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Who wins?

World War Hulk

Juggernaut,walked through godblasts without trouble.

Originally posted by Xplosive
World War Hulk


How exactly is the hulk gonna hurt juggs and more than likely Hulk would heal from anything juggs does.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
How exactly is the hulk gonna hurt juggs and more than likely Hulk would heal from anything juggs does.

No one would harm the other, but WWH would win by BFR because of superior strength.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
How exactly is the hulk gonna hurt juggs and more than likely Hulk would heal from anything juggs does.

So your winner is......

Originally posted by Xplosive
No one would harm the other, but WWH would win by BFR because of superior strength.
Except he doesnt have superior strength.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
How exactly is the hulk gonna hurt juggs and more than likely Hulk would heal from anything juggs does.

We saw that War Hulk was able to defeat the Juggernaut by using his green energy aura. We also saw that during WWH (only during issue 5, mind you) that Hulk's green energy aura grew so great that it was taller than the buildings in the city and was surrounding the entire city.

Given extrapolation, that would indicate that during the ending of WWH5 when he lost control, his strength level would be exponentially greater than it was when he became War Hulk.

Classic Juggernaut was also winded the time Professor Hulk had his mind tampered with and Hulk punched Juggernaut to break from the illusion, we see classic Juggernaut on the ground on all fours with a surprised look on his face.

Originally posted by Sundipped
So your winner is......

I would call it a statemate wwh healing factor and Durability keeps this fight going and going.

Are you stupid? That was Sentry's energy!!!

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Except he doesnt have superior strength.

Not even Classic Juggernaut proved to have the strength of Hulk.
Doesn't have the feat of the Hulk. And when he beat the Hulk, that Hulk wasn't so strong as when he destroyed an asteroid or when he fought Onslaught, especially not as WWH.

You are funny, vlaaad.

Originally posted by Xplosive
No one would harm the other, but WWH would win by BFR because of superior strength.

Not true.

WWH as been hurt PLENTY. Juggernaut would beat the gamma out of him. Dismember him. Play with the parts. Find out why Hulk's clothes are so strong.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Not even Classic Juggernaut proved to have the strength of Hulk.
Doesn't have the feat of the Hulk. And when he beat the Hulk, that Hulk wasn't so strong as when he destroyed an asteroid or when he fought Onslaught, especially not as WWH.

You are funny, vlaaad.
Juggernaut has fought pissed hulks before and its hasnt made a difference,juggernaut has always come off the superior to hulk besides war hulk which wasnt even hulks strength,wwh and juggernaut were practically even with hulk bleeding and juggernaut completelly untouched,you fail.

juggernaut,unless hulk uses bfr

Originally posted by Horrificus
Not true.

WWH as been hurt PLENTY. Juggernaut would beat the gamma out of him. Dismember him. Play with the parts. Find out why Hulk's clothes are so strong.

Yeah but it never put him down he healed they could go on forever beating on each other.If it was his past incarnation's i would say juggs but wwh could take whatever juggs threw out and keep coming.

WWH just BFR's

Like here:

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Juggernaut/1.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Juggernaut/2.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Juggernaut/3.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Juggernaut/4.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Juggernaut/5.jpg

And Juggernaut was always a Juggernaut, destructive force that never endangered the Earth as WWH has (and just look at the end what was Hulk doing only with steps).
He was also more times stopped by X-Men, while look what WWH has done to them.

WWH is definitely physically stronger being.

juggernaut was beatin that ass

Originally posted by Xplosive

WWH is definitely physically stronger being.

i dunno, when they locked hands as a test of strength hulk was the one gettin pushed backwards, not juggernaut

Originally posted by Xplosive
And Juggernaut was always a Juggernaut, destructive force that never endangered the Earth as WWH has (and just look at the end what was Hulk doing only with steps).
He was also more times stopped by X-Men, while look what WWH has done to them.

WWH is definitely physically stronger being.


The x-men usually stop juggs but getting off his helmet and using a telepathic attack thats not a option hulk has.Juggs had the upper hand in most of the fight between the two but the hulk has a insane healing factor and durability Jugg's is not gonna be able to put him down for good.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
The x-men usually stop juggs but getting off his helmet and using a telepathic attack thats not a option hulk has.Juggs had the upper hand in most of the fight between the two but the hulk has a insane healing factor and durability Jugg's is not gonna be able to put him down for good.

Had the upper hand. And even before it was known Hulk is the stronger between the two, but it was because of durability that he won.
This is WWH.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Had the upper hand. And even before it was known Hulk is the stronger between the two, but it was because of durability that he won.
This is WWH.

as i said, it looked like juggs was overpowering Hulk in their brief fight, maybe its possible that Cytorrak amped up Juggs strength to be greater than hucs

Originally posted by Kurash
i dunno, when they locked hands as a test of strength hulk was the one gettin pushed backwards, not juggernaut

Yeah but that's part of Juggs magic power set - he simply cannot be stopped once he sets off in a direction. Its more than just physical power its a magic thing. Compare to no-one being able to lift Thor's hammer 'cept thor -does not make Thor stronger. Even Superman cannot lift Thor's hammer without Thor's permission.

Juggs does not have the same level of lifting or destroying feats as Hulk. Hulk is quite clearly top dog in terms of pure strength feats.

Main problem with this fight is Juggs is just about as invulnerable as you can get. Hulk can dish about as much physical punishment as can be meted = stalemate
confused

Originally posted by severance
Yeah but that's part of Juggs magic power set - he simply cannot be stopped once he sets off in a direction. Its more than just physical power its a magic thing. Compare to no-one being able to lift Thor's hammer 'cept thor -does not make Thor stronger. Even Superman cannot lift Thor's hammer without Thor's permission.

Juggs does not have the same level of lifting or destroying feats as Hulk. Hulk is quite clearly top dog in terms of pure strength feats.

Main problem with this fight is Juggs is just about as invulnerable as you can get. Hulk can dish about as much physical punishment as can be meted = stalemate
confused

Classic Juggs did in fact have his forward momentum stopped when he fought War Hulk though, so there is a clear precedence here.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Classic Juggs did in fact have his forward momentum stopped when he fought War Hulk though, so there is a clear precedence here.

did he actually stop him - don't remember. Maybe you got a scan.

