Scathan vs Galactus, Eternity, Infinity, Phoenix Force, and Uatu

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Terryc250
They all gang up to take on Scathan the approver, who wins?

SpiderGauntlet
The hell? no expression








It's obviously Scathan and his magic blinding cloak.

Terryc250
huh?

iceman24567
Are you serious? No Celestrial can take any of these one on one except Uatu.

Terryc250
Do u even know who Scathan the celestial is?

iceman24567
Originally posted by Terryc250
Do u even know who Scathan the celestial is? One of the most powerful of his race but the abstracts win this.

Terryc250
Originally posted by iceman24567
One of the most powerful of his race but the abstracts win this.

He's comparable to the living tribunal and is said by many ppl to be above LT.. when Protege dulpicated LT's powers and was wiping the floor with the abstracts, LT couldnt do nothing, it was Scathan who took out Protege like nothing.

http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=75959541pn9.jpg
Protege owning the Guardians altogether, LT, and Eternity included, Scathan then pwned him like a fly

http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=canonrm1.jpg
Even in Living Tribunals official bio it states how powerful Scathan is.

(thx mr m. for the scans)

iceman24567
Originally posted by Terryc250
He's comparable to the living tribunal and is said by many ppl to be above LT.. when Protege was wiping the floor with the abstracts, LT couldnt do nothing, it was Scathan who took out Protege like nothing. People can say what they want but he is not above the Living Tribunal that's crazy talk.

Terryc250
I guess Marvel is just a bunch of crazy talk

llagrok
Scathan.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Terryc250
He's comparable to the living tribunal and is said by many ppl to be above LT.. when Protege dulpicated LT's powers and was wiping the floor with the abstracts, LT couldnt do nothing, it was Scathan who took out Protege like nothing.

http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=75959541pn9.jpg
Protege owning the Guardians altogether, LT, and Eternity included, Scathan then pwned him like a fly

http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=canonrm1.jpg
Even in Living Tribunals official bio it states how powerful Scathan is.

(thx mr m. for the scans)

If yu thank Mr M for the scans then you also know how he looks at scathan like PIS incarnated.

Terryc250
How is that PIS? Scathan wasnt even the main character of the story, does that mean the bio is PIS too? I dont understand how that can be considered PIS.. if Scathan has been shown to be normally be weaker then i would understand ..

Btw he also looks at Scathan to be above LT.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Terryc250
How is that PIS? Scathan wasnt even the main character of the story, does that mean the bio is PIS too? I dont understand how that can be considered PIS.. if Scathan has been shown to be normally be weaker then i would understand ..

Btw he also looks at Scathan to be above LT.

It is PIS when you look at all the facts.

Scathan is a Celestial A celestial is not above Eternity in therms of power, but suddenly we have a Celestial that is above LT even though LT's Bio clearly states that he is the most powerful creature in the Omniverse (second after TOAA) and yet Scathan was above him What the f**k? on top of that LT choses to draw energy from Agamotto to gain more power, Power that he isn't allow to wield he has been given that powerset and he can not oversteb that but he still did. Read Mr Masters Post on the subject, I just stated Mr Masters openion about Scathan.

SpiderGauntlet
Originally posted by Terryc250
How is that PIS? Scathan wasnt even the main character of the story, does that mean the bio is PIS too? I dont understand how that can be considered PIS.. if Scathan has been shown to be normally be weaker then i would understand ..

Btw he also looks at Scathan to be above LT.

CELESTIAL ARE BELOW THE LIVING TRIBUNAL.

Unless you think the LT who is supposed to protect the Multiverse is below a celestial =/. Also the LT is a portion of TOAA's power. NO one being can be above it. Only bs like Class MM,Beyonder and a sum of TOAA's power from HOTU.

The write obviously didn't not know anything about the LT. Otherwise anyone with copy abillities could win. Also LT> Little brat.

And putting a cloak over the LT's face (Protege has his powers) is not going to blind them. Unless this is the limit of Omniscience. smile

And why the F would LT need Agamotto's power? He is below Galactus in his own ream

iceman24567
Originally posted by iceman24567
One of the most powerful of his race but the abstracts win this. Looks like im not the only person to think the abstracts win thank you. eek!

Terryc250
Why is it so "impossible" for a creator to be weaker then the creation? Its said that celestials were the ones who created the mutants in the first place, yet there have been many mutants who have surpassed even Celestials, and above. I dont even understand that statement of LT being only second to TOAA, because there have been characters/entities that have came and gone who were more powerful then LT.

