Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

So, who takes this, Luke or Maul?

I am going to have to go with Maul. He has had more and in my opinion better training since Ben died,he left yoda early and then there is the lack of time that Maul had to perfect his powers. Maul has Luke outmatched.

Maul would beat Luke in a saber fight imo.

Maul takes Luke in the saber fight, but in terms of Force it's hard to tell. Luke's powers weren't well developed in ROTJ, although not much is known about Maul's powers, he might atleast have Lightning (I think it's a trait that Sid's passes on to his students.) Soo I go with Maul.

Maul

Luke skywalker if he can beat vader he can beat maul

Vader = Slow. Maul = Finesse. Maul wins.

Originally posted by coolmovies
Luke skywalker if he can beat vader he can beat maul

Vader was not going all out since he wanted to convert Luke to the dark side.(i believe he recognizes this fact in another book that vader could have beat him) Luke used the darkside because vader was taunting him and Maul's style does not involve taunting. Maul takes this

Luke will definitely be overwhelmed by Maul.
Skywalker has never faced an opponent who wields a double-bladed saber by this time, I think he will be taken aback. Add to this, that Maul is one of the best fighters ever, and has mastered this weapon to a very, very high degree, and that by RotJ Luke is still very unexperienced and has not untapped half of his true potential. In my opinion, Luke's doomed.

Maul takes this. He is far superior in just about every way.

Luke wins on 3 grounds

1) More adept in the force than maul
Evidence: in ROTJ he forced choked those 2 gammoreans outside of jabab's den with almost no effort, when maul had'nt done anything nearly as impressive with the force, if so he would have been able to intercept obiwans force jump in tpm when obi killed him.

2) more physical strength.
Evidence: in ROTJ luke went toe to toe with vader, both using djem so and he actually made vader back up. that speaks to his physical strength, whereas maul barely beat an old man.

3) saber style

djem so beats juyo. and as we see when padawan obi broke his lighstaff in half his saber style was like a deer caught in the headlights when forced to use one blade. so if a padawan obi could cut his blade in half then a jedi knight luke could definitely do it, then its all in lukes favor from there.

1) Hmm, are we talking the same luke who forget to use the force to throw a rock? And I remember to see Maul killing a guy with force choke and enduring the pain of a forcel lightning, in the EU, when he fought the black sun...

2) Ahaha, more physical power then Maul? No comments, really...

3) Djem So beats Juyo? Prove me. Really, i want to see 1 evidence about it. And about the rest of the arg, completly pathetic, obi1 broke his staff in 2 after a rage attack that surprised maul, and after that, guess what, maul beat obi-wan. Ah, and I would like you to prove me that jedi knight luke>jedi knight obi1, because in case you forgot TPM obi1 was given the rank of jedi knight after maul's defeat and even qui.gon said he had nothing more to teach him.

Originally posted by kamhal
3) Djem So beats Juyo? Prove me. Really, i want to see 1 evidence about it. And about the rest of the arg, completly pathetic, obi1 broke his staff in 2 after a rage attack that surprised maul, and after that, guess what, maul beat obi-wan. Ah, and I would like you to prove me that jedi knight luke>jedi knight obi1, because in case you forgot TPM obi1 was given the rank of jedi knight after maul's defeat and even qui.gon said he had nothing more to teach him.

Not to mention Obiwan as close to the darkside due to mual killinh Qui-gon. And you have to add to the fact the Luke has never even seen a double bladed lightsaber before (as of rotj) and he probably never even heard of it. Maul is not the type of fighter who taunts his oppenents like Vader did which made him close to turning when he attacked Vader.He will not have that type of rage against Maul.

Originally posted by Darth Hord Maul is not the type of fighter who taunts his oppenents like Vader did which made him close to turning when he attacked Vader.

Completely incorrect.

The very reason Maul died is because he taunted his opponent.

Yes, but Maul did not usually taunt his opponents, he was taught not to. I believe that one of the few (if not the only time) Maul has taunted an opponent was in this occasion.
Ironically enough, this only taunt led him to his death.

Originally posted by Se7in
Completely incorrect.

The very reason Maul died is because he taunted his opponent.

Um in the comic he taunted but the original one did not taunt all hell he did not talk all in his duel with obiwan and qui gon.

Originally posted by 0°Mandalore°0
Yes, but Maul did not usually taunt his opponents, he was taught not to. I believe that one of the few (if not the only time) Maul has taunted an opponent was in this occasion.
Ironically enough, this only taunt led him to his death.

Exactly that is the only fight in which I have seen him taunt was his fight with Vader he was not taunting in episode one. And I don't recall him saying to much in his other comic fights.

Originally posted by kamhal
1) Hmm, are we talking the same luke who forget to use the force to throw a rock? And I remember to see Maul killing a guy with force choke and enduring the pain of a forcel lightning, in the EU, when he fought the black sun...

2) Ahaha, more physical power then Maul? No comments, really...

3) Djem So beats Juyo? Prove me. Really, i want to see 1 evidence about it. And about the rest of the arg, completly pathetic, obi1 broke his staff in 2 after a rage attack that surprised maul, and after that, guess what, maul beat obi-wan. Ah, and I would like you to prove me that jedi knight luke>jedi knight obi1, because in case you forgot TPM obi1 was given the rank of jedi knight after maul's defeat and even qui.gon said he had nothing more to teach him.

1) luke was using the force to read vaders mind "your thoughts betray you". not to mention as before the gammorean example. these are clear signs of luke's vast adeptness in the force. if maul was so powerful in the force he would have used some of those other force powers against the jedi.

2) you give no comments because there are none to make. lukes strength could match that of vaders, maul may be athletic but he is not that strong, otherwise he wouldnt have needed to force push obi wan into the hole, he wouldve been able to overwhelm him in the saberlock.

3) first of all djem so is pretty much the most offesnsive style there is, second of all we see how well maul does when he is being charged. maul's response to being charged is getting his saber cut in half then himself cut in half. by ROTJ luke had been trained by obi wan and yoda who were both better than maul. djem so would end the deul faster. as we see in anakin v dooku djem so > makashi. in dooku v yoda makshi = ataro. in obi v maul ataro > juyo. so djem so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>juyo.

Are you serious? By TPM, Maul was an established Sith warrior. He didn't use the force because he preferred his double bladed saber. By ROTJ, Luke barely beat Vader, and only then because Vader was on the defensive. (If you'll note in ESB, after Luke strikes Vader, he gets pissed, and that's when Luke's hand comes off. You can even hear it in his voice.)

Luke did not have the finesse that Maul did. Maul wins. Get over it.

Originally posted by Orbius
Are you serious? By TPM, Maul was an established Sith warrior. He didn't use the force because he preferred his double bladed saber. By ROTJ, Luke barely beat Vader, and only then because Vader was on the defensive. (If you'll note in ESB, after Luke strikes Vader, he gets pissed, and that's when Luke's hand comes off. You can even hear it in his voice.)

Luke did not have the finesse that Maul did. Maul wins. Get over it.

well this "warrior" of yours (and please site where you found that status) did not have the physical strength to win a saberlock with obi wan. but as you see luke iits the fact that luke was able to get vader on the defensive that speaks to luke's strength.

dude ur just proving my point.

Ok, let me use your logic: Obi-Wan wins against anakin, soresu>djem so; anakin wins against dooku, djem so>soresu; dooku win against obi-wan, makashi>soresu. Let's continue? Windu beats Sidious, juyo>ataru, maul beats vader, juyo>djem so. Dooku beats anakin, makashi>ataru, yoda beats dooku, ataru>makashi. Do you see how STUPID is this logic? Besides djem so isn't the most offensive style of the attack, djem so is on ONE of the most offensive styles, and it's based on strenght. But there are also ataru, based on acrobatics, or juyo, based on agressivity and speed. Ah, and maul did beat obi1, and he was injured when he beat both jedis.

Originally posted by Darth Hord Um in the comic he taunted but the original one did not taunt all hell he did not talk all in his duel with obiwan and qui gon.

1. The movies are the number one canon source, next to George Lucas.

2. The title says TPM Maul, not random comic book Maul.

Originally posted by Se7in
1. The movies are the number one canon source, next to George Lucas.

2. The title says TPM Maul, not random comic book Maul.

Than there is no taunting what soever. Maul's fighting style does not involvetalking at all. The only reason he lost to kenobi was because kenobi was hanging on to a pipe and Maul was overconfident. Maul did no taunting/provoking. That is how come Luke was able to overcome vader was because Vader provoked Luke by saying he could turn Leia and Luke was close to falling to the darkside and Luke would not have that type of rage or fury against Maul.

Yes, it's not in Maul to taunt his opponents. Just because he did so against Kenobi doesn't mean he did against everybody else or most of the time.

I have to go with Maul on this one. In ROTJ Luke had just completed his training and was still quite inexperienced. Maul was trained from birth in combat and the dark side.

Originally posted by kamhal
Ok, let me use your logic: Obi-Wan wins against anakin, soresu>djem so; anakin wins against dooku, djem so>soresu; dooku win against obi-wan, makashi>soresu. Let's continue? Windu beats Sidious, juyo>ataru, maul beats vader, juyo>djem so. Dooku beats anakin, makashi>ataru, yoda beats dooku, ataru>makashi. Do you see how STUPID is this logic? Besides djem so isn't the most offensive style of the attack, djem so is on ONE of the most offensive styles, and it's based on strenght. But there are also ataru, based on acrobatics, or juyo, based on agressivity and speed. Ah, and maul did beat obi1, and he was injured when he beat both jedis.

your whole logic chain and the subsequent point are mute beacause in anakin v obiwan anakin was using ataro and not djem so. (pay close attention to his movements). all that spinning and leaping! and by the way, mace windu was using vaapad and not juyo.

Still, you do get his point, don't you?

1) Anakin was using djem so. It was stated so your point is invalid. Also, it's not uncommon for duelists to use some manouvers from other styles, even though they are using other lightsaber style.

