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Who would win? Does The Emperor have what it takes to kill the unkillable?

Yes. Sidious wtf pwns sion. Sion was never stated to be "immortal" i believe, he himself stated that only on malachor is he able to keep fighting due to the immense dark side energies and even if this took place on malachor whats to keep sidious from using the dark side energies itself for his own benefit?

Sidious has NO CHANCE....

































































At losing this.

Was it really necessary to take up some much space?

Yes. Might as well, this is pretty much a joke thread.

sidious isn't the strongest sith but definately could beat sion, now revan versus sidious, theres one sidous would lose

I thought it was official that Sidious was the most powerful Sith.

Originally posted by The big EH
sidious isn't the strongest sith but definately could beat sion, now revan versus sidious, theres one sidous would lose

I'll make this short since this same old discussion has been done before .

First of Revan's most powerful form is the lightside (canon) jedi at the end of kotor. Malak says he was more powerful as a jedi than as Darth Revan And Yoda was stated in the revenge of the sith novel to be the "most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known"

exact quote fromt he revenge of the sith novel is

Yoda who was the most powerful jedi ever up until that point. So that alone puts Yoda above Revan. And Yoda could not defeat ROTS Sidious and by DE Sidious is more powerful than he was in Revenge of the Sith. Sidious>Revan

Funny. I'd give this to Darth Sion myself. His ability to cheat death indicates an enormous level of power, and it's something that was -as far as we know- completely exclusive to Sion. Sidious certainly wasn't able to physically cheat death. Nothing indicates that Sidious would be able to bypass the ability. Sion ftw!

Hey, Nebaris.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Funny. I'd give this to Darth Sion myself. His ability to cheat death indicates an enormous level of power,

Supposition and speculation. Prove that Sion's "immortality" (which is hardly infallible since he died) is indicative of "enormous level of power" -- perhaps willpower (which is irrelevant when in combat against a Force user of Palpatine's caliber) -- since Sion has demonstrated no destructive Force energies or prowess outside of this one particular trait that might make him anything special. Hell, the other powerhouse of the era, Nihilus, who has demonstrated a remarkable level of Force usage, was far from being "immortal" and yet in the cut content, he was able to subdue and overpower Sion without any difficulty, albeit he was unable to kill him. Much like on Heroes, Claire Bennet is gifted with cellular regeneration on such a level that she is truly "invincible" and yet she's easily subdued and outmatched by Sylar, who is very much mortal. He might not have invincibility, but his power is well in excess of hers. Same for Sidious.



As already proven, Sion's psuedo-immortality isn't necessarily indicative of power. This is irrelevant.



In conclusion, no, this line of thought is irrevocably false. Sion is facing an opponent whose power, knowledge, and overall prowess is well in excess of his own. As for his immortality, assuming Sidious doesn't use the Force to vegetate Sion or keep KO'ing him from here to eternity, or even -- since you seem to enjoy supposition and speculation -- possess Sion outright, he could always break Sion's will, being a master of Dun Moch and a peerless manipulator of others.

Or he could TK him to outer space.

Originally posted by The big EH
sidious isn't the strongest sith but definately could beat sion, now revan versus sidious, theres one sidous would lose Uh yes sidious is. TNEC DESB stated sidious > revan and sion, and the dark empire comics actually SHOWS sidious being the most powerful sith lord in history.


Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Funny. I'd give this to Darth Sion myself. His ability to cheat death indicates an enormous level of power, and it's something that was -as far as we know- completely exclusive to Sion. Sidious certainly wasn't able to physically cheat death. Nothing indicates that Sidious would be able to bypass the ability. Sion ftw! How i forgot, sion himself stated that the ability to keep on fighting is only avalible at planets deeply immersed in the dark side of the force, and places where any dark sider would be at an advantage, even sidious and along with the fact that he(sion) is fighting some one who posess greater knowledge of the force and fighting an opponent whom is highly resourceful

Reported

Originally posted by Gideon
Supposition and speculation.

Supposition and speculation? Wow, that's not only nonsensical, but it doesn't even make sense!

In all seriousness, it's not speculation. Sion possessed wounds that should essentially be killing him, yet he lives, and he outright claims to the Exile that he can be struck down a hundred times yet still rise. Not only is Darth Sion in a position to know of such a thing and not lie about it, but this is the game's way of setting up how great a threat Sion was to further add to the drama and hopelessness of the story.



Immortality? Immortality is essentially the act of not aging, and being unable to die. Sion is essentially actively keeping himself alive and cheating death. Nothing suggest he doesn't age. You're confusing the word 'immortality' with 'invincibility' here, Gideon, not that it matter anyway.



Wow, so you're going to attempt to undermine his ability by using evidence of what happens when he actively chooses to stop using it? Astonishing.



Wow, so you're gonna argue that someone who wasn't extremely powerful with the force can achieve something so phenomenal with it that no one else was able to? Your question is ludicrous, and very one-sided. You won't see me asking you to prove that Palpatine's Force Storms are indicative of his power, would you? No, you wouldn't, because it's so damn obvious that the proof isn't really required. Fact is, Sion was able to achieve what no one else has been able to, and his ability makes him near unstoppable in a battle scenario. To achieve remarkable feats that no on else has been able to with the force would suggest to anyone who actually possesses a brain that his ability to wield the force is obviously quite adept.

You wanna argue that it's all down to willpower? Not only is it your burden of proof, given that you're asserting it, but even if it were the case, why exactly would that not apply in other areas of force use? In KotOR, Revan, when asked for a description of the force by a Rakatan on Lehon, actually outright claims that those with a high enough willpower should be able to bend the force completely to their will. Numerous descriptions on "willpower" as a gameplay statistic outright claim that it has a direct effect on power (as in potency). Sidious himself was championed as having an extremely great willpower, and his most powerful technique, the force storm, by its own description, draws heavily on the user's willpower. Fact is, willpower has an extremely large effect on one's ability with the force so it wouldn't even matter if Sion's ability speaks purely for his willpower



Absence of proof is not proof of absence. Provide proof of necessity, or drop the point. As long as Sion hasn't needed to display such, the fact that he doesn't relates in no way to his ability to do so. Sion appears in a few scenes within a Video Game FFS!



Prowess? Not only was he championed as the head of a sect of Sith Assassins, but he displays a phenomenal level of dexterity when slicing off Kreia's hand in one move. If tha's not prowess, I don't know what is.



1. Goes to show that even against more powerful opponents, his ability truly does provide an enormous advantage.

2. Nihilus is a cosmic being. Being overpowered by him doesn't not make you a powerhouse. His mere presence tangibly effects those around him, he was able to consume the life on an entire planet, and his awareness is on a planetary level. Sidious wouldn't do any better, he'd do worse actually, and die.



That analogy is completely off. Sion, like all force users, is able to manipulate a power source for a number of different uses. His ability to cheat death, and all his other abilities, draw power from the same source. Claire has access to one ability...



Un-proven, as it stands.



Line of thought? I just stated two straight facts. No line of thought in that part of my post, you'll find, Gideon.



Unsupported.



...





Lol.

Nothing indicates that Sidious has that kind of power over Sion. Assuming that Sidious wouldn't be able to do those things would be the logical stance. Assuming that he could would be silly.



...





Lol.

Nothing indicates that Sidious has that kind of power over Sion. Assuming that Sidious wouldn't be able to do those things would be the logical stance. Assuming that he could would be silly.



That easy, huh? Being a Master of Dun Moch alone doesn't mean that he'll be able to just make someone give up the will to keep fighting, and his manipulations have only ever shown to be successful when he plays them out nice and long, and doesn't rush anything. It would be ridiculous to assume that his manipulations would help him in a fast paced battle scenario, when nothing indicates it. As for Sion, he doesn't automatically have a small willpower simply because he lost it, one time, under very specific circumstances. The fact that Kreia cared for the Exile more than she did for Sion is what made him give up the will to live. The same does not apply with Sidious, and given that he doesn't have any personal bond with Sion or Kreia that would enable him to exploit his weakness, and given that nothing indicates that Sidious' manipulative ability would be helpful in a one-on-one fast paced battle scenario (certainly doesn't happen in any of his battle featured in Canon), it's ridiculous to assume such.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
How i forgot, sion himself stated that the ability to keep on fighting is only avalible at planets deeply immersed in the dark side of the force, and places where any dark sider would be at an advantage, even sidious and along with the fact that he(sion) is fighting some one who posess greater knowledge of the force and fighting an opponent whom is highly resourceful

Mostly unsupported, and the bit about Sion only being able to fight on darkside immersed worlds? I call bullshit. He's seen fighting on a Republic Ship in Outer Space in a hologram.



What for?

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Mostly unsupported, and the bit about Sion only being able to fight on darkside immersed worlds? I call bullshit. He's seen fighting on a Republic Ship in Outer Space in a hologram.
I never said that idiot, i said he stated that only on worlds which are deeply immersed in the dark side of the force where he is capable of fully using his "immortality" whereas the capability of not being able to fall so easily

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

What for? For being the sock of nebaris, The way you structure your sentences, your constant down playment of sidious, your grammer pretty much indicates that you ARE nebaris

EDIT double post

Originally posted by GahLakTus
I never said that idiot, i said he stated that only on worlds which are deeply immersed in the dark side of the force where he is capable of fully using his "immortality" whereas the capability of not being able to fall so easily

Your exact words were 'keep on fighting.' It's not my fault you're not able to properly convey your thoughts into words.



Well clearly you're over paranoid, because I'm not nebaris.

We also have zero proof of Sion managing to make it through decapitation, loss of limbs....

This 'Sion is unkillable' stuff focuses on gameplay mechanics alone. Slashed, shot up? Sure. How about if Palpatine cuts Sion in half? Takes his head off? How exactly will Sion beat that? This is plain silly.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Supposition and speculation? Wow, that's not only nonsensical, but it doesn't even make sense!

Straight from Dictionary.com:



...They're pretty much the same thing. Dictionary.com lists them as synonyms. So, essentially, what I said was redundant but not nonsensical. Kind've like your statement: "Wow, that's not only nonsensical, but it doesn't even make sense!"



Pitiful reasoning. Sion's claims are just that -- claims -- and you expecting me to adhere to them based on the conclusion that "he's not in a position to lie!" (which is hilarious, since Sion is a Sith Lord and is thus deceitful by nature) and that he "knows such things!" without supporting it is ridiculous. Suffice it to say that things aren't fact because you state them, Nebaris, and if you want me to take your reasoning seriously, you'll do me the favor of proving it to be so.