Originally posted by SpiderGauntlet
CELESTIAL ARE BELOW THE LIVING TRIBUNAL.

Unless you think the LT who is supposed to protect the Multiverse is below a celestial =/. Also the LT is a portion of TOAA's power. NO one being can be above it. Only bs like Class MM,Beyonder and a sum of TOAA's power from HOTU.

The write obviously didn't not know anything about the LT. Otherwise anyone with copy abillities could win. Also LT> Little brat.

And putting a cloak over the LT's face (Protege has his powers) is not going to blind them. Unless this is the limit of Omniscience. smile

And why the F would LT need Agamotto's power? He is below Galactus in his own ream

Hate it all you want, but its canon.. hell we dont even know much about Scathan.. for all we know he couldve been a celestial being that is somehow related to TOAA for further judgement

iceman24567
Originally posted by Terryc250
Why is it so "impossible" for a creator to be weaker then the creation? Its said that celestials were the ones who created the mutants in the first place, yet there have been many mutants who have surpassed even Celestials, and above. I dont even understand that statement of LT being only second to TOAA, because there have been characters/entities that have came and gone who were more powerful then LT.



Hate it all you want, but its canon.. hell we dont even know much about Scathan.. for all we know he couldve been a celestial being that is somehow related to TOAA for further judgement Name one character that was ever more powerful than the Living Tribunal. No super amped characters like Thanos with the infinity gauntlet.

Xplosive
Originally posted by Utrigita
It is PIS when you look at all the facts.

Yes, Mr Master said it's a PIS, but when you say that Xorn what did to Phoenix Force or Shiar laser to Phoenix Force, and when you say, that is a PIS, he doesn't say it's a PIS, but when you say for LT, it's a PIS.

Anyway, Scathan is not above Living Tribunal, but the fact remains, that in that story, Scathan seemed to be the most powerful being.

xjustice69x
it could be that once protege took the LTs power. LT could not fight him becaus it was the same power set. proly feeds protege to fight him with his own power.
but proly does not duplicate them at the same power levels.
so scathan steped in and took care of the problem.
i also dout that he held the athority of the LT just becaus he duplicated the power.
all powers have a base rank or power level. while power mimicks are quite dangerous. thay are limited by that base power level/rank and only get the mimicked power at the mimicks base rank.
i think the team can win this

Terryc250
Originally posted by iceman24567
Name one character that was ever more powerful than the Living Tribunal. No super amped characters like Thanos with the infinity gauntlet.
Precon Molecule Man, the brothers


Protege still rocked the abstracts, and Scathan still squashed Protege like a bug

SuperiorTech
Originally posted by Xplosive
Yes, Mr Master said it's a PIS, but when you say that Xorn what did to Phoenix Force or Shiar laser to Phoenix Force, and when you say, that is a PIS, he doesn't say it's a PIS, but when you say for LT, it's a PIS.

Anyway, Scathan is not above Living Tribunal, but the fact remains, that in that story, Scathan seemed to be the most powerful being.

eh people like to pick and choose what they consider pis and what they dont.

xjustice69x
Originally posted by Terryc250
Precon Molecule Man, the brothers


Protege still rocked the abstracts, and Scathan still squashed Protege like a bug
like you said befor mabey scathan then became the toaa's judge?

Utrigita
Originally posted by Xplosive
Yes, Mr Master said it's a PIS, but when you say that Xorn what did to Phoenix Force or Shiar laser to Phoenix Force, and when you say, that is a PIS, he doesn't say it's a PIS, but when you say for LT, it's a PIS.

What the f**k? this doesn't make any sense Xplosive.

Anyway, Scathan is not above Living Tribunal, but the fact remains, that in that story, Scathan seemed to be the most powerful being.

agreed

Utrigita
Originally posted by Terryc250
Precon Molecule Man, the brothers

The Brothers is two megaverses created by LT I fail to see how they are more powerful then him unless ofcause it is Pre Retcon Brothers.

And then we have like what... Pre-retcon Beyonder/MM/Brothers thats what you have, that is above LT notice all is Pre retcon.

Protege still rocked the abstracts, and Scathan still squashed Protege like a bug

Oh you mean putting a bag over the head of a Omniscient being and thus blinding him, if by that you mean squased like a bug then sure.