My point is just being able to walk in a direction unstoppably means jackshit in a fight. It is not a symptom of how strong jugs is but a magic thing. So it doesn ot show how much damage Jugs can dish out. Lifting and smashing feats do show this and Hulk's are much greater than jugs

band

Like i said before Hulk is not gonna beat juggs using his fist and whatever damage juggs does giving what we have seen of hulks durability and healing in wwh is gonna get healed.Stalemate this is even probably more of a logical stalemate given the powerset's of these two guys than Hulk and Sentry

Originally posted by severance
did he actually stop him - don't remember. Maybe you got a scan.

Yes, he actually stopped him, not only that, but then lift him and threw him far away. As I remember, he could even hurt Juggernaut.
Hulk was always depiceted as being the stronger of the two and WWH is the strongest Hulk version ever.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
Stalemate this is even probably more of a logical stalemate given the powerset's of these two guys than Hulk and Sentry

I see Hulk easily removing Juggernaut from the battle, because of superior strength.

BFR win for Hulk - boring!

without BFR probably stalemate

Originally posted by severance
did he actually stop him - don't remember. Maybe you got a scan.

My point is just being able to walk in a direction unstoppably means jackshit in a fight. It is not a symptom of how strong jugs is but a magic thing. So it doesn ot show how much damage Jugs can dish out. Lifting and smashing feats do show this and Hulk's are much greater than jugs

band

Look closely at this scan, and note the green nimbus of energy that surrounds the Hulk:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/Hulk3389/hulk457-stopsjuggernaut.jpg

Now in comparison, let's see how much more powerful Hulk got in terms of the cosmic green energy after his fight with Sentry (this is actually more energy being released than his fight with Sentry):
http://img137.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=96095_wwh033_122_158lo.jpg
http://img143.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=96097_wwh034_122_1122lo.jpg
http://img127.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=96103_wwh035_122_1065lo.jpg

This appears to be the force fueling the Hulk, this cosmic green energy grew to such portions that it literally covered the entire city. Compare that with the amount of green energy shown in the scan where he stopped classic Juggernaut for a comparison of the power levels of what he was at then versus what point he got to in WWH.

From the scans it would appear that the technology of the Celestials allowed Hulk during his time as War to tap into an even deeper energy source than normal, and during WWH was only the second time that I recall him specifically giving off the green glow of cosmic radiation. It was so bright that Reed was shielding his eyes.

Why the **** is it cosmic?

Originally posted by Kurash
i dunno, when they locked hands as a test of strength hulk was the one gettin pushed backwards, not juggernaut

u r right!

Hulk was getting s, s, s, slapped around!
No sign, at all, of hulk being stronger either!

Originally posted by Kutulu
Look closely at this scan, and note the green nimbus of energy that surrounds the Hulk:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/Hulk3389/hulk457-stopsjuggernaut.jpg

Now in comparison, let's see how much more powerful Hulk got in terms of the cosmic green energy after his fight with Sentry (this is actually more energy being released than his fight with Sentry):
http://img137.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=96095_wwh033_122_158lo.jpg
http://img143.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=96097_wwh034_122_1122lo.jpg
http://img127.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=96103_wwh035_122_1065lo.jpg

This appears to be the force fueling the Hulk, this cosmic green energy grew to such portions that it literally covered the entire city. Compare that with the amount of green energy shown in the scan where he stopped classic Juggernaut for a comparison of the power levels of what he was at then versus what point he got to in WWH.

From the scans it would appear that the technology of the Celestials allowed Hulk during his time as War to tap into an even deeper energy source than normal, and during WWH was only the second time that I recall him specifically giving off the green glow of cosmic radiation. It was so bright that Reed was shielding his eyes.

thanks for the war hulk scan long time since i seen it - he does appear to stop jugs

so we're agreed the hulk is physically stronger than juggs

Originally posted by Horrificus
u r right!

Hulk was getting s, s, s, slapped around!
No sign, at all, of hulk being stronger either!

did you read my earlier post. or did you not get it. Juggs unstoppably walking in a straight line does not make him stronger.


bangin

Originally posted by severance
Yeah but that's part of Juggs magic power set - he simply cannot be stopped once he sets off in a direction. Its more than just physical power its a magic thing. Compare to no-one being able to lift Thor's hammer 'cept thor -does not make Thor stronger. Even Superman cannot lift Thor's hammer without Thor's permission.

Juggs does not have the same level of lifting or destroying feats as Hulk. Hulk is quite clearly top dog in terms of pure strength feats.

Main problem with this fight is Juggs is just about as invulnerable as you can get. Hulk can dish about as much physical punishment as can be meted = stalemate
confused but, even if he keeps healing, he can still be losing the fight.if the fight goes on for a hundred years, with jugs beating on him for that hundred years, and then it gets stopped, juggs is still the winner.
just because hulk would be a living pile of pulp, doesnt make it a tie!

Originally posted by Horrificus
but, even if he keeps healing, he can still be losing the fight.if the fight goes on for a hundred years, with jugs beating on him for that hundred years, and then it gets stopped, juggs is still the winner.
just because hulk would be a living pile of pulp, doesnt make it a tie!

if we are going for a point victory i would imagine hulks superior strength would give him the win. WWH is or should be the better fighter and can dish out heavier blows. Juggs will feel something from them. Remember he winded Juggs before.

Hulk

Originally posted by severance
if we are going for a point victory i would imagine hulks superior strength would give him the win. WWH is or should be the better fighter and can dish out heavier blows. Juggs will feel something from them. Remember he winded Juggs before.

fighting almost NEVER works like that, first of all.strength and strength of a strike are 2 very different things. ask anybody who ever fought bruce lee.

second, Juggs has access to an entire dimension full of Cyttorak power.

Juggs is Hulk with a force field and invulnerability.

Originally posted by Horrificus
fighting almost NEVER works like that, first of all.strength and strength of a strike are 2 very different things. ask anybody who ever fought bruce lee.

second, Juggs has access to an entire dimension full of Cyttorak power.

