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I thought up this fight on my own? No powers except TK, as in throwing objects at the opponent. Fight takes place in the senate chamber Sidious fought Yoda in.

Sidious wtf owns him with TK seeing that he lifted a super star destroyer(lusankya) which is 19 kilometers long while nihilus only possibly lifted the ravager

Originally posted by Thiru
Sidious wtf owns him with TK seeing that he lifted a super star destroyer(lusankya) which is 19 kilometers long while nihilus only possibly lifted the ravager When did Sidious do that? Was that the ROTS version?

Originally posted by vader11
When did Sidious do that? Was that the ROTS version? It is OT sidious, He lifted the lusankya, buried it in coruscant and mind raped billions of people making them forget what they saw

Originally posted by Thiru
It is OT sidious, He lifted the lusankya, buried it in coruscant and mind raped billions of people making them forget what they saw That's very impressive. Could ROTS Sidious do that as well? If yes, there's no doubt he could beat Nihilus.

IT Doesnt matter if ROTS Sids could or could not...though is very cool regardless.. Cannonly Sids has been declared the most powerful Sith EVER(by lucas)(however sad it seems and however dissapointed i am with lucas's ideas and decisions.)
we have to accept that fact and say Sids as Force and Saber skills no other sith can beat.

SIDS Win though Nihilus is up there

There's no doubt that Sidious is the most powerful Sith. But DE Sidious is much more pwerful than OT version and OT is more powerful than ROTS version. I think there maybe some siths that can beat ROTS Sidious.

Originally posted by vader11
There's no doubt that Sidious is the most powerful Sith. But DE Sidious is much more pwerful than OT version and OT is more powerful than ROTS version. I think there maybe some siths that can beat ROTS Sidious.

I'm curious to hear who you think that can take out ROTS Sidious

^Darth Caedus, maybe. There should be very very few siths that could beat ROTS Sidious(if any). Any suggestions?

EDIT

Originally posted by vader11
^Darth Caedus, maybe. There should be very very few siths that could beat ROTS Sidious(if any). Any suggestions? Darth caedus? Thats debatable, because the statements in The new essential chronology has yet to be retconned.

That's why I said maybe, and I think he may beat Sidious in a saber fight. Since there're some Jedi(very few though) who could beat ROTS Sidious, I think there may be some siths who may beat him too. Just a thought, I maybe wrong.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
I'm curious to hear who you think that can take out ROTS Sidious

Sith Lords that can take out ROTS Sidious ? I'd say that Exar Kun might have a good chance there. One could add Revan to the list and if you want to enter the realm of speculation, Ragnos would be another good candidate. Sidious, as he is in ROTS, is "just" the strongest Sith Lord of Bane's Order. He is the strongest Sith up to that point in his DE incarnation. And even that doesn't mean that he can archieve a guaranteed victory against every single Sith Lord that lived before him.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Sith Lords that can take out ROTS Sidious ? I'd say that Exar Kun might have a good chance there. One could add Revan to the list and if you want to enter the realm of speculation, Ragnos would be another good candidate. Sidious, as he is in ROTS, is "just" the strongest Sith Lord of Bane's Order. He is the strongest Sith up to that point in his DE incarnation. And even that doesn't mean that he can archieve a guaranteed victory against every single Sith Lord that lived before him.

Kun is the only one who someone could make a semi-decent case for. And the "guarenteed victory" goes without saying. There's no guarentee that Ragnos could take out Coleman Trebor.

Well I'm not sure that ROTS Sidious could defeat Nihilus in a purely TK fight. For one, Nihilus seems to be stronger in the Force than he is in lightsaber fighting, so he could still be weaker than Sidious overall but beat him in a purely Force fight such as this. However, this is only ROTS Sidious; DE Sidious would dominate Nihilus I think.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Well I'm not sure that ROTS Sidious could defeat Nihilus in a purely TK fight. For one, Nihilus seems to be stronger in the Force than he is in lightsaber fighting, so he could still be weaker than Sidious overall but beat him in a purely Force fight such as this. However, this is only ROTS Sidious; DE Sidious would dominate Nihilus I think.

DE Sidious would definitely dominate Darth Nihilus, but refering to RotS Sidious as ONLY RotS Sidious makes me think you're saying he's not very, very powerful, or at least not a match for Nihilus. Even though this is "only" RotS Sidious, he is still one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever, and I believe he could give Nihilus a very, very tough fight.

V2k has not stated which sidious so ill assume OT sidious or DE either of which will dominate nihilus

Originally posted by Thiru
V2k has not stated which sidious so ill assume OT sidious or DE either of which will dominate nihilus I clearly said ROTS.

Seriously, why do you call me V2k?

Oh dammit, sorry didn't see it clearly, was being blur.

I meant V2D not k so it was a mistype

Originally posted by GahLakTus
It is OT sidious, He lifted the lusankya, buried it in coruscant and mind raped billions of people making them forget what they saw

LOL! Even I didn't know this, what is this in? Also that's pwnage...Super Star Destroyers are insanely gigantic.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
LOL! Even I didn't know this, what is this in? Also that's pwnage...Super Star Destroyers are insanely gigantic. This occured during the OT i think, lightsnake brought up this issue when i spoke to him on msn.

EDIT

LOL! Nikkolas just got permanently banned from KMC

Where does it say Sidious lifted the SSD?

Originally posted by GahLakTus
LOL! Nikkolas just got permanently banned from KMC

What did he do?

He admitted being a pedophile...

Originally posted by 123KID
Where does it say Sidious lifted the SSD?

co-signed

Originally posted by Darth Hord
What did he do?

User banned by Raz, permanently

Reason: Admitting to pedophilia:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=9808088#post9808088

Originally posted by Utrigita
Reason: Admitting to pedophilia:Is that a joke?

No...

It was bullshit. Read the whole situation like I have. It was over sumthin Nik did 2 years ago on a different forum.

Originally posted by 123KID
Where does it say Sidious lifted the SSD? The time when the lusankya existed and executor constructed. 1ABY

Lets not forget that seeing the ship is so huge and immense, it is impossible to cloak a ship that size. Palpatine also didn't want other people including his own to know of the ships existence so he mind raped the billions of people on coruscant making them forget what they saw.


Face is V2K, sidious > your precious nihilus in all aspects. Weather in combat, TK, force knowledge, abilities, connection to the force.

Your nihilus is dead son, accept it

I know Sidious is more powerful than Nihilus, Sidious is more powerful than most. Also, isn't it possible, that after 40 years, he grew STRONGER in the Force during OT? So I hardly see how that feat is even relevant.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
I know Sidious is more powerful than Nihilus, Sidious is more powerful than most. Also, isn't it possible, that after 40 years, he grew STRONGER in the Force during OT? So I hardly see how that feat is even relevant. Doesnt change the fact sidious > nihilus.

Palpatine lifting a Super Star Destroyer is just plain badass. Thats all that needs to be said.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
The time when the lusankya existed and executor constructed. 1ABY

Lets not forget that seeing the ship is so huge and immense, it is impossible to cloak a ship that size. Palpatine also didn't want other people including his own to know of the ships existence so he mind raped the billions of people on coruscant making them forget what they saw.


Face is V2K, sidious > your precious nihilus in all aspects. Weather in combat, TK, force knowledge, abilities, connection to the force.

Your nihilus is dead son, accept it

I don't think you quiet answear the question.

