Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

This is the draft confirmation period. During this time I will post all proposed team rosters so that all participants will be able to see what the opposition's roster consists of. This will be your opportunity to voice concerns and levy arguments as to why a particular character should not be allowed into the tournament. A case must be made against a character with substantiating evidence as to why this character should be eliminated by contention. The "Popular Veto" must garner a 4/5s (80%) vote from all participants in order for it to be presented to Soljer, Digi, and Myself for consideration and ratification. If a draft selection is vetoed the team effected will have 1 day to present a viable replacement character or risk having an available character designated by either myself, Digi or Soljer.

Here are the rosters for the team tournament:

B-Dub & DarkCrawler:

Synch - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synch_%28comics%29
Sage - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sage_%28comics%29
Jubilee - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubilee_%28comics%29
Dupli-Kate (from Invincible) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dupli-Kate"
Shinobi Shaw - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinobi_Shaw
Darkhawk - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkhawk

Akuki, Charlotte, and King Kandy:
Kenshiro (NorthStar) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenshiro
Seras Victoria (Hellsing) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seras_Victoria
Klaw (Marvel) - http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/klawulysses.htm
Izuru Kira (Bleach) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izuru_Kira#3rd_Division
"K' (NeoSun comics version) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%27
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t450783.html"
"Jakita Wagner - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakita_Wagner
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t451613.html

Trickster, Cap, & Estacado (?, I thought Red ):

Joker - http://www.geocities.com/jokercdi/
Midnighter - http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/m/midnghtr.htm'
Venom - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venom_(Eddie_Brock)
Black Knight (Avalonian Equipment Only) -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_...Dane_Whitman%29"
Jotaro Kujo (Jojo's bizarre adventure) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jotaro_Kujo
Guts (Berserk) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characters_of_Berserk

Grey Fox, Bada, & Citizen V:

Deathstroke - http://www.titanstower.com/source/whoswho/deathstroke.html
Mirror Master - http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/mirror2.html
Black Tarantula - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Tarantula
Night Crawler - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Tarantula
Dark Walter - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_C._Dornez
Dalek Sec - http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Dalek_Sec#Dalek_Sec

Smurph & Bran:

Multiple Man - http://www.marveldirectory.com/indi...multipleman.htm
Sebastian Shaw - http://www.marveldirectory.com/indi...b/blackking.htm
Karnak - http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/k/karnak.htm
Iron Fist - http://www.marveldirectory.com/indi.../i/ironfist.htm
Savage Dragon - http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/s/savdrag.htm
Quicksilver - http://www.marveldirectory.com/indi...quicksilver.htm

Due to the uneven <8 number of teams I've made a modification to the format of Round 1:

Each team will have 4 first round matches (facing off against each team participating in the tournament). In Round 1, due to the unequal team constraints, you will also not be able to add a member of your beaten opponents roster to your own, that will have to wait until the following semifinal Round, which will be a best of 3 (each semifinalist team must defeat their opponent twice). Each match will have 3 judges, and each judge vote is worth a point. The number of points accumulated in Round 1 will determine seeding in Round 2. Any ties will be resolved via a match between the tied teams.

In Round 2, the 1st Seed will face the 4th Seed and the 2nd Seed will face the 3rd seed.

Let the confirmation begin.

The link for NightCrawler is wrong.

Great lineups, though.

I've already got an objection. Jotaro Kujo on tricksters team has a time stop ability.

Ok , let's kick off the *****-fest.

1. Jotaro Kujo - Dude has time freeze, INSTA-BAN !

2. Savage Dragon - While i'm not 100% i'm pretty sure his strength is WAAAAAAY higher then Spideys.

Strength alone isn't enough to ban him, I believe. He's stronger, but not faster, or more agile, and doesn't have Spider-Sense etc.

Heres the rule list just so people can see it.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Tournament Specifications:

1. Team tournament. Each team will consist of 2-3 posters. Each team member (poster) will represent one character in the battle and will not be able to post arguments for the others. The exception to this rule is teams with only 2 (two) posters. On these teams each team member will be able to post arguments regarding the character they represent as well as the 3rd character (you'll need to coordinate your arguments so that your attacks do not conflict).

2. Each team will be allowed to draft 6 (six) characters (Any Genre).

3. With this 6 (six) character roster you must field a 3 (three) character team, whether they be amalgamated or individuals. Examples:

3 two character amalgams
1 three character amalgam + 1 two character amalgam + 1 single character
2 two character amalgams + 1 single character
1 three character amalgam + 2 single characters
3 single characters

4. No amalgamated character can be a combination of more than 3 (three) individual characters, and no team fielded can be a combination of more than 6 (six) individual characters. You must field 3 (three) combatants (max) at all times.

5. You are allowed, and encouraged to, reconfigure your amalgamations into any combination you wish for each round. However, you can not reconfigure your amalgams during combat.

6. After each round the winning team will be allowed to add a member of their defeated opponent's team to their own roster for the subsequent rounds. However, the above amalgamation and combatant requirements still apply, you simply increase the pool of characters to choose from.

7. In the interest of instituting a strategic element, the 3 (three) characters and configuration that each team will be using in the battle will not be known until the opening combat comments are posted in the battle. You'll know your opponents roster, but you will not know which 3 (three) characters the team you are facing will be fielding until battle commences.

Tournament Rules:

1. This will be a Spider-Man/Low Meta Tier Tournament. The characters do not need to be less powerful than Spider-man himself, simply in the same power class. There is no cap on how powerful your amalgamation can be. The limits are simply on the individual members of your roster prior to amalgamation.

2. No magic (spell casting or magical attacks). Magically granted physical abilities (strength, agility, etc., barring senses) are allowed.

3. No offensive telepathy (mind reading, mental bolts, emotion manipulation, psychic illusions, mind wiping, mental location tracking). Short term, limited clairvoyance (akin to a "Spider-sense", and other passive telepathic traits will be allowed.

4. No offensive matter manipulation. Only the elements of the battlefield can be altered. No character that can manipulate their opponents molecular structure (organic components), will be allowed. Manipulation of inorganic material is allowed, but direct use on the opposition is banned.

5. No time manipulation powers or technology.

6. No one-shot kill abilities (example, Omega Red's "Death Factor", Rogue's soul/life-force absorption, etc.).

7. No access to the battlefield prior to the beginning of combat. Teams will begin combat .5 kilometers away from each others' position.

