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Yes indeed.. Now discuss..

The "only harmed by light sword/arrow" thing is removed, to make the actual discussion fair, or that'll be all we'll be hearing from those that is for Ganon..

i would say Baal

Baal can use Decrepify to slow and weaken Ganon to a crawl, he can then teleport toa distance and fire his one shot blast to splatter ganon

other ways baal can win:

Baal can use teleport then call up all his tentacles, if Ganon stops flying or gets close to the ground at all, hes toast and will be smotherd, Baal can use the same skills Decrepify to slow Ganon to a crawl, then he can use fire/ice if he doesnt want to use his one shot beam.

Baal can clone himself, that means Ganon will be looking out for 2 Baals, 2 baals that can do 1 shot kill move ,2 that can Decrepify and etc etc, a blood mana would be a powerful weapon as well, any spell ganon tries using will damage him.

Wow I never saw this coming, honestly.

Invulnerability is the most useful power he's ever demonstrated in a game.
Also, unlike a character in a role playing game, he doesn't have a wide array of defined moves.

However, he has a source of infinite power to call upon in the form of the Triforce of Power.

It's understandable that people have a problem with the "only hurt by the master sword" ability, but simply put, if he weren't evil, he'd be totally invincible.

Removing that ability is like taking away Classic Juggernaut's invincibility for the sake of the other character.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Invulnerability is the most useful power he's ever demonstrated in a game.
Also, unlike a character in a role playing game, he doesn't have a wide array of defined moves.

However, he has a source of infinite power to call upon in the form of the Triforce of Power.

It's understandable that people have a problem with the "only hurt by the master sword" ability, but simply put, if he weren't evil, he'd be totally invincible.

Removing that ability is like taking away Classic Juggernaut's invincibility for the sake of the other character.

thats kinda the idea isnt it, if the character is invulerable in the fight, like kain is an invulerable charcter, then its not a fight at all. But kain among many have twists so they can be fought, invulerability is cheap.

also stop overating the triforce of power, all this infnite power rubbish, its shown no such powers of greatness at all, the only true powerful is the fully formed triforce which seems (from what ive heard) give the user any wish they like.

Baal FTW. I have to turn against my melee character here. Baal's minions would give Ganon hell, and if he beat them he'd still have to deal with Baal.

Originally posted by Burning thought
thats kinda the idea isnt it, if the character is invulerable in the fight, like kain is an invulerable charcter, then its not a fight at all. But kain among many have twists so they can be fought, invulerability is cheap.

also stop overating the triforce of power, all this infnite power rubbish, its shown no such powers of greatness at all, the only true powerful is the fully formed triforce which seems (from what ive heard) give the user any wish they like.

Removing his invulnerabiltiy if functionally depowering him. It may be cheap, but so is superspeed, and time control. It's a part of the character.

I am not overrating the Triforce of Power. The Triforce of Power is the essence of Din, Goddess of Power (whom actually has infinite power.) While it doesn't grant omnipotence like the entire Triforce, it certainly does grant him virtually unlimited magical power and superhuman strength. It is also what makes him invincible.

You're a bit misguided. The Triforce of Power is what transformed Hyrule into the Twilight, and turned everyone therein into diembodied souls. It's immensely powerful.

Originally posted by rader
Baal FTW. I have to turn against my melee character here. Baal's minions would give Ganon hell, and if he beat them he'd still have to deal with Baal. Ba'al's minons? What about Ganondorf's minions?

Originally posted by Burning thought
thats kinda the idea isnt it, if the character is invulerable in the fight, like kain is an invulerable charcter, then its not a fight at all. But kain among many have twists so they can be fought, invulerability is cheap.

also stop overating the triforce of power, all this infnite power rubbish, its shown no such powers of greatness at all, the only true powerful is the fully formed triforce which seems (from what ive heard) give the user any wish they like. 1. They can win by BFR.

2. Lol what? If you don't know anything about it, why do you even have an opinion on it? That same ToP is what made Ganon what he is, it is unlimited mystical power, bestows great strength and superspeed, and makes you invincible. As CC said, if Ganon were good, he WOULD be completely invincible. The ToP's power once corrupted the entire sacred realm, into an evil one. That is just one feat.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. They can win by BFR.

2. Lol what? If you don't know anything about it, why do you even have an opinion on it? That same ToP is what made Ganon what he is, it is unlimited mystical power, bestows great strength and superspeed, and makes you invincible. As CC said, if Ganon were good, he WOULD be completely invincible. The ToP's power once corrupted the entire sacred realm, into an evil one. That is just one feat.

1. true

2. i was right then, not unlimited power, unlimited magic power, unlmited power makes it sound like someone is trying to make it omniotent in power which is power without limits...i.e unlmited power

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. true

2. i was right then, not unlimited power, unlimited magic power, unlmited power makes it sound like someone is trying to make it omniotent in power which is power without limits...i.e unlmited power I never said unlimited power...it is unlimited in that he never runs out.

If this is gameplay Baal, Ganon wins.

If it's actual Baal, like in lore, Baal wins.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
I never said unlimited power...it is unlimited in that he never runs out.

If this is gameplay Baal, Ganon wins.

If it's actual Baal, like in lore, Baal wins.

i never said you did, look who i was quoting when i said that

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
However, he has a source of infinite power to call upon in the form of the Triforce of Power.

i was quoting cosmic

anyway, why do you think gameplay Baal loses, obviously lore baal wins but why do you say Ganon can beat gameplay one?

Cause Gameplay is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO slow for one thing in comparison. Ganon could blitz him, he can turn intangible, and as for freezing Ganon, Ganon froze over an ENTIRE CITY.

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. true

2. i was right then, not unlimited power, unlimited magic power, unlmited power makes it sound like someone is trying to make it omniotent in power which is power without limits...i.e unlmited power I never meant to imply that he was omnipotent. He has unlimited magical power, allowing him to do things like manipulate reality. He's got immense superhuman strength, so he's a match for anyone in the power department.

Basically, when it comes to power, he's got an unlimited supply.

However, if he had the entire Triforce, he'd be totally omnipotent, able to do whatever he wants.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Cause Gameplay is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO slow for one thing in comparison. Ganon could blitz him, he can turn intangible, and as for freezing Ganon, Ganon froze over an ENTIRE CITY.

Gameplay Baal can teleport, as youve said yourself before teleporting is fast, and i agree, its fast, hes not going to be blitzed.

Baal is immune to freezing, so he wont be freezing baal and himself freezing a city is zero defence against being frozen.

Baal still has mana blood making all of Ganons spells and attacks using his power damage him.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I never meant to imply that he was omnipotent. He has unlimited magical power, allowing him to do things like manipulate reality. He's got immense superhuman strength, so he's a match for anyone in the power department.