2) Vaadpad is an "upgrade" from juyo, a version from it, but it belongs to the juyo style none the less.

Originally posted by kamhal
1) Anakin was using djem so. It was stated so your point is invalid. Also, it's not uncommon for duelists to use some manouvers from other styles, even though they are using other lightsaber style.

2) Vaadpad is an "upgrade" from juyo, a version from it, but it belongs to the juyo style none the less.

1)show me a source where it says anakin was using djem so and not ataro and while youre at it, find me a source to prove that duelists commonly sample move from other styles while fighting.

2) and upgrade is not the same as the original, one could say that a chicken is an upgrade from an egg , but that doesnt mean a chicken is an egg.

1) "When he turned to the Dark Side and being rechristened Darth Vader, he maintained his Form V mastery, but utilized it in a much more brutal fashion, becoming a frightening opponent. However, his aggression became his fatal flaw, he would become so controlled by it that it would give way to Force Rage. Though younger, more athletic, and a greater swordsman, and gifted with more raw Force power than any Force user, he still lacked the experience, calmness, and focus that his former master possessed. Though Vader could and would call on the dark side to overpower his opponents, his mounting emotions also distracted him from executing his style as well as Obi-Wan executed his."

"On the Invisible Hand, he deceived Dooku with a Shien opening stance and Ataru acrobatics, but partially through the duel, he returned to his powerful Djem So strokes."

Quotes from wookipedia.

2) Stupiest analogy i had ever seen. Vaadpad is an a derivation from juyo, a bit diferent perhaps, but a juyo style in his essential points.

Originally posted by kamhal
1) "When he turned to the Dark Side and being rechristened Darth Vader, he maintained his Form V mastery, but utilized it in a much more brutal fashion, becoming a frightening opponent. However, his aggression became his fatal flaw, he would become so controlled by it that it would give way to Force Rage. Though younger, more athletic, and a greater swordsman, and gifted with more raw Force power than any Force user, he still lacked the experience, calmness, and focus that his former master possessed. Though Vader could and would call on the dark side to overpower his opponents, his mounting emotions also distracted him from executing his style as well as Obi-Wan executed his."

"On the Invisible Hand, he deceived Dooku with a Shien opening stance and Ataru acrobatics, but partially through the duel, he returned to his powerful Djem So strokes."

Quotes from wookipedia.

2) Stupiest analogy i had ever seen. Vaadpad is an a derivation from juyo, a bit diferent perhaps, but a juyo style in his essential points.


1) this doesnt prove that he wasnt using ataro against obi wan.
2) if they were the same there would be no need to have 2 diffrent names. the point is it was vaapad and not juyo. chicken and not egg.

1) Really?
2) Seriously?

..............

Originally posted by kamhal
1) Really?
2) Seriously?

..............

fraid so

Luke fought Maul ( in non-cannon comic) and won.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Luke fought Maul ( in non-cannon comic) and won.

And the battle was a few years after the ROTJ and that Maul was a solid state hologram which had a big advantage and a big weakness at the same time. It can strike but can't be struck back, but if the computer that holds his brain and produces the hologram is turned off then Maul dies. So that battle if an a tough one for me to rate and Im glad it is noncannon.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
And the battle was a few years after the ROTJ and that Maul was a solid state hologram which had a big advantage and a big weakness at the same time. It can strike but can't be struck back, but if the computer that holds his brain and produces the hologram is turned off then Maul dies. So that battle if an a tough one for me to rate and Im glad it is noncannon.

Exactly, and the most important thing about this is that it is NOT CANON. That is actually all that really matters.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
Luke wins on 3 grounds

1) More adept in the force than maul
Evidence: in ROTJ he forced choked those 2 gammoreans outside of jabab's den with almost no effort, when maul had'nt done anything nearly as impressive with the force, if so he would have been able to intercept obiwans force jump in tpm when obi killed him.

2) more physical strength.
Evidence: in ROTJ luke went toe to toe with vader, both using djem so and he actually made vader back up. that speaks to his physical strength, whereas maul barely beat an old man.

3) saber style

djem so beats juyo. and as we see when padawan obi broke his lighstaff in half his saber style was like a deer caught in the headlights when forced to use one blade. so if a padawan obi could cut his blade in half then a jedi knight luke could definitely do it, then its all in lukes favor from there.

1) "djem so beats juyo"......
prove it.

2) Luke diddnt force choke the guards, choke is only a darkside power (unless ur talkin about mace windu who uses chock and crush alot). Luke used force stun. Also, using the force does not take much effort for a well trained jedi/sith.

3) Maul has more strength than luke. In the duel with obi-wan and qui gon, he always wins every saber lock they have, and luke cant even beat vader in a saber lock.

Luke's physical strength is also being aided by the strength of his mechanical arm, however.

Originally posted by Darth_noodle


2) Luke diddnt force choke the guards, choke is only a darkside power (unless ur talkin about mace windu who uses chock and crush alot). Luke used force stun. Also, using the force does not take much effort for a well trained jedi/sith.
. Yes he did you fu(king idiot. If its only a dark side power then why the hell is mace using it seeing that he is a lightsider?

Hell even wookiepedia said choke was used by force luke. The movies ITSELF showed luke choking the guards. My god your such a retard, Get the fu(k of these forums n00b

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Yes he did you fu(king idiot. If its only a dark side power then why the hell is mace using it seeing that he is a lightsider?

Hell even wookiepedia said choke was used by force luke. The movies ITSELF showed luke choking the guards. My god your such a retard, Get the fu(k of these forums n00b

Reported. Iv had it with you cursing, and insulting me on every single thread. May you get a life, and grow a brain, whoops nevermind, im stating the impossible.

Cut it out with the offensive language, GahLakTus. Bypass the censor to iuse such language against someone again and you will be banned.

Originally posted by Darth_noodle
1) "djem so beats juyo"......
prove it.

2) Luke diddnt force choke the guards, choke is only a darkside power (unless ur talkin about mace windu who uses chock and crush alot). Luke used force stun. Also, using the force does not take much effort for a well trained jedi/sith.

3) Maul has more strength than luke. In the duel with obi-wan and qui gon, he always wins every saber lock they have, and luke cant even beat vader in a saber lock.

as previously proven. points 1 and 2 you made are mute.
3)maul couldnt wind a saberlock with padawan obi but you see luke going toe to toe with vader both using djem so which is extremely phycially demanding. vader had 2 mechanical arms which tremendously boosted his power but luke only had 1 mechanical hand and still won. so the strength bonus goes to luke.

or if that doesnt work, heres a more basic logic chain. luke beat vader who is the 2nd best sith in the 6 movies whereas maul is the bottom of the barrel, so luke would slaughter him.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
Vader was not going all out since he wanted to convert Luke to the dark side.(i believe he recognizes this fact in another book that vader could have beat him) Luke used the darkside because vader was taunting him and Maul's style does not involve taunting. Maul takes this

luke wasnt goin all out either because he was trying to convert vader to the light, hence "I will not fight you father."

Originally posted by Man of Christ
or if that doesnt work, heres a more basic logic chain. luke beat vader who is the 2nd best sith in the 6 movies whereas maul is the bottom of the barrel, so luke would slaughter him.

Luke beat Vader under circumstances such as Vader taunting him and not exactly trying to kill him. He was trying to turn him to the darkside and have Luke help him overthrow Sidious. Vader could not convert a dead guy. Besides for the fact Vader was taunting him wanting Luke to give into the darkside so he can be made into a sith. It was only when Luke gave into the darkside. that he injured Vader. Luke would not have the ability to use that type of anger against Maul because Maul never taunts anyone in the way that they would revert to using the darkside.

And Maul did not defeat the bottom of the barrel he did kill Anoon Bondara.

From Darth Maul : Shadow hunter.
I would not call Bondara the bottom of the barrel, Bondara realized that he couldn't kill Maul so he tried to kill maul with himself but failed. And Maul was able to survive this suicied/sacrifice attempt.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
luke wasnt goin all out either because he was trying to convert vader to the light, hence "I will not fight you father."

But he did go all out to defeat Vader (when Vader threatened to convert Leia), whereas Vader was just trying to hold him off. If Vader had fought Luke with full intentions of killing him, Luke would be dead.

It's quite obvious in ROTJ that Vader isn't making a great effort to destroy Luke, he pretty much admits as much.

Vader had far more experience and power. He had faced and beaten better opponents, had survived more desperate situations etc
Luke was his son, and he was unwilling, in the end, to destroy him.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
Luke beat Vader under circumstances such as Vader taunting him and not exactly trying to kill him. He was trying to turn him to the darkside and have Luke help him overthrow Sidious. Vader could not convert a dead guy. Besides for the fact Vader was taunting him wanting Luke to give into the darkside so he can be made into a sith. It was only when Luke gave into the darkside. that he injured Vader. Luke would not have the ability to use that type of anger against Maul because Maul never taunts anyone in the way that they would revert to using the darkside.

And Maul did not defeat the bottom of the barrel he did kill Anoon Bondara.

From Darth Maul : Shadow hunter.
I would not call Bondara the bottom of the barrel, Bondara realized that he couldn't kill Maul so he tried to kill maul with himself but failed. And Maul was able to survive this suicied/sacrifice attempt.

Maul taunting obi was why he died. And EVERYBODY IN THIS FORUM NEEDS TO STOP ACTING LIKE MAUL IS THE BEST THING SINCE SLICE BREAD. IF HE WERE SO GREAT HE WOULD HAVE SURVIVED LONG ENOUGH TO BE IN THE SEQUEL TRILOGY BUT HE IS THE ONLY SITH TO HAVE DIED AFTER ONE MOVIE. SIDDIOUS ALL SIX MOVIES. VADER FOUR MOVIES. DOOKU TWO MOVIES. BUT MAUL ONLY ONE MOVIE.