8. Prep is allowed. You get 10 (ten) minutes of prep per round at a member of your team's historical base of operations. Characters that are members of teams (X-Men, Avengers, etc) will be able to utilize the team base of operations unless the character is also a solo hero and has their own personal base of operations (i.e. Batman gets the Bat-cave as his base even though as a member of the JLA he has access to the Watchtower). For characters that are members of a team you will not have access to any of their teammates equipment or arsenal, only the prep host's resources. The only resource available to you other than the prep host's arsenal will be the computer database present at the base. You get the character's historic primary base of operations and access to the prep host's equipment only. No exceptions and no loopholes.

9. The amalgamation process will take place during prep and will utilize a portion of your prep time as follows:

2 character amalgam: 2 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
3 character amalgam: 4 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.

Amalgamations can take place at any point in time during prep, and all characters do not need to amalgamate at the same time. That is purely at the teams discretion. Manage your time wisely.

10. Take into consideration that whatever prep area you utilize in a previous round will not be available to you in any subsequent rounds. Utilize these options wisely. If, for example, you used the Bat-cave (and all vehicles and tech there within) in round 1 you won't be able to use it again in any later rounds within this tournament. Also note that drafting multiple members of the same team will not grant you the use of a particular prep area more than once. If you draft Wolverine and Beast you will not be able to use the X-Mansion twice, only once. You only have access to any given prep area one time in this tournament. No exceptions. Choose wisely.

11. Vehicles will be allowed for use and are based solely on availability at chosen prep host's base of operations. For example, if you chose Batman as your prep host (The Bat-cave as your prep area) you'd be able to use either the Bat-mobile, Bat-wing, etc. Each team is limited to 1 vehicle per round. You can only utilize a "midsized" vehicle that can carry 2-6 occupants. No mobile bases. So, for example, if you drafted Nick Fury, no, you can't bring the Helicarrier with you into battle. However, if you drafted an Avenger you could use a Quinjet, or if you drafted an X-Man you could use the Blackbird.

12. Experience is the only thing that carries over from round to round. You can not bring any implement that you acquired during prep or during the battle to the subsequent rounds. All you'll have is your memories/experiences from the previous battle. No exceptions. No loopholes.

13. No loopholes.

14. No loopholes.

15. No neutering of a character's abilities to enable them to compete within the cap limits.

16. During combat no more than 3 independently acting constructs per team (sum of 3 team members + constructs must not exceed 6).

17. No CIS.

Draft Specifications:

The draft will be private via PM here at KMC. On Saturday, November 10th, at 10a PST, I will post a thread which will simply state "Round 1 begins". That will be your opening gun to send a PM of your first 2 draft selections to me by PM. Picks will be granted in order of PM receipt (this way if another team has chosen the same character as another their will be no confusion as to who submitted the choice first). I will PM, in order of PM received, all participants to notify them whether they need to replace one or both characters drafted due to the characters being prior draft. You will not lose your place in the draft order if a team beat you to your draft picks. However, you will only have 2 hours to provide me with a replacement character. Failure to do so will result in your draft position being dropped to last place in line for round 1, but you will retain your original draft placement for the subsequent rounds.

All participants with Time Zone conflicts please either make arrangements with a teammate or a proxy forum member to draft on your behalf. I'll try to accommodate the time issues as best as I can.

After the draft we will have a Roster Confirmation. During this time I will post a thread containing all proposed teams so that all participants will be able to see what the opposition's roster consists of. This will be your opportunity to voice concerns and levy arguments as to why a particular character should not be allowed into the tournament. A case must be made against a character with substantiating evidence as to why this character should be eliminated by contention. The "Popular Veto" must garner a 4/5s vote from all participants in order for it to be presented to Soljer, Digi, and Myself for consideration and ratification. If a draft selection is vetoed the team effected will have 1 day to present a viable replacement character or risk having an available character designated by either myself, Digi or Soljer.

For all combatants who haven't registered at the House of Zod, please take this opportunity to do so. Combat threads will be posted in the Warwold forum at the House of Zodby 11/25 (tentatively).

Hey Grey when you say Dark Walter you mean adult brainwashed Walter right? He seems a bit borderline to me, but I guess his weaknesses make it so he could be allowed.

What of Kenshiros 'Big Dipper' strike. The 'Head xploding' punch. Isn't that a one-hit kill ?

Originally posted by Akuki
Heres the rule list just so people can see it.



Hey Grey when you say Dark Walter you mean adult brainwashed Walter right? He seems a bit borderline to me, but I guess his weaknesses make it so he could be allowed.

Yup, Adult Vampire Walter.

Originally posted by grey fox
What of Kenshiros 'Big Dipper' strike. The 'Head xploding' punch. Isn't that a one-hit kill ?

I wouldn't classify it as one...it can be avoided, and I see a lot more one-shot applications of power here.

Originally posted by grey fox
What of Kenshiros 'Big Dipper' strike. The 'Head xploding' punch. Isn't that a one-hit kill ?
It can be, but it has a lot of factors that make it possible to defend against. I mean when it comes down to it, if you let any of these characters get the 17 plus direct body blows on an opponent, that opponents going down.

Also hasn't Quicksilver always been ranked at mid-meta?
I was also a bit surprised that Illdelph forgot to ban characters who multiply like Multiple man since they seem to have been banned from the last couple tourneys.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Strength alone isn't enough to ban him, I believe. He's stronger, but not faster, or more agile, and doesn't have Spider-Sense etc.

He's Class 60-65 , thats a bit too far IMO.

Nice teams

Originally posted by Akuki
It can be, but it has a lot of factors that make it possible to defend against. I mean when it comes down to it, if you let any of these characters get the 17 plus direct body blows on an opponent, that opponents going down.

Also hasn't Quicksilver always been ranked at mid-meta?
I was also a bit surprised that Illdelph forgot to ban characters who multiply like Multiple man since they seem to have been banned from the last couple tourneys.

They now have a set limit to their multiples.

So, from what I understand, any one is allowed as long as they're some one who Spider-Man can conceivably beat or, at the very least, do well against?

