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Was it simply his own over confidence that led to Palpatine's destruction? Palpatine, who orchestrated a show in the republic in order for him to gain power, as well as have the most powerful apprentice protect him. Not only a fooled apprentice, but a weakened republic led to believe they needed a new regime to preserve the ideals of a controlled republic. If One who can accomplish so much, be lead to believe that his very own apprentice still had part of his original identity, not fully consumed by darkness, but be undetectable by Palpatine. How did he lose?

He underestimated Anakin's resolve to save Luke. If he just would've killed Luke instantly, there wouldn't have been a second thought in Vader's head.

He never thought of Vader rebelling. He was overconfident in his powers.

I think that Palpatine in ROTJ was in not as good shape as in PT, when he was in his prime, plotting takeover and Jedi destruction. His megalomany and corruption took the better of him, he couldn`t imagine Luke and Rebellion being a threat that could challenge him.

He was pretty impressive in ESB. For me that was Vader (!) in his prime.

he figured Luke would cave and turn to the dark side, but he was wrong. he got pwnt.

Yup...again.... first by Ob1, now by Luke.

explain the Obi Wan part.

OB1 PWND Anakin on Mustafar: he chopped three limbs off in one blow...

I was referring to palpy, not annie.

Ah... sry.

tis ok, the rest of us got it.

Good.

I am surprised you missed it.

Who said I missed it?

Who missed what?

G. His brain.

Roger. Roger.

Palpatine lost for several reasons:
1. Overconfidance. The Emperor believed in he visions he had that Luke would bow before him.
2. Trust in Vader. He believed Vader wouldnt let emotion (Eg love) take hold. He also believed Vaders word that Skywalker would turn.
3. The will of the Force.
4. Old age (Darksiders age more rapidly than lightsiders)
5. Underestimating the Rebels odds against the Death Star and battle fleet. Proving again how effective one-man fighters were in the right hands.
6. Lukes abilities to resist the Darkside. Love for his sister, father, friends and life. Hatred towards the Emperor but realises before he kills his father.
7. Love. The love Vader held for his son for standing up to the Emperor. Love is what drives the light side but is a hard emotion to achieve. Vader achieved it by being proud of Luke for resisting.

Thats the shortened and sweetened version.

Originally posted by Jedireaper
Palpatine lost for several reasons:
1. Overconfidance. The Emperor believed in he visions he had that Luke would bow before him.
2. Trust in Vader. He believed Vader wouldnt let emotion (Eg love) take hold. He also believed Vaders word that Skywalker would turn.
3. The will of the Force.
4. Old age (Darksiders age more rapidly than lightsiders)
5. Underestimating the Rebels odds against the Death Star and battle fleet. Proving again how effective one-man fighters were in the right hands.
6. Lukes abilities to resist the Darkside. Love for his sister, father, friends and life. Hatred towards the Emperor but realises before he kills his father.
7. Love. The love Vader held for his son for standing up to the Emperor. Love is what drives the light side but is a hard emotion to achieve. Vader achieved it by being proud of Luke for resisting.

Thats the shortened and sweetened version.

1. Well thats the obvious. Palpatine would be very confident
2. His full trust in Vader? He believed Vader was fully consumed by the Darkside, and there was no longer any good in him...But it turned out, there was....
3. The darkside of the force. The good side of the force has it's powers too
4. wisdom comes with old age, but the overconfidence trait may be in some sort of a conflict with his darkside belief. I dont think cockyness can be beneficial even with the darkside
5. A single death star blown up didn't destroy the empire, nor would it if it was destroyed at the end of ROTJ, without Palpatine being destroyed as well.
6. Had nothing to do with ability. It was his faith in his father.
7. Vader found himself at the time, a redemption. saving his son led him back to the good side.

Luke felt the anger in Vader when he fought him in the ESB, experiencing the darkside as Vader fought Luke, Luke felt the anger, but he also felt somthing other than hate. Looking back, Luke viewed it as heart to let him live (Not to rule the empire as father and son). Vader was not stupid observing his son as he felt him. I'm sure Luke felt a learned resistance to the darkside from Yoda,. Vader knew this, and could have killed Luke, but decided not to, even though he had doubt that Luke wouldn't turn.

Wow... a real debate. Where did that come from?

