy. From what I can remember Cap was the strategist in the Avengers and did not have people who could think as fast as Superman and Flash on the rooster...this may have change on ocassion but not as far as I know. Cap can be very useful when fightiung superhuman, but it seems when Batman was fighting the white martians he was phgysically outclassed and manged to think of things that other people could have thought of iMO.

Other people might have been able to think of the methods he used to take them out, but Batman was the only one who after his short time knowing about them, realised what he was really fighting and was able to capitolize on it. The others were already taken out by this time. Once agian, you not knowing the story at hand, otherwise you would have known that..

Like I said, all you've shown in this thread is complete ignorance about the Justice League, Superman and especially Batman and the roles he plays on the team. People have been pointing you to stories for the how and the why, and examples and everything, but you've obviously not read them previously, or even taken the initiative to learn what the hell you're talking about. You're speaking from a perspective of complete ignorance.
And you won't be convicing anyone Batman is your second favorite character, when you haven't read his comics, or the multitude JLA comics that highlight his importance to the team.

Originally posted by Juntai
Well, you're SAYING you like the Batman character, and he's your second favorite,


Well ok if I was going to provide evidence that I actually wasnt trying to bait Batman what evidence could I use? Dont you think that maybe a quote where I state in black and white could be considered to be a good piece of evidence? Now lets turn this around if you quoted where you said in black and white that Batman was your second favourite character and people kept saying your trying to demean the character? how would you feel? Would you feel maybe perhaps that nobody is going to actually listen to anything you say regardless of what you do?


Originally posted by Juntai

but you still haven't mentioned what storylines you're talking about when Batman kicks Superman's ass.
You didn't realise the fact that Batman has always carried the kryptonite ring, and it's not a prep situation as you surmised.
You've flat out mentioned not even reading over key storylines that show Batman's importance to the team, which is the topic at hand.
It's becoming increasingly clear that you probably don't read Batman or JLA at all. Which makes me feel you aren't really at liberty to decide if he's worthy of the team, because you don't understand the contributions he makes/has made.
That, and your thread and debate have progessed nowhere, because you don't have a real point. You're just baiting people in here to argue your bullshit, so you have something to talk about with no real points or relivence to bring to the table, because you don't know the stories or the characters.

I'll respond to this when you explain how you came to the conclusion that im trying to demean Supermans characters when im stating hes is superior to Batman in every way.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Plus hes useful because of his startegy. From what I can remember Cap was the strategist in the Avengers and did not have people who could think as fast as Superman and Flash on the rooster...this may have change on ocassion but not as far as I know. Cap can be very useful when fightiung superhuman, but it seems when Batman was fighting the white martians he was phgysically outclassed and manged to think of things that other people could have thought of iMO.

Yeah and Batman was in the first book when they faced The Avengers villain.

Superman may be smart but he doesn't use it.

I am pretty smart but never use it, thats why on teams or something like that decides and thinks of strategies.

Quit your bitching. He has his importance.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I'll respond to this when you explain how you came to the conclusion that im trying to demean Supermans characters when im stating hes is superior to Batman in every way. I won't be trailing off on a tangent needlessly to support your need to argue bullshit endlessly. It's clear you don't read Batman or JLA, leaving you in little to no position to debate here. Which is why most of your posts in this thread are full of shit. People have given explanations, details and storylines that highlight exactly the topic of this thread, while you've done nothing but tip-toe around the topics trying to get people to argue with you.

That is all.

Originally posted by Juntai
I won't be trailing off on a tangent needlessly to support your need to argue bullshit endlessly. It's clear you don't read Batman or JLA, leaving you in little to no position to debate here. Which is why most of your posts in this thread are full of shit. People have given explanations, details and storylines while you've done nothing but tip-toe around the topics.

That is all. Most? Understatement.

Originally posted by Juntai
I won't be trailing off on a tangent needlessly to support your need to argue bullshit endlessly. It's clear you don't read Batman or JLA, leaving you in little to no position to debate here. Which is why most of your posts in this thread are full of shit. People have given explanations, details and storylines that highlight exactly the topic of this thread, while you've done nothing but tip-toe around the topics.

That is all.

Thats not true. I stated from the beginning im not an expert on DC. I also stated that im open minded and I cant say for sure until I read the issues.

Regardless of wether ive read the issue or not I can use common sense to apply that characters like Superman and Flash would make Batman redundant.

What about this poster hes read JLA. Why isnt he full of shit as well?


