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I checked and didn't see a post on this, so here it is finally.

Grand Admiral Thrawn has his flagship, the Chimera, and commands four other Star Destroyers, all their TIE fighters and such.

Revan has his flagship, commanding four others like it, with an equal amount of the Sith Fighters.

No force powers (Battle meditation and such). No cheap tricks like cloaking, just flat out strategy and warfare. Who takes the cake??

Thrawn

Thrawn takes this

Thrawn. And without strenuous difficulty. He's the superior tactition and commands ships that vastly outstrip and outgun Revan's (by comparison) pathetic arsenal.

Oue, toughie.

However, while I question any and all comparisons that rank one as superior to the other, I must say that Thrawn's firepower takes this. Leviathan-like battlewagons and outdated fighters are not gonna cut it barring a miracle.

And this from someone who is supposedly a Revan fanboy!

Originally posted by Tortoise Herder
Oue, toughie.

However, while I question any and all comparisons that rank one as superior to the other, I must say that Thrawn's firepower takes this. Leviathan-like battlewagons and outdated fighters are not gonna cut it barring a miracle.

And this from someone who is supposedly a Revan fanboy!

Ah. So you're telling me that acknowledging Revan might lose a match is grounds for us disregarding you as a "Revan Fanboy"? SW LegenD is the biggest KotoR-era and Revan fanboy I've ever encountered and even he has (grudgingly) acknowledged that the Sith Lord would lose on occasion.

So for your status: it's irrelevant. The fact that you consider question Thrawn's superiority over Revan is enough to make anyone hold disdain for you.

As for the fight: Thrawn. Curbstomp. The end.

No cheap trips like cloaking, you say, but instead just raw strategy? I would argue that the proper use of a cloaking field requires more strategy than typical battle tactics.

Not that it's necessary. ISD's outgun Leviathans by a landslide and Thrawn's tactical ingenuity is unrivaled. Score one for the blue man.

While I know and have no problem with thrawn winning and revan losing ,the only thing that has been bothering for me is what type of elite strategies either can come up with with 5 SDs apiece that the other can't realize.That isn't really alot of ships to work with.(im no strategy expert) Other than the basics of having a few attacking and others defending then maybe a surprise quick counter/surprise attack i can't really think of any.

Actually 5 apiece is a whole lot to work with, what with full TIE and Sith squadrons in each hanger bay, you're looking at one of the coolest battles ever. (Let's just hope there's no Noghri on Thrawn's ship...that part litteraly made me cry. I'm a Thrawn fanboy because of his uniqueness, in that he doesn't rule with brute strength and fear, but with wisdom and passion. Now if he were Emperor, there would've been no Star Wars, because the Rebels would've been wiped out within months.)

(I know I'm not the thread starter but still interesting thought)

Would Thrawn Still win if he had Revans ships and Revan Thrawns???

Interesting thought... I'd say it'd be close. Thrawn might eke out a win if he's careful enough to analyze all of Revan's strategies.

Yes, I mean after all he managed to defeat Palpatines Forces that was sent to defeat the 6 Jedi Master this ships was state of the art at that time, and with basically no knowlegde about there Weaknesses and Strenghts he still won, only one ship survived and that was because Thrawn wanted prisoners.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Yes, I mean after all he managed to defeat Palpatines Forces that was sent to defeat the 6 Jedi Master this ships was state of the art at that time, and with basically no knowlegde about there Weaknesses and Strenghts he still won, only one ship survived and that was because Thrawn wanted prisoners.

But you have to keep in mind that vast difference in tech. (4000 years) Im not sure even with his superior strategies he could overcome the tech. difference. Like he could launch a good attack that if he had his ships and revan also had the same type than Thrawn would win. But if with Revan's ships having superior shields and lasers he might be able to hold out long enough to launch a counter attack.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
But you have to keep in mind that vast difference in tech. (4000 years) Im not sure even with his superior strategies he could overcome the tech. difference. Like he could launch a good attack that if he had his ships and revan also had the same type than Thrawn would win. But if with Revan's ships having superior shields and lasers he might be able to hold out long enough to launch a counter attack.

How great a difference there is, I still think that Thrawn would be capable of defeating Revan how apparently from the way it sounded in the KOTOR prefered to use brute force to win.

