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Any one else here following a green path?

I personally have had a great fascination with Wicca, an until-now, very closetted religion.


They basically worship the Earth- The God and the Goddess, two elemental forces of Nature, which are supposedly redundant in all aspects of the Universe. Thier beleifs are very similar to Native American paganism.


Supposedly, witches claim that thier religion goes back 50,000 years (well, from what I have heard, nothing I have officially found to be fact).


I do love and admire the religion, however.

isn't green the colour of islam?

omg, i just broke it wide open, Islam is paganism, thats it, im a christian.

Originally posted by inimalist
isn't green the colour of islam?

omg, i just broke it wide open, Islam is paganism, thats it, im a christian.



Both Islam and Christianity find thier roots in Paganism + Judaism.

thankyou for that insight but I was being serious lol

I'm in a state of transition and wish to disguss it with others who have similar experience.

the facts are the facts but we are here in the present and not in the past no offence to any one.

Originally posted by Lara
thankyou for that insight but I was being serious lol

I'm in a state of transition and wish to disguss it with others who have similar experience.

the facts are the facts but we are here in the present and not in the past no offence to any one.

OK, what is a green path?

I like to follow my own path. Not be part of someone else's thoughts or ideas.

nm

Originally posted by Lara
thankyou for that insight but I was being serious lol

I'm in a state of transition and wish to disguss it with others who have similar experience.

the facts are the facts but we are here in the present and not in the past no offence to any one.

maybe ask something a little less ambigious than "anyone else on a green path" under the title "paganism"

well paganism and wicca come under many titles by many ppl.

I'm currently stil searching for my specific path on the pagan route but am in the process of setting up my altar and was wondering if there was any one else here that has any advice they could give me as to wether equipment has to specific or is ok to be adjusted to other objects at hand
and to the placement of the items on the altar.

thats all

When I first stopped being a christian I actually looked into wicca. I never practiced any of the spells or whatever because I have never believed in magic, but it does put forth a really nice metaphor about the world and how to treat eachother.

I don't like how it was started and marketed in the 70s though...

Most religions can have some beautiful and relevant metaphors for our lives and struggles, and paganism is no exception. I don't know anyone who actually believes in pagan gods (except Christians...Zing!) or that the magic stuff is real (it's usually a combination of chemistry for concoctions, self-fulfilling prophecies, self-delusion, and selective interpretation and confirmation bias into believing the results of "magic" but there's obviously an appeal to it.

Had I not found science and reason while searching for new stuff, I'd likely have ended up as a flower child following the principles of the forest god Artemis...or something similarly ridiculous. Harmless and quaint, but nothing that's any better than any of the other myths and practices in various religions.

the road to a multi leafed plant ? http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/images/cannabis.jpg

pmsl

Originally posted by Lara
thankyou for that insight but I was being serious lol



1) So was I


2) Wiccans don't beleive in "real" magic, but they do beleive in the God and Goddess, they do beleive in Reincarnation, they do beleive in the power of Earth and the Moon.

It's more of a discipline than a manifesto of spells. People tend to get Wicca confused with "black magic", voodoo, and the like. But Wicca isn't related.

The most similar beleif system to Wicca would be Native American paganism.

Originally posted by Lara
Any one else here following a green path?

My path is plated with Titanium.

