did got set humans up to fail?

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chickenlover98
god is supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent right? therefore he fortold that eve would be tempted by the snake. so he wanted them to fail, making us be kicked out of paradise.

my next thought: free will is a joke.

let me explain: god can see the future therefore he knows what you will do. you cant change what your going to do because it is oing to come true. therefore free will is an illusion

SpearofDestiny
Originally posted by chickenlover98
god is supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent right? therefore he fortold that eve would be tempted by the snake. so he wanted them to fail, making us be kicked out of paradise.

my next thought: free will is a joke.

let me explain: god can see the future therefore he knows what you will do. you cant change what your going to do because it is oing to come true. therefore free will is an illusion


This has been done before in other threads.



Free Will is not entirely free. There are conditions (desire, influence, and necessity) which determine your choices. God or no God, destiny or chance, Free Will isn't entirely Free to begin with.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by chickenlover98
god is supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent right? therefore he fortold that eve would be tempted by the snake. so he wanted them to fail, making us be kicked out of paradise.

my next thought: free will is a joke.

let me explain: god can see the future therefore he knows what you will do. you cant change what your going to do because it is oing to come true. therefore free will is an illusion

I will give you the simple answer: no one can understand the true nature of reality. We can learn more and more over time, but we will never be completely right. The people who write the bible did not understand the true nature of God, but they thought they understand some small aspect, and they wrote it down. They were wrong, just like we are wrong.

DigiMark007
lol at the thought progression. "First! The Fall of Man. Second! Free Will Sucks."

Good times.

....

But yeah, generally I agree, in spirit if not execution.

chickenlover98
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I will give you the simple answer: no one can understand the true nature of reality. We can learn more and more over time, but we will never be completely right. The people who write the bible did not understand the true nature of God, but they thought they understand some small aspect, and they wrote it down. They were wrong, just like we are wrong.

thats not simple. its complex if you think about it. i love your reasoning though. thank you big grin

anaconda
man set god(s) up to fail

SpearofDestiny
If you read through the Bible, there are instances where it does seem that God will test someone by making the circumstances such that it is almost impossible to prevail or stay loyal to God (story of Job for example).


However, I think these are stories about Human Limits, and I think the message is supposed to be that we have the ability to endure anything if we keep a strong Faith in God.


A controversial message, but a nice one I think. What I would personally derive from that is that the human mind is very powerful, and the mind exceeds the body. If one's will is that strong, than he or she can endure or surpass nearly anything circumstance has to offer.



As for the Adam and Eve story....I personally feel it is completely flawed. God allowed the serpant to tempt Adam and Eve. God put the Tree of Knowledge there, when he should have located it somewhere else. God tested his first creations, wanting to know how loyal they really were- an egotistic entity indeed.

Secondly, for the mistake of eating the fruit, God cast upon Adam and Eve an eternal punishment.....life of hardship, having thier hardships pass upon thier children and thier children (personally, I don't know how Cain and Abel had kids)


*I do not feel a child is responsible for the "wrongs" of his or her father or mother.


The story of Adam and Eve, is too similiar to Pandora's Box, and thus, irrelevant to me.

Quiero Mota
I don't believe God can see the future, so no, he didn't set us up for failure.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I don't believe God can see the future, so no, he didn't set us up for failure.

Then god is not all knowing. wink

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Then god is not all knowing. wink

Exactly. It would make no sense to create someone, just to eternally torture them.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Exactly. It would make no sense to create someone, just to eternally torture them.

Then the bible is wrong when it says that god is all knowing?

lord xyz
The Bible is written by many different people who don't know what they're talking about.

Zeal Ex Nihilo
See this? This is verbal defecation: BLAARGH.

It is better than this thread.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
See this? This is verbal defecation: BLAARGH.

It is better than this thread.

Are you talking about yourself? confused

Zeal Ex Nihilo
I am better than this thread, yes, but I was not talking about myself.

Zeal Ex Nihilo
Let us suppose that God is wholly omniscient--He knows everything, including the future. Thus, God has known from the beginning--as much as He has a beginning, considering He is without one--everything that mankind has done and will do. Furthermore, God has known everything that He has done and will do.