This is irrelevant. Dictionary.com defines immortality as "endless life" and invincible as "incapable of being conquered, defeated, or subdued". In this case, Sion was neither, so in truth, he was neither immortal or invincible.



He was manipulated into such an action by the Exile. Based on all canon evidence, it is highly reasonable to assume that Palpatine could do the same. You disagreeing is astonishing.



That's right. You're basing this off of the unsupported assumption that Sion had to be "uber" with the Force to become psuedo-immortal/invincible. However, Sion hasn't demonstrated anything approaching the Emperor's level of Force mastery, so for all we know, his psuedo-immortality/invincibility was achieved through an application of willpower, rage, and Force power. Kind've like how Palpatine's Force Storm (which dwarfs anything destructive on Sion's part) was an application of knowledge, willpower, and Force power.



Sadly, it would. Willpower =/= massive Force power in all areas. Leia Organa Solo was able to resist the Empire's interrogation techniques and those of Darth Vader himself. Where is her upper tier demonstration of Force power, then? She doesn't have any. Her connection to the Force is mighty, but it doesn't do her any good. She's still not an upper tier Force user or combatant, despite having a connection to the Force that outstrips... what... 99% of the SW mythos? Your assertion that willpower = talent in all areas of the Force is ridiculous.



Absence of proof is not proof of absence? H'okay.



Lmao. You're fellating him because he cut off a Sith historian's hand and was the head of a bunch of weak-ass Sith assassins? So far, he's not stacking up against Darth Maul -- let alone Palpatine.



An enormous advantage? Hahaha. He got back up and... left. Like a b1tch who had just been whipped by a newspaper. What advantage? What was he going to do, exactly?



Prove it. Palpatine was also, by the way, able to consume life on a planetary level, that he did it over the course of years to prolong his lifespan demonstrates a much more profound control over it than Nihilus.



Sadly, the analogy isn't. You've only proven that Sion is adept in only one "major" technique, his psuedo-immortality/invincibility.



You're right. Your stance is "unproven, as it stands".



Facts are statements of truth. Your assumptions don't qualify.

Sorry, but no. Palpatine has demonstrated speed, strength, experience, and knowledge on numerous occasions that vastly outstrip Sion's own. His power? Would we really need to go into detail? Likewise, I can always use the quotes from canon sources. Like it or not, Nebaris, this route has been closed off for you.



It applies. Psuedo-immortality.



"Absence of proof is not proof of absence. Provide proof of necessity, or drop the point. As long as Sidious hasn't needed to display such, the fact that he doesn't relates in no way to his ability to do so."



Redundant, but applies.



"Absence of proof is not proof of absence. Provide proof of necessity, or drop the point. As long as Sidious hasn't needed to display such, the fact that he doesn't relates in no way to his ability to do so."



Sorry, but no. Palpatine's the unquestioned manipulator of the SW mythos. Manipulating your sworn enemy for years while sitting in the very same room as you? Manipulating a galactic-spanning institution into giving you supreme power? Turning the being destined to destroy you into your ***** for twenty years? Tempting his son to join the dark side? Manipulating the Bothan Spynet? I could go on and on and on and on. Sad fact of the matter that Palpatine is more than capable of manipulating Sion into giving up his psuedo-immortality/invincibility after he gets tired of kicking the shit out of him all over the environment.

Assuming you're not banned, Nebaris, I'll talk to you later.

I would like to say that the thing Sidious did to Byss I think it was, is much different than what Nihilus does.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Your exact words were 'keep on fighting.' It's not my fault you're not able to properly convey your thoughts into words. No, its you are unable to comprehend what i just typed, i said the so called "immortality" he has only takes place on dark side empowered worlds as he himself stated, something which you fail to acknowledge


Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Well clearly you're grammer, your bias, your down playment of canon says other wise, no 2 person in the universe is alike

Originally posted by Gideon
Palpatine was also, by the way, able to consume life on a planetary level, that he did it over the course of years to prolong his lifespan demonstrates a much more profound control over it than Nihilus.
The "motives" of Nihilus were actually different from that of Sidious when he decided to drain an entire planet.

Nihilus wanted to feed on the massive amount of energies that he would get by draining all the Force sensitives in that world. His terrible hunger was the driving force behind this, so he drained an entire planet quickly.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The "motives" of Nihilus were actually different from that of Sidious when he decided to drain an entire planet.

Nihilus wanted to feed on the massive amount of energies that he would get by draining all the Force sensitives in that world. His terrible hunger was the driving force behind this, so he drained an entire planet quickly. Legend, nihilus doesn't "drain" the lives of others like sidious or malak does, it is completely different.

What he does is he breaks the bond between his victims and the force which kills them instantly, then he feeds upon the death it causes.

The exile too feeds on the death she caused according to the jedi masters

Oh and nihilus didnt drain the planet itself but what was on the planet.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Legend, nihilus doesn't "drain" the lives of others like sidious or malak does, it is completely different.

What he does is he breaks the bond between his victims and the force which kills them instantly, then he feeds upon the death it causes.

The exile too feeds on the death she caused according to the jedi masters

Oh and nihilus didnt drain the planet itself but what was on the planet.

Originally posted by Gideon
Straight from Dictionary.com:

...They're pretty much the same thing. Dictionary.com lists them as synonyms. So, essentially, what I said was redundant but not nonsensical.

It was nonsensical in the sense that the "and" indicates a difference in meaning, when there is none there between the two synonyms. Not that it matters, honest mistake.



LOL...

Gideon, I was quite clearly joking when I said that, in mock response to what you had just said. Seriously, thought that was obvious. It's why I stated "In all seriousness" directly afterwards.



Firstly, I'll take note that you ignored all of this:

Sion possessed wounds that should essentially be killing him, yet he lives,

but this is the game's way of setting up how great a threat Sion was to further add to the drama and hopelessness of the story.

Try to get to it, if you can.

Secondly, your assertion that Sion is deceitful by nature simply because he is a Sith is what you'd call a False Association Fallacy. You can't just attribute him characteristics that simply belong to a collective group that Sion belongs to. As for whether or not he'd lie in such a position, there would only be one reason to lie in such a position in that respect, and that would be to demoralise The Exile (I mean, you're not gonna argue that he'd be trying to impress her are you?). Given that the claim follows Sion rising up each time after being struck down by the Exile, and that the claim wasn't really adding on any extra information that would demoralise The Exile, there would be no such value for the claim, if it were to be a lie.

Thirdly, how exactly would Sion not be in a position to know? You honestly don't think he would have tested the ability one time, before making such claims?

But again, arguing over Sion's credibility itself is silly, given that what he claims is the Game's way of giving us, the players, information about the storyline. What you need to understand, with literature, is that when there is no plausible method of conveying pure thought or fact through words, fallible third party claims, as long as there is no reason to suggest that they're inaccurate, are pretty much as good as words coming from the Omniscient Narrator.



Naturally, he was neither, that is correct, but the ability itself granted him invincibility. The fact that he could "turn it off" so to speak doesn't detract from the ability itself, it simply means he has control over it.



That makes his mental state fallible, not the ability itself, which is what I was getting at. You can't label the ability itself fallible by using evidence of what happens to Sion when he stops using it, is my point.

And no, that's not highly reasonable, as already explained. Palpatine's manipulative ability isn't infallible, and manipulations by their very nature generally only work at their best if you manipulate a subject over a long period of time.



To argue exactly what proportion of hate, willpower, and force ability that Sion possessed that granted him the ability to develop such an ability is purely speculation, true, so we might as well not, though given that force ability is what actually enables force users to manipulate the energy around them (whereas hate, and willpower, and other such abilities play more heavily on the mental demands behind the execution of the force), it can be logically assumed that force ability plays the most important part. No matter what way you look at it, cheating death with the force is clearly requiring some great strength with the force, and heavy mastery.

Also, the fundamental point that you're missing is that his ability speaks heavily for attributes that can be channelled into other abilities. Willpower? Already been elaborated on. Hate and anger? Numerous sources make them out as being heavy attributes when it comes to truly mastering the darkside. The Darkside Compendium for one, where Darth Sidious labels it as one of the primary attributes that enable him to summon force Storms. Force ability? no explanation required.



You're referring to Leia when she was mostly untrained. Of course willpower wouldn't factor in on force ability if you don't really know how to use it. Just like how it wouldn't apply if you have no connection to the force. It simply factors in on force ability. Leia virtually had none. Virtually nothing to factor in on. What she's doing, is not actually a force ability, but simply using her mind to resist mental applications of the force.

As I've already said, pure force ability would always be the primary attribute when using the force, but willpower, according to several sources, plays a heavy part to. Willpower, when it comes to force use, is essentially how well you can mentally handle usages of the force. This would be a factor in all force abilities. Why not for Sion? Unlike Leia, he's actually been trained with the force, and has a way in which he can apply his willpower in the certain ways you have mentioned.



Do you deny this? If Sion has no need for displaying great ability with the force, then there's no way you can consider a lack of such displays as evidence of Sidious' superiority. None.



What does the fact that Kreia is a Sith Historian have to do with anything? Her displays with the force are phenomenal, and as such it can be logically concluded that her general force ability is exceptional. Which would include pre-cog, reflexes, and speed. All of which were -for Kreia- not able to stop Sion from slicing off her hand in one move. If you're making a point of her logically not excelling in pure combat technique, well, irrelevant. She got taken out in one move. It's not like they crossed blades; technique doesn't factor in on what happened, only speed and reactions.

Weak-ass Sith assassins? Lol, can I say unsupported? There's nothing to indicate that they were weak. They were Masters of numerous styles of combat, including unarmed, so being the head of them speaks well for Sion's pure martial prowess. Not to mention (though a tad not to the point) they were Masters at cloaking themselves with the force, and well practised in Nihilus' severing ability, the greatest Sith teaching there was according to Kreia. Nothing indicates that as a collective group, they were weak.

BTW, you bring up Darth Maul. The same Darth Maul that was nearly able to take out Darth sidious in combat, hmm?

Sion Impressed me...Sidious is alot more well rounded. However, Sion only died because he lost the will to live. Sion's pain feeds his dark powers and he is in constant pain since his body should be falling apart. He's powerful...Sidious has to make him lose the will to live in order to win.