Originally posted by tjcoady
or you can just acknowledge the fact that Batman is a high selling DC character and, for the most part, the JLA is composed of.... you guessed it, high selling DC characters. Whoever the writer is simply needs to come up with a reason why Batman would be useful when you have people like the Martian Manhunter (hyper intellegent, also a detective), Superman (incredibly intellegent, a reporter who knows... well, a lot), Steel (downright brilliant), the Flash (yet another member of law enforcement, who is literally capable of thinking of every possible scenario in nanoseconds)...



Common sense dictates that if you have characters that have superhuman intelligence aand superhuman stats they make a peak human character redundant.

Telling me that im trying to deman Batmn clearly shows you just want to insult me when ive provided evidence, that was completely unjustified.

Furthermore if your going to actually tell me that im trying to demean Superman what this proves is that you dont even know when you are being illogical therefore you have no business telling me that.

Ive said Superman is superior to Batman in every way therefore im trying to demean Superman.....and then you want to talk about me.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Thats not true. I stated from the beginning im not an expert on DC. I also stated that im open minded and I cant say for sure until I read the issues.

Regardless of wether ive read the issue or not I can use common sense to apply that characters like Superman and Flash would make Batman redundant.

What about this poster hes read JLA. Why isnt he full of shit as well?




Common sense dictates that if you have characters that have superhuman intelligence aand superhuman stats they make a peak human character redundant.

Telling me that im trying to deman Batmn clearly shows you just want to insult me when ive provided evidence, that was completely unjustified.

Furthermore if your going to actually tell me that im trying to demean Superman what this proves is that you dont even know when you are being illogical therefore you have no business telling me that. Bla bla bla. Tangents and bullshit.

You're right, you aren't an expert, because you don't read any of the material.

He's not full of shit, because he didn't say why Batman was redudant, he told you why he isn't. Because the writer often creates situations specifically to make Batman as useful to the plot as any other character. I guess you missed that part.

I already told you I'm not sure where you're going, or what your point is.
Originally posted by Juntai
I guess the thread is aptly named however, "What's the point?" because you don't seem to have one.
I just know you're completely ignorant towards the topic, but just keep rambling on while bringing nothing of any importance or validity to the topic here, because you don't know the characters or their stories. Making everything you say on the topic irrelivent and useless, which is why you keep running off on tangents.

Originally posted by Juntai
Bla bla bla. Tangents and bullshit.

You're right, you aren't an expert, because you don't read any of the material.

I have quite a few Batman comics actually and some with Superman in them clearly showing that Superman is far superior to Bats.


Originally posted by Juntai

He's not full of shit, because he didn't say why Batman was redudant, he told you why he isn't. Because the writer often creates situations specifically to make Batman as useful to the plot as any other character. I guess you missed that part.

Er no I think you mised the point. The reason why hes useful is because of the writers...otherise he wouldnt be. You said it yourself the writers CREATE situations.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I have quite a few Batman comics actually and some with Superman in them clearly showing that Superman is far superior to Bats.




Er no I think you mised the point. The reason why hes useful is because of the writers...otherise he wouldnt be. You said it yourself the writers CREATE situations. Writers create everything in comics books. Like people have pointed out, you could make the same point for nearly anyone on the team. What's the point of Flash, when Superman can go fast too? Or Wonder Woman, when Superman can do all of her abilities at a higher level, plus some? Writers have make EVERY Member of a team useful. This isn't a crutch for Batman. The stories prove his usefullness, and you're still full of shit, now get off of it.

Originally posted by Juntai
Writers create everything in comics books. Like people have pointed out, you could make the same point for nearly anyone on the team. What's the point of Flash, when Superman can go fast too?

Right so there arent any supervillains that could give Superman trouble where he might needs Flash's help. Yeah im sure there are. Furthermore when fighting a supervillain with Supemans stats and intellignece what use would Batman be? I would ask Flash for help MM.

Originally posted by Juntai

Or Wonder Woman, when Superman can do all of her abilities at a higher level, plus some? Writers have make EVERY Member of a team useful. This isn't a crutch for Batman. The stories prove his usefullness, and you're still full of shit, now get off of it.

That still partially proves my point. Lets put it this way there may be some situations where he might be useful but looking at the powerset of some superheroes Batman would probably not be used as often as he is. Why use Bats when you have oher members who can do whet he can do and more.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Right so there arent any supervillains that could give Superman trouble where he might needs Flash's help. Yeah im sure there are. Furthermore when fighting a supervillain with Supemans stats and intellignece what use would Batman be? I would ask Flash for help MM.



That still partially proves my point. Lets put it this way there may be some situations where he might be useful but looking at the powerset of some superheroes Batman would probably not be used as often as he is. Why use Bats when you have oher members who can do whet he can do and more.