The fact that he lasted only one movie does not mean he wasn't skilled. That's one of the worst logics I've ever read on these forums. I would like you to mention at least two other Sith apprentices who are strong enough to defeat Kenobi, an above average padawan who was very talented with the saber, and Qui-Gon, one of the best saber duelists of the Order (TpM), being the equal of Mace Windu by TpM.
Maul is described as being one of the deadliest Sith apprentices ever. Period. You simply cannot argue against that.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
dude he was the only sith in the movies killed by a padawan, for all the others it took a master or a knight.
but he still died by an obi before his prime and a quigon past his prime.
for dooku, yoda at his prime was even with him.

So what does that mean? He was OVERCONFIDENT pacing back forth like that is quite clearly overconfidence.

And he made Anoon Bondara realized who's saber skills were described as second to none that he could not kill Maul. That speaks volume's of Maul's skills. Furthermore kenobi's killing move caught him off guard as he was hanging from a rod than he jumps of and slashes him. Maul could not react. After being hit from force lighting that brought him to his knees he immediately got back up and killed the witch, this was during his assassinations of the black sun members. Another big advantage is that Luke would never had encountered someone who uses the double bladed lightsaber and he would be confused by it considering he had very limited training and Maul's fighting style also includes some level of martial arts with him using his body as well performing unusual maneuveres that Luke has also never seen.

As for Qui gon-Qui-Gon Jinn was one of the most able swordsmen in the Jedi order TPM novel and Maul killed him. Given Maul's experience,unique fighting style,a silent fighter (luke would not have the rage he attacked vader with) and Luke's lack of training and experience Maul wins.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
So what does that mean? He was OVERCONFIDENT pacing back forth like that is quite clearly overconfidence.

And he made Anoon Bondara realized who's saber skills were described as second to none that he could not kill Maul. That speaks volume's of Maul's skills. Furthermore kenobi's killing move caught him off guard as he was hanging from a rod than he jumps of and slashes him. Maul could not react. After being hit from force lighting that brought him to his knees he immediately got back up and killed the witch, this was during his assassinations of the black sun members. Another big advantage is that Luke would never had encountered someone who uses the double bladed lightsaber and he would be confused by it considering he had very limited training and Maul's fighting style also includes some level of martial arts with him using his body as well performing unusual maneuveres that Luke has also never seen.

As for Qui gon-Qui-Gon Jinn was one of the most able swordsmen in the Jedi order TPM novel and Maul killed him. Given Maul's experience,unique fighting style,a silent fighter (luke would not have the rage he attacked vader with) and Luke's lack of training and experience Maul wins.

1) im quite sure obi wan was just as new to the dueling a guy with 2 sabers thing and he still pulled it off.
2) STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR MAUL if he were so great then he would have been able to react to obi wans counter attack and not just stand there watching him do it. and his overconfidence would cloud his judgment fighting a clear headed lightsider like luke

Originally posted by Man of Christ
1) im quite sure obi wan was just as new to the dueling a guy with 2 sabers thing and he still pulled it off.
2) STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR MAUL if he were so great then he would have been able to react to obi wans counter attack and not just stand there watching him do it. and his overconfidence would cloud his judgment fighting a clear headed lightsider like luke

1. New dueling a double bladed lightsaber yes. But he did have Qui-gpn there too. Plus he has been trained as a jedi for years and years. He has knowledge of lightsaber combat that Luke would most likely not have any knowledge.Notice how kenobi could only contend with Maul was after Qui gon was killed then only cut the sabe rin half got outdueled with asingle saber by Maul and he was using the darkside during all of this which Luke wont have here. And he did get lucky against Maul who was able to out duel him even when kenobi used the darkside. He got overconfident after he had kenobi hanging not during the duel with him over Qui-gon body's. Which is in itself is impressive to out dueingl a pair of jedi.

2.I'm not making excuses for Maul he die. But saying if he was so great then he would have been able to do this.....is not a very good arguement as is the #of movies he was in. A clear headed Luke was defeated by Vader in ESB and a clearheaded Luke could not handle Vader in ROTJ so he was forced to hide. Meanwhile you have yet to address the point of Maul having better fore resistance,defeating someone who is second to none . Your entire arguement so farhas been screen time,maul is overrated,luke defeated Vader when using the darkside (and still wanted to use his son vs Sidious.) real convincing.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
1. New dueling a double bladed lightsaber yes. But he did have Qui-gpn there too. Plus he has been trained as a jedi for years and years. He has knowledge of lightsaber combat that Luke would most likely not have any knowledge.Notice how kenobi could only contend with Maul was after Qui gon was killed then only cut the sabe rin half got outdueled with asingle saber by Maul and he was using the darkside during all of this which Luke wont have here. And he did get lucky against Maul who was able to out duel him even when kenobi used the darkside. He got overconfident after he had kenobi hanging not during the duel with him over Qui-gon body's. Which is in itself is impressive to out dueingl a pair of jedi.

2.I'm not making excuses for Maul he die. But saying if he was so great then he would have been able to do this.....is not a very good arguement as is the #of movies he was in. A clear headed Luke was defeated by Vader in ESB and a clearheaded Luke could not handle Vader in ROTJ so he was forced to hide. Meanwhile you have yet to address the point of Maul having better fore resistance,defeating someone who is second to none . Your entire arguement so farhas been screen time,maul is overrated,luke defeated Vader when using the darkside (and still wanted to use his son vs Sidious.) real convincing.

1) Qui-gon being there doesnt matter because maul had to separate them.m luke is a fast learner like his father which is why he beat vader with basically less than a year of training. kenobi didnt get lucky against maul, maul was just so unskilled. that counter attack obi wan did could have easily been diverted by a sith that knew what they were doing, hence maul couldve used the force to push him back in th hole. mauls death was his own fault.

2) #of movies does have some correlation, why do you thing only the really good jedi/sith were in more movies, like siddious, obiwan,yoda ki adi mundi, etc... in ESB luke was not clearheaded, he was still filled with the impacience and anxiety he expiirenced on dagobah when he had the vision of his endangered friends. in ROTJ he was calmer so he was able to face vader and won. yep the fat that vader wanted to recruit luke speaks to his power. siddious wanted to recruit luke too and said "he will become a powerful ally" luke must have been pretty powerful if siddious was willing to break the rule of two.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
1) Qui-gon being there doesnt matter because maul had to separate them.m luke is a fast learner like his father which is why he beat vader with basically less than a year of training. kenobi didnt get lucky against maul, maul was just so unskilled. that counter attack obi wan did could have easily been diverted by a sith that knew what they were doing, hence maul couldve used the force to push him back in th hole. mauls death was his own fault.

That speaks for Maul's skill being able to separate the 2 while fighting them. Still use the darkside to overwhelm him. Maul unskilled?lol He wa surprised at the move nothing more especially since he pacing back and forth. Maul's death as his own fault but you are making it sound like Maul how no business being there.



Plot pure and simple. Out of universe the reason was to introiduce the sith and each episode in the pt a new villian is introduced. Maul,Dooku, and Greivious. IN universe-Sidiou foresees Maul's death(jedi vs sith guide) and does not caution him because Maul had served his purpose and would not be able to do what Sidious needed which is whyCount Dooku was needed. Luke was in calmer state of mind otherwise. The point is Luke got tooled in ESB when not using the darkside and Vader was not trying to kill him. That speaks of the power Luke was going to have if he had been fully trained he was not powerful in ROTJ or ESB since they tell him to join and let them complete the training.

I gtg know so my argument will be cut short I will respond later today.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
dude he was the only sith in the movies killed by a padawan, for all the others it took a master or a knight.
but he still died by an obi before his prime and a quigon past his prime.
for dooku, yoda at his prime was even with him.

Apparently you need to watch the movie again. He DID NOT by any means defeat Maul. Maul was a vastly superior fighter, and he overpowered him. In case you do not remember, Maul had him at his feet literally. The only reason why Kenobi was able to kill Maul was because he started to play with him instead of killing him.

About the Padawan and Knight thing, again, in case you are forgetting, right after the death of Qui-Gon, Kenobi was promoted to Jedi Knight. This obviously means that even before he fought Maul he already was skilled enough to become a Jedi Knight.

And for god's sake, Dooku is NOT equal to Yoda at his prime. What could possibly make you say that?

Maul's accomplishments/strengths

Master of double bladed lightsaber combat uses Juyo as well as martial arts in his fighting style.

He killed many high ranking members of the black sun including its leader as well as his night sister guard Mighella.(He got up very quickly after her force lightning stopped him temporarily and killed her immediately afterwards)

Anoon Bondara whose lightsaber skill is described as second to none (Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter)A Twi'lek, with slender head-tails and a heavily muscled upper body, his name was Anoon Bondara, a duelist of unparalleled skill. Qui-Gon engaged him in matches at every opportunity. For a match with Bondara, no matter how brief, was more instructive than twenty contests against lesser opponents. Yet even he could not defeat Maul.

Darsha Assant died in a very similar way to as her master Anoon could not kill Maul yet she also was able to beat Kenobi in a mock duel.

He out dueled Kenobi and Qui-gon then he later kill Qui-gon whose skill was very good and this was said of him in TMP novel Qui-Gon Jinn was one of the most able swordsmen in the Jedi order

He also out dueled Kenobi who was enraged with the darkside. Further more Maul himself admits that he was injured on Tattoine from the sand people. A few quotes from it.http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Episode_I_Journal:_Darth_Maul

The howling intensifies. The Raiders shake their gaderffii and begin to surround me. There are just too many of them. I can take out four or five in the flicker of an eyelash, but that will just infuriate the rest........ I never run away from a battle. But this one will tax me, and my strength is needed for the Jedi. If my Master hears I have been wounded, he will be furious........... I turn my back to them, but only for an instant. I run straight for the canyon wall. I don't have much distance to cover, so I have to run fast. I feel the tearing wound in my left thigh, but I push it aside. Pain is another annoyance. It will not slow me down. I run up the sheer wall, calling up the dark side to escape my enemies. My contempt and my anger at the Tusken Raiders help me. I am able to scale the wall despite the pain. With a final burst of strength that sends red agony through my leg, I flip over backward, fly over the surprised upturned faces of the Raiders, and land behind them. They are so startled they don't react. That gives me a head start. I take off through the canyon, heading back to my ship. My wound troubles me, but now my annoyance is toward myself for feeling it. I force myself to run with my usual strength and speed.