Let us further suppose that the "omniscience paradox" applies to God. Because of this, humans are totally without free will. However, since God's omniscience applies to Himself, God too is bound by the omniscience paradox--God cannot go against what God has always known that He will do. Therefore, God lacks free will.

What does this mean? Well, for one thing, it entirely negates the argument about God being unfair for throwing people into hell; God lacks free will, so He cannot do anything but throw people into hell. Additionally, it negates pretty much any argument against God on the basis of "omg he's mean!1!"

Welcome to failure. Our inability to control our destinies makes me smile, as I'm not to blame for my actions.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Let us suppose that God is wholly omniscient--He knows everything, including the future. Thus, God has known from the beginning--as much as He has a beginning, considering He is without one--everything that mankind has done and will do. Furthermore, God has known everything that He has done and will do.

Let us further suppose that the "omniscience paradox" applies to God. Because of this, humans are totally without free will. However, since God's omniscience applies to Himself, God too is bound by the omniscience paradox--God cannot go against what God has always known that He will do. Therefore, God lacks free will.

What does this mean? Well, for one thing, it entirely negates the argument about God being unfair for throwing people into hell; God lacks free will, so He cannot do anything but throw people into hell. Additionally, it negates pretty much any argument against God on the basis of "omg he's mean!1!"

Welcome to failure. Our inability to control our destinies makes me smile, as I'm not to blame for my actions.

If you are right, there is something that god cannot do. That is to go against "his" destiny. Then that means that god is limited in some way, and is not omnipotent.

Zeal Ex Nihilo
This is true. It would require a paradigm shift in the nature of God, but it would certainly get rid of most of the arguments against the existence of God.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
This is true. It would require a paradigm shift in the nature of God, but it would certainly get rid of most of the arguments against the existence of God.

Yes, but it would established the fact that the bible is fallible.

Zeal Ex Nihilo
That's not really relevant.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
That's not really relevant.

It is to all those people who believe the bible literally. If you believe that the god, in the bible, is just man's interpretation of god, and not to be taken literally, then we are in agreement.

Bardock42
Why was this not changed to God yet.

It is irritating.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
This is true. It would require a paradigm shift in the nature of God, but it would certainly get rid of most of the arguments against the existence of God.

Then He would not be much of a god, would He?

SpearofDestiny
I am perfectly okay with people utilizing the Bible, or Quran, or Vedis, or whatnot to have some kind of guidance towards what they percieve as God.


The problem is when a person beleives that thier chosen book is the only path to God or Enlightenment of some kind. People choose different paths, and different things work for them. As long as they do not cause another person suffering, than there shouldn't be a problem.

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Then the bible is wrong when it says that god is all knowing?

I think it is. That was just an instance of a guy inserting what he felt was an attribute of God.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I think it is. That was just an instance of a guy inserting what he felt was an attribute of God.

Then in some small way, we agree.

SpearofDestiny
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I think it is. That was just an instance of a guy inserting what he felt was an attribute of God.


That's okay. We are all only human. As long as we recognize that we may not know everything.

Zeal Ex Nihilo
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It is to all those people who believe the bible literally. If you believe that the god, in the bible, is just man's interpretation of god, and not to be taken literally, then we are in agreement.
We're not.
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
I am perfectly okay with people utilizing the Bible, or Quran, or Vedis, or whatnot to have some kind of guidance towards what they percieve as God.


The problem is when a person beleives that thier chosen book is the only path to God or Enlightenment of some kind. People choose different paths, and different things work for them. As long as they do not cause another person suffering, than there shouldn't be a problem.
This is the typical tripe that you nonbelievers spout.

I don't fall for that crap. "Whatever works for them"--yes, if they're just trying to get through this life. "Whatever" leads to the second death in the end, though.

Here's a thought: What if hell is real? And what if I feel that, in order to save people from going to hell, I have to do anything humanly possible to get them to repent? What if I torture them to bring them to God? What if that is the truly right thing to do?

After all, I am allowing them to die if I do otherwise. Isn't bringing them pain that they might find life preferable to letting them go on to find death?