Yeah I know that makes no sense at all.

Well anyway in second thoughts I think what people are saying is right. Yes you can argue that Superman has Batman beat in every area and doesnt need Batman for anything. I think the same could apply to Flash and MM possibly.

The whole problem with the argeument is that there seem to be a signifcant number of characters including Batman who the other heroes dont need. If we are going to say Batman is not needed what about the others as well?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well anyway in second thoughts I think what people are saying is right. Yes you can argue that Superman has Batman beat in every area and doesnt need Batman for anything. I think the same could apply to Flash and MM possibly.

The whole problem with the argeument is that there seem to be a signifcant number of characters including Batman who the other heroes dont need. If we are going to say Batman is not needed what about the others as well? Spectre will punish the guilty and murderous when he catches up with them anyways, so why have heros at all? He makes them all pointless.
/sarcasm


The pont is, the JLA often enough run into situations they value Batman's membership for. Yes, a story has to be created for this, but it isn't any more of a writer crutch for a Batman than it is for any of them having a similar situation where he contribues. Batman isn't redundant to the team and there's a multitude of issues to prove it.

It's laughable at best you're thinking Batman is redundant while trying to rationize to us why Captain America hanging out with guys like Thor, Hulk, Ironman, Hercules and others because he can contribute something as redundant as slowing someone down until a big hitter comes. Batman brings far more to his team, with his intelligence, deductive abilities, leadership ability, planning, resources and technology.

Originally posted by Juntai
Spectre will punish the guilty and murderous when he catches up with them anyways, so why have heros at all? He makes them all pointless.
/sarcasm


The pont is, the JLA often enough run into situations they value Batman's membership for. Yes, a story has to be created for this, but it isn't any more of a writer crutch for a Batman than it is for any of them having a similar situation where he contribues. Batman isn't redundant to the team and there's a multitude of issues to prove it.

It's laughable at best you're thinking Batman is redundant while trying to rationize to us why Captain America hanging out with guys like Thor, Hulk, Ironman, Hercules and others because he can contribute something as redundant as slowing someone down until a big hitter comes. Batman brings far more to his team, with his intelligence, deductive abilities, leadership ability, planning, resources and technology.

Didnt I just say you guys were right? I also explained why you guys were right. It just doesnt just apply to Batman but it applies to other characters as well, some characters may have superhuman strength and speed but batmans resources and intelligence could make him more useful. Therefore Batman being redundant also appiles to other members of the JLA.

My point about Cap was that eventhough people like Thor and Hercules maybe more powerful than him there not so powerful that they make Cap redundant. If Cap foguht Hercules he could at least make it diffult for him to hit and maybe use the environment to beat him if Batman fought Superman he would just be squased and Superman beats Bats in every aspect not just strength and speed but intelligence as well, but the point has been made that this can apply to the other JLA members to.

I might have been a little too harsh, and appologize for that, but I meant what I was saying then, and won't take it back as far as the content. I just got annoyed how I felt your arguement had no point, and was so generalised a complaint that it could to any character in any situation, but you aimed this thread directly at Batman and Superman. Which is why myself and others felt it was some kind of thread to slander them. We tried to give you examples of Batman proving his usefulness in context when we discussed storyarcs. But you pressed on anyways, ignoring the proof, and drug this out for several pages on why you felt Batman was only cool because they write him cool, and useless if they didn't... And if a threat powerful enough to smack up Thor, Ironman, Hulk and Hercules, that Cap can save the day with his superpowers and kung fu and how that is more useful than Batman he is.

Originally posted by Juntai
I might have been a little too harsh, and appologize for that, but I meant what I was saying then, and won't take it back as far as the content.

Sorry I was going to reply to this but I had to shoot down to the shops. To be fair its not like you dont have a point.

Originally posted by Juntai

I just got annoyed how I felt your arguement had no point, and was so generalised a complaint that it could to any character in any situation, but you aimed this thread directly at Batman and Superman. Which is why myself and others felt it was some kind of thread to slander them.


Well look if you want to say I need to read more JLA, correct. As I stated from the begiining I was no DC expert and admitted to being ignorant. If you want to say that Superman doesnt just make Batman redundant others as well but there was no justification for telling me that I was doing it to spite Batman you dont know me personally, I provided evidence and if your prefectly honest its makes no sense to say that I wanted to spite Superman. The whole reason why I wanted you to adress these points is because you attacked me personally and I wnted to deal with these points before dealing with the others. I would have gone onto say that I dindt know Superman gave him the ring. I also felt that I at least had some good points but they were not being adressed and I felt that the accusations of spite where a manifestation of this.

