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Over the years I've grown to love Sparrabeth not only because of their chemistry and spark but because of the relationship they have. They are so much alike in so many ways yet they are so different at the same time. Honestly, the first time I watched CoTBP I thought Elizabeth would've run off with Jack. My mom told me ( before we went to see AWE ) that after we watched CoTBP in the movies, on the ride home I kept talking about Jack and Lizzie for ages, when she mentioned Will and I asked her "Who's Will?".

It made me laugh so hard. But now, everytime I think Pirates of the Caribbean, I first think Jack and Lizzie ( and later I think Barbosa ). I don't know, I mean after watching AWE and the Willabeth fans kept saying how hott the marriage was and how cute their little beach, knee smooching scene was I started to think to myself. Was there something wrong with me, I couldn't see the romance the two had. I couldn't see how in the world kissing someone's KNEE is hott, or getting married in 2 seconds with dead people and a hurricane around you is romantic.

True if it was Jack I would've probably liked it, but honestly I hated the wedding so much. If Sparrabeth was married like that I wouldn't really liked it, infact I would've hated them getting married at all ( I'd rather them just sailing into the sunset and assume that they hook up ). But there was no spark in W/E, was I the only one who hated them together? Honestly, truly, I can't even attempt to see the beauty and love in W/E, obviously Will loves Lizzie, but I doubt Lizzie really loves Will. I kinda think she went with him because he was the more 'stable' option. I don't know why but I just can't see them being happy together, I can't see how their relationship can progress. All these J/L shippers around me are saying they can see why W/E was the couple in the end, but I still can't see it. I don't know if I'm just plain stubborn or not but I still curse Ted and Terry for the lousy W/E ending. Maybe they just got lazy and went with the fairy tale ending so they didn't have to think up the J/L relationship.

Jack and Lizzie had so much potential, while Will and Lizzie peaked in CoTBP and kinda went downhill from there. With Jack and Lizzie, the relationship developed, partly because they weren`t shoved together in the first 10 minutes of POTC 1, and also because both their characters have depth. They developed Jack`s personality and past along with Lizzie`s but they just left Will off as this extra. Sure he developed alittle, and T&T did make that sad attempt to make him look like a bad boy, but honestly it didn`t work. Will was the blacksmith and Jack was the pirate. If you took Johnny Depp`s smoking good looks away from Jack and Orlando`s...looks away from Will (them still having the same personalities) then almost every single POTC fan would be on Jack`s side (even without Johnny`s drop dead gorgeous face).

Sparrabeth had so much chemistry when it came down to the phyical aspects but also so much in a deep, emotional aspect as well. They bonded through their love of the sea and their yearning for true freedom. Even though I never imagine them married and settled, I still think Jack is capable of settling down to a certain point. Everyone thinks Jack is this dashing and clever pirate but we all forget that he wasn`t a pirate from birth. He was forced into the life of piracy yet he blended so well into the persona, which means if he wants to he could quit the pirate life and live another one. Most fans wouldn`t like that but it`s entirally possible. After all, Jack wants freedom not piracy, piracy meant freedom at first to him but when Lizzie came into the picture I think his views on freedom changed. It was no longer the sea and a ship that meant it, but maybe just the company of friends and the warmth of true love.

This also proves that his feelings towards Lizzie were true and the flirting was not just to get in her pants. He could have any woman he wanted, wenches in Torguga or whatever but I think it was something special about Lizzie that enticed him. She was forbidden, but she was also so perfect for him. She felt the same way he did when it came to life and freedom, but she also had a mind to disagree with him and fight with him. That`s what makes a good relationship.

Problems.

With Willabeth all we saw was plain ol` I-love-you-so-lets-not-fight move every time their relationship was in trouble. And they WERE sweeping their problems under the rug, you can`t just look at someone, marry them in 2 seconds and pretend that the little holes in their relationship weren`t there. Sure Will probably could forgive and forget but I don`t think Lizzie would want to forget Jack and her taste of piracy.

That`s another thing I hate about Willabeth, after they marry and have kids, they`ll go back to their little blacksmith`s shop and live their until they grow old and rot. Or they could go sailing on the Flying Dutchman like the Swiss Family Robinsons and have their little (boring) adventures together. Which, honestly, I would protest against with a sign and everything.

What happend to all the passion of Sparrabeth, I know AWE crushed our hopes but it doesn't mean AWE cam to the right conclusion. I'm not going to live in my own fantasy world and pretend that Jack and Lizzie run away together but I still ship J/E all the way. They were the only reason I came to watch POTC, no matter how awsome the sword fights were or how cool the special effects were or how hansome and rugged Norington looked, I always came to see them together.

And honestly, a sweet and puppy dog love relationship is nice for 14 year olds but in POTC I expected more than that. Even though it was Disney. But think about it, Disney isn't really THAT into puppy dog love, is it? In Aladin, Jasmine the princess was with Aladin the guy from the street, wasn't she? I could think of more examples but I'm sure I've said them before.

And one more thing.

