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In Church today the Reverand was talking about it.

What are others opinions?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_course

God is so impportant to me.

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is so important to me...

Ok, so it's another route toward learning Christianity, except it's set up as a 10-week course instead of an organized weekly service.

Seems to me like it's no more deserving of attention than any of the local or denominational ways of learning Christianity. Hell, I've been on Christian retreats that took 1 weekend and dealt with half the things on that list (and we had pillow fights at 3AM).

Originally posted by Jbill311
The Flying Spaghetti Monster is so important to me...

He has touched me with His noodly appendage.

31

The teaching on Alpha is intended to centre upon the aspects of the Christian faith about which all the denominations are agreed.

Looks like a step towards unification.

Originally posted by debbiejo
The teaching on Alpha is intended to centre upon the aspects of the Christian faith about which all the denominations are agreed.

Looks like a step towards unification.

Yes, it's about the meaning of life, being positive and christian.

I love God.

I can see some good points but also some of the same judgemental points. They are still segregating themselves as the US v THEM. I also disagree with telling someone how to pray, as if someone can pray the wrong way. It also teaches evangelism, which is another name for postulation. I despise churches that put emphasis on that topic. It's the walk, not the talk. No words should have to be said to convert another. If they see your walk, want what you have, then they will ask.

EDIT

Originally posted by debbiejo
If they see your walk, want what you have, then they will ask. You're right, that is very important, but it isn't all. A sad majority miss this part though. It has to come first.

As for Alpha Course:
It's a good way for Christians to learn about the fundamentals of their faith. It's nice because it helps a lot of newer Christians learn what they need to know so that Sunday services make sense to them. It also does a good job promoting fellowship.

I didn't take it though, in answer to the question.

Originally posted by debbiejo
The teaching on Alpha is intended to centre upon the aspects of the Christian faith about which all the denominations are agreed.

Looks like a step towards unification.

Not bad, I guess. Though finding universal acceptance of anything is probably impossible across all denominations. It probably take most denominations and finds the overlap, because there's fringe Christians that will disagree with all kinds of mainstream teachings (even things that the Alpha course covers like "How to read the Bible"

Originally posted by cyber tuff guy!
Yes, it's about the meaning of life

Which is?

It's all that counts though.

Originally posted by cyber tuff guy!
Yes, it's about the meaning of life, being positive and christian.

I love God. Sorry, but this is a "We have no clue what we're doing as Christians, we're losing our flock, the Bible contradicts itself, we can't disagree with other Christians..." trying to save mainstream Christianity from its own stupidity because ID and other concepts are stupid... attempts at salvaging a religion...lol.

Pay attention to what happens in the Bible, God talks to man, and tells him how it is. He doesn't say come up with some decent thing and that'll be good, He says this is the way it is.

Friend of mine, who is a devout and lifelong christian went on this.. he says it was fine for the first three weeks, then it turned into som ething reminiscent of indioctrination into american style commercial evangelicism... but that might have just been the way these particular course workers did it....

YEPPERS! First the soft sell, then the hard sell. Marketing, ya know.

why would anybody need to take a course to learn about faith, either you have faith or you dont.
Faith cant be learned it has to come by itself not by influence of others.
How weak is a religion if you need help to believe in it

Originally posted by anaconda
why would anybody need to take a course to learn about faith, either you have faith or you dont.
Faith cant be learned it has to come by itself not by influence of others.
How weak is a religion if you need help to believe in it Wow, you miss the point of Alpha Course entirely.

oh really,
take a look at what the course teaches. So I ask once again why should anyone need to take a course about key issues in faith in this case the christian faith, faith is personal and can never be anything else and certainly not taught.

Originally posted by anaconda
oh really,
take a look at what the course teaches. So I ask once again why should anyone need to take a course about key issues in faith in this case the Christian faith, faith is personal and can never be anything else and certainly not taught.


No one is inherently a Christian, the key ideas must be learned (or must not be learned, depending upon your idealogical leanings).

you just have to read the bible to get the key idea

Originally posted by anaconda
oh really,
take a look at what the course teaches. So I ask once again why should anyone need to take a course about key issues in faith in this case the christian faith, faith is personal and can never be anything else and certainly not taught. Faith isn't taught. I never insinuated such. Faith is not taught at the Alpha Course, hence your premise is wrong.

they teach the fundamentals of faith which are unnecessary because it should be a personal experience and choice, if not it is indoctrinated...........very much how religion is passed on

No, they don't. Faith is not learned and can not be learned. The Alpha Course has no such pretenses and I've yet to see a program that does. Alpha Course is not indoctrination.