(Chew on that one for awhile. I can already hear the flames.)

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
We're not...

We're not what? confused I wasn't talking to you, so your interjection is nonsense.

Zeal Ex Nihilo
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
then we are in agreement.
You said this to me.

I responded.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
You said this to me.

I responded.

confused I think I responded to the wrong post. embarrasment I would never agree with you. stick out tongue

SpearofDestiny
Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
This is the typical tripe that you nonbelievers spout.


So ? It's better than the crap you try to preach.



Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
I don't fall for that crap. "Whatever works for them"--yes, if they're just trying to get through this life. "Whatever" leads to the second death in the end, though.




According to your myth.....




Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Here's a thought: What if hell is real? And what if I feel that, in order to save people from going to hell, I have to do anything humanly possible to get them to repent? What if I torture them to bring them to God? What if that is the truly right thing to do?


Here's a thought:


1) What if Hell isn't real ?

2) What If I already considered repenting, but don't buy it ?

3) If you torture someone, than you are hurting them. If torture is a method God requires to bring others closer to him, than that is not the kind of God I want to be anywhere near.

4) Why would God require torture, but then try to get us to fear Hell ? You make no sense.





Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
After all, I am allowing them to die if I do otherwise. Isn't bringing them pain that they might find life preferable to letting them go on to find death?


You would honestly torture someone to convert them ? Are you insane ?




Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
(Chew on that one for awhile. I can already hear the flames.)


All you have proven is what an idiot zealot you truly are.

Zeal Ex Nihilo
Oh, you blithering twit, I was speaking hypothetically. Much like in my second post.

chickenlover98
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I think it is. That was just an instance of a guy inserting what he felt was an attribute of God.

well then ur admitting the bible is fallable. therefore all its content is suspect. how can u trust it then?

Quark_666
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
all those people who believe the bible literally

how many?

Shalimar_fox
No God never set humans up to fail.He gave us free will just like he gave the Angels but some of them messed up and so did our greatX grandmother(Eve)& granddad(Adam).If the point you wait to know is about Hell.Which i think it is. Hell was never ment for humans.As an matter of fact God said that he wish none would perishe but seens God is an holy God he must jugde sin even though he dosn't want us his childern to have to meet satan and his lackies face to face.

Shalimar_fox
Originally posted by chickenlover98
god is supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent right? therefore he fortold that eve would be tempted by the snake. so he wanted them to fail, making us be kicked out of paradise.

my next thought: free will is a joke.

let me explain: god can see the future therefore he knows what you will do. you cant change what your going to do because it is oing to come true. therefore free will is an illusion

No he gives you the choice on which path you take.Even sciences states the at future is always changing due to our choices in life.Think of it as an game of Shoots and Ladders.God sits back an wacthes while the dice in these case is what you choose.if you choose to sin your going down the shoot but if you choose the high road(holy)you go up the ladder.

I would as that you not worry yourself friend with such thing.For God ways are much bigger than mans ways.We as humans can't think of how that or any thing of God works.This was even hard for me but the only thing that helped me was the Holy Ghost

Bardock42
Originally posted by Shalimar_fox
No God never set humans up to fail.He gave us free will just like he gave the Angels but some of them messed up and so did our greatX grandmother(Eve)& granddad(Adam).If the point you wait to know is about Hell.Which i think it is. Hell was never ment for humans.As an matter of fact God said that he wish none would perishe but seens God is an holy God he must jugde sin even though he dosn't want us his childern to have to meet satan and his lackies face to face. So he has no free will, he has to do what he is meant to do?

Shalimar_fox
He has free will.let me put it this way.We won't put up with sin. It's just that God keeps his word (something none one (not me,not you,not the pastor or prophet, or teach, or apostel, or Evangelist can do 100% of the time)

leonheartmm
how can god keep his word when his word consists of contradicting and self negating concepts?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Quark_666
how many?