Sundipped
I believe Scathan was operating on behalf of OAA in that run. Other than that no way is Scathan beating this team.

People need to look at the circumstances involved when passing judgement on this kind of PIS. LT>>>>>>>any Celestial. Don't forget common knowledge.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Xplosive
Yes, Mr Master said it's a PIS, but when you say that Xorn what did to Phoenix Force or Shiar laser to Phoenix Force, and when you say, that is a PIS, he doesn't say it's a PIS, but when you say for LT, it's a PIS.

What the heck does Phoenix have to do with this thread?


But to entertain your personal remark,


Phoenix has been pwnd plenty of times on panel.

While LT has never been pwnd,
other than Classic Beyonder/MM. (but they don't exist anymore)
The Brothers were Retconned 3 Months after their dayview, laughing out loud
so they shouldn't even count.

LT is stated Many times to be the most powerful entity in Marvel beneath Toaa.
(On Panel and in BioS)


Celestial have ALWAYS been beneath the LT, that's why it's PIS!
..........................................................................................


Since you brought it up though,

As far as the Xorn incident is concerned:


On Panel:

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3669/1vd7.th.jpg

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5718/2eb7.th.jpg



Beast remembers: (in ANOTHER arc)

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1715/jeandiesuj7.th.jpg
......................................................................................


Bio:


(From the Official Marvel Universe Handbook 2005)
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/1528/pf1ih0.th.jpg

"Jean Grey was Killed by an Electromagnetic Pulse,

this shattered the Force into Billions of PIECES"
......................................................................................

Unlike the LT/Scathan PIS that was limited to one issue and never referenced again.

This incident involving Xorn & the Phoenix Force
was actually recalled (in yet ANOTHER arc)
by the embodiment of the Phoenix Force itself in "Endsong"

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1430/pfbillioncl9.th.jpg
"I thought I was Dead, in a Billion Billion PIECES"


Ouch.

Terryc250
Scathan clearly isnt ur regular Celestial..

its just like how mutants were ALWAYS below celestials, yet we had one like MJJ who appeared

starlock
Originally posted by Mr Master
What the heck does Phoenix have to do with this thread?


But to entertain your personal remark,


Phoenix has been pwnd plenty of times on panel.

While LT has never been pwnd,
other than Classic Beyonder/MM. (but they don't exist anymore)
The Brothers were Retconned 3 Months after their dayview, laughing out loud
so they shouldn't even count.

LT is stated Many times to be the most powerful entity in Marvel beneath Toaa.
(On Panel and in BioS)


Celestial have ALWAYS been beneath the LT, that's why it's PIS!
..........................................................................................


Since you brought it up though,

As far as the Xorn incident is concerned:


On Panel:

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3669/1vd7.th.jpg

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5718/2eb7.th.jpg



Beast remembers: (in ANOTHER arc)

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1715/jeandiesuj7.th.jpg
......................................................................................


Bio:


(From the Official Marvel Universe Handbook 2005)
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/1528/pf1ih0.th.jpg

"Jean Grey was Killed by an Electromagnetic Pulse,

this shattered the Force into Billions of PIECES"
......................................................................................

Unlike the LT/Scathan PIS that was limited to one issue and never referenced again.

This incident involving Xorn & the Phoenix Force
was actually recalled (in yet ANOTHER arc)
by the embodiment of the Phoenix Force itself in "Endsong"

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1430/pfbillioncl9.th.jpg
"I thought I was Dead, in a Billion Billion PIECES"


Ouch.

Does your hatred for the phoenix blind you to the participants in the match, if you look it has phoenix in the thread


Btw team wins

guy222
Scathan wins

Scathan the Approver is the most powerful Celestial(Earth-691)

I've always believed LT and Scathan =

Celestial muzzle, then LT takes care of Protege. Its just how it was written

Mr Master
Originally posted by starlock
Does your hatred for the phoenix blind you to

Meaningless waffle.

Originally posted by starlock
the participants in the match,
if you look it has phoenix in the thread

Oh my, something of significance,
thanx for the heads up,
I missed it because X threw me off my zone by attacking me personally,
sortalike what you do all the time, only you're a Troll,
while I don't necessarily consider X one, he just genuinely loves Phoenix.

Originally posted by starlock
Btw team wins

If it's Scathan from GOTG #50,
then Scathan wins in a stomp.