WHEN WILL AND ELIZABETH GET MARRIED ON THE SHIP, HE DIES DOESN`T HE? THAT MEANS THAT DEAD DID THEM PART, HE DIED SO SHE WAS A WIDOW AND THEY DID NOT REMARRY AFTERWARDS, MEANING THAT THEIR SUPPOSED SON IS BORN OUT OF WEDLOCK AND WE ALL KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS.

HAH! Lets here your rebuttle to that Surreal!

SPARROWBETH FOREVER, I WILL GO DOWN WITH THIS SHIP!


SPARROWBETH FOREVER, I WILL GO DOWN WITH THIS SHIP!

You're not alone, love, I'm right along there with you and i've got a bunch of friends here on KMC who are the same way!

Have you checked out the Sparrabeth forum yet? We've even got a Sparrabeth recovery/therapy thread A lot of us (me included) are still bitter over the crappy Willabeth ending and all that fake puppy love and "romantic" stuff Ted and Terry through at us in AWE *grrrrr*.

Yes! The kid is totally born out of wedlock, death already did them part - Will is dead (as hard as that is for the Willabether's to get over - it'd be the same way if it happened to Jack with us )

*hugs*

We'll never get over Sparrabeth, but we can heal over time, eh?

"death already did them part".... hahahahahahahahaha.

I forgot to write that it's Swanns&Sparrows or something like that, I had to make this account cause I couldn't remember the right spelling and my password. I felt smart.

It's been really long and wow has this place changed! I just wanted to write alittle rant about AWE and Willabeth and Sparrabeth. You don't have to comment or get angry or whatever because this is just my opinion.

Originally posted by katelovespirate
"death already did them part".... hahahahahahahahaha.

Think about it, it's true.

Oh, she's just laughing b/c we just had the same discussion on the Sparrabeth forum

yeah, and the way it was phrased was pretty funny.

Yeah, lol Reminds me of that scene in "Corpse Bride", lol

You guys, u ppl will disagree wit me, but I see no point in u guys getting worked up over the willabeth ending... tht's how the movie ended and it's not changing... u guys should write ur sparrabeth fanfics and day dream, but plz don't ruin the willabeth ending for me and the other wilabther

Pretty pretty pretty banner Miz PotC2003.

I understand where you are coming from and I know how I feel about the whole deal. I would 'save' anyone if I could from feeling unhappy or being frustrated, that's not the way of the world.

I will love them as they rage or weep or sit on the curb and eat worms--them's our pirates/crew too just like we's theirs. The ending is the ending of the movie. That's all. I'm about 6 more items down the road from the end of the movie.

I totally love the beach/honeymoon scene. I feel like it's about as cool a get down scene as ever was that didn't actually show anything. It brought two characters together both of whom I loved/love dearly.

I can't ask that them what grieves over what didn't come to fruitation not to grieve. If they couldn't rant and rave and rage, they would be even more hurt. Just gotta make room in your big old loving heart, Miz PotC and let 'em in.

Originally posted by potcfan2003
You guys, u ppl will disagree wit me, but I see no point in u guys getting worked up over the willabeth ending... tht's how the movie ended and it's not changing... u guys should write ur sparrabeth fanfics and day dream, but plz don't ruin the willabeth ending for me and the other wilabther

listen sweetheart, i hate to break it to you, but you guys lost out too. According to the current plan as laid out by the writers in the DVD info, Elizabeth will get to see Will an average of 5 times before she dies. that's not a marriage in my mind, and certainly not a happy ending for anyone.

If it had ended with a happy Willabeth scenario, I would be disappointed but would deal with it. It's just the crappiest, saddest, weirdest ending of all times that set me (and I think everyone else) off quite a bit.

Yea it was a cruddy ending...but it could make a fourth movie... trying to un-curse Will... probably will never happen but I can dream!! and Jack could help Liz and her son find a way to save Will, so the sparrabethers would be happy... and they could all kinda sail around on adventures together... again... never gonna happen but some one should try a fan fic of tht...

srry on the double post, but when I said they could all sail around wit each other, I meant Will Jack and Liz... bc they would un-curse Will... and Jack could find a new love interst who he likes better than Liz...

Originally posted by potcfan2003
You guys, u ppl will disagree wit me, but I see no point in u guys getting worked up over the willabeth ending... tht's how the movie ended and it's not changing... u guys should write ur sparrabeth fanfics and day dream, but plz don't ruin the willabeth ending for me and the other wilabther

Hon, we're not trying to ruin the ending for you or any other willabether, just as if it ended Sparrabeth you guys wouldn't try ruin our ending ( I hope, lol). We get worked up about it because to us, it just doesn't 'fit' - at least that is how it is in my case. I'm not a Will fan, and (not meaning to step on toes here), I can't see how anybody would want to choose Will over Jack. We will continue to write our fanfics and 'daydream' as you say, but we'll still continue to discuss why we think Sparrabeth is the best pairing in our own opinions, and I don't see that as ruining an ending.