Basically, when it comes to power, he's got an unlimited supply.

However, if he had the entire Triforce, he'd be totally omnipotent, able to do whatever he wants.

manipulate it to what extent? has he ever deleted someone from reality or done somthing on MJJ level or close?, is it conistent power without plot devices, can you prove it if you claim he has done these things?

so would anyone with the entire Triforce.....including me

Originally posted by Burning thought
i never said you did, look who i was quoting when i said that



i was quoting cosmic

anyway, why do you think gameplay Baal loses, obviously lore baal wins but why do you say Ganon can beat gameplay one? I don't see why anyone would have an obvious win over Ganon.

It's not as though he's going to be outclassed by someone. People fail to realize that while using the Triforce of Power, he is more than a match for just about any video game character.

Originally posted by Burning thought
manipulate it to what extent? has he ever deleted someone from reality or done somthing on MJJ level or close?, is it conistent power without plot devices, can you prove it if you claim he has done these things?

so would anyone with the entire Triforce.....including me He sent Phantom Ganon to a pocket dimension when it failed him. He also creates life from nothing.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I don't see why anyone would have an obvious win over Ganon.

It's not as though he's going to be outclassed by someone. People fail to realize that while using the Triforce of Power, he is more than a match for just about any video game character. Lol, I don't know about that.

Originally posted by Burning thought
manipulate it to what extent? has he ever deleted someone from reality or done somthing on MJJ level or close?, is it conistent power without plot devices, can you prove it if you claim he has done these things?

so would anyone with the entire Triforce.....including me Turning someone into a powerless body-less spirit, is the closest he's come to doing that.

The Triforce of Power is a plot device, and without it, he cannot do any of the things I mentioned. Without it, he isn't invincible.

Me too.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Turning someone into a powerless body-less spirit, is the closest he's come to doing that.

The Triforce of Power is a plot device, and without it, he cannot do any of the things I mentioned. Without it, he isn't invincible.

Me too. 1. When did he do that.?

2. He is still more powerful than any single mortal in LoZ.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
He sent Phantom Ganon to a pocket dimension when it failed him. He also creates life from nothing.

Baal creates life from nothing...he summons hordes of demons varying in type and power, from creatures that can ressurect their own dead, swarming balrogs, his own special minions of destruction and he has an indestructable shield.

I don't see why anyone would have an obvious win over Ganon.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
It's not as though he's going to be outclassed by someone. People fail to realize that while using the Triforce of Power, he is more than a match for just about any video game character.

thats quite a fanboyish statement, i mean Kain could defeat Ganon with ease, and i wasnt saying gameplay Baal would do it with ease, only he wouldnt be stomped, i would say Baal 7/10 wins

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Lol, I don't know about that. I'll stand by my statement.

Unless the said character is on par with the Goddesses, with all of his abilities, Ganon would be a match for him.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Baal creates life from nothing...he summons hordes of demons varying in type and power, from creatures that can ressurect their own dead, swarming balrogs, his own special minions of destruction and he has an indestructable shield.

I don't see why anyone would have an obvious win over Ganon.



thats quite a fanboyish statement, i mean Kain could defeat Ganon with ease, and i wasnt saying gameplay Baal would do it with ease, only he wouldnt be stomped, i would say Baal 7/10 wins Kain = vulnerable to magic, and Ganon is "more" invincible.

Ganon would take an easy win over him.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I'll stand by my statement.

Unless the said character is on par with the Goddesses, with all of his abilities, Ganon would be a match for him.

thats a foolish statement imo, as i said, kain would rip an y incarnation of Ganon and ime sure V2D would agree with me that Pyron would beat the hell out of Ganon, as could many Darkstalkers.

what are the Goddesses feats? can Ganon show comparisons? simply because he uses some of her power doesnt mean he can do everything she can

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. When did he do that.?

2. He is still more powerful than any single mortal in LoZ.
1. Twilight Princess

2. Not necssarily so. Before he possessed the Triforce, he had to bargian with the Deku Tree, and Darunia. Had he been simply more powerful, he could have taken what he wanted.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Baal creates life from nothing...he summons hordes of demons varying in type and power, from creatures that can ressurect their own dead, swarming balrogs, his own special minions of destruction and he has an indestructable shield.

I don't see why anyone would have an obvious win over Ganon.



thats quite a fanboyish statement, i mean Kain could defeat Ganon with ease, and i wasnt saying gameplay Baal would do it with ease, only he wouldnt be stomped, i would say Baal 7/10 wins 1. Kay. Ganon can summon on a whim invulnerable wraiths to attack enemies. Als can summon Phantom Ganons.

2. ....I didn't say that...

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Kain = vulnerable to magic, and Ganon is "more" invincible.

Ganon would take an easy win over him.

lmfa!! make the thread, kain vs ganon....lol..Ganon could have his soul ripped, his mind sparked, TKed into oblivion, warped in time and every other aspect you could imagine

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
1. Twilight Princess

2. Not necssarily so. Before he possessed the Triforce, he had to bargian with the Deku Tree, and Darunia. Had he been simply more powerful, he could have taken what he wanted. 1. When?

2. Lol, he KILLED the Deku Tree. He wanted to keep a low profile and cut the Gorons off from their food to get the stone from them.

Also, Pyron would PWN Ganon.

Originally posted by Burning thought
thats a foolish statement imo, as i said, kain would rip an y incarnation of Ganon and ime sure V2D would agree with me that Pyron would beat the hell out of Ganon, as could many Darkstalkers.

what are the Goddesses feats? can Ganon show comparisons? simply because he uses some of her power doesnt mean he can do everything she can
Read the last statement I made to you.

Invincible people don't get "ripped".

The Goddesses created the realm that Hyrule is in. They don't have feats; they are simply omnipotent. The Triforce is a small fraction of their power.

No, Ganondorf can't do everything that Din can do.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. When?

2. Lol, he KILLED the Deku Tree. He wanted to keep a low profile and cut the Gorons off from their food to get the stone from them.

Also, Pyron would PWN Ganon. Everyone was turned into a body-less spirits by the Twilight magic, amplified by the Triforce of Power. The only reason Link and Zelda weren't transformed is that htey had the Triforce pieces.

He gave the Deku tree a parasite. It wold like me giving you HIV via a needle. Doesn't make me more powerful than you.

If you're more powerful than everyone, why keep a low profile?

Pyron is like Galactus. Ganon wouldn't be able to defeat him, but using the Triforce of Power, Ganon wouldn't be killed either.