I've been a Pagan for many years.... but our form of "paganism" is not as green as a lot of the others.... a number of modern pagan movements (and yes, I include wicca and druidism in amongst them) are preoccupied with environmental issues, and could be classed as green movements rather than religious groups... the form of paganism I follow, sometimes called Asatru or Odinism, is one of the older pagan groups... worshipped from at least the fifth century ad up until the 15th century in europe, and surviving in Iceland and Greenland up to the present day (along with Christianity, it is the official religion of Iceland) we are concerned more with bravery, honesty and wisdom... our gods are numerous, and as fallible as us... while our ideals of honour stop most of us from raping the land and sea (Odin tells us that a good man leaves places so that he is welcome to return) we are far from being an environmental group.... which has brought us into conflict with neo-pagan groups... we are far more confrontational than they are, and more likely to stand up and fight than sit down and protest.... despite their occasional animosity towards us, we staunchly defend other pagans against the forces that rail against them.. a lot of pagans don't seem to understand how we can be pagan and warlike... most people do have this stereotypical view of pagans as tree hugging hippys and wispy witches.... but thats noit us.... history shows that pagan religions were never like that... it was the Victorian "druids" who began that.... remember, some of us still mourn the loss of human sacrifice... i know of plenty of people who should fly to Odin on the wings of the bloody eagle!! Despite the outcry from many pagan groups about the film "The Wicker Man" that film is closer to true paganism than Wicca.... and to be honest, I could see no problem with the way of life on the island (and I'm talking mainly about the original, rather than the Nic Cage one) other than the fact that the sacrifice should have been voluntary or of a criminal... hope this helps....ps.. if going into Wicca (which is just as valid a choice as any) remember that tools found intuitively or in a strange manner are far more powerful than any others.... regardless of what the shopkeeper tells you, a red handled knife found while out on a walk will work better than the most ornate black handled one for $199.99...

thankyou Kirk.

I too believe that you should only take what you need and respect what nature provides and not to take it for granted as many do.
"to live in harmony with nature" rather than "to be in control of nature"

to treat others how I wish to be treated and to leave nature as I found it, love, nurture, provide and care for nature as nature, as nature loves, nurtures, provides and cares for us.

My studies consist of herbalism, aromatherapy, crystals, healing and mediumship. so I'm not part of green peace or anything like that, I believe that you shouldnt force your views upon others.

so there is no problem with using a stainless steel balti dish instead of a proper cauldron then?

Originally posted by Lara
Any one else here following a green path?

Im interested in heathensim Norse paganism but to be quite honest I dont take Wicca serioulsy at all. Its not wrong I just dont like the lack of research.

my friend is pagan....

edit

research into what?

Originally posted by Lara
so there is no problem with using a stainless steel balti dish instead of a proper cauldron then?

none at all.... the tools are symbols... you could technically use a tupperware bowl if you wanted too... as long as you believe it symbolises the earth.... after all, plastic is oil, and oil is a minerl...

Originally posted by anaconda
research into what?

Reaserach into paganism. A bit like you they make sweeping generalisations and its like some stuff is even made up. I saw one site where some wiccan was saying that Skadi was a very dark godess if they had done some research thay would know that she is quite compassionate as well.

who is generalising now?

some stuff made up huh unlike Norse mythology then

It is rather rude to make general statements just because some people may have acted in some particular way.

Originally posted by anaconda
who is generalising now?

some stuff made up huh unlike Norse mythology then

See how you missed the point as usual? What im talking about here is lack of research, this is the reason why they generalise like you. Im qualified to say that they generalise because ive read books, website and spoke to them online doing such things.

When I mean making things up I mean saying their were preistess of Skadi when they're werent any. It could be argued that the godess Skadi is "made up" but she is part of heathen mythology. Its wrong to say this was part of heathen mythology when it wasnt.

Now maybe im wrong but as far as I know this is not true.

Originally posted by Storm
It is rather rude to make general statements just because some people may have acted in some particular way.

Ive read books by wiccans, spoke to many wiccans online read lots of websites by wiccans and all the time there has been an indication of lack of research and basically making stuff up. So its not just some people, thats one of the main reasons why heathens call themslves heathens they want to dissassociate themselves from the pagans.

Now im sure some wiiccans are different but from personal experience this is the impression ive got and its not like I dont have any basis for it. Its not rude to say it ive done alot of research and this seems to be the case.

as Charles Fort said... any belief is merely the proper thing to wear for a while....

Originally posted by Lara
Any one else here following a green path?

What's a green path?

That term reminds me of something else...

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
What's a green path?

That term reminds me of something else...


LMAO


Think Green...if you know what I mean.....

Sorry to keep going on about this but I think I might have comitted a sin. Looking at the evidence there most likely were prietesses of Skadi not might......most likely. I think I may have let me ego get in front of my judgement.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ive read books by wiccans, spoke to many wiccans online read lots of websites by wiccans and all the time there has been an indication of lack of research and basically making stuff up. So its not just some people, thats one of the main reasons why heathens call themslves heathens they want to dissassociate themselves from the pagans.