Originally posted by grey fox
They now have a set limit to their multiples.
Alright then, in that case I just have one more objection. Synch seems a bit over the limit here. I mean if we consider the fact that he can use the power of any person he encounters permanently, he definitely can be more powerful than Rogue, and she's already Mid-Meta.

Originally posted by Akuki
Alright then, in that case I just have one more objection. Synch seems a bit over the limit here. I mean if we consider the fact that he can use the power of any person he encounters permanently, he definitely can be more powerful than Rogue, and she's already Mid-Meta.

Indeed.

Uh, power absorbing wasn't banned. Without anything to absorb from, Synch is as harmless as a kitten. I mean, it's not like he can use anyone's power forever. They need to be at his vicinity.

Rogue is mid meta because she can fly at Mach speeds, take missiles to her head, catch bullets from the air and survive being punched to orbit. Plus her absorbing power is an OHKO ability itself.

When Synch absorbs someones power, it doesn't do any harm to the one he takes it from.

He is valid and within the rules.

Originally posted by grey fox
He's Class 60-65 , thats a bit too far IMO. I wasn't aware that he was Class 60-65. Where did you get that from?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Uh, power absorbing wasn't banned. Without anything to absorb from, Synch is as harmless as a kitten. I mean, it's not like he can use anyone's power forever. They need to be at his vicinity.

Rogue is mid meta because she can fly at Mach speeds, take missiles to her head, catch bullets from the air and survive being punched to orbit. Plus her absorbing power is an OHKO ability itself.

When Synch absorbs someones power, it doesn't do anything harm.

He is valid and within the rules.
The bio seemed to indicate that he can hold onto a persons power permanently once he's come into contact with them.

He can't.

Originally posted by grey fox
Ok , let's kick off the *****-fest.

1. Jotaro Kujo - Dude has time freeze, INSTA-BAN !

2. Savage Dragon - While i'm not 100% i'm pretty sure his strength is WAAAAAAY higher then Spideys. Your correct.

Reading through this he is banned without a doubt. Dragon that is.

Synch cannot permanetly retain powers.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I wasn't aware that he was Class 60-65. Where did you get that from?

His thread.

In that case I withdraw my objections, the permanent absorbtion I saw in the wiki article threw me off.

Originally posted by grey fox
His thread. Okay.

The "thread" only had a comment about the writer's original intent. When I asked the thread creator about feats that backed that up, he had nothing to say.

Essentially, the comment holds as much water as Stan Lee's comment that Hulk should be able to take Superman.

Ok then I figure I'm probably back as Judge now if Ill would have me back but I figure this something I need to bring to Ill's attention.


I don't know if this rule has changed but when I asked Ill said that Magic was completely banned in all forms and angles.

So if that is still the case then Black Knight w/ Avalon stuff would be banned because all of his Avalon equipment was magical in nature.

Also the synch ability seems to be limited to mutants, thus Synch can't "synch" with Kenshiro or anyone else whose powerset isn't coming from mutation.

Also I hope you meant pre-isotope E Quicksilver, cause past-isotope one is over the caps.

Also Dalek Sec is a telepath. I have no objections agaist Sage whose telepathy is purely passive, but that seems like a violation of rules unless confirmed that Dalek's tepelathy is passive.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Also Dalek Sec is a telepath. I have no objections agaist Sage whose telepathy is purely passive, but that seems like a violation of rules unless confirmed that Dalek's tepelathy is passive.
He also appears to have possession of some time travel tech as well, as he is described as escaping a battle with the doctor via a temporal shift.

Jotaro did not use his time-stop power before the 'Dio's World' story-arc. And I will be drafting him from before the point in the story where he manifested that power. And need I remind you that before he observed Dio himself using that power, he was unable to use it? So there will be no time stop from Star Platinum.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Jotaro did not use his time-stop power before the 'Dio's World' story-arc. And I will be drafting him from before the point in the story where he manifested that power. And need I remind you that before he observed Dio himself using that power, he was unable to use it? So there will be no time stop from Star Platinum.
Okay then, what point will you be drafting him from? Because Jotaro still has a lot of abilities that might put him over.

Don't forget that the objections must be agreed upon by 4/5s of your fellow combatants. You have to convince at least that portion of the participants to agree with your case against a character and they must cast a vote of acceptance.

Objections: Darkhawk. That guy just killed Ultron in 2 shots.

Dupli-kate. Multiple Man is banned for a reason.

Kira from Bleach. His ability is over the caps.

Seras Victoria. Damn you Akuki, she is at least mid meta currently. She's got Alucard's powers.

Dalek Sec: ..............no frelling way you are getting a Dalek. Their armor is almost invulnerable and they have computer brains comparable to the Doctor's technology.

Kenshiro: Hokuto Shin Ken is technically a OHK ability.

Originally posted by Akuki
He also appears to have possession of some time travel tech as well, as he is described as escaping a battle with the doctor via a temporal shift.

It's useless and would serve no purpose. Added into the fact that it's use drains the Dalek of 99% of it's energy. Think of it the same as a robots 'self-destruct' button. To put it simply it's a cheap plot-device used to give the wirters a chance to use the Daleks again due to the 'Great Time war' having annihilated 90% of the Dalek population.

Daleks have never out rightly used their telepathy, it's only hinted at. Only humanoid Daleks have ever used Psychic abilities.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Dupli-kate. Multiple Man is banned for a reason.

Does somebody else want to tell him, or should I?

Originally posted by grey fox
It's useless and would serve no purpose. Added into the fact that it's use drains the Dalek of 99% of it's energy. Think of it the same as a robots 'self-destruct' button. To put it simply it's a cheap plot-device used to give the wirters a chance to use the Daleks again due to the 'Great Time war' having annihilated 90% of the Dalek population.

Daleks have never out rightly used their telepathy, it's only hinted at. Only humanoid Daleks have ever used Psychic abilities.

What about their DNA assimilation? Or their nearly impenetrable armor? The computer brains? The death rays?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Objections: Darkhawk. That guy just killed Ultron in 2 shots.

Dupli-kate. Multiple Man is banned for a reason.

Kira from Bleach. His ability is over the caps.

Seras Victoria. Damn you Akuki, she is at least mid meta currently. She's got Alucard's powers.

Dalek Sec: ..............no frelling way you are getting a Dalek. Their armor is almost invulnerable and they have computer brains comparable to the Doctor's technology.