Where does it say that Palpatine lifted the Super Star Destroyer Lusankya.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Sidious wtf owns him with TK seeing that he lifted a super star destroyer(lusankya) which is 19 kilometers long while nihilus only possibly lifted the ravager
Can you provide the exact quote or some sort of evidence showing that Sidious himself used the Force to lift that massive ship and burry it beneath the Coruscant?

As far as I know! Lusankya after being completed was taken to Coruscant and it was then placed in a "repulsorlift cradle" and than buried beneath that planet's surface. The cityscape was rebuilt over the ship afterwards to hide its location.

Palpatine was using the Force to cloak the entire event actually.

And according to Star Wars NEGC, this event is described on page 83 and the exact quote is:

"She renamed the vessel the Lusanyka, and with help from the Emperor's mind-fogging powers, Imperial engineers buried the tremendous battleship beneath the cityscape in Coruscant's Manari Mountain district."

Hence Darth Nihilus is so far the only Sith Lord who has been confirmed to have lifted a massive ship "Ravager" by purely using the Force.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Can you provide the exact quote or some sort of evidence showing that Sidious himself used the Force to lift that massive ship and burry it beneath the Coruscant?

As far as I know! Lusankya after being completed was taken to Coruscant and it was then placed in a "repulsorlift cradle" and than buried beneath that planet's surface. The cityscape was rebuilt over the ship afterwards to hide its location.

Palpatine was using the Force to cloak the entire event actually.

And according to Star Wars NEGC, this event is described on page 83 and the exact quote is:

"She renamed the vessel the Lusanyka, and with help from the Emperor's mind-fogging powers, Imperial engineers buried the tremendous battleship beneath the cityscape in Coruscant's Manari Mountain district."

Hence Darth Nihilus is so far the only Sith Lord who has been confirmed to have lifted a massive ship "Ravager" by purely using the Force. Ok doesn't change the fact that sidious still mind raped the inhabitants of coruscant making the forget what they saw, and this mind rape is in the millions seeing that coruscant is densely populated.

And since nihilus is the only one lifted a ship it doesn't mean he > sidious in pure TK, Vaders secret apprentice did the same thing to an even larger imperial star destroyer and he is weaker than both palpatine and vader

And even if the engineers did fly the ship and bury it in coruscant, it would take thousands of people to operate the ship, its been stated in star wars insider that it takes a crew of 1000 people to operate a mere venator star destroyer let alone some thing 17 times the size of that.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Ok doesn't change the fact that sidious still mind raped the inhabitants of coruscant making the forget what they saw, and this mind rape is in the millions seeing that coruscant is densely populated.


He could have used the same force ability that Luke used to shield planet Brath Qella and the Teljkon Vagabond along with vaders Fortress on Coruscant. Didn't you yourself stat that Palpatine had access to all the jedi Holocrons it is very likely that he learned the ability there.

And since nihilus is the only one lifted a ship it doesn't mean he > sidious in pure TK, Vaders secret apprentice did the same thing to an even larger imperial star destroyer and he is weaker than both palpatine and vader

He used the force to crashland a imperial stardestroyer, yet we have no idea of how he did it, he could have used the force to destroy the machinery that was used to keep the star destroyer in the air.

And even if the engineers did fly the ship and bury it in coruscant, it would take thousands of people to operate the ship, its been stated in star wars insider that it takes a crew of 1000 people to operate a mere venator star destroyer let alone some thing 17 times the size of that.

And why would that be a problem??? It's preferebly in my eyes to have a number of engineers piloting the thing and then kill them instead of mind raping millions of people on Coruscant.

Originally posted by Utrigita
He could have used the same force ability that Luke used to shield planet Brath Qella and the Teljkon Vagabond along with vaders Fortress on Coruscant. Didn't you yourself stat that Palpatine had access to all the jedi Holocrons it is very likely that he learned the ability there. Possible, but to cloak something that big depicts incredible power


Originally posted by Utrigita

He used the force to crashland a imperial stardestroyer, yet we have no idea of how he did it, he could have used the force to destroy the machinery that was used to keep the star destroyer in the air.
Yet we see him pulling the star destroyer towards him and subsequently stopping it with the force. That alone shows massive TK. If he just busted the engines and knocked out the pilots the ship wouldnt have plundered its way toward him and would just crash elsewhere unless he uses the force of course to pull it towards him which is what the video showed us

Originally posted by Utrigita

And why would that be a problem??? It's preferebly in my eyes to have a number of engineers piloting the thing and then kill them instead of mind raping millions of people on Coruscant. Learn how to read Utrigita , where does it state palpatine killed all those engineers, FYI it takes a thousand of people to operate a venator star destroyer let alone a super star destroyer 12 times the size of a victory class abd venator. So how is it he killed all those thousands of people and it went unreported. What about the people who saw the ship being buried? What about the people who saw the ship after it was buried?

Considering the immense population of coruscant and the sector the ship was buried in, people have definately seen the ship and why would it give reason for palpatine to kill thousands of people? He may have cloaked it with the force but he certeinly couldn't have kept it that way for years. He at one point of time must had stopped force cloaking the ship where the inhabitants of coruscant had seen it hence it gives him reason to wipe their memory making them forget what the saw.

Even in the movies im very sure palpatine used the dark side and clouded the vision of tens and thousands of jedi so why couldn't he cloud the minds of mere inhabitants?

Again even the quote legend kindly provided stated along with the help of palpatines mind fogging powers, this indicates he has mind raped the thousands who piloted the ship as well as the millions on that paticular sector where the lusankya was buried

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Possible, but to cloak something that big depicts incredible power

So a Super star destroyer is bigger then a Planet??? And it was stated that the cloaking shield Luke placed around the planet lasted for at least a hundred years.

Yet we see him pulling the star destroyer towards him and subsequently stopping it with the force. That alone shows massive TK. If he just busted the engines and knocked out the pilots the ship wouldnt have plundered its way toward him and would just crash elsewhere unless he uses the force of course to pull it towards him which is what the video showed us

So he pulled the Star destroyer towards him... Okay.

Learn how to read Utrigita , where does it stated palpatine killed all those engineers, FYI it takes a thousand of people to operate a venator star destroyer let alone a super star destroyer 12 times the size of a victory class abd venator. So how is it he killed all those thousands of people and it went unreported. What about the people who saw the ship being buried? What about the people who saw the ship after it was buried?

Considering the immense population of coruscant and the sector the ship was buried in, people have definately seen the ship and why would it give reason for palpatine to kill thousands of people? He may have cloaked it with the force but he certeinly couldn't have kept it that way for years. He at one point of time must had stopped force cloaking the ship where the inhabitants of coruscant had seen it hence it gives him reason to wipe their memory making them forget what the saw.

Even in the movies im very sure palpatine used the dark side and clouded the vision of tens and thousands of jedi so why couldn't he cloud the minds of mere inhabitants?

Again even the quote legend kindly provided stated along with the help of palpatines mind fogging powers, this indicates he has mind raped the thousands who piloted the ship as well as the millions on that paticular sector where the lusankya was buried

It required 279,144 to operate to full capacity that includes gunners etc. Star Wars behind the magic.

Though it is not known how the Empire was able to keep such an immense project hidden, it is presumed that either all the witnesses were executed, or that Emperor Palpatine used the Force on a massive scale to command everyone to forget what they saw. source X-wing: The Krytos Trap.