1. Well thats the obvious. Palpatine would be very confident
.....mmm?
2. His full trust in Vader? He believed Vader was fully consumed by the Darkside, and there was no longer any good in him...But it turned out, there was....
2. The Emperor was aware of the good in Vader. He could sense it. He also knew from TESB Vaders bumble up!
3. The darkside of the force. The good side of the force has it's powers too
3. Both the Dark and lightsides are one. Its the users point of view and feelings that define the powers. It was also the will of the force that Luke survives.
4. wisdom comes with old age, but the overconfidence trait may be in some sort of a conflict with his darkside belief. I dont think cockyness can be beneficial even with the darkside
Old age is just the lessering of Palpatines agility. The overconfidance would be natural to someone who was used to control and power.
5. A single death star blown up didn't destroy the empire, nor would it if it was destroyed at the end of ROTJ, without Palpatine being destroyed as well.
I didnt say the destruction of the Death Star destroyed the Empire. In fact consider this: When Palpatine was killed by Vader, the Imperial forces were thrown into utter chaos losing Palpatines force control over the fleet what caused them to retreat even though they were still a neumeric superior force: I also blame poor clone training.
6. Had nothing to do with ability. It was his faith in his father.
Thats wat I said though. It was the love for Anakin, Han, Leia, all his friends that allowed him to realised his mistake before he killed Vader.
7. Vader found himself at the time, a redemption. saving his son led him back to the good side. Luke felt the anger in Vader when he fought him in the ESB, experiencing the darkside as Vader fought Luke, Luke felt the anger, but he also felt somthing other than hate. Looking back, Luke viewed it as heart to let him live (Not to rule the empire as father and son). Vader was not stupid observing his son as he felt him. I'm sure Luke felt a learned resistance to the darkside from Yoda,. Vader knew this, and could have killed Luke, but decided not to, even though he had doubt that Luke wouldn't turn. But thats what I said! "The love he had" aquired "for his son."

Originally posted by Jedireaper
1. Well thats the obvious. Palpatine would be very confident
.....mmm?
2. His full trust in Vader? He believed Vader was fully consumed by the Darkside, and there was no longer any good in him...But it turned out, there was....
2. The Emperor was aware of the good in Vader. He could sense it. He also knew from TESB Vaders bumble up!
3. The darkside of the force. The good side of the force has it's powers too
3. Both the Dark and lightsides are one. Its the users point of view and feelings that define the powers. It was also the will of the force that Luke survives.
4. wisdom comes with old age, but the overconfidence trait may be in some sort of a conflict with his darkside belief. I dont think cockyness can be beneficial even with the darkside
Old age is just the lessering of Palpatines agility. The overconfidance would be natural to someone who was used to control and power.
5. A single death star blown up didn't destroy the empire, nor would it if it was destroyed at the end of ROTJ, without Palpatine being destroyed as well.
I didnt say the destruction of the Death Star destroyed the Empire. In fact consider this: When Palpatine was killed by Vader, the Imperial forces were thrown into utter chaos losing Palpatines force control over the fleet what caused them to retreat even though they were still a neumeric superior force: I also blame poor clone training.
6. Had nothing to do with ability. It was his faith in his father.
Thats wat I said though. It was the love for Anakin, Han, Leia, all his friends that allowed him to realised his mistake before he killed Vader.
7. Vader found himself at the time, a redemption. saving his son led him back to the good side. Luke felt the anger in Vader when he fought him in the ESB, experiencing the darkside as Vader fought Luke, Luke felt the anger, but he also felt somthing other than hate. Looking back, Luke viewed it as heart to let him live (Not to rule the empire as father and son). Vader was not stupid observing his son as he felt him. I'm sure Luke felt a learned resistance to the darkside from Yoda,. Vader knew this, and could have killed Luke, but decided not to, even though he had doubt that Luke wouldn't turn. But thats what I said! "The love he had" aquired "for his son."

2) Lies, nowhere does it say that in the movie.

4) And controlled the entire galaxy for over two decades, I would be rather over-confident and cocky as well.

5) We don't know he had control over the battle, or the troops using the force, that would be EU from books, and books aren't allowed are they queeq?

7) Dumb and annoying son, kill him off.

I was only drawing from Zahn's book as reference to it and the event. Also, George Lucas, said so to all his fans, if its him, on supershadow.com archives.

