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Both have two weeks time to learn how to use thier weapon.

How would this fight go?

Flash will be using the ring and his speed force powers, and surfer will be worthy of lifting the hammer.

It would go the same way as Flash vs. Surfer.

Cause the Flash probably wouldn't be able to do much with the ring, and Surfer would never be considered worthy to lift the hammer.

based on his abilities, Flash should certainly win this....with his speed, he can learn in one minute a lifetime's training with the ring.

Originally posted by Soljer
Surfer would never be considered worthy to lift the hammer. Wait... it might be possible that Surfer could lift it...

What would be the difference between Surfer with or without the hammer?

Flash would win, only because of his speed

Surfer with Thor's hammer would win, imo.

He already has the superior firepower needed to take down GL Flash. Surfer alone w/o Mjolnir can defend against Flash's super speed. Besides, I don't think Flash would make a very adept GL as far as willpower goes... Surfer w/Mjolnir wins 7.5/10 imo

Originally posted by Evolve
Surfer with Thor's hammer would win, imo.

He already has the superior firepower needed to take down GL Flash. Surfer alone w/o Mjolnir can defend against Flash's super speed. Besides, I don't think Flash would make a very adept GL as far as willpower goes... Surfer w/Mjolnir wins 7.5/10 imo

So fighting thru death, out running the black flash, pushing beyond the SF to come back, leeching a world of speed to beat teleportation dont' give one will power?

Surfer cannot deal with Flash's speed....Surfer can travel at light speeds but he doesn't fight at lightspeeds

Originally posted by Bransolute
Wait... it might be possible that Surfer could lift it...
I agree, Surfer is one of the most noble heros in Marvel, and Odin does take a liking to him.

Even if hes not were assuming he can for the purposes of this thread.

Surfer wins

Originally posted by Priest
I agree, Surfer is one of the most noble heros in Marvel, and Odin does take a liking to him.

Nobility doesn't mean much. You have to have a warriors spirit, something that the Surfer most certainly lacks.

Originally posted by Soljer
Nobility doesn't mean much. You have to have a warriors spirit, something that the Surfer most certainly lacks.

I don't think he lacks it. I also don't think he is really a pacifist. He is extremely arrogant. He kills more easily than most Marvel heroes. He is prepared to put people to death in his recent mini where he dies he kills millions to stop a war. If anyone acts like a god and puts himself above mortals in comics it's the Surfer. It's also why I can't stand him.

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
I don't think he lacks it. I also don't think he is really a pacifist. He is extremely arrogant. He kills more easily than most Marvel heroes. He is prepared to put people to death in his recent mini where he dies he kills millions to stop a war. If anyone acts like a god and puts himself above mortals in comics it's the Surfer. It's also why I can't stand him.

Flash uses prep to

harvest Darkseids work on The ALE

crack the ale Ring and Flash travell through dimensions to the afterlife bathe in the source etcetera etcetera

Week two Ring uploads the ALE into Flash imprinting it into his Genetic code. and practice its use in combat situations

Flash and Ring spend the last two days honing impenetrable shields against high levell threats like Darkseids OE Beams etc haermm2

I dont see what advantages Mjolnir brings to Surfers powerset. He already has most of the abilities that Mjolnir would give him. Except maybe control of the weather, but in a fight like this weather won't be much of a factor.

Most of the things Mjolnir lets you do, the surfer is already capable of.

Only thing the hammer really brings to the battle for Surfer which he doesn't have already is the odin force.

I dont know Wizard magazine is an athority on comics but they said Surfer is FASTER then the Flash

Originally posted by nimbus006
I dont see what advantages Mjolnir brings to Surfers powerset. He already has most of the abilities that Mjolnir would give him. Except maybe control of the weather, but in a fight like this weather won't be much of a factor. True but it does give you Thor's strength and a butt load of Magic something that Flash will not have.

Originally posted by Newjak
True but it does give you Thor's strength and a butt load of Magic something that Flash will not have.

The Surfer is already class 100 and can amp to incalculable levels.

And (almost) anything Thor can do with magic, the Surfer can do with the power cosmic - but even easier.

Originally posted by nimbus006
I dont see what advantages Mjolnir brings to Surfers powerset. He already has most of the abilities that Mjolnir would give him. Except maybe control of the weather, but in a fight like this weather won't be much of a factor.

You ever heard of The Keeper? Basically that's what kind of power stacking Surfer will do if he gets Mjolnir. You don't need extra abilities, just to have an "advantage". And control of the weather? wtf.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
So fighting thru death, out running the black flash, pushing beyond the SF to come back, leeching a world of speed to beat teleportation dont' give one will power?

Nah, not really.

Originally posted by Evolve
And control of the weather? wtf.

Huh yes he can control weather,

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Thor/thortimecontrol.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/DieHulkDie08.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Thor/thorhurricane.jpg

Complements of Llagorak.