If it's Scathan, as we know Celestials,
then the Team wins in a stomp.

Sundipped
Originally posted by Xplosive
Yes, Mr Master said it's a PIS, but when you say that Xorn what did to Phoenix Force or Shiar laser to Phoenix Force, and when you say, that is a PIS, he doesn't say it's a PIS, but when you say for LT, it's a PIS.

It's PIS in both cases. Xorn was decapitated by Wolverine.
Now is Wolverine>>Phoenix Force?????? no

Now that I think about it it's now Wolverine/admantium>>>>>>Xorn and Phoenix Force. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Mr Master
Originally posted by Sundipped
It's PIS in both cases.
Xorn was decapitated by Wolverine.
Now is Wolverine>>Phoenix Force??????

Actually, Xorn not only allowed that, but literally asked for it:


http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/7381/x1cm7.th.jpg
"Give me Death ... make me immortal"



So Wolvy obliged:

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/5899/x2jz8.th.jpg

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/1622/x3ok0.th.jpg

Originally posted by Sundipped
Now that I think about it it's now Wolverine/admantium>>>>>>Xorn and Phoenix Force.

With the added detail this sarcasm doesn't really fit.

Air Legend
Scathan in a stomp.

Bransolute
I'd like to know how that Scathan feat got so overrated on the forum... no expression

He covered Protege's eyes, and held his shoulders. no expression

Terryc250
Originally posted by Mr Master

If it's Scathan, as we know Celestials,

I dont get this.. when has Scathan ever been "as we know Celestials" all Celestials have different ranges of powers, like mutants, eternals, skrulls, etc.. we've only seen one Scathan at one power, nothing less

Mr Master
Originally posted by Terryc250
I dont get this.. when has Scathan ever been "as we know Celestials" all Celestials have different ranges of powers

Even the mightiest known Celestial (according to Marvel History) is below Eternity.
Below Eternity in power & status.

Who's been known as the mightiest single Celestial before & after the Scathan scandal?

Tiamut. (I think it was expressed in 2007 ... right guy222?)

Taimut needed to use an Alternate Galactus to try and destroy a Universe.

Which means, that's a HUGE gap, between Tiamut (not even a Universal destroyer)

to Scathan, who's portrayed as apparently = or greater than LT.
.............................................................................

IMO, though this is not conclusive,

Scathan was operating under the direct off-panel authority of Toaa in that single arc.

It's the only thing that makes sense if we're going to consider it.

Otherwise it's the biggest cosmological PIS in Marvel,
and even more insulting because Marvel acknowledges it.

Galan007
Originally posted by Mr Master
Taimut needed to use an Alternate Galactus to try and destroy a Universe.

Which means, that's a HUGE gap, between Tiamut (not even a Universal destroyer) When was it stated the Black Celestial, and Tiamut were one in the same?

Or are you talking about another instance?

Mr Master
Originally posted by Galan007
When was it stated the Black Celestial, and Tiamut were one in the same?

Or are you talking about another instance?

Taimut is the Dreaming Celestial that became the Black Celestial,

in that FF arc.

Same cat that created the Deviants,
same cat who had his power tapped by Gauhr.

guy222
Tiamut is the most powerful Celestial yes

Gaiman did a great job

We will all find out why Tiamut created Makkari

Terryc250
Originally posted by Mr Master
Even the mightiest known Celestial (according to Marvel History) is below Eternity.
Below Eternity in power & status.

Who's been known as the mightiest single Celestial before & after the Scathan scandal?

Tiamut. (I think it was expressed in 2007 ... right guy222?)

Taimut needed to use an Alternate Galactus to try and destroy a Universe.

Which means, that's a HUGE gap, between Tiamut (not even a Universal destroyer)

to Scathan, who's portrayed as apparently = or greater than LT.
.............................................................................

IMO, though this is not conclusive,

Scathan was operating under the direct off-panel authority of Toaa in that single arc.

It's the only thing that makes sense if we're going to consider it.

Otherwise it's the biggest cosmological PIS in Marvel,
and even more insulting because Marvel acknowledges it.

I'm pretty sure Scathan existed way after Tiamut, that would make alot more sense, we still dont know Scathan's background and how he achieved his power anyway

Mr Master
Originally posted by Terryc250
I'm pretty sure Scathan existed way after Tiamut, that would make alot more sense,

Actually Tiamut reappeared this year, while Scathan appeared in 1994,
and if I'm not mistaken,
Taimut is still considered the most powerful Celestial ever.

guy222 should know for sure.