So Maul was never at a 100% in T.P.M. Yet he still was able to do so much with an injury.

Please tell how Luke with far less training,little experience, and who will not have the same rage had when dueling Vader would be able to beat Maul.

Twi'lek, with slender head-tails and a heavily muscled upper body, his name was Anoon Bondara, a duelist of unparalleled skill. Qui-Gon engaged him in matches at every opportunity. For a match with Bondara, no matter how brief, was more instructive than twenty contests against lesser opponents.

Just for the record this was from Cloak of deception not shadow hunter. My bad that I did not write it.

2 things.
Maul still got killed by a padawan.
luke had the endurance to survive palpatines contiuous force lighting, speaks volumes to his power.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
2 things.
Maul still got killed by a padawan.
luke had the endurance to survive palpatines contiuous force lighting, speaks volumes to his power.

Read my post above.

If you put it that way: how about Maul enduring Palpatine's cruel trainings and tortures over many years? Doesn't that also speak volumes to his power? Try again.
By the way, power has nothing to do with endurance. They are two completely different things.

Two things Luke by this time has never actually won a saber fight unless something happened to him.
Sidious lightning was designed to torture him not kill. Maul has great endurance to since he fought Qui-gon and Kenobi with a wound to his leg. And as mandalore said above having great endurance doesn't mean your powerful. Maul was able to get up immediately after being by force lightning from a force witch who was trying to kill him so he has a great endurance for pain as well plus he was trained by sidious so he would to have endure pain and torture all throughout his life. And that reminds of Maul actually being able have Sidious almost the rope in a duel prior to the TPM.
at
So remind me how Luke can be Maul who accomplished so much more as of this point.

Originally posted by Darth_noodle
Reported. Iv had it with you cursing, and insulting me on every single thread. May you get a life, and grow a brain, whoops nevermind, im stating the impossible. Well YOU insulted me in the first place telling me to shut the hell up when i'm not typing to you in the first place, so under the law i had EVERY right to attack you and therefore i TOOK the OPPORTUNITY to insult you back when YOU did it in the first place. If you had used your brain and not type to me in the first place, i WOULD NOT have attacked you.

Hell i don't attack people unless i get attcked first, Did i ever attack borbarad? Did i ever attack darth sexy? Did i ever attack lightsnake, advent, gideon and hord for no reasons at all?

Then ask yourself, why did i attack you? Simply because you coaxed me into doing so, simply because your the one who initiated this BS. Oh and now your acting like YOUR the victim reporting me when you started this crap in the first place.

One advice ill give you kid, DON'T EVER insult people when you know our going to give up and walk away at the losing end, and its better that you DONT INSULT and be RUDE in the first place which will COAX people getting into fights.

Oh and darth noodle, i have never seen anybody registering on KMC for the sole purpose of insulting other people, hell you have made under 50 posts and safe to say 95% of your posts consists of insults. Oh and get a life? I DO have a life, but do you? Seeing that you register just to insult people, evident that you told me to shut up for no reason when i was typing to battlehammer and kamhal.


Lastly do you ACTUALLY follow rules? Bumping long dead threads are against the rules and it is only legal when you have something to argue about, when you have a source which you can type out to support your case, but did you? No you did not, You merely bumped a dead thread for no reason at all. Oh how i forgot you ignore rules, and when you lost an arguement which you started in the first place, you decide to run to the boss and report me. Right and the very fact that you bumping 5+ dead threads have annoyed the hell out of me, and you did that after insulting me first.

Right and seeing how you like to proclaim yourself so mature, why didn't you PM me where we could have settled this civily .

Ok? The reason i didn't PM you is because i didn't feel theneed to. I was not the one who initiated this, i merely retaliated so i felt it was you who SHOULD HAVE confronted me with this via PM, But noooooo you wanted to let your ego dictate for you, and the result is you insulted me onwards.

Hell you even insulted me the same time you reported me, thats like going to the cops to file a report about getting robbed and just before doing that you go rob somebody. Hypocrisy .


Now leave me be, i don't want anymore trouble , simple. Don't bother me and i don't bother you.


@Ushgarak

And are you going to do anything about that sock ultra omega?

Get over you nerds and chronic mastrubators, maul is dead!!!!!

So you need to resort insults because me and mandalore proved that Maul>ROTJ Luke. And omg maul is dead!!!! Is that suppose to mean he is weak or something because a padawan got lucky and killed him? How about when you respond next time you have a good argument.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
So you need to resort insults because me and mandalore proved that Maul>ROTJ Luke. And omg maul is dead!!!! Is that suppose to mean he is weak or something because a padawan got lucky and killed him? How about when you respond next time you have a good argument.

Darth Hord, i apologize for insulting you. Christ taught me way better than that and i hope that you will forgive me. now on the subject of padawan's luck. to the skilled padawans luck doesnt work, padawans luck didnt work on dooku, or vader, or anakin when he stormed the temple. so it reflecta a lack of mauls skill.

Apology accepted. And you never got back to me on what puts ROTJ Luke above Maul who has done so much (see my post from last page.) including defeating Anoon Bondara who's lightsaber skills were described as "second to none." Maul is one of greatest and deadliest sith apprentices out there. He killed the entire hierarchy of the black sun which includes a force witch,Anoon's padawan who was able to beat Obiwan is a mock duel could not kill Maul, Maul's training was very harsh which included him defeating battle droids out to kill him and he even held his own against Sidious in a duel,hell he even bit Sidious's on the hand.

Maul wins in this fight, Luke at this point isn't good enough to compete with movie power houses.

Why is this even a fight. Luke didn';t think to use the force to defeat that creature in Jabba's palace(or meybe couldn't). Maul pwns him saber-wise.

we have got to consider that technology like cgi wasnt as advanced back then so lucas made due with what was available. im sure had he waited a decade to do the sequel trilogy that the luke v vader duel wouldve been of an anakin v obi wan quality. so i am judging luke as a whole not by lucas' previous limitations.

Still, it doesn't change the fact that Luke by ESB has had very little training, unlike Maul, who had many years of harsh training under Sidious.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
we have got to consider that technology like cgi wasnt as advanced back then so lucas made due with what was available. im sure had he waited a decade to do the sequel trilogy that the luke v vader duel wouldve been of an anakin v obi wan quality. so i am judging luke as a whole not by lucas' previous limitations.

Im not either in fact Maul's greatest accomplishments are in the books not TPM so please tell me how Luke is better than Maul. I have not seen anything that suggest Luke as of ROTJ is better than Maul.

can you please find me that part where luke got killed by a padawan and not maul please?

Originally posted by Man of Christ
lo siento senor pero estamos hablando sober luke de ROTS y no luke de ESB. Y luke de ROTJ tenia mucha mas experiencia que luke de ESB.

Yes, my mistake. I meant ROTJ Luke, sorry. And Maul still has the edge when talking about experience.

Btw, where did you learn spanish? You're not bad.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
can you please find me that part where luke got killed by a padawan and not maul please?

U keep bringing that but not bringing up the circumstances surrounding Mual's death. In fact your entire argument has been Mual got killed by a padawan,Luke beat vader using the darkside while vader was holding back, and Maul was in one movie. Not very convincing.

I posted many feats of Maul which you have not responded to. So please show me what Luke has done to put him above Maul.

I also posted other feats and he did not respond either.

lol, yes he did indeed. I don't understand how can MOC think ROTJ Luke is superior to Maul. It doesn't even seem possible.

Not unless there are circumstance but in vs threads we have to by the probable outcome which is Maul tooling Luke.

Exactly. And even with circumstances Luke would have an extremely hard time taking down Maul.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
And to add to that he has faced numerous droids from Sidious that have been used for training but quite obviously are not set to stun. And he was able to hold his own for a little bit in a duel with Sidious,hell he even bit him on the hand.

ooo droids, so convincing, im sure some padawans survived the battle at geonosis, and luke was holding back against vader too because he was trying to convert him back to the light, not kill him. but luke could very easily force choke maul, or djem so his blade in half then kill him. we see how maul needed to separate qui-gon and obi wan, because he was gettin his but kicked, which is why in that duel he was BACKING UP THE WHOLE TIME. and killing qui-gon in tpm is no point of credit to maul, because qui was past his prime, thats like beating ben vs beating rots obi wan

Oh right luke can force choke maul when mauls a superior force user as of that time.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Oh right luke can force choke maul when mauls a superior force user as of that time.

What has Maul done with the Force besides throw a piece of debris at a door switch?

Anticipated all the attacks from a jedi master trained by Dooku?
As a side show blocking Obi wans attack as well at the same time.

which is why in that duel he was BACKING UP THE WHOLE TIME.

I'm afraid it seems you have no logical thinking skills. You realize he was in control of the fight the whole time, and the reason he was "backing up" was to continue to keep the footing in his favor by getting an ataru user in a tight space. You might want to learn the facts before making assertions.

and killing qui-gon in tpm is no point of credit to maul, because qui was past his prime, thats like beating ben vs beating rots obi wan

Yeah, Qui Gon was so past his prime that he was considered one of the best Jedi in the order.

WHile we're on the subject though, there is no such thing as a Jedi that is too old to be a good fighter. Dooku, the old guy in his 80's, could kick the crap out of 95% of the Jedi order.

Originally posted by Se7in
What has Maul done with the Force besides throw a piece of debris at a door switch? Didn't he choke a few people in the comics and didn't he choke darth vaders troopers? He obviously as a dark sider should have at the least offensive abilities with the force.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Didn't he choke a few people in the comics and didn't he choke darth vaders troopers? He obviously as a dark sider should have at the least offensive abilities with the force.