Juggs is Hulk with a force field and invulnerability.


I guarantee you Bruce lee did not hit as hard as Mike Tyson and I guarantee you Mike was stronger. So size and strength do have a large part to play in hitting hard. Bruce Lee had speed (strength to bodyweight ratio high) and technique.

Size and strength to body weight ratio and technique = how hard you hit. Hulk wins in all three of these categories he hits harder

Originally posted by severance
thanks for the war hulk scan long time since i seen it - he does appear to stop jugs

so we're agreed the hulk is physically stronger than juggs
War hulk was stronger,regular hulk never has been and has always been on the losing end of a fight.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
War hulk was stronger,regular hulk never has been and has always been on the losing end of a fight.

whatever!

we are talking about WWH so that is what I meant

How many times has hulk lost to Juggs I can only think of one time -which was CIS

Originally posted by Estacado
Why the **** is it cosmic?

I listed it as cosmic, because characters who use cosmic energy are often shown to have a nimbus of energy around them when they do so. Check out scans of Thanos' various battles, when he amps himself up there is a purple nimbus that surrounds his fists and / or body. Check out the scans where Drax killed Thanos, and note how Drax also had a nimbus of green energy surrounding him.

It is also known that both Sentry and Hulk aren't mutants. If they are not mutants, yet have incredible powers, then where does this source of power come from that shows itself in a nimbus of colored light? The only other source of power in such cases I have seen is mystic; such as when Juggernaut in the above scans was pulling energy from Cytorrak. Therefore by process of elimination Hulk is either drawing mystic energy or cosmic energy, both of which are similar in nature, except that mystic energy comes from another entity typically.

There has never been shown an entity that gives it's powers to Hulk or Sentry; therefore by process of elimination we can assume that more likely than not, they are tapping into the ambient sources of energy which exist throughout Marvel universe. The Eternals do a similar thing as well; they tap into ambient sources of cosmic power in order to gain their powers. So the likeness is there.

One last point I have to make to back up the cosmic energy statement. Celestial technology make Hulk exceedingly strong and he adapted to it rather easily, tapping into reserves of power which he had not previously tapped into. Celestials are also the ones that created the Eternals. Thanos himself is an Eternal. They all show similar energy signatures. The likeness is there; it just has never been stated on-panel. There is currently no real explanation for where else Hulk is getting his power from. In the past it mentioned that Hulk was drawing his energy from in between dimensions. Celestials also draw their energy from the same source - Hyperspace. It's the same energy that Hyperstorm was drawing off of as well. So we have a precedent here, it's just never been analyzed fully by the likes of Reed Richards and such. Even the Beyonder stated that the Hulk was drawing off of an infinite source of energy.

So now Hulk is a cosmic.....

geek

interesting theory

Originally posted by severance
whatever!

we are talking about WWH so that is what I meant

How many times has hulk lost to Juggs I can only think of one time -which was CIS
Him and juggernauts fights usually get interrupted by other people,but everytime juggernaut has been the superior.

Originally posted by Estacado
So now Hulk is a cosmic.....

. . . because he glows when he's super-uber-mega-pissed . . .






dur

Originally posted by Estacado
So now Hulk is a cosmic.....

That is the current idea that seems to be surfacing IMO, since we know he is not a mutant.

We know that Hulk can subconsciously tap into an unlimited source of energy, we've seen it now on several occasions. What other suggestions besides Hyperspace would you say that he is getting the energy from, shown in these scans?
http://img137.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=96095_wwh033_122_158lo.jpg
http://img143.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=96097_wwh034_122_1122lo.jpg
http://img127.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=96103_wwh035_122_1065lo.jpg

If you have a better idea, by all means I'm open minded I'd like to hear it.

Nah.
Imo he is a Super Saiyan.....

Originally posted by severance
I guarantee you Bruce lee did not hit as hard as Mike Tyson and I guarantee you Mike was stronger. So size and strength do have a large part to play in hitting hard. Bruce Lee had speed (strength to bodyweight ratio high) and technique.

Size and strength to body weight ratio and technique = how hard you hit. Hulk wins in all three of these categories he hits harder wrong.
just because somebody is stonger does not equate to a better puncher.
what Hulk can lift, does not directly have anything to do with his punching.

if it was a stength/lifting contest, and I showed you that Thor can hit harder than Hulk, therefore he must be able to lift more, you would be arguing FOR my point, and saying that, just because Thor can hit harder doesn't mean he can lift more.

Originally posted by Kutulu
That is the current idea that seems to be surfacing IMO, since we know he is not a mutant.

We know that Hulk can subconsciously tap into an unlimited source of energy, we've seen it now on several occasions. What other suggestions besides Hyperspace would you say that he is getting the energy from, shown in these scans?
http://img137.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=96095_wwh033_122_158lo.jpg
http://img143.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=96097_wwh034_122_1122lo.jpg
http://img127.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=96103_wwh035_122_1065lo.jpg

If you have a better idea, by all means I'm open minded I'd like to hear it.

he takes steroids??

Originally posted by Estacado
Nah.
Imo he is a Super Saiyan.....

ROFL.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Therefore by process of elimination Hulk is either drawing mystic energy or cosmic energy, both of which are similar in nature, except that mystic energy comes from another entity typically.

There has never been shown an entity that gives it's powers to Hulk or Sentry; therefore by process of elimination we can assume that more likely than not, they are tapping into the ambient sources of energy which exist throughout Marvel universe. The Eternals do a similar thing as well; they tap into ambient sources of cosmic power in order to gain their powers. So the likeness is there.

One last point I have to make to back up the cosmic energy statement. Celestial technology make Hulk exceedingly strong and he adapted to it rather easily, tapping into reserves of power which he had not previously tapped into. Celestials are also the ones that created the Eternals. Thanos himself is an Eternal. They all show similar energy signatures. The likeness is there; it just has never been stated on-panel. There is currently no real explanation for where else Hulk is getting his power from. In the past it mentioned that Hulk was drawing his energy from in between dimensions. Celestials also draw their energy from the same source - Hyperspace. It's the same energy that Hyperstorm was drawing off of as well. So we have a precedent here, it's just never been analyzed fully by the likes of Reed Richards and such. Even the Beyonder stated that the Hulk was drawing off of an infinite source of energy.

