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do you prayer daily?

i sometimes prayer but its always to help me. e.g- one time i prayed to god for it to snow enough so that id miss school. it worked though it could have been a coincidence (it was already snowing but not heavily). Do prayers like these work?

what do you prayer for or about?

also, is prayer the proper word?


so basically tell me you views about praying.

Well, I more talk in my head. Not a formal prayer though. And usually am just saying "Thankies."

Originally posted by the welsh one
do you prayer daily?

i sometimes prayer but its always to help me. e.g- one time i prayed to god for it to snow enough so that id miss school. it worked though it could have been a coincidence (it was already snowing but not heavily). Do prayers like these work?

what do you prayer for or about?

also, is prayer the proper word?


so basically tell me you views about praying.

What do you mean by the pray?

I do Gongyo in the morning and evening of every day. There are a set of prays that are a part of Gongyo.

Maybe prayer is not the correct word. Maybe communication is??

hu, goonie goo goo??

Originally posted by debbiejo
Maybe prayer is not the correct word. Maybe communication is??

I've made fairly complex requests, coupled with a complex sacrifice...the prayer was granted...all was going well...i went back on my word...everything that had been going well and looked sorted fell apart...I asked for one more chance...and it fixed again...

kind of too easy aint it

Originally posted by anaconda
hu, goonie goo goo??

Can't read it?

Originally posted by anaconda
kind of too easy aint it

It wasn't for me.

Prayer is not intended to affect reality itself. It is a personal moment between man and god. An attempt to communicate with your spiritual source.

Absolutely, its all about relationship with God...thats what he wants from people.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Absolutely, its all about relationship with God...thats what he wants from people.

But God does not want.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But God does not want.

Says who?

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Says who?

If God wants, then God is not complete. If God is not complete, then God is not perfect. If God is not perfect, then God is not... etc etc

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If God wants, then God is not complete. If God is not complete, then God is not perfect. If God is not perfect, then God is not... etc etc

Are, but your confusing the word want with Want, he doesn't NEED anything. However, that doesn't limit his ability to want his people to do certain things.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Are, but your confusing the word want with Want, he doesn't NEED anything. However, that doesn't limit his ability to want his people to do certain things.

Sorry, if I confused the word want with Want. It all looks the same to me.

no, if even if he doesnt NEED, anything. he cudnt TAKE prayer without atleast DESIRE. and one can not desire for what one already posesses. that wud mean there are still things{gained by prayer to god} that god does not completely posess and can have MORE OF.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If God wants, then God is not complete. If God is not complete, then God is not perfect. If God is not perfect, then God is not... etc etc You know, this is actually wrong right? One can be very complete and still want some other things if they don't need them.

Originally posted by Nellinator
You know, this is actually wrong right? One can be very complete and still want some other things if they don't need them.

If you are omnipotent and omnipresent, by definition, you cannot want.

Not so.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Not so.

Do you not understand the meanings of the words, or are you making your own meaning?

I understand, you're simply wrong. God could take anything He wants, but He doesn't. Not because He can't, but because He gives us free agency. This does not impede on His omnipotence or His omnipresence.

Originally posted by Nellinator
I understand, you're simply wrong. God could take anything He wants, but He doesn't. Not because He can't, but because He gives us free agency. This does not impede on His omnipotence or His omnipresence.



First of all, if this god is a "he" then that god is not omnipotent.

So, I am wrong only because you say so. You can rationalize all you wish...

It's a reference. We all know that God is sexless.

Actually I showed you why your wrong. You haven't actually used any facts, or example, or analogies to back up your claims. It's not because I say so, it's because that's how it works according to the Bible, which is what you are questioning...

Originally posted by Nellinator
It's a reference. We all know that God is sexless.

Actually I showed you why your wrong. You haven't actually used any facts, or example, or analogies to back up your claims. It's not because I say so, it's because that's how it works according to the Bible, which is what you are questioning...

I don't believe that the bible is any authority on the definition of words. Also, I may have been loosely referring to a passage in the bible, but I was not questioning the bible; I was questioning you.

Ah...someone misunderstands the nature of omnipotence. (FYI it doesn't say he is omnipotent in the bible...as for omnipresent..."Man, Where are you? Why do you hide from me?"

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Ah...someone misunderstands the nature of omnipotence. (FYI it doesn't say he is omnipotent in the bible...as for omnipresent..."Man, Where are you? Why do you hide from me?"

