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Religion spends a lot of time reacting out of apparent fear. Rather than simply and confidently laying out a positive program of beliefs, too often religion is more concerned with raising an alarm over alleged dangers lying in wait all around us.

Not all religions use threats, divine or otherwise, in their attempts to enforce particular moral codes but it’ s certainly a common phenomenon. Shouldn’ t religion focus on the ideals of adhering to moral codes out of a sense of decency and love, rather than out of a fear of hell? Fortunately some do adopt this strategy, many others though don’ t seem to recognize the problem.

Perhaps threats and fear must be attractive to some people because otherwise, these religious groups would disappear.

Originally posted by Storm
Religion spends a lot of time reacting out of apparent fear. Rather than simply and confidently laying out a positive program of beliefs, too often religion is more concerned with raising an alarm over alleged dangers lying in wait all around us.

Not all religions use threats, divine or otherwise, in their attempts to enforce particular moral codes but it’ s certainly a common phenomenon. Shouldn’ t religion focus on the ideals of adhering to moral codes out of a sense of decency and love, rather than out of a fear of hell? Fortunately some do adopt this strategy, many others though don’ t seem to recognize the problem.

Perhaps threats and fear must be attractive to some people because otherwise, these religious groups would disappear.
I was actually going to make a thread on this, so you saved me the trouble. I don't mean to derail the thread, but here's my take on it:

A lot of people accuse Christianity of using hell as a "fear tactic" to manipulate people into becoming Christian. The only problem with this is that hell really isn't described. All we know about hell is that it's very dark and burning hot--and people might have an unquenchable thirst.

Now, if I were going to invent something to scare people, I'd make hell just a tad more descriptive. Personally, I'd include the following:

--Being flayed alive.
--Being branded with hot pokers.
--Being raped; being sodomized with large, spikey instruments.
--Having one's bones broken.
--Having ants continually gnaw on one's skin; having them crawl up into the body and eating it from the inside out; having them flood into one's mouth and nose and then having them eat the eyes.
--Being vivisected.
--Being subjected to medieval torture devices (such as the breast ripper).
--Having salt, lemon juice, and excrement poured on one's wounds.
--Continually dying of thirst, starvation, and suffocation all at once.
--Having one's fingernails and toenails ripped out with pliers.
--Being forced to eat feces and dirt.
--Reliving the worst moment's of one's life (traumatic, humiliating, etc.).
--Having white-hot spikes jammed into one's soles.
--Being dismembered.
--Being forced into sexual encounters with someone revolting, finding it pleasurable, and then experiencing the shame following it.
--Etc.

And that all would happen at once, forever and ever, hallelujah.

Now, doesn't the Christian hell sound tame in comparison? "Uh...it's dark and hot."

So, yeah. Hell fails as a sufficient scare tactic.

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
So, yeah. Hell fails as a sufficient scare tactic.

Yeah, Hell fails for you. But there are a lot of members of your religion that don't know any better. If anything, Hell is the basis for a lot of selfish motivation.

As for the thread topic, yes religions use scare tactics. Religions are founded on the principle that one man, more than any other, knows the answers to the questions we all have about death. It's pretty much a racket.

So was there a point to Zeal's list of nasty stuff? Seemed like just a weak excuse to make a list of random tortures, most of which weren't really original or funny.

I don't think Buddhism is a basis of fear.

Most aren't, but it's certainly part of it. Even ones that employ fear, like Christianity....you won't find many Christians who believe what they do out of fear. At least not anymore. Maybe during the Middle Ages and such it would've been different.

We're so independant in society these days that if someone tries to tell us that we're going to hell if we don't do certain things, the most likely response is something akin to "Screw that guy. I'm a good person and I don't need a hypocritical priest telling me what to follow." Thus, even if they belive in heaven/hell, the religion has to be packaged as more relevant to current life and less harsh.

You still have "Hell is REAL!!" priests that thump their chests in fear in otherwise docile sects (I've known a couple in my former religious life) but they're in the minority. Most are big on "Here's how you can live the Gospel in your everyday life..." Helpful for believers, but a necessary transition to the now-minded public and "12-steps to a perfect life" mentality that has seeped into the culture.

Originally posted by Storm
Religion spends a lot of time reacting out of apparent fear. Rather than simply and confidently laying out a positive program of beliefs, too often religion is more concerned with raising an alarm over alleged dangers lying in wait all around us.

Not all religions use threats, divine or otherwise, in their attempts to enforce particular moral codes but it’ s certainly a common phenomenon. Shouldn’ t religion focus on the ideals of adhering to moral codes out of a sense of decency and love, rather than out of a fear of hell? Fortunately some do adopt this strategy, many others though don’ t seem to recognize the problem.