Originally posted by Nellinator
No, they don't. Faith is not learned and can not be learned. The Alpha Course has no such pretenses and I've yet to see a program that does. Alpha Course is not indoctrination.

Every religion is an indoctrination. In so far as they don't force someone into their particular sect of Christianity, sure, it's not technically indoctrination. But if you don't think it's just another version of evangelism (however well-intentioned), you're deluding yourself.

Their goal is to teach, but what are those teachings if not a means toward religious belief, faith, and adherence to a doctrine? It might try to bring together various Christian denominations, but that doesn't mean there isn't a bias toward showing Christianity in a positive light in order to convert others or make them more deeply religious.

Even though I'm not usually one to try to bring someone over to my way of thinking, if I'm "teaching" them about my beliefs (and non-beliefs) it's going to be a very rational, positive presentation....with the intent of showing it in such a light so as to convince others that I'm right. I certainly don't search out such opportunities, but anyone with strong beliefs has that bias....and the program is no different.

I'm not saying it's not learning about Christianity, it's precisely what you said: not technically indoctrination.

It's goal isn't to bring denominations together, it's goal is to introduce young believers to some of the main principles so that they have a fuller base off which to grow and search. Alpha Course doesn't have many non-believers attending it, although it isn't closed to them, it is aimed at young believers.

It's not about convincing people, it's simply telling people what the Bible says, exposes them to some practical and/or traditional ways of doing things, but mostly it's just aimed encouraging to new believers to start growing spiritually and giving insight on how they might go about doing that (ie. Bible reading, prayer, fellowship, etc.).

Fair enough. I can't spit too much venom at the Alpha Course, because in the scheme of things it's actually doing something better than most christian denominations by trying to unite them.

Originally posted by Nellinator
...it is aimed at young believers.

Hehe....as it should be.

This made me laugh and frown simultaneously. Targeting people young is always a good policy with religion. The old Jesuit saying (paraphrased) "Give me a boy for the first 7 years of his life, and I will give you a man," couldn't be more true. He'd be a perfect Jesuit man, though of course unaware of any dissenting philosophy to those he adhered to.

Many households can say the same about their childrens' exposure to a variety of religious and/or philosophical influences.

*Young adult believers. I think you have to a certain age. I've only ever heard of adults attending it, so it probably does. I've never heard of a child attending it.

The Alpha course consists of a series of talks addressing key issues relating to the Christian faith. This is from their own web site
alpha key issues relating to the christian faith, a faith that ought to be personal so the key issues should be personal too, unless you wanna be told what your faith should be about

oh no, thats not indoctrination at all

youth alpha, or indoctrination works best on them while young

I never said it didn't. I said it doesn't teach faith, which it doesn't.

It's not, unless you are insinuating that all learning is indoctrination with the attempt to force into one way of thinking. Indoctrination is a separate word for a reason. Alpha Course is not indoctrination, hence why there are small groups where things are discussed openly and questions are asked.

Like when they are adults which you have to be for the Alpha Course?

Hitler got em young too.

what to believe must be self achieved and not done because on behalf of what others say and do

the entire course content is indoctrination, a kind of attempt of converting to christianity

youth alpha takes care of the age limit.

once ther was a country that had a political party with an agenda. that party had a youth department as well....................

That not very true at all.

No, it isn't about conversion at all. It's generally for people who have already decided to believe. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Yes, because they are similar... Insinuating such in an attempt to make a point makes you look like an idiot. It's stupid, fallacious, and ignorant.

Your argument = fail.

they are all about conversion and it is just as much for people in doubt as it is for those so called decided to already believe....... If you already believe you shouldnt need to take courses like this , and I do know what I talk about. I dont deny the obvious of what alpha course is and I aint the only one criticising them the way I do.

ok mr brainy who did I refer to to make my point. careful cause the obvious answer about a leader mention just some pst before mine aint it

my argumenet still stand, you can disagree all you want doesnt change a thing though

You have what experience with the reality of the Alpha Course? Know how many people that have taken it?

Your argument is baseless and fallacious. It stands on nothing. It fails.

out of my entire family I am one of the few who havent taken it. Their verdict on it: waste of time for believers, good missionary stuff though.........or attempt on convertion as we also could call it

talking to a mirror are we?

again who did I refer to ?

Except for it's not about conversion. Why don't you go read what it's about and tell me where indoctrination is taking place. The answer is that it doesn't. It teaches, but clearly allows you freedom of choice with no pressure.

No, not really.

