Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

http://www.armchairempire.com/images/feature-articles/Weekly-Top-10/best-ninjas/ryu-hayabusa.jpg

v.s.

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/f/f9/CC-Zack-Render.png

Haybusa gets the Kitetsu and all ninpo
Zack has all materia.

Who wins?

Stop posting that sh*t picture of Busa.

I wonder how materia works in Crisis Core's gameplay. hmm

OK, I'll stop.

It looks like he just came out of a dumpster.

Is this good:

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/5867/ninjagaiden2kz.jpg

Now who do you think wins?

Lol, much better. You should use the three posted in the first post in his respect thread (post is by SBP but I gave him the pics).

I'd have to see how materia works in CC (it's obviously different than FF7 because it's not turn-based ).

I read in the recent game informer magazine that once you activate 3 character limit breaks, you get a special ability, ie. activating 3 Aeris limit breaks restores all of your health and gives you temporary invunerability.

I want to see some gameplay vids to see how the materia works (to know like its accuracy and shit like that).

I am of course still assuming it plays like an action game. ermm

It plays like an action game. Hold on.

Oh that's right, it is...how can I forget the in-game pic of Zack and Sephiroth fighting?

And this..uEJeAfxdjZ0looks very similar to Kingdom Hearts.

Magic works similarly too. Hmm...Ryu 58%.

Yes it does.

Why do you think so?

Hayabusa just seems faster to me.

True.

Originally posted by Sado-sama
Hayabusa just seems faster to me.

Maybe you don't know that, but Zack can dodge machine gun fire, easily. And it was much more than one person shooting at him.

In a FMV of CC, a giant robot shooted at him and he cuted the bullet in half.

Erm..I saw him deflecting them, not so much dodging every bullet otherwise he would be near invisible. Ryu can actually move that fast in the game. They're speed is close, and yeah I don't know if Hayabusa is in fact faster because this is just how it seems to me.

Hayabusa is faster. But, how high was he when he sliced the jet in half? Or ws it a blimp?

What do you mean how high...he jumped off a building before doing it so I'm not sure.

However, he did avoid that blast by Omega in DOA3 by jumping high enough. He's a good jumper alright.

Like, was he 200ft high or sumthin?

He was at least higher than a 40 ft castle which Omega destroyed.

Though it doesn't matter. Ryu can teleport higher in the air.

Oh.

Ryubusa should win this. So far we have seen him pull off more impressive sword play. If he is not faster than Zack now he will be in NGII by leaps and bounds. Only way I see Zack pulling off a victory is having god like materia. But if restricted to elemental material such as fire,earth,ice,water,lightning and wind. Would be ok. But i still say Ryu can would win. By just being more skilled and faster. Ryu strength is in the area of of zack.and zack strength is in the area os Ryubusa.

I say Ryu 67%

Originally posted by Csdabest
Ryubusa should win this.I share the same opinion.

Originally posted by Csdabest
So far we have seen him pull off more impressive sword play.Remember he just has the Kitetsu. I say it's about equal in that category.

Originally posted by Csdabest
If he is not faster than Zack now he will be in NGII by leaps and bounds.r0fl, I don't think Hayabusa will get faster.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Only way I see Zack pulling off a victory is having god like materia.Like Holy, Meteor, etc.? I don't think he's used those..and I think..the spells take some time. ermm

Originally posted by Csdabest
But if restricted to elemental material such as fire,earth,ice,water,lightning and wind. Would be ok. But i still say Ryu can would win. By just being more skilled and faster.More skilled and faster is opinion IMO. Ryu has shown better speed in gameplay than in cutscenes, and it's vice versa for Zack.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Ryu strength is in the area of of zack.and zack strength is in the area os Ryubusa.Pretty much yes. Ryu also wields a 100 lbs berserker sword similar to the Buster Sword.

Originally posted by Csdabest
I say Ryu 67% 57% in my opinion.

Ryu ftw IMO. Faster, more skilled, about as strong, he wins.

Originally posted by Sado-sama
Erm..I saw him deflecting them, not so much dodging every bullet otherwise he would be near invisible.

He dodged bullets in a scene of Last Order.

Originally posted by SHM
He dodged bullets in a scene of Last Order. Guns are nothing to Ryu either. So what's your point?

Dodging machine guns bullets from multiple people...ermm

Sounds like someone just avoiding getting hit by them.

FLYING SWALLOW FTW!!!!!

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Guns are nothing to Ryu either. So what's your point?

My point is that Sado-sama said he saw Zack deflecting bullets, not dodging them. So I pointed to a scene where he did that.