I never saw it as fear. But more like a warning...fear is more like the reaction rather than the message. Since I'm not a bible quoter there is a passage somewhere in revelations in which it declares let the sinner continue doing sin and the righteous do the right. I feel that's pretty much a choice you've been given.

Using metaphor....when you drive down the road..you see a warning sign. Do you act skeptical and say..."Oh, it's probably already clear by the time I get there. I will just continue to drive in this road" Or do you accept the warning sign and decide to proceed with caution or even take a different route? You're the driver of the vehicle it's your safety and perhaps the safety of others. What's the right call in your opinion?

Originally posted by Storm

Perhaps threats and fear must be attractive to some people because otherwise, these religious groups would disappear.

Maybe to some...for myself I can say that it isn't fear or worries that make religion attractive. It is their deities and universal love and also literature that attracks me.

"Believe what I believe or you will be butt****ed by a demon in a pit of fire for all eternity, God loves you, though."

Yeah, I want in on that religion.

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Hell fails as a sufficient scare tactic.


In the Bible, Hell is described as "eternal torment". And there are many descriptive tortures in the Books of Revelations.

It certainly is a scare tactic, but it fails for me, since I do not beleive in any of that crap

Originally posted by DigiMark007
So was there a point to Zeal's list of nasty stuff? Seemed like just a weak excuse to make a list of random tortures, most of which weren't really original or funny.
Um...I wasn't trying to evoke a response or be creative. I was just saying that, were hell a "scare tactic" used to convert others, it wouldn't be a very good one.
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
In the Bible, Hell is described as "eternal torment". And there are many descriptive tortures in the Books of Revelations.

It certainly is a scare tactic, but it fails for me, since I do not beleive in any of that crap
*Sighs.*

Yes, hell is described as eternal torment. But which sounds worse, "dark and burny" or the list of things I described?

Also, there are no descriptions of torture in Revelation. Please do your research before making retarded claims.

as of one of the so called prophets here is a song for him/her it? that?

I saw you sittin' there
I was tryin' not to stare
I wasn't sure if it was you
I didn't know just what to do


Are you drinkin' with me Jesus
I can't see you very clear
Are you drinkin' with me Jesus
Would you buy a friend a beer

As I nestled on my barstool
I felt your warmness within
I looked down at my pants
That wasn't warmness
I wet myself again



Does your head pound, Jesus
As hung over you do rise
How does paradise look, Jesus
Through holy bloodshot eyes

Should we take a cab home Jesus
Man, we can hoof it from here
I know you can walk on the water
But can you walk on this much beer

Are you drinkin' with me Jesus
I can't see you very clear

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Um...I wasn't trying to evoke a response or be creative. I was just saying that, were hell a "scare tactic" used to convert others, it wouldn't be a very good one.

*Sighs.*

Yes, hell is described as eternal torment. But which sounds worse, "dark and burny" or the list of things I described?

Also, there are no descriptions of torture in Revelation. Please do your research before making retarded claims.





Feceman, you became far more obnoxious than ever before. You would think someone who had so much Faith in thier religion would be ..i dunno...happier.



We have discussed Hell before.


"Lake of Fire" "Eternal Torment" "Gnashing of Teeth" ...please do not try to minimize the Biblical version of Hell. It is eternal suffering. That is enough of a scare tactic


It simply doesn't work. No one buys it.

I always figured that if people actually fully believed their religion, they'd be pious as all hell because they have eternity to enjoy the rewards. The lack of this ascetic existence in mainstream religions speaks to the lack of true faith.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Feceman, you became far more obnoxious than ever before. You would think someone who had so much Faith in thier religion would be ..i dunno...happier.
Christianity is a burden, a burden that people like you make heavier each passing day.

"Lake of fire" is a description of hell; "gnashing of teeth" describes the reactions of the people in hell (don't forget the wailing). These are not descriptions of torture.

Originally posted by BackFire
"Believe what I believe or you will be butt****ed by a demon in a pit of fire for all eternity, God loves you, though."

Yeah, I want in on that religion. It's the stick and carrot brainwashing used on animals.

Do as I say, you will have pleasure. Don't do as I say, you will have pain.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Most aren't, but it's certainly part of it. Even ones that employ fear, like Christianity....you won't find many Christians who believe what they do out of fear. At least not anymore. Maybe during the Middle Ages and such it would've been different.

We're so independant in society these days that if someone tries to tell us that we're going to hell if we don't do certain things, the most likely response is something akin to "Screw that guy. I'm a good person and I don't need a hypocritical priest telling me what to follow." Thus, even if they belive in heaven/hell, the religion has to be packaged as more relevant to current life and less harsh.