Choose what you want I find it most likely that the emperor

1. used the earlier mentioned force technique to shield the ship. Ore utilized the cloaking field that Thrawn found on Wayland to shield the ship.
2. Executed all that knew about it.

And then again Starwars.com Databank says something entirely different.

The Lusankya was actually a functional Super Star Destroyer secretly constructed beneath the towering skylines of Coruscant.

Originally posted by Utrigita
So a Super star destroyer is bigger then a Planet??? And it was stated that the cloaking shield Luke placed around the planet lasted for at least a hundred years. Did i say that? Learn to read you fu*king idiot. I said for someone to cloak something that big it shows incredible power. Now obviously luke and sidious are considered "force gods" hence they could do that. And luke, being far superior to sidious could cloak a planet for 100 years means so what? Nothing at all indicates that sidious could have done what luke has done seeing luke surpasses sidious by miles in raw power alone.


Originally posted by Utrigita

So he pulled the Star destroyer towards him... Okay. A ship the same size as the ravager, still he shifted an object as large as a ship



Originally posted by Utrigita

It required 279,144 to operate to full capacity that includes gunners etc. Star Wars behind the magic. Still it would take at the very least, tens and thousands of people to pilot the ship, it would not take mere a "few" as you tried to put it out.
Originally posted by Utrigita

Though it is not known how the Empire was able to keep such an immense project hidden, it is presumed that either all the witnesses were executed, or that Emperor Palpatine used the Force on a massive scale to command everyone to forget what they saw. source X-wing: The Krytos Trap. And its word for word in wookiepedia. Again how is palpatine going to "execute" tens and thousands of engineers who piloted the ship without going it getting reported? How is he going to execute the thousands in total secrecy? Again the mind raping issue is brought in. Why would he kill thousands of imperial troops when he can easily mind trick all of them and not waste the lives of imperial personal when he can use them in future?

Again the inhabitants of coruscant would have still seen the ship, it could not be cloaked forever and even if it was, how does it evade radar? How does it completely evade the trillions of people in coruscant? Some one is sure to have seen it considering the immense population


Originally posted by Utrigita

1. used the earlier mentioned force technique to shield the ship. Ore utilized the cloaking field that Thrawn found on Wayland to shield the ship. No ship that size in the 25 thousand years of star wars inuniverse history has it ever been shown that a 19 000 ship can be cloaked with a cloaking generator, neither has any sources stated the SSD clases can be cloaked. Seeing that the lesser smaller star destoryers has never been shown to cloak, I don't see why the bigger ones like the lusankya and executor can

Originally posted by Utrigita

2. Executed all that knew about it. Wow so he executed the thousands who piloted the ship and the inhabitants of coruscant, i guess its no wonder why advent called you one of the most idiotic posters in KMC
Originally posted by Utrigita

And then again Starwars.com Databank says something entirely different.

The Lusankya was actually a functional Super Star Destroyer secretly constructed beneath the towering skylines of Coruscant. Again even if it was constructed, it would have taken years and if palpatine were to cloak the ship, how would have the engineers been able to see what the were building!? And it takes thousands to build a ship this big for your information, did he execute all of them too? No, What about the people who saw the ship getting built? The millions of inhabitants? Did they get executed too? No.


Advice: Shut the hell up

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Did i say that? Learn to read you fu*king idiot. I said for someone to cloak something that big it shows incredible power. Now obviously luke and sidious are considered "force gods" hence they could do that. And luke, being far superior to sidious could cloak a planet for 100 years means so what? Nothing at all indicates that sidious could have done what luke has done seeing luke surpasses sidious by miles in raw power alone.

I means that if they according to you are force gods then it is a possibility to cloak the SSD with the force, and 100 years wouldn't be required. Actually it does didn't you yourself state that he had archieved Jedi Holocrons and since it is a jedi technique...

Still it would take at the very least, tens and thousands of people to pilot the ship, it would not take mere a "few" as you tried to put it out.
And its word for word in wookiepedia. Again how is palpatine going to "execute" tens and thousands of engineers who piloted the ship without going it getting reported? How is he going to execute the thousands in total secrecy? Again the mind raping issue is brought in. Why would he kill thousands of imperial troops when he can easily mind trick all of them and not waste the lives of imperial personal when he can use them in future?

Because a Mind rape in Star wars isn't complete, certain experiences can bring the experiences back to live. Els I don't think numorous sources would mention the executing part...

Again the inhabitants of coruscant would have still seen the ship, it could not be cloaked forever and even if it was, how does it evade radar? How does it completely evade the trillions of people in coruscant? Some one is sure to have seen it considering the immense population

Seen a ship that is cloaked with the Force like Luke did to a planet... and someone is very different from millions of people, Evades radar, who controls the radar... Oh thats right the empire.

No ship that size in the 25 thousand years of star wars inuniverse history has it ever been shown that a 19 000 ship can be cloaked with a cloaking generator, neither has any sources stated the SSD clases can be cloaked. Seeing that the lesser smaller star destoryers has never been shown to cloak, I don't see why the bigger ones like the lusankya and executor can

It was a suggestion, and you are incorrect in the Thrawn Trilogy where Mara and Luke destroyed Thrawns clone, three star destroyers was hiding at near by astroids with cloaking fields. So you assesment isn't true.

Wow so he executed the thousands who piloted the ship and the inhabitants of coruscant, i guess its no wonder why advent called you one of the most idiotic posters in KMC

Again you totally misunderstood my post, I merely stated that I found it most likely that he executed those who knew of the work that was preformed by

Well maybe I am and so what??? are it illegal to make a mistake???


Advice: Shut the hell up

My last post to you GahLakTus.

Last thing you asked about how he could kill all the people without the families getting suspecious, The fair easiest way would be to say they where killed in action.

I'm confused as to the point you're attempting to make, Utrigita. TEGC makes it explicitly clear that Palpatine used his mind fogging powers to command Coruscant to forget the burying of the Lusyanka. There is nothing but supposition from Wedge Antilles that Palpatine executed personnel. Canon sources > supposition.

Originally posted by Gideon
I'm confused as to the point you're attempting to make, Utrigita. TEGC makes it explicitly clear that Palpatine used his mind fogging powers to command Coruscant to forget the burying of the Lusyanka. There is nothing but supposition from Wedge Antilles that Palpatine executed personnel. Canon sources > supposition.

Okaay thanks Gideon I was under the impression that GahLakTus was making a assesment on what happend, without having on concrete to use...

Sorry GahLakTus I misunderstood you...

I've been meaning to address this issue for some time and I'm rather glad you've brought it up. The notion that Luke Skywalker (and to a lesser extent, Darth Sidious) is somehow miles and miles ahead of everyone is a delusion that we have all (myself included) seemed to indulge at times. Sadly, this notion is not supported by canon fact and events. Furthermore, it is an extreme and gross exaggeration to pretend otherwise.

We have had circumstances in which Luke Skywalker has been disarmed and hard-pressed to defeat certain opponents -- Lumiya, for example -- who are not supergods themselves. Lumiya is mostly a cyborg, with her only true power coming from her relatively impressive knowledge of the Force, her "Force phantoms", things that are highly taxing and ritualistic in nature. Is she a skilled duelist? Certainly, though roughly in the same regard that General Grievous was: her robotic implants give her a certain inhuman stamina and reflexes. The point is that she is not "upper tier" when it comes to characters from the mythos. Skywalker is fallible as a duelist and as a character in general. For all of his unrivaled power and potential, Lumiya put him to the test because she fought smarter than him and used the circumstances to compensate for a disadvantage. However, if Skywalker were truly a "god", it wouldn't have mattered. So the notion that he could take on the likes of Sidious, Yoda, Mace, Obi-Wan, Revan, and Bane all at the same time is simply stupid and without merit at all.