The advantage of not dying. The scene fully cements just how resistant to damage Sion really is.



Indicates more control? How? Nihilus simply had no need to prolong the inhabitant's destruction. He's shown in three different situations, however, to possess the control with the technique to use it on a single being (Sion, the Exile, Kreia). So, as far as control is concerned, Nihilus has demonstrated far more of it that Palpatine. Time itself is no indication of control. In fact, all that shows is that Sidious has never displayed the ability to take such a great amount of life in quick succession, or instantly. In other words, Nihilus has displayed both more power, and more control with his planetary scale powers. Sidious < Nihilus.

Prove what, btw? That Nihilus is a cosmic being? His planetary scale awareness, planetary scale destructive power, and the fact that his mere presence kills makes him a cosmic being. Being overpowered by a cosmic being doesn't make you weak. The rest? All stated in the game.



No, it really is. Sion, as a force user, draws power from a single source, which can be applied through a number of uses. Force users can use the force offensively, defensively, hide themselves with it, control others with it, heal others with it, and do a number of other things. Their force ability (as in the strength of their relationship with the force, and their mastery of it) factors in on all abilities. Thus, if a force User excels with one ability, it speaks for their overall ability, as well as how effectively they can use their other ability.

Claire Bennet, as a "Hero," has access to one ability, which can't be applied in any way except regrowing her cells at an enhanced rate. Her being subdued by Sylar, is simply because her one ability is useless at doing anything other than healing her.

The analogy was as false as they come.



I'm always right.



They weren't assumptions. Sidious wouldn't have to rely on cloning technology if he could truly cheat physical death. And nothing indicates that Sidious can neutralise such an ability as Sion's.



First, please don't call me Nebaris (this goes for anybody else too). Wild and constant accusations that happen to not be true are a little annoying, to say the least.

What canon quotes? Provide them or don't bring them up.

As for demonstrations, I can only repeat what I've been saying. Absence of proof is not proof of absence. Provide proof of necessity, or drop the point.



Invincibility, Gideon. Again, immortality indicates that you're not only invincible but don't age either. For instance, in Heroes which you appear to be a fan of, it's common knowledge that Claire and Kensei's ability means that they can virtually not die (it would appear removal of the head does the trick), but it's only labelled immortality (in the way that something new was being revealed) once it's revealed that he doesn't age either.



Nor is it proof of the affirmative. Nothing indicates that Sidious has that kind of power over Sion, ergo it's the logical stance to take. You can't default on the whole absence of proof thing when the burden of proof is on you. That would be what you'd call the burden of proof fallacy.

If you think the same applies for when I stated such, the difference is that both times, the burden of proof hasn't been on me, but you.



Not questioning Sidious' position there, but what you need to realise is that all the successful manipulations that you listed, were manipulations that he did over a long period of time. Manipulations, by their very nature, only work at their best when the manipulator plays things out nice and slowly. Incidentally, the one manipulation attempt that you listed that wasn't played out nice and slow (attempting to turn Luke to the darkside), was the one that failed. He also received two advantages there that he wouldn't have with Sion if he were to attempt to manipulate him. 1. He had Luke go up against someone immensely more powerful and skilled than he was. 2. He had someone else fight Luke, and was able to spend a small amount of time manipulating Luke, which he wouldn't have gained if he were to have been in combat as well.

I doubt he'd even be able to find the energy to say more than a few words in a fast paced one-on-one battle with Sion, let alone use his manipulative abilities to their fullest. Really, there's nothing to suggest that he'd be able to break Sion's will.

Fact: He wouldn't be able to gain an advantage over Sion's greatest mental weakness.

Fact: Manipulations work at their best with the luxury of time, and at their worst in fast paced battle scenarios.

Fact: Sidious has only ever been shown to successfully manipulate someone by working at it over a long period of time.

Fact: Every time he's shown to attempt to instantly manipulate someone, he's failed. Both times, against Luke.

Fact: All the evidence points to Sion's will being far greater than Luke's, and in a battle with Sion, Sidious wouldn't possess specific advantages that he actually did possess against luke, where he failed anyway.

So, to recap, your argument that Sidious would be able to break Sion's will has no real backing

Sion ftw!



I can assure you that I won't be banned, given that none of my actions have warranted it. And again, quit the name calling.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
No, its you are unable to comprehend what i just typed, i said the so called "immortality" he has only takes place on dark side empowered worlds as he himself stated, something which you fail to acknowledge

Which you stated after my reply. I can assure you, the misunderstanding is on your part, not mine. And again, I call bullshit. His "immortality" ties into his ability to keep his body together, which remains active when not on darkside immersed worlds, such as on the Ebon Hawk.





I think the word you're looking for there, little man, is "unique." Either way, it's not like I'd take your accusations seriously anyway. You hardly appear to be Mr Perceptive.

Meant the Republic Ship that The Exile and Co boarded at the start of KotOR 2. Yes, that's right, even Omega makes mistakes too.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Which you stated after my reply. I can assure you, the misunderstanding is on your part, not mine. And again, I call bullshit. His "immortality" ties into his ability to keep his body together, which remains active when not on darkside immersed worlds, such as on the Ebon Hawk. Along with the fact that on dark side worlds, he is much harder to beat, elsewhere, sidious would annihilate him




Originally posted by Ultra Omega

I think the word you're looking for there, little man, is "unique." Either way, it's not like I'd take your accusations seriously anyway. You hardly appear to be Mr Perceptive. Denials a b!tch

Oh btw

Page 109 from the Dark Empire sourcebook:

"Palpatine has risen from the dead. The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned."

Empire's End, one of the Sith spirits: "He gave up everything to the Dark Side long ago. He has become the greatest who ever lived. He is the strongest who ever lived....I say we give what he wishes."

Star Wars Insider, Kevin J. Anderson, upon asked if he ever intended his Sith to be stronger than the OT sith: "No. Exar Kun, Naga Sadow and the others are on a firmly lower tier than Emperor Palpatine."

On TFN.net, official response to the strongest Sith: "Palpatine at his peak."

Essential Chronology: "the most powerful Sith who had ever lived, Emperor Palpatine had returned from the grave."

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Wow, so you're gonna argue that someone who wasn't extremely powerful with the force can achieve something so phenomenal with it that no one else was able to?
Going by what you said , I guess bastila is a force god because of her battle meditation, something which windu has never shown to use yet despite bastila having this BM, she has been shown to be merely an average force user seeing that malak easily tooled her after she sacrifised herself to save revan
Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Fact is, Sion was able to achieve what no one else has been able to, and his ability makes him near unstoppable in a battle scenario.
I guess the fact that sidious had the entire jedi archives, holocrons and all the knowledge to himself pretty much indicates he has far greater knowledge of the force than sion does and added with the fact that sion has never shown anything remarkable with the force other than his will power keeping him alive.

Right achieving something your opponent has yet to does not necessarily mean your more powerful, lets take out the new essential guide to characters , it stated on exar kuns page that exar kuns achievement as draining the massassi and being able to survive 4000 years as a spirit topped out what sidious did as coming back from death more than once but does that mean he is more powerful than sidious? Despite the fact various sources stated sidious superiority to both kun and sion?
Originally posted by Ultra Omega

To achieve remarkable feats that no on else has been able to with the force would suggest to anyone who actually possesses a brain that his ability to wield the force is obviously quite adept.
I guess he is more powerful than nihilus and luke because "they have never demonstrated this ability". All it would take is sidious to destroy sions force bond killing him instantly as nihilus easily did to countless people.


Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Absence of proof is not proof of absence. Provide proof of necessity, or drop the point. As long as Sion hasn't needed to display such, the fact that he doesn't relates in no way to his ability to do so. Sion appears in a few scenes within a Video Game FFS!
Your the one that needs to prove up nebby, what has sion demonstrated with the force? That indicates he is an extremely powerful force user with the capabilities to even fight toe to toe against somebody superior to him in every aspect of the force?

Right from the feats sidious accomplished with the force its safe to say he beats sion comfortably.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Prowess? Not only was he championed as the head of a sect of Sith Assassins, but he displays a phenomenal level of dexterity when slicing off Kreia's hand in one move. If tha's not prowess, I don't know what is. Wow because he sliced of kreias hand when she isn't in a fighting stance it means he has demonstrated incredible combat prowess, who -oope - friggin do then i guess anakin as of ROTS is a saber god because he sliced off windu's arm in one strike while vader is another god superior to sidious seeing he killed and diced up sia lan wezz's hand before her dead body hit the floor.

Fantastic logic neb



Originally posted by Ultra Omega

2. Nihilus is a cosmic being. Being overpowered by him doesn't not make you a powerhouse. His mere presence tangibly effects those around him, he was able to consume the life on an entire planet, and his awareness is on a planetary level. Sidious wouldn't do any better, he'd do worse actually, and die. And what happens when sidious using the fallanasi technique? Nihilus wouldn't be able to sense his force bond thus not being able to do anything to it.

I guess going by your logic, sidious is superior to NJO luke because he reconnected his force connection by himself after he got blinded to the force by leia and luke, something which sion has never demonstrated the capabilities to do so. Oh right by the time of dark empire, its safe to assume sidious could just cut his connection off and then proceed to wtf pwn him seeing that weaker jedi like vrook could do this technique

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

That analogy is completely off. Sion, like all force users, is able to manipulate a power source for a number of different uses. His ability to cheat death, and all his other abilities, draw power from the same source. Claire has access to one ability... What other abilities? Hmmm

Nebaris, not to be contrary, but it seems whenever we reach a consensus you go right back to this a short time later...

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Nebaris, not to be contrary, but it seems whenever we reach a consensus you go right back to this a short time later...

Precisely. I've got no problem with Nebaris, but I do wonder why he's so desperate to get back here. I remember him telling people off for having "no lives". Going back and forth over the same issue isn't worth it.

Omega, Sidious>Nihilus, he may be my favorite SW character, but I'm not stupid enough to deny that fact.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Omega, Sidious>Nihilus, he may be my favorite SW character, but I'm not stupid enough to deny that fact.

If it makes you feel any better, Nihilus is a badass Sith Lord (though he's a poor excuse for a character).

Originally posted by Gideon
If it makes you feel any better, Nihilus is a badass Sith Lord (though he's a poor excuse for a character). Fanboyism will never let me admit that.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Fanboyism will never let me admit that.