Yes, he did choke a few people.

For those who are saying Maul is weak in the Force, remember that he was Sidiouses apprentice, Sidious wouldn't pick someone who is weak in the Force, just the opposite, he only wants the best. He wouldn't pick someone weak, to carry the title of a Sith Lord.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
ooo droids, so convincing, im sure some padawans survived the battle at geonosis, and luke was holding back against vader too because he was trying to convert him back to the light, not kill him. but luke could very easily force choke maul, or djem so his blade in half then kill him. we see how maul needed to separate qui-gon and obi wan, because he was gettin his but kicked, which is why in that duel he was BACKING UP THE WHOLE TIME. and killing qui-gon in tpm is no point of credit to maul, because qui was past his prime, thats like beating ben vs beating rots obi wan

Um when there are many they can be dangerous see as jedi in the clone wars died to them, and kenobi and qui gon could not defeat 2 droidekas (SP) OMG! force choke! Like force choke is an uber move that can kill Maul, And as it was said backing up has nothing to do with it because he was backing up into an area that was worse for ataru. And Maul WAS injured during the duel and Qui-gon was said to be one of the most able duelists in the order. Did you even read my posts from the previous pages? You still have not been able to tell me what makes Luke more powerful than Mual at this point. And Luke was going all out when he injured Vader by using the darkside which as I have said previously will not happen against Maul because he does not use Dun Moch,.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
WHile we're on the subject though, there is no such thing as a Jedi that is too old to be a good fighter. Dooku, the old guy in his 80's, could kick the crap out of 95% of the Jedi order.

And Sidious was like in his 60s and Yoda had to be around the mid 800s by then which is past his prime(physical) too.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Yes, he did choke a few people.

For those who are saying Maul is weak in the Force, remember that he was Sidiouses apprentice, Sidious wouldn't pick someone who is weak in the Force, just the opposite, he only wants the best. He wouldn't pick someone weak, to carry the title of a Sith Lord.

Sidious chose Maul to make him a master swordsman, not a powerful Force user. He simply fit perfectly with his future plans, Sidious knew he would be the ultimate weapon.
Although I agree with you. Sidious would never choose a weak Force user as an apprentice.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
which is why in that duel he was BACKING UP THE WHOLE TIME.

I'm afraid it seems you have no logical thinking skills. You realize he was in control of the fight the whole time, and the reason he was "backing up" was to continue to keep the footing in his favor by getting an ataru user in a tight space. You might want to learn the facts before making assertions.

and killing qui-gon in tpm is no point of credit to maul, because qui was past his prime, thats like beating ben vs beating rots obi wan

Yeah, Qui Gon was so past his prime that he was considered one of the best Jedi in the order.

WHile we're on the subject though, there is no such thing as a Jedi that is too old to be a good fighter. Dooku, the old guy in his 80's, could kick the crap out of 95% of the Jedi order.

your first paragraph is crap because he wouldnt have known about that tight space, its not like siddious gave him a map of that building and said "when you duel them, lure them to this room" he backed up cuz he was getting his a$$ kicked.

your last 2 paragraphs are illogical because there is a such thing as being too old to be a good fighter and going past your prime, (you honestly think that a ANH obi wan could match a ROTS obi wan?)
Dooku, the old guy in his 80's, could kick the crap out of 95% of the Jedi order, but got shat on by a younger more spry jedi who hadnt even achieved masterhood.

First off, maybe Sidious did not give him a map, but Maul knew (as you should) that Ataru users have disadvantages in tight spaces.
Secondly, your logic is extremely faulty:
"He is a master so he wins" , "he is a padawan so he will never defeat a master" , "he is a knight so he won't beat a master"...
Anakin, even as a Jedi Knight, is considered one of the most powerful and talented Jedi ever, one of the very bests of his era. You make it sound like Dooku got owned by an average Jedi Knight.

he got lucky finding that tight space. if he didnt accidently find it as a result of his getting pwned he wouldve died. say he backed up the other way and was out in the city, thier ataro usin selves wouldve slaughtered him. but o well. he did end up getting killed.

Right, was getting so owned that he managed to back off Kenobi, kill Qui-Gon, and waste a big opportunity to kill Kenobi. Yeah, they had the edge at all times.

they did,. he was lucky enough to back up in the direction leading to a closed space.

your first paragraph is crap because he wouldnt have known about that tight space, its not like siddious gave him a map of that building and said "when you duel them, lure them to this room" he backed up cuz he was getting his a$$ kicked.

No, I'm afraid this assessment is 100% false. If you'd notice, Maul was doing fine that whole fight, while qui gon and obi wan were clearly starining and having to give their all. Maul was in control and was luring them, guiding the jedi where he wanted them to be.

your last 2 paragraphs are illogical because there is a such thing as being too old to be a good fighter and going past your prime, (you honestly think that a ANH obi wan could match a ROTS obi wan?)
Dooku, the old guy in his 80's, could kick the crap out of 95% of the Jedi order, but got shat on by a younger more spry jedi who hadnt even achieved masterhood.

Seems to me you're the on posting the illogical paragraph. ANH Obi Wan suffered from a lack of special effects and choreography, if they re did ANH PT style you know he'd be just as nimble as his RotS self. And Dooku was only stopped by the chosen one himself. Anakin wasn't just some random jedi knight, he had the potential to surpass Yoda and Mace Windu by a long shot. Dooku while in his 80's defeated a jedi master councilman without too much difficulty anyway, making that sad argument void.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
your first paragraph is crap because he wouldnt have known about that tight space, its not like siddious gave him a map of that building and said "when you duel them, lure them to this room" he backed up cuz he was getting his a$$ kicked.

No, I'm afraid this assessment is 100% false. If you'd notice, Maul was doing fine that whole fight, while qui gon and obi wan were clearly starining and having to give their all. Maul was in control and was luring them, guiding the jedi where he wanted them to be.

your last 2 paragraphs are illogical because there is a such thing as being too old to be a good fighter and going past your prime, (you honestly think that a ANH obi wan could match a ROTS obi wan?)
Dooku, the old guy in his 80's, could kick the crap out of 95% of the Jedi order, but got shat on by a younger more spry jedi who hadnt even achieved masterhood.

Seems to me you're the on posting the illogical paragraph. ANH Obi Wan suffered from a lack of special effects and choreography, if they re did ANH PT style you know he'd be just as nimble as his RotS self. And Dooku was only stopped by the chosen one himself. Anakin wasn't just some random jedi knight, he had the potential to surpass Yoda and Mace Windu by a long shot. Dooku while in his 80's defeated a jedi master councilman without too much difficulty anyway, making that sad argument void.


youre right they were giving him thier all which is why they pwned him backwards the whole time and why he was backed into a corner.

there is no way he is as nimble as his rots self, if you saw he could barely keep up with an ultra slow vader, and hello, HE"S OLD and human!!! you say anakin had the potential to surpass yoda but none of that matters cuz he never did surpass yoda.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
youre right they were giving him thier all which is why they pwned him backwards the whole time and why he was backed into a corner.

The TPM novel disagrees with your interpretation of the battle and it is canon, your opinion is not.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
The TPM novel disagrees with your interpretation of the battle and it is canon, your opinion is not.

relentlessly searching for an opening in their defense which didnt mater cause he died anyway.

relentlessly searching for an opening in their defense which didnt mater cause he died anyway.

Which doesn't change the fact that he was controlling the fight the whole time, not getting "pwned" or driven back.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
relentlessly searching for an opening in their defense which didnt mater cause he died anyway.

Yet it still proves your theory of Maul being force into a corner wrong. And that Maul was in control until he died. And he DID find an opening obviously since he killed Qui-gon and had out dueled kenobi until Kenobi made the move that surprised Maul. You really need tell me what makes Luke more powerful than Maul,nor have you replied to my posts of Maul experience from the previous page such as Anoon Bondara who's lightsaber skill was described assecond to none could not kill Maul. So please tell Me how Luke>Maul.

This guy just doesn't give up.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
Yet it still proves your theory of Maul being force into a corner wrong. And that Maul was in control until he died. And he DID find an opening obviously since he killed Qui-gon and had out dueled kenobi until Kenobi made the move that surprised Maul. You really need tell me what makes Luke more powerful than Maul,nor have you replied to my posts of Maul experience from the previous page such as Anoon Bondara who's lightsaber skill was described assecond to none could not kill Maul. So please tell Me how Luke>Maul.

everybody says, someone, is "second to none" that doesnt prove anything. its just an expression just like every 2 weeks the new movie out is the "#1 movie in amarica" but that doesnt make it true.

facistcrusader once spoke on special effects and such, well if they existed for rotj, then luke dueling wouldve looked like rots anakin. and we know he would slaughter maul, so would a rotj version of his son.

You still have not answered.
What makes Luke better than Maul? Why don't you tell us? Stop dodging the question.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
everybody says, someone, is "second to none" that doesnt prove anything. its just an expression just like every 2 weeks the new movie out is the "#1 movie in amarica" but that doesnt make it true.

The statement is made in both Cloak of Deception and Darth Maul Shadow Hunter and in addition it also says in cloak of deception
A Twi'lek, with slender head-tails and a heavily muscled upper body, his name was Anoon Bondara, a duelist of unparalleled skill. Qui-Gon engaged him in matches at every opportunity. For a match with Bondara, no matter how brief, was more instructive than twenty contests against lesser opponents.