Originally posted by Terryc250
we still dont know Scathan's background and how he achieved his power anyway

I don't believe in Scathan,
I don't believe Scathan carries that kind of power around,
I believe it was a moment catered to the circumstances specific to that issue (GOTG #50)

I never saw Scathan before that arc, or after,
I never heard from Scathan again ever anywhere, until LT's bio 2 years ago.
Where he's subtly referenced and still left with many questions in the air.

Most notably, why are you telling us that Scathan saved reality when LT couldn't,
when your opening statement is telling us ONLY TOAA is above the LT:

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6640/ltwk9.th.jpg

srugdoped

Look IMO,

we can use Scathan, but we should be specific.

Astner
Which means that Scathan is the true TOAA :O

Terryc250
Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually Tiamut reappeared this year, while Scathan appeared in 1994,
and if I'm not mistaken,
Taimut is still considered the most powerful Celestial ever.

guy222 should know for sure.



I don't believe in Scathan,
I don't believe Scathan carries that kind of power around,
I believe it was a moment catered to the circumstances specific to that issue (GOTG #50)

I never saw Scathan before that arc, or after,
I never heard from Scathan again ever anywhere, until LT's bio 2 years ago.
Where he's subtly referenced and still left with many questions in the air.

Most notably, why are you telling us that Scathan saved reality when LT couldn't,
when your opening statement is telling us ONLY TOAA is above the LT:

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6640/ltwk9.th.jpg

srugdoped

Look IMO,

we can use Scathan, but we should be specific.

Im not talking about the release dates of the comics, im talking about the chronological order, maybe the events of GOTC #50 takes place far in the future. Their have been beings time and time again that have become more powerful then the LT..

Utrigita
Originally posted by Terryc250
Im not talking about the release dates of the comics, im talking about the chronological order, maybe the events of GOTC #50 takes place far in the future. Their have been beings time and time again that have become more powerful then the LT..

there have been Pre retcon MM/Beyonder/Brothers how many more apart from Scathan???

Mr Master
Originally posted by Terryc250
Im not talking about the release dates of the comics, im talking about the chronological order, maybe the events of GOTC #50 takes place far in the future.

I see. I don't see how that affects the history of what Celestials have always been though.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Their have been beings time and time again that have become more powerful then the LT..

Like who?

Mutants have become ridiculously powerful,
but none have proven to be even close to LT.

Btw.

just because Humans/Mutaunts evolve into Uber beings,
doesn't mean Celestials will:

There's a huge difference between beings composed of Energy/power,
and Humans/Mutants:

here's an example:

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/4679/ku1vi3.th.jpg

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/7238/kudh5.th.jpg

Cats like Cube beings, Celestials, Abstracts
are limited to what they are,
while Humans have the potential to evolve far beyond that.

Galan007
I cannot stand Scathan as a character -- Marvel was just digging too damn much when they came up with him, imo.

He'd take this though. thumb down

JediSamuraiMRB
The Approver wins

batdude123
LOL @ people trying to justify the whole LT/Scathan debacle.

Tenebrous
Oneg the Prober for the win

guy222
Happy Dance

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Mr Master
What the heck does Phoenix have to do with this thread?


But to entertain your personal remark,


Phoenix has been pwnd plenty of times on panel.

While LT has never been pwnd,
other than Classic Beyonder/MM. (but they don't exist anymore)
The Brothers were Retconned 3 Months after their dayview, laughing out loud
so they shouldn't even count.

LT is stated Many times to be the most powerful entity in Marvel beneath Toaa.
(On Panel and in BioS)


Celestial have ALWAYS been beneath the LT, that's why it's PIS!
..........................................................................................


Since you brought it up though,

As far as the Xorn incident is concerned:


On Panel:

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3669/1vd7.th.jpg

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5718/2eb7.th.jpg



Beast remembers: (in ANOTHER arc)

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1715/jeandiesuj7.th.jpg
......................................................................................


Bio:


(From the Official Marvel Universe Handbook 2005)
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/1528/pf1ih0.th.jpg

"Jean Grey was Killed by an Electromagnetic Pulse,

this shattered the Force into Billions of PIECES"
......................................................................................

Unlike the LT/Scathan PIS that was limited to one issue and never referenced again.