Likewise, the same applies for DE Sidious. In a "pure lightsaber contest", no, I don't fancy him blitzing through upper tier Jedi or Sith. Beating most of them in single confrontations? Yes, much like Luke. But owning them all? No.

And the notion that Luke's raw power is a substitute for years of training and expertise is ridiculous. While I have no problem conceding the fact that Luke is more powerful than Yoda, do you really think he compares -- even remotely -- to the Jedi Master in terms of knowledge or finesse or expertise? No. I'd probably even speculate that Luke might be a novice when it comes to the traditional forms because of how poor his knowledge base was. In a single confrontation, yes, he'd best Yoda. Though when we really stop to put it in perspective, it could be a hard duel.

Even DE Sidious vs. Yoda. In a single confrontation? I'm sure Sidious would win. But it wouldn't be ownage.

Likewise, I don't see any true example of Luke being "far superior" to DE Sidious. Lest we forget folks, Skywalker's most devastating moments still pale in comparison to Sidious's Force Storms which are, according to the narration, but a fraction of Sidious's power.

Luke'd probably best Sidious in a duel and an all out fight and both of them are more powerful than any other SW character. But really, there are combinations of foes who could do them in and who could overwhelm them.

Originally posted by Gideon
I've been meaning to address this issue for some time and I'm rather glad you've brought it up. The notion that Luke Skywalker (and to a lesser extent, Darth Sidious) is somehow miles and miles ahead of everyone is a delusion that we have all (myself included) seemed to indulge at times. Sadly, this notion is not supported by canon fact and events. Furthermore, it is an extreme and gross exaggeration to pretend otherwise.

We have had circumstances in which Luke Skywalker has been disarmed and hard-pressed to defeat certain opponents -- Lumiya, for example -- who are not supergods themselves. Lumiya is mostly a cyborg, with her only true power coming from her relatively impressive knowledge of the Force, her "Force phantoms", things that are highly taxing and ritualistic in nature. Is she a skilled duelist? Certainly, though roughly in the same regard that General Grievous was: her robotic implants give her a certain inhuman stamina and reflexes. The point is that she is not "upper tier" when it comes to characters from the mythos. Skywalker is fallible as a duelist and as a character in general. For all of his unrivaled power and potential, Lumiya put him to the test because she fought smarter than him and used the circumstances to compensate for a disadvantage. However, if Skywalker were truly a "god", it wouldn't have mattered. So the notion that he could take on the likes of Sidious, Yoda, Mace, Obi-Wan, Revan, and Bane all at the same time is simply stupid and without merit at all.

Likewise, the same applies for DE Sidious. In a "pure lightsaber contest", no, I don't fancy him blitzing through upper tier Jedi or Sith. Beating most of them in single confrontations? Yes, much like Luke. But owning them all? No.

And the notion that Luke's raw power is a substitute for years of training and expertise is ridiculous. While I have no problem conceding the fact that Luke is more powerful than Yoda, do you really think he compares -- even remotely -- to the Jedi Master in terms of knowledge or finesse or expertise? No. I'd probably even speculate that Luke might be a novice when it comes to the traditional forms because of how poor his knowledge base was. In a single confrontation, yes, he'd best Yoda. Though when we really stop to put it in perspective, it could be a hard duel.

Even DE Sidious vs. Yoda. In a single confrontation? I'm sure Sidious would win. But it wouldn't be ownage.

Likewise, I don't see any true example of Luke being "far superior" to DE Sidious. Lest we forget folks, Skywalker's most devastating moments still pale in comparison to Sidious's Force Storms which are, according to the narration, but a fraction of Sidious's power.

Luke'd probably best Sidious in a duel and an all out fight and both of them are more powerful than any other SW character. But really, there are combinations of foes who could do them in and who could overwhelm them.
I must admit ... This is an excellent assessment about Luke and Sidious and without any signs of fanboyism in it. My view-point about these two characters is also similar.

It is true that Luke and Sidious are pure monsters in combat but people tend to forget that even these two are not infallible.

Another tough test for Luke is Caedus. In in case of raw power, Luke is clearly superior to Caedus but still Caedus put up a good fight against him and managed to injure him badly in a single duel.

A similar situation was in the duel between Mara and Caedus.

Anyways! It is good to see return of common sense in this forum.

Now making tall claims like Sidious would WTFpwn Nihilus in a pure Force combat is a very far-fetched assumption. Nihilus was a Force titan as well and have performed several impressive Force moves that very few Sith Lords could match. Now in a single combat, Sidious would indeed defeat him but the fight won't be so easy and it could possibly be a hard match.

I'll be honest, LeGenD, you are one of the most biased forum-goers I've ever encountered. Your perspective is only "similar" to mine in that you've tried to distort fact and circumstances to benefit characters that you prefer, ie: Revan and KotOR-affiliated individuals. While I think that Thiru and company have, at times, exaggerated the power of Luke Skywalker and Darth Sidious, he's right in that there is no single individual who equals or really comes close to them in power. There is a small cluster of individuals who could give them trouble in certain categories and under special circumstances, and there are combinations of foes who could overwhelm them -- but there is no single person who rivals them. Nihilus included.



This is true. But their fallibility stems are purely psychological rather than combat-related. Luke has been injured in combat primarily because his opponent will use cheap tactics in an attempt to compensate for the power disparity. Likewise, when these factors are removed, I'd argue that only the Emperor could rival Luke in any circumstance. Consider what he did to Lumiya after he came under the assumption that she killed Mara Jade; he butchered her effortlessly. Likewise, Emperor Palpatine's fallibility comes from hubris. Every time he has come close to defeat or has been defeated in the SW universe is not because he was at a disadvantage or lacked the power to win, except that he miscalculated.



An example of Luke's psychological fallibility rather than combat prowess. He went in, guns o' blazing, and still kicked ass. Jacen only managed to injure Luke because he's a clever fighter rather than any true combat merits.



Somewhat. The confrontation between Mara Jade and Darth Caedus wasn't so much a "duel" as it was a brawl. The omniscient narrator makes it explicitly clear that Mara's Force powers were "crude" compared to Jacen's and it seems apparent from on panel evidence that she couldn't have hoped to beat him in a pure lightsaber match. However, Jacen's training was primarily Jedi-based at the time. Most of Lumiya's and Vergere's lessons were purely psychological and philosophical, whereas Mara Jade and Lumiya themselves were trained on Sith-based combat principles by Emperor Palpatine. They were trained to utilize environments, peoples, exploit weaknesses. If they can't win a "duel", then they don't "duel" at all. They manipulate the circumstances of the situation to benefit them. It's a no-brainer that she outwitted him and outthought him, even though Jacen's a truly brilliant individual. Being a genius or even a skilled tactition doesn't mean that one is a smart fighter. Mara and Lumiya are among the cleverest fighters in the mythos.



Common sense has been here for a while.



The difference is that nothing has indicated that Nihilus is prodigious or skilled at all outside of his drain and telekinesis, whereas Sidious is pretty much a natural in most areas of the Force, and a knowledge base that exceeds everything Nihilus has at his disposal. Sidious really does outclass him when you look at it from a perspective, and since he can match Nihilus's strengths, it really isn't a close fight. Not really.