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Ah...someone misunderstands the nature of omnipotence. (FYI it doesn't say he is omnipotent in the bible...as for omnipresent..."Man, Where are you? Why do you hide from me?" It does say He is all powerful though. Do you really think God didn't know where they were?

what does omnipotent mean? iv come across the word before but cant remember what it actually means

Originally posted by Nellinator
It does say He is all powerful though. Do you really think God didn't know where they were?

No, I think he just plays mind games...

Originally posted by the welsh one
what does omnipotent mean? iv come across the word before but cant remember what it actually means

All powerful, but all powerful means you can do all that is possible, not all that is possible and impossible.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
No, I think he just plays mind games...

So...should we all pray for each other? Even if its not a prayer to a spiritual force but rather an inward hope that people are going to do OK?

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
So...should we all pray for each other? Even if its not a prayer to a spiritual force but rather an inward hope that people are going to do OK?
Yes. You should pray for those who you hate, just as much, if not more, then those you love.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes. You should pray for those who you hate, just as much, if not more, then those you love.

I don't hate anyone...

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
All powerful, but all powerful means you can do all that is possible, not all that is possible and impossible.

but how can something be inpossible if God is omnipotent

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes. You should pray for those who you hate, just as much, if not more, then those you love.

if god were omnipotent then why would there be any hate?

Originally posted by the welsh one
but how can something be inpossible if God is omnipotent

blowup

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
I don't hate anyone...

Sorry, if that distracted you from my point. What I should have said was "we should pray for our enemies as much as our friends".


Now don't say you don't have any enemies.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Sorry, if that distracted you from my point. What I should have said was "we should pray for our enemies as much as our friends".


Now don't say you don't have any enemies.

Shaky, what you must remember about me is I am a universial friend to all peoples!

Seriously though, your correct and I do but when I said should we pray for each other I didn't mean in general but rather was the point of this thread for us all to offer up prayers...say, I pray JIA wakes up sort of stuff.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Shaky, what you must remember about me is I am a universial friend to all peoples!

Seriously though, your correct and I do but when I said should we pray for each other I didn't mean in general but rather was the point of this thread for us all to offer up prayers...say, I pray JIA wakes up sort of stuff.


Yes, I pray for JIA all the time.

does your god rate the prayers or is it a random pick on whos prayer to fulfill?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes, I pray for JIA all the time.
I don't

Originally posted by anaconda
does your god rate the prayers or is it a random pick on whos prayer to fulfill?

God answer's every prayer. (Oh, and yes I think future incumbents of the See of Peter are put on a high priority line)

guess the outcome would be very unfair to some faithful then

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
God answer's every prayer. (Oh, and yes I think future incumbents of the See of Peter are put on a high priority line) I know what you're gonna say. Sometimes god says no......

Originally posted by anaconda
guess the outcome would be very unfair to some faithful then

The answer isn't always yes.

Originally posted by debbiejo
I know what you're gonna say. Sometimes god says no......

Well...maybe they should pray to your syncronicity thingy...

seems like the answer never is yes for those who really really need gods help

Originally posted by anaconda
seems like the answer never is yes for those who really really need gods help

Well, it's all me me me with people isn't it.

tell that to some devoted christian praying for their starving children

Pfft. I don't need to pray for my soul - that's what my devout-Catholic grandfather is for!

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Well...maybe they should pray to your syncronicity thingy... What?? That's not a god....lol

Originally posted by anaconda
tell that to some devoted christian praying for their starving children

Ah, I love that attitude...there are starving kids in South America...their mums and dads go to Church everyday but still starve...Where are you God? What are you doing?

The real question, is where are you anaconda? How are you helping these people? Its all well and good for you to tell God what his job is...but are you doing anything?

Originally posted by anaconda
tell that to some devoted christian praying for their starving children

Good thing Christian Missions are there to help with whatever they can. Which reminds me....I need to donate some cash to charity.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Ah, I love that attitude...there are starving kids in South America...their mums and dads go to Church everyday but still starve...Where are you God? What are you doing?

The real question, is where are you anaconda? How are you helping these people? Its all well and good for you to tell God what his job is...but are you doing anything?

I agree with you, partially. Instead of clamouring for divine intervention, people should seek temporal solutions to their problems, even if "God" exists.