This incident involving Xorn & the Phoenix Force
was actually recalled (in yet ANOTHER arc)
by the embodiment of the Phoenix Force itself in "Endsong"

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1430/pfbillioncl9.th.jpg
"I thought I was Dead, in a Billion Billion PIECES"


Ouch.
when did Classic MM or beyonder actually pwn the LT? I can't remember a panel ever showing them actually defeating him. And y is it PIS for scathan to be above the LT but not PIS for MM or the classic beyonder when they never even beat him?

silverstream
scathan loses, wolverine powered by toaa beats protege stick out tongue

guy222
when was logan powered by toaa

Air Legend
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
when did Classic MM or beyonder actually pwn the LT? I can't remember a panel ever showing them actually defeating him. And y is it PIS for scathan to be above the LT but not PIS for MM or the classic beyonder when they never even beat him?
Cuz they have performed better feats you mental retar4d.

Xplosive
Originally posted by Mr Master
What the heck does Phoenix have to do with this thread?


But to entertain your personal remark,


Phoenix has been pwnd plenty of times on panel.

While LT has never been pwnd,
other than Classic Beyonder/MM. (but they don't exist anymore)
The Brothers were Retconned 3 Months after their dayview, laughing out loud
so they shouldn't even count.

LT is stated Many times to be the most powerful entity in Marvel beneath Toaa.
(On Panel and in BioS)


Celestial have ALWAYS been beneath the LT, that's why it's PIS!
..........................................................................................


Since you brought it up though,

As far as the Xorn incident is concerned:


On Panel:

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3669/1vd7.th.jpg

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5718/2eb7.th.jpg



Beast remembers: (in ANOTHER arc)

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1715/jeandiesuj7.th.jpg
......................................................................................


Bio:


(From the Official Marvel Universe Handbook 2005)
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/1528/pf1ih0.th.jpg

"Jean Grey was Killed by an Electromagnetic Pulse,

this shattered the Force into Billions of PIECES"
......................................................................................

Unlike the LT/Scathan PIS that was limited to one issue and never referenced again.

This incident involving Xorn & the Phoenix Force
was actually recalled (in yet ANOTHER arc)
by the embodiment of the Phoenix Force itself in "Endsong"

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1430/pfbillioncl9.th.jpg
"I thought I was Dead, in a Billion Billion PIECES"


Ouch.

You know that Phoenix Force is so beyond that and you don't consider it as a PIS.?


Well, we should see more from Scathan, but from the appearance he made (which was very small), he seems to be above LT.

Mr Master, you made your Marvel Hierachy by feats (which isn't reliable, since there are also feats which weren't actually feats), I wonder why you didn't include Protege and Scathan.?
Where they appeared, both were more powerful than Living Tribunal.

King Kandy
Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually Tiamut reappeared this year, while Scathan appeared in 1994,
and if I'm not mistaken,
Taimut is still considered the most powerful Celestial ever.

guy222 should know for sure.
Um, I think what he meant is that since GotG happened in the future, Scathan could have been a "Future" celestial who wasn't around at the same time as Tiamut.

Mr Master
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
when did Classic MM or beyonder actually pwn the LT?

LT was too afraid to challenge them.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I can't remember a panel ever showing them actually defeating him.

But you should remember LT being "Desperate" concerning Beyonder,
and "Trembling" when Beyonder was finally going to be attacked by Eternity in Beyondersbane.

You should remember because I showed tyou the scans. smile

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And y is it PIS for scathan to be above the LT but not PIS for MM or the classic beyonder when they never even beat him?

Because Ceelstials have always been below Eternity & LT.

Heck, a Celestial has never been even able to destroy a Single Universe,
now I'm supposed to embrace the idea that a Celestial is = or greater than LT?

Until another arc or issue corroborates this idea, I can't accept it completely.
Or perhaps the 2008 update Bios will shed some light,
though it's been nearly 14 years since Scathan appeared on panel,
how much longer is the wait gonna take.

Then again, like I mentioned earlier, Taimut has made appearances THIS Year,
and was claimed to be the most powerful Celestial ever.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Xplosive
You know that Phoenix Force is so beyond that and you don't consider it as a PIS.?

PIS is something that usualy takes place in one title issue or arc,
and is overlooked or ignored by other titles and/or said title where it originated.