Logically, if Ganon attained full control over the ToP, he could do everything Din can. If just anyone got a Triforce piece, they might not be able to do much with it, like Link.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Everyone was turned into a body-less spirits by the Twilight magic, amplified by the Triforce of Power. The only reason Link and Zelda weren't transformed is that htey had the Triforce pieces.

He gave the Deku tree a parasite. It wold like me giving you HIV via a needle. Doesn't make me more powerful than you.

If you're more powerful than everyone, why keep a low profile? 1. Oh right, that's what you meant. Technically, Zant did that, but logically Ganon could as well, as Zant's power is a small portion of Ganon's.

2. He used a CURSE that gave a parasite.

3. He's smart, he's more powerful than any single human, not the entirety of Hyrule.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Logically, if Ganon attained full control over the ToP, he could do everything Din can. If just anyone got a Triforce piece, they might not be able to do much with it, like Link. He wouldn't be as powerful as Din.

Link sucks at using the Triforce.Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. Oh right, that's what you meant. Technically, Zant did that, but logically Ganon could as well, as Zant's power is a small portion of Ganon's.

2. He used a CURSE that gave a parasite.

3. He's smart, he's more powerful than any single human, not the entirety of Hyrule.
Po-ta-to Po-tah-to.

You might be right about that. Maybe.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
He wouldn't be as powerful as Din.

Link sucks at using the Triforce.
Po-ta-to Po-tah-to.

You might be right about that. Maybe. 1. That he does. Ganon has vast knowledge of all things magic, that is why he is able to use his.

2.I am right, as I always am.

Originally posted by Burning thought
lmfa!! make the thread, kain vs ganon....lol..Ganon could have his soul ripped, his mind sparked, TKed into oblivion, warped in time and every other aspect you could imagine
Oops. I was thinking of another character. Doesn't matter.

Not if he's invulnerable. It's hard to debate on Ganondorfs behalf without saying that.

Ganondorf can turn him into a powerless soul.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I don't see why anyone would have an obvious win over Ganon.

It's not as though he's going to be outclassed by someone. People fail to realize that while using the Triforce of Power, he is more than a match for just about any video game character.

That's what I've said all along.. Ganon woop his ass with Pyron, Jedah, Sargeras, KOS-MOS, Amazo and the Old Gods, the Prime Evils and Sonic combined, on his own, without breaking a sweat.. At least that's how some of you lot make it appear to be..

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Oops. I was thinking of another character. Doesn't matter.

Not if he's invulnerable. It's hard to debate on Ganondorfs behalf without saying that.

Ganondorf can turn him into a powerless soul.

no, him being invulerable doesnt mean anything to kain, has he ever had his soul ripped out before? has he ever defended against a soul ripping attack?...if not...then kain wins through soul reaving even if Ganons soul cannot be destryoed, he wins through submission when Ganon is inside the reaver

when does he do this? is it a fast attack? what form of attack is it? Kains soul is not powerless, it has incredible power in it...so you would have to tell me the specifics of this move, kain has hundreds of powers at his disposal and a shield from any magic attack is one of them, not to menstion with a gesture he can have ganon since with a thought he stops time all around him with the reaver, with a gesture, he could freeze Ganon in place.

Originally posted by Burning thought
no, him being invulerable doesnt mean anything to kain, has he ever had his soul ripped out before? has he ever defended against a soul ripping attack?...if not...then kain wins through soul reaving even if Ganons soul cannot be destryoed, he wins through submission when Ganon is inside the reaver

when does he do this? is it a fast attack? what form of attack is it? Kains soul is not powerless, it has incredible power in it...so you would have to tell me the specifics of this move, kain has hundreds of powers at his disposal and a shield from any magic attack is one of them, not to menstion with a gesture he can have ganon since with a thought he stops time all around him with the reaver, with a gesture, he could freeze Ganon in place. They don't do a lot of "Soul Ripping" in TLOZ.

So, simply because he hasn't had his soul ripped means he's vulnerable to it? Not necessarily.

Ganondorf uses Twilight Magic, which turns anyone in the vicinitity (except for those with Triforce pieces) into spirits.

If Ganondorf turned him into a spirit, he would be powerless.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
They don't do a lot of "Soul Ripping" in TLOZ.

So, simply because he hasn't had his soul ripped means he's vulnerable to it? Not necessarily.

Ganondorf uses Twilight Magic, which turns anyone in the vicinitity (except for those with Triforce pieces) into spirits.

If Ganondorf turned him into a spirit, he would be powerless.

And yes if hes never shown any resistences then it means it would effect him..simple...otherwise i could pull out rubbish like just because kain has never been effected by Twilight magic hes not going to be affected by it..Kains soul rip can rip the souls out of basically anything, infact nothing escapes his soul rip unless one does not have a soul, he would stop time, then do this to stop ganon easily.

ahh i see Twilight magic, Kain can cast Repel, while its active he is near invincible and it reflects spells back on who casts them....Ganon if it werent for his triforce piece would become a spirirt, also why would kain be in the vicinity?

Originally posted by Burning thought
And yes if hes never shown any resistences then it means it would effect him..simple...otherwise i could pull out rubbish like just because kain has never been effected by Twilight magic he's not going to be affected by it..Kains soul rip can rip the souls out of basically anything, infact nothing escapes his soul rip unless one does not have a soul, he would stop time, then do this to stop ganon easily.

ahh i see Twilight magic, Kain can cast Repel, while its active he is near invincible and it reflects spells back on who casts them....Ganon if it werent for his triforce piece would become a spirirt, also why would kain be in the vicinity?
Not necessarily. Ganon has shown invulnerability to magic in general. He is also able to reflect magic spells, and create force fields that are impenetrable to magic. The only magic that has ever affected him is his own, reflected back at him by the Master Sword.

It isn't just that Ganondorf's invincible. The Triforce of Power makes him undefeatable, except for by the Master Sword. Kain cannot make the same assertion.

One can only assume that if the two are fighting, they will be within the vicinity of one another.

Kain clearly has displayed more abilities than Ganon, but that is due to the fact Ganon isn't a primary character.

not neccerily....kain has many long range attacks, combine that with time powers and ganon has no chances in a fight against kain, dont overrate ganon, from what ive heard he is very powerful but power can only go so far, kain has too many "nifty" abilities how V2D puts it

Ganondorf has long range attacks as well, and the ability to teleport. He can also spread the Twilight over a considerable range, and render Kain powerless.

The time stopping ability is a magic based attack as well, which Ganon can counter with his ability to reflect magic, or his magic-cancelling force fields.