Wow, that was an unexpected reply from Gideon! haermm

Originally posted by Gideon
I'll be honest, LeGenD, you are one of the most biased forum-goers I've ever encountered. Your perspective is only "similar" to mine in that you've tried to distort fact and circumstances to benefit characters that you prefer, ie: Revan and KotOR-affiliated individuals. While I think that Thiru and company have, at times, exaggerated the power of Luke Skywalker and Darth Sidious, he's right in that there is no single individual who equals or really comes close to them in power. There is a small cluster of individuals who could give them trouble in certain categories and under special circumstances, and there are combinations of foes who could overwhelm them -- but there is no single person who rivals them. Nihilus included.
I have stopped arguing for Revan because I feel that we need more information about him to determine his true combat abilities.

I have never said that any person rivals Sidious or Luke in terms of power. If you think that I have assumed such a thing, than you are wrong.

And if I am biased in case of KOTOR characters, than my level of biasedness is also within limits because I do acknowledge the fundamentals of SW mythos that have been clearly defined by canon soures.

Originally posted by Gideon
This is true. But their fallibility stems are purely psychological rather than combat-related. Luke has been injured in combat primarily because his opponent will use cheap tactics in an attempt to compensate for the power disparity. Likewise, when these factors are removed, I'd argue that only the Emperor could rival Luke in any circumstance. Consider what he did to Lumiya after he came under the assumption that she killed Mara Jade; he butchered her effortlessly. Likewise, Emperor Palpatine's fallibility comes from hubris. Every time he has come close to defeat or has been defeated in the SW universe is not because he was at a disadvantage or lacked the power to win, except that he miscalculated.
Even in SW mythos, every character have some sort of weaknesses in them (psychological or physical) that can be exploited but it depends upon circumstances. Characters grow and change with passage of time and so does their experience and expertise.

Lumiya was no match for Luke in pure combat prowess. But under favorable circumstances, she was able to injure Luke too. So the outcome of fights are not just solely determined by power factor. What you are saying also represents my point of view, though your way of explaining is different from mine.

Originally posted by Gideon
An example of Luke's psychological fallibility rather than combat prowess. He went in, guns o' blazing, and still kicked ass. Jacen only managed to injure Luke because he's a clever fighter rather than any true combat merits.
You should understand that to put up some fight against Luke for a certain period of time and managing to injure him during the duel requires some notable degree of skill in combat and experience along with intelligence. Caedus is no push-over for any person in his age in case of combat prowess apart from Luke. The rest are just secondary explainations.

Originally posted by Gideon
Somewhat. The confrontation between Mara Jade and Darth Caedus wasn't so much a "duel" as it was a brawl. The omniscient narrator makes it explicitly clear that Mara's Force powers were "crude" compared to Jacen's and it seems apparent from on panel evidence that she couldn't have hoped to beat him in a pure lightsaber match. However, Jacen's training was primarily Jedi-based at the time. Most of Lumiya's and Vergere's lessons were purely psychological and philosophical, whereas Mara Jade and Lumiya themselves were trained on Sith-based combat principles by Emperor Palpatine. They were trained to utilize environments, peoples, exploit weaknesses. If they can't win a "duel", then they don't "duel" at all. They manipulate the circumstances of the situation to benefit them. It's a no-brainer that she outwitted him and outthought him, even though Jacen's a truly brilliant individual. Being a genius or even a skilled tactition doesn't mean that one is a smart fighter. Mara and Lumiya are among the cleverest fighters in the mythos.
I do know that Caedus was superior to Mara in case of combat prowess, but Mara was more experienced and smart and hence managed to get an upperhand in the duel. Though Caedus was not an idiot either and knew how to exploit situations to gain advantage.

As far as Revan is concerned, he was indeed a smart fighter too. No wonder he managed to overcome several hard challenges during his stay at Taris without the use of the Force, which even amazed Bastilla.

Originally posted by Gideon
Common sense has been here for a while.
Fanboyism have taken its hold more often then common sense in this forum and I admit that I was a part of it too but no longer.

Originally posted by Gideon
The difference is that nothing has indicated that Nihilus is prodigious or skilled at all outside of his drain and telekinesis, whereas Sidious is pretty much a natural in most areas of the Force, and a knowledge base that exceeds everything Nihilus has at his disposal. Sidious really does outclass him when you look at it from a perspective, and since he can match Nihilus's strengths, it really isn't a close fight. Not really.
No one is arguing about Sidious being better then Nihilus. He is called the the most powerful Sith Lord for a reason. Though I would not say the this fight would be easy for Sidious. You need to keep in mind that Nihilus was no push-over in combat for any person in his time. It took 3 powerful warriors to bring him down and during that duel, he was weakened twice before being defeated. Though I understand that we need to know some more about his skill with a Light Saber.

All we know about Nihilus' saber style is that he uses one hand, so he is a possible Makashi duelist.

Also, Nihilus is powerful with the Force, his TK feat and his Kataar killing feat prove that.

EDIT.

Seeing that gideon posted concrete evidence of the lusankya, ill concede

Originally posted by Gideon


We have had circumstances in which Luke Skywalker has been disarmed and hard-pressed to defeat certain opponents -- Lumiya, for example -- who are not supergods themselves. Lumiya is mostly a cyborg, with her only true power coming from her relatively impressive knowledge of the Force, her "Force phantoms", things that are highly taxing and ritualistic in nature. Is she a skilled duelist? Certainly, though roughly in the same regard that General Grievous was: her robotic implants give her a certain inhuman stamina and reflexes. The point is that she is not "upper tier" when it comes to characters from the mythos. Skywalker is fallible as a duelist and as a character in general. For all of his unrivaled power and potential, Lumiya put him to the test because she fought smarter than him and used the circumstances to compensate for a disadvantage. However, if Skywalker were truly a "god", it wouldn't have mattered. So the notion that he could take on the likes of Sidious, Yoda, Mace, Obi-Wan, Revan, and Bane all at the same time is simply stupid and without merit at all.
Couldn't luke easily destroy lumiya if he wanted to?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

No one is arguing about Sidious being better then Nihilus. He is called the the most powerful Sith Lord for a reason. Though I would not say the this fight would be easy for Sidious. You need to keep in mind that Nihilus was no push-over in combat for any person in his time. It took 3 powerful warriors to bring him down and during that duel, he was weakened twice before being defeated. Though I understand that we need to know some more about his skill with a Light Saber. You know, if sidious hides his force sensitivity and masks his force bond, nihilus wouldn't be able to touch nor break it and thats when his technique would become useless. As for telekenesis sidious would outmatch him there given the various sources which stated his superiority.

Sidious can walk up to nihilus undetectable through the force and sight and easily slaughter him with a lightsaber.

So all i see that nihilus has against people who learned the fallanasi technique is pure TK.

EDIT

Originally posted by GahLakTus
You know, if sidious hides his force sensitivity and masks his force bond, nihilus wouldn't be able to touch nor break it and thats when his technique would become useless.
Nihilus knows other forms of Drain Life techniques as well. He will use those techniques in combat, if his main technique will not work.