Yet, have you never asked yourself why, if the Scriptures are correct, God suffered to let man Fall? What purpose did it serve in Its "plan," if It is truly omnipotent/omniscient?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Good thing Christian Missions are there to help with whatever they can. Which reminds me....I need to donate some cash to charity.

Is that a joke? It would appear so, to me....

oh I help them with telling them dont worry there is a god with a greater scheme, if you starve here on earth just devote your soul and heart to the lord and you be saved and rewarded in heaven.....casue that sure as hell fill their stomachs.
I belive in that we can help these pople funding certain programs that help these people get a bit self sufficient, many christians organisations are good at this , but so is some non religious as well.......... to these organisation I donate money



oh yeah a really good thing, if they consentrated more on the task and less on thte preaching

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Good thing Christian Missions are there to help with whatever they can. Which reminds me....I need to donate some cash to charity.

Don't we all.

Originally posted by anaconda




oh yeah a really good thing, if they consentrated more on the task and less on thte preaching

And what have you done to help?

I answered that if you cared to read the entire post

Originally posted by anaconda
I answered that if you cared to read the entire post

*reads the entire post*

That's good.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
*reads the entire post*...

Wow! That's impressive.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Wow! That's impressive. I give money too. AND always help my neighbors out. Heck, I just throw all my money around, well, when I had it..

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Wow! That's impressive.

If you want to see something impressive. Watch me ban some trolls. batman

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
If you want to see something impressive. Watch me ban some trolls. batman

Please don't ban me.crybaby

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Please don't ban me.crybaby

You're our resident Buddhist member....can't ban you.

Trolls refering to the big creature in Norse mythology or just these ugly things in Lord Of The Rings

Originally posted by anaconda
Trolls refering to the big creature in Norse mythology or just these ugly things in Lord Of The Rings

I only ban the trolls you hate. batman

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Please don't ban me.crybaby

Ban shaky. I've had it done and survived!

starts to make list artist

You get NO say.

of course I do

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Please don't ban me.crybaby

shaky, your bond to this forum is the reason for your suffering. break free of it and you shall reach nirvana. you must be banned to find the blue bird of happiness.

so i guess big bird doesnt count

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
I ask it allot, and there is no easy conclusion. If I understand your question correctly then my answer would be "I don't know", I'm not sure of Gods motives for allowing the fall- if he did allow it.

Although I think your also asking about suffering, well in the context of the poor people throughout the world starving to death the answer would have to be, yes God cares and far more deeply than anyone else can, however because he is omnipotent he has the ability to restrain himself from instant action that we humans might snap to if we had the chance. However thats not to say God hasn't put measures in place to deal with this. In the Book of Genesis God gave Stewardship of the Earth to man, its our job to look after it, its up to us to care for each other- why the greatest commandment isn't just love God, but love your neighbour in equal measure! (Not as God though, God still takes precedence Shaky). So, it is MANS responsibility to look after the people in poverty as God's appointed Stewards. Also, it would be very easy for us to ask God to help these people out and for him to do it...but he never put them in poverty...man did, man has done this to man...we cant just go to God and say "hey, we messed up. Help us out" otherwise everytime something bad happens man will expect God to resolve it...mankind would become the spoiled child who never learned its lesson.

I understand your point - mine is why, if God is omnipotent and omniscient, he would suffer to even create us if he knew our path? Indeed, by the very terms with which we describe It, God becomes all but responsible for allowing our "Fall" to have taken place.

If God is omnipotent then he has to have the ability to allow/not stop/whatever the fall.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
If God is omnipotent then he has to have the ability to allow/not stop/whatever the fall.

I believe that the idea that God is omnipotent is a human misunderstanding of something they have no ability to understand. It is an expression that has many inherent contradictions. These contradictions are a reflection of the fact that nothing that can be said about God can be completely correct. The fault is in our understanding.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I believe that the idea that God is omnipotent is a human misunderstanding of something they have no ability to understand. It is an expression that has many inherent contradictions. These contradictions are a reflection of the fact that nothing that can be said about God can be completely correct. The fault is in our understanding.

Bible never called him omnipotent.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Bible never called him omnipotent.

My point remains that same.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
If God is omnipotent then he has to have the ability to allow/not stop/whatever the fall.

Yet, what is the point of allowing it? The point of our creation? Why allow us to be evil and an abomination to Its name?

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Bible never called him omnipotent.