I agree that the Hulk is an energy manipulator. He just doesn't know it. A lot of his bigger feats can ONLY be chalked up to more than just phsyical strength.

Originally posted by Estacado
Nah.
Imo he is a Super Saiyan.....

plausible, but I thought Hulk drew his powers from another universe?

Hulk does have weird energy abilities, being able to touch, grab, contort and 'break' energy fields.

Originally posted by Horrificus
wrong.
just because somebody is stonger does not equate to a better puncher.
what Hulk can lift, does not directly have anything to do with his punching.

if it was a stength/lifting contest, and I showed you that Thor can hit harder than Hulk, therefore he must be able to lift more, you would be arguing FOR my point, and saying that, just because Thor can hit harder doesn't mean he can lift more.

please read my whole post I said that strength is part to do with it. The other parts are:

technique which WWH should be superior to juggs. (Bruce Lee hit hard cos he had technique)

speed which is a corollary of strength to body weight ratio. If hulk is stronger and they weigh about the same he should have the edge here. (Bruce Lee's speed came from the fact he weighed about 130lbs but was as strong as a 180lb man)

size does matter.. a big mass has a greater potential than a small mass. so a small mass could hit with more force if the big mass is like at 1% full potential, but both at 100%, the big mass wins. but in comic world, does mass have anything to do with it????

Originally posted by SuppMan
size does matter.. a big mass has a greater potential than a small mass. so a small mass could hit with more force if the big mass is like at 1% full potential, but both at 100%, the big mass wins. but in comic world, does mass have anything to do with it????


uhh... i agree? I think?

Originally posted by Horrificus
I agree that the Hulk is an energy manipulator. He just doesn't know it. A lot of his bigger feats can ONLY be chalked up to more than just phsyical strength.

People tend to forget that hulk is like a giant walking gamma battery he is always creating or giving off gamma energy.

well. i just don't know if the whole mass thing applies because.. well, they're being powered by external sources right? but i guess, if you add the external power source on top of the mass, hulk should have the greater FORCE!

Juggs.

Originally posted by Galan007
Juggs.

Hater schmoll

Although personally I do think that the Hulk which appeared after he learned of Miek's betrayal would be able to stop Cain.

Originally posted by Kutulu
We saw that War Hulk was able to defeat the Juggernaut by using his green energy aura. We also saw that during WWH (only during issue 5, mind you) that Hulk's green energy aura grew so great that it was taller than the buildings in the city and was surrounding the entire city.

Given extrapolation, that would indicate that during the ending of WWH5 when he lost control, his strength level would be exponentially greater than it was when he became War Hulk.

Classic Juggernaut was also winded the time Professor Hulk had his mind tampered with and Hulk punched Juggernaut to break from the illusion, we see classic Juggernaut on the ground on all fours with a surprised look on his face.

lol...

All of the Hulk's energy and he can only break 1 planet?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Hater schmoll

Although personally I do think that the Hulk which appeared after he learned of Miek's betrayal would be able to stop Cain. Nah,
I'm not a Hulk hater whatsoever -- I just feel that classic Juggs truly would beat him.

srug

Nobody wins this.

Doesn't matter whether or not the Hulk uses energy, unless he can get the Juggernaut with telepathy, he's not winning. Cain won't win either.

I refuse to quantify War Hulk's stopping Juggernaut as a feat for Hulk. That was entirely due to Apocalypse's celestial tech.

Hulk will not beat Juggs in a fight. But at this point, if Hulk was as pissed as he was at the end, I don't know if Juggs can put him down. Maybe after a month or so.......

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I refuse to quantify War Hulk's stopping Juggernaut as a feat for Hulk. That was entirely due to Apocalypse's celestial tech.

Hulk will not beat Juggs in a fight. But at this point, if Hulk was as pissed as he was at the end, I don't know if Juggs can put him down. Maybe after a month or so.......

INvulnerable.

Why do people still do the "Classic Juggernaut" thing as if current Juggernaut isn't operating at identical levels?

Originally posted by Larceny
Why do people still do the "Classic Juggernaut" thing as if current Juggernaut isn't operating at identical levels?
Because he isnt at identical levels....classic juggernaut was a monster,he mowed through top tiers all the time and preety easily at that,no one writes him how he is supposed to be written anymore.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Because he isnt at identical levels....classic juggernaut was a monster,he mowed through top tiers all the time and preety easily at that,no one writes him how he is supposed to be written anymore.

That may be because since he's regained his power he's appeared in a single comic and has had a single fight in which he briefly had the upper hand against WWH.

Originally posted by Larceny
That may be because since he's regained his power he's appeared in a single comic and has had a single fight in which he briefly had the upper hand against WWH.
Well thats why we say classic juggs isnt it since he has feats,I guess current juggs and classic should be the same but whatever.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Well thats why we say classic juggs isnt it since he has feats,I guess current juggs and classic should be the same but whatever.

They are the same. Both avatars of Cyttorkas unlimited power.

Originally posted by Larceny
They are the same. Both avatars of Cyttorkas unlimited power. Juggs back in the day was just written better -- .

Originally posted by Galan007
Juggs back in the day was just written better -- .

He currently has only one appearance. It's hard to peg how he's been written on a single appearance.

Originally posted by Larceny
He currently has only one appearance. It's hard to peg how he's been written on a single appearance. That's why I said "from what we've seen at least."

Juggernaut had strength + his ability to forward with nothing supposedly be able to stop him. The Juggernaut had his down by the head and Hulk broke out easily

I'm normally not one to call others on not reading comics but there are clearly a mass of people out there who didn't actually read the War Hulk/Juggernaut fight.

Apocalypse specifically stated that the fight was a test of *Celestial tech* versus the X-Men's most powerful non-mutant foe. Death Wolverine was performing some quite non-Wolverine feats. Celestial tech was the key. Hulk was merely the vessel.