He actually used Force Sever ability on Darth Traya to prevent her from using the Force during combat.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
As for telekenesis sidious would outmatch him there given the various sources which stated his superiority.
We don't know for sure. It is safe to conclude that Darth Sidious can defeat him in an all out fight but in a pure TK contest, this fight would be very hard for even Sidious.

Let us be realistic and should look at all aspects of things and not just put too much faith on few statements.

Being most powerful does not means that Sidious out-classes every other living being in everything. He was not immortal.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Sidious can walk up to nihilus undetectable through the force and sight and easily slaughter him with a lightsaber.
If Sidious could do this so easily, than why does he not use these abilities during his duels with maximum impact?

We have seen Sidious fight on various occassions and he always fights openly and aggressively.

Though he would surely defeat Nihilus in a pure Light Saber duel.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
So all i see that nihilus has against people who learned the fallanasi technique is pure TK.
Do not under-estimate his TK abilities. A person who can lift a huge ship with the Force, can surely do amazing things in combat.

Nihilus wins quite easily. His lifting of a fleet, including the insanely huge Ravager, is only outmatched by displays of TK from Luke Skywalker, Kyp Durron, and possibly Darth Bane. Nothing Sidious or the other PT Force Users have done with TK even comes close, and Nihilus generally outclasses that era with the force based on showings and statements.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Nihilus knows other forms of Drain Life techniques as well. He will use those techniques in combat, if his main technique will not work. Though it would not effect sidious as greatly as you want it to be seeing he is stated to be far superior to nihilus
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

He actually used Force Sever ability on Darth Traya to prevent her from using the Force during combat. And sidious can do the same to nihilus, only that he can do the same exact thing nihilus does, destroy the force bond completely killing him instantly

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

We don't know for sure. It is safe to conclude that Darth Sidious can defeat him in an all out fight but in a pure TK contest, this fight would be very hard for even Sidious.

Let us be realistic and should look at all aspects of things and not just put too much faith on few statements.

Being most powerful does not means that Sidious out-classes every other living being in everything. He was not immortal. Sorry but sidious out classes him in every aspect of the force hence he us labeled the most powerful sith lord in history .
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


If Sidious could do this so easily, than why does he not use these abilities during his duels with maximum impact?

We have seen Sidious fight on various occassions and he always fights openly and aggressively. Did sidious know the fallanasi technique and many others during his duel in ROTS? No.
Was it necessary for him to use it against the 100 storm troopers and the 3 sith acolytes? No.

And as for the duel in DE, it was his personal preference for just engaging him in a pure saber duel, as it was vader's as it was nihilus in K2 when he could have used TK to pwn the exile.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Though it would not effect sidious as greatly as you want it to be seeing he is stated to be far superior to nihilus
Of-course other techniques will not effect Sidious as much as his main technique. But his Force Sever ability is still highly effective in combat situations.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
And sidious can do the same to nihilus, only that he can do the same exact thing nihilus does, destroy the force bond completely killing him instantly
No kind of Draining technique can work on Nihilus because he is also a "Wound in the Force."

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Sorry but sidious out classes him in every aspect of the force hence he us labeled the most powerful sith lord in history .
This is a very narrow minded view.

I told you before that Sidious does not out-classes every other Sith Lord in every thing. Sidious from "over all" perspective is the most powerful Sith Lord.

Show me one example of Sidious lifting up a huge ship with the Force like Nihilus did.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Did sidious know the fallanasi technique and many others during his duel in ROTS? No.
If this fallanasi technique is so effective in combat situations, then why don't you show me an example of Luke using it in duels against powerful enemies?

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Was it necessary for him to use it against the 100 storm troopers and the 3 sith acolytes? No.
Different Sith Lords will use different techniques against enemies in combat. It is a matter of psychology. Sidious is adept at Force Lightning and uses it lot more then many other techniques that he knows during duels.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
And as for the duel in DE, it was his personal preference for just engaging him in a pure saber duel, as it was vader's as it was nihilus in K2 when he could have used TK to pwn the exile.
So if he prefers to use conventional means to fight his enemies, I am afraid that Nihilus will give him a hard challenge. Since Nihilus will try to use his Force techniques first on him.

And Nihilus preferred to use his main power first on Exile. And when that did not work, he had no choice but to rely on other means to fight Exile.

But that was a 3 vs 1 situation and Nihilus was already weakened. So you can't declare that Nihilus is a push-over for any person in combat.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Of-course other techniques will not effect Sidious as much as his main technique. But his Force Sever ability is still highly effective in combat situations.
And sidious too has force sever, tell me. How is nihilus going to cut off an opponent superior to him in the force? For a mere force sever technique to be done on somebody like the exile, it took 3 jedi masters inferior to her power to even attempt to do so
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

No kind of Draining technique can work on Nihilus because he is also a "Wound in the Force."
His "wound in the force" status wouldn't save him from palpatines instant kill lightning or other ancient sith techniques

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I told you before that Sidious does not out-classes every other Sith Lord in every thing. Sidious from "over all" perspective is the most powerful Sith Lord. It does mean however he greatly surpasses nihilus in just about every aspect of the force. Power, knowlesge, techniques, strength.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Show me one example of Sidious lifting up
a huge ship with the Force like Nihilus did. Just because he doesn't show he did it doesn't mean he can't. Again even the loading screen never said how nihilus lifted the ship from the gravity well, we are all assuming he used the force. Oh right yoda lifted a mountain bigger than the ravager with little effort, and DE sidious is far superior to yoda

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

If this fallanasi technique is so effective in combat situations, then why don't you show me an example of Luke using it in duels against powerful enemies? Did you know it was not necessary for luke to use this technique? Seeing he could easily kill any opponent he wanted to? If you want to bring up the point "Oh but he didnt use it against lumiya", its simply because he did not go all out and he has hinted that at any moment he could have easily and effortlessly kill her and caedus whom is superior to lumiya.

FYI, he did not go all out with caedus either. And why would he need to use the fallanasi technique if his opponent cannot touch his force bond and break it?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Different Sith Lords will use different techniques against enemies in combat. It is a matter of psychology. Sidious is adept at Force Lightning and uses it lot more then many other techniques that he knows during duels. And his lightning by dark empire is enough to annihilate 100 storm troopers, reduce 3 force users to dust and the fact that by merely lowering the intensity, he could knock luke skywalker to his knees as well as the fact reconnect himself to the force

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

So if he prefers to use conventional means to fight his enemies, I am afraid that Nihilus will give him a hard challenge. Since Nihilus will try to use his Force techniques first on him.
I'm afraid that nihilus wouldnt be able to even give sidious a tough time, seeing he gets outclassed in every aspect of the force, that he is fighting an opponent whom has unlimited power that he is fighting an opponent that can hide his force bond and become invisible being able to walk up to nihilus undetected by any means and proceed to annihilate him.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And Nihilus preferred to use his main power first on Exile. And when that did not work, he had no choice but to rely on other means to fight Exile. What other force powers? Sadly his main power wouldn't even harm sidious seeing that his bond would be hidden as if sidious is not connected to the force
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

But that was a 3 vs 1 situation and Nihilus was already weakened. So you can't declare that Nihilus is a push-over for any person in combat. And how tough was the battle? Sorry but he is fighting 3 opponents far weaker than he is, in this scenario, he is fighting some one far more powerful than he is

And to add to what i posted, what else has nihilus demonstrated which is remarkable other than his force breaking ability and his TK? Sidious greatly surpassed him there simply because nothing indicates that nihilus is skilled in other areas of the force.