Thrawn demonstrated in the battle with the Ships sent by the Trade Fedaration that he even against a greatly superior force was capable of defeating them with his full force (that was what 12 small ships) against the force sent by Sidious I think he should have a chance of winning.

And it was just ment as a little turn that would make the Battle a little more interesting to discuss IMO.

I would just like to notice that revan's strategies were only stated as brutal in KOTOR II. In the original KOTOR, even malachor's battle was diferent, in fact if you talk with canderous about that he speaks about something very diferent from the battle stated in KOTOR II.

Anyway, Thrawn beats Revan any day in my opinion.

Thrawn pwns.

thawn due to better technology

Originally posted by ihavenoname
thawn due to better technology

And the fact that he is just better then Revan.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
And the fact that he is just better then Revan.

Originally posted by Orbius
I checked and didn't see a post on this, so here it is finally.

I've been on these forums for over two years and I'll be witness to the countless Revan vs Thrawn threads out there. Hell we even had a Revan vs Thrawn in a chess game... and no one would admit that I could have kicked both their assess.. chess club kicks ass.

Originally posted by Orbius

Grand Admiral Thrawn has his flagship, the Chimera, and commands four other Star Destroyers, all their TIE fighters and such.

Revan has his flagship, commanding four others like it, with an equal amount of the Sith Fighters.

No force powers (Battle meditation and such). No cheap tricks like cloaking, just flat out strategy and warfare. Who takes the cake??

So you stick Thrawn with is far superior tech against Revan's 4,000 year old vessels? How the hell does that ever work? If you are going to pit the two against each other than even up the tech levels otherwise its a waste of a thread.

On another note I don't believe that Thrawn pwns Revan simply because Thrawn is Thrawn and Revan is Revan.

Am I saying that Thrawn would loose? No I am not, am I saying that Thrawn would automatically win because he's Thrawn? No, I'm saying that either commander has the potential to beat the other. Both are considered genius' on the field of battle and both have their share of accomplishments (granted Thrawn's are considerably better documented as virtue of him having some very badass books for source material).

We might as well start an argument over Alexander and Hannibal. Alexander was undefeated and is better known, Hannibal was a genius, but suffered defeats, but one has to put it into context. Hannibal was facing the disciplined legions of Rome, the soldiers that even today have a legendary reputation for being badass, Alexander was facing the levied troops of the Persian Satraps. Big difference (albeit I'm leaving out a shitload of other factors and by no means am I saying Hannibal is better than Alexander); however, I'm going to stop now before I get a debate reserved for the history forum started.

The point I'm trying to make, is the fact that in the overall context it is not fair to make blanket statements that Thrawn would win because he is Thrawn.

Now, in the context of this thread, Revan gets raped because he's using ancient ships and tech against a modern Imperial arsenal. Thrawn wouldn't even need to use tactics, he could just order his ships to fire and Revan would be shit out of luck, end of story.

Long time no see indeed.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Long time no see indeed.

Blah, I don't even know why I am back here; nostalgia I suppose.

Veneficus, I understand the point you're making, but that's understood.

Arguing who would win a tactical confrontation is much more complex and difficult than arguing who would win a physical one; the "any given sunday" adage very much applies. For example, we could use that very same doctrine to conclude that Darth Revan wouldn't necessarily overcome Jar Jar Binks in a tactical battle -- since there is no absolute guarentee that Revan > Binks on all occasions (hell, if one truly looks at the Phantom Menace, there is some latent brilliance in Jar Jar's stupidity).

Grand Admiral Thrawn brought the Empire (and I use "the Empire" loosely, since in reality -- he was commanding but a small fraction of their loyalties) to the total brink of victory, against an opponent whose forces outnumbered his with a much more stable infrastructure. Also, if we take the Dark Empire sourcebook into consideration (and the findings of Publius), the Reborn Emperor may have been working in secret against Thrawn -- indeed, it says that the Emperor was responsible for Thrawn's lack of ships. He was merely using Thrawn as a distraction, fully intending for his most brilliant commander to lose, in an insane quest to "purge" the Empire (it also implies that Palpatine was responsible for Thrawn's assassination at the hands of the Noghri).

It seems evident that Thrawn is better than Revan, and equipped with vastly more capable manpower and weapons' power, he logically wins.

