What's more important:- national security or human rights

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Bicnarok
This is an issue nowadays seeing as people get locked up without trail, tortured and can be branded a terrorist for minor things like demonstrating.

I personally think they are taking more control, and getting rid of many human rights by over-selling the terrorist threat.

dadudemon
There is a happy equilibrium. As technology gets better, less freedoms will have to be infringed on. Facial recognition software is improving as computing power and software improves....

Hmmm...some people say that the tracking chips in the national drivers licenses are an infringement on privacy...I agree but I also see the other side of the story...how many lost or endangered people can we find with that?...

It is REALLY hard to think of everything and compromise.

When facial recognition software is perfected, people will modify how their face looks with prosthetics...and so on and so forth.

I am rambling now....

Deano
Originally posted by Bicnarok
This is an issue nowadays seeing as people get locked up without trail, tortured and can be branded a terrorist for minor things like demonstrating.

I personally think they are taking more control, and getting rid of many human rights by over-selling the terrorist threat.

just as they've been planning it for decades.

and its only going to get worse smile

Alpha Centauri
Deano, let me ask you something.

Supposing everything you've ever believed, every conspiracy theory is right, then what?

You'll suffer the same fate as everybody else, with the only difference being that you've spent a lifetime worrying.

-AC

Lemon Meringue
Originally posted by Bicnarok
This is an issue nowadays seeing as people get locked up without trail, tortured and can be branded a terrorist for minor things like demonstrating.

I personally think they are taking more control, and getting rid of many human rights by over-selling the terrorist threat.

Whear do peple get toturedd?

tabby999
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Deano, let me ask you something.

Supposing everything you've ever believed, every conspiracy theory is right, then what?

You'll suffer the same fate as everybody else, with the only difference being that you've spent a lifetime worrying.

-AC

"I told you so" bragging rights? I'd do it for that, tell me you wouldn't wink

Captain King
Explain these rights.

What rights are being taken away? I'm not saying you're not losing rights. I want to know what sortof rights you think we're losing, and what makes it worth jepordizing the lives of your family and friends.


Because frankly, my life hasn't changed much pre and post 9-11.

Bicnarok

The Grey Fox
Human Rights, okay?

KingTech
In my opinion human rights must be protected but in any case national security issues are more important . There should be no compromise on national security.

The Grey Fox
Originally posted by Lemon Meringue
Whear do peple get toturedd?

China, America, Russia, the other fairly major powers in the world, where dictators are, in christian countries, in Islamic countries, I could go on, but instead I'll just say this: Every place where fanaticsm (is that a word?) has taken over, whether by money, greed or religion, or anything else.

Deano
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Deano, let me ask you something.

Supposing everything you've ever believed, every conspiracy theory is right, then what?

You'll suffer the same fate as everybody else, with the only difference being that you've spent a lifetime worrying.

-AC

no one has to suffer any fate. because if people wake up and smell the coffee, then they cant manipulate us anymore. game over, at last

Deano
Originally posted by Captain King
Explain these rights.

What rights are being taken away? I'm not saying you're not losing rights. I want to know what sortof rights you think we're losing, and what makes it worth jepordizing the lives of your family and friends.


Because frankly, my life hasn't changed much pre and post 9-11.

http://mparent7777-2.blogspot.com/2007/11/police-taser-man-while-he-was-sleeping.html
http://www.nwotruth.com/man-tasered-for-refusing-to-sign-ticket/
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/12921.html

what if that was you or someone you loved?

i think you would be angry and would want justice. let me tell you that in the near future, this sort of behaviour will be permitted more often and there wont be a damn thing you can do.

Then what you going to do? Say, 'oh well i didnt get affected at the time, i wasnt aware enough to understand what was happening'

So tell me what are you going to do when a certain situation in the new world effects you, and your powerless to do nothing at all.