It's because he's not portrayed very well. We have no real motivation for him outside of hunger. We have no real qualities to attribute to him. No dialogue. No background. Zilch.

Originally posted by Gideon
It's because he's not portrayed very well. We have no real motivation for him outside of hunger. We have no real qualities to attribute to him. No dialogue. No background. Zilch. That's why I say EU needs to expand on him more.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
That's why I say EU needs to expand on him more. Agreed

@ Ultra Omega

Darth Sion is good. He cheated death, which is very impressive and this is what makes him a dangerous foe.

Even than, Darth Sidious is considerably more powerful and experienced than Darth Sion.

I know that the only way to defeat Darth Sion is by eroding his will. But to do that, Darth Sidious will have to use the art of Dun Moch.

Dun Moch is actually a perfect art to use in single combat situations to confuse or demoralize or even motivate enemies. Darth Vader was adept in the art of Dun Moch and he was actually the apprentice of Darth Sidious, so we can logically deduce that Darth Sidious would also be good at using Dun Moch.

Hence it is not impossible for Darth Sidious to erode the will of Darth Sion by using the combination of Dun Moch along with over-powering him through the Force.

And during the duel, Darth Sion will eventually understand that he can't defeat Darth Sidious. So he eventually might give up.

After-all the case of his duel against Jedi Exile was also similar.

By the time he faced Jedi Exile for the second time, he realized that Jedi Exile had become tough and experienced and hence it was getting difficult for him to sub-due her in combat and Jedi Exile actually used Dun Moch on him to convince him to give up.

So what do you say?

Ultra Omega, please don't write so much. It's rather an eyesore and all you do is babble...

Keep this thread civil, gentlemen.

Now i hope the kotor comics will reveal who nihilus is and who the jedi exile is.

Maybe jarael? I have a thing for pointy ears

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
@ Ultra Omega

Darth Sion is good. He cheated death, which is very impressive and this is what makes him a dangerous foe.

Even than, Darth Sidious is considerably more powerful and experienced than Darth Sion.

I know that the only way to defeat Darth Sion is by eroding his will. But to do that, Darth Sidious will have to use the art of Dun Moch.

Dun Moch is actually a perfect art to use in single combat situations to confuse or demoralize or even motivate enemies. Darth Vader was adept in the art of Dun Moch and he was actually the apprentice of Darth Sidious, so we can logically deduce that Darth Sidious would also be good at using Dun Moch.

Hence it is not impossible for Darth Sidious to erode the will of Darth Sion by using the combination of Dun Moch along with over-powering him through the Force.

And during the duel, Darth Sion will eventually understand that he can't defeat Darth Sidious. So he eventually might give up.

After-all the case of his duel against Jedi Exile was also similar.

By the time he faced Jedi Exile for the second time, he realized that Jedi Exile had become tough and experienced and hence it was getting difficult for him to sub-due her in combat and Jedi Exile actually used Dun Moch on him to convince him to give up.

So what do you say? Or he could spam Force Lightning until Sion walks away crying.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
@ Ultra Omega

Darth Sion is good. He cheated death, which is very impressive and this is what makes him a dangerous foe.

Even than, Darth Sidious is considerably more powerful and experienced than Darth Sion.

I know that the only way to defeat Darth Sion is by eroding his will. But to do that, Darth Sidious will have to use the art of Dun Moch.

Dun Moch is actually a perfect art to use in single combat situations to confuse or demoralize or even motivate enemies. Darth Vader was adept in the art of Dun Moch and he was actually the apprentice of Darth Sidious, so we can logically deduce that Darth Sidious would also be good at using Dun Moch.

Hence it is not impossible for Darth Sidious to erode the will of Darth Sion by using the combination of Dun Moch along with over-powering him through the Force.

And during the duel, Darth Sion will eventually understand that he can't defeat Darth Sidious. So he eventually might give up.

After-all the case of his duel against Jedi Exile was also similar.

By the time he faced Jedi Exile for the second time, he realized that Jedi Exile had become tough and experienced and hence it was getting difficult for him to sub-due her in combat and Jedi Exile actually used Dun Moch on him to convince him to give up.

So what do you say?

Probably the most objective argument out of any Sidious supporter here, so good job!

But, there are two reason why I generally don't agree with your conclusion:

1. Nothing suggests that Sidious is actually more powerful than Sion in any sense.

2. Being a Master of Dun Moch is great and all, but Sion does not have an inherently weak will. He only lost the will to continue fighting because of Traya, and the fact that she cared more for her than she did for Sion. Sidious would not be able to exploit this advantage.

But, again, I can at least respect your argument; nicely done!

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Or he could spam Force Lightning until Sion walks away crying.

My turn:

Or, Sion could run up to Sidious and stab him in the heart. Sion FTW!

Oh wow, this is fun!

Originally posted by Ultra Omega


wait, I'm not getting your argument at all, how does Sion's one ability (the nature of which is far from ordinary) translate into having power on par with the likes of Sidious.

I mean, Sion may have only died in his fight with the exile because he chose to, but that doesn't change the fact that the exile would have put him down a few times before that. Doesn't that seem to indicate that he lacked any sort of martial advantage over the exile (who isn't exactly a powerhouse) and instead was relying on his ability to revive himself? I'd imagine that if the exile can put him down a few times on her own, then I don't see it being more than an afterthought for someone like Sidious.

Also, what exactly would Sion do should Sidious separate a limb from his body and TK it away?

I would actually go a step further, and say that it translates into him being a good level above Sidious.

Fact: The ability makes him unstoppable in a battle scenario.

Fact: The ability is exclusive to Sion, which indicates an exceptional level of power.

Aside from the ability, he's displayed some exceptional speed in combat, and his battle prowess can be argued as greater than Sidious', given him being the deadliest out of a group of Sith Assassin, that were stated as being Masters of all sorts of combat techniques.



Argument from personal incredulity, Logical Fallacy. You have no proof whatsoever in putting Sidious above The Exile. Not only is she made out to be an exceptional prodigy when mastering forms of combat exceptionally quickly, but her unique nature meant that she drew power from whoever she killed in battle, which was in the hundreds, indicating great power in the force.

Also, as you claim, the need to defend himself isn't really there, given that he could simply rely on his ability to protect him. Thus, constantly getting struck down doesn't make him an inherently weak duelist or anything, he just doesn't have the need that others would in defending himself.



Sion is resistant to such damage. His body remains perfectly together both after a full on Onslaught from Darth Nihilus (who is certainly more powerful than Darth Sidious) and during each cutscene that follows The Exile striking him with her lightsaber.

Also, again, nothing indicates that Sidious would be on a level above him in either battle prowess of force strength to achieve such a thing. I could just turn the question around, and it would have the same effect as your's; none. Supports your points and substantiate them, or don't bother replying.

I see Noobaris is back on this forum with his usual "ignore logic, canon, and common sense while repeating the same defeated argument continuously".

His arguement gets destroyed by the majority of us and he still insists on going on.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Fact: The ability makes him unstoppable in a battle scenario. Even tho Nihilus in cut content(which never happened only because they had a timeline to keep) easily pwned him with Force Lightning(Sidious' speciality) and had Sion walking away with sniffles about how his mommy(Traya) doesn't love him anymore and how Nihilus is a big bully? That's right.

Sidious was STATED to be THE most powerful Sith EVA!!!!

Fixed, and the fact that lightning is Sidious' speciality means nothing, given Nihilus is a good few leagues above him in force ability.



What are you talking about?



As has already been said, Nihilus is a cosmic being, and most (if not all) would get owned like Sion did. Difference is, they wouldn't get up with their body completely intact like Sion did.



No he wasn't, not in the sense that you're indicating at least, and even if that were the case, Nihilus contradicts it. He has such a level of power that he perceives the universe differently than other beings. His mere presence kills and bends beings to his will. He was able to kill the life on an entire planet in what can be perceived as very quickly and with very little effort required given the action was described as "with a word." Nihilus>>> Darth Sidious.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Fixed, and the fact that lightning is Sidious' speciality means nothing, given Nihilus is a good few leagues above him in force ability.



What are you talking about?



As has already been said, Nihilus is a cosmic being, and most (if not all) would get owned like Sion did. Difference is, they wouldn't get up with their body completely intact like Sion did.



No he wasn't, not in the sense that you're indicating at least, and even if that were the case, Nihilus contradicts it. He has such a level of power that he perceives the universe differently than other beings. His mere presence kills and bends beings to his will. He was able to kill the life on an entire planet in what can be perceived as very quickly and with very little effort required given the action was described as "with a word." Nihilus>>> Darth Sidious. 1. Okay, you are right, he used a combo of Force Lightning, Force Drain(both at the same time in fact), and then thru him while still doing both(which is really KEWL!). Even so, Sidious>Nihilus, fact.

2. Sion is a big emo pussy.

3. Lol, Nihilus let him live, he could have easily ended his "immortality".

4. Yeah, he was canonically stated in several things to be>any Sith, and even GL himself said it I believe. I would love to agree with you on this, believe me, but logic and reason prevents me.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega


I would actually go a step further, and say that it translates into him being a good level above Sidious.

Fact: The ability makes him unstoppable in a battle scenario.

Fact: The ability is exclusive to Sion, which indicates an exceptional level of power.


How does the power make him unstoppable, you never provided any proof that he could function should he simply be decapitated, or that he can somehow use this power indefinitely. Also, the power by it's nature affects only Sion himself, therefor the amount of force engeries expended can't possibly compare to Sidious using the force at a planetary scale, as Gideion said Sion's ability speaks more for his will or control of the force rather than his raw power.


Originally posted by Ultra Omega


Aside from the ability, he's displayed some exceptional speed in combat, and his battle prowess can be argued as greater than Sidious', given him being the deadliest out of a group of Sith Assassin, that were stated as being Masters of all sorts of combat techniques.



His only show of skill in combat that we see is when he hacks a hand off of Traya, who's never been shown to posses any kind of impressive ability in close quarters combat.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Argument from personal incredulity, Logical Fallacy. You have no proof whatsoever in putting Sidious above The Exile. Not only is she made out to be an exceptional prodigy when mastering forms of combat exceptionally quickly, but her unique nature meant that she drew power from whoever she killed in battle, which was in the hundreds, indicating great power in the force.