More then one.

chickenlover98
this is sad. everyone says their god is all powerful and all knowing, yet no one can accept that free will doesnt exist because of the fact that god can see the future, therefore whatever u do is set in stone. also no one sees that he KNEW what adam and eve would do and therefore condemded them and their children to a life of suffering KNOWINGLY.

i want digi's opinion on this, seeing as he used to be a catholic

Zeal Ex Nihilo
Originally posted by chickenlover98
this is sad. everyone says their god is all powerful and all knowing, yet no one can accept that free will doesnt exist because of the fact that god can see the future, therefore whatever u do is set in stone. also no one sees that he KNEW what adam and eve would do and therefore condemded them and their children to a life of suffering KNOWINGLY.

i want digi's opinion on this, seeing as he used to be a catholic
*Sighs.* Didn't I just disprove how this DOESN'T work?

Oh, yeah. I did. Because, theoretically, God lacks free will, too...if you accept the fact that God is limited by His own power.

anaconda
only in your own head

Shalimar_fox
Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
*Sighs.* Didn't I just disprove how this DOESN'T work?

Oh, yeah. I did. Because, theoretically, God lacks free will, too...if you accept the fact that God is limited by His own power.

I disagree on most of your post ,you are right about one thing.there is only one limit my God has.The fact that he can not Sin.That is the only limit my friend.

As for most of you, you just wan't look at the fact that the future is always shifting and we are the actors and God is the viewer.Perhaps you can see the truth is because the very fact is you don't what to see it.As i posted before our (human)brains are far to small to understand the ways of Homo Superior A.K.A GOD.So way waste your time tring to nit pit about every little thing that just doesn't open itself up to you the very moment you try to understand it.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Shalimar_fox
I disagree on most of your post ,you are right about one thing.there is only one limit my God has.The fact that he can not Sin.That is the only limit my friend.

As for most of you, you just wan't look at the fact that the future is always shifting and we are the actors and God is the viewer.Perhaps you can see the truth is because the very fact is you don't what to see it.As i posted before our (human)brains are far to small to understand the ways of Homo Superior A.K.A GOD.So way waste your time tring to nit pit about every little thing that just doesn't open itself up to you the very moment you try to understand it.

You are one the right path, but take it one step further... no one can understand the nature of God.

BTW a god that cannot sin is a limited god.

Shalimar_fox
shocking.one of you all agrees with me for the most part.Jesus must be leaping for joy

chickenlover98
jesus can go **** himself. he's a hypocrite

Zeal Ex Nihilo
Durhurhurh.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Durhurhurh.

Keep your sounds to yourself. stick out tongue

debbiejo
Originally posted by chickenlover98
jesus can go **** himself. he's a hypocrite Now, now, go make a tea or something. Jesus was never to souce of nastiness.........IT IS DAMN PAUL......

Sadako of Girth
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I will give you the simple answer: no one can understand the true nature of reality. We can learn more and more over time, but we will never be completely right. The people who write the bible did not understand the true nature of God, but they thought they understand some small aspect, and they wrote it down. They were wrong, just like we are wrong.

Now if you'd said no one can grasp anything other than their own personal reality then, I'd agree with you on the first sentence.

The rest I agree with.

And people should learn to stop projecting their realities onto others.

Thats where hate/war starts. "Only one true god" etc

chickenlover98
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Now if you'd said no one can grasp anything other than their own personal reality then, I'd agree with you on the first sentence.

The rest I agree with.

And people should learn to stop projecting their realities onto others.

Thats where hate/war starts. "Only one true god" etc

true true, but to do that is to bypass humanity

Shalimar_fox
Please thats not how hate starts or wars. you all should be sick of using that one as many times as you do.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Shalimar_fox
Please thats not how hate starts or wars. you all should be sick of using that one as many times as you do.

Words cause war.

Mr.Murder27
Maybe I should stay out of this cuz I got banned for taking up for the fact that god is real on another forum.
I believe in god.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Mr.Murder27
Maybe I should stay out of this cuz I got banned for taking up for the fact that god is real on another forum.
I believe in god.

It is ok to believe in God. Do you make other people believe in your god?

chickenlover98
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It is ok to believe in God. Do you make other people believe in your god?

can you say forcing your religion upon other children?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by chickenlover98
can you say forcing your religion upon other children?