Originally posted by Gideon Arguing who would win a tactical confrontation is much more complex and difficult than arguing who would win a physical one; the "any given sunday" adage very much applies. For example, we could use that very same doctrine to conclude that Darth Revan wouldn't necessarily overcome Jar Jar Binks in a tactical battle -- since there is no absolute guarentee that Revan > Binks on all occasions (hell, if one truly looks at the Phantom Menace, there is some latent brilliance in Jar Jar's stupidity).

I don't see how Jar Jar really could prove as even a remote challenger to Revan. Yes, it is not an absolute that Revan would always win against Jar Jar. However, I do not see how this relevant. On a scale of 1-10 I would put Jar Jar at a 2 and Revan at a 9 when comparing tactical skill. It it simply such an overwhelming distance between the two in ability that I think it is safe to say that Revan would win against Jar Jar in a tactical confrontation.

Originally posted by Gideon Grand Admiral Thrawn brought the Empire (and I use "the Empire" loosely, since in reality -- he was commanding but a small fraction of their loyalties) to the total brink of victory, against an opponent whose forces outnumbered his with a much more stable infrastructure. Also, if we take the Dark Empire sourcebook into consideration (and the findings of Publius), the Reborn Emperor may have been working in secret against Thrawn -- indeed, it says that the Emperor was responsible for Thrawn's lack of ships. He was merely using Thrawn as a distraction, fully intending for his most brilliant commander to lose, in an insane quest to "purge" the Empire (it also implies that Palpatine was responsible for Thrawn's assassination at the hands of the Noghri).

It seems evident that Thrawn is better than Revan, and equipped with vastly more capable manpower and weapons' power, he logically wins.

You cite Thrawn's accomplishments, I can just as easily do the same for Revan. He took a battered and broken Republic Fleet and turned the war against the Mandalorians (the Mandalorians hardly being a pushover). He won that war and then moved on to bring the Republic to its knees. We have quotes from Canderious that call Revan a genius on the field. What do you think it would take to earn such respect from Canderious? The man cannot shut up about Revan; considering that he does not strike me as the type of man to give out such praise easily, I think his word has considerable weight. Canderious isn't even the only one who gives praise to Revan's tactical skill. Dorak, Brianna and just about every other character who talks about Revan seems to set his tactical skill above all else.

Granted, it is difficult to to show genuine examples of Revan's tactical ability, we can only see the end result of his actions, we have yet to see him in actual battle. All of our sources in this matter are second hand sources or eye witnesses, but we ourselves never actually get to see Revan in action. With the current KOTOR comic series moving the way it is, I do not know if we will finally see the "Revanchist" make his moves or not. The comics are more focused on Zayne and "Alek".

I think what it comes down to is whether or not you believe that Revan could have succeeded in what Thrawn was able to do. Could Revan have led the Imperial Remnant against the New Republic? I believe he could, but again we will never know and the former statement is merely my opinion based off what we are told in the games.

I am not saying Revan would win against Thrawn, but nor do I believe that Thrawn would simply walk over Revan. If the two were set up with equal tech levels and a more... even matchup I think it can be argued to be a very close match.

In short, Jar Jar vs Revan is highly skewed, Revan vs Thrawn is a considerably finer line.

The difference is that pro-Thrawn arguments are better supported than pro-Revan arguments. Ultimately, Thrawn was in a more pitiful scenario and came closer to total victory than Revan. Never mind the fact that you can't really compare the two in terms of respective situations. Revan was a genius-without-peer at the time, his second-in-command was extraordinarily brutal, he had assistance from incalculable reserves of Force-sensitives and trained personnel, not to mention that he also had the Star Forge and an unlimited amount of resources? Thrawn was battling the likes of Admiral Ackbar and the full might and superior resources of the New Republic while simultaneously dealing with the unrivaled spynets of the Bothans and the Smuggler's Alliance and -- last but not least -- inadvertantly pitting himself against the efforts of Emperor Palpatine.

Objectively speaking, Revan had it a lot easier.

Edit #1: Not to mention that Revan has the benefit of being Force sensitive. He's got the aid of an omnipresent and omnipotent universal force and still can't stand equal to Thrawn.

Edit #2: No offense, but do you really want to compare Thrawn and Revan in a battle of Verbal Fellatios? I can guarentee Thrawn will come out ahead (no pun intended).

Originally posted by Gideon
Edit #2: No offense, but do you really want to compare Thrawn and Revan in a battle of Verbal Fellatios? I can guarentee Thrawn will come out ahead (no pun intended).