Nothing about the exile implies that she was any kind of powerhouse. At the very least she wouldn't have surpassed Yoda (stated to be the strongest jedi ever) who in turn was unable to overcome sidious.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Also, as you claim, the need to defend himself isn't really there, given that he could simply rely on his ability to protect him. Thus, constantly getting struck down doesn't make him an inherently weak duelist or anything, he just doesn't have the need that others would in defending himself.



What a load, you have no proof that he was holding back at all, in fact, considering his considerable blood lust and hate when Jedi are involved, it seems far fetched that he would hold back on anyone aside from Kreia herself.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Sion is resistant to such damage. His body remains perfectly together both after a full on Onslaught from Darth Nihilus (who is certainly more powerful than Darth Sidious) and during each cutscene that follows The Exile striking him with her lightsaber.


So, using your logic, anyone who walks out of a fight in KOTOR without looking different must posses Sion's ability, since no character's model changes after a fight. Any

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Also, again, nothing indicates that Sidious would be on a level above him in either battle prowess of force strength to achieve such a thing. I could just turn the question around, and it would have the same effect as your's; none. Supports your points and substantiate them, or don't bother replying.

Force ability: Besides being stated to be the strongest (which for most people would be enough), he's also got huge displays of force power on a planetary level

Battle prowess: He faced a team of 4 Jedi masters, all of whom were hailed as being among the best the order had ever produced, and he killed all but 1 of them.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

No he wasn't, not in the sense that you're indicating at least, and even if that were the case, Nihilus contradicts it. He has such a level of power that he perceives the universe differently than other beings. His mere presence kills and bends beings to his will. He was able to kill the life on an entire planet in what can be perceived as very quickly and with very little effort required given the action was described as "with a word." Nihilus>>> Darth Sidious.

Apparently, the New Essential Chronology, Ultimate Visual Guide, and the Dark Empire source book each have quotes indicating that Sidious is the strongest.

Throw 'Death Star' and Heritage of the Sith on that list.

Nebaris, can you STOP doing this just a short time after we reach a consensus?

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

No he wasn't, not in the sense that you're indicating at least, and even if that were the case, Nihilus contradicts it. He has such a level of power that he perceives the universe differently than other beings. His mere presence kills and bends beings to his will. He was able to kill the life on an entire planet in what can be perceived as very quickly and with very little effort required given the action was described as "with a word." Nihilus>>> Darth Sidious. Yes he was, Page 109 from the Dark Empire sourcebook:

"Palpatine has risen from the dead. The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned."

Empire's End, one of the Sith spirits: "He gave up everything to the Dark Side long ago. He has become the greatest who ever lived. He is the strongest who ever lived....I say we give what he wishes."

Star Wars Insider, Kevin J. Anderson, upon asked if he ever intended his Sith to be stronger than the OT sith: "No. Exar Kun, Naga Sadow and the others are on a firmly lower tier than Emperor Palpatine."

On TFN.net, official response to the strongest Sith: "Palpatine at his peak."

Essential Chronology: "the most powerful Sith who had ever lived, Emperor Palpatine had returned from the grave."

Now you know comics so you'll be well versed in people calling narrative hyperbole. Take into note these feats along with those quotes:

Palpatine learned a Force Storm. It is is an attack that rips apart the fabric of existence and space-time. It can do everything from create a wormhole to move a person lightyears to ravage the surface of a planet to annihilate starfleets. Palpatine uses Force lightning with enough power to kill 100 augmented Strormtroopers effortlessly. Same lightning reduced 3 dark siders strong enough to resurrect Darth Maul to charred skeletons.


His force storm is far more powerful than nihilus bond breaking ability.

Oh and what happens when sidious uses the fallanasi technique? His bond gets hidden, nihilus cannot see/sense/touch/destroy it and then sidious can just proceed to kill him

@Pwned61

I think the exile is powerful as of kotor 2 but not exactly a powerhouse seeing she killed the 3 sith lords under circumstances

Well, she certainly killed Sion and Nihilus because of circumstances, but I don't think there were any when she killed Traya.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. Okay, you are right, he used a combo of Force Lightning, Force Drain(both at the same time in fact), and then thru him while still doing both(which is really KEWL!). Even so, Sidious>Nihilus, fact.

No, it's not.



Yes, and what exactly does Traya have to do with how Nihilus overpowered him?



As unsupported as it gets. Nihilus wouldn't have been letting him live yet dish out the mega ownage that he had just dished out. He was clearly going for the kill.



No, what prevents you is popular consensus. As much is obvious. Anyway, didn't you ever stop and consider that Nihilus doesn't truly qualify as a Sith (none of the KotOR Sith Lords do)? Nowhere in canon is Revan's Order (which is essentially what the Sith Triumvirate was spawned from) shown to have been ordained by any previous Sith Lord, or shown to be anything more than simple pretenders. The fact that the "True Sith" were still around whilst the Sith Triumvirate were in power, yet had no proper alliance with them, would suggest that they were, at best, pseudo Sith. Now, prove that Nihilus qualifies as a True Sith Lord, and then supply all these canon quotes that supposedly prove that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord ever.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Well, she certainly killed Sion and Nihilus because of circumstances, but I don't think there were any when she killed Traya.

That would be correct. If anything, the Exile likely wouldn't have wanted to kill her former Mentor. Traya, however, quite clearly had no such problems, given that she wanted to know that the Exile was stronger than her so that she might have a chance against the True Sith.

Originally posted by Pwned61
How does the power make him unstoppable, you never provided any proof that he could function should he simply be decapitated, or that he can somehow use this power indefinitely.

Occam's Razor. Nihilus, he who has displayed the most destructive use of the force in the entire Mythos, unleashed a full on force onslaught onto Sion, and his entire body remained intact. The same goes with each cutscene that follows the Exile striking him down with her lightsaber.



LMAO. Ignore how concentrated the force would have to be on its target why don't you. By your logic, Dooku's lightning expends as much force energy as Palpatine's simply because the scale remains the same.



Again, as said to Gideon, pure ability means jack. Sion possessed so much speed that he was able to slice off her hand in one move. The only factors, on her part, that would prevent such a thing would be speed and reaction time, both which draw from the force, which she has been shown to possess extraordinary ability with.



Did you not read my post? Her extreme learning rate and incredible force strength (augmented by every single person she ever killed) indicates as much. The fact that she was strong enough to defeat Traya after fighting through an entire Academy of darksiders and battle droids, as well as having to beat down Sion a few good times indicates as much.



Wrong. Firstly, that statement doesn't exist, and secondly, the Exile wasn't officially a Jedi at the time. The Order had disbanded, and she was somewhat of a grey Jedi.



Please try and read my arguments properly. I didn't say he would be holding back or anything, but that defending himself wouldn't exactly be his #1 priority.



Anyone who was confirmed through dialogue to have been struck down with a lightsaber, yes. And that would be... oh, just Sion.



Not only do those statements not actually exist, but absence of proof is not proof of absence. He may display more, however he's also been in far more sources. Displaying more itself doesn't mean that he's more powerful.



Speaks nothing for his pure prowess. It was his speed that enabled him to do such a thing. Know what you're talking about.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega


As unsupported as it gets. Nihilus wouldn't have been letting him live yet dish out the mega ownage that he had just dished out. He was clearly going for the kill.

Your clearly wrong. If nihilus were to kill him he would have done so by simply breaking the bond between sion and the force which is his "special technique" which he used on the people of katarr.

Oops how i forgot that with no connection to the force sions "invincibility" is pretty damm useless, even a simple force sever can block off sions control to the force which luke,nihilus and sidious can easily do

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Occam's Razor. Nihilus, he who has displayed the most destructive use of the force in the entire Mythos, unleashed a full on force onslaught onto Sion, and his entire body remained intact. The same goes with each cutscene that follows the Exile striking him down with her lightsaber.


Right, have you ever heard of a technique which severs the bond between life and the force? That without that bond, the victim will die according to kreia? Right, sidious and nihilus is capable of destroying that bond which can instantly kill its victims. Had nihilus used that technique sion wouldn't even last 1 second

Right and where did nihilus exactly "unleashed" his full power on sion? Right from what i recall he didn't in that cut content, he used the same technique on kreia, only that it cut her control to her powers, not off the force completely or she would have died.

A simple force sever by nihilus luke or sidious is enough to overpower sion seeing once his control is blocked, he would unable to command the force to even keep his body together
Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Again, as said to Gideon, pure ability means jack. Sion possessed so much speed that he was able to slice off her hand in one move. The only factors, on her part, that would prevent such a thing would be speed and reaction time, both which draw from the force, which she has been shown to possess extraordinary ability with.

Wow im so impressed by sion cutting off kreias hand when she was not in a fighting stance, i guess vaders a saber god because he did the same to sia lan wezz, only that he impaled her then sliced her arm off before her dead body hit the floor as well as dodging a bolt after it was fired with blinding speed.

Fantastic logic "nebaris". I think 4 people calling out your name pretty much confirms it is you, seeing the way you type and bias for sion as well as the fact you ignore canon completely

Noobaris, there's a reason you've been banned more than 10 times. You can't debate, hell you can't even offer a convincing argument, and yet you sound like a broken record with your useless text.

1. Kreia was in a fighting stance, moron.

2. Sia Lan Wezz is no Kreia in force ability. Vader is no Sion in speed.

3. Darth Nihilus did use his sever connection ability against Sion, as indicated by the orange energy.

4. Darth Nihilus' sever connection ability attacks one's force connection. Yet it did nothing against Sion. He was able to resist it. So clearly simply cutting him off from the force isn't so easy.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
1. Kreia was in a fighting stance, moron.

2. Sia Lan Wezz is no Kreia in force ability. Vader is no Sion in speed.

3. Darth Nihilus did use his sever connection ability against Sion, as indicated by the orange energy.

4. Darth Nihilus' sever connection ability attacks one's force connection. Yet it did nothing against Sion. He was able to resist it. So clearly simply cutting him off from the force isn't so easy.

Except for the fact that you have no knowledge of Sion's speed, so to assume he's faster than Vader would further debunk your already poorly constructed argumented.

3 and 4 would be considered correct if they weren't n-canon..

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
1. Kreia was in a fighting stance, moron. But was she prepared is the real question
Originally posted by Ultra Omega

2. Sia Lan Wezz is no Kreia in force ability. Vader is no Sion in speed.
That was not the claim, your original claim was that "zomg he hacked of kreias hand it means hes a god". Im just using your fallible horrible analogy against you. Oh and wheres the proof sion is faster than vader? Oh right how i forgot vader dodged a blaster bolt travelling at the speed of the bullet after it was fired directly infront of him. Source: Emprie comics.