Now im sure some wiiccans are different but from personal experience this is the impression ive got and its not like I dont have any basis for it. Its not rude to say it ive done alot of research and this seems to be the case.
Not all pagans are wiccans. Pagan is an umbrella term that includes many different spiritual belief systems. Wicca is just one of many. Heathens call themselves heathens because they simply are heathens. If I would tell you that I' m pagan, then I could either be a wiccan, druid, heathen, ...

It' s still rude to make general statements just because you' ve had some bad experiences.

Originally posted by Storm
Not all pagans are wiccans. Pagan is an umbrella term that includes many different spiritual belief systems. Wicca is just one of many.


Yes I know.

Originally posted by Storm

Heathens call themselves heathens because they simply are heathens. If I would tell you that I' m pagan, then I could either be a wiccan, druid, heathen, ...

I dont think thats true. I was on a forum and there was a heathen who specifically said one of the reasons why they call themselves heathens is to seperate themselves from the wiccans. In general the impression I have got from heathens is that they kinda dislike wiccans.... Dont get me wrong heathens dont think wiccans are evil or immoral....just a bit wack.

Originally posted by Storm

It' s still rude to make general statements just because you' ve had some bad experiences.

To an extent im going to have to disagree. It doesnt matter how many people you meet of a certain faith you should always keep in mind that there will be some who are different but at the same time if you have met alot of people of a certain faith and they behave in certain way you need to take that on board. I dont think it was rude I think it was blunt.

Alf:

I'm with you on the Wicca thing. I know that it is a blanket generallization, but I have personally never met any 'serious' Wiccans. My take on it was that, for what I found on the web, lots of christians were pissed off at their religion, so decided that they didn't want to be christian any more, so adopted "opposite" beliefs. The fact that many Wiccans talk about the abuses of Christianity against 'witches' in the middle ages, if feel, supports the idea that these people are just angry individuals who need something to believe. (though, that might just be because that is how I felt when I was looking into Wicca, also Buddhism)

The religion was started in the 70s as a marketing ploy to try and unite all the "ancient" woo knowledge that was making a resurgance in the hippie era.

I know it will come as no surprise to hear me talking smack about paganism, but of all of them, Wicca seems to be so transparent of a scam that it is hard to take it seriously.

Originally posted by inimalist
Alf:

I'm with you on the Wicca thing. I know that it is a blanket generallization, but I have personally never met any 'serious' Wiccans. My take on it was that, for what I found on the web, lots of christians were pissed off at their religion, so decided that they didn't want to be christian any more, so adopted "opposite" beliefs. The fact that many Wiccans talk about the abuses of Christianity against 'witches' in the middle ages, if feel, supports the idea that these people are just angry individuals who need something to believe. (though, that might just be because that is how I felt when I was looking into Wicca, also Buddhism)

As far as I know witch burning happened for a short period of time and relatively few "witches" got killed. It seems to me that this was blown all out of proportion.

Originally posted by inimalist

The religion was started in the 70s as a marketing ploy to try and unite all the "ancient" woo knowledge that was making a resurgance in the hippie era.

I know it will come as no surprise to hear me talking smack about paganism, but of all of them, Wicca seems to be so transparent of a scam that it is hard to take it seriously.

I agree.

Originally posted by Alfheim
As far as I know witch burning happened for a short period of time and relatively few "witches" got killed. It seems to me that this was blown all out of proportion.

lol, not if you are a Wiccan, then you were being oppressed and have yet another thing to say "oh look at how much better than christians we are"

Originally posted by Alfheim
I agree.

I looked some stuff up on Wikipedia (the most trusted name in citations) and I think my dates could be off by 20+ years, although I think the point still stands.

Originally posted by Alfheim
As far as I know witch burning happened for a short period of time and relatively few "witches" got killed. It seems to me that this was blown all out of proportion.

Estimates range from 40,000 to 60,000 people killed across all Europe over an extended period of time.


Wicca was originally founded by Gerald Gardner most likely in the 1940s, first openly revealed in 1954. There' s a lot of information out there on wicca, in books and on the Internet. Not all of it is accurate. You need to separate the wheat from the chaff. If you ask any ten wiccans about their path, you will get at least fifteen different answers.