If you don't know Ganon, you cannot judge whether or not I'm overrating him. I am simply providing sound counter-arguments, though I doubt this dicussion is getting anywhere.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Ganondorf has long range attacks as well, and the ability to teleport. He can also spread the Twilight over a considerable range, and render Kain powerless.

The time stopping ability is a magic based attack as well, which Ganon can counter with his ability to reflect magic, or his magic-cancelling force fields.

If you don't know Ganon, you cannot judge whether or not I'm overrating him. I am simply providing sound counter-arguments, though I doubt this dicussion is getting anywhere.

i wasnt saying he doesnt have long range, you misunderstood it seems, i was just stating it doesnt have to be in the vicinity of eachother, Kain can also teleport, and you say considerable range? what range? how fast is the attack, you need to prove its speed, if its longer time than thought speed then Ganon loses, also your forgetting, kain also has reflect on magic, so no it wont render him powerless.

That depends, the effect itself controls time, its a time based attack, just because magic opperates and starts the attack doesnt mean Ganon can reflect it, only Kains own freeze enemy attack is a actualy possibly reflectable, the reavers however is not that type of attack, Once again, When does ganon reflect magic instantly, has he ever reflected a AOE attack (area of effect, because from the videso ive been shown he gets covered in them)

Ganons mind will be lost due to Kains incredible mind powers, like mind control

Originally posted by Burning thought
i wasnt saying he doesnt have long range, you misunderstood it seems, i was just stating it doesnt have to be in the vicinity of eachother, Kain can also teleport, and you say considerable range? what range? how fast is the attack, you need to prove its speed, if its longer time than thought speed then Ganon loses, also your forgetting, kain also has reflect on magic, so no it wont render him powerless.

That depends, the effect itself controls time, its a time based attack, just because magic opperates and starts the attack doesnt mean Ganon can reflect it, only Kains own freeze enemy attack is a actualy possibly reflectable, the reavers however is not that type of attack, Once again, When does ganon reflect magic instantly, has he ever reflected a AOE attack (area of effect, because from the videso ive been shown he gets covered in them)

Ganons mind will be lost due to Kains incredible mind powers, like mind control We aren't getting anywhere.

The attack banishes light from the area, substituting it with Twilight. Appropriately, it moves at light speed. Kain won't be able to reflect it's magic, because he will be powerless. The power of the Goddesses is the only thing that can protect someone from the Twilight.

Ganon can create a field of magic that cancels the effect of the attack.

What video are you speaking of?

Ganon can use mind control as well, negating that.

I just thought that you should know, existing as a spirit is something Ganon does regularly, and in actuality, the lack of a body allows him to use the Triforce of Power more efficiently.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
We aren't getting anywhere.

The attack banishes light from the area, substituting it with Twilight. Appropriately, it moves at light speed. Kain won't be able to reflect it's magic, because he will be powerless. The power of the Goddesses is the only thing that can protect someone from the Twilight.

Ganon can create a field of magic that cancels the effect of the attack.

What video are you speaking of?

Ganon can use mind control as well, negating that.

I just thought that you should know, existing as a spirit is something Ganon does regularly, and in actuality, the lack of a body allows him to use the Trifoce of Power more efficiently.

no were not

where does it say it moves at light speed, and this is irrelevent, i asked how fast Ganon himself can cast the spell...kain will be shielded, the effect will not even effect him...not that he wont instantly teleport out of range anyway or already be at long range.

can you show me this canceling field? that cancels all powers...

the one where Link attacks and ganon slaps him away and they save link and the big dragon blasts him with fire.

Since when does Ganon having mind powers protect his own mind, unless you can show me when he has protected his mind before from said powers....Kain has actually protected his mind from mind powers.

thats the problem, excisting as a spirit will mean he will go into the Reaver, imprisoning him..

Originally posted by Burning thought
no were not

where does it say it moves at light speed, and this is irrelevent, i asked how fast Ganon himself can cast the spell...kain will be shielded, the effect will not even effect him...not that he wont instantly teleport out of range anyway or already be at long range.

can you show me this canceling field? that cancels all powers...

the one where Link attacks and ganon slaps him away and they save link and the big dragon blasts him with fire.

Since when does Ganon having mind powers protect his own mind, unless you can show me when he has protected his mind before from said powers....Kain has actually protected his mind from mind powers.

thats the problem, excisting as a spirit will mean he will go into the Reaver, imprisoning him.. The same way that light moves at lightspeed, the absence thereof does as well. There is simply a flash, and the Twilight ensues. The twilight covers an indefinite range. Kain won't know where it is or isn't. The Twilight affects anyone who doesn't have the protection of the Goddesses. Unless Kain has divine power, he will be affected.

Ganon encircles Link with one during the final boss battle of TP. He outs Zelda in one in OT. He put the entire Hyrule Castle in one in TP.

Uhh, what game is this video from? I've played every Zelda game produced, and I cannot recall anything remotely close to what you've mentioned.

Zelda has very powerful telepathy. She is unable to invade his mind.

Using his spirit form, Ganon could take over Kain's body.

Ganon's spirit isn't just a spirit. It's pure power. The essence of Din.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
The same way that light moves at lightspeed, the absence thereof does as well. There is simply a flash, and the Twilight ensues. The twilight covers an indefinite range. Kain won't know where it is or isn't. The Twilight affects anyone who doesn't have the protection of the Goddesses. Unless Kain has divine power, he will be affected.

Ganon encircles Link with one during the final boss battle of TP. He outs Zelda in one in OT. He put the entire Hyrule Castle in one in TP.

Uhh, what game is this video from? I've played every Zelda game produced, and I cannot recall anything remotely close to what you've mentioned.

Zelda has very powerful telepathy. She is unable to invade his mind.

Using his spirit form, Ganon could take over Kain's body.

Ganon's spirit isn't just a spirit. It's pure power. The essence of Din.

the absence of light moves at lightspeed....false...only light is said to move at lightspeed. If theres a flash thats more than enough time to freeze time before Ganon can do it, kain has his own protection in the form of shields, he would just have to mist to escape its not going to effect a mist cloud.

i dont know the game, V2D posted it

has she ever tried and failed? show me please...

take over games body with what?, Kain can teleport, warp reality and dimension, how is Ganon going to possess Kain, not to menstion as soon as he gets near kain, sucked into the reaver..owned..

A shadow is formed as quickly as light becomes absent. True, not that it really matters. He won't be freezing Ganon, because it will be reflected, and even if he could, he couldn't affect Ganon thereafter. If the mist has a soul, it will be affected.

That video sounds like BS.

Not that it would have any bearing on the outcome.