Originally posted by SHM
My point is that Sado-sama said he saw Zack deflecting bullets, not dodging them. So I pointed to a scene where he did that. Oh okay. Well...here's my opinion.

Strength: Bout equal IMO, both can easily wield large heavy weapons, and both can cut thru hard objects easily, like stone, or when Ryu cut a jet in half.

Speed: Ryu by a little.

Durability: ....I'm not really sure.

Power: IMO Ryu's ninpo is more powerful than Zack's materia.

Versatility: Ryu....I don't even need a reason.

Skill: Actually, I think it's pretty close.

Experience: Ryu takes this no doubt.

Zack 6/10



oh a better picture of Zack

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z156/DiffidentAngel/Zack_Fair_by_Tidus902000.jpg

It would be a very close fight, but I'm giving it to Zack because he has the edge in strength.

Originally posted by Remindme
Zack 6/10



oh a better picture of Zack

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z156/DiffidentAngel/Zack_Fair_by_Tidus902000.jpg No that isn't. ><

Originally posted by Sado-sama
No that isn't. >< ??? ugh, yes it is

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
It would be a very close fight, but I'm giving it to Zack because he has the edge in strength. But he doesn't.

Ryu has fiend blood in him. 131

I think Zack has Jenova cells (which increase strength...).

They both lift big-ass metalllic swords with relative ease. They're strength is about the same.

Except he does. When Ryu uses the big sword in NG he is slow as piss. Zack weilds the Buster sword as fast as Ryu uses his katana. That means Zack has more strength.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Except he does. When Ryu uses the big sword in NG he is slow as piss. Zack weilds the Buster sword as fast as Ryu uses his katana. That means Zack has more strength. I haven't seen Zack do that with the Buster Sword.

Can you show me?

Watch LO or play CC. Zack wields the Buster Sword like it weighs 2 pounds.

Yet we don't know how much the Buster Sword weighs.

And for the record Ryu has sliced through thick metal as opposed to a bullet.

Originally posted by Sado-sama
Yet we don't know how much the Buster Sword weighs.

Are you suggesting it's light??

Originally posted by Remindme
Are you suggesting it's light?? No, but I don't get why people are so eager to say Zack is in fact stronger than Hayabusa when it's apparently better to say they're strength is close (with either one being probably a bit stronger).

Ryu with a katana sliced a jet in half like it was butter.

We know that none of the ShinRa troops in LO could even pick it up from where Zack stuck it in the ground. Its quite heavy.



I'm pretty sure that was a magic sword though. Zack does all of his feats with a sharpened hunk of sheet metal and his own strength.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
We know that none of the ShinRa troops in LO could even pick it up from where Zack stuck it in the ground. Its quite heavy.



I'm pretty sure that was a magic sword though. Zack does all of his feats with a sharpened hunk of sheet metal and his own strength. 1. And "STUCK" in the ground.

2. Magic? It's not magic without the jewel, which makes it the TDS.

1. It was in loose dirt, the scene was showing the weight of the Buster Sword. In fact it was in the ground only from Zack letting go of it, its immense weight is what put it there.

2. It's still not just a normal blade.

Look, the fact is that Zack is stronger than Ryu. That is a fact, not something to try to argue.

Lol, no it isn't a fact. haermm

And the Dragon Sword has only properties that makes it effective against evil, primarily with the eye jewel. Technically the sword is carved out of the metallic bones of an ancient dragon, and for the record, not only has Hayabusa sliced an aircraft, he was stated to be much more powerful than a human, and to back that up he slices fiends that originate from molten rock.

How can you be so blind? We have a direct comparison for God's sake. When Ryu hefts a sword that is about the size of the Buster Sword(actually a bit smaller) he has to put a lot of strength into it and is extremely slow. When Zack uses a slightly bigger blade, he is doing it extremely fast, like Ryu does with his small, light sword.

Zack has more strength, that's a fact, we have a perfect example proving it. Until you can accept the facts there's no point in debating with you.

He doesn't wield the Dabahilaro slowly.

He uses the big sword extremely slow, its so bad that no one I know who plays NG ever uses it, because its too slow.

It's one of my favorite weapons, it's not slow at all.

Is that the big one? Its ridiculously slow if we're talking about the same weapon. Post a pic of it.

Originally posted by Remindme
Zack 6/10



oh a better picture of Zack

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z156/DiffidentAngel/Zack_Fair_by_Tidus902000.jpg

Why do you do this to me?sad

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
He uses the big sword extremely slow, its so bad that no one I know who plays NG ever uses it, because its too slow.

That explains why the Ninja Gaiden community are highly pissed it not making it into Ninja Gaiden 2.