That would count.

debbiejo
Even Jesus hung out with sinners. He's no dummy, he's knows who's the fun bunch! beer

Shalimar_fox
for one my lord was around sinners to bring them the light.lets not talk about force. why is it ok for the Athenis or homosexuals(sorry i had to use that word, but i couldn't think of any other way)to force their believe on us that are sold out for Christ.I mean tell me how is it right for grown(18+)men that like the same sex to yell and curse teenages that range from 13-17. I think you all have it all wrong.It is not you we hate.It is the sin that we hate.So next time you run into one of us that dosn't know about your life and you just so happen to feel unset because they are addressing your life style remember it is the sin they hate baby, not you.Then the reason why some of those people feel we hate them is due to their feelings toward them self. 9 times out of 10 because of this post one of you will think i hate you or i'm homo bashing.

Your right words do start wars thats because every word has an season.for an wise man says nothing until the Lord thy God tells him to, Even the fool knows when to hold his peace.

Yet it's so funny how you all jump on us but yet you say nothing about the Muslim's who are out recruiting every day(yea. Now thats force)
This fact only makes me see that my God is the true God

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Shalimar_fox
for one my lord was around sinners to bring them the light.lets not talk about force. why is it ok for the Athenis or homosexuals(sorry i had to use that word, but i couldn't think of any other way)to force their believe on us that are sold out for Christ.I mean tell me how is it right for grown(18+)men that like the same sex to yell and curse teenages that range from 13-17. I think you all have it all wrong.It is not you we hate.It is the sin that we hate.So next time you run into one of us that dosn't know about your life and you just so happen to feel unset because they are addressing your life style remember it is the sin they hate baby, not you.Then the reason why some of those people feel we hate them is due to their feelings toward them self. 9 times out of 10 because of this post one of you will think i hate you or i'm homo bashing.

Your right words do start wars thats because every word has an season.for an wise man says nothing until the Lord thy God tells him to, Even the fool knows when to hold his peace.

Yet it's so funny how you all jump on us but yet you say nothing about the Muslim's who are out recruiting every day(yea. Now thats force)
This fact only makes me see that my God is the true God

You may say, you hate the sin, but you still hate.

Zeal Ex Nihilo
"Hate" is only bad in the minds of today. Hate what is evil and love what is righteous--this is virtue.

Shalimar_fox
Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
"Hate" is only bad in the minds of today. Hate what is evil and love what is righteous--this is virtue. yes this is true virtue

How can one say they love if they do not hate. To love justice is to hate injustice. Thus the same is with the Lord. To love the Lord thy God you must Hate any and all acts of wickness

Mark Question
Why's that? God is not benevolent.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
"Hate" is only bad in the minds of today. Hate what is evil and love what is righteous--this is virtue.

Hate only leads to evil.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Shalimar_fox
yes this is true virtue

How can one say they love if they do not hate. To love justice is to hate injustice. Thus the same is with the Lord. To love the Lord thy God you must Hate any and all acts of wickness

But hate always leads to injustice. Hitler hated the Jews; the Islamic terrorists on 9-11 hated America.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Hate only leads to evil. You base this on absolutely nothing I assume.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
You this on absolutely nothing I assume.

confused Are you missing a few words?

Nellinator
Nope.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
You base this on absolutely nothing I assume.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
...Hitler hated the Jews; the Islamic terrorists on 9-11 hated America.

Nellinator
You consider that enough for a massive generalization?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
You consider that enough for a massive generalization?

No. I understand that Christianity is based on a level of rationalized hate, however, Buddhism is not based on hate. We will never agree because you have been brainwashed to believe that hate is good. This is how war is waged. Hate is a tool used by the Christian church to destroy their enemies.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No. I understand that Christianity is based on a level of rationalized hate, however, Buddhism is not based on hate. Hate is a tool used by the Christian church to destroy their enemies. No, it is not at all actually. And no it isn't. It was a sad consequence of power. And it was never their tool, they had many other means than hatred.

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No. I understand that Christianity is based on a level of rationalized hate, however, Buddhism is not based on hate. We will never agree because you have been brainwashed to believe that hate is good. This is how war is waged. Hate is a tool used by the Christian church to destroy their enemies.