Uh....that's not true.
It is referred to - and even refers to Itself - as the "Almighty" several times throughout Scripture.

Originally posted by the welsh one
do you prayer daily?

i sometimes prayer but its always to help me. e.g- one time i prayed to god for it to snow enough so that id miss school. it worked though it could have been a coincidence (it was already snowing but not heavily). Do prayers like these work?

what do you prayer for or about?

also, is prayer the proper word?


so basically tell me you views about praying.


Yes.


I beleive it has some power, because I beleive that prayer subconciously clears our minds and allows us to focus on what we want.

Anyone who beleives in God or in the "Law of Attraction" will vouch that prayer has worked wondors.



Put it this way:


When I was younger, I had serious asthma. I was a toddler.

My grandparents who were very religious did a series of prayers and poured Holy Water over my head. A few weeks after, I no longer had Asthma.


I never got Asthma again, ever since. I am 21 years old now. And Agnostic/Atheist.


So no, I wouldn't make up a story supporting the existance of God. All I am saying is that Prayer may have power, but for reasons we may not understand.

I personally beleive its all about the Power of the Mind, but who knows...

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
"Almighty" just means he is the most powerful in all existance, or that he has dominance over everything that exists.


That's not literally the same as omnipotence. Omnipotence literally means you can do "anything you want".


Just because you have dominion over all that exists, over all possibility, does not make you literally omnipotent, only virtually so.


If the Universe is limitted, then God only has limitted power, and can only do things within a realm of possibility.


You can be "Almighty" but not Omnipotent. This is a very good explanation. Kudos.

Originally posted by Nellinator
This is a very good explanation. Kudos.


Thank You.



How have you been, long time no talk ?

That doesn't seem right to me....as far as I am aware, conceptually, "omnipotence" and "almightiness" are equal, as are the titles "Omnipotent" and "Almighty," and "God" is referred to as such in all translations and versions of the Scripture....which would render them fallible if their statements were wrong....but whatever.

BTW: How could "God" have limited abilities over a universe that It created? That does not seem quite right, and would appear to go against all Scriptural evidence....although you seem to bring logic into the equation, which really has no place when dealing with religion....

That wouldn't make sense. Would that not render Itself useless? I mean, It wouldn't have control over Its own creation.

Originally posted by Nellinator
I've been good. How was your break from the KMC?

God doesn't haven't limited powers over what He created. However, He does limit Himself. He cannot lie, and allows free agency.

The real argument against omnipotence come from omnipotence being impossible.

In a roundabout way, that's what I was trying to argue....yet how can that be? If It created the universe, surely It is omnipotent - how else could It create the universe from what was seemingly nothing?

Limiting Itself may be possible, but is surely foolish....

Maybe I'm just a stubborn SOB, but I can't wrap my head around God being semi-omnipotent - It either is, or isn't. And hence does or does not exist, in my opinion.

Originally posted by Nellinator
I've been good. How was your break from the KMC?

God doesn't haven't limited powers over what He created. However, He does limit Himself. He cannot lie, and allows free agency.

The real argument against omnipotence come from omnipotence being impossible.


Within the realm of possibility, God is bound by logic.

If God is honesty, than he cannot lie.

If God is Love, than he cannot be Hate or Hate (that's another story though)

If God is everything, than he cannot be nothing.





God cannot be omnipotent, because that would mean he could do whatever the hell he wants, without violating his own standards for himself and everything else.


There is a difference between Almighty and Omnipotent.


Almighty literally means you are the STRONGEST and MOST POWERFUL of all. However, that doesn't mean you are unlimitted. That just means you reach the highest limit.



Omnipotence literally means you can do whatever the hell you want. It's not about dominance or reign. Omni- means all. Potent - means able. You are able to DO all.


There's a paradox when it comes to omnipotence, which was discussed in other threads. There's no paradox with being "almighty" though.

I don't really see how that is foolish. The two limits He has imposed upon Himself seem very logical. Allowing free agency only makes sense since He created it and being unable to lie doesn't hurt God in the least.

It seems we will not be able to agree, SpearofDestiny.

Your arguments do not make sense to me. How can God be limited in any way (save perhaps by self-limitation) if It created the universe? Even if It created the unverse and made it limited, this does not necessarily equate that God Itself is limited, IMMO.

Like I said above, I'm an SOB, so don't take too much stock in my opinion.