You still have "Hell is REAL!!" priests that thump their chests in fear in otherwise docile sects (I've known a couple in my former religious life) but they're in the minority. Most are big on "Here's how you can live the Gospel in your everyday life..." Helpful for believers, but a necessary transition to the now-minded public and "12-steps to a perfect life" mentality that has seeped into the culture. I agree fear is a big part, however, it is possible to have a religion that makes people believe without the use of fear. Buddhism probably is, but I'm not entirely sure.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I always figured that if people actually fully believed their religion, they'd be pious as all hell because they have eternity to enjoy the rewards. The lack of this ascetic existence in mainstream religions speaks to the lack of true faith.

correct. i have seen so many people who do things that do not fully relate to their religion. if you truly believed would you not devote ur entire life to the church?

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Christianity is a burden,



I'll say


Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
a burden that people like you make heavier each passing day.


This again ? You not taking responsibility for your own frustration ?


It's not really a "Christian" ideal to blame others for your own problems.



Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
"Lake of fire" is a description of hell; "gnashing of teeth" describes the reactions of the people in hell (don't forget the wailing). These are not descriptions of torture.


"Lake of Fire" sounds pretty torturous.

"Eternal Torment" sounds kinda torturous.


Hell in itself sounds kind of threatening and unpleasant. Seems like a scare tactic to me

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
This again ? You not taking responsibility for your own frustration ?

I always enjoy calling atheism my "cross that I bear." Tasteless? Depends on the audience. But I love a good ironic twist of phrase.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I always enjoy calling atheism my "cross that I bear." Tasteless? Depends on the audience. But I love a good ironic twist of phrase.




I just thought Feceman was smarter than this. Something must have happened, because he is far more nasty, obnoxious, and disrespectful than ever before.

He is either very angry or simply doesn't care anymore. Either way, his "serious" posts are tasteless.

Originally posted by Storm
Religion spends a lot of time reacting out of apparent fear. Rather than simply and confidently laying out a positive program of beliefs, too often religion is more concerned with raising an alarm over alleged dangers lying in wait all around us.

Not all religions use threats, divine or otherwise, in their attempts to enforce particular moral codes but it’ s certainly a common phenomenon. Shouldn’ t religion focus on the ideals of adhering to moral codes out of a sense of decency and love, rather than out of a fear of hell? Fortunately some do adopt this strategy, many others though don’ t seem to recognize the problem.

Perhaps threats and fear must be attractive to some people because otherwise, these religious groups would disappear.

Fear can be construed as a primary motivation for most things. However, I don't think you can make the argument that its a primary or dominant motivation.

Originally posted by Alliance
Fear can be construed as a primary motivation for most things. However, I don't think you can make the argument that its a primary or dominant motivation.

then how would you say religion was introduced? fear. believe in god and your soul will be saved. otherwise we will torture you here and you will be condemned to hell. sounds PRETTY much like fear is involved

Thats retarded.

If you look at the worlds oldest religions (traditional animisms) you can make the logical guess that humans invented religion by extrapolating a general sense of awe to an explanitory power.

^^ What Alliance said. Myths originated to explain natural phenomenon, and other times to act as guidance for life's struggles or simply provide entertainment.

Awe generally includes an amount of fear (like watching a tornado tear up a house), so it's not surprising that fear worked it's way into the stories of the gods. But it's far from the only motivation.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
This again ? You not taking responsibility for your own frustration ?

It's not really a "Christian" ideal to blame others for your own problems.

Honesty is a Christian ideal. Ergo, I honestly place the blame where it honestly belongs.

"Lake" = noun.
+ "Of fire" = modifier.
______________________
No description of torture.

"Torment" = noun.
+ "Eternal" = modifier.
______________________
No description of torture.

Like I said, it's not a very good one--if it is at all.

Are you actually breaking down "eternal torment" into word parts and trying to argue that it doesn't imply torture?! Common sense should slap that argument off the page.

Semantic meanderings aside, it obviously implies suffering and pain of some kind, even if it isn't a traditional torturer/victim scenario.

Nuurh. I was rebutting Urizen's claim that "there are many descriptive tortures in the Books of Revelations ."

Ah. I guess I'll high-tail my context-deficient bum out of here then.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Ah. I guess I'll high-tail my context-deficient bum out of here then.

And stay out!!

in over 50% of the cases it is the primary motivation. in almost 100% of the cases, it is the dominant motivation.

Statistics or it's bullshit.

Again. And, again, you won't provide any...because it's bullshit.

let me ask you sumthing, are you really an idiot or do u just act like it?