Also no. Zack moves his sword slow compared to Ryubusa. Zack pulls off one to two maybe three hits. At the most. Ryu on the other hands pull off 5 to 6 i think 7 hit combos with that big sword.

So no.

Ryu overpowered fiends and greater fiends and can pop off heads with a staff. That takes strength

Ryu is around the same strength as zack. More or less. Just as Zack is around the same strength as ryu. More or less.

Excpet for the fact that most of them aren't pissed. In fact the reason they took it out was because it was useless.



This proves you know nothing of Zack. Please stop pulling facts out of thin air. Zack hits with much speed, and if he doesn't hit you more than once its because he killed you with his first hit.



No, Ryu is faster than Zack, but Zac is inarguably stronger than Ryu. We have definitive proof for it.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Excpet for the fact that most of them aren't pissed. In fact the reason they took it out was because it was useless.



This proves you know nothing of Zack. Please stop pulling facts out of thin air. Zack hits with much speed, and if he doesn't hit you more than once its because he killed you with his first hit.



No, Ryu is faster than Zack, but Zac is inarguably stronger than Ryu. We have definitive proof for it.

Go to some of the repectable NB and RYubusa forums and communities and you will see the Ratio. Team Ninja has recieved countless complaits about them taking the sword out. And peititions for them to put it back in.

Its not a fact. Show me a clip of Zack pulling off more than a 3 hit combo. And where was all that one hit strike with sephiroth or genesis. And if you dont relise that Zack always runs building up momentum to swing his blade. Ryu has been shown doing multiple hit combos and versitlity with D.Blade. So Ryu and Zack are near eachother in strength. More or less. Unless you provide proof where zack benches tons, squats, tons, and shiz out tons. Then you cant really say Zack is inargubly stronger than Ryu. You dont have definite proof. All you have is him swing a sword same as Ryu. There is more evidence pointing out that Ryubusa is stronger than Zack. Than Zack is stronger than Ryubusa.

Oh also. NG II Ryu is faster. If you look at the clips. Ryu is shiz load faster. Specialy with his dash. But i think he does gets faster. IMO.

Ryubusa 8/10 with the more I think about Ryu's ability.

1. Fanboys and purists never want things to be removed from sequels, no matter how useless they are. Most people, however, didn't use it. I don't know a single person who played NG and liked the thing.

2. Three words for you, 8 flashing blades. One of Zack's signature moves is an extremely quick 8 hit combo powered up by spirit energy. Zack hits with plenty of combo's, even a trailer of CC will show you that. In fact, he can do a three hit combo on someone before Ryu could aswing his big sword once. Just accept it, he isn't as strong.

3. I never said Zack was faster, just that he had more raw strength. That's a fact.

1. You just purely stating now. The D.blade was usuefull and fast. Not just pure fanboyism. Just because you dont know a sinle person who uses it, doesnt mean alot of people dont use it.

2. So he needs a super signature move to swing around his sword. Thats nice. He was poweed by spiritial energy. Ryu almost matched that number using just his physcal strength. And thanks for your opinion
Strength: Ryu =/= Zack. And Ryubusa.

3. That wasnt to you. That was to someone else who said Ryu doesnt get faster.

Also Zack being stronger than Ryu. Thats pure your opinion. You stated yourself he had to spiritally empower himself to swing his blade up to times to match Ryu wing his D.Blade 5-7 timesd with his own natural strength. Right there yo defeated your own argument about Zack being naturally physically stronger than ryubusa.

Again ryu win none the less.

1. It obviously was useless enough to be removed from NG 2 forbeing useless. That fact alone proves my point.

2. No, he uses a regular signature move to use one attack. Zack is stronger than Ryu, you can't argue this as its a proven fact.

As you can see, it would be a close fight but Zack has the edge because he is stronger. Until you can accept the facts I'm not going to debate with you.

1. Just a desicion made by the creatures to put in even better weapons. That fact proved nothing.

2. You yourself stated he spiritially empowered himself for the move. So no. Its not a fact. Stop contradicting yourself and going back on what you said.

But now for some quick off the top of the head Strength Feats for Ryu

Cutting Throw a fighter Jet with metallic bone.
Fighting bear hands a giant man spider that could have been one of Final Fantasy boses. Over powering it and beating it.
Over powering a demon. Doku to be exact.
Weilding the D.Blade swing it fast and fluently 5-7 times under his own strength. Not spiritially empowered unlike Zack. As you stated.
Cutting through a Dragon who has dragons scales that are strong enough to live in Liquid Hot magma w/o the TDS. Just his Dragon Sword which is not spiritally empowered.
Slicing through a man covered in inches of Hard steel body armor.
Slicing throw another sword in mid air. It takes strength and skill to do that I might add.