What do you mean by "rationalized hate"?

SpearofDestiny
He is correct. Hatred only leads to hostility and thus violence.


You can love without Hate, and you can hate without love, even though the majority of us are filled with both. Buddhism teaches that "repugnance" -hatred- is the root to all war. We are taught not to hate suffering either. Instead of feeling bad and stressed over the reality of suffering in this world, we are taught to focus on cessation of suffering, and the manifestation of joy we wish to provide ourselves and others.

Mark Question
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
What do you mean by "rationalized hate"?

Puritanism?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
What do you mean by "rationalized hate"?

This is what I mean by rationalized hate:

Originally posted by Shalimar_fox
...How can one say they love if they do not hate. To love justice is to hate injustice. Thus the same is with the Lord. To love the Lord thy God you must Hate any and all acts of wickness

Shalimar_fox
Please. use logic. it's like good & evil.how can you know good if there's no evil.Then i forgot your kind is into the world things that you can see & try's to base an idea on complete false hood. We that believe in the Lord base our ideas on the spirit realm for we walk not after the flesh but of the spirit, we live not be bread alone but by every word the comes from the mouth of the living God. how can we rationalize hate? Is it not written thy shall love thy enemy,to pray and do kind unto them.Yet if your purpose for this is that we all do not tdo this then let me stop you right now, for we our sinners also, for it is written all have fallen short of the glory.like your Lord Jesus we come not to judge you less we be judged

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Shalimar_fox
Please. use logic. it's like good & evil.how can you know good if there's no evil.Then i forgot your kind is into the world things that you can see & try's to base an idea on complete false hood. We that believe in the Lord base our ideas on the spirit realm for we walk not after the flesh but of the spirit, we live not be bread alone but by every word the comes from the mouth of the living God. how can we rationalize hate? Is it not written thy shall love thy enemy,to pray and do kind unto them.Yet if your purpose for this is that we all do not tdo this then let me stop you right now, for we our sinners also, for it is written all have fallen short of the glory.like your Lord Jesus we come not to judge you less we be judged

You need to get out more.

I don't know what you mean by "your kind", but if you are talking about me, I would bet you don't know what religion I am.

You seem to talk like your trying to quote the bible, but not quite. If you wish other people to understand what you are talking about, try plane English.

I personally do not believe in the supernatural, but if you can imperially prove a spirit realm, I'll listen.

Shalimar_fox
First of i was not talking to you.

animals have an soul,so they feel emotions like we do but what makes us different is we have an spirit which gives us reason before we act.

As for you.you need to build up your faith.Did you always not belive in my God or did you turn away from him

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Shalimar_fox
First of i was not talking to you.

animals have an soul,so they feel emotions like we do but what makes us different is we have an spirit which gives us reason before we act.

As for you.you need to build up your faith.Did you always not belive in my God or did you turn away from him

Sorry, I thought you were talking to me.

1. Humans are animals.

2. God is not a "he".

3. My faith is stronger then it has ever been. I do not need blind faith, I see my practice work in my life every day.

4. I used to be a Christian, but the evil people in the church, and the cult like aspects of the particular church I was in, made me realize that the truth was nowhere to be seen. I spent many years looking, and then I found the greatest religion for me.

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Shakyamunison

3. My faith is stronger then it has ever been. I do not need blind faith, I see my practice work in my life every day.


How does it work in your everyday life? What do you see?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
How does it work in your everyday life? What do you see?

I chant every morning and evening, and study all the time. It is like adding stand into a pot one grain at a time. Before long the pot is full.

OK that was the abstract answer, here is the straight answer. Before I started my practice, I had problems with people at work and in my life. I am not a very good communicator. My thinking is very abstract. It helps me at my job, but interpersonal communication has always been difficult for me. Once I started to chant and study, I begin to see things in my life differently. I started seeing the things in my life that were hurting me. Once I could take responsibility for all things in my life (one of the main steps in my practice), I was able to change myself so that these things did not bother me. For example; my boss at the time, suffered from back pain, and that made him treat me bad. But I could never see the pain in his eyes because I was too busy suffering under him. Once I realized his pain, my pain went away. I changed myself, and then when he got upset with me, I understood and had compassion.