Kenshiro: Hokuto Shin Ken is technically a OHK ability.

Rebuttals:
Kira: His ability has plenty of drawbacks, requires contact with the opponent, and its clear from his fighting abilities that he would go down hard in a battle against Spidey.
Seras: She only has a very very limited form of his regeneration, the manga specifically states that Alucards regeneration is due to the immense number of souls in him, Seras has one, she hasn't shown anywhere near his regeneration feats, in fact her regeneration is probably rather similar to Deathstrokes

Originally posted by Citizen V
Does somebody else want to tell him, or should I? Nah, he's right.

Ban Dupli-Kate. shifty

Kenshiro- technically it is but only if it's connects (if he's banned then Karnak should be banned also). Also it's unclear how would it work on opponents like Savage Dragon which durability is way above human. Anyways, I specifically asked Illadelph about him before the tourney and he said it was OK.

Originally posted by Akuki
Rebuttals:
Kira: His ability has plenty of drawbacks, requires contact with the opponent, and its clear from his fighting abilities that he would go down hard in a battle against Spidey.
Seras: She only has a very very limited form of his regeneration, the manga specifically states that Alucards regeneration is due to the immense number of souls in him, Seras has one, she hasn't shown anywhere near his regeneration feats, in fact her regeneration is probably rather similar to Deathstrokes

Seras has shadowform powers similar to Alucard and she already absorbed one soul from Pip.

http://groups.msn.com/ATU-BOTI/hellsingvolume7hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10182

Resisting and breaking the illusions of Zorin Blitz, a vampire with wide range illusion powers.
http://groups.msn.com/ATU-BOTI/hellsingvolume7hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10320
http://groups.msn.com/ATU-BOTI/hellsingvolume7hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10324

Proof that she absorbed Pip's soul and memories.
http://groups.msn.com/ATU-BOTI/hellsingvolume7hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10321
http://groups.msn.com/ATU-BOTI/hellsingvolume7hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10322

Flight through shadowform.
http://groups.msn.com/ATU-BOTI/hellsingvolume7hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10334
http://groups.msn.com/ATU-BOTI/hellsingvolume7hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10335

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
What about their DNA assimilation? Or their nearly impenetrable armor? The computer brains? The death rays?

DNA assimilation only works on Time-travelers with specific radiation unique to DW universe.


Armour isn't impenetrable , you just need the right frequency to Peirce their shields. Also in the season 1 finale daleks were being hurt. Or how about third season ? The Human/Dalek/Gallifrians were killing Daleks.

Their in a machine, what the hell do you expect. Also we have Midnighter in the freakin tourney ! The guy does EXACTLY the same things with his ORGANIC brain.


Feh , 'Death Rays' . Its an energy weapon. They can be dodged ect. Hell Baron Zemo (ww2 version) was carrying a 'Death ray'.

Her shadowform is quite limited thing from what I've seen, also souls\
memory absorbtion appeared after she drank Pip's blood.

Originally posted by grey fox
DNA assimilation only works on Time-travelers with specific radiation unique to DW universe.


Armour isn't impenetrable , you just need the right frequency to Peirce their shields. Also in the season 1 finale daleks were being hurt. Or how about third season ? The Human/Dalek/Gallifrians were killing Daleks.

Their in a machine, what the hell do you expect. Also we have Midnighter in the freakin tourney ! The guy does EXACTLY the same things with his ORGANIC brain.


Feh , 'Death Rays' . Its an energy weapon. They can be dodged ect. Hell Baron Zemo (ww2 version) was carrying a 'Death ray'.

Specific frequencies that no one in this tournament will know or be able to find out. As someone said about Daleks and stairs: "Real Daleks don't climb stairs, they level the building." srsly Something that can level buildings with it's death ray is mid meta at least.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Seras has shadowform powers similar to Alucard and she already absorbed one soul from Pip.

http://groups.msn.com/ATU-BOTI/hellsingvolume7hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10182

Resisting and breaking the illusions of Zorin Blitz, a vampire with wide range illusion powers.
http://groups.msn.com/ATU-BOTI/hellsingvolume7hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10320
http://groups.msn.com/ATU-BOTI/hellsingvolume7hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10324

Proof that she absorbed Pip's soul and memories.
http://groups.msn.com/ATU-BOTI/hellsingvolume7hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10321
http://groups.msn.com/ATU-BOTI/hellsingvolume7hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10322

Flight through shadowform.
http://groups.msn.com/ATU-BOTI/hellsingvolume7hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10334
http://groups.msn.com/ATU-BOTI/hellsingvolume7hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10335

The memory absorbtion is almost useless in battle as it requires killing the opponent first, and you aren't allowed to take it to the next round, her shadow form is very limited, and she can't regenerate it back into her normal body like Alucard can. And how does the ability to resist illusions put her above the limit?

Also what are you complaining about, take a look at some of Jotaro's feats. He's punched through diamond walls, can catch bullets fired less than 2 inches from his skull, can match and overpower The World in terms of speed and powr until the time stop is used. He has plenty of speed feats that could put him above quicksilver.

Originally posted by Akuki
The memory absorbtion is almost useless in battle as it requires killing the opponent first, and you aren't allowed to take it to the next round, her shadow form is very limited, and she can't regenerate it back into her normal body like Alucard can. And how does the ability to resist illusions put her above the limit?

She was able to briefly stand up to God-Anderson and create a bulletproof shield around Integra.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Specific frequencies that no one in this tournament will know or be able to find out. As someone said about Daleks and stairs: "Real Daleks don't climb stairs, they level the building." srsly Something that can level buildings with it's death ray is mid meta at least.

Any Energy manipulator worth their salt could turn the thing off. Originally posted by TricksterPriest
She was able to briefly stand up to God-Anderson and create a bulletproof shield around Integra.

Thats an insult to Goderson , she just held a re-bar . Thats all.

Also nobody's going to use illusions there in a first place.

Kenshiro is not really over the limit...no more than say Karnak.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Jotaro did not use his time-stop power before the 'Dio's World' story-arc. And I will be drafting him from before the point in the story where he manifested that power. And need I remind you that before he observed Dio himself using that power, he was unable to use it? So there will be no time stop from Star Platinum.