But yeah, with the return of his full power all those training sessions in the Danger Room have gone out the window, though you couldn't tell he trained at all by his appearances in New Excalibre, and WWH would win because of tactics. Raw power would probably figure into his victory as much as it did into Spider-Man's victory.

Originally posted by Galan007
Juggs back in the day was just written better -- .
Was Juggernaut written better back in the day or are other characters written better now? How many people have wondered why people don't Don Zimmer Juggernaut's momentum elsewhere?

Originally posted by Kutulu
Classic Juggernaut was also winded the time Professor Hulk had his mind tampered with and Hulk punched Juggernaut to break from the illusion, we see classic Juggernaut on the ground on all fours with a surprised look on his face.
Can you see Juggernaut's face in that panel?

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
Was Juggernaut written better back in the day or are other characters written better now? How many people have wondered why people don't Don Zimmer Juggernaut's momentum elsewhere?


Can you see Juggernaut's face in that panel?

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/Hulk3389/comic%20book%20scans/juggslayout.jpg

Originally posted by Kutulu
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/Hulk3389/comic%20book%20scans/juggslayout.jpg
I dont see a suprised juggernaut....

What happen to the small helmet that covers Juggernaut's head?

And how do you knock the air out of someone who doesn't need to breathe?

Originally posted by Kutulu
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/Hulk3389/comic%20book%20scans/juggslayout.jpg Nice. Hulk haters beware.

Originally posted by llagrok
What happen to the small helmet that covers Juggernaut's head?

And how do you knock the air out of someone who doesn't need to breathe?


Maybe he doesn't ned to breathe but clearly he does breathe otherwise how does he talk. It does look as though Juggs is in some discomfort here holding his side and on all fours. This is a bit of a humiliating position for marko

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
I dont see a suprised juggernaut....

He looks surprised to me on the fourth panel, and the next time they show him he's down on his hands and knees holding his abdomen where Hulk punched him. He also says "Unnnnf" indicating that Hulk knocked the wind out of him.

WWH either kills juggernaut outright or makes Cyttorak think twice about needlessly expending his energies in a futile battle with a creature who will always continue to overmatch his puppet (juggernaut).

Originally posted by severance
did he actually stop him - don't remember. Maybe you got a scan.

My point is just being able to walk in a direction unstoppably means jackshit in a fight. It is not a symptom of how strong jugs is but a magic thing. So it doesn ot show how much damage Jugs can dish out. Lifting and smashing feats do show this and Hulk's are much greater than jugs

band

He did not STOP him. He tripped him with the Celestial Arm-Whip, (just made that up ).
He was not stopped.

Originally posted by Horrificus
He did not STOP him. He tripped him with the Celestial Arm-Whip, (just made that up ).
He was not stopped.

He does stop him. It's on panel, why do you think Juggernaut says "impossible!" Notice how the little rocks that indicate he was being pushed back are no longer scattered around, because he stopped Juggernaut dead in his path.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/Hulk3389/hulk457-stopsjuggernaut.jpg

yeah, you are right.
he stopped him. i forgot that panel.

that Celestial Tech sure is something.

Originally posted by Horrificus
yeah, you are right.


You are on your way to redemption, son. smartw00t

Originally posted by Kutulu
He does stop him. It's on panel, why do you think Juggernaut says "impossible!" ...snipped from here on down

While I love Juggernaut in this fight, and note that Apocalypse's word balloon completely invalidates this a Hulk feat and if Wolverine had become War instead of Death he could've done it too, I always find the second panel on the second posted page hilarious. Juggernaut's mask does 'sad' face!

Stalemate.

With someone pointing a gun to my head, Juggernaut.

WW Hulk wins this.

Through BFR then yeah. Otherwise no because he can't do anything to him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Nice. Hulk haters beware.



Hey Quan? That doesn't look like the real Juggs. That panel sounds like it was an illusion. 2nd, Juggs doesn't breathe. So it's automatically PIS.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Hey Quan? That doesn't look like the real Juggs. That panel sounds like it was an illusion. 2nd, Juggs doesn't breathe. So it's automatically PIS. Juggernaut was Banner's father in Hulk's mind, and when he found out it wasn't his father, he flipped.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Hey Quan? That doesn't look like the real Juggs. That panel sounds like it was an illusion. 2nd, Juggs doesn't breathe. So it's automatically PIS. Everything you dont like is pis. You really say pis all the time. Its all you do.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Hey Quan? That doesn't look like the real Juggs. That panel sounds like it was an illusion. 2nd, Juggs doesn't breathe. So it's automatically PIS.

The illusion was generated by the guy in the machine wearing the oddball helmet that you see in the panel: he was projecting into Hulk's mind that Juggernaut was really Hulk's father. When Hulk broke out of the illusion he punched Juggernaut so hard it knocked the wind out of him, whether Juggernaut has to breath or not he still holds air in his lungs so that he can talk and such.

Exactly so it wasn't pain so Hulk can't hurt him.

Originally posted by B.A
Exactly so it wasn't pain so Hulk can't hurt him.

Ok so how about I come to your house, palm-punch you in the solar plexus and knock the wind out of you. When you're lying on the ground gasping for breath, I'll say that since it didn't hurt you, you must be fine.

Once again you show the forum that you are retarded.

Its has MAGIC power by a god or something.

Magic >>>>> Hulk.

Retard.

Originally posted by B.A
Its has MAGIC power by a god or something.


YO pass that shit over here, I want some of what you're smokin'. durpot

Cytorrak is not a god, for the last godamn time, he is considered for all intensive purposes to be a demon / shard realm ruler. You're just trolling right now, you don't even know much about the character you are trying to defend.

Originally posted by Kutulu
The illusion was generated by the guy in the machine wearing the oddball helmet that you see in the panel: he was projecting into Hulk's mind that Juggernaut was really Hulk's father. When Hulk broke out of the illusion he punched Juggernaut so hard it knocked the wind out of him, whether Juggernaut has to breath or not he still holds air in his lungs so that he can talk and such.
He talked while being a skeleton..so there goes your still air in the lungs theory.