Ganon can do all of those things and more. The reaver is not going to affect Ganon's spirit form. Ganon would likely destroy the Soul Reaver.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
A shadow is formed as quickly as light becomes absent. True, not that it really matters. He won't be freezing Ganon, because it will be reflected, and even if he could, he couldn't affect Ganon thereafter. If the mist has a soul, it will be affected.

That video sounds like BS.

Not that it would have any bearing on the outcome.

Ganon can do all of those things and more. The reaver is not going to affect Ganon's spirit form. Ganon would likely destroy the Soul Reaver.

lmfao.....destroy the soul reaver? theres no point in debating this, you seem to have zero if any knowledge on Kain or the reaver, i even seem to lack greater knowledge on Ganon in comparison to yours on Kain, destroy the soul reaver indeed

Do you mean to imply that the Soul Reaver cannot be destroyed, or that it's power is irresistable? Before you reply, understand that I know both of implications to be false.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Do you mean to imply that the Soul Reaver cannot be destroyed, or that it's power is irresistable? Before you reply, understand that I know both of implications to be false.
you do...do you...according to what? the only beings that can resist the soul reavers power, are those who wear the nexus stone of which there is only one

the only thing that can destroy the soul reaver sword is a paradox of time where two of the same sword is present.

Originally posted by Burning thought
you do...do you...according to what? the only beings that can resist the soul reavers power, are those who wear the nexus stone of which there is only one

the only thing that can destroy the soul reaver sword is a paradox of time where two of the same sword is present. The fact of the matter is that the Reaver's soul absorbing power isn't absolute, and that it can be overcome by magic. The reaver can be destroyed by it's own soul, and using his reality manipulating power, Ganon could do just that.

Besides, Kain has other weaknesses that can be exploited.

Kain cannot exploit Ganon's weakness.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
The fact of the matter is that the Reaver's soul absorbing power isn't absolute, and that it can be overcome by magic. The reaver can be destroyed by it's own soul, and using his reality manipulating power, Ganon could do just that.

Besides, Kain has other weaknesses that can be exploited.

Kain cannot exploit Ganon's weakness.


isnt absolute? when?....it absorbs every soul it tries to absorb apart from Raziels due to a time paradox. Ganon...reality manip to that extent? when?

what other weaknesses, he has barely any...

Kain can...one mind spark..thats all it takes and Ganon is drooling on the floor, or soul rip

Originally posted by Burning thought
isnt absolute? when?....it absorbs every soul it tries to absorb apart from Raziels due to a time paradox. Ganon...reality manip to that extent? when?

what other weaknesses, he has barely any...

Kain can...one mind spark..thats all it takes and Ganon is drooling on the floor, or soul rip If it can be overcome, it isn't absolute. It absorbed Razeil when he stopped fighting it.

Regardless, using the Triforce of Power, Ganon's spirit is protected by the Goddess of Power, who is omnipotent. The Soul Reaver isn't overcoming the essence of Din.

Ganon has created a duplicate of Link using his soul. Creating a duplicate of himself using his own soul is just as easy.

What part of invulnerability don't you comprehend? A mind spark isn't doing anything to him, because even if he didn't reflect it, rebounding the effect of Kain, it wouldn't affect him.

Kain is vulnerable to water for cying out loud.

Okay...I've gotta admit, some of the stuff you are saying CC, even I haven't heard before. Also, the vid that BT is talkin about is the one from WW when Valoo breathed fire on him and his fortress.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
If it can be overcome, it isn't absolute. It absorbed Razeil when he stopped fighting it.

Regardless, using the Triforce of Power, Ganon's spirit is protected by the Goddess of Power, who is omnipotent. The Soul Reaver isn't overcoming the essence of Din.

Ganon has created a duplicate of Link using his soul. Creating a duplicate of himself using his own soul is just as easy.

What part of invulnerability don't you comprehend? A mind spark isn't doing anything to him, because even if he didn't reflect it, rebounding the effect of Kain, it wouldn't affect him.

Kain is vulnerable to water for cying out loud.

overcome? theres nothing Raziel could do, it was absorbing his soul, theres notihng he can do to stop it, only kain could stop it by pulling it out but once its in your doomed, since Ganon would be a soul, hed be more than doomed.

false...prove this that he is protected by an omnipotent goddess and that she can protect him, like V2D says, it seems you making some of this up as your going along, so prove it.

invulerability can mean indestructable...thats all it means...his body, nothing to suggest his brain cannot be messed up at all, also it is not true magic, its a mind power...also Kain could just use his TK to move ganon about.

Kain is vulerable? to what extent, do you realise Raziel burned for nearly 10,000 years and only died and became what he is now after all that time, i dont think Nosgothic vampires are much more vulerable to water than anything else if it takes thousands of years to deal much damage at all, and this isnt Raizel, its kain who can escape almost anything a being can throw at him.

Ganon is protected by the power of Din, that is true.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Okay...I've gotta admit, some of the stuff you are saying CC, even I haven't heard before. Also, the vid that BT is talkin about is the one from WW when Valoo breathed fire on him and his fortress. Different Ganon. Twilight Princess Ganon and Wind Waker Ganon aren't one and the same. Besides, having fire breathed on him isn't the same as a spell being cast, so in the context he used it, it is irrelevant.

Simply because you might not be aware of things that I am bringing up doesn't mean I am making them up. Everything I said can be supported in gameplay.

Originally posted by Burning thought
overcome? theres nothing Raziel could do, it was absorbing his soul, theres notihng he can do to stop it, only kain could stop it by pulling it out but once its in your doomed, since Ganon would be a soul, hed be more than doomed.

false...prove this that he is protected by an omnipotent goddess and that she can protect him, like V2D says, it seems you making some of this up as your going along, so prove it.

invulerability can mean indestructable...thats all it means...his body, nothing to suggest his brain cannot be messed up at all, also it is not true magic, its a mind power...also Kain could just use his TK to move ganon about.

Kain is vulerable? to what extent, do you realise Raziel burned for nearly 10,000 years and only died and became what he is now after all that time, i dont think Nosgothic vampires are much more vulerable to water than anything else if it takes thousands of years to deal much damage at all, and this isnt Raizel, its kain who can escape almost anything a being can throw at him.

I haven't made up anything. Ganon's soul is protected by Din; that is why he isn't affected by Twilight.

Sigh... the Triforce of Power makes him undefeatable. Not just invulnerable. Unless Kain has a way to exploit his evil nature, he's doing nothing.