Baron Spider which was a giant humoid spider one roids. It fought it bare handed. Overpowered and one. Thats a better strength feat than tossing around a sheet of metal as you stated.

But either way Ryu wins

Zack has no advantages. Their strength is similiar. More or less. But not by alot.

Lets break this down.

Swordplay and Skill: Ryu takes with ease. Why Ryu has not only demostrated mastery with his sword but mastery as well with staffs, arrows, kunais, windmill shurikens, shurikens, Halberds, nun-chucks, doubled Bladed arts. In NGII your going to see even a bigger master. Tafons, The Scythe and Claws. So its pretty obvious Ryubusa is way more skilled by leaps and bounds Than Zack.

Speed/agility.: Ryu has demostrated how agile and fast he is and has shown not to loose speed in combat as other faster people. ryubusa Should take this category aswell.

Strength.: As i said. Its a toss up. Both have impressive strength feats. Either one can take this category.

Endurance: I have to say Ryubusa. Why Zack as shown in OVA got tired after a few minute fight with Sephiroth. Also was shown tired fighting off Shinra low rank soldeirs. Also Ryu was survived a 200 story fall and got up like it was nothing.

Magic: Ryu seems to be more skilled in what he has and seems to make better use of it and is of himself. Zack doesnt really show much use of it. And its not of his own.

Energy/Spirital energy.: I have to give this to Ryu once again. Zack energy has only been shown to throw a beam blade and empower him to swing a giant sword around 8 times fast. Ryu spirital energy has been showed to vaporise battleships in a instant

So despite your trying to say a character is stronger than another. The character your arguing for looses in a big slump.

Oh Christ, it's obvious you too are so willing to try to convince each other that the character you're supporting is stronger. Just agree that they're on about the same level.

Facist, did you read my comment earlier about Ryu being able to slice fiends who reside in magma? Their durability is high enough that they're able to reside in lava for weeks or even months. The lava dragon in Ninja Gaiden has been living under a lava pool for maybe in centuries. You're trying to use the assumption that since the Buster Sword is heavier than the Dabilahro, and that since Zack wields it with more ease he's stronger, when:

Ryu can pull off a six hit combo with it in under 2.5 seconds, with 4 of those hits being done with one hand only. HuTJ1QjQ9Jk---

After watching the end of this video, Zack doesn't seem to have more strength wielding his sword, and this was at his very prime or right before he died.gx3CEr-gFJc
I think we're better off saying they're around equal in strength. For the record Ryu also has the feat of slicing material that can withstand molten rock easily, why argue it's a fact Zack's stronger than? Heck, do you even know what a fact is?

Can you show me proof of Ryu displaying greater speed then someone dodging machine gun fire by many multiple men?

Originally posted by Terryc250
Can you show me proof of Ryu displaying greater speed then someone dodging machine gun fire by many multiple men?

Doa4 ending. Flipping through gatling gun fire from multiple air ships along with missles. Man-held gatling guns shit on Assult rifle fire. Air craft gun fire shit on man held gatling guns. And air craft gatling guns sshit on regular air craft machine guns. And Ryu did a balareina dance through it all.

Got Vid?

Go to youtube and look up DOA4 Ryu Hayabusa ending. I would embedded it. But i dont know how. I am a Failure.

ive seen that ending and it wasnt really that impressive speed, everyone says his speed is faster then zacks, but i have yet to see a video of ryu hayabusa faster then this, without ninpo:

F8-IgDSDWoI

Watch from 4:50 .. he basically sees bullets in slow motion

Which is why Ryu hayabusa needs a more current anime or Manga

Originally posted by Csdabest
Endurance: I have to say Ryubusa. Why Zack as shown in OVA got tired after a few minute fight with Sephiroth.

That fight is not cannon anymore. Zack(and Sephiroth) is much better in the fight of CC(the new cannon).



IIRC, those Shinra low rank soldiers were an entire army, using machine guns, granade-launchers, and helicopters. Zack fought all of them in the same time, and he killed almost everyone(with exception of three guys).

Originally posted by SHM
That fight is not cannon anymore. Zack(and Sephiroth) is much better in the fight of CC(the new cannon).



IIRC, those Shinra low rank soldiers were an entire army, using machine guns, granade-launchers, and helicopters. Zack fought all of them in the same time, and he killed almost everyone(with exception of three guys).

Says who. It was an OVA adaption. The CC condition just let you play through the fight. So of cours its going to be longer. It still he either got tired till he couldnt old his own or sephiroth seriously wtf owned him. Which i doubt the second out come is true.