OBVIOUSLY there no such thing as statistical records of human being's motivation for beleving in relegion{do u even know how ridiculous that sounds?} . and sumthing like 50% being primary motivation and 100% dominant motivation{two different things}.

for the LESS thick, among us. it is clearly my personal oppinion and those figures are obviously stated as nothing more than my take on the topic.

Actually I remember there being a Bible verse somewhere that said;
"Those that serve God out of fear, would worship The Devil if he revealed himself unto them".

Originally posted by leonheartmm
let me ask you sumthing, are you really an idiot or do u just act like it?

OBVIOUSLY there no such thing as statistical records of human being's motivation for beleving in relegion{do u even know how ridiculous that sounds?} . and sumthing like 50% being primary motivation and 100% dominant motivation{two different things}.

for the LESS thick, among us. it is clearly my personal oppinion and those figures are obviously stated as nothing more than my take on the topic.
In short, you're full of shit.

kthx

to one, who thinks any1 speaking her/his mind = being full of shit. you must be the only one in your world who isnt full of shit. goodluck with that then.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
to one, who thinks any1 speaking her/his mind = being full of shit. you must be the only one in your world who isnt full of shit. goodluck with that then.
I can back up my claims. Yours are "DUDE I THINK THIS" and then you pull statistics out of your ass; ergo, you fail.

i am not at fault for your inability to discern between statistics and , figures which are obviously implied to show personal oppinion , now am i?

Originally posted by Nellinator
And stay out!!

*walks around*

31

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Statistics or it's bullshit.

Again. And, again, you won't provide any...because it's bullshit.

Do you have stats on that?

...BULLSHIT!

Originally posted by DigiMark007
^^ What Alliance said. Myths originated to explain natural phenomenon, and other times to act as guidance for life's struggles or simply provide entertainment.

Awe generally includes an amount of fear (like watching a tornado tear up a house), so it's not surprising that fear worked it's way into the stories of the gods. But it's far from the only motivation.

The problem is that all the things are innately tied back to a fear.

No matter how you look at it, all monotheistic religions are tied to this idea of eternal incentive ("good" or bad".

It is not to do good simply to reap the benefits of the good done, it is to do good so that you will be rewarded with eternal bliss in some heaven like place. Not to do things based on the principle or to live by a maxim, but to do them so that you will not suffer for eternity.

I can not find a way to separate the actions of a Christian, for example, and their beliefs that they will one day go into heaven (but of course with the "truly believe in God in your heart and still go to Heaven whatever you did" thing it gets sort of flimsy with Christians).

Originally posted by chithappens
No matter how you look at it, all monotheistic religions are tied to this idea of eternal incentive ("good" or bad".

What you MEANT to say, I'm sure, is that its possible to view all religions as tied to fear.

You could say I go grocery shopping out of fear of starvation or that I drive my car to work out of fear of the weather, totally negating the facts that I'm only out of milk and work 35 miles away form my home.

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo

Yes, hell is described as eternal torment. But which sounds worse, "dark and burny" or the list of things I described?

Um...dude...eternal tornment sounds pretty ****ing bad either way.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
i am not at fault for your inability to discern between statistics and , figures which are obviously implied to show personal oppinion , now am i?
Your personal opinion has fail written on it.

Originally posted by Alliance
What you MEANT to say, I'm sure, is that its possible to view all religions as tied to fear.

You could say I go grocery shopping out of fear of starvation or that I drive my car to work out of fear of the weather, totally negating the facts that I'm only out of milk and work 35 miles away form my home.

What the hell does that have to do with eternal life and and all powerful deity? I get what you are attempting to do but the analogy does not work.

Originally posted by Alliance
Do you have stats on that?

...BULLSHIT! So he needs three quotes?

Originally posted by DigiMark007
*walks around*

31 *throws e-punch and intraweb tantrum*

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Your personal opinion has fail written on it.

aww polly want a cracker?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
aww polly want a cracker?
Typical nonresponse. Thank you for your time, JIA.

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Typical nonresponse. Thank you for your time, JIA.

Now you are going to go to hell.

Originally posted by Nellinator
So he needs three quotes?

They're likely all from Wikipedia.

Originally posted by chithappens
What the hell does that have to do with eternal life and and all powerful deity? I get what you are attempting to do but the analogy does not work.

Lots. And if you get what I'm getting at, apparently my analogies do work. If they failed, you would have not gotten the point and or readressed them.

As much as wiki can be abused for personal use, I recently read a meta-analysis of comparative studies between wiki and an encyclopedia, and it found no statistical significance in the validity of the two sources.

When someone quotes something for their purposes, this obviously increases because it's possible they edited something simply to use it. But if you're just looking up information, and aren't actually in a debate, it's as valid a source as most places.