You can't take two feats of nihilus and dispute that the other areas of the force are the same caliber/level , thats like taking bastila's battle meditation and using it to dispute her force lightning "super-dangerous" or the fact that it means she is a power house despite the fact that malak easily subdued her when she attacked him.

And seeing that sidious is superior to nihilus, i don't see why he can't cancel out nihilus TK attacks seeing that vader did it to forte and kulka in RODV when they tried to use TK to influence the course of his lightsaber and grab it from him

All i see really legend is pure telekenesis that nihilus is going to use in this fight seeing that sidious would mask his force bond which will render nihilus force bond breaking ability useless, and the fact that once sidious does that, he can't be sensed through the force and with the fact that he could render himself invicible physically

Originally posted by GahLakTus
And sidious too has force sever, tell me. How is nihilus going to cut off an opponent superior to him in the force? For a mere force sever technique to be done on somebody like the exile, it took 3 jedi masters inferior to her power to even attempt to do so
Being superior is not the correct answer. Unless Sidious knows a defensive technique that can counter the affect of "Force Sever" technique, he would be in trouble.

And ROTS Sidious is not very good at defending against powerful attacks. A simple Force Push from Yoda send him flying accross the room, as an example. And "Force Sever" technique is far more lethal or dangerous.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
His "wound in the force" status wouldn't save him from palpatines instant kill lightning or other ancient sith techniques
This is besides the point.

And Nihilus also knows some good offensive techniques.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
It does mean however he greatly surpasses nihilus in just about every aspect of the force. Power, knowlesge, techniques, strength.
Much about the Nihilus is shrouded in mystery.

Sidious is surely better then Nihilus but to what extent, we can't say for sure. Because whatever Nihilus does, he is also really good at it.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Just because he doesn't show he did it doesn't mean he can't.
This is an assumption. Just because X performed a feat, it does not means that Y would also do the same.

Since this thread is about ROTS incarnation of Sidious, I doubt that he has demonstrated this level of power by that time.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Again even the loading screen never said how nihilus lifted the ship from the gravity well, we are all assuming he used the force. Oh right yoda lifted a mountain bigger than the ravager with little effort, and DE sidious is far superior to yoda
Check the title of this thread carefully. It refers to ROTS Sidious.

And Yoda did that feat in Star Wars Cartoon, in which the powers of the Jedi are massively exaggerated. In the G-canon AOTC, Yoda was having a hard time in preventing a crane to fall on the two ill-fated Jedi.

So it seems to be that there is some sort of conflict about the power level of Yoda among the canon sources.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Did you know it was not necessary for luke to use this technique? Seeing he could easily kill any opponent he wanted to? If you want to bring up the point "Oh but he didnt use it against lumiya", its simply because he did not go all out and he has hinted that at any moment he could have easily and effortlessly kill her and caedus whom is superior to lumiya.
But than it is untested in combat so far and I would like to see the benefit of that technique in combat situation for a better idea.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
FYI, he did not go all out with caedus either. And why would he need to use the fallanasi technique if his opponent cannot touch his force bond and break it?
Caedus has shown the ability to disconnect a person from the Force by merely touching that person. He probably did this to Ben.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
And his lightning by dark empire is enough to annihilate 100 storm troopers, reduce 3 force users to dust and the fact that by merely lowering the intensity, he could knock luke skywalker to his knees as well as the fact reconnect himself to the force
DE Sidious is obviously very powerful. Are we not talking about ROTS Sidious in this thread?

Originally posted by GahLakTus
I'm afraid that nihilus wouldnt be able to even give sidious a tough time, seeing he gets outclassed in every aspect of the force
In case of DE Sidious, I agree.

But in case of ROTS Sidious, I can't say for sure that whether he can win easily. And in a pure TK contest, Nihilus can defeat him.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
that he is fighting an opponent whom has unlimited power that he is fighting an opponent that can hide his force bond and become invisible being able to walk up to nihilus undetected by any means and proceed to annihilate him.
How can you say that Sidious commands unlimited power? Does he have infinite number of Midi-chlorians in him?

And sneaking behind an opponent is not Sidious' way of fighting his enemies. Though if he can mask his connection with the Force, he might pull of that move, considering that Nihilus is not looking in his direction.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
What other force powers? Sadly his main power wouldn't even harm sidious seeing that his bond would be hidden as if sidious is not connected to the force
Again! This is an assumption.

Sidious cannot fully disconnect himself from the Force. You are confusing Force Cloak ability with complete disconnection from the Force.

If the waves of Nihilus' main attack touches him, he will be doomed.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
And how tough was the battle? Sorry but he is fighting 3 opponents far weaker than he is, in this scenario, he is fighting some one far more powerful than he is
Those three oponents were weaker?

1) Jedi Exile:

Jedi Exile is actually the main hero of KOTOR II and she must be damn good because even the 3 powerful Sith Lords failed to destroy her.

2) Visas Marr:

She was his apprentice and betrayed him. She was aiding Exile in combat and she knew Nihilus very well.

3) The Mandalore:

He was a great fighter as well. After-all he became the Mandalore and was probably targetting Nihilus with long range weapons, which would be an additional head-ache.

So are you trying to say that the combined power of these 3 people would not be very significant? No matter poor Nihilus fell.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
And to add to what i posted, what else has nihilus demonstrated which is remarkable other than his force breaking ability and his TK? Sidious greatly surpassed him there simply because nothing indicates that nihilus is skilled in other areas of the force.
You are ignoring a few other important events that also make it clear to us that Nihilus was indeed a powerhouse and during the duels, he mean't business.

Nihilus versus Traya is a good example to consider in this regard.

He effortlessly send Darth Traya (who herself was very powerful and was the mentor of Nihilus and Revan) flying in the air with a flick of his hand. And not only this but he also prevented her from using the Force through his Force Sever ability.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
You can't take two feats of nihilus and dispute that the other areas of the force are the same caliber/level , thats like taking bastila's battle meditation and using it to dispute her force lightning "super-dangerous" or the fact that it means she is a power house despite the fact that malak easily subdued her when she attacked him.
On numerous situations, we have seen that powerful Jedi or Sith Lords use TK a lot in combat situations to subdue their enemies. Count Dooku and Darth Vader are two prime examples of this.

So Nihilus was good at those things that were actually really useful in combat situations. And than much about the Nihilus is shrouded in mystery.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
And seeing that sidious is superior to nihilus, i don't see why he can't cancel out nihilus TK attacks seeing that vader did it to forte and kulka in RODV when they tried to use TK to influence the course of his lightsaber and grab it from him
Since when Forte and Kulka were close to Darth Vader in terms of power or had demonstrated very impressive Force moves like Darth Vader could?

Originally posted by GahLakTus
All i see really legend is pure telekenesis that nihilus is going to use in this fight seeing that sidious would mask his force bond which will render nihilus force bond breaking ability useless, and the fact that once sidious does that, he can't be sensed through the force and with the fact that he could render himself invicible physically
Since this thread is about ROTS Sidious, so now you decide the victor in case of pure TK contest among the two powerful Sith Lords.