Sounds like neutering to me. But I spose it's still to the vote?

Barring stomping Ultron recently, Darkhawk doesn't seem over the limits, though I may be wrong.

Bulletproof shield- yeah, Venom can create shields from his symbiote and nobody bans Venom.

Originally posted by Soljer
Sounds like neutering to me. But I spose it's still to the vote?

Barring stomping Ultron recently, Darkhawk doesn't seem over the limits, though I may be wrong.

You mean She-tron ?

Seriously jotaro has to go. he took hundreds of punches from a guy who do this just by stumbling into a wall with a cut fist and got back up.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d114/taleran/JJBA/JOJO-v02-c10-p010-011.png

Originally posted by grey fox
You mean She-tron ?

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Scans/RunawaysV206page17.jpg

Hokuto Shin Ken kills guys who are made of steel, guys who can't be hurt by bullets, and even a glancing blow can finish a person off.

Seras before her upgrade is ok, Seras post upgrade is over the cap.

Walter is dicey.
http://groups.msn.com/ATU-BOTI/hellsingvolume7hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10365
http://groups.msn.com/ATU-BOTI/hellsingvolume7hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10366

Those wires of his rip through choppers and buildings.

Here's more from Seras.
http://groups.msn.com/ATU-BOTI/hellsingvolume7hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10373
http://groups.msn.com/ATU-BOTI/hellsingvolume7hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10374

Anderson gives Seras respect and says an entire company of Iscariot operatives could not take her down.
http://groups.msn.com/ATU-BOTI/hellsingvolume7hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10376

Venom shouldn't be in this.

He's clearly superior to Spidey in every way, one of the (if not the) strongest characters in the tourney, and has a plethora of abilities due to the symbiote.

Originally posted by Akuki
Seriously jotaro has to go. he took hundreds of punches from a guy who do this just by stumbling into a wall with a cut fist and got back up.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d114/taleran/JJBA/JOJO-v02-c10-p010-011.png

Correction, his stand took that punishment. And that's not much worse than Venom or some other bricks.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Hokuto Shin Ken kills guys who are made of steel, guys who can't be hurt by bullets, and even a glancing blow can finish a person off.

Seras before her upgrade is ok, Seras post upgrade is over the cap.

Walter is dicey.
http://groups.msn.com/ATU-BOTI/hellsingvolume7hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10365
http://groups.msn.com/ATU-BOTI/hellsingvolume7hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10366

Those wires of his rip through choppers and buildings.

Here's more from Seras.
http://groups.msn.com/ATU-BOTI/hellsingvolume7hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10373
http://groups.msn.com/ATU-BOTI/hellsingvolume7hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10374

Anderson gives Seras respect and says an entire company of Iscariot operatives could not take her down.
http://groups.msn.com/ATU-BOTI/hellsingvolume7hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10376

And Spidey CAN'T take down a 'copter ?

Also your exaggerating the Iscariot thing. A company is 75-200 people , and those would all just be ordinary guy's with guns.

I vote Jotaro out.

Also, would being able to double the weight of organic matter over and over again until they can't move (or worse) classify as organic matter manip?

Karnak has chattered diamonds with pressure point strikes. So Kenshiro isn't that over the caps...

Spiderman isn't the strength cap, that's just "token char" for low meta level.

I show you a picture of Spidey ripping parts of helicopter away if you wish- Spidey was class 10 at these times. Also Spiderman ISN'T THE STRENGHT CAP, people. Where did you get that?

We seriously need to ban multiple man and dupli-kate. There's a reason that shit is always banned.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Also Spiderman ISN'T THE STRENGHT CAP, people. Where did you get that? Who said he was?

I was just using Spidey as an example. Jeez.

There's a limit on duplicates- 3 of them. But...having Synch & Dupli-Kate in the same team makes me think I didn't waste my time looking over old tricks again.

Originally posted by grey fox
I was just using Spidey as an example. Jeez.

There was a "he was that much stronger than Spidey", I wasn't talking about you, Foxie.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
We seriously need to ban multiple man and dupli-kate. There's a reason that shit is always banned.
Eh, lets just ask Illdelph to make a decision on it. I know previous tournaments have banned it, but it might be an instance where he just decided to let them in.

Question, is Dragon allowed in this. because if it is I can prove why he shouldn't, know it would take time, gotta find a link to the site.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
There's a limit on duplicates- 3 of them. But...having Synch & Dupli-Kate in the same team makes me think I didn't waste my time looking over old tricks again.

Unfortunately Synch can only synch with mutants.

Which Duplikate 'aint.

Originally posted by B.A
Question, is Dragon allowed in this. because if it is I can prove why he shouldn't, know it would take time, gotta find a link to the site.

I vote we toss Dragon to the curb. You have proof BA ?

Originally posted by SwindlingSmurph
Venom shouldn't be in this.

He's clearly superior to Spidey in every way, one of the (if not the) strongest characters in the tourney, and has a plethora of abilities due to the symbiote. Originally posted by SwindlingSmurph
I vote Jotaro out.

Also, would being able to double the weight of organic matter over and over again until they can't move (or worse) classify as organic matter manip?

Originally posted by grey fox
I vote we toss Dragon to the curb. You have proof BA ?


I do, will take a while to find but yeah I do.

iF i REMMEBER, THE GUY USED TO GO TOE TO TOE WITH CLASS 100S, TAKE hULK LEVEL PUNCHES AND RETURN IN MINUTES.

Damn sorry for caps.

I only read a respect thread/site so I never read the whole story know.

Originally posted by Akuki
Eh, lets just ask Illdelph to make a decision on it. I know previous tournaments have banned it, but it might be an instance where he just decided to let them in.

There they allowed them in because of the limitation of constructs- 3 duplicates maximum.

Originally posted by SwindlingSmurph
Venom shouldn't be in this.

He's clearly superior to Spidey in every way, one of the (if not the) strongest characters in the tourney, and has a plethora of abilities due to the symbiote.

I have to agree. Venom is almost certainly above the caps.

I already mentioned my opinion on Darkhawk and 'Jotaro.'

The rest of the anime characters I've never even heard of...

Is there anyone else on the chopping block?

Originally posted by Soljer
I have to agree. Venom is almost certainly above the caps.

I already mentioned my opinion on Darkhawk and 'Jotaro.'