Oh, I don`t think that this supershadow.com site is reliable, Jedireaper.

Novelisations of the films are canon.

ok

Originally posted by queeq
Novelisations of the films are canon.



Make up your mind!!

Supershadow is not reliable.

It's always been canon. No mind to be made up on that one.

Except when you say we can't use books.

EU books... Novelisations of the films are canon.

Well, here's my knowledge. Vader remembered when Sid let him kill Dooku, basically so Sid could have a stronger underling. Vader fears that Luke is about to replace him in the same way. So he up and throws Sid down the shaft, hoping that he will become the big dog. When he is severely injured by Sid, he knows he ain't gonna make it anyway, so he acts all sweet and nice to Luke just so Luke can at least think that his old man wasn't so bad after all, even though it is just a bunch of B.S.

Hehehe... good thoughts... I like it.

How did the emporer lose...?

By having f***wits for staff- the ones who didn't shoot the escape pod in ANH...!

Then Luke wouldn't have become a jedi and got to the postion of having Vader turn on Palps, killing him.

Yeah.... ban all f***wits.

Originally posted by K-Dog
Well, here's my knowledge. Vader remembered when Sid let him kill Dooku, basically so Sid could have a stronger underling. Vader fears that Luke is about to replace him in the same way. So he up and throws Sid down the shaft, hoping that he will become the big dog. When he is severely injured by Sid, he knows he ain't gonna make it anyway, so he acts all sweet and nice to Luke just so Luke can at least think that his old man wasn't so bad after all, even though it is just a bunch of B.S.

Actually no, its simply just that darkside way. Dooku was beaten, meaning his was a weaker one. Sidious wants a strong apprentice. Palpatine knew that Anakin could be the strongest and most powerful as he said this to Yoda at the Sidous vs Yoda dual in EP III. Anakin losing to Obiwan was a unexpected and lucky coincidence that Anakin was no longer able to defeat sidous and become emperor after his body went to Sh&t.

Lucasfilm has said on many occasions the owner of that site has never met Lucas, has no affiliation with Lucasfilm, and Lucalsfilm has tried to sue him many times.

If that's proof enough he's full of crap there's also the factsthat:

- He said he was the guy fighting Vader in the hologram during episode III, and that his film name was Nebar Foxis. The name of the character in actuality is Cin Drallig.

- He said Sidious had an apprentice named Darth Rage between Maul and Dooku, we know that's not true.

- The pictures he posts of his "girlfriend" have all been traced to a website of model photos.

SS is an asset to SW lore, who else could we make fun of and ridicule?

Point taken. Ban SS from myspace i say.

Who0 has that kind of power?

Tom

Tom?

Moderator on myspace.

I put up a post on this thread, where has it gone?

Go look for it.

It shouldn't take too long, only 3 pages.

Did you find it?

welll i think it is obvious the reason the emperor lost.. isnt it true that sith allways end up fighting each other for power if they do not have a common. i think the emperor becams over confident and forgot this probibbly due to the fact that darth vader became too tooo dehumanised after his disfirement.

Originally posted by rougeredmage
welll i think it is obvious the reason the emperor lost.. isnt it true that sith allways end up fighting each other for power if they do not have a common. i think the emperor becams over confident and forgot this probibbly due to the fact that darth vader became too tooo dehumanised after his disfirement.

It would seem that its the way of the darkside to fight eachother for power. The question is, Lucas made it seem like Anakin could have been the most powerful and would have been able to defeat the empire. If so, then Anakin took a chill pill to stay Palpatine's apprentice.

Prolly Sidious had some Dark Side power over him.

Perhaps more meaning for...

"I must obey my master"?

That was what I was referring to, yes.

Just checking if I was right...again.

Well, that was a freebie. It was rather obvious.

But right nonetheless.

Nope.

You admitted so though.

I lied.

A lying mod?!

This tyranny must end!

Why? Aren't you enjoying it?

Well, every once in a while.

That's more than most.

Makes me laugh every once in a while.

There ya go. Not bad for a biased tyrant.

This is cool

Not bad.

Not bad at all.

Originally posted by queeq
There ya go. Not bad for a biased tyrant.

Says you.

As a tyrant should.

Only interested in freedom for yourself.

Sure.

I see how it is.

Good boy.

Not for you.

Off topic enough now... Closing.