The incident with Xorn & Phoenix,

Took place in "New X-Men"
was reference in memory by Beast in "X-Factor"
was confirmed to have happened in the Phoenix' Force's Official Marvel "Bio,"
and was again reference in memory by the Phoenix Force itself in "Endsong."

Originally posted by Xplosive
Well, we should see more from Scathan, but from the appearance he made (which was very small), he seems to be above LT.

Which goes agiants everything we know about Celestials since the early 1980s.

Besides the fact,
that this incident has Never been reference anywhere else on panel.

IMO, Scathan was working directly for Toaa in that arc.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Mr Master, you made your Marvel Hierachy by feats (which isn't reliable, since there are also feats which weren't actually feats),

Really like what?

If you're going to mention the Excalibur (Sword of Might) & the Amulet of Right well,

when Writers put Roma (Omniversal guardian)
to state that the Sword (Excalibur) is the "Hand of god"
and that both items combined can Remake the Omniverse,

it's more than likely true.

Originally posted by Xplosive
I wonder why you didn't include Protege and Scathan.?

Actually I did relunctantly include Scathan & Protege in my latest hierarchy.
only because LT's 06' bio confirmed the incident.

I still don't understand or like it though.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Where they appeared, both were more powerful than Living Tribunal.

Actually Protege was not more powerful than LT,
Protege was never more powerful than LT.

Protege copied LT's power,
then Protege owned Eternity & company, LT was there,
but we can't tell if LT was being owned or attacked at all,
then Scathan muzzled Protege,
then while Scathan held a muzzled Protege,
LT drawing on the ancient one's amulet laughing out loud absorbed Protege.

Mr Master
Originally posted by King Kandy
Um, I think what he meant is that since GotG happened in the future, Scathan could have been a "Future" celestial who wasn't around at the same time as Tiamut.

I understood,
but like I meant,
there's no prrof of any kind that Celestials become more powerful with time.

So whether it was the past, present or future,
is inconsequential.

Xplosive
Originally posted by Mr Master
PIS is something that usualy takes place in one title issue or arc,
and is overlooked or ignored by other titles and/or said title where it originated.

The incident with Xorn & Phoenix,

Took place in "New X-Men"
was reference in memory by Beast in "X-Factor"
was confirmed to have happened in the Phoenix' Force's Official Marvel "Bio,"
and was again reference in memory by the Phoenix Force itself in "Endsong."

It's still a PIS in my and many (probably majority) eyes.
Also what here happened is mentioned in Living Tribunal BIO.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Really like what?

If you're going to mention the Excalibur (Sword of Might) & the Amulet of Right well,

when Writers put Roma (Omniversal guardian)
to state that the Sword (Excalibur) is the "Hand of god"
and that both items combined can Remake the Omniverse,

it's more than likely true.

Indeed. It could be true, but it's not an actual feat. Anyway, it's ok.


Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually I did relunctantly include Scathan & Protege in my latest hierarchy.
only because LT's 06' bio confirmed the incident.

I still don't understand or like it though.

Aha. My apologize, I guess I missed that.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually Protege was not more powerful than LT,
Protege was never more powerful than LT.

Protege copied LT's power,
then Protege owned Eternity & company, LT was there,
but we can't tell if LT was being owned or attacked at all,
then Scathan muzzled Protege,
then while Scathan held a muzzled Protege,
LT drawing on the ancient one's amulet laughing out loud absorbed Protege.

It seemed like they were equal in power. Protege was able to actually absorb LT power.
I don't like what happened, but it did happen.

I still give LT easily above any Celestial, it's not even comparable.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Xplosive
It's still a PIS in my and many (probably majority) eyes.

Cool.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Also what here happened is mentioned in Living Tribunal BIO.

That's true,
which is why I relunctantly accepted it with a bitter taste in my mouth.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Indeed. It could be true, but it's not an actual feat. Anyway, it's ok.

Cool.

Originally posted by Xplosive
It seemed like they were equal in power.

Correct.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Protege was able to actually absorb LT power.

Actually Protege copied LT's power,
LT still had his power though.

Originally posted by Xplosive
I don't like what happened, but it did happen.

I still give LT easily above any Celestial, it's not even comparable.

thumb up

I'm going to read every issue after the Scathan scandal,
see if I find anything I've missed in the past in the GOTG run. (only 12 issues)

Xplosive
Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually Protege copied LT's power,
LT still had his power though.