The rest of the anime characters I've never even heard of...

Is there anyone else on the chopping block?

So far we have....

Dragon
Jotaro
Venom

I really don't think Kira's ability can be qualified as organic matter manipulation. it has clearly defined limits, and there are ways of blocking it that several characters in this tournament could use. Also it doesn't really intrinsically change the characters themselves.

Nobody's answered my question.

I do think, though, that if you can cause an opponent's weight to double with every hit, that should fall under organic matter manip.

Venom was moved to mid meta recently. Savage Dragon is class 70 but from what was seen he has no superhuman speed or agility- just a bulletproof brick- but- a bulletproof brick with Wolverine level healing factor which is enough for voting him out.

Originally posted by SwindlingSmurph
Nobody's answered my question.

I do think, though, that if you can cause an opponent's weight to double with every hit, that should fall under organic matter manip.

I...dont think so. Wouldn't it be Density control ?

Originally posted by grey fox
So far we have....

Dragon
Jotaro
Venom

I don't know all that much on venom so I'll wait to hear more on them, but Jotaro definitely needs out, and from what I'm hearing on Dragon so does he, but I'll wait until I get more data on him.

http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,104013.0.html

This may be useful in your decision for/against Dragon.

That's more likely not matter manip but a local gravity distortion...

Originally posted by Soljer
http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,104013.0.html

This may be useful in your decision for/against Dragon.

Thats pretty small but should help.

I think this settles it.

Dragon get's the dust-cloud

Originally posted by Akuki
I really don't think Kira's ability can be qualified as organic matter manipulation. it has clearly defined limits, and there are ways of blocking it that several characters in this tournament could use. Also it doesn't really intrinsically change the characters themselves. Actually, doubling a person's mass without affecting their volume is a pretty intrinsic change.

And, it's still largely affecting their organic matter.

Dragon grows arms back. He's also class 30 at least. Banhammer him.

Originally posted by SwindlingSmurph
Actually, doubling a person's mass without affecting their volume is a pretty intrinsic change.

And, it's still largely affecting their organic matter.

Agreed. There'd literally HAVE to be matter manipulation in order to double the density of a character.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Dragon grows arms back. He's also class 30 at least. Banhammer him.

Wolverine grows arms back and can dish out more damage than a thirty-tonner.

Would he have been banned in the tourney?

No where near as low as 30.

Wolverine grows arms back?

Originally posted by Soljer
Agreed. There'd literally HAVE to be matter manipulation in order to double the density of a character.
Not necessarily, it's more gravity distortion that changing the characters density.

Originally posted by Soljer
Wolverine grows arms back and can dish out more damage than a thirty-tonner.

Would he have been banned in the tourney?

Dragon is taking punches from a guy who threw an ENTIRE train !

Thats nothing.

Zeek ripped of Hercules arms, killed an entire squad of Gods. Then Dragon took a full punch from Zeek. Landed far away and got back very soon. That HC thread is helpful as hell.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Wolverine grows arms back?



You'd have to ask a Wolverine fan whether he's ever actually grown his ENTIRE arm back - but I know he's had every bit of flesh stripped off it, and regrew it within the space of a page or two.

However;

Wolverine grows every inch of flesh on his body back. Several times. He regrows hearts, lungs, and friggin spleens in less time than it takes to clip your nails. He's survived decapitation - a little more impressive than dismemberment.

Originally posted by grey fox
Dragon is taking punches from a guy who threw an ENTIRE train !

I wasn't arguing that he's allowable.

I was arguing that Trick's reasons weren't good enough to ban him.

How long does this phase last exactly?

Originally posted by Akuki
Not necessarily, it's more gravity distortion that changing the characters density.

I didn't say anything about gravity...

I mentioned that if the change was density, then it would have to be matter manipulation.

Regarding Jotaro, his durability isn't that great. It's the stand that takes the damage. And if the user takes damage, the stand takes damage, and vice-versa.

2nd, most of what Jotaro does is isn't beyond Spider-man level. Spidey dodges bullets at close range, he's lifted cars and braced giant shipping containers that weighted over 60 tons.

Originally posted by Soljer
I didn't say anything about gravity...

I mentioned that if the change was density, then it would have to be matter manipulation.
Allright then,just clarifying. Anyways, I think we should probably start organizing this a bit better, maybe tally the votes, etc.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Regarding Jotaro, his durability isn't that great. It's the stand that takes the damage. And if the user takes damage, the stand takes damage, and vice-versa.

2nd, most of what Jotaro does is isn't beyond Spider-man level. Spidey dodges bullets at close range, he's lifted cars and braced giant shipping containers that weighted over 60 tons.

Jotaro is a sixty tonner that can stop time, now?

Yeah, you're not making a very good case for yourself, in my humble opinion.

Who all is allowed to vote?

Anyone?

Participants only?

Participants and judges?

Are the votes 'fair' or 'weighted'?

Originally posted by grey fox
Dragon is taking punches from a guy who threw an ENTIRE train ! Wolverine takes punches from Hulk.

Originally posted by Soljer
Who all is allowed to vote?

Anyone?

Participants only?

Participants and judges?

Are the votes 'fair' or 'weighted'?
It needs 4/5ths vote from the participants to be referred to the judges, who have final say.

Originally posted by SwindlingSmurph
Wolverine takes punches from Hulk. Dragon is like a less powerful Hulk. Seriously the guy is strong.

Originally posted by Soljer
Jotaro is a sixty tonner that can stop time, now?

Yeah, you're not making a very good case for yourself, in my humble opinion.

Jotaro cannot stop time for almost the entire JJBA part 3 storyline. He only does it once, right at the end of the story. And I'm drafting him before that story arc.

Most of his feats are low end spidey level. He's got 1 or 2 that are venom level. You guys are seriously exagerating him. He's only human, no healing factor, no super durability, no super strength, no powers besides his stand, strong will and good damage soak. That's about it.

Originally posted by SwindlingSmurph
Wolverine takes punches from Hulk.

Wolverine get's away with it due to 3 things.

1. Indestructible skeleton

2. Rapid Healing

3. Fanboy Aura

Originally posted by Akuki
It needs 4/5ths vote from the participants to be referred to the judges, who have final say.