This was coming from the view of the omniscient narrator not a charcter in the novels so it is canon. And your analogy is flawed since this was stated in two sources that as of this time shortly before TPM Anoon was second to none in lightsaber skills no one else in this period was stated to have the same skill so the quote is VALID AND CANON.

this is circular.
i stated it before

he is more adept in the force.
physically stronger.
better saber style.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
The statement is made in both Cloak of Deception and Darth Maul Shadow Hunter and in addition it also says in cloak of deception
A Twi'lek, with slender head-tails and a heavily muscled upper body, his name was Anoon Bondara, a duelist of unparalleled skill. Qui-Gon engaged him in matches at every opportunity. For a match with Bondara, no matter how brief, was more instructive than twenty contests against lesser opponents.

This was coming from the view of the omniscient narrator not a charcter in the novels so it is canon. And your analogy is flawed since this was stated in two sources that as of this time shortly before TPM Anoon was second to none in lightsaber skills no one else in this period was stated to have the same skill so the quote is VALID AND CANON.

if he were second to none he would still be alive so yeah its just a saying. a descriptor. maybe if you took an english class you would know about literary devices such as metaphors and hyperboles, like the ones being used here.

U talking bout Maul who or Luke? If it is Luke that argument does not come close to what I have posted in this thread since Luke had the physical strength to stand up to vader using the darkside which I previously said numerous times he wont have that type of rage since Maul does not verbally taunt in his duels

You say he was more adept in the Force, physically stronger, and had better saber style. How so? Can you prove it?

Originally posted by Darth Hord
U talking bout Maul who or Luke? If it is Luke that argument does not come close to what I have posted in this thread since Luke had the physical strength to stand up to vader using the darkside which I previously said numerous times he wont have that type of rage since Maul does not verbally taunt in his arguments.

verbal or no, maul still taunts opponents which lead to his death. but back on topic. he was matching vader before he got enraged. remember when he kicked vader down the steps. that wasnt darkside related.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
if he were second to none he would still be alive so yeah its just a saying. a descriptor. maybe if you took an english class you would know about literary devices such as metaphors and hyperboles, like the ones being used here.

I would have assumed you realize that is referring to the jedi order. And for your information he chose to sacrifice his life for your information in an explosion in attempt to kill Maul but it did not exceed.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
I would have assumed you realize that is referring to the jedi order. And for your information he chose to sacrifice his life for your information in an explosion in attempt to kill Maul but it did not exceed.

it is still a literary device. do you even know what that is by the way?

Originally posted by Man of Christ
verbal or no, maul still taunts opponents which lead to his death. but back on topic. he was matching vader before he got enraged. remember when he kicked vader down the steps. that wasnt darkside related.
But it proves Luke wont have the same rage he used to completely overcome Vader and btw in the majority of conflcits that Maul was in he did not "taunt" only in the battles that led to his death. So based on that we have to go the more probable things to happen in a vs thread which Maul not taunting if he did taunt in the majority of his fights than it would be logical to say that he would here but that is not the case.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
it is still a literary device. do you even know what that is by the way?

I do know what is and it speaks highly of his skills since other members of other include Mace Windu and Yoda and it still is a canon statement and regardless of the quotes, Anoon was still one of the best in the order and further supports my argument while your arguments in the the thread so far have been Maul appearing in one movie is suppose to make him weak which if far from true,Luke defeated Vader while using the darkside and he is supposedly stronger than Maul, am I missing anything.

While Maul has done so much more such as taking out the leaders of the black sun including killing a force witch right after being hit by force lightning. Defeated a very skilled saber duelist in Anoon Bondara and his padawan as well who actually defeated a padwan kenobi prior to TPm. He held his own against Sidious for a bit and even when he lost his lightsaber he actually bit Sidious. He killed Qui-gon and out dueled Kenobi all the while having a badly injured leg. So how does Luke compare?

Originally posted by Darth Hord
I do know what is and it speaks highly of his skills since other members of other include Mace Windu and Yoda and it still is a canon statement and regardless of the quotes, Anoon was still one of the best in the order and further supports my argument while your arguments in the the thread so far have been Maul appearing in one movie is suppose to make him weak which if far from true,Luke defeated Vader while using the darkside and he is supposedly stronger than Maul, am I missing anything.

While Maul has done so much more such as taking out the leaders of the black sun including killing a force witch right after being hit by force lightning. Defeated a very skilled saber duelist in Anoon Bondara and his padawan as well who actually defeated a padwan kenobi prior to TPm. He held his own against Sidious for a bit and even when he lost his lightsaber he actually bit Sidious. He killed Qui-gon and out dueled Kenobi all the while having a badly injured leg. So how does Luke compare?

lets see, used the force to destroy the death star with minimal training. defeated vader without too much triaining. survived a series of force shocks by siddious which would have killed a normal senitent and even a normal jedi. went toe to to toe with vader, even kicking him down the steps and controlling the whole duel while still trying to convert him to the light. kicking vader down the steps took an incredible amount of force considering the wight of vaders metal limbs and life support. and after all that still had the energy to drag his dad away. need i go on?

Originally posted by Man of Christ
lets see, used the force to destroy the death star with minimal training. ?
Not a combat feat so it is irrelevant


Vader was holding back since he wanted to use his son to kill Sidious and Luke was using the darkside. Which he wont have luxury of against Maul.

He was torturing Luke and never had a chance to unleash his full "unlimited power" since Vader betrayed him.


That is the only thing so far that he did was get a single hit on Vader and vader was trying to convert him to the darkside so there is circumstances around it too. You do need to go on because Luke has not beaten Vader without the darkside and he still does not have the experience,training and has not done no where as much as Maul in combat. So is that it?

Originally posted by Darth Hord
Not a combat feat so it is irrelevant


Vader was holding back since he wanted to use his son to kill Sidious and Luke was using the darkside. Which he wont have luxury of against Maul.

He was torturing Luke and never had a chance to unleash his full "unlimited power" since Vader betrayed him.


That is the only thing so far that he did was get a single hit on Vader and vader was trying to convert him to the darkside so there is circumstances around it too. You do need to go on because Luke has not beaten Vader without the darkside and he still does not have the experience,training and has not done no where as much as Maul in combat. So is that it?


combat feat or no, it shows a vast adeptness in the force a level in which maul doesnt demonstrate.

luke was holding back too because he wanted to convert vader to the light "i will not fight you father"

he still got up prettty quick from that torture cuz he has a vast amount of enduerance theough the force.

he did so much with so little time to train. he was even using force telepathy on bespin to contact leah, c'mon thats pretty friggin awesome for a padawan. do we see maul do that. noooooo
effortless force chock of two sentients at the same time. when vader has to concentrate hard to do just one.
he read vader's mind in that last duel "your thoughts betray you"
if he is psychich that could help him predict maul's strategy.
and by the way maul's speciality is in blade combat not the force. so luke could overwhelm him with the force.
furthermore on the blade luke is a force to be reckonded with too. so maul deuling a rotj luke is like maul deuling a rots anakin. slaugher

Originally posted by Man of Christ
combat feat or no, it shows a vast adeptness in the force a level in which maul doesnt demonstrate.

It is impressive but irrelevant in the end.


And vader was too so it puts more debate/circumstances around the duel. And Vader still was beating him despite the fact that neither was trying to kill the other. (Luke was in hiding at this point too)


And Maul got up immediately from a fore lightning attack that was designed to kill him and struck the fore witch down. I know her skill is not equal to sidious but she was trying to kill maul,sids. was torturing and Maul got a up faster. Maul killed and outdueled Kenobi with a badly injured leg and he has endured years upon years of training/torture from sidioous which is not easy so I would give the endurance to Maul.



So he communicated with Leia is not a combat related skill so whoopdie f-in do. Proof that Vader had to concentrate? where is it stated and vader has choked people out from miles away on different space ships.


vader's mind was conflicted making it easier to read and Maul has the mind set of assassin and all he thinks about is killing/serving his master and as I stated above Maul has great endurance against the force (force lightning>Luke's choke) Like ROTS Anakin, not yet. ROTS Anakin merely had to "decide" to win and he did Luke is not even close to that yet. Luke is good with saber but beating vader while using the darkside and who is still not trying to kill Luke is no where near as impressive to who Maul has killed/defeated. (see my above posts again)

And even if Luke could win it would be FAR from a slaughter. ROTJ Luke is FAR from ROTS Anakin.

And to add to my last point. Luke has shown NO battle precognition skills to predict attacks and I doubt he would he would use force choke on Maul because he only used it once on 2 weak guards. And Luke has never used any offensive force techniques such as force choke in an actual in a duel,to suggest he would otherwise at this point is a ridiculous claim. Given by how Luke activates his lightsaber instead of trying to use the force (and have a force fight)when he sees an enemy (Vader) now why would he try something different here? It is illogical to say that he suddenly changes his preference to the force. I doubt that. And you yourself said that Maul's specialty is lightsaber combat there is NO way given on what I posted about Maul's combat experience vs luke's that luke would win.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
And to add to my last point. Luke has shown NO battle precognition skills to predict attacks and I doubt he would he would use force choke on Maul because he only used it once on 2 weak guards. And Luke has never used any offensive force techniques such as force choke in an actual in a duel,to suggest he would otherwise at this point is a ridiculous claim. Given by how Luke activates his lightsaber instead of trying to use the force (and have a force fight)when he sees an enemy (Vader) now why would he try something different here? It is illogical to say that he suddenly changes his preference to the force. I doubt that. And you yourself said that Maul's specialty is lightsaber combat there is NO way given on what I posted about Maul's combat experience vs luke's that luke would win.

wow if im dueling some stranger, im really going to use the same techniques than if im dueling my father, whom im trying to redeem

Originally posted by Man of Christ
wow if im dueling some stranger, im really going to use the same techniques than if im dueling my father, whom im trying to redeem

He could have used when he was using the darkside or how about use some other force powers such as push or something against Jabas thugs and push them into the sarlaac pit. And just because he is not trying to kill him doesn't mean he could use other force attacks in a duel(if he knew any offensive ones) Vader used the force against him in ESB. Furthermore in any combat situation he seems to pull his lightsaber our first instead of using the force. And once a lightsaber duel starts it is hard to get enough distance to use the force offensively or hard at any distance. You yourself stated that Maul is better than in lightsaber combat so Luke will be doomed because you have not shown enough to say that Luke is above Maul in combat.