Originally posted by Alliance
What you MEANT to say, I'm sure, is that its possible to view all religions as tied to fear.

You could say I go grocery shopping out of fear of starvation or that I drive my car to work out of fear of the weather, totally negating the facts that I'm only out of milk and work 35 miles away form my home. '

This prevents an immediate fallacy because "fear of starvation" is simply death and not "eternal damnation." The gap in time does not work at all.

That is a "matter of fact" analogy. Applied to this, it simply says that you will not achieve something (in this case heaven) if you do not act to guidelines given by said religion. The 35 miles from work is also a matter of fact thing. Driving is a neccesity. Acting according to a certain guideline could be seen as a neccesity but it's a roundabout way of saying it.

It does not work because the consequence is still far more of a big deal.

Originally posted by Alliance
They're likely all from Wikipedia. Not what I meant. What you were suggesting was that all Zeal has to do is provide three quote of leon not providing sources for suspect statements.

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Typical nonresponse. Thank you for your time, JIA.

typical fool, who can not tell the difference between quoted statistics and generalised figures to indicate personal oppinion. thankyou for your time crackerless polly.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
typical fool, who can not tell the difference between quoted statistics and generalised figures to indicate personal oppinion. thankyou for your time crackerless polly.
Ironically enough, you're the one parroting the same thing over and over.

To be honest most of my belief has to do with fear of going to hell.

No risks.

Originally posted by B.A
To be honest most of my belief has to do with fear of going to hell.

No risks.

exactly. most christians view it as a preventative measure

Originally posted by chickenlover98
exactly. most christians view it as a preventative measure
Yet another sweeping statement that has no statistical backing.

PEOPLE, STOP DOING THESE THINGS.

Fear -- specifically, Death Terror -- drives every living thing to do whatever it does. Religion is just the most hi-falootin' expression of what is generally a deeply unconscious base emotion (religion expresses other things too, but certainly fear is part of it).

Originally posted by Storm
Religion spends a lot of time reacting out of apparent fear. Rather than simply and confidently laying out a positive program of beliefs, too often religion is more concerned with raising an alarm over alleged dangers lying in wait all around us.

Not all religions use threats, divine or otherwise, in their attempts to enforce particular moral codes but it’ s certainly a common phenomenon. Shouldn’ t religion focus on the ideals of adhering to moral codes out of a sense of decency and love, rather than out of a fear of hell? Fortunately some do adopt this strategy, many others though don’ t seem to recognize the problem.

Perhaps threats and fear must be attractive to some people because otherwise, these religious groups would disappear. fear is used because its really the only way toget people to believe something without ANY evidence of it being true, in fact all religion is is a literary interetation of the stars it's actually funny, and jesus never died because he never lived, he was just the final version of joeseph, and further more was pure plagerism since hundreds of gods including horus predated jesus and joeseph and had all of the same adventures and various things that made them who they were. watch Zeitgeist. and christanity was created by the roman empire to control the peope using fear, very much wat american government is doing with terrorism. think about it, if christanity never existed we would never have had happy times like, the dark ages, and great crusade.

Originally posted by The big EH
fear is used because its really the only way toget people to believe something without ANY evidence of it being true, in fact all religion is is a literary interetation of the stars it's actually funny, and jesus never died because he never lived, he was just the final version of joeseph, and further more was pure plagerism since hundreds of gods including horus predated jesus and joeseph and had all of the same adventures and various things that made them who they were. watch Zeitgeist. and christanity was created by the roman empire to control the peope using fear, very much wat american government is doing with terrorism. think about it, if christanity never existed we would never have had happy times like, the dark ages, and great crusade.

So, the 3,000 people who died in the WTC should not have been afraid of terrorism? Your point was a good one until you showed your own prejudice.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Now you are going to go to hell. Everyone should fear the spirital penis. ,man...It'll ...............*&^%(^% you up....lol

I get what you mean but let's not say it is the basis for the dark ages and the crusade. You can fool the masses without religion - it just happens to be the easiest way

It's a need, as all............a need to be wanted........and .......I'll give it to you.........and you'll give to me toooooooooo.............oh babe......Heaven now........LOL

People feel good if if they are soooooooooooooooo

Tell****ed. in oodness...........