Originally posted by Kutulu
YO pass that shit over here, I want some of what you're smokin'. durpot

Cytorrak is not a god, for the last godamn time, he is considered for all intensive purposes to be a demon / shard realm ruler. You're just trolling right now, you don't even know much about the character you are trying to defend.

You know nothing. Juggs feels no pain. Your f*cking stupid.

Originally posted by B.A
Its has MAGIC power by a god or something.

Magic >>>>> Hulk.

Retard. You really insult way to much. You fail.

Originally posted by B.A


You know nothing. Juggs feels no pain. Your f*cking stupid. To knock the wind out of Juggs is impressive. You know it and I know it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You really insult way to much. You fail.

When it comes to people like you and how stupid you act then its the only thing you can do because you refuse to listen. You fail.

Originally posted by quanchi112
To knock the wind out of Juggs is impressive. You know it and I know it.

Yes, but its not pain is it. Juggs talked and smiled as a skeleton. Juggs wont be knocked out or feel pain.

Oh and when you said I insult he insulted me just before if you watch.

Originally posted by B.A
When it comes to people like you and how stupid you act then its the only thing you can do because you refuse to listen. You fail. Look listen up and listen good. these two characters met in WW Hulk and WW Hulk looked much better. He went through two shitty x-teams cain once and then when he needed to get rid of Juggs he got rid of Juggs. Simple WW Hulk wins here.

Originally posted by quanchi112
To knock the wind out of Juggs is impressive. You know it and I know it.


Theres no wind to knock out,and he wasnt beating juggs and he wont ever do it without outside assistace.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Look listen up and listen good. these two characters met in WW Hulk and WW Hulk looked much better. He went through two shitty x-teams cain once and then when he needed to get rid of Juggs he got rid of Juggs. Simple WW Hulk wins here. In BFR yes, but he isn't arguing that. Listen and learn for once.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Theres no wind to knock out

SO praytell, what is inside of his chest? A vacuum? Peanut butter? Since he has no "wind to knock out", I'm curious what he does with that huge empty cavity that resides under his rib cage.

Originally posted by Kutulu
SO praytell, what is inside of his chest? A vacuum? Peanut butter? Since he has no "wind to knock out", I'm curious what he does with that huge empty cavity that resides under his rib cage. He has wind but he lost his body and smiled. Argue with that.

Originally posted by B.A
He has wind but he lost his body and smiled. Argue with that.

So what you are telling me is that vlaaad12345 is full of sh*t, is that correct?

First off, in WWH Juggernaut was NOT stopped. Redirecting =/= stop.

As for Juggernaut being "winded", that is not what happened.

Lets break it down to the panels in which Juggernaut was shown:

Panel 1:

Juggernaut gets hit in the stomach. This does not cause damage, but due to every action has an reaction the air in Cains stomach is forced out of his lungs.

Cain can survive without oxygen, that doesn't mean he doesn't breathe. He is the human Juggernaut, so it comes naturally. Plus he would need to draw in air to talk.

Cain also doesn't need any type of liquid for nourishment, but that isn't going to stop him from going to a bar.

Panel 2:

Hulk is screaming "Get out of my head!". Cain is starting to get up off the ground. His other is not shown.

In between panels:

This is Hulk basically fighting his inner demons.

Final Panel:

Juggernaut, Red Skull, the guy doing the mind thing, and some random guy look on with a "OH NOES" face as Hulk causes the psychic backlash wave.

Originally posted by Kutulu
So what you are telling me is that vlaaad12345 is full of sh*t, is that correct? Just misinformed.

Now prove me wrong.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
First off, in WWH Juggernaut was NOT stopped. Redirecting =/= stop.


His forward momentum was stopped by redirecting it downward. In other words, he was no longer moving forward.

Originally posted by Kutulu
His forward momentum was stopped by redirecting it downward. In other words, he was no longer moving forward.

You're an idiot.

A cars wheels redirect the car. It was not stopped. The writer himself said Juggernaut was NOT stopped.

Originally posted by Kutulu
SO praytell, what is inside of his chest? A vacuum? Peanut butter? Since he has no "wind to knock out", I'm curious what he does with that huge empty cavity that resides under his rib cage.


You fail, allow me to explain if you will.

Juggernaut doesn't need to breath, Period, end of story. The fact that he had the wind knocked out of him, when he doesn't need to breath is PIS because in order to have the wind knocked out of him; he would have to be gasping for air.

So ask yourself, why would someone who doesn't need to breath, gasp for air?

As for whats in his chest, probably lungs, a heart, his rib cage maybe, still doesn't change the fact he doesn't need to breath. The man fought as a skeleton, WITH NO LUNGS ONLY BONES for crying out loud.

Stop with this non-sense, People will always cling to one or two bad showings from Juggernaut that are full of PIS, but lets ignore all the times Hulk has been KO'ed then say he is impossible to KO.

I thought we went by average showings on this forum?

ON average, Hulk gets mad a a steady pace, he doesn't jump straight to stupid the second somebody punches him.

ON average, Juggernaut is invincible, and pretty much does what he wants.

Interesting.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
You're an idiot.

A cars wheels redirect the car. It was not stopped. The writer himself said Juggernaut was NOT stopped.

The writer stated that his forward momentum was stopped.

You are trying to overlap one statement over what happened, which causes your argument to fail on grounds of logic.

Let me try to explain: When Juggernaut's forward momentum (note that I didn't just say momentum) was forced downward, Juggernaut was still exerting as much pressure as he was before on moving forward, except now it was facing downwards towards the ground. In terms of forward movement he was no longer moving forward. Therefore it can be said that his forward momentum was stopped, since he was no longer moving forward, but now putting pressure onto the ground.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
You fail, allow me to explain if you will.

The fact that he had the wind knocked out of him, when he doesn't need to breath is PIS because in order to have the wind knocked out of him; he would have to be gasping for air.

Hahah, once again the Hulk haters put all of his feats as PIS.

You see what you see on-panel and simply chose to disbelieve the writer. So in effect you are ignoring evidence that's on-panel and make up a story in your head about what really happens.