My point is, Kain has weaknesses (plural). Ganondorf has a weakness (singular). Evil destroying swords. Since Kain doesn't have one, he's doing nothing.

undefeatable my arse
link has defeated him too many times for that claim to be true..
heres some facts -
1. kain only has one real weakness, and raziel survived 10000 years of it..raziel at the time was merely a weak vampire, whereas kain is the vampire's messiah, the scion of balance..
2. the blood reaver (the weakest form of the soul reaver) was built to destroy the evil hylden..the fully powered soul reaver is the ultimate weapon of balance, meaning that it is also a weapon created to destroy evil such as the elder god (the biggest source of evil in the game)
soul reaver = evil destroying sword..
gannon/dorf - can only be destroyed be swords than can destroy evil...your words, not mine..
time stop + reaver blast/stab = dead gannon

Originally posted by MadMel
undefeatable my arse
link has defeated him too many times for that claim to be true..
heres some facts -
1. kain only has one real weakness, and raziel survived 10000 years of it..raziel at the time was merely a weak vampire, whereas kain is the vampire's messiah, the scion of balance..
2. the blood reaver (the weakest form of the soul reaver) was built to destroy the evil hylden..the fully powered soul reaver is the ultimate weapon of balance, meaning that it is also a weapon created to destroy evil such as the elder god (the biggest source of evil in the game)
soul reaver = evil destroying sword..
gannon/dorf - can only be destroyed be swords than can destroy evil...your words, not mine..
time stop + reaver blast/stab = dead gannon Once again, the only reason that Link has been able to do so is that Ganon has an inherent weakness to magical evil destroying swords, and nothing else.

I'm not saying that if Ganon made it rain Kain would die instantly, but it would affect him negatively.

As I asserted before, time stop wouldn't be a problem.

Remember that the Reaver didn't kill the Elder God.

If the Soul Reaver is in fact an evil destroying sword, then you're right, and Kain would win, as that would be a means of exploiting Ganon's weakness, and Kain is a much more capable foe than Link. If it isn't, Ganon would win.

Regardless, I'm through debating the topic.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Once again, the only reason that Link has been able to do so is that Ganon has an inherent weakness to magical evil destroying swords, and nothing else.

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
The "only harmed by light sword/arrow" thing is removed, to make the actual discussion fair, or that'll be all we'll be hearing from those that is for Ganon..

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Once again, the only reason that Link has been able to do so is that Ganon has an inherent weakness to magical evil destroying swords, and nothing else.

I'm not saying that if Ganon made it rain Kain would die instantly, but it would affect him negatively.

As I asserted before, time stop wouldn't be a problem.

Remember that the Reaver didn't kill the Elder God.

If the Soul Reaver is in fact an evil destroying sword, then you're right, and Kain would win, as that would be a means of exploiting Ganon's weakness, and Kain is a much more capable foe than Link. If it isn't, Ganon would win.

Regardless, I'm through debating the topic.

Kain has an evil destroying sword oringinally, and now he is likely to have Raziels reavers and powers (Raziels power and soul has gone into the reaver wheras his reaver twin on his arm itself has gone into kain, so either he can use raziels powers through the reaver OR he can do it himself) but Kains got a light sword reaver, like the light arrows are light.

Dont even try and debate against the Elder God, the fact the thing gets cut at all is quite powerful and stopped, the Elder God also unlikely has a soul, so the reaver would be less effective.

The Reaver is not an evil-destroying weapon...it's just a sword infused with vampriric energy. It can be used for good or evil. The original Soul Reaver in Blood Omen was distinctly dark, chaotic, filled with Raziel's insanity and hatred. The new Soul Reaver is free of all corruption but that doesn't mean it has an anti-evil aura or anything.

If you are going to bump, at least add some relevance to the actual thread with it.

Nah. I'll respond to the posts in the thread if they need correcting.

Threads has been locked for not remaining on topic, so if you decide to bump, please bump with information to the actual thread concerning the matter at hand..

The matter at hand was the misconception the Soul Reaver ws an evil destroying blade like the Master Sword.

Wrong choice of words from my side there, I guess.. What I mean is that no matter what conclusion one comes to concerning the Soul Reaver, it will not help achieving a conclusion to the actual versus..

Hm. That is true then.

This isn't even Kain vs. Ganon...

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
This isn't even Kain vs. Ganon...

QFT


I'd say Baal wins though..

agreed

and yea it is an evil destroying sword...read my post concerning that particular topic

Except the Hylden aren't evil or at least weren't. They were just the enemies of the vampires who were a bunch of nutjob zealots like Christian crusaders or Islamic terrorists. So the Ancients constructing the Blood Reaver isn't proof it's anti-evil.
The Soul Reaver damages the Elder God because it's a pure blade andattacks multiple dimensions. I guess that might count as evil destroying blade but it's a bit dubious.

while its true that the EG is the only true evil in the series (except maybe the hylden lord), the fact is that raziel sacrificed himself so that kain would destroy the elder god using the reaver, as it was the only weapon capable of touching him..the soul reavers true purpose was to not only contain raziels soul, but to kill the elder god..
so while i was partially wrong about the blood reaver, the soul reaver is in fact, an evil destroying blade..

Evil destroying blades can't kill Ganon either, so who the hell cares?

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Different Ganon. Twilight Princess Ganon and Wind Waker Ganon aren't one and the same. Besides, having fire breathed on him isn't the same as a spell being cast, so in the context he used it, it is irrelevant.

Well technically, they are the same person, just not a single being, in that one occupies the second future born from OOT's single past. It's been stressed before that no matter how many Links or Zeldas there are, there's only one Ganondorf in that he doesn't have descedants/reincarnations, a second self in a second future is different.

EDIT: But seriously, where the hell did Baal go?

No idea.

Baal as he appeared in Diablo 2 though would be crushed.

a demonlord who makes people explode by waving his hands, and can summon an army of monsters with that same motion?
baal stuns ganon with his uber shout than thrashes him with magic..
ganons gets crushed

Originally posted by MadMel
a demonlord who makes people explode by waving his hands, and can summon an army of monsters with that same motion?
baal stuns ganon with his uber shout than thrashes him with magic..
ganons gets crushed Magic? Baal in Diablo 2's magic was severely unimpressive. Baal can slow down some soldiers with ice. Ganon can freeze over a whole village. Ganon summons more powerful and larger monsters. Stun Ganon? He can't stun a Barbarian or an Amazon, let alone Ganon. Ganon just runs towards him and takes his head off. Hell, Ganon without the Triforce of Power is effectively immortal, in WW he was stabbed in the head, but did not die.

He was turned to stone, which isn't much different (not that his return to power wasn't implied). And in Twilight Princess, the Triforce of Power abandoned him (or maybe just cancelled out due to the Master Sword sticking through his chest and the whole evil-repel jazz taking effect), at which point he (for the time) apparently died (physically at least).