Oh, nicesties...............I love you.........love you to the end.........N

ue
OT

not frickin tr ue.......................not true\

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, the 3,000 people who died in the WTC should not have been afraid of terrorism? Your point was a good one until you showed your own prejudice. wat terrorism? if you think for yourself and look at things that werent released on media you'll know the WTC was infact a setup, like the Lusitania and so many others

Originally posted by The big EH
wat terrorism? if you think for yourself and look at things that werent released on media you'll know the WTC was infact a setup, like the Lusitania and so many others

Please don't be on the same side of the religious dispute as me. It diminishes my argument.

wat side? i'm merely trying to inform people of wat is going on, before everybody is chipped and cant control anything in their life

Originally posted by The big EH
wat side? i'm merely trying to inform people of wat is going on, before everybody is chipped and cant control anything in their life

Delusion by any name is still delusion. Osama Bin laden has already taken credit for 9-11. Keep it simple, some people find an advantage in terrorism. Changing the topic to terrorism can lead to a solution that could never otherwise be achieved. As a bonus, you might get some idiots to believe it was an inside job.

you should reallly atch zeitgeist

Originally posted by The big EH
you should reallly atch zeitgeist

Really?

9/11 was organized by the Bushitler hatewarmachine.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Really? the mockery you make of it and refusal to look into wat is going on is why america and most of the world are sheeps being herded by bankers and the government

Originally posted by The big EH
the mockery you make of it and refusal to look into wat is going on is why america and most of the world are sheeps being herded by bankers and the government

Whatever.

fine just dont blame other countries when you are basically slaves, and cant control anything about your life or your country becuse thats wat it's coming to

Basically slaves?

Zeitgeist is an embarrassment to the intelligence of the human race.

Organised religion without fear is like water without wetness.

Spirituality can be a different matter, though.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Basically slaves?

Zeitgeist is an embarrassment to the intelligence of the human race.

Here is where any logical person would ask you to elaborate...

The beginning part associating Jesus with the sun is a hilarious farce to say the least. The facts it conjures have been thoroughly rebutted. Their source for those "facts" would be Massey, a poet who told people that he had taught himself to read hieroglyphs then 'translated' stories that portrayed Jesus as being exactly the same as Horus. Funny thing is that it has never been substantiated, ever. Plus, many the relations they make concerning the Zodiac are straight up wrong, especially considering that at best they are 900 years off the mark when relating it to the Bible. It's embarrassing to all Egyptology and comparative mythology scholarship.

I think I'm ont udnerstanding.

"Zeitgeist] describes the intellectual and cultural climate of an era. In German, the word has more layers of meaning than the English translation, including the fact that Zeitgeist can only be observed for past events."

EDIT: Ah, it is a movie. Good God, it looks retarded.

Originally posted by Nellinator
The beginning part associating Jesus with the sun is a hilarious farce to say the least. The facts it conjures have been thoroughly rebutted. Their source for those "facts" would be Massey, a poet who told people that he had taught himself to read hieroglyphs then 'translated' stories that portrayed Jesus as being exactly the same as Horus. Funny thing is that it has never been substantiated, ever. Plus, many the relations they make concerning the Zodiac are straight up wrong, especially considering that at best they are 900 years off the mark when relating it to the Bible. It's embarrassing to all Egyptology and comparative mythology scholarship.

Well, that'll teach em for comparing it to an unproven political control pamphlet counlessly re-written by the hand of man to suit ........well....man's purpose. (Especially the man who wanted control over the men under him (and their goats, taxes, rights not to be tortured, stripped of all that they were for disobeyance etc)

Jesus probably had a great suntan, somewhat ironically, especially being so near the equator. For all we know from the fact that life can really thrive in the sun, (Except, obviously with heavy internet users, such as myself) and any divine powers could only benefit from that.

The sun has been around a hell of a lot longer than Jesus "was" back then and definitely more-so since his alleged existance and subsequent alleged death.

So yes, If I were the sun, I would (If the sun had a conciousness) be infuriated being forever associated with something so often used for fear, war , hate, resentment like the baby Jesus and his theorectical schizophrenic delusion/"father" "God".

In fact I'd start rapidly warming your planet or something, for the blasphemy of it all.....

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
I think I'm ont udnerstanding.

"Zeitgeist] describes the intellectual and cultural climate of an era. In German, the word has more layers of meaning than the English translation, including the fact that Zeitgeist can only be observed for past events."

EDIT: Ah, it is a movie. Good God, it looks retarded. You hadn't heard of it?

Dude, just shut the hell up. You're an idiot.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Well, that'll teach em for comparing it to an unproven political control pamphlet counlessly re-written by the hand of man to suit ........well....man's purpose. (Especially the man who wanted control over the men under him (and their goats, taxes, rights not to be tortured, stripped of all that they were for disobeyance etc)

Jesus probably had a great suntan, somewhat ironically, especially being so near the equator. For all we know from the fact that life can really thrive in the sun, (Except, obviously with heavy internet users, such as myself) and any divine powers could only benefit from that.