So, if 4/5ths of participants vote on it, it goes to the judges who ALSO have to have 4/5ths?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Jotaro cannot stop time for almost the entire JJBA part 3 storyline. He only does it once, right at the end of the story. And I'm drafting him before that story arc.

Most of his feats are low end spidey level. He's got 1 or 2 that are venom level. You guys are seriously exagerating him. He's only human, no healing factor, no super durability, no super strength, no powers besides his stand, strong will and good damage soak. That's about it.

Didn't he punch Dio OUT of a bus ?

Or is 90% of the power delegated to the Stand ?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Jotaro cannot stop time for almost the entire JJBA part 3 storyline. He only does it once, right at the end of the story. And I'm drafting him before that story arc.



Okay, then I draft Superman before he learned he could fly and shoot lasers out of his eyes. .

Neutering is against the rules.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Jotaro cannot stop time for almost the entire JJBA part 3 storyline. He only does it once, right at the end of the story. And I'm drafting him before that story arc.

Most of his feats are low end spidey level. He's got 1 or 2 that are venom level. You guys are seriously exagerating him. He's only human, no healing factor, no super durability, no super strength, no powers besides his stand, strong will and good damage soak. That's about it.
He's only a human with the ability to catch bullets fired from 2 inches away, able to see and catch items the size of bacteria, in one instance he was able to catch an opponent moving at lightspeed!!

We're using pre-isotope E QS.

Originally posted by Soljer
So, if 4/5ths of participants vote on it, it goes to the judges who ALSO have to have 4/5ths?
not sure, you'd have to check that part with Illdelph.

Originally posted by Akuki
not sure, you'd have to check that part with Illdelph.

Gahh, I need clarification. -_-.

Originally posted by Soljer
Okay, then I draft Superman before he learned he could fly and shoot lasers out of his eyes. .

Neutering is against the rules. Wouldn't that be allowed anyway?

Originally posted by grey fox
Didn't he punch Dio OUT of a bus ?

Or is 90% of the power delegated to the Stand ?

Most of the power comes from the stand. If you watch the anime and look carefully in the manga, you see the stand's outline when he does anything superhuman.

And it's not neutering, Soljer. Jotaro did not have the ability before the Dio's world story arc. Therefore, he cannot stop time if I draft him before he learned how from being FROZEN IN TIME by Dio.

Originally posted by grey fox
Wolverine get's away with it due to 3 things.

1. Indestructible skeleton

2. Rapid Healing

3. Fanboy Aura Bone Claw Wolverine?

Hmm... so he can heal so fast he doesn't really get affected by Hulk's punches the moment they happen... intriguing.

So, he had the Fanboy Aura in his first appearance?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Most of the power comes from the stand. If you watch the anime and look carefully in the manga, you see the stand's outline when he does anything superhuman.

And it's not neutering, Soljer. Jotaro did not have the ability before the Dio's world story arc. Therefore, he cannot stop time if I draft him before he learned how from being FROZEN IN TIME by Dio.

Let them vote. It's neutering in my eyes; no different from drafting Superman before he learned to fly.

Okay I'd like to know how many other people have problems with these two characters:
If you want to add your vote simply quote it, and feel free to add in other characters under debate

Against:
Savage Dragon: Akuki
Jotaro:Akuki

For:
Savage Dragon:
Jotaro:

Originally posted by grey fox
Wolverine get's away with it due to 3 things.

1. Indestructible skeleton

2. Rapid Healing

3. Fanboy Aura 1. Which is more durable than Dragon's hide

2. Which has much better feats than Dragon.

3. You do it enough, and it becomes the average. Now, how many times has Logan gone toe to toe with bricks?

Originally posted by Akuki
He's only a human with the ability to catch bullets fired from 2 inches away, able to see and catch items the size of bacteria, in one instance he was able to catch an opponent moving at lightspeed!!

Nobody moves at lightspeed except for J. Geil. And that was Polnareff who fought him.

He's never seen anything the size of bacteria.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Nobody moves at lightspeed except for J. Geil. And that was Polnareff who fought him.

He's never seen anything the size of bacteria.
Umm, Jotaro was the one who finally beat Geil I believe, and you're forgetting the guy with the stand that went into the opponents brain. Oh right I completely forgot that they showed the ability to shrink down to bacteria sizes and attack opponents from the inside out.

Originally posted by Akuki
Umm, Jotaro was the one who finally beat Geil I believe, and you're forgetting the guy with the stand that went into the opponents brain. Oh right I completely forgot that they showed the ability to shrink down to bacteria sizes and attack opponents from the inside out.

1. That was Polnareff. You're wrong.

2. Steely Dan's lovers stand. That was Polnareff and Kakyoin who did the shrinking trick, not Jotaro. Jotaro knew the stand was there because Kakyoin had tagged it with his stand's coils. and it wasn't bacteria sized. It was like a fly or an ant.

Originally posted by Akuki
Okay I'd like to know how many other people have problems with these two characters:
If you want to add your vote simply quote it, and feel free to add in other characters under debate

Against:
Savage Dragon: Akuki
Jotaro:Akuki

For:
Savage Dragon:
Jotaro:

Against Dragon for being too damn strong and having an insane Healing Factor.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
1. That was Polnareff. You're wrong.

2. Steely Dan's lovers stand. That was Polnareff and Kakyoin who did the shrinking trick, not Jotaro. Jotaro knew the stand was there because Kakyoin had tagged it with his stand's coils. and it wasn't bacteria sized. It was like a fly or an ant.
yes, it was shown that any stand could do it.
give me a sec to look up the fight, but I'm pretty damn certain that Jotaro did fight him.

Originally posted by grey fox
Against Dragon for being too damn strong and having an insane Healing Factor.
What's your opinion on Jotaro?

I don't want to have to find that website. But if it helps I will.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Objections: Darkhawk. That guy just killed Ultron in 2 shots.

Dupli-kate. Multiple Man is banned for a reason.

There is a "classic" Darkhawk and an upgraded Darkhawk

Obviously we would have the classic.


Oh and

Originally posted by Akuki
What's your opinion on Jotaro?

.....

Unsure on Jotaro. He seems to flucuate.

Originally posted by Akuki
Not necessarily, it's more gravity distortion that changing the characters density. Proof?