Wiccans might feel solidarity with the victims of the witch trials, but it' s not a rebellion against Christianity.

Originally posted by Storm
Wiccans might feel solidarity with the victims of the witch trials, but it' s not a rebellion against Christianity.

In some cases

Alfheim is the man, he knows a lot about norse my inherit-age, it is good to see that the old ways dont fade away that people really care about history that concerned our past. Im pleased and proud to see that a Brit take consideration in his time to really study and believe in a way I really thought and considered soly as a scandnavian phenomena good work mate.......doesnt mean you are right though but even so on behalf of Scandinavians Im flattered

Originally posted by anaconda
Alfheim is the man, he knows a lot about norse my inherit-age, it is good to see that the old ways dont fade away that people really care about history that concerned our past. Im pleased and proud to see that a Brit take consideration in his time to really study and believe in a way I really thought and considered soly as a scandnavian phenomena good work mate.......


Well to be fair though The Saxons used to worship the same gods as well. Thunnur is Thor, Woden is Odin so they are part of heathenism as well. So being British and liking heathen lore is not illogical.

The thing is though both my parents are from W.Africa and my blood ancestors were muslim (not particularly interested in that and I know quite a bit about Islam as well). My tribe is Mandingo and some of my ancestors were portugese (nothing to do with slavery they inter-married). I intend to learn more about my African heritage but usually anything to do with Islam puts me right off, its just not for me.

Originally posted by anaconda

doesnt mean you are right though but even so on behalf of Scandinavians Im flattered

Most of the time.

Originally posted by Storm
Estimates range from 40,000 to 60,000 people killed across all Europe over an extended period of time.

Well ok where and what time? The burning time is concerned with England and the middle ages. As far as I know there where witch trials in Denmark and even the vikings killed witches.

Originally posted by Storm

Wicca was originally founded by Gerald Gardner most likely in the 1940s, first openly revealed in 1954. There' s a lot of information out there on wicca, in books and on the Internet. Not all of it is accurate. You need to separate the wheat from the chaff. If you ask any ten wiccans about their path, you will get at least fifteen different answers.

Wiccans might feel solidarity with the victims of the witch trials, but it' s not a rebellion against Christianity.

I hear what your saying but I just think your being PC. Heathens suck as well just differently. Basically humans in general suck but how they suck will depend on their faith etc etc.

Originally posted by inimalist
In some cases
There will always be wiccan dabbles who are in it for show, to make a political statement, to revolt against their parents or to express a dislike of any other religion.


Originally posted by Alfheim
Well ok where and what time? The burning time is concerned with England and the middle ages. As far as I know there where witch trials in Denmark and even the vikings killed witches.
Witchcraft cases increased slowly but steadily from the 14th-15th century. What we think of as the "Burning Times" largely occurred in one century, from 1550-1650. In the 17th century, the great hunt passed, trials dropped sharply after 1650 and disappeared completely by the end of the 18th century.

The trials were concentrated in central Europe, in Germany, Switzerland, and eastern France. The further you got away from that area, the lower the persecution generally got.
Originally posted by Alfheim
I hear what your saying but I just think your being PC. Heathens suck as well just differently. Basically humans in general suck but how they suck will depend on their faith etc etc.
No, it bothers me that you claim to have done "a lot of research" on the subject while you can' t separate the wheat from the chaff.

There are sites floating around the Internet promoting Heathenism as white supremacism. I don' t think you' ll feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that there are people who would regard you as a racist or Neo-nazi. People should make informed decisions, based on multiple perspectives, rather than assume a degree of misinformed prejudice.

Originally posted by Storm


Witchcraft cases increased slowly but steadily from the 14th-15th century. What we think of as the "Burning Times" largely occurred in one century, from 1550-1650. In the 17th century, the great hunt passed, trials dropped sharply after 1650 and disappeared completely by the end of the 18th century.


The trials were concentrated in central Europe, in Germany, Switzerland, and eastern France. The further you got away from that area, the lower the persecution generally got.


Well anyway pagans killed witches and Christians persecuted other Christian sects, so all that proves is that humans like to oppress other humans that they fear or who do not conform to their sense of values. Hell some of the people that got burnt werent even witches.