Over time, I have changed, and I get along with people who I could never get along with before. Also, I am a lot happier now and people tell me that I always have a positive attitude. When change happens in my life, I can face that challenge with a courage that I never thought I had.

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
My thinking is very abstract.

You're telling me.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison

Over time, I have changed, and I get along with people who I could never get along with before. Also, I am a lot happier now and people tell me that I always have a positive attitude. When change happens in my life, I can face that challenge with a courage that I never thought I had.

That sounded like an AA commercial to me.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
You're telling me.



That sounded like an AA commercial to me.

laughing Whatever works, works. wink

SpearofDestiny
True that son, True that

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
laughing Whatever works, works. wink

So when did you kick the habit?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
So when did you kick the habit?

laughing Are you really asking me that? I drink maybe one beer a week, at the most. Do you think I have a problem. confused stick out tongue

Quiero Mota
It was a joke in reference to my AA commercial comment.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
It was a joke in reference to my AA commercial comment.

I got it, and ran with it. Remember I still have room to improve on the communication issue. wink

Shalimar_fox
I would love to end this topic in te right way but someone else needs my focus in this life.Love ya.have an good day.

by the way SpearofDestiny is that an lion cub on your sig

Quark_666
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Once I started to chant and study, I begin to see things in my life differently. I started seeing the things in my life that were hurting me.

Maybe you can help me with my life. Do you think the chanting voices that hurt me can be insightful if I chant back at them? laughing out loud

Sorry, I really do respect your experience, I just have to poke fun at people sometimes. Especially abstract people.

Quark_666
Originally posted by Shalimar_fox
I would love to end this topic in te right way

sounds like confidence...

Originally posted by Shalimar_fox
but someone else needs my focus in this life.

sounds like convenience. Same thing I guess laughing

But I guess I have to agree it isn't a good idea to spend forever on this site.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Quark_666
Maybe you can help me with my life. Do you think the chanting voices that hurt me can be insightful if I chant back at them? laughing out loud

Sorry, I really do respect your experience, I just have to poke fun at people sometimes. Especially abstract people.

stick out tongue Try chanting, maybe it will help you with your impulses. laughing

leonheartmm
chanting seals your soul, its been medically proven.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by leonheartmm
chanting seals your soul, its been medically proved.

There is no proof of a soul, so how can anything having to do with the soul be medically proved?

leonheartmm
ermm, i was JOKING. stick out tongue

i thought the term MEDICALLY and SOUL with an icing of PROVEN wudv screamed that out. big grin

chickenlover98
i love how no one can accept their precious "god" as an *******.

god: im going to give you paradise, but if you break this rule which i set(which i KNOW your going to) then you and the rest of your kin for the rest of eternity can live a life of misery.

MrCampion
That of course is from your own point of view. Mine is that if you knew anything of the concept of God, it is that while mortal life is filled with pain as well as pleasure, the afterlife is intended to be true Paradise. That is why he sent Jesus Christ into the world, to redeem us so we can avoid living in misery for eternity.

Or are you going to call me a rude name again for stating my opinion?

Nellinator
Originally posted by MrCampion
Or are you going to call me a rude name again for stating my opinion? Don't have a persecution complex please.

Quark_666
Originally posted by leonheartmm
ermm, i was JOKING. stick out tongue

i thought the term MEDICALLY and SOUL with an icing of PROVEN wudv screamed that out. big grin

I thought it was pretty funny!

Quark_666
Originally posted by chickenlover98
god: im going to give you paradise, but if you break this rule which i set(which i KNOW your going to) then you and the rest of your kin for the rest of eternity can live a life of misery.

You are correct that according to most significant Christian religions, God gives people commandments that he knows they will break...many times. But if all your assumptions on Christianity were correct, the crucifixion of Christ wouldn't be viewed as anything more then another historical tragedy. As it is, Christ's death is the most significant part of every Christian religion because it signifies that Christ was willing to take the sufferings of all mankind upon himself...including punishments (on the condition that his sacrifice is accepted on an individual level).