BTW: The so-called "Void"? But is that not explained in the Scripture: The Void was beside the universe until God fashioned said universe....I've always believed that the "Void," if it exists, would be representative of "Sheol."

Originally posted by anaconda
of course I do What entitlement rights do you have Mr. Music.

Adoption?






























Of beliefs? HAHAHA.

Originally posted by chickenlover98
god doesnt have to make sense. know why? it gives religion power. if its unexplained, it cant be questioned. hence why the church destroyed documentation and rewrote the bible No it didn't. Multiplicity of documents disproves that soundly.

THats why they severely trimmed down the number of gospels and books in the bible?

I don't really pray. But when I do, I pray to my ancestors. I...am not sure why.

Originally posted by Alliance
THats why they severely trimmed down the number of gospels and books in the bible? They didn't trim it down. Those other books were never in the Bible ever. And they simply confirmed something along the lines of "no those books are stupid and were written well after the time of Jesus and contain some pretty wrong things in them."

Originally posted by Nellinator
They didn't trim it down. Those other books were never in the Bible ever. And they simply confirmed something along the lines of "no those books are stupid and were written well after the time of Jesus and contain some pretty wrong things in them."

Can you show documented proof of that? I would like to read about how they put the bible together. I saw a show on the History channel and it supported how Alliance characterized it, and contradicted you.

Originally posted by Nellinator
They didn't trim it down. Those other books were never in the Bible ever. And they simply confirmed something along the lines of "no those books are stupid and were written well after the time of Jesus and contain some pretty wrong things in them."

Oh come on. Jesus didn't put together the Bible and say: here is a bible.
Books have been removed from ancient bibles and there were many more books written that were not included.

wrong to those who want jesus to be divine, but it is still the fact that gospels exist that looks on jesus as nothing more than a man with a message.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Can you show documented proof of that? I would like to read about how they put the bible together. I saw a show on the History channel and it supported how Alliance characterized it, and contradicted you. They didn't remove anything. The first canon was created at the first council of Nicea. After that there were two more councils that added a few more. Nothing was ever removed to the best of my knowledge.
Originally posted by Alliance
Oh come on. Jesus didn't put together the Bible and say: here is a bible.
Books have been removed from ancient bibles and there were many more books written that were not included. You're right. The church defined the Bible under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. I can't think of any books being removed. There were many not included though, but they were never included.
Originally posted by anaconda
wrong to those who want jesus to be divine, but it is still the fact that gospels exist that looks on jesus as nothing more than a man with a message. Except that Christians never actually used those Gospels. Which church fathers quoted from them? Which church fathers considered them canon? None. However we know that as early as 180AD there was a support for the four fold gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. The only books quoted by the church fathers that did not make canon were the Shepherd of Hermas and Jubilees. Neither is considered heretical, they are simply non-canonical.

Originally posted by Nellinator
They didn't remove anything. The first canon was created at the first council of Nicea. After that there were two more councils that added a few more. Nothing was ever removed to the best of my knowledge...

I'm not talking about books being removed; I'm talking about books not being added or being added to the list of books submitted for canonization for political reasons. For example; the book of Revelations was heatedly debated. Many members of the council of Nicea did not want to include it, but because it was a popular book and it made a good ending to the bible, it was added. This is according to the show on the History channel, I saw.

Eschatology going at the end makes a lot of sense imo. I can see why it was heatedly debated. The book itself tells us not to try and interpret it overmuch because it is so hard to understand. However, it is important to note that 90% of the rejected gospels and books were rejected rather steadfastly from the time of their conception.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Eschatology going at the end makes a lot of sense imo. I can see why it was heatedly debated. The book itself tells us not to try and interpret it overmuch because it is so hard to understand. However, it is important to note that 90% of the rejected gospels and books were rejected rather steadfastly from the time of their conception.

Your last sentence does not make sense to me.

There was a very large group of people in the church called the Gnostic's, and they felt that their beliefs and books where valid. Because their beliefs where considered harries by the Romans who where in control of the council and the church, they were wiped out (killed), and not included.

Originally posted by Nellinator
You know, this is actually wrong right? One can be very complete and still want some other things if they don't need them. Ermm, if you want something, you aren't perfect.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Ermm, if you want something, you aren't perfect.