Ah, Surfer wins with or without the mallet he's incapable of wielding.

Surfer does not win without Mjolnir. People are underestimating what a GL ring brings to the table against anyone. I like Thor as much as the next person, but used by the best GLs, GL ring > Mjolnir in my opinion. The only question is whether or not Flash has the mental capacity to match the best GLs.

As for Surfer + Mjolnir, how exactly would the Odinforce amp him? It is not a demeaning remark. I am genuinely curious. If it augments the PC like the quantum bands did, then he would probably take the majority. Anything less, and a good argument can be made for Flash.

Originally posted by Ouallada
Surfer does not win without Mjolnir. People are underestimating what a GL ring brings to the table against anyone. I like Thor as much as the next person, but used by the best GLs, GL ring > Mjolnir in my opinion. The only question is whether or not Flash has the mental capacity to match the best GLs.

As for Surfer + Mjolnir, how exactly would the Odinforce amp him? It is not a demeaning remark. I am genuinely curious. If it augments the PC like the quantum bands did, then he would probably take the majority. Anything less, and a good argument can be made for Flash.

I think Flash on his own can give surfer a hell of a fight. A GL ring in flash's hand would be insane. Millions if not trillions of creative constructs in seconds. Fight scenarios and machine able to wipe out any matter, send souls to heaven, ect. Entire squandrons of JLA members created from nothing. All while Flash is now flying at superluminal lvls.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I think Flash on his own can give surfer a hell of a fight. A GL ring in flash's hand would be insane. Millions if not trillions of creative constructs in seconds. Fight scenarios and machine able to wipe out any matter, send souls to heaven, ect. Entire squandrons of JLA members created from nothing. All while Flash is now flying at superluminal lvls.

I agree that Flash will give most herald levels a good fight and beat the lower level ones as well. Which is also why I said that people saying that surfer beats Flash without Mjolnir are blinkered, because it is not going to happen. However, based on what we have seen from the Keeper, it can be argued that if Mjolnir were to work the same way as the quantum bands, surfer + Mjolnir > keeper, because Mjolnir is likely> quantum bands.

Flash could hypothetically do all that you mentioned, but I'm not sure if he would be able to upkeep the constructs mentally, and some of those feats, like the creation of JLA members were performed by the top GLs, whose level Flash is likely not able to attain.

Originally posted by Ouallada
I agree that Flash will give most herald levels a good fight and beat the lower level ones as well. Which is also why I said that people saying that surfer beats Flash without Mjolnir are blinkered, because it is not going to happen. However, based on what we have seen from the Keeper, it can be argued that if Mjolnir were to work the same way as the quantum bands, surfer + Mjolnir > keeper, because Mjolnir is likely> quantum bands.

Flash could hypothetically do all that you mentioned, but I'm not sure if he would be able to upkeep the constructs mentally, and some of those feats, like the creation of JLA members were performed by the top GLs, whose level Flash is likely not able to attain.

depends. Wally's will power seems to me as strong as any GL. he's ran out of the speed force before and raced against death and to save the planet. Plus he will have an infinite amount of time to learn to use the ring in two weeks.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
depends. Wally's will power seems to me as strong as any GL. he's ran out of the speed force before and raced against death and to save the planet. Plus he will have an infinite amount of time to learn to use the ring in two weeks.

Fair enough, but I'm not sure if those feats = willpower. I agree with the prep, but surfer can arguably do more with the two weeks, and a GL ring isn't something you learn to use in my opinion. It places more limits on one's mental capacities than Mjolnir.

2 weeks for flash are 10 years or more..
maybe he could stick running so that 2 weeks are more time..
and his speed says everything. if it is one of those flashes that are damn fast.. he could even return in time and kill surfer before the 2 weeks

Surfer can stop time himself, I assume that the weeks of prep don't include having yanky powers to give you more prep.

This battle is good, the ring may prevent Flash to get punked easily by destroying his spiritual self, his mind or any other cheap way out in which Surfer owns him 9/10. The problem is that I have not seen proof that Flash can make a good use of the ring, which can easily make him a crappy lantern and turn this to the benefit of the Surfer.

I'd actually still take Surfer. I find this whole "Surfer doesn't fight at that speed, he only travels that fast" argument severely flawed for the simple fact that even though Surfer hasn't been depicted throwing punches at light speed, he can still dodge, travel, and maneuver at warp speeds, and he's pin point accurate, meaning he can fly circles around his opponent without them harming him at top speed. So while he may not be depicted barraging characters with billions of punches, he could still dodge and maneuver around anything that could be thrown at him and blast the hell out of his target while doing so, as he has been depicted doing on panel.

Surfer wouldn't need Mjolnir.

For one the GL ring is almost totally useless against Surfer because most of it's powers can be absorbed by Mjolner, and I think we all know that SS>Flash.