Consider the cosequences for the future, and look where we are heading

ragesRemorse
Originally posted by Deano
http://mparent7777-2.blogspot.com/2007/11/police-taser-man-while-he-was-sleeping.html
http://www.nwotruth.com/man-tasered-for-refusing-to-sign-ticket/
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/12921.html


So tell me what are you going to do when a certain situation in the new world effects you, and your powerless to do nothing at all.



Thats why i Breed Polar bears. No one wants to fvck with a Polar bear, especially with a laser canon strapped on its back. So...,im good

debbiejo
Human Rights is always more important. But where does one draw the line for our safety.. sad

ragesRemorse
National security is more important. I mean, having bigger bombs is what makes all the top nations respected

chithappens
I think what is funny is that "national security" tends to be more for major cities and the such. Terrorism is not gonna extend to Buckunham, AL so why would they care? Then again, they do not have a voice on the national stage.

In terms of a complete popular vote, I would almost certainly say human rights are more important.

inimalist
I have never liked that people see national security and human rights (I am assuming here you mean Individual rights) as polar opposites.

The only reason why we should have national security is to defend individual rights. In this frame of thought, they are both tools to arriving at the same end, namely the protection of individual liberty.

So, to reply more directly, the actions taken by ANY government in order to repress individual rights is AGAINST national security. Why? Well, lets look at Mr. Bush. He has repeatedly abused individual rights for reasons he justified as being in the interest of national security. There are 2 main groups that he has oppressed, foreigners and domestics. With regard to the foreigners, removing their individual rights has only managed to create more enemies for America, and to harden their resolve. There is no inhumane treatment that will destroy the will of people to fight America. With regard to domestics, the continued oppression (wire tapping, etc.) and the silencing of descent has polarized the American political scene. The biggest threat to national security that this poses is that the people of America are (rightfully) skeptical and unwilling to follow the president on more "national security" ventures. While immediately this is ok, suppose war (or other military action) with another nation were necessary (like Iran or Saudi Arabia). People will be less willing to support it, and thus it may never be done correctly. Another example of this may be Iraq. By misleading the public and killing hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis the government has destroyed support for maintaining the occupation of Baghdad, even though (and admittedly it is Bush's own fault) it may be in the best interests of American national security for them to stay the course (though not prior to invading, and recent events in Iraq should make people optimistic of the Iraqis ability to self govern responsibly).

chithappens
* Yes, I did mean individual rights.

Damn, I was going to make that post nearly verbatim.

I agree wholeheartedly. I find it hard to not see them as intertwined. In application, they are very, very closely connected.

chithappens
Long term U.S. occupation of Iraq (WTF!)

Did not want to just make a new topic.

How can you sign a deal and then fill in the details a year later?

This is some uber bullshit

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Bicnarok
This is an issue nowadays seeing as people get locked up without trail, tortured and can be branded a terrorist for minor things like demonstrating.


Because in the US, the Sixth is rarely implemented.

HolyMoly
I thing both things are very important, because when the national secutity is low, it is more difficult to protect the civilists living in this country. But it shouldn`t be allowed not to respect the human rights to get a higher national security.

Neo Darkhalen
When I convert the world into my Halen empire, you shall wish you had your mortal rights.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
When I convert the world into my Halen empire, you shall wish you had your mortal rights.

Do you have any #2 pencils in your pocket protector?

InnerRise
Originally posted by dadudemon
Do you have any #2 pencils in your pocket protector? haermm

anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

inimalist
Originally posted by dadudemon
Do you have any #2 pencils in your pocket protector?

my sentiments exactly

Neo Darkhalen
???

I don't have whatever a Pocket protector is, I'm not a nerd, I just like to take mock it.

It's funny how many people are paranoid now a days, it seems you are all quite challenged in the intellect department that is for sure.

However since you know of these PP and #2 do you have one yes, are you an iggnorant fool, a bore yes.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
???

I don't have whatever a Pocket protector is, I'm not a nerd, I just like to take mock it.