Hitler, I'd guess, though it doesn't matter who you were specifically talking about because it the principle that is stupid.

it takes place whenever they want people to join their belief, "let ME tell you about Jesus our lord"

told you earlier that it wasnt him, and I guess it is stupid as it is with everything that compare chrisitanity to well anything, so no not Hitler and his dudes.

but you aint to sure

Yah, that's not indoctrination.

No, the analogy fails utterly.

No, I positive.

Originally posted by Nellinator
...No, I positive.

HIV?

the indoctrination starts from there

since you cant seem to know what I refered too how can it fail

Obviously.

Not at Alpha Course. Maybe some churches do it, but not there.

Because the analogy is likely about some sort of nationalist or adverse movement. If I'm wrong you'll correct me obviously.

yeah as in political views and ways, just like christianity and the sneaky way of the alpha course, the Idea of the alpha course was used by East Germany only the ideology of a divine man was a political idea there. same methods though," lets sit in groups of 10-12 and discuss why socialism(communism)/(jesus)"

Yah, 'cuz the Alpha Course is so sneaky and alternative viewpoints are so unavailable to the people that attend it. Obviously brainwashing people.

yep

as i say.. a friend of mine is adevout christian.. he's recently been ordained... he wont have the alpha course in his church... he went on the course, and was appalled by it.....

I joined the Alpha course as a devout atheist and after 10 weeks my whole outlook on life and religeon has changed...for the better!
I now work 3 days a week on a Salvation army soup kitchen, i have donated a rather large amount of cash to the local Boy scout group and i intend to take the first steps to become a church warden ( a position which has remained vacant for months due the inherent dangers involved).

Originally posted by Gibsonsdog
I joined the Alpha course as a devout atheist and after 10 weeks my whole outlook on life and religeon has changed...for the better!
I now work 3 days a week on a Salvation army soup kitchen, i have donated a rather large amount of cash to the local Boy scout group and i intend to take the first steps to become a church warden ( a position which has remained vacant for months due the inherent dangers involved).

for your sake i hope that was meant as a joke.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
for your sake i hope that was meant as a joke.

No joke my friend, i've seen the light and believe me my heart is full to bustin with joy and happiness. If your negative response is anything to go by, it sounds like you need to open your heart to the big JC and there's no better way than enroling at your local Alpha course.

Bless you and have a very merry Christmas!!

Originally posted by Gibsonsdog
I joined the Alpha course as a devout atheist and after 10 weeks my whole outlook on life and religeon has changed...for the better!
I now work 3 days a week on a Salvation army soup kitchen, i have donated a rather large amount of cash to the local Boy scout group and i intend to take the first steps to become a church warden ( a position which has remained vacant for months due the inherent dangers involved).

Do they even have the Alpha course over in Scotland/England? For some reason, I doubt it.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Do they even have the Alpha course over in Scotland/England? For some reason, I doubt it.

Oh ye off little faith, try Googling it and you will find there are courses being held through out England.

alpha course is world wide, seems like stupidity is not a yankee treat only anymore

Seems like the yankee Western Treat is being replaced by the Eastern Treat of Spiritualism.

Originally posted by Deja~vu
Seems like the yankee Western Treat is being replaced by the Eastern Treat of Spiritualism.

...which is usually the initial path of those who dare to look hard enough at the mono-theistic religions to see how flawed they are. They venture into Eastern thought, then if they keep digging they realize that those, while they may be fine as philosophies for living life and treating others well, have no more rational credibility to their belief system than any other. But at least they're a bit less harsh upon one's rational faculties.




imo, of course.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
...which is usually the initial path of those who dare to look hard enough at the mono-theistic religions to see how flawed they are. They venture into Eastern thought, then if they keep digging they realize that those, while they may be fine as philosophies for living life and treating others well, have no more rational credibility to their belief system than any other. But at least they're a bit less harsh upon one's rational faculties.




imo, of course.



I think that's far too much of a sweeping generalization to make (yes I know you said IMO, but what the hell)

Buddhist teachings and Zen are wonderfully philosophical but the BhagavadGita is really really creepy.

I have recently read that Christianity will align it's self with certain Eastern philosophies such as a "one child" suggestion. This imo is an Eastern philosophy, but because of land mass. Otherwise. this course and others with other names will impermiate the churches, which the USA is over populated with.

Originally posted by Gibsonsdog
No joke my friend, i've seen the light and believe me my heart is full to bustin with joy and happiness. If your negative response is anything to go by, it sounds like you need to open your heart to the big JC and there's no better way than enroling at your local Alpha course.

Bless you and have a very merry Christmas!!

blargh you silly man. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!?!