Originally posted by First_Tsurugi06
He was turned to stone, which isn't much different (not that his return to power wasn't implied). And in Twilight Princess, the Triforce of Power abandoned him (or maybe just cancelled out due to the Master Sword sticking through his chest and the whole evil-repel jazz taking effect), at which point he (for the time) apparently died (physically at least). Yeah, it is, it was another form of sealing him, which is all that ever happens to him. It was not implied in the slightest that the Triforce of Power returned to him.

In TP, it did not abandon him, we see a vision of Zant snapping his own neck, Zant was Ganon's link to the physical realm, after this, Ganon simply could not exist in his physical body any longer.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Magic? Baal in Diablo 2's magic was severely unimpressive. Baal can slow down some soldiers with ice. Ganon can freeze over a whole village. Ganon summons more powerful and larger monsters. Stun Ganon? He can't stun a Barbarian or an Amazon, let alone Ganon. Ganon just runs towards him and takes his head off. Hell, Ganon without the Triforce of Power is effectively immortal, in WW he was stabbed in the head, but did not die.
1. your comparing baals gameplay feats to ganons non - gameplay feats??
to use cinematic feats, baal:
- exploded a man without effort
- stunned the same man simply by shouting (the echoes of his voice could be heard about 15-20 sceonds after he closed his mouth)..again, no effort was required
- a weak diablo burned down a village. baal > daiblo in magic.
- burnt down a prison by simply being there, this was before he emerged, meaning he was much weaker than he could have been.
2. can you prove that ganon's summoned monsters are more powerful than baal's minions of destruction?
3. ganon's immunity is turned off, according to the thread starter, so the whole triforce/master sword stuff doesnt apply here..

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Magic? Baal in Diablo 2's magic was severely unimpressive.

L2P u noob

Originally posted by Nozdormu
L2P u noob
Indeed, effortlessly blowing up a man isn't something to be sneezed at.

Originally posted by MadMel
1. your comparing baals gameplay feats to ganons non - gameplay feats??
to use cinematic feats, baal:
- exploded a man without effort
- stunned the same man simply by shouting (the echoes of his voice could be heard about 15-20 sceonds after he closed his mouth)..again, no effort was required
- a weak diablo burned down a village. baal > daiblo in magic.
- burnt down a prison by simply being there, this was before he emerged, meaning he was much weaker than he could have been.
2. can you prove that ganon's summoned monsters are more powerful than baal's minions of destruction?
3. ganon's immunity is turned off, according to the thread starter, so the whole triforce/master sword stuff doesnt apply here.. 1. Most of his feats are in gameplay. In cinematics, he had like...3 spells?

a. A normal Barbarian old man with no indication of power. Oh, and the attack was SLOW.

b. Once again, just some weak punk who isn't even named. Oh, and he just yelled really loud. Yet that is somehow a feat that will allow him to take Ganon. Do you use effort when shouting?

c. Excuse me? Diablo was the strongest of the Three. And burning down a village, is not hard. Ganon froze a city over, and the monster Bongo Bongo burned Kakariko village, Ganon>>>him, he destroyed his castle while near death, and destroyed an entire island.

d. He burnt it down by walking through, not a combat feat, and that weak fire won't even make Ganon sweat.

2. They are larger for one, and generally cause more destruction(I am talking about boss level ones)? Oh, and Ganon's minion reserves is unlimited, he makes them, Baal's is not.

3. I know, without the immunity from the Triforce, he is still immortal, stabbing his head did not kill him, and the Light Arrows and Master Sword took several hits to seal him. Ganon in durability>>>Baal.

1: In cinematics he may not do many different spells, but he does IMPRESSIVE spells.

a: Ah yes, because the ancient ones would definatly let a weakling guard the gates of Mount Arreat. And do note that Baal did it without ANY EFFORT! Imagine if he decided to put an effort into things. Besides, the attack was HOMING! Slow or not, it would certainly not miss.
b: Again: Ah yes, because the ancient ones would definatly let a weakling guard the gates of Mount Arreat.
c: Excuse me? Do you know what you are talking about? Baal > Diablo in magic and destruction. Diablo > Baal in authority and strength.

2: Again you appear clueless to your counter-part.. So, all of a sudden Size > Strength? Well, in that case Baal wins this versus anyway.. And care to show me one of these minions? A video perhaps? Because I doubt they are far beyond the minions of destruction (Which Baal fyi brings from the pits of Hell. They may not be unlimited, but I doubt Ganon can summon a billion with the snap of a finger or something)

3: A stabb by a sword may not have killed him, but Baal doesnt fight with sword. No, he's a bit more artistic than that. Perhaps he will turn Ganon inside out, by bursting him like a baloon, or maybe he will throw him around with TK and shockwaves before physically overpowering him with magically enhanced bodymass. He might even let Ganon hit him a few times to grant him a glimpse of hope.

Originally posted by Nozdormu
1: In cinematics he may not do many different spells, but he does IMPRESSIVE spells.

a: Ah yes, because the ancient ones would definatly let a weakling guard the gates of Mount Arreat. And do note that Baal did it without ANY EFFORT! Imagine if he decided to put an effort into things. Besides, the attack was HOMING! Slow or not, it would certainly not miss.
b: Again: Ah yes, because the ancient ones would definatly let a weakling guard the gates of Mount Arreat.
c: Excuse me? Do you know what you are talking about? Baal > Diablo in magic and destruction. Diablo > Baal in authority and strength.

2: Again you appear clueless to your counter-part.. So, all of a sudden Size > Strength? Well, in that case Baal wins this versus anyway.. And care to show me one of these minions? A video perhaps? Because I doubt they are far beyond the minions of destruction (Which Baal fyi brings from the pits of Hell. They may not be unlimited, but I doubt Ganon can summon a billion with the snap of a finger or something)

3: A stabb by a sword may not have killed him, but Baal doesnt fight with sword. No, he's a bit more artistic than that. Perhaps he will turn Ganon inside out, by bursting him like a baloon, or maybe he will throw him around with TK and shockwaves before physically overpowering him with magically enhanced bodymass. He might even let Ganon hit him a few times to grant him a glimpse of hope. 1. Popping some no-name weak guard, starting a fire...yep, that's about it.

a. Speculation, prove his strength, all of those guys in Mount Arreat weren't very strong either, you can't prove either. Any effort? Ganondorf destroyed his entire castle near death. Destroying castle near death>>popping weak Barb effortlessly. Homing? No it wasn't, he just had the attack wrap around him, Ganon is not as slow as some 100 year old Barb, he would jump over it.

b. Speculation.

c. So Baal>Diablo in magic? I was not aware of that.