It's funny how many people are paranoid now a days, it seems you are all quite challenged in the intellect department that is for sure.

However since you know of these PP and #2 do you have one yes, are you an iggnorant fool, a bore yes.

laughing

Dude, it was a joke. I have no idea who you are but it was the perfect chance to make a very small joke and it wasn't supposed to be very funny...don't take things so personally. And yes, I am a VERY big nerd and I am not afraid to admit it. I never used a pocket protector or taped my glasses. (I don't need to wear glasses... big grin )

Also, I never abbreviated pocket protector to "PP"...is that some sort of leet nerd way of referring to pocket protectors? Also, it is spelled "ignorant"...not "iggnorant.". Congratulations...you when the irony prize. big grin

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by dadudemon
And yes, I am a VERY big nerd and I am not afraid to admit it. I never used a pocket protector or taped my glasses.

At least you're not plotting world domination.

Neo Darkhalen
Originally posted by dadudemon
laughing

Dude, it was a joke. I have no idea who you are but it was the perfect chance to make a very small joke and it wasn't supposed to be very funny...don't take things so personally. And yes, I am a VERY big nerd and I am not afraid to admit it. I never used a pocket protector or taped my glasses. (I don't need to wear glasses... big grin )

Also, I never abbreviated pocket protector to "PP"...is that some sort of leet nerd way of referring to pocket protectors? Also, it is spelled "ignorant"...not "iggnorant.". Congratulations...you when the irony prize. big grin

Thank you. big grin

dadudemon
Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
Thank you. big grin


you missed the setup I left for you.... sad I gave you the chance to nit pick "when" on purpose...but you didn't bite...I hear that that is a form of trolling...so I shouldn't really do that... sad

Neo Darkhalen
No that was to show you, that I don't care.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
No that was to show you, that I don't care.

Sooo....why did you respond? Or is the fact that you missed it to begin with because you spell things like ignorant like "iggnorant"? and now you are trying to pass it off like you noticed and purposefully ignored it? Tell me something...do you remain slightly swollen a few hours after being abducted by aliens?

Oh yes....Santa Claus.

Blax_Hydralisk
heh heh.. pwnt'd.

Neo Darkhalen
Originally posted by dadudemon
Sooo....why did you respond? Or is the fact that you missed it to begin with because you spell things like ignorant like "iggnorant"? and now you are trying to pass it off like you noticed and purposefully ignored it? Tell me something...do you remain slightly swollen a few hours after being abducted by aliens?

Oh yes....Santa Claus.

???

What is that all about, anyway have a nice day. big grin

We all make mistakes, some using past conversations to try and bait me, its stupid and pathetic, as well as very sad, grow up and stop being so immature......I am bored of you now.........goodbye.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
???

What is that all about, anyway have a nice day. big grin

We all make mistakes, some using past conversations to try and bait me, its stupid and pathetic, as well as very sad, grow up and stop being so immature......I am bored of you now.........goodbye.

I know...it sucks being the 1,304,233 pixel amoung millions of pixels in a full HD setup, doesn't it?

Neo Darkhalen
So how are you today?

chithappens
Originally posted by dadudemon
laughing

Dude, it was a joke. I have no idea who you are but it was the perfect chance to make a very small joke and it wasn't supposed to be very funny...don't take things so personally. And yes, I am a VERY big nerd and I am not afraid to admit it. I never used a pocket protector or taped my glasses. (I don't need to wear glasses... big grin )

Also, I never abbreviated pocket protector to "PP"...is that some sort of leet nerd way of referring to pocket protectors? Also, it is spelled "ignorant"...not "iggnorant.". Congratulations...you when the irony prize. big grin

Geez, glad I didn't do the pacifier joke...

Neo Darkhalen
???

dadudemon
Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
???


Me too. confused

Neo Darkhalen
We agree on something for once, it seems.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
We agree on something for once, it seems.

Right because we have known each other for so long and disagreed on many many things. wink

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