And Luke still has not shown any precognition skill to predict attacks. Luke has shown nothing combat wise to suggest he is better than Maul. His greatest combat feat is his victory over vader when using the dark side (vader still is not trying to kill him) and I already stated many times Luke wont have that ferocity against Maul. I have shown that is greatest combat feat had circumstances around it which without it has shown almost nothing in combat against other jedi/sith and that he has nothing on Maul in combat. So please tell why you still think Luke is above Maul.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
He could have used when he was using the darkside or how about use some other force powers such as push or something against Jabas thugs and push them into the sarlaac pit. And just because he is not trying to kill him doesn't mean he could use other force attacks in a duel(if he knew any offensive ones) Vader used the force against him in ESB. Furthermore in any combat situation he seems to pull his lightsaber our first instead of using the force. And once a lightsaber duel starts it is hard to get enough distance to use the force offensively or hard at any distance. You yourself stated that Maul is better than in lightsaber combat so Luke will be doomed because you have not shown enough to say that Luke is above Maul in combat.

And Luke still has not shown any precognition skill to predict attacks. Luke has shown nothing combat wise to suggest he is better than Maul. His greatest combat feat is his victory over vader when using the dark side (vader still is not trying to kill him) and I already stated many times Luke wont have that ferocity against Maul. I have shown that is greatest combat feat had circumstances around it which without it has shown almost nothing in combat against other jedi/sith and that he has nothing on Maul in combat. So please tell why you still think Luke is above Maul.

your first paragraph is disproven because while in saberlock with grevious, kenobi force pushed him into the sealing.
i said maul specializes in combat as opposed to the force, but even this specialization is no match for rotj luke's brute strength.
now to the second paragraph.
he does have some precognition which is why he knew vader was waiting for him, and where to find him. and yes vader in the end was trying tokill him. "if you will not be turned then you will meet your destiny" then used saber throw which is one of the most deadly saber techniques, and hey. it didnt work on luke. luke won a saber lock against vader who's metal limbs exponentialized his strength. whereas maul lost a saber lock to padawan obiwan. so luke is stronger. luke wins.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
your first paragraph is disproven because while in saberlock with grevious, kenobi force pushed him into the sealing.
i said maul specializes in combat as opposed to the force, but even this specialization is no match for rotj luke's brute strength.


For the record I said:



I said it is hard to use the force once a lightsaber duel starts not impossible. And Luke still could have used the force on Vader even when he was not trying to kill Vader,who did use the force against Luke in ESB. Luke has not shown any offensive force powers in combat situation to say he starts now is a little far fetched and Maul has shown a high degree of force resistance as he was able to immediately continue his fight against the force witch and kill her right afterwards like it didn't even phase him.





No evidence of battle precognition and he sensed Vader's presence which is not impossible to believe since he felt Vader's presence when he was on the Executor and Luke was on the shuttle. And sensing him is NOT precognition. And Vader's statement is an ultimatum (he is telling the truth) but there is no indication that he was trying to kill him because he still was taunting to turn when Luke was in hiding. And for the billionth time Luke showed the great strength to over power vader only when he was using the darkside.Which I have said many times that he will not have that ferocity against Maul. And Padawan kenobi beat Maul in a saberlock when he was using the darkside and Maul still out dueled him . And the strongest do not always win to even suggest that just because he may be stronger (especially with the darkside which he does not have) does not guarantee a victory, to say that strongest always wins in absurd statement. Maul still has speed,endurance(I have shown that is better than Luke's). I'd say that Anankin and Grievous are physically stronger than ROTS kenobi and look what happened to them. Maul has shown a lot more in combat than Luke has and Luke's greatest accomplishment of beating Vader occurred when using the darkside which he will not have against Maul.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
For the record I said:



I said it is hard to use the force once a lightsaber duel starts not impossible. And Luke still could have used the force on Vader even when he was not trying to kill Vader,who did use the force against Luke in ESB. Luke has not shown any offensive force powers in combat situation to say he starts now is a little far fetched and Maul has shown a high degree of force resistance as he was able to immediately continue his fight against the force witch and kill her right afterwards like it didn't even phase him.





No evidence of battle precognition and he sensed Vader's presence which is not impossible to believe since he felt Vader's presence when he was on the Executor and Luke was on the shuttle. And sensing him is NOT precognition. And Vader's statement is an ultimatum (he is telling the truth) but there is no indication that he was trying to kill him because he still was taunting to turn when Luke was in hiding. And for the billionth time Luke showed the great strength to over power vader only when he was using the darkside.Which I have said many times that he will not have that ferocity against Maul. And Padawan kenobi beat Maul in a saberlock when he was using the darkside and Maul still out dueled him . And the strongest do not always win to even suggest that just because he may be stronger (especially with the darkside which he does not have) does not guarantee a victory, to say that strongest always wins in absurd statement. Maul still has speed,endurance(I have shown that is better than Luke's). I'd say that Anankin and Grievous are physically stronger than ROTS kenobi and look what happened to them. Maul has shown a lot more in combat than Luke has and Luke's greatest accomplishment of beating Vader occurred when using the darkside which he will not have against Maul.


to remind you. were talking about ROTJ luke not ESB luke
luke didnt use the force cuz it coulve killed vader
"i will not fight you father" (but hey he still won)
i was talking about how he overcame vader while using the liught which he did and that strength enough would overcome maul
besides, luke is just as short tempered as his father so he could get in the zone and pull a rots anakin on maul
and maul didnt out duel kenobi which is why he used force push
vader did try to kill luke with a saber throw which you didnt refute
luke pwns maul. if maul were so great then that old master past his prime and that young padawan woulve been no match for him. but hey. maul is dead so lets move on.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
to remind you. were talking about ROTJ luke not ESB luke
luke didnt use the force cuz it coulve killed vader
"i will not fight you father" (but hey he still won)

I know it is rotj all I said that was in the duel vs ESB LUke Vader used the force and he was not trying to kill Luke. I highly doubt that Luke would be able to kill Vader with the force.


That kick barely phased Vader and if anything Maul has a great advantage in using his body in fact in the comic in which Vader fights Maul,Maul actually hits him in the face. Maul is by far the superior "unarmed"(if you would call it that) fighter.




There is ZERO proof that Luke can go in the zone like Anakin as described in the rots novel) did so you would need to show some proof.



First all he was quite clearly out dueling a darkside kenobi and especially using the martial arts with kicks. I did refute it because if Vader was trying to kill Luke he could have easily used the force since he is greater than Luke there plus he just calmly walks down the ramp after throwing his saber.



lmao there is NO pwnage here. Maul was INJURED before the duel started and he killed Qui-gon who is one of the most able duelist in the order and had kenobi beat even when he was using the darkside.
You keep saying "Maul died" well guess what Dooku died as did the emepror so and were they weak? No. And the emperor died in a very pathetic way yet he is the most powerful sith. And did you miss all I have posted on Maul's skill? Which outclasses Luke's. Maul made Anoon Bondara quite easily one of the greatest if not the greatest duelist prior to TPM.(as said in cloak of deception and shadow hunter) and most likely the battle master of the jedi order of 10,000 realize he could not defeat Maul. That speaks volumes for Maul' skills while Luke's greatest combat achievement is tainted.

Luke(Post DE) evens admits that Vader could have killed him if vader tried in book called "The courtship of Princess Leia."





Luke realized that Vader was not trying to kill him (this was stated before this a little earlier in the book that Vader sought to turn him in his conlficts with Luke) If Vader had tried to kill Luke he would have died.

And in the comic(which is canon) that Vader faced Maul. They were evenly matched as Vader was trying to kill Maul as the fight was to see who the true sith apprentice. While Vader eventually won He suffered massive injuries and this when he was going all out against Maul.

Maul beats Luke with moderate to a little more difficulty.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
I know it is rotj all I said that was in the duel vs ESB LUke Vader used the force and he was not trying to kill Luke. I highly doubt that Luke would be able to kill Vader with the force.


That kick barely phased Vader and if anything Maul has a great advantage in using his body in fact in the comic in which Vader fights Maul,Maul actually hits him in the face. Maul is by far the superior "unarmed"(if you would call it that) fighter.




There is ZERO proof that Luke can go in the zone like Anakin as described in the rots novel) did so you would need to show some proof.



First all he was quite clearly out dueling a darkside kenobi and especially using the martial arts with kicks. I did refute it because if Vader was trying to kill Luke he could have easily used the force since he is greater than Luke there plus he just calmly walks down the ramp after throwing his saber.



lmao there is NO pwnage here. Maul was INJURED before the duel started and he killed Qui-gon who is one of the most able duelist in the order and had kenobi beat even when he was using the darkside.
You keep saying "Maul died" well guess what Dooku died as did the emepror so and were they weak? No. And the emperor died in a very pathetic way yet he is the most powerful sith. And did you miss all I have posted on Maul's skill? Which outclasses Luke's. Maul made Anoon Bondara quite easily one of the greatest if not the greatest duelist prior to TPM.(as said in cloak of deception and shadow hunter) and most likely the battle master of the jedi order of 10,000 realize he could not defeat Maul. That speaks volumes for Maul' skills while Luke's greatest combat achievement is tainted.

that counts for nothing you see, quigonn was a shadow of his former self at the time, and MAUL DIDNT BEAT OBI WAN, thats why he died.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
that counts for nothing you see, quigonn was a shadow of his former self at the time, and MAUL DIDNT BEAT OBI WAN, thats why he died.