No, not really, it would go nowhere and end up like the gazillion other Revan vs Thrawn threads out there. So, let us simply agree to disagree...

But, I can still beat them both at chess.

Thrawn had star destroyers and super star destroyers at his expense, and managed to capture the Katana fleet. This was all against the rebel alliance who had yet to pull all of its resources together to really become a powerhouse..

Revan had access to unlimited ships but he was going against all of the armies of the republic. I hardly see how Thrawn was in a pitiful situation. Granted, Thrawn really IS the better tactician, the argument that he had less to work with against a more powerful foe is completely inaccurate.

The pro-Revan arguments borne out of ignorance is becoming rather tiresome. No offense intended, but if you're not familiar with the source material and merely post an argument to fellate your preferred character, there is no need to post at all.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Thrawn had star destroyers and super star destroyers at his expense, and managed to capture the Katana fleet.

Grand Admiral Thrawn did not have any Super-class Star Destroyers at his disposal, and his Imperial-classes were in very limited amounts. He outwitted the New Republic and, yes, captured the Katana Fleet -- which helped his numbers but that's it. Unless you're suggesting these pre-Clone Wars era warships will suddenly outgun the Mon Calamarian cruisers.



No, this would be the New Republic, equipped with "better trained" troops, more reserves, and larger territory than the Empire at this point -- much less Thrawn's little section.



He was their supreme tactition, the most potent Force user of the age, numerous Jedi converts, and an unlimited armada, and you're telling me that I'm supposed to bear in mind that he was facing "all the armies of the Republic"? A challenge, to be sure, but nothing compared to what Thrawn was facing.



Then, no offense, but you've hardly been reading. Thrawn was in a shithole of a situation from the start, battling not only the Republic, but -- after time -- the efforts of Emperor Palpatine.



It would be, if you'd made valid points. As it so happens, you've been completely wrong about Thrawn's situation, and confuse his armada with that of the entire Empire. That is a grossly inaccurate conclusion and it's been made explicitly clear. Palpatine was undermining Thrawn at every effort, withholding ships and personnel until finally he arranged for his assassination.

Revan is curbstomped.

Here is what woud happen. Ships fight. Thrawn's win (just because of larger and more powerful ships). Fighters battle. Revan's win(because TIEs are hell-bad compared to uber sith fighters). Thrawn then boards the Flagship to take Revan hostage. When Thrawn lauches into some monologue saying how pitiful Revan is, Reven cuts his head off with his saber. superior sith infantry repel boarders. Battle Over. YAY

Originally posted by Obi7
Here is what woud happen. Ships fight. Thrawn's win (just because of larger and more powerful ships).
And also because thrawn is a superior tactician.

Originally posted by Obi7

Fighters battle. Revan's win(because TIEs are hell-bad compared to uber sith fighters).
Empire tie fighters >>>>> sith fighters, obvious from the 4000 year technological advancement.

Originally posted by Obi7
Here is what woud happen. Ships fight. Thrawn's win (just because of larger and more powerful ships). Fighters battle. Revan's win(because TIEs are hell-bad compared to uber sith fighters). Thrawn then boards the Flagship to take Revan hostage. When Thrawn lauches into some monologue saying how pitiful Revan is, Reven cuts his head off with his saber. superior sith infantry repel boarders. Battle Over. YAY

Actually, what I was thinking was that a single Super Star Destroyer comes out of hyperspace and destroys Revans entire fleet, including the Starforge, effortlessly and a little under an hour.

Thrawn then makes it back home in time to catch the last fifteen minutes of Heroes.

Revan just for arguements sake. She's got the ultimate weapon: The Revan!!

Revan boards and kicks Ass!

Again canon states revan is a male, get it in your head numbskull, if you can't acknowledge canon then you shouldn't be here and instead, go to http://lucasforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=321 where they need idiots like you, oh wait you will get attacked there too.

Why the Hell do you care about one little word so much. I'm entiltled to freedom of speach.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Why the Hell do you care about one little word so much. I'm entiltled to freedom of speach.

Take your freedom of speech to a newbie forum, douchebag. On this forum if you argue against canon, you get banned.

Thrawn. If I'm not mistaken he's the best naval commander in the SW universe.

Thrawn and Zaarin are about equals.

But Zaarin was a traitorous douche, so Thrawn's better by default.