2. You appear to know nothing on Ganon if you assume he will be as easily killed as a no-name Barb. Size and strength belong to Ganon's stronger minions. Morpha was a giant creature composed of water with its only weak point being accessable if you had some way of stretching your arms or a weapon that can do that to pull it towards you. Gohma in WW could lift large stone and lived in magma. The Helmaroc King is a gigantic flying bird which only weak point is head, which is armored. That's just a few that I can remember. Ganon also has Phantom Ganon(he has many of those he has made) and can summon Puppet Ganon as well.

3. A stab through his brain with an evil destroying blade, a blade that he is naturally weak against. Even without the Triforce, he didn't die from it. Maybe Ganon will just crush Baal under tons of rock, chop his head off using far superior speed, turn him into a harmless soul, freeze him solid, or better yet, use his superior strength to manhandle him.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Popping some no-name weak guard, starting a fire...yep, that's about it.
And does the lack of cinematic demonstration of Baal's skills constitute any weakness or lack of ability in him, lore-wise?

Is that what you're suggesting? It's ridiculous logic.

Yes, because I'm sure that if Baal wanted to give his victims any chance chance to live he wouldn't have used a homing magical attack....it was clear he wanted to kill. What a silly notion.

Baal is clearly an extremely skilled wielder of magic, so it wouldn't take much effort to make energies seek out someone in particular. Gameplay mechanics are far too limiting. For example, in the novels necromancers were not only able to do their conventional in-game spells but also do things like teleport wherever they wished it, and manipulate the energies from a Corpse Explosion to go ahead and home in on someone (Moon of the Spider novel).

If a necromancer can do that lore wise then the Lord of Destruction sure as hell can.

No. Common sense. And Nozdormu is correct, at least in some regard.

The spirits of the Nephalum (the Barbarian spirit guardians at the summit) were the actual ones who were entasked to protecting Mount Arreat and the Worldstone. Baal didn't face them, he found a way to bypass them.


Diablo is the Lord of Evil. He is supposed to make people do evil things, not kill. He's technically strongest out of the three physically.

Baal is the Lord of Destruction.

You see my point?


Speed and strength matters not to Baal, who can just use magic to counter. If Ganon attempts to crush Baal with rock, Baal teleports.

And Baal's soul can't be touched by exterior forces when it's contained in his Soulstone, and as long as he is alive his enchantments on it protect it. Nice try though.

Plus, Baal can make two of himself.

Originally posted by DarkC
And does the lack of cinematic demonstration of Baal's skills constitute any weakness or lack of ability in him, lore-wise?

Is that what you're suggesting? It's ridiculous logic.

Yes, because I'm sure that if Baal wanted to give his victims any chance chance to live he wouldn't have used a homing magical attack....it was clear he wanted to kill. What a silly notion.

Baal is clearly an extremely skilled wielder of magic, so it wouldn't take much effort to make energies seek out someone in particular. Gameplay mechanics are far too limiting. For example, in the novels necromancers were not only able to do their conventional in-game spells but also do things like teleport wherever they wished it, and manipulate the energies from a Corpse Explosion to go ahead and home in on someone (Moon of the Spider novel).

If a necromancer can do that lore wise then the Lord of Destruction sure as hell can.

No. Common sense. And Nozdormu is correct, at least in some regard.

The spirits of the Nephalum (the Barbarian spirit guardians at the summit) were the actual ones who were entasked to protecting Mount Arreat and the Worldstone. Baal didn't face them, he found a way to bypass them.


Diablo is the Lord of Evil. He is supposed to make people do evil things, not kill. He's technically strongest out of the three physically.

Baal is the Lord of Destruction.

You see my point?


Speed and strength matters not to Baal, who can just use magic to counter. If Ganon attempts to crush Baal with rock, Baal teleports.

And Baal's soul can't be touched by exterior forces when it's contained in his Soulstone, and as long as he is alive his enchantments on it protect it. Nice try though.

Plus, Baal can make two of himself. 1. Okay, I will bite, what has he done lore-wise?

And no one better say he and the other Prime's were like the Devil as an argument.

a. Okay, so it is homing, but homing=/=un-dodgable. And it was definately slow. Ganon is faster than the Barb, or even Baal for that matter, he can dodge it, and he can become intangible or teleport as well.

b. No, speculation. He was an old man, whose only feat was being popped like a grape. and I should assume he was some uber Barb?

And that's relevant...how? He was not one of those guards, those guards are clearly more powerful.

c. Diablo is Lord of Terror is he not? So he is more of a mind manipulator using magic, and Baal uses his for offense mostly? Alright, that's all I needed to know.

2. Speed and strength matter not? Baal's spells do not appear to be instant, speed will matter, and strength will matter when Ganon brings down whatever they are fighting in down, as Ganon is strong enough to break out of tons of rock, Baal has never done so that I remember. That is assuming they are fighting in an enclosed space however, he never specified where the battle takes place.

I am not saying he would touch his soul, in a way he would be releasing it.

And Ganondorf possesses more raw power, speed, strength, skill, and durability.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Okay, I will bite, what has he done lore-wise?
In official lore, there has not been much regarding Baal, the main focus being around the protagonist and the general world background. There's much more on Diablo himself, who had managed to corrupt the most pure of cities.

However, his soul when vanquished was far too strong to be contained or destroyed, and only one of the most accomplished sorcerers of all time, Tal Rasha, had a will strong enough to contain Baal's soul so he let his buddies chain him up, jam the Soulstone into his chest and lock him up for eternity.

Figuratively they are, at least Diablo is.

That's just ONE spell that he has to dodge.

You misunderstand me, I was referring to Nozdormu's assumption that the ancients would assign someone powerful to guard Arreat, they did.

The old man was not one of them, I think he was the ruler of Harrogath.


Read argument further below. And by the way, a lot of Baal's spells in-game are instant.

Point stands; his soul is contained in the stone and nothing can be done to it so long as his mortal shell lives.

And Baal still has the edge, in his magic. If he really wanted to he could magically enhance himself physically; all the Prime Evils get to pick their own avatar. Diablo picks the scariest one, obviously, but Baal just relies on his magic solely, his goal is to destroy, not look impressive/strong/etc.

Barbarians being able to take down a Prime Evil solely by martial skill and not magic in-game is PIS, as was shown in the Kingdom of Shadow novel.

Here's Diamond Kisses video on Baal.. As you can see, ALL his abilities are instant.. Also keep in mind that it is a weakened version of Baal, since it is gameplay..

Also, it's seen in the game that Baal has the ability to fight the opposition from far distance, since he throwed curses and attacks on the enemies far before they even reached the throneroom..

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