See the problem with that is that you make up one explanation, and someone else picks another feat and says PIS and makes up their own explanation, and pretty soon everybody is ignoring on-panel evidence. That's why the Hulk haters on this forum strike me as funny, because one of their favorite characters could do the same thing and they look at it as a mighty feat to show how strong their character is.

I hate to break it to you, but on-panel evidence > any excuse you can make up for what happened in your mind when you read the story.

Originally posted by Kutulu
The writer stated that his forward momentum was stopped.

You are trying to overlap one statement over what happened, which causes your argument to fail on grounds of logic.

Let me try to explain: When Juggernaut's forward momentum (note that I didn't just say momentum) was forced downward, Juggernaut was still exerting as much pressure as he was before on moving forward, except now it was facing downwards towards the ground. In terms of forward movement he was no longer moving forward. Therefore it can be said that his forward momentum was stopped, since he was no longer moving forward, but now putting pressure onto the ground.

Your argument failed when you said, "The writer stated that his forward momentum was stopped.", which isn't true. He was still moving forward, just at a different angle putting pressure on the mansions foundation, because he was still pushing Hulk back.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
You're an idiot.

A cars wheels redirect the car. It was not stopped. The writer himself said Juggernaut was NOT stopped.

Once again, the writer said that the Hulk's forward momentum was stopped. I never said otherwise. You are trying to place words in my mouth for something I never said. Your car analogy is wrong because the proper laws of kinetics and physics cannot be explained with that model.

Let me put it in a way even a retard like you can understand: Juggernaut was still exerting pressure downward, and was not moving forward. Is that too complex for you, or do I need to dumb it down even further?

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Theres no wind to knock out,and he wasnt beating juggs and he wont ever do it without outside assistace. Read WW Hulk and see how easy it was for the Hulk to just get rid of Juggernaut. He was just a nuisance to the Hulk.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Your argument failed when you said, "The writer stated that his forward momentum was stopped.", which isn't true. He was still moving forward, just at a different angle, because he was still pushing Hulk back.

They were both standing there in the same spot, Hulk not moving, Juggernaut not moving. Juggernaut was exerting momentum that was being directed downwards. The writer backed this up. You fail.

Originally posted by Kutulu
The writer stated that his forward momentum was stopped.

You are trying to overlap one statement over what happened, which causes your argument to fail on grounds of logic.

Let me try to explain: When Juggernaut's forward momentum (note that I didn't just say momentum) was forced downward, Juggernaut was still exerting as much pressure as he was before on moving forward, except now it was facing downwards towards the ground. In terms of forward movement he was no longer moving forward. Therefore it can be said that his forward momentum was stopped, since he was no longer moving forward, but now putting pressure onto the ground.

And after Juggernaut regained himself, Hulk started to slide back.

Therefore, Hulk momentarily redirected it.

But lets put a spin on it, Lets say Hulk DID in fact stop Juggernaut right, OK I'll play along.

What happened after the initial stop? I'll tell you, in a direct Contest of strength, Juggernaut started to push Hulk back, interesting right?

You see, in order for Juggernaut to be unstoppable, he would have to be in motion right?

Therefore we can conclude that in a direct contest of strength, Juggernaut pushed Hulk back, interesting?

You can retract you argument now...

Originally posted by Kutulu
Once again, the writer said that the Hulk's forward momentum was stopped. I never said otherwise. You are trying to place words in my mouth for something I never said. Your car analogy is wrong because the proper laws of kinetics and physics cannot be explained with that model.

Let me put it in a way even a retard like you can understand: Juggernaut was still exerting pressure downward, and was not moving forward. Is that too complex for you, or do I need to dumb it down even further? Retard.

Kettle, Pot, black.

Originally posted by B.A
In BFR yes, but he isn't arguing that. Listen and learn for once. Juggs cant hurt the WW Hulk really at all. Juggs and WW Hulk werent budging when they ran into each other. Juggs wasnt pushing WW Hulk backward.

Did people read the same WWH: X-Men #3 as I did?

Juggs was kicking the shit out of Hulk, or at least winning on points.

Originally posted by B.A
Retard.

Kettle, Pot, black. Quit with the insults it is really getting old. Respect your fellow posters. He hasnt insulted you so why call him a retard when he is correct to boot.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Your argument failed when you said, "The writer stated that his forward momentum was stopped.", which isn't true. He was still moving forward, just at a different angle putting pressure on the mansions foundation, because he was still pushing Hulk back.

Listen since my layman's terms explanation was too complex for someone as obtuse as yourself to understand, let me break it down in 8th grade math terms (you did pass 8th grade, I hope?)

When the momentum of an object passes the 90 degree mark underneath of that object (referred to as "pitch", then the object's momentum is no longer moving forward. http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/rocket_sci/shuttle/attitude/pitch.gif

Originally posted by Bransolute
Did people read the same WWH: X-Men #3 as I did?

Juggs was kicking the shit out of Hulk. You are being sarcastic right?

Originally posted by Kutulu
Hahah, once again the Hulk haters put all of his feats as PIS.

You see what you see on-panel and simply chose to disbelieve the writer. So in effect you are ignoring evidence that's on-panel and make up a story in your head about what really happens.

See the problem with that is that you make up one explanation, and someone else picks another feat and says PIS and makes up their own explanation, and pretty soon everybody is ignoring on-panel evidence. That's why the Hulk haters on this forum strike me as funny, because one of their favorite characters could do the same thing and they look at it as a mighty feat to show how strong their character is.

I hate to break it to you, but on-panel evidence > any excuse you can make up for what happened in your mind when you read the story.

Thats fine, do you wish me to tell you all the times Hulk has been KO'ed in the past?

Originally posted by Apolloknight
And after Juggernaut regained himself, Hulk started to slide back.

Therefore, Hulk momentarily redirected it.

But lets put a spin on it, Lets say Hulk DID in fact stop Juggernaut right, OK I'll play along.

What happened after the initial stop? I'll tell you, in a direct Contest of strength, Juggernaut started to push Hulk back, interesting right?

You see, in order for Juggernaut to be unstoppable, he would have to be in motion right?