The sun has been around a hell of a lot longer than Jesus "was" back then and definitely more-so since his alleged existance and subsequent alleged death.

So yes, If I were the sun, I would (If the sun had a conciousness) be infuriated being forever associated with something so often used for fear, war , hate, resentment like the baby Jesus and his theorectical schizophrenic delusion/"father" "God".

In fact I'd start rapidly warming your planet or something, for the blasphemy of it all.....



{not all conspiracy theories are off the mark u know. reguardless of how ridiculous they might sound to you in the current enviornment. the orchestrating 9-11 attacks "theory" is atleast a valid possibility, even if general people do not consider it one}

Originally posted by leonheartmm


{not all conspiracy theories are off the mark u know. reguardless of how ridiculous they might sound to you in the current enviornment. the orchestrating 9-11 attacks "theory" is atleast a valid possibility, even if general people do not consider it one}

If you consider all evidence against it making it a valid possibility then...

Jesus totally didn't exist.

What???

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Well, that'll teach em for comparing it to an unproven political control pamphlet counlessly re-written by the hand of man to suit ........well....man's purpose. (Especially the man who wanted control over the men under him (and their goats, taxes, rights not to be tortured, stripped of all that they were for disobeyance etc)

Jesus probably had a great suntan, somewhat ironically, especially being so near the equator. For all we know from the fact that life can really thrive in the sun, (Except, obviously with heavy internet users, such as myself) and any divine powers could only benefit from that.

The sun has been around a hell of a lot longer than Jesus "was" back then and definitely more-so since his alleged existance and subsequent alleged death.

So yes, If I were the sun, I would (If the sun had a conciousness) be infuriated being forever associated with something so often used for fear, war , hate, resentment like the baby Jesus and his theorectical schizophrenic delusion/"father" "God".

In fact I'd start rapidly warming your planet or something, for the blasphemy of it all.....


lolz

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If you consider all evidence against it making it a valid possibility then...

it depends very much on where you live. in places like america etc, the norm is encouraged to develop in a way as to make most major deception fit into the "conspiracy theory" label. so it becomes impossible for a an average person to give even authentic theories much credibility. however, if u live sumwhere on the receiving end of the very real and very hostile and very devious policies of superpowers and their bought, dummy governments, its hard NOT to see those supposed "conspiracy theories" as true, with mass propaganda/cencorship/media manipulation hiding the truth{which really IS too horrifying to look at at times}.

i mean if the western media and the puppet pakistani government can turn the "confirmed" fatalities{mostly of children} of the red mosque incident from 1800 to 180! {when i know for a fact that it was even higher than 1800} then really{just one example} one can understand the level of manipulation and the severity of the issues and the intentions of those who change such figures.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
it depends very much on where you live. in places like america etc, the norm is encouraged to develop in a way as to make most major deception fit into the "conspiracy theory" label. so it becomes impossible for a an average person to give even authentic theories much credibility. however, if u live sumwhere on the receiving end of the very real and very hostile and very devious policies of superpowers and their bought, dummy governments, its hard NOT to see those supposed "conspiracy theories" as true, with mass propaganda/cencorship/media manipulation hiding the truth{which really IS too horrifying to look at at times}.

i mean if the western media and the puppet pakistani government can turn the "confirmed" fatalities{mostly of children} of the red mosque incident from 1800 to 180! {when i know for a fact that it was even higher than 1800} then really{just one example} one can understand the level of manipulation and the severity of the issues and the intentions of those who change such figures.

That is true; the truth is most likely in the middle.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is true; the truth is most likely in the middle.

that would generally hold true for humanity's nature. however, when politics/opression/manipulation is concerned, it turns VERY quickly into a vicious cycle. ever heard the expression, " to hide one lie, youll have to make 2 more, two hide two lies, youll have to make 4 more............ n on and on". thats sorta what happens, and besides, that also holds true for actual policies and mistakes.

so{and atleast i can attest from my region of the world} its not just media, but to supress people, more and more murders/genocides/political oppression/economical unfairness and illegal activities are commited and it also turns into a vicious cycle with almost exponential growth in such acts.

{what im saying, is that if it were ENTIRELY upto humans, it wud prolly be in the middle, but practically, the above holds true as the physical world doesnt work on intentions alone}

smart, we just wish everything the government said was true, but really would it be so hard to think that the american government is corrupt? power corrupts, it's a well known fact, for instance communism itself isnt evil or bad it's just that the dictators get to much power and it completly corrupts them

LOLZ

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Jesus totally didn't exist.

Right

You're an imbecil.

Jesus Christ of Nazereth did exist...