I'm going to read every issue after the Scathan scandal,
see if I find anything I've missed in the past in the GOTG run. (only 12 issues)

Yes, I meant he had copied them.

Only what happened with Scathan would be logically explained TOAA himself interved and empowered Scathan. Because I don't see any Celestial even comparable to LT.

Sundipped
Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually, Xorn not only allowed that, but literally asked for it:


http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/7381/x1cm7.th.jpg
"Give me Death ... make me immortal"

Still doesn't change the fact that it's still PIS. PF>>>Xorn.
PF>>>>>"so called magnetic pulse". Should have/could have been absorbed.




Why not? He killed em both. smile Admantium>>>>>PF and Xorn. laughing
But really PF has the ability to transmute both into rubber dolls. stick out tongue

xjustice69x
was it not an emp? and arent emps harmless to organics?

Mr Master
Originally posted by Sundipped
Still doesn't change the fact that it's still PIS. PF>>>Xorn.
That may be but ...
Originally posted by Mr Master
PIS is something that usualy takes place in one title issue or arc,
and is overlooked or ignored by other titles and/or said title where it originated.

The incident with Xorn & Phoenix,

Took place in "New X-Men"
was reference in memory by Beast in "X-Factor"
was confirmed to have happened in the Phoenix' Force's Official Marvel "Bio,"
and was again referenced in memory by the Phoenix Force itself in "Endsong."

Originally posted by Sundipped
PF>>>>>"so called magnetic pulse".
Should have/could have been absorbed.

Not according to several On Panel accounts across separate titles,
and the Phoenix's own Official bio.

Had the PF and Xorn battled,
I'd give the PF the win.
But I guess what that scenerio represents is,
if Xorn can get in a hit on a mortal Avatar, Xorn wins.
(and the Force is evidently affected as well)

(just sayin, based off All that evidence)

Originally posted by Sundipped
Why not? He killed em both.

They both allowed him to do so.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Admantium>>>>>PF and Xorn.

If they allow it, as demonstrated On Panel,
I agree.

Originally posted by Sundipped
But really PF has the ability to transmute both into rubber dolls.

Perhaps,
but it didn't stop Xorn from exploding the Phoenix Force itself into Billions of pieces.

And the Phoenix Force itself acknowledged this in a separate arc:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1430/pfbillioncl9.th.jpg
"I thought I was Dead, in a Billion Billion PIECES"

Sundipped
Originally posted by Mr Master



I'll give Xorn the win (albeit it was a sneaky move) and just say that the avatar can be harmed if initial defenses aren't up. Other avatars have blocked attacks from Galactus and have the ability to consume suns with no ill effects at all. Just seemd to easy for Xorn.




I don't. Horrible writing also exists.



That's the defensive lapse I was talking about.



I don't deny that it happened, just that it shouldn't have happened. At least not that easily.

Terryc250
Theres no was PIS can amp up someones power dramatically THAT much, even without PIS, Scathan must be above eternity,galactus,etc.. we dont know Scathan's background and how he achieved those powers anyway, there is probably a story behind it all.

guy222
When the 6th Celestial Host arrives, maybe Scathan will be among the Celestials

Terryc250
^ Doubt it, i don't think Scathan is around yet, if Tiamut is there

guy222
It be nice to see Tiamut with the Host

id369
I would conclude the Xorn vs. Phoenix match as PISS. Your a quote on qoute “Cosmic Characters”, that is introduced taking shots from more powerful characters (Firelord anyone?). With an arsenal of abilities, that no mere mutant should be able to defend from. Take it one step farther, you even see the Phoenix character survive destruction of a solar system at ground zero. Look at the plot, you have a character that would degrade any plot revolving X-Men or just about any threat related to earth. With much hype, and claims forging the Phoenix Force (many from respectable characters). Its so obvious that the page itself, wants to reach out and slap you in the face. To me, it looks like the writers have something cooking of Jean and the Phoenix force. But wanted to trend new waters, so why not set her aside for future use. Thus end any real opposition that would end the arc prematurely. House of M, Deadly Genesis, World War Hulk…if the Phoenix would have bin fully operational. Don’t you think the plot would have diverge, from the actions and consequences set forth?

I blame the marvel writers, the Phoenix character is a mess. It seem to be the culmination of brain storming from several members. Add on out right authority to change the mythos, with out putting an ounce of thought or back ground check of the original intention..well that’s what really kills the character.


Peace out - Id

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