Whether you believe it or not, you can't pretend that Christians believe in a God that is secretly conspiring to send them to hell.

Nellinator
The resurrection is generally held to be more important, though they kinda go hand in hand.

chickenlover98
bumpity bump

chickenlover98
epic revival time

Quark_666
Originally posted by chickenlover98
epic revival time

Wow this thread is from forever ago. I don't think I really feel like responding to anybody except myself (yes I'm copying wrathfuldwarf cause i think it's a sweet idea!!!)...

Originally posted by Quark_666
Whether you believe it or not, you can't pretend that Christians believe in a God that is secretly conspiring to send them to hell.

Naw, he isn't trying to make it a secret. He says it all over the place in the Bible.

Originally posted by Quark_666
Naw, he isn't trying to make it a secret. He says it all over the place in the Bible.

Are you referring to all those "if" statements? Our destruction is conditional.

Originally posted by Quark_666
Are you referring to all those "if" statements? Our destruction is conditional.

Conditional upon us being something other than human. We're are enemies of God from the moment we are born.

Originally posted by Quark_666
Conditional upon us being something other than human. We're are enemies of God from the moment we are born.


No, not till years later. Little children are alive in Christ.

Originally posted by Quark_666
No, not till years later. Little children are alive in Christ.

Alive in something. Ever been babysitting?

Originally posted by Quark_666
Alive in something. Ever been babysitting?

Okay, I'm tired of arguing with this idiot. Somebody else say something.

chickenlover98
ok gods a dick for condemning people to suffer

Quark_666
Originally posted by chickenlover98
ok gods a dick for condemning people to suffer

What a lazy post.

chickenlover98
Originally posted by Quark_666
What a lazy post. im a lazy guy wink

willofthewisp
How is God a dick?

You have to look at it from a parent/child perspective. The parent loves his/her kid very very much, gave them life, and takes the proper steps to see to it the child grows.

Then one day they go to the grocery store and the kid goes nuts, opening packages, breaking bottles...doing all the things the store rules said not to do. The parent decides to discipline the child and puts them in time out.

Is the parent a dick for making it very clear to the child that wrong things were done? Chickenlover, you seem to think humans are this very innocent, flawless kind of people. Even before we had sin, with just Adam and Eve, they were stupidly naive and gullible. God said "don't eat from that tree." Yet as soon as someone else says to go ahead, they do it. The phrase, "But my God said no" goes out the window.

So going back to the story, the parent did not set the child up to fail. The child, through ignorance, being naive, or whatever, had the free will to do bad things and the parent was disappointed. Never once does the parent hurt the child or seem to take satisfaction in their suffering.

The people (and God) that love us always want us to do better, to strive for improvement. We're going to fail, but that doesn't mean we can't try to be a little more like what God wants us to be.

chickenlover98
Originally posted by willofthewisp
How is God a dick?

You have to look at it from a parent/child perspective. The parent loves his/her kid very very much, gave them life, and takes the proper steps to see to it the child grows.

Then one day they go to the grocery store and the kid goes nuts, opening packages, breaking bottles...doing all the things the store rules said not to do. The parent decides to discipline the child and puts them in time out.

Is the parent a dick for making it very clear to the child that wrong things were done? Chickenlover, you seem to think humans are this very innocent, flawless kind of people. Even before we had sin, with just Adam and Eve, they were stupidly naive and gullible. God said "don't eat from that tree." Yet as soon as someone else says to go ahead, they do it. The phrase, "But my God said no" goes out the window.

So going back to the story, the parent did not set the child up to fail. The child, through ignorance, being naive, or whatever, had the free will to do bad things and the parent was disappointed. Never once does the parent hurt the child or seem to take satisfaction in their suffering.

The people (and God) that love us always want us to do better, to strive for improvement. We're going to fail, but that doesn't mean we can't try to be a little more like what God wants us to be.

of course god set us up to fail. if you acknoledge that god is all knowing, then he knows the fture. he already knew the serpent would tell adam and eve to eat the fruit. he fortold it seeing as he is omniscient. therefor free will is negated with knowledge.

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