Originally posted by Juntai

Which is why myself and others felt it was some kind of thread to slander them. We tried to give you examples of Batman proving his usefulness in context when we discussed storyarcs. But you pressed on anyways, ignoring the proof, and drug this out for several pages on why you felt Batman was only cool because they write him cool, and useless if they didn'

Well this is where my argument has flaw. If Superman is going to make Batman redundant that could go for the others but whats getting me is that it still doesnt make any sense to me how Batman can be more intelligent than Superman I admitted that I had not read the stories but there was no explanation given. Yes this could apply to other members but the fact still seems to be that Superman does make Batman redundant and not just Superman. It seems to me that also if you gave the Flash Batmans resources he would do much more with it but this is becoming evident that this not the case with all characters.

Originally posted by Juntai

... And if a threat powerful enough to smack up Thor, Ironman, Hulk and Hercules, that Cap can save the day with his superpowers and kung fu and how that is more useful than Batman he is.

No I think this is a different kettle of fish. I got the impression that in the Batman respect thread there was an implication thats lots of superheroes wpould beat Batman if he didnt prep, this is not the case with Cap of course there are members that could beat Cap but you could list quite a few Avengers that Cap could either beat or at least give them trouble as I stated Cap may not be able to KO Hercules but he could at least dodge his punches for along while could Batman do that with supes, flash, mm or aquaman?

One of the points I was making if you have a villain which has Supermans powerset or Flashes powerset theres seem to be no way in which you Batman would be useful. Ok I need to read the JLA but an explanation would be cool. Yes I did not read the incident where the white martians where beating up the JLA but somebody who had read the story stated that if Batman had actually tried to fight he would have got stomped and this kinda upset me because you rarely see incident in the Avengers were Cap acnnot contribute to a fight even with powerful members.

Originally posted by willRules
why what happened?

I know during Infinite Crisis, Earth 2 Superman fired his heat vision at it when Batsy was wearing it. Did he destroy it?

Yes, however it hasn't been clear by DC whether Clark ever gave Bruce another ring. So if Supes goes rampage....Batman won't stop him.

(yeah, I know it sounds pretty ironic)

Originally posted by Alfheim
Sorry I was going to reply to this but I had to shoot down to the shops. To be fair its not like you dont have a point.



Well look if you want to say I need to read more JLA, correct. As I stated from the begiining I was no DC expert and admitted to being ignorant. If you want to say that Superman doesnt just make Batman redundant others as well but there was no justification for telling me that I was doing it to spite Batman you dont know me personally, I provided evidence and if your prefectly honest its makes no sense to say that I wanted to spite Superman. The whole reason why I wanted you to adress these points is because you attacked me personally and I wnted to deal with these points before dealing with the others. I would have gone onto say that I dindt know Superman gave him the ring. I also felt that I at least had some good points but they were not being adressed and I felt that the accusations of spite where a manifestation of this.



Well this is where my argument has flaw. If Superman is going to make Batman redundant that could go for the others but whats getting me is that it still doesnt make any sense to me how Batman can be more intelligent than Superman I admitted that I had not read the stories but there was no explanation given. Yes this could apply to other members but the fact still seems to be that Superman does make Batman redundant and not just Superman. It seems to me that also if you gave the Flash Batmans resources he would do much more with it but this is becoming evident that this not the case with all characters.



No I think this is a different kettle of fish. I got the impression that in the Batman respect thread there was an implication thats lots of superheroes wpould beat Batman if he didnt prep, this is not the case with Cap of course there are members that could beat Cap but you could list quite a few Avengers that Cap could either beat or at least give them trouble as I stated Cap may not be able to KO Hercules but he could at least dodge his punches for along while could Batman do that with supes, flash, mm or aquaman?

One of the points I was making if you have a villain which has Supermans powerset or Flashes powerset theres seem to be no way in which you Batman would be useful. Ok I need to read the JLA but an explanation would be cool. Yes I did not read the incident where the white martians where beating up the JLA but somebody who had read the story stated that if Batman had actually tried to fight he would have got stomped and this kinda upset me because you rarely see incident in the Avengers were Cap acnnot contribute to a fight even with powerful members.

WTF Bats takes Cap.

Originally posted by Switch 07
WTF Bats takes Cap.

He could do, but im not talking about Batman in Marvel im talking about Batman in DC, Batman taking DC heroes out without prep. The point I was trying to make is that Cap in marvel is different, yeah you can argue that Bats intelligence is useful but Cap in marvel can also beat up quite a few Avengers or give them trouble without prep. Yes at the end of the day I could be wrong and feel free to correct me.