...There needs to be an EU comic with Darth Nihilus in it, so we would have a better idea of what he can do, or some other canon source.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Being superior is not the correct answer. Unless Sidious knows a defensive technique that can counter the affect of "Force Sever" technique, he would be in trouble.
And aparantly sidious DOES have a technique to defend, the fallanasi technique. Oh i forgot, nihilus doesn't have a defence to his own technique and sidious may very well use it against him

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And ROTS Sidious is not very good at defending against powerful attacks. A simple Force Push from Yoda send him flying accross the room, as an example. And "Force Sever" technique is far more lethal or dangerous. Prove a force sever works on a superior force user, it took so damm long for 3 jedi masters to try to sever the exiles connections and even that didn't work despite waiting for 20 seconds.



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And Nihilus also knows some good offensive techniques.. Like? Sidious knows techniques that nihilus has never even heard of before and thus he doesn't have a defence to them whereas sidious knows every force technique and every defence



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Sidious is surely better then Nihilus but to what extent, we can't say for sure. Because whatever Nihilus does, he is also really good at it.
Did i deny that? Ill admit nihilus is one of the most powerful sith lords, and i will rank him above everybody else in the KOTOR era save for revan and exar kun(in my opinion)
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

This is an assumption. Just because X performed a feat, it does not means that Y would also do the same.

Except for the fact that sidious can do what nihilus does.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Since this thread is about ROTS incarnation of Sidious, I doubt that he has demonstrated this level of power by that time.
Ill admit that nihilus may beat ROTS sidious, it is certeinly plausible given the circumstances but you are trying to argue that he can beat if not give DE sidious, somebody which will put his ROTS incarnation to great shame, a hard time which is very unlikely seeing that his ROTJ incarnation can already destroy an entire skirmish of storm troopers with one blast


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Check the title of this thread carefully. It refers to ROTS Sidious. Will do
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And Yoda did that feat in Star Wars Cartoon, in which the powers of the Jedi are massively exaggerated. In the G-canon AOTC, Yoda was having a hard time in preventing a crane to fall on the two ill-fated Jedi. . And in G-canon we never see sidious kill anybody with lightning despite the fact he sent a full blast of lightning at mace windu despite the fact that windu did not even try to put up any defence, its still canon legend that yoda lifted a mountain. Even the part where vader uses force lightning in SOTME which is generally regarded as non canon because it contradicts several sources, yet it is now canon because that event has been recorded in the new essential chronology and the novel rise and fall of darth vader .

Get what im trying to interpret?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

So it seems to be that there is some sort of conflict about the power level of Yoda among the canon sources.. There also seems to be conflict for a few characters too... sidious? vader? yoda?. Sorry but what they did is canon, not a damm thing you can do about that seeing it already has the canon status

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

But than it is untested in combat so far and I would like to see the benefit of that technique in combat situation for a better idea... You don't. Simply because we know whats its capable off, it masks your force bond, your opponent can sense/see your force bond nor can they touch or do anything to it. Tholme did this to hide from vos, he hid his force sensitivity and vos was unable to feel it, sense it what so ever.

And going by what you said when did Nihilus ever use Tk in a combat situation? Hmmm? Yet we know its darn effective, same for the fallanasi technique, we don't actually have to see it in battle seeing that we know the nature of this defence.

Now we don't have to put our hand in a tank full of piranhas when we already know what they are capable off right?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Caedus has shown the ability to disconnect a person from the Force by merely touching that person. He probably did this to Ben. So? He touched luke so many times yet nothing happened, oh right i guess this proves my point you can't cut some one off the force whom is superior to you.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


DE Sidious is obviously very powerful. Are we not talking about ROTS Sidious in this thread?


In case of DE Sidious, I agree.
Ok
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

But in case of ROTS Sidious, I can't say for sure that whether he can win easily. And in a pure TK contest, Nihilus can defeat him. Why so? Vaders inferior apprentice could crash a star destroyer with little effort, so why can't ROTS sidious?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

How can you say that Sidious commands unlimited power? Does he have infinite number of Midi-chlorians in him? It was a figure of speech, but the fact remains DE sidious > nihilus
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And sneaking behind an opponent is not Sidious' way of fighting his enemies. Though if he can mask his connection with the Force, he might pull of that move, considering that Nihilus is not looking in his direction. Doesn't matter weather he masks his connection and physical body infront of him or not, weather nihilus sees him do it makes no difference, as he wouldn't be able to predict his next moves, sense his presence or see him.

And why wouldn't sidious use necessary techniques when it becomes a necessity? Especially against an extremely dangerous opponent?



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Sidious cannot fully disconnect himself from the Force. You are confusing Force Cloak ability with complete disconnection from the Force.. Did you actually read what i posted? I said as if he disconnected from the force . I didn't say he could
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

If the waves of Nihilus' main attack touches him, he will be doomed. What waves? Oh i forgot he wouldn't see/sense where nihilus is so how is he going to attack and kill what he cant see and sense?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Those three oponents were weaker?. Yes. Nihilus > all of them
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

1) Jedi Exile:

Jedi Exile is actually the main hero of KOTOR II and she must be damn good because even the 3 powerful Sith Lords failed to destroy her. She defeated them under CIRCUMSTANCES. Is she powerful? Yes, but more powerful than nihilus? No


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

She was his apprentice and betrayed him. She was aiding Exile in combat and she knew Nihilus very well. So? Give bulter swan 10 years to study darth vader and even she wouldn't kill him. Visas is in no way even half as powerful as nihilus.

Vader has been with sidious for 20 over years, i guess going by your logic it means vader can fcuk up sidious


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

So are you trying to say that the combined power of these 3 people would not be very significant? No matter poor Nihilus fell. Again he was killed under circumstances. Had he been fed and exile not a wound, he would have easily killed them.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You are ignoring a few other important events that also make it clear to us that Nihilus was indeed a powerhouse and during the duels, he mean't business. Ok
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Nihilus versus Traya is a good example to consider in this regard.

He effortlessly send Darth Traya (who herself was very powerful and was the mentor of Nihilus and Revan) flying in the air with a flick of his hand. And not only this but he also prevented her from using the Force through his Force Sever ability. He sent her flying back, and nihilus is far superior to traya. Did i ever say nihilus is weak? Of all the kotor characters i would say sion is the most overrated piece of shit

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

On numerous situations, we have seen that powerful Jedi or Sith Lords use TK a lot in combat situations to subdue their enemies. Count Dooku and Darth Vader are two prime examples of this.

So Nihilus was good at those things that were actually really useful in combat situations. And than much about the Nihilus is shrouded in mystery.
Never denied that, like i said all we have seen of his impressive ness is TK and his force breaking ability.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Since when Forte and Kulka were close to Darth Vader in terms of power or had demonstrated very impressive Force moves like Darth Vader could? That is not the point, the point is a superior force user can cancel out an inferior force users powers. Like how master fay cancelled out assaji's force crush

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Since this thread is about ROTS Sidious, so now you decide the victor in case of pure TK contest among the two powerful Sith Lords. Pure TK? ROTS sidious vs nihilus, i would say nihilus. But DE sidious? Then DE wins

Originally posted by GahLakTus
And aparantly sidious DOES have a technique to defend, the fallanasi technique. Oh i forgot, nihilus doesn't have a defence to his own technique and sidious may very well use it against him Actually that's not true. As a force wound, he does.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Actually that's not true. As a force wound, he does. No he does not, seeing that the 3 masters nearly cut the exile off the force permanently(as in cutting her control to her powers not the force completely)

Originally posted by GahLakTus
No he does not, seeing that the 3 masters nearly cut the exile off the force permanently(as in cutting her control to her powers not the force completely) Oh, I misunderstood what you said then.