Qui-gon still had years of experience and technique that while he may not be able to keep up as long but still is very deadly. And I know Maul didn't kill him but he beat him and the duel did stop with Maul looking at Kenobi and the kenobi did a move that surprised Maul And the fact that duel played out the way it did with Maul controlling most of the duel until kenobi used the dark side and it began more close with a very badly injured leg and he still managed to seperate them and perform those incredible acrobatic maneuvers speaks a lot for his endurance.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
Qui-gon still had years of experience and technique that while he may not be able to keep up as long but still is very deadly. And I know Maul didn't kill him but he beat him and the duel did stop with Maul looking at Kenobi and the kenobi did a move that surprised Maul And the fact that duel played out the way it did with Maul controlling most of the duel until kenobi used the dark side and it began more close with a very badly injured leg and he still managed to seperate them and perform those incredible acrobatic maneuvers speaks a lot for his endurance.

Originally posted by Se7in
Beating the crap out of them both? I disagree, he was winning, but not by any huge margin. He managed to knock Obi-Wan down and separate them for the majority of the fight, and was backhanded and knocked on his ass by Qui-Gon and again with a kick to the chest by Obi. Just because Maul used fancy acrobatics doesn't mean he was winning the entire duel.

The duel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eTWnbSDJYw

Obi-Wan managed to overpower Maul at 3:48, again at 3:58, chop his saber in half at the 4:00 mark and subsequently knock him on his ass. The only time Obi-Wan does get knocked back at the fight, is at 4:07, in which he completely recovers instantly. Only 4:21 does Maul take the advantage, and only because there was a hole behind him. Other than that, Obi seems to have the entire fight within his grasp.

And a very badly injured leg? He hurt his ankle, not his leg. And it couldn't have been that serious because he managed to run up the side of a cliff vertically to escape them.

Originally posted by Se7in
And a very badly injured leg? He hurt his ankle, not his leg. And it couldn't have been that serious because he managed to run up the side of a cliff vertically to escape them.

The novel makes it clear that Maul was in control.(Qui-gon recognized this) And in regards to his injury he says he forced himself to run at normal speed and strength meaning he couldn't be around 100% (I'd personally say about 80-85)

Edt: The wound was in his thigh and he felt it tearing when he scaled the wall. And it seems it was bad enough for him not to report it to Sidious so it must have been more than a cut or a limp.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
Qui-gon still had years of experience and technique that while he may not be able to keep up as long but still is very deadly. And I know Maul didn't kill him but he beat him and the duel did stop with Maul looking at Kenobi and the kenobi did a move that surprised Maul And the fact that duel played out the way it did with Maul controlling most of the duel until kenobi used the dark side and it began more close with a very badly injured leg and he still managed to seperate them and perform those incredible acrobatic maneuvers speaks a lot for his endurance.

but qui-gon was still past his prime. if you saw in thier 1st duel on tatooine qui-gon was sweating profusely after only a short duel with maul. and ill bet durring thier second duel. poor old maul really enjoyed hiding behind that ray shield.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
but qui-gon was still past his prime. if you saw in thier 1st duel on tatooine qui-gon was sweating profusely after only a short duel with maul. and ill bet durring thier second duel. poor old maul really enjoyed hiding behind that ray shield.

I admit he was past him prime but if you have the technique down pat (he was still called one of the most able jedi in the order but that besides the point) you can use that to lower the cap in age and physicality and Maul had the injured thigh too. And btw do you now admit based on my previous post that VAder could kill Luke if Vader tried as Luke himself said? There is pwngae here for either of them but Maul would still win a fair amount of difficulty.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
The novel makes it clear that Maul was in control.(Qui-gon recognized this) And in regards to his injury he says he forced himself to run at normal speed and strength meaning he couldn't be around 100% (I'd personally say about 80-85)

Edt: The wound was in his thigh and he felt it tearing when he scaled the wall. And it seems it was bad enough for him not to report it to Sidious so it must have been more than a cut or a limp.

I'd imagine Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon were both actually limited fighting him at the same time. Especially given that they used a very mobile and physical form of fighting involving acrobatics such as turns and flips, Obi-Wan fared much better when he was alone than when he was with Qui-Gon.

Originally posted by Se7in
I'd imagine Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon were both actually limited fighting him at the same time. Especially given that they used a very mobile and physical form of fighting involving acrobatics such as turns and flips, Obi-Wan fared much better when he was alone than when he was with Qui-Gon.

There best shot at fighting at the same time (that would have the best results) was in the begining when they had more room in the hanger otherwise Maul did though kind of lead them to an area where there 2 vs 1 advantage was limited. And Kenobi did fight better alone yet Maul still beat him when used the darkside.(kenobi since calmed down while hanging)

Why is this still going on?

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Why is this still going on?

IDK honestly, while Luke is good he simply he is not better than Maul(or Vader) at this point put he can put a good fight.

Not really. Maul should take him easily, Luke has some skill but when he goes berserk it's "baseball bat form".

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Not really. Maul should take him easily, Luke has some skill but when he goes berserk it's "baseball bat form".

well im sure if the sequel trilogy had nick gilliard it'd be a diffrent story

Originally posted by Darth Hord
There best shot at fighting at the same time (that would have the best results) was in the begining when they had more room in the hanger otherwise Maul did though kind of lead them to an area where there 2 vs 1 advantage was limited. And Kenobi did fight better alone yet Maul still beat him when used the darkside.(kenobi since calmed down while hanging)

maul didnt beat him,. if that hole wasnt there it'd been mauls behind. he got lucky with the geography.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
well im sure if the sequel trilogy had nick gilliard it'd be a diffrent story Yes and I also believe that Vader and Ben would have been faster.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
maul didnt beat him,. if that hole wasnt there it'd been mauls behind. he got lucky with the geography. No, Maul would have won. Rewatch the fight, when Maul force pushed Kenobi he dropped his saber. Maul would have capitalized and killed him.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
maul didnt beat him,. if that hole wasnt there it'd been mauls behind. he got lucky with the geography.
First of all it is called using your surroundings to your advantage and there is nothing wrong with that. Sidious used vs Yoda,Dooku used it,Vader did. The best fighters know how to use the playing field to their advantage. And Maul was holding off Kenobi still even when Kenobi had him on the ground Maul countered. There is no "luck" here.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
First of all it is called using your surroundings to your advantage and there is nothing wrong with that. Sidious used vs Yoda,Dooku used it,Vader did. The best fighters know how to use the playing field to their advantage. And Maul was holding off Kenobi still even when Kenobi had him on the ground Maul countered. There is no "luck" here.


Maul was holding him off, but he was losing on even ground. Maul won because of the terrain. Yes it speaks to his resourcefulness, but on even ground Kenobi would have won.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
First of all it is called using your surroundings to your advantage and there is nothing wrong with that. Sidious used vs Yoda,Dooku used it,Vader did. The best fighters know how to use the playing field to their advantage. And Maul was holding off Kenobi still even when Kenobi had him on the ground Maul countered. There is no "luck" here.

Originally posted by Se7in
Maul was holding him off, but he was losing on even ground. Maul won because of the terrain. Yes it speaks to his resourcefulness, but on even ground Kenobi would have won. See my post above.

Originally posted by Se7in
Maul was holding him off, but he was losing on even ground. Maul won because of the terrain. Yes it speaks to his resourcefulness, but on even ground Kenobi would have won.

The only time that Kenobi had the edge was when he cut the saber in two and pushed Maul to the ground the Maul blocked kenobi's next attack and then regrouped to get himself ready to continue. And the duel is fairly even with Maul landing a kick to the face and other that it was even. But when Maul pushed Kenobi he loses his saber in midair then he hits the floor and then bounces off the floor again(his head and neck area) and into the put and manages to grab hold of the pipe.

Maul won plain and simple, whether there was a pit or not.

curbstomp in the favor of luke

Originally posted by darthyoda23
curbstomp in the favor of luke

How any reasons why someone with very little training who's been a jedi for a few years is gonna beat one of the deadliest sith apprentices in history who was able to beat two skilled swordsmen Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon and the same time while injured, bested a jedi who was said to have lightsaber skills second to none, could tank force lighting and mastered the lightsaber form Juyo.

The only chance Luke has of winning is if maul threatens to turn Leia over to the darkside and considering the fact Maul rarely taunts his opponents I have to give this to Maul 8/10

Originally posted by darthyoda23
curbstomp in the favor of luke

To quote myself
Originally posted by Elite Hunter

Maul Wins

He is called "one of the deadliest Sith apprentices in history,"in the Complete Visual Dictionary

He was trained by Sidious in both the sith and jedi arts.(dark Side source book)

He defeated Anoon Bondara who had had lightsaber skills(technical skill) second to none prior to TPM. (yes I had to mention it)

Maul survived on a planet by himself for a month all the while being attacked by"hordes of deadly assassin droids" then on the same planet (after he was exhausted,hungry, and wounded) he dueled Darth Sidious and gave him a run for his money.

In shadow hunter he is described to move as a "blur"

Anoon's apprentice Darsha Assant tried to commit a suicidal explosion that would killer her and Maul because she couldn't kill him.

He outdueled the nightsister Mighella who was the personal body guard of Alexi Garyn,the leader of the blacksun,then he was able to resist her force lightning and cut her in two still being hit by the force lightning.

He infiltrated the Black Sun and killed its leader Alexi Graryn, his body guard the Mighella and all of the Vigos and their body guards.

He outdueled Obiwan and killed Qui-gon who is described in the TPM novel "one of the most able swordsmen in the Jedi order" and he wasn't even at a 100%.

Two different sources say that while it may have looked like TPM(DS) Obiwan was beating Maul it was in fact the opposite Obiwan caught him by surprise but as they continued their 1v1 duel, Maul was getting stronger and Obiwan was getting weaker. Neither source contradicts the movie because they are describing what we can't see with out eyes which is the character's thoughts and how they physically feel.

As a practitioner of Juyo Maul is thus a "high level master of multiple forms"



Now how about you read the thread because you would know that Luke has no chance of winning, the only reason he beat Vader was because he was using the darkside, and Vader wasn't trying to kill him. I also provided a quote in this thread that said Luke admitted that Vader could have killed him if he wanted to on the death star II.