If Cap can beat them then so can Bats. Maybe on the JLA team he might not be the best but if Cap were there he would be even less useful

Originally posted by Alfheim
Dont get me wrong I like characters like Batman, NightWing and Mister Terrific its nice to see humans taking on superhumans. Im not an expert on DC but really it seems like a load of PIS. In DC you seem to have characters that are considrebaly more powerful than Marvel for example Superman isnt just ****ing strong hes really fast as well. People like Cap can take on bricks, even if he cant KO them he can dodge their blows distract the opponent and leave the brick open so somebody like Thor can take him out. Why do the JLA need Batman anyway?

Prep? Wait a minute doest superman have superhuman intelligence cant he for example read and memorise lots of information in a very short time (correct me if im wrong). If he can do that couldnt he then think of loads of scenerios that Batman could think of before Batman preps him. Does Superman have the fortress of solitude and does he have access to its tech?

Why are people saying that Batman has dodged Supermans punches without mentioning prep when Superman has clearly shown that hes is much faster then him? Whats the point in having Nighwing when you have the Flash?

I dont even understand how Batman was able to go H2H with current KK without prep. Didnt KK punch a guy who weighed a hundred tons through a wall? So how does Batman block his punches without a protected suit? Even the current KK has shown he has much more skill than Batman how the hell did he manage to go H2H with him....prep or PIS?

In short Batman does not seem to be any KK or Mantis but some people on this forum seem to be portraying him like that it also seems to me realistcaly in Gotham Batman is king but soon as hes with the JLA theres no point in him being there. It's a comic so get over it. duriroll


You have an opinion and that's fine but don't try to make other people "see" things your way so you can feel good. It's not the forum's job to prove your opinion right or wrong. Complaining about a non-powered character is ass-clownery when you consider that the powered characters: can fly, breathe under water, manipulate energy/matter, use magic, cling to walls, create/manipulate weather, turn big, strong and green, are on fire, have power rings, become living metal, shoot energy beams from their eyes, stretch like elastic, move FTL, etc. The fact is your argument and logic is as senseless as comics. If you don't like a comic then don't read it. Cripes, if everybody had a hissy fit over what occurs in a comic then the Comics Section would be nothing but a crybaby emo fest. durcry2

Originally posted by Switch 07
If Cap can beat them then so can Bats.

Thats true and im not arguing against that.

Originally posted by Switch 07

Maybe on the JLA team he might not be the best

I get the impression cap would get stomped in DC world as well


Originally posted by Switch 07

but if Cap were there he would be even less useful

Well I think hes at least as smart as Bats in terms of strategy but not rescources. Well I think Cap could be compared to DS and DS can give superheroes in DC grief. Argh **** I cant say for sure but DC characters seem to be really really ****ing powerful some of them have got insane power feats.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Thats true and im not arguing against that.



I get the impression cap would get stomped in DC world as well




Well I think hes at least as smart as Bats in terms of strategy but not rescources. Well I think Cap could be compared to DS and DS can give superheroes in DC grief. Argh **** I cant say for sure but DC characters seem to be really really ****ing powerful some of them have got insane power feats.

Not as smart as Bats no but better leader.

Apart from that it was: .

Originally posted by Badabing
It's a comic so get over it. duriroll


You have an opinion and that's fine


but don't try to make other people "see" things your way so you can feel good.


It's not the forum's job to prove your opinion right or wrong. Complaining about a non-powered character is ass-clownery when you consider that the powered characters: can fly, breathe under water, manipulate energy/matter, use magic, cling to walls, create/manipulate weather, turn big, strong and green, are on fire, have power rings, become living metal, shoot energy beams from their eyes, stretch like elastic, move FTL, etc. The fact is your argument and logic is as senseless as comics. If you don't like a comic then don't read it.

Cripes, if everybody had a hissy fit over what occurs in a comic then the Comics Section would be nothing but a crybaby emo fest. durcry2

Like you said.

Originally posted by Badabing

You have an opinion and that's fine



Originally posted by Badabing

but don't try to make other people "see" things your way so you can feel good.

Its a discussion forum, thats what im doing. Nothing wrong with what im doing at all im not calling anybody names or insulting them.


Originally posted by Badabing

Cripes, if everybody had a hissy fit over what occurs in a comic then the Comics Section would be nothing but a crybaby emo fest. durcry2


Um im not, your assuming I am. Like you said

Originally posted by Badabing

You have an opinion and that's fine

This hasn't had actual discussion for a few pages now...just argument.