Originally posted by Storm

No, it bothers me that you claim to have done "a lot of research" on the subject while you can' t separate the wheat from the chaff.


Yeah I can because I know some wiccans have even said that the burning times were blown out of proportion so some wiccans do know their stuff.

Originally posted by Storm

There are sites floating around the Internet promoting Heathenism as white supremacism. I don' t think you' ll feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that there are people who would regard you as a racist or Neo-nazi. People should make informed decisions, based on multiple perspectives, rather than assume a degree of misinformed prejudice.

I dont know any black neo-nazis crylaugh Anyway I get your point ...but heathens suck as well even the non neo-nazis are racist they're called folkists and believe that people who have germanic blood are more suited to heathenism. One heathen had to actually create a forum because I couldnt find any forums were racist heathens were not allowed....so what now?

Are all heathens racist...no. Are alot of heathens racist....from my experience yes....hell if a guy has to actually go to the extent to create a forum because they're are so many racist forums what does that tell you? I suppose I should just be naive and expect that all heathens are beautfiul human beings.....or should I be realistic and when I meet a heathen ask him questions so I can deduce wether hes racist or not?

Anyway in terms of people killed as witches seems I could be wrong about that also ive heard differently from wiccans themselves. Still not changing my opinion on them as a whole but i'll keep an open mind.

*

***You NEVER were a Christian.

Marchello

Proof, evidence? Oh that's right you have nothing once again. Plus, you accomplish nothing with antics such as that. You don't help or insult anyone. You are very insecure to make such assertions and use such rhetoric. You should try doing what the Bible tells you instead of trying to justify your insecurities with theology (which you aren't very good at anyways, though you have arrogantly proven your delusions of grandeur in the matter before).

Originally posted by Marchello
*

***You NEVER were a Christian.

Marchello

well, thank you

I don't really think so either

Originally posted by Nellinator
Proof, evidence? Oh that's right you have nothing once again. Plus, you accomplish nothing with antics such as that. You don't help or insult anyone. You are very insecure to make such assertions and use such rhetoric. You should try doing what the Bible tells you instead of trying to justify your insecurities with theology (which you aren't very good at anyways, though you have arrogantly proven your delusions of grandeur in the matter before).

***"They went OUT from us, but they were NOT OF us; for if they had been OF US, they would NO DOUBT have CONTINUED with us: but they WENT OUT, that they might be made MANIFEST that they were NOT ALL OF us. But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and YE KNOW ALL THINGS." .

Marchello

That verse twould only be relevant if one took it out of its context, ie. who was being specifically address (hint: it's not just antichrists either, but specific type).

*

***False teachers are also false believers...and the ONLY difference between them and false congregational believers is that they are in positions of authority but unbelievers nonetheless. These false teachers...anti-christs and their followers left...proving that they NEVER really belonged among the Christians in the first place...they were NEVER true believers. If they had been true believers, John stated, "they would have stayed"...but they left.

John faced the false believers head-on by telling the true believers that the Holy Spirit has come upon them and they know the truth. The Holy Spirit has been given to believers by the Father and the Son and promised by Jesus . When a person becomes a Christian, he/she receives the Holy Spirit . What John is doing here is comparing the believers with the ones who had left the fellowship...thus proving that they NEVER belonged there. They did not receive Jesus Christ as Saviour...so they did not receive the Holy Spirit...they were not "born again" .

Marchello

So close at the beginning, but it is dealing only with false teachers. Those that came amongst the Christians for credibility, but went out because they disagreed, not because they changed their minds, hence they were "never of us" because they were never in line in the first place.

There are many children that accept Jesus as their Saviour and later change their mind and reject the Holy Spirit that they had received.

This is why John says:

"But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him." - 1 John 2:5

This something we can see in many believers that have been led astray, which is evidence, though not proof.

"Those who guide this people mislead them, and those who are guided are led astray." - Isaiah 9:16

"Among the prophets of Samaria I saw this repulsive thing: They prophesied by Baal and led my people Israel astray." - Jeremiah 23:13

These makes clear the difference between the two. Those led astray were clearly still saved, but in error as evidenced by Barnabas (Galatians 2:13) and Eve (2 Corinthians 11:3). Being led astray as many are is very very different from not ever being a Christian.