That isn't the question, the "question" is whether or not the claims obviously stated in the bible are true or not.

Me, being a christian, is obviously going to believe them.

Originally posted by SV_DrumMeR
Right

You're an imbecil.

Jesus Christ of Nazereth did exist...

That isn't the question, the "question" is whether or not the claims obviously stated in the bible are true or not.

Me, being a christian, is obviously going to believe them.
No, you're am imbecile. Why? Because I said so.

By the way, nice attempt at covering your insult with "omg im a christian."

I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
No, you're am imbecile. Why? Because I said so.

By the way, nice attempt at covering your insult with "omg im a christian."

I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE

What!?

Because you said so? thats makes no sense.

that wasn't an attempt at covering an insult, i'm simply saying that I am a Christian, and I do believe in the story of Jesus Christ.

You're right, it doesn't make sense. I was making fun of you.

oh...

...Well, now it makes sense.

Originally posted by The big EH
smart, we just wish everything the government said was true, but really would it be so hard to think that the american government is corrupt? power corrupts, it's a well known fact, for instance communism itself isnt evil or bad it's just that the dictators get to much power and it completly corrupts them

It's really not that simple. It's a paradigm.

Not every culture of history has fought wars to conquer.

Originally posted by BackFire
"Believe what I believe or you will be butt****ed by a demon in a pit of fire for all eternity, God loves you, though."

Yeah, I want in on that religion.

I was alwys told that I'd be poked and prodded by demons whilst burning in the lake of fire.

I never knew it meant sodomy.

Originally posted by Impediment
I was alwys told that I'd be poked and prodded by demons whilst burning in the lake of fire.

I never knew it meant sodomy.

Wouldn't you start to like it after a few hundred years?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Wouldn't you start to like it after a few hundred years?

Only if they cuddled with me after the fact. ermmsrug

All hail the glorious redemption of our fathers............

Originally posted by debbiejo
All hail the glorious redemption of our fathers............



But, then again, it was posted by Deb.

Which makes it more meaningful...

Originally posted by debbiejo
Which makes it more meaningful...

Do you really think so?

I just deposited my reality check and it cleared!!

Originally posted by debbiejo
I just deposited my reality check and it cleared!!


Now you have your two cents.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Now you're a rich, rich woman!!

Filthy rich!!

Originally posted by debbiejo
Filthy rich!!

I did not say that.

*takes Deb's two cents*

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I'll say it agian

*Gives deb one million more*

Originally posted by debbiejo



*runs away*

nono

No, no, noooo...Hell isn't to far away, I'll go fetch that thread.........Hehe

Originally posted by debbiejo
nono

No, no, noooo...Hell isn't to far away, I'll go fetch that thread.........Hehe


That thread has been corrupted. Someone really tried to talk about hell in it.

Maybe the notion of Hell didn't scare some, but the garrucha, toca and the potro probably did the trick

Originally posted by Storm
Religion spends a lot of time reacting out of apparent fear. Rather than simply and confidently laying out a positive program of beliefs, too often religion is more concerned with raising an alarm over alleged dangers lying in wait all around us.

Not all religions use threats, divine or otherwise, in their attempts to enforce particular moral codes but it’ s certainly a common phenomenon. Shouldn’ t religion focus on the ideals of adhering to moral codes out of a sense of decency and love, rather than out of a fear of hell? Fortunately some do adopt this strategy, many others though don’ t seem to recognize the problem.

Perhaps threats and fear must be attractive to some people because otherwise, these religious groups would disappear.

Perhaps religions are so concerned with these "dangers" lets take the Devil for example because they actually exist...but the devil tells people such as yourself that hes no threat to anyone and that religious people are just trying to scare you...like a parent might tell a child the bogeyman will get them if they don't eat their veggies...its like...if you wanted to kidnap a child, even though the child has been told strangers are a danger they might go with you because you simply told the child you weren't a danger.

Originally posted by Storm
Religion spends a lot of time reacting out of apparent fear. Rather than simply and confidently laying out a positive program of beliefs, too often religion is more concerned with raising an alarm over alleged dangers lying in wait all around us.

Not all religions use threats, divine or otherwise, in their attempts to enforce particular moral codes but it’ s certainly a common phenomenon. Shouldn’ t religion focus on the ideals of adhering to moral codes out of a sense of decency and love, rather than out of a fear of hell? Fortunately some do adopt this strategy, many others though don’ t seem to recognize the problem.

Perhaps threats and fear must be attractive to some people because otherwise, these religious groups would disappear.

So go make a religion and see what happens . . .

Oh can I also point out that whole statement is false and clearly brought about by a sweeping generalisation on a topic you know little about or have a prejudice towards due to limited study.