That is what I would think, but I'm not perfect.

mostly cause they were seen as heretic writings, they went against what was "deceided" to be the real true gospels.
Since it was deceided on that this jesus charachteer was to be a divine one, of course writings claiming jesus was nothing more than an oridnary man, flesh and blood mortal as the next man was banned.

Originally posted by anaconda
mostly cause they were seen as heretic writings, they went against what was "deceided" to be the real true gospels.
Since it was deceided on that this jesus charachteer was to be a divine one, of course writings claiming jesus was nothing more than an oridnary man, flesh and blood mortal as the next man was banned.

It was a common Roman practice to make their Empires divine. So, when the Romans took over the Christian religion, they made Jesus divine, and destroyed any thing that countered this belief. Fortunately for us, some of the Gnostic hid there books before they got killed.

That was simply a complete ABOMINATION of history.

Originally posted by Alliance
That was simply a complete ABOMINATION of history.

What was?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Your last sentence does not make sense to me.

There was a very large group of people in the church called the Gnostic's, and they felt that their beliefs and books where valid. Because their beliefs where considered harries by the Romans who where in control of the council and the church, they were wiped out (killed), and not included. The Gnostics were not killed off until much later than when the canon was well decided. By 180 AD it is clear which were going to be accepted and which were not. At that time the Christians had no power to kill and destroy the Gnostics.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It was a common Roman practice to make their Empires divine. So, when the Romans took over the Christian religion, they made Jesus divine, and destroyed any thing that countered this belief. Fortunately for us, some of the Gnostic hid there books before they got killed. Jesus was considered divine well before it became the official religion of the Roman Empire. Even the Gnostics believed Jesus was divine.

Originally posted by Nellinator
The Gnostics were not killed off until much later than when the canon was well decided. By 180 AD it is clear which were going to be accepted and which were not. At that time the Christians had no power to kill and destroy the Gnostics.
Jesus was considered divine well before it became the official religion of the Roman Empire. Even the Gnostics believed Jesus was divine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

The Council of Nicea is when the bible was canonized (325 AD). Before that there was no set bible.

BTW I know that wikipedia is not always a good souse, but it was convent.

I know all about the council. I never said there was a Bible beforehand. I said it was obvious what conclusion the councils would make by 180AD.

And wikipedia is usually a pretty good source, I don't judge people for using it.

Originally posted by Nellinator
I know all about the council. I never said there was a Bible beforehand. I said it was obvious what conclusion the councils would make by 180AD...

Not according to the program I saw of the History channel. That is my only source of information on this topic. That is why I asked if you could support your claim with documentation.

So is anyone gonna pray in pray thread...or shall I brake the ice?

Dear God,


Please prove you exist


Amen

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What was?

Your assessment of Rome. I'll explain if I have more time later.

Originally posted by Alliance
Your assessment of Rome. I'll explain if I have more time later.

Please do. I was being vague and general, but I do not see how I was being an ABOMINATION.

Abominably vague and general...

Originally posted by Quark_666
Abominably vague and general...

But he used caps.crybaby

My thoughts on prayer, attached...

Originally posted by Digi
My thoughts on prayer, attached...

Yes, but what about those times the dogs were brutally murdered because of their barking? Seems like barkng has more of a negative effect than a positive one.

AHA!



And that happens to match up with that massive prayer study that they did. It had a slight negative effect on the "patients". We talked about it before. King Kandy took that to mean that no God to a Demiurge existed. Meaning, he was somewhere between "definitely no God exists or a God exists but it is closer to a Demiurge than the Judeo-Christian God."

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes, but what about those times the dogs were brutally murdered because of their barking? Seems like barkng has more of a negative effect than a positive one.

AHA!



And that happens to match up with that massive prayer study that they did. It had a slight negative effect on the "patients". We talked about it before. King Kandy took that to mean that no God to a Demiurge existed. Meaning, he was somewhere between "definitely no God exists or a God exists but it is closer to a Demiurge than the Judeo-Christian God."

Yeah, I think I recall that conversation. I definitely recall the study you're referencing. Of course, repeated data is the best kind, but it was the largest ever and was quite damning to prayer on an empirical level.

I feel like belief in prayer is one of those largely unassailable things, though. No one who strongly believes in prayer is doing so based on anything but feeling and intuition. Citing a study might as well be waving your arms to try to stop the ocean tides.

Originally posted by Digi
My thoughts on prayer, attached...

I personally like the story about the man who rang the bell every morning.