This is why John says:

"But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him." - 1 John 2:5

This something we can see in many believers that have been led astray, which is evidence, though not proof.

Hey this is a thread about paganism......

Originally posted by Alfheim
Hey this is a thread about paganism...... True enough.

I've always been interested in the various Scandinavian mythologies, probably J.R.R. Tolkien that got me on that train.

Wicca is a religion I'll never understand though. It seems to me that it's a very watered down and rather muddled belief system. Why the people that follow it don't look deeper is beyond my understanding.

Originally posted by Nellinator
True enough.

I've always been interested in the various Scandinavian mythologies, probably J.R.R. Tolkien that got me on that train.

Wicca is a religion I'll never understand though. It seems to me that it's a very watered down and rather muddled belief system. Why the people that follow it don't look deeper is beyond my understanding.
Look out, here comes the Shakya train.

Anyway, from what I've read, Wicca is like "OMG paganism except for the 21st century. Also, we get to talk about the 'Goddess.'"

Or, as our good buddy TheAmazingAtheist said: "Paganism is a religion for people who are literally too stupid for Christianity."

Originally posted by Nellinator


Wicca is a religion I'll never understand though. It seems to me that it's a very watered down and rather muddled belief system. Why the people that follow it don't look deeper is beyond my understanding.

Yeah but when a religon is a mixture of everything it becomes hard to do even if you wanted to. All religons have "foreign" elements to it but you can at least make a good effort in tracing back the roots.

Aflemmmm.......give it a break.

You don't understand the dynamics of progressions in relation to believes. If, however, you are studying a certain believe to the core, because you want to be genuine, then it's best, as with all believe to study it back to its roots. If not, then you are ingaging in the flattery's of New Believes.........Nothing really wrong with that, but YOU need to except that you are not entirely a TRUE worshipper of the original religions. If this is so, then you must ask yourself, ...WHY... why did you reject all the aspects of your old religion....

Originally posted by debbiejo
Aflemmmm.......give it a break.

Awww bless.

Originally posted by debbiejo

You don't understand the dynamics of progressions in relation to believes.

Well as I said every religon has aspects of other religons in them for example Islam has judaism and Chrisanity.


Originally posted by debbiejo

If, however, you are studying a certain believe to the core, because you want to be genuine, then it's best, as with all believe to study it back to its roots.

Which is what im doing..........

Originally posted by debbiejo

If not, then you are ingaging in the flattery's of New Believes.........Nothing really wrong with that, but YOU need to except that you are not entirely a TRUE worshipper of the original religions.

not sure what you're getting at here I could say that the Vikings were not the true worshippers of the original relgion because they're religon was different from how it was portrayed in the rig vedas.

Originally posted by debbiejo

If this is so, then you must ask yourself, ...WHY... why did you reject all the aspects of your old religion....

Well what do you mean by my old relgion? Chrisanity, Islam, Paganism? My parents are Christian, my ancestors were muslim and before that they were pagans....so which one is my true religon?

Anyway monotheism doesnt appeal to me neither does Arabic culture.

I had no idea that this would get blown out of proportion!

I meant "green path" as in care for nature and she'll care for you same respect wise.

the big difference between wiccan and other pagan faiths is that wicca is more pronounced more accentuated and follows the modern path but still has its basis in mythology.

The deities chosen by individuals or groups are done so for personal relation, interpretation and needs.
The path is about nature and wisdom, its a learning phase which you take at your own pace starting where ever you want it to. there is so much information out there that no one could ever possibly learn it all so if it appears that there are gaps in some ppls research its not a big issue.

I myself am leaning towards the healing side of the craft. meditation, herbalism, crystals, auras, dreams, mediumship and of course the list wouldnt be complete with out some for of divination, but again there are quite a few of those and at the moment all i have discovered is that tarot is not for me lol. I am not however planning to interpret animal entrails lol.

I can admit quite freely that if i have to kill what i eat I would without a doubt be a veggie lol I just cant do it, cliche I know but its not in my nature lol