Ask jolly jim for the link but oh well hes not here

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

3. Darth Nihilus did use his sever connection ability against Sion, as indicated by the orange energy. Uh no, he did the same thing to kreia but wheres the orange lightning? Sorry but his force breaking ability is invisible, it cannot be seen unlike normal force attacks save for crush,choke etc . He merely used a life drain to toy around with sion, why would he try to kill sion when he needs sion to do the dirty work, when sion aided him in beating the shit out of kreia, when sion and nihilus have the same goals wanting to destroy the jedi, nihilus is no idiot to waste a very useful and powerful ally.
Originally posted by Ultra Omega

4. Darth Nihilus' sever connection ability attacks one's force connection. Yet it did nothing against Sion. He was able to resist it. So clearly simply cutting him off from the force isn't so easy. Prove he used it against sion, seeing i refuted your baseless claims

Again that orange lightning isn't the force bond breaking technique seeing that his "sever force" is invisible when he used it against kreia, when he stripped her off her powers.

You fail

His force storm is far more powerful than nihilus bond breaking ability.
Are you serious?

I have yet to see a Force technique that has caused as much devastation as Nihilus' Super Force Feeding technique did in a single go. His attack destroyed an entire planet.

That is like an attack from a Super-Weapon.

At-the-least it rivals Palpatine's Force Storm (Worm-hole) technique in terms of causing destruction, though the nature of these two Force techniques are highly different.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

At-the-least it rivals Palpatine's Force Storm (Worm-hole) technique in terms of causing destruction.

Actually, Palpatine's force storms bends the fabric of space, destroys entire fleets, hell it could ravage planets if he wished it so. You're wrong.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Actually, Palpatine's force storms bends the fabric of space, destroys entire fleets, hell it could ravage planets if he wished it so. You're wrong.
Nihilus's Super Force Severing attack can spread to such a scale that it can cause destruction on a planetary scale, kill all kinds of life-forms, shatter structures, feed on the deaths it causes and it does all this really fast.

In short, Nihilus just spoke and a planet was dead soon after-wards.

And destroying a planet > destroying a fleet by a considerable margin.

Though since Palpatine's Force Storm can bend fabric of space, so that makes it possibly the most dangerous technique but Nihilus' Super Force Severing technique does rivals it in terms of causing death and destruction. So I am not wrong.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
But was she prepared is the real question

...

She held her vibroblade in a stance, ergo she was prepared.



Nice Strawman. I didn't say it made him a God, I said that it makes his speed extremely impressive, considering the extent of Kreia's force ability, and more importantly, her precognition levels.



I simply pointed out what Sion did. That's not an analogy.



Being able to defeat a force user as powerful as Traya in one move purely through his speed. No other force user has displayed a level of speed that is too much for a combatant as powerful in the force as Traya to react to, except Luke against UnuThul.



I really don't see how this is supposed to be impressive, given TPM Obi-Wan is able to do the same, or rather, something greater, given he was dodging repeating fire from a droideka. He even moves at invisible speeds.



We don't even know that he used it on Traya. He might have, he might have not. I personally like to think so, and that the visuals are simply inconsistent, but either way, it doesn't matter.

What we do know, however, for absolutely sure is that he used it against the Exile, and there was visible energy of an orange colour coming out of his finger tips and spreading towards Sion, essentially collapsing your argument.



Apparently you missed the entire concept behind Nihilus. He had one goal, and one goal only; to satisfy his hunger. He didn't give a shit about the Jedi or needing allies, he simply went where his hunger took him and fed. All he needed, was himself, his ship, and his crew.

As I already said, if he didn't want to kill Sion, he wouldn't have attacked him with a combination of four powers at the same time. A simple use of TK would keep him away just fine.



You can't refute shit fool.



Already "refuted."



I may fail, but you, sir, phail.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Actually, Palpatine's force storms bends the fabric of space, destroys entire fleets, hell it could ravage planets if he wished it so. You're wrong.

You're ignoring the sheer scale of Nihilus' attack, Sexy one, along with the fact that the Force Storm is a power replicated by many, useless in a one-on-one situation, and an anomaly of a power in the sense that all you actually need to be able to summon one is knowledge of the ability. No power, or control required. I Can post a quote from the Tales of the Jedi Companion if you wish; it's under the power's very description.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
No, it's not.



Yes, and what exactly does Traya have to do with how Nihilus overpowered him?



As unsupported as it gets. Nihilus wouldn't have been letting him live yet dish out the mega ownage that he had just dished out. He was clearly going for the kill.



No, what prevents you is popular consensus. As much is obvious. Anyway, didn't you ever stop and consider that Nihilus doesn't truly qualify as a Sith (none of the KotOR Sith Lords do)? Nowhere in canon is Revan's Order (which is essentially what the Sith Triumvirate was spawned from) shown to have been ordained by any previous Sith Lord, or shown to be anything more than simple pretenders. The fact that the "True Sith" were still around whilst the Sith Triumvirate were in power, yet had no proper alliance with them, would suggest that they were, at best, pseudo Sith. Now, prove that Nihilus qualifies as a True Sith Lord, and then supply all these canon quotes that supposedly prove that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord ever. 1. Yeah, it is.

2. Sion is always crying over his mommy like the insecure girl he is.

3. Lol, he could of used his Force Breaking attack and ended it, and orange lightning =/=Force Break, it was Force Drain.

4. The quotes have been provided. Nihilus had the mantle Dark Lord of the Sith, and is regarded as a true Sith Lord, by the likes of Bane, that other guy Krayt summoned, and Krayt(who they deemed a pretender).

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Except for the fact that you have no knowledge of Sion's speed,

Please try not to fall asleep at the keyboard Sexy. If you had actually stayed awake, you might have seen the evidence I had provided, in the form of Sion one hit defeating Traya in combat through his pure speed alone. So... Sion is one fast mofo indeed.



How exactly would a non progression of an argument debunk the rest of it? You make no sense.



As V2K said, they're only N-Canon because of time restraints, meaning they may not be a part of the continuity, but they perfectly reflect the Game Producer's vision, and act as a perfect representation of their powers.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega


...

She held her vibroblade in a stance, ergo she was prepared.
Really? But again cutting her hands off when she is off guard counts as a big ass feat?

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Nice Strawman. I didn't say it made him a God, I said that it makes his speed extremely impressive, considering the extent of Kreia's force ability, and more importantly, her precognition levels. Yet you make it seem so, your original claim that sion so called extremely talented with the saber was because he hacked of kreias hand quickly.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega


I simply pointed out what Sion did. That's not an analogy.
And you indirectly label him a god by doing so.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega


Being able to defeat a force user as powerful as Traya in one move purely through his speed. No other force user has displayed a level of speed that is too much for a combatant as powerful in the force as Traya to react to, except Luke against UnuThul. Uh yes, lord nyax, sidious in dark empire, and vader himself has demonstrated "incredible speed". How does hacking ones hand of make him "incredibly quick", do you actually have any proof she completely for saw what he was going to do? And kreia was there to merely distract him so that the exile and atton could escape, nothing indicated she was even going to attempt to fight him considering the fact that she herself wants out the station

Originally posted by Ultra Omega


I really don't see how this is supposed to be impressive, given TPM Obi-Wan is able to do the same, or rather, something greater, given he was dodging repeating fire from a droideka. He even moves at invisible speeds. Because you made the ridiculous claim "Oh sion hacked of kreia's arm fast so it means he is the fastest swordsman".
I really don't see how this is supposed to be impressive

Originally posted by Ultra Omega


We don't even know that he used it on Traya. He might have, he might have not. I personally like to think so, and that the visuals are simply inconsistent, but either way, it doesn't matter.
Tell me smart ass, what does a force sever manifests itself as? Thats right nothing. And kreia said that when she got attacked by nihilus, her powers were stripped from her and we see her trying to call out to the force to grab her saber but she couldn,t. Oh right i forgot, her control to her powers has been cut off by his forcer sever.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

What we do know, however, for absolutely sure is that he used it against the Exile, and there was visible energy of an orange colour coming out of his finger tips and spreading towards Sion, essentially collapsing your argument. How do you know it was his bond breaking ability? . The more important thing to take into account is he feeds on the death he caused, and he can caused death via by any means, technology, force attacks. He isn't limited to using one technique because the exile herself feeds on the death she has caused according to the jedi masters.

Oh right if nihilus force sever didn't work if he actually used it, then why were the 3 inferior jedi masters, whom are all combined still no match for nihilus, nearly succeed in permanently cutting her off the force? Why?

Because that orange atatck is not his force severing ability. Again a force sever technique DOES NOT manifest itself as orange lightning as we have seen throughout various comics and sources.

Oh right i remember he destroyed katarr, wheres the orange lightning?, when he attacked kreia, wheres the orange lightning?

I remember no orange lightning when luke cut palpatine of the force, neither was there orange lightning when ulic got cut off, or the exile before kotor.

Your original claim is nihilus used the force sever technique on the exile and manifests itself as orange lightning which is totally unproven seeing there is NOTHING to back your claims

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Apparently you missed the entire concept behind Nihilus. He had one goal, and one goal only; to satisfy his hunger. He didn't give a shit about the Jedi or needing allies, he simply went where his hunger took him and fed. All he needed, was himself, his ship, and his crew.
And prove that he tried to cut sions ability off.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

As I already said, if he didn't want to kill Sion, he wouldn't have attacked him with a combination of four powers at the same time. A simple use of TK would keep him away just fine.
Your an idiot you know that nebaris? Firstly if he was able to effortlessly cut kreia of the force whom is superior to sion, i don't see why he would have any problems doing it to sion, some one inferior to both kreia and himself where it would be easier to cut him off the force

Originally posted by Ultra Omega


You can't refute shit fool. I have already done it again. And more importantly, can you? From whay iv seen, no you can't. You don't take canonical statements into accounts and ignore canon. You can't even back up your ridiculous claims and all you ever do is speculate. Hell even legend, the most bias kotor fan can form better arguements than you and at the least back up some of his claims while you on the otherhand don't.


Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Already "refuted."
Sure did

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

I may fail, but you, sir, phail. You may fail? Your being delusional, you have already failed so the failure is yours

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
You're ignoring the sheer scale of Nihilus' attack, Sexy one, along with the fact that the Force Storm is a power replicated by many, useless in a one-on-one situation, and an anomaly of a power in the sense that all you actually need to be able to summon one is knowledge of the ability. No power, or control required. I Can post a quote from the Tales of the Jedi Companion if you wish; it's under the power's very description.

You DO know that the force storm in DESB and TOTJ are two completely different things right? Again who in TOTJ demonstrated palpatines force storm? Thats right NOBODY.

And who are the ones who have "replicated" palpatines force storm. Hell even wookiepedia says your wrong and common sense.

And no power and control required? You certeinly are an idiot, its been stated that the smaller the storms palpatine create the easier it becomes to control the technique.

I guess boba fett would have no problem replicating this feat as it requires only knowledge according to the almight nebaris

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. Yeah, it is.

How about supporting that silly, silly claim, which you've yet to do.



Hilarious, really.



Force breaking? So we're actually making up names for powers now, are we?

And you're wrong, the orange energy is identical to that he used against the Exile, which was his connection sever ability.



Copy and paste them, then, and do it now boy.



Again, you're ignoring the fact that there were actually Ancient Sith still in action at the time. In fact, Revan's Sith Empire was essentially built to destroy the True Sith at the time. They wouldn't truly qualify as Sith, based on that fact alone. They were not taught or deemed worth of Sithdom by any other Sith before them. Nothing suggests that they were anything more than pretenders. So, time to prove up V2K.

As for your claim that Bane and Andeddu regarded him as a true Sith Lord; prove it. Do it now. Last time I checked, they didn't even make mention of Nihilus, and focused on Krayt. Just because they didn't actually directly go against Nihilus, it doesn't mean they didn't think of him as a pretender.

And even if such was the case, since when does having a couple of Sith respect you automatically make you a genuine Sith Lord? Go back to Darth Krayt for instance; he's actually a genuine Sith, given he was trained and deemed a Sith by an Ancient Sith Lord, so clearly Bane and Andeddu don't quite set the precedent for what it takes to be a true Sith Lord, anyways.

Really, too many faults with your argument V2k.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Really? But again cutting her hands off when she is off guard counts as a big ass feat?

First, quit with the off guard bullshit. She was in a battle stance. She was prepared; she was ready.

And it counts as a big ass feat because it's not shown to happen again (to a force user of Traya's caliber) except in one circumstance: with Luke Skywalker. If not so powerful people possessed speed great enough to overpower someone with the precognitive abilities and force strength of Kreia in one move, it would be more often repeated, is my point.



No, I never mentioned anything about talent, but overall battle prowess.



Lol. I indirectly labelled him a God? So, posting evidence of his incredible prowess indirectly labels him a God? Right. The fact that you would interpret such a thing would suggest that you find what I mentioned highly impressive, anyway.



Oh how I love debating with people who don't know how to read.

I never said that Luke was the only other who displayed incredible speed, I said Luke was the only other to completely overpower a combatant in one move with force ability on Traya's level.



Because hacked hand belonged to Traya, force titan with unrivalled precognitive ability.



Given she possesses precognition, that would be yes. Point is, with Sion's speed, it didn't make the slightest difference.



Indeed. She was there to distract him. Now how exactly was she going to do that, Galactus? Strip naked and give him a lap dance? No, more like she was going to distract him from the others by engaging him in combat. As evident by how she slowly approaches him... And goes into a battle stance when he reaches her.



Strawman argument.



Perhaps if you opened your eyes a little, you might.



Have you not even read my entire post? As seen against the Exile, it manifests as Orange energy. Though that could purely be for the gamers benefit, in the same sense that healing has blue circles appear around the healed. But, as far as the Game cinematics are concerned: Orange Energy.



As I've already said, I feel it likely that that is what Nihilus actually did do on her, and there are simply inconsistencies with the visuals. However, if you're gonna try and deny that, your argument can easily be countered by the facts that she could have been talking about her status as the head of the Sith Triumverate when she mentioned that her power s were stripped from her, and as for not being able to bring back her lightsaber to her, such could be explained by the fact that she would have been physically exhausted by that point. Further supporting that point is how she is able to use her powers later on, and even have some with her TK, despite not being able to move her saber (if her powers were completely removed, there would have been no effect).

Or, it could have simply been the standard force sever ability. Either way, as it stands, your argument has some serious holes in it.





Because he was desperate for some energy to satisfy his hunger for a little longer, and the way in which the Exile's wound in the force nature weakens him. This is because the Exile's force presence is fractured, and not whole, and the only reason why such a thing would have weakened Nihilus would be if he were drawing energy from the Exile, which is what his connection sever ability does.



Don't be embarrassed little guy.



Again, you don't quite understand what Nihilus does. He forms bonds between living beings, and then attacks their life and force connections. and feeds on the damage caused.



Why? Because, and you apparently don't get this, you're dealing with two completely different techniques here. Nihilus' technique attacks the force that exists within the Exile, and feeds on it. The force that exists within the Exiles is damaged, and thus had the opposite effect on Nihilus than the one he was looking for. The force sever ability doesn't draw anything into its user, but simply destroys their force connection.



As I already said, it might simply be purely for the viewer to see rather than what is actually visible in the setting, much like healing. And even if that were not the case, it's not unknown for different forms of mediums to represent things differently.



Already dealt with.



All dealt with above.



Already backed up.



It's evident through the orange energy.



Kreia more powerful than Sion? LOL. I love how you proved that.

As for Nihilus, yes, he's more powerful than Sion, but the point is, Sion is able to resist attacks to such a degree that he remains mostly unaffected even when they're delivered from a more powerful foe. That's the entire point about Sion. He excels at keeping himself alive and resisting damage.



No, you haven't, and no, I have. Read above.

Hell even Legend? From what I've seen, Legend can present an argument with an infinite more amount of intelligence and ability than you can, so I really don't see why you're bringing him up as if you're somehow better than he.



Sure didn't.



Brilliant finish. Seriously, your wit truly just blows me away. Wonderful.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
You DO know that the force storm in DESB and TOTJ are two completely different things right? Again who in TOTJ demonstrated palpatines force storm? Thats right NOBODY.

I was referring to the TotJ Companion, which details the exact same Force Storm that is seen in Dark Empire. Yes, the very one that ravages space and time.



Replicated was the wrong word. What I meant, was that many have been stated to have known it, those people being Nadd, numerous Ancient Sith and numerous Ancient Jedi.



It's not my fault if you're ignorant on the material. The technique is stated to grant the user a certain level of control over the storm.



Apparently I need to elaborate for the retarded.

The power is activated by focusing onto a certain part of one's body with force energies. Possess knowledge of that certain spot, and you can summon the force storm. Once summoned, the storm provides the user a certain level of control over it. It appears that the level of control granted depends on willpower and depth of hatred, according to Palpatine's words.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Again, you're ignoring the fact that there were actually Ancient Sith still in action at the time. In fact, Revan's Sith Empire was essentially built to destroy the True Sith at the time. They wouldn't truly qualify as Sith, based on that fact alone. They were not taught or deemed worth of Sithdom by any other Sith before them. Nothing suggests that they were anything more than pretenders. So, time to prove up V2K.


I have to ask you,if you don't consider Revan to be a true sith lord than you can't consider any other sith who followed after him to be a true sith including the likes of Dooku,Maul,Kaan and Darth Bane since they not have an sith from the ancient times of the sith empire declare them one.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Please try not to fall asleep at the keyboard Sexy. If you had actually stayed awake, you might have seen the evidence I had provided, in the form of Sion one hit defeating Traya in combat through his pure speed alone. So... Sion is one fast mofo indeed.
After 10+ bans and countless wtfpwns, you still have the temerity to waste everybody's time and embarass yourself doing it. Since your argument has yet again been pwned and you are in a need of a reality check, I'll chime in.

I didn't know you were an authority on "speed", or the author of KOTOR, or even ANYBODY credible to interpret the fight as "Sion won with speed alone", and "Sion is one fast mofo". Since there's no real evidence of this, you're an idiot.



Someone that doesn't know how to debate or the meaning of "argument", shouldn't be using big words he doesn't understand. Imagine your "argument" is a squirrel, and I ran up behind you and kicked you over the fence. Pwned, wtfpwned, debunked, call it what you'd like because they all apply.




And as canon policy is stated, n-canon=n-canon. Your constant ability to argue with pure canon makes you look more ridiculous than ever.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
I have to ask you,if you don't consider Revan to be a true sith lord than you can't consider any other sith who followed after him to be a true sith including the likes of Dooku,Maul,Kaan and Darth Bane since they not have an sith from the ancient times of the sith empire declare them one.

Do you honestly believe Noobaris knows what he's talking about? Ever?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Do you honestly believe Noobaris knows what he's talking about? Ever?

In his own mind yes he does, to us no he doesn't.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Occam's Razor. Nihilus, he who has displayed the most destructive use of the force in the entire Mythos, unleashed a full on force onslaught onto Sion, and his entire body remained intact. The same goes with each cutscene that follows the Exile striking him down with her lightsaber.

Nihilus is the most destructive force power? Are you forgetting Sidious' storms? Nihilus' technique kills individuals (if that's even the tech he used), but it does not have the pure destructive power of Sidious' storms. Besides all that, is that scene even cannon, considering that it was cut from the game.
Originally posted by Ultra Omega

LMAO. Ignore how concentrated the force would have to be on its target why don't you. By your logic, Dooku's lightning expends as much force energy as Palpatine's simply because the scale remains the same.

How are they even remotely on the same scale? Forgetting the storms, Sidious' once killed 100 stormtroopers in a singe power burst.
Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Again, as said to Gideon, pure ability means jack. Sion possessed so much speed that he was able to slice off her hand in one move. The only factors, on her part, that would prevent such a thing would be speed and reaction time, both which draw from the force, which she has been shown to possess extraordinary ability with.

show me where it says that simply having powerful force potential gave you amazing pre-cog or speed without having to refine the technique.

Also show me where it's implied that Traya herself possessed speed that was worth a damn, because if she didn't then Sion out pacing her is irrelevant.
Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Did you not read my post? Her extreme learning rate and incredible force strength (augmented by every single person she ever killed) indicates as much. The fact that she was strong enough to defeat Traya after fighting through an entire Academy of darksiders and battle droids, as well as having to beat down Sion a few good times indicates as much.