Therefore we can conclude that in a direct contest of strength, Juggernaut pushed Hulk back, interesting?

You can retract you argument now...

Originally posted by Bransolute
Did people read the same WWH: X-Men #3 as I did?

Juggs was kicking the shit out of Hulk, or at least winning on points.

(Shhhh, some people only read certain parts)

Originally posted by quanchi112
You are being sarcastic right? Not at all. And if you read the fight, you'd see this.

I really don't see how people give Hulk the win in that fight.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Thats fine, do you wish me to tell you all the times Hulk has been KO'ed in the past? This is WW Hulk and the past is dead my friend.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
And after Juggernaut regained himself, Hulk started to slide back.

Therefore, Hulk momentarily redirected it.

But lets put a spin on it, Lets say Hulk DID in fact stop Juggernaut right, OK I'll play along.

What happened after the initial stop? I'll tell you, in a direct Contest of strength, Juggernaut started to push Hulk back, interesting right?

You see, in order for Juggernaut to be unstoppable, he would have to be in motion right?

Therefore we can conclude that in a direct contest of strength, Juggernaut pushed Hulk back, interesting?

You can retract you argument now...

You are putting words into my mouth. Let me break it down for you in the most basic way that even a retard such as yourself can understand.

FORWARD MOMENTUM. EXERTING ENERGY MOVING FORWARD.

DOWNWARD MOMENTUM. EXERTING ENERGY MOVING DOWNWARD.

STOP. NOT MOVING ANYWHERE.


Now can you see the difference between those three terms or is that still too complex for you?

Originally posted by Kutulu
They were both standing there in the same spot, Hulk not moving, Juggernaut not moving. Juggernaut was exerting momentum that was being directed downwards. The writer backed this up. You fail.

They grappled at a stand still after trading blows, the Juggernaut started to push the Hulk backward.

For Hulk to push Juggernaut directly down, stopping his forward momentum as you say, he would literally have to be pushing straight down on him, in which he wasn't. He too, was applying force at an angle.

So Juggernaut was still moving forward, and pushing Hulk back.

The writer never backed that up, so you fail.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Listen since my layman's terms explanation was too complex for someone as obtuse as yourself to understand, let me break it down in 8th grade math terms (you did pass 8th grade, I hope?)

When the momentum of an object passes the 90 degree mark underneath of that object (referred to as "pitch", then the object's momentum is no longer moving forward. http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/rocket_sci/shuttle/attitude/pitch.gif

See this is where your argument fails. Nowhere did the writer or even the art say Hulk was pushing Juggernaut down at a 90 degree angle. Nice try. Apparently you didn't finish school.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Quit with the insults it is really getting old. Respect your fellow posters. He hasnt insulted you so why call him a retard when he is correct to boot. Oh shut up. He insulted like I did so quit your moaning, your pathetic, trying to be a mod.

Originally posted by quanchi112


Its so hard to argue against what happened on panel in Hulks own book I know.

Originally posted by Kutulu
You are putting words into my mouth. Let me break it down for you in the most basic way that even a retard such as yourself can understand.

FORWARD MOMENTUM. EXERTING ENERGY MOVING FORWARD.

DOWNWARD MOMENTUM. EXERTING ENERGY MOVING DOWNWARD.

STOP. NOT MOVING ANYWHERE.


Now can you see the difference between those three terms or is that still too complex for you?


So we agree, Hulk didnt stop Juggernaut, all is well then.

Originally posted by Bransolute
Not at all. And if you read the fight, you'd see this.

I really don't see how people give Hulk the win in that fight. I dont know what you are seeing that Im not. He punched him,stomped on Hulk's head, and headrammed him. Hulk was fine. Hulk told him that nobody listens and that what happened in the past was dead, and he didnt have all day and dismissed him.

Originally posted by Kutulu
SO praytell, what is inside of his chest? A vacuum? Peanut butter? Since he has no "wind to knock out", I'm curious what he does with that huge empty cavity that resides under his rib cage.
Nothing,he talked while having no lungs or anything else but a skeleton.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
So we agree, Hulk didnt stop Juggernaut, all is well then.

I never said he stopped Juggernaut. I said he stopped his forward momentum. The only time he stopped Juggernaut was as War Hulk.

Originally posted by B.A
Oh shut up. He insulted like I did so quit your moaning, your pathetic, trying to be a mod. I am not trying to be a mod here but the insults arent needed. Thats all most of your posts consist of anyways.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Nothing,he talked while having no lungs or anything else but a skeleton.

Just simple nothingness? Even other people backing up Juggernaut don't agree with you there.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Just simple nothingness? Even other people backing up Juggernaut don't agree with you there.
I dont care what they agree with they are wrong,he doesnt breathe,and he didnt have anything but a skeleton yet still talked,your forgetting juggernauts powers are all magic and they allow him to do that.

Originally posted by Kutulu
I never said he stopped Juggernaut. I said he stopped his forward momentum. The only time he stopped Juggernaut was as War Hulk.

He Redirected it; for a moment, and then started to get pushed back again.

Be we pretty much agree.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Just simple nothingness? Even other people backing up Juggernaut don't agree with you there.

Who would that be?

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
I dont care what they agree with they are wrong,he doesnt breathe,and he didnt have anything but a skeleton yet still talked,your forgetting juggernauts powers are all magic and they allow him to do that.

I never have disputed that Juggernaut gained his power from magic, and I have seen the scans of him as a skeleton being consumed by hate allowing him to continue onwards. What I am questioning about what you said, and only you said, is that there is pure nothingness inside of Juggernaut's chest.

I have never heard anybody on any comic board say that before, so I am wondering, how can you back up what you're telling me? Even the people that say Juggernaut would wind this fight agree with me that his chest is filled with air.

Kutulu, point out where the writer said Hulk was pushing down at a 90 degree angle, and not 45 degrees or 23 degrees. Because those two angles are downward in this instance.

I'll use your plane example for this.

Have you ever been on a plane about to reach your destination, then the Captain makes this announcement:

"All right Ladies and Gentlemen, please buckle your seat belts as we are about to make our downward decent into ."