Where did you see the whole army. It was a platoon or several squads. He still got fatiqued and and couldnt take all of them. Or else he'd still be tired. He never fought the helicopter. It was only there for intell to send back. And where did you see Grenade launchers?

Ryubusa on the other hand took on the whole virgoorian empie army crippeling them while at the same time taking on A whole legion of feind/demons . While taking on multile greater fiends such as Alma and her awakened form, doku and his spirit form, basicly the devilmarbus, th field VE with the dark dragon blade, The twin sister of Chaos an Destrucion, and fighting The Dark Decilple and still succeeded. So endurance wise Ryubusa takes it easily. Also falling from 200 stories and getting up like it was nothing. feind or not he still did. All in 3-4 day spand by himself.

So its easy to say that Ryu has better endurance.

^show me the vids plz

Lazy lazy people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPTXKCrP8R4
As you see he takes on three air craft as is able to dismantle two of them with a sword. well one. I dont know how he blew the other one. But he had to catch up and get on them. as you know air crafts are fast as shiz. And in the end he flips through missles and direct gatling fire from the air craft.

Originally posted by Terryc250
ive seen that ending and it wasnt really that impressive speed, everyone says his speed is faster then zacks, but i have yet to see a video of ryu hayabusa faster then this, without ninpo:

F8-IgDSDWoI

Watch from 4:50 .. he basically sees bullets in slow motion Awesome.

By the way you do know that seeing bullets in slow motion shows reaction time (like MC who sees bullets in slow motion) not speed. However, Zack's speed is phenomenal.

Secondly everything Ryu did in the DOA4 ending was without ninpo. His jumping, running speed and acrobatics/energy blast was done with his physical abilities and spiritual energy (or ki).

And it seems everyone's forgetting Ryu has the Kitetsu in this fight according to the opening post. That weapon is so deadly he can literally split it into two demonic blades and use it like a boomerang. It also drains souls.

If said character was armed with a katana I'd lean much less towards my initial vote.

Just imagine what type of speed feats you'd see from Ryubusa if he had his own current ova,manga and or anime. He would not be beaten by anything less than a cosmic being

'Mkay, I believe an FF7 versus DOA/Ninja Gaiden war on KMC has occurred last year and it was around the time I joined. Can I not see another Ryu Hayabusa versus topic again?

Next thing I know tomorrow morning I'll see a Ryu Hayabusa versus Chaos or Ryu Hayabusa versus Sephiroth thread.

Sephy and Ryu is a good fight. Just Ryu cant fly.

For the record the shinra soldiers not being able to lift the buster sword accounts for nothing because they are cannon fodder.

Cloud's striking speed did not increase when he used smaller blades in Advent Children. Makes me wonder if the weight of the swords really has anything to do with how fast the SOLDIERs strike.

Grunts who met physical fitness requirements for the army with military training.



No, it just means Cloud is strong enough to swing even his largest sword at top speed.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Grunts who met physical fitness requirements for the army with military training.



No, it just means Cloud is strong enough to swing even his largest sword at top speed.

Where are you getting your information from.

FFVII and its compilation and UOGs.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Just imagine what type of speed feats you'd see from Ryubusa if he had his own current ova,manga and or anime. He would not be beaten by anything less than a cosmic being LOL NO.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Says who. It was an OVA adaption. The CC condition just let you play through the fight. So of cours its going to be longer. It still he either got tired till he couldnt old his own or sephiroth seriously wtf owned him. Which i doubt the second out come is true.

In the CC fight, Sephiroth used different attacks, the dialogue is different, the end of the fight(with Cloud) is different, etc. The Nibelheim Incident of LO was retconned, forget about it.

And Zack didn't fight against the entire army of Shinra of course, but it was still an army(shooting missiles against him with their Grenade Launchers). Zack killed everyone with exception of three guys.

Again where did you see Grenade launchers and missles.

Im okay with Lost order part but that still doesnt show where you get missles and grenade launches from.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Again where did you see Grenade launchers and missles.

Im okay with Lost order part but that still doesnt show where you get missles and grenade launches from.

I got it from the battle. They are allways shooting missiles against you, that's just a fact.

Clip please. I tried looking for it myself but couldnt find it. I doubt you played it yourself either seeing it hasnt been released in english. So there must be a clip.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Clip please. I tried looking for it myself but couldnt find it. I doubt you played it yourself either seeing it hasnt been released in english. So there must be a clip.

I could have imported it.


Here is a clip:

http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=7dbz79QFCTA&feature=related

Watching it again, I saw that the missiles were coming from the helicopters, not the soldiers. But that's just a detail.

I take back my comment about there being no missles now. Fux that I see nothing x_x