Exactly how much was her force ability augmented by with each kill? What's more, how does anything about the exile even come close to comparing to the most powerful Sith lord in history. Your grasping at straws here, give her power some context if your going to claim that she's stronger than Sidious.
Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Wrong. Firstly, that statement doesn't exist, and secondly, the Exile wasn't officially a Jedi at the time. The Order had disbanded, and she was somewhat of a grey Jedi.


First off, the statement does exist (seriously, your ignorance of the source material only proves that even you don't believe the crap you spew), ROTS novelization, enjoy.


Secondly, the whole point of the KOTOR II lightside path was the exile reclaiming her title as a jedi, she's identified as such in other material, she is a jedi.
Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Please try and read my arguments properly. I didn't say he would be holding back or anything, but that defending himself wouldn't exactly be his #1 priority.


How about you post some actual evidence aside from your personal views on a characters state of mind for a change? Like a statement or something indicating that, as you say, he wasn't fully defending himself.
Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Anyone who was confirmed through dialogue to have been struck down with a lightsaber, yes. And that would be... oh, just Sion.


Now show me where it was stated that he was decapitated or had a limb severed and still got up.
Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Not only do those statements not actually exist, but absence of proof is not proof of absence. He may display more, however he's also been in far more sources. Displaying more itself doesn't mean that he's more powerful.


I've already said where the statements can be found, they clearly state that Sids is the strongest.
Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Speaks nothing for his pure prowess. It was his speed that enabled him to do such a thing. Know what you're talking about.

Pure speed alone would not be enough to overcome those master, especially not ones with their ability in combat. And even if it were all about speed, then you'll have to show me where Sion displays anywhere near the same.

I merely find the notion of lying to protect one's online identity from being discovered as low. It's a move that resonates of desperation. Though, I will give Nebaris credit for milking every "loophole" he can access to try to defy canon. He'd make a decent lawyer, I'd wager.

Originally posted by Gideon
I merely find the notion of lying to protect one's online identity from being discovered as low. It's a move that resonates of desperation. Though, I will give Nebaris credit for milking every "loophole" he can access to try to defy canon. He'd make a decent lawyer, I'd wager.

Arguing against canon wouldn't make you a good lawyer Escape. A good lawyer is one who can interpret and manipulate the spirit of the law to his or her own end. Noobaris wouldn't be able to do this with all the luck in the world, since arguing against facts would generally be counterproductive.

My apologies, Nebaris, but "those statements" do -- in fact -- exist; three separate ones from three separate sources off the top of my head, with my copy of the RotS novelization notwithstanding.

"The Rebels were turning out to be more troublesome than many had expected. The Emperor had known it would be thus, of course; the resistance had not been a surprise to him. The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force. He was the most powerful Sith to have ever existed."
-- Death Star, page 76. Emphasis mine.

"...Yoda could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history."
-- The New Essential Chronology, page ??? (I don't own the book). Emphasis mine.

"Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting."
-- The Complete Visual Dictionary, page 72. Emphasis mine.

And before you go off reciting how the adjective is referring to Darth Sidious's political achievements -- the statement is made in the very beginning of the Attack of the Clones section. All he has done, at this point, has gotten himself elected Chancellor -- with relatively limited powers -- as this is before the manipulation of the Separatist crisis granted him unprecedented political latitude. Likewise, the Jedi Order is still functioning, as is the Republic, and the Empire is nonexistent. It is an obvious reference to power.

Likewise, here is a bit from Publius:



Addendums: The situation regarding the burial of the Lusankya were proven to be a direct result from "the Emperor's mind-fogging powers" (the Essential Guide to Characters, Ysanne Isard). Likewise, the Essential Chronology states that when the Star Destroyer tore itself from the planet, it killed "millions instantly" -- so Palpatine warped the minds of millions.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega




And it counts as a big ass feat because it's not shown to happen again (to a force user of Traya's caliber) except in one circumstance: with Luke Skywalker. If not so powerful people possessed speed great enough to overpower someone with the precognitive abilities and force strength of Kreia in one move, it would be more often repeated, is my point.

Then i guess going by what you said, anakin is also saber god because he cut off mace windu's arm, somebody who tooled the most powerful sith lord in history.

Wow so cutting ones arm off is a big feat, then i guess yoda is superior to luke because he sent sidious flying


Originally posted by Ultra Omega


No, I never mentioned anything about talent, but overall battle prowess.
Because of one move

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Lol. I indirectly labelled him a God? So, posting evidence of his incredible prowess indirectly labels him a God?
You weren't posting evidence, you were speculating and using one feat which anybody could have done.
Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Right. The fact that you would interpret such a thing would suggest that you find what I mentioned highly impressive, anyway. No i don't


Originally posted by Ultra Omega


Oh how I love debating with people who don't know how to read.
Debate? Can you even debate in the first place?

Originally posted by Ultra Omega


I never said that Luke was the only other who displayed incredible speed, I said Luke was the only other to completely overpower a combatant in one move with force ability on Traya's level. How was kreia "overpowered" exactly? By losing her once hand when she was caught off guard? I guess anakins a god then.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega


Because hacked hand belonged to Traya, force titan with unrivalled precognitive ability.
Force titan? Uh what after killing 3 weakling jedi masters with one move? After getting wtf owned by nihilus?

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Given she possesses precognition, that would be yes. Point is, with Sion's speed, it didn't make the slightest difference.
Does it, if she really knew he was going to strike she wouldn't just be standing there wouldn't she? Oh i forgot they have been talking to each other for at the least a minute or so, ample time for her "precognition" to at the least hint to her that he is going to attack


Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Indeed. She was there to distract him. Now how exactly was she going to do that, Galactus? Strip naked and give him a lap dance? No, more like she was going to distract him from the others by engaging him in combat. As evident by how she slowly approaches him... And goes into a battle stance when he reaches her. Now your key phrase "slowly approach" him backs my point up. If she "slowly approached" him, wouldn't it give her ample time for her "titan precognitive abilities" to tell her that he is going to strike her and that she should come up with a counter attack rather than stand there letting her cut her arm off?





Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Have you not even read my entire post? As seen against the Exile, it manifests as Orange energy. Though that could purely be for the gamers benefit, in the same sense that healing has blue circles appear around the healed. But, as far as the Game cinematics are concerned: Orange Energy.
. As seen on kreia, as seen on katarr, there was no orange lightning, and how is it for the gamers benefit that it is manifested as orange lightning when earlier in the game it shows kreia getting her connection cut off? Oh right there was no orange lightning when the 3 masters tried to cut the exile off the force when they nearly suceeded.

Because if i go by your horrible logic of using game cinematics, it wouldn't be the force sever technique at all, it would be a mere simple force drain

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

As I've already said, I feel it likely that that is what Nihilus actually did do on her, and there are simply inconsistencies with the visuals.
Sorry but the orange lightning used on the exile was a different technique seeing that there are countless sources to disprove it as a sever force technique. Dark empire, the sith war TOTJ, kreia vs nihilus.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

However, if you're gonna try and deny that, your argument can easily be countered by the facts that she could have been talking about her status as the head of the Sith Triumverate when she mentioned that her power s were stripped from her,
Anything to back you up?
Originally posted by Ultra Omega


and as for not being able to bring back her lightsaber to her, such could be explained by the fact that she would have been physically exhausted by that point.
Exhausted by? A force push? Wow some force titan
Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Further supporting that point is how she is able to use her powers later on, and even have some with her TK, despite not being able to move her saber (if her powers were completely removed, there would have been no effect And who ever said a force sever is an immediate effect?
Originally posted by Ultra Omega


Or, it could have simply been the standard force sever ability. Either way, as it stands, your argument has some serious holes in it.
And yours don't?



Originally posted by Ultra Omega


Because he was desperate for some energy to satisfy his hunger for a little longer, and the way in which the Exile's wound in the force nature weakens him. This is because the Exile's force presence is fractured, and not whole, and the only reason why such a thing would have weakened Nihilus would be if he were drawing energy from the Exile, which is what his connection sever ability does. /B] According to kreia, your wrong, he destroys the bond between his victims and the force, according to kreia they die because of that. Then he feeds on the death he caused and it isn't through any draining technique because the exile has the same ability to feed on the death she caused.

His sever connection ability does not "drain life out of somebody" but cutss them off the force




Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Again, you don't quite understand what Nihilus does. He forms bonds between living beings, and then attacks their life and force connections. and feeds on the damage caused. He feeds on the death he caused, and you just said his "sever force" is what is draining their life energies. Contradiction is it.


Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Why? Because, and you apparently don't get this, you're dealing with two completely different techniques here. Nihilus' technique attacks the force that exists within the Exile, and feeds on it.


I think your the one not getting it, because as the almighty kreia said during the canon dialogues, he destroys the bond between life and the force then feed on the death it causes, not "attacks the force in somebody and feed on it".

Your wrong, period
Originally posted by Ultra Omega

The force that exists within the Exiles is damaged, and thus had the opposite effect on Nihilus than the one he was looking for. The force sever ability doesn't draw anything into its user, but simply destroys their force connection. And it does not manifest itself as orange lightning

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

As I already said, it might simply be purely for the viewer to see rather than what is actually visible in the setting, much like healing. And even if that were not the case, it's not unknown for different forms of mediums to represent things differently.
Or the fact that they could have used a "blue aura" engulfing around the exile destroying her connection which would have made more sense.





Originally posted by Ultra Omega

It's evident through the orange energy.
Through speculation from nebaris which is un-proven.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Kreia more powerful than Sion? LOL. I love how you proved that.
If she is weaker than him, why did he bow down to her towards the end of the game and decided to be her apprentice and want to please her?

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

As for Nihilus, yes, he's more powerful than Sion, but the point is, Sion is able to resist attacks to such a degree that he remains mostly unaffected even when they're delivered from a more powerful foe. That's the entire point about Sion. He excels at keeping himself alive and resisting damage. Thats true but could he survive being pinned under debris if a superior force user buries him under it? Again that cut scene is non-canon. Doesn't sion need to be concious in order for his "invincibilty" to work? I can very well argue a superior force user can pull away all of his thoughts which will knock him out, as we have seen fay do it to assaji.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

No, you haven't, and no, I have. Read above.
Have you?

Originally posted by Ultra Omega


I was referring to the TotJ Companion, which details the exact same Force Storm that is seen in Dark Empire. Yes, the very one that ravages space and time. Funny that wookipedia says it only came from the