Because, you're changing a characters mass without affecting their volume, and organic matter manip was banned.

Originally posted by SwindlingSmurph
Proof?

Because, you're changing a characters mass without affecting their volume, and organic matter manip was banned.
Because you're simply changing a characters weight, not changing the total amount of mass or density that they have, that indicates it being a gravity manipulation.

Originally posted by Akuki
Because you're simply changing a characters weight, not changing the total amount of mass or density that they have, that indicates it being a gravity manipulation. Actually, that could easily indicate matter manipulation.

Unless, like I asked, you have proof that the density is unaffected...?

So wait, Darkhawk is not allowed because he destroyed Ultron?

You ARE aware that not every Ultron is made out of adamantium or any metal near its strength? I don't have enough fingers and toes to count how many Ultron incarnations there has been. This one was obviously one of the weakest. Didn't really see there anything that Spider-Man could not achieve, if pissed off enough. We ARE talking about fellow who made scrap metal out of Iron Man 2099.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
So wait, Darkhawk is not allowed because he destroyed Ultron?

You ARE aware that not every Ultron is made out of adamantium or any metal near its strength? I don't have enough fingers and toes to count how many Ultron incarnations there has been. This one was obviously one of the weakest. Didn't really see there anything that Spider-Man could not achieve, if pissed off enough. We ARE talking about fellow who made scrap metal out of Iron Man 2099.
I think darkhawk could make it in. If that feat is the only objection he really shoudl stay in.

Really looking forward to this

Originally posted by llagrok
Really looking forward to this Not the only one. Devourers at HC was very god, this should be interesting considering your all unknowns to me.

I am not sure what you are really on about with DH but he went fact to face with Iron Man.

I don't think Shinobi Shaw should be in this.

He's essentially Shadowcat meets Emma Frost.

Shinobi essentially has vision's density power. He even took out his old man with it.

Originally posted by SwindlingSmurph
I don't think Shinobi Shaw should be in this.

He's essentially Shadowcat meets Emma Frost.

True.

Yeah. So did Spider-Man.

Did I also mention that he beat Firelord?

Oh, and he beat Iron Man 2099 to bloody mess of scrap metal?

Or did I mention how he was about to take down Eric Masterson if he had not used lightning?

Or how he knocked down Class 80 Rhino, just by punching him until he fell?

Maybe I should tell you about the time he went against Prince Namor.

Should I mention his fights with Hulk?

Or Doctor Strange? Quasar?

How he went toe to toe against Fantastic Four and held his own?

How he defeated Man-Thing?

Knocked out D'Spayre?

She-Hulk? Silver Surfer? X-Man? The entire X-Men Classic Team? Absorbing Man? Blackheart? Crimson Dynamo? Digger? Doctor Doom? Dragon Man? Juggernaut?

Spider-Man is the milestone here, and I can assure you, when it comes to battle formidability, Darkhawk is NOT above Spider-Man. Some people do seem to underestimate him. It was the same thing with the last tournament I was in. Thanos was the milestone and most thought he was just one step above Surfer. He isn't.

There is a link under my sig, concerning Spider-Man. I suggest you to take a look at it.

Originally posted by SwindlingSmurph
I don't think Shinobi Shaw should be in this.

He's essentially Shadowcat meets Emma Frost.

And that makes him above caps how?

Intangibility wasn't banned. Neither was density manipulation.

And NO, he is NOT as formidable as Vision, not ANYWHERE near it.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Yeah. So did Spider-Man.

Did I also mention that he beat Firelord?

Oh, and he beat Iron Man 2099 to bloody mess of scrap metal?

Or did I mention how he was about to take down Eric Masterson if he had not used lightning?

Or how he knocked down Class 80 Rhino, just by punching him until he fell?

Maybe I should tell you about the time he went against Prince Namor.

Should I mention his fights with Hulk?

Or Doctor Strange? Quasar?

How he went toe to toe against Fantastic Four and held his own?

How he defeated Man-Thing?

Knocked out D'Spayre?

She-Hulk? Silver Surfer? X-Man? The entire X-Men Classic Team? Absorbing Man? Blackheart? Crimson Dynamo? Digger? Doctor Doom? Dragon Man? Juggernaut?

Spider-Man is the milestone here, and I can assure you, when it comes to battle formidability, Darkhawk is NOT above Spider-Man. Some people do seem to underestimate him. It was the same thing with the last tournament I was in. Thanos was the milestone and most thought he was just one step above Surfer. He isn't.

There is a link under my sig, concerning Spider-Man. I suggest you to take a look at it. I already have. I regally look at it.

Just pointing out something.

Sorry if I came off strong. That wasn't really directed at you personally, but to everyone participating here.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
And that makes him above caps how?

Intangibility wasn't banned. Neither was density manipulation.

And NO, he is NOT as formidable as Vision, not ANYWHERE near it. Because he can't be BFR'd, can simply go intangible and induce a heart attack, or turn diamond solid.

Shinobi nearly killed his father Sebastian with one heart strike.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Sorry if I came off strong. That wasn't really directed at you personally, but to everyone participating here. No problem....Devourer!

So, is Savage Dragon out?

Originally posted by SwindlingSmurph
Because he can't be BFR'd, can simply go intangible and induce a heart attack, or turn diamond solid.

So he apparently can't be BFR'd. That protects him from one tactic. Don't see how that makes him bannable. Sebastian Shaw can't be beaten by physical force. Should we ban him?

Yeah, he can go intangible and induce a heart attack. That again, is an avoidable attack. If you go that route, ANYONE here has an OHKO. You can have Karnak hit any weak point in me to induce a heart attack, or just take me down with one blow, if I am dumb enough to stand there and not do anything to it. Should he be banned?

Turn diamond solid? How again, is that bannable? I don't see it being on the rules. Being durable isn't a reason for banning. He can still be killed by multitude of different ways.

Our picks are, like I said, perfectly valid.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Shinobi nearly killed his father Sebastian with one heart strike.

Yeah, and Venom could have killed him with snapping his neck. Or Midnighter could have strangled him. Joker could have sprayed acid on him.

What is your point?

Me, you, akuki, fox, I'd say we got enough people to throw dragon out.

I think this should be shown: Has all his skin blown of from a big explosion and seems to be OK considering, he then goes back to the fight and wins if I rememeber.