Sorry to double up, don't know how I missed Miz Remember S&S, you really leaned into that one darlin' and Miz Savvy's right, we be talking this for the last 7 months about--you're in the right place for ranting and raving and Sparrabething (well, actually that's a couple of forums either before or after here). Glad you found this spot again. As for the beach/honeymoon scene, there's this other little bit, like the key word in a algebra word problem, that gives over the joy in this scene. He wasn't even kissing her knee, he was inhaling her--them on her. It is a fine interpretation. Also, Will isn't dead, dead people don't make babies.

Jack's hot, no doubt about it. No arguement, I'm like you, it's just my opinion. Glad you're here to share yours.

Unless *cough* the baby is Jack's Okay, so that is pure fiction and daydreaming on my part, lol - my mom said the same thing when she watched AWE today "Will can't be dead, how did he get her pregnant? Dead people don't have live cells"

ssl, what you have over your siggy? It's true very, very much

Originally posted by savvysparrowluv
Unless *cough* the baby is Jack's Okay, so that is pure fiction and daydreaming on my part, lol - my mom said the same thing when she watched AWE today "Will can't be dead, how did he get her pregnant? Dead people don't have live cells"


ahhhh! Neatly argued! I didn't think about that. I will have to take this into consideration when I make my lengthy and un-debatable argument of why Jack and Liz do sleep together and eventually end up together, based solely on facts of the film.

the DVD case itself confirms this. (though my opinions of having a DVD answer sheet will remain silent right now). Will, along with the other crew members of the flying dutchman, aren't human, and aren't living or dead. It stands against reason that they could procreate, unless the child was some sort of half-immortal changling.

They were nearly dead when they were bound over to the Dutchman--and when their particular spell/enchantment/curse is lifted, they are still walking talking peoples again--(extended lives, odd ability to go underwater for long periods of time--man TnT gotta go back to supernatural/spells/enchantment school and Get an A rather than a passing grade!!)--they got free, Bootstrap being told he didn't have to remain as crew on the Dutchman...

My gig always has been always will be, first Will then Jack--long term loving married to both (I'd lot rather tangle with the legal system at that time than the whys and wherefores of the magic/supernatural). I don't have problem one with her marrying Will on the Pearl (well, hedge my bet sorta) and having another equally legitimate Pirate wedding(designation: begins Dearly Beloved...tradish, signing in the codes, signing articles, and/or slash your palm blood handshake...pirate). Although that is one household that will require some definite chore charts to make sure Mom and Dads are on top of the daily do's. Allows for Jack&Will, Jack&Elisabeth, Will&Elisabeth, all together now to pirate or privateer as needed or desired. Again, so much easier to get around legal than supernatural.

Also, in the sharing it's not the super best of both worlds (except for Elisabeth)however, if you have cake and dance too, well, you gotta give something. Okay, off soapbox, on to next dragon. Sorry Miz Kate and Savvy, I'm that third variation of Bether, sorta like swirled vanilla chocolate cones. Not the easiest solution, but one I can live with and still have Jack free. Lady Pirate's Until Death (?), except for part three where it's abrupt. Anyway, I feel ever so much better being ranted out and off the soapbox. Thankee dearies for letting the blowhard blow hard. and I got to see Mr. Depp this a.m. on Today show!! Yes, he is melting away--otherwise seems healthy and happy.

I'm personally a huge fan of having your cake and dancing with both the hot boys. Just desserts indeed!

I think Kate said it best, had it been a happy willabeth ending, yeah, we would probably still b*tch because it's not OUR ending, but we could live with it. We all loved COTBP and that was as happy a willabeth ending as anyone's going to get. It even struck me as refreshing that the girl did NOT go off with the hot pirate at the end but actually stuck with the little guy. It was pure escapism, swashbuckling fun that is still the best in the series.

We were all satisfied with how DMC was left because it was open-ended in spite of T&T's rants that everything was already resolved at the end of DMC and they technically could have ended it there. (UH, NO!!!) But we could make up whatever we wanted. How many times did we write our own version of AWE? Everyone was happy because they saw possibilities for their couple. Sparrabethers had clues, willabethers had clues, maybe not barbossabethers, but at least norribethers knew their dashing commodore-turned-heart-stealer (pun is intended) would be back for more.

But then T&T realized the hole they dug themselves in. There was no way to make everyone happy. Duh. That's what happens in a movie franchise. Some fans get disappointed. So they had to pick a course of action to take, and stick to it, closing off the other relationship and making it clear that whatever feelings may have been floating around, it was all over and a friendship was the best it would ever be.

1. Willabeth: This is the couple they've written from the beginning, the "young lovers" couple, and in some ways, it can be exciting writing about a young couple just starting out and facing challenges. Will would not have been able to stay a blacksmith, so he wouldn't have started beating Liz into submission as a lot of rude, hardcore sparrabethers think. There was lots of potential to make a fun willabeth ending.

2. Sparrabeth. Little things have been building and building until they exploded into one of the hottest kisses in all of filmdom. By the end of DMC, there are unresolved feelings there, and as LovelyOne first pioneered, a lot of cinematic clues to imply that these two are definitely soulmates and parallels of each other, if not lovebirds. Nearly all the character development these two go through happens when the other one is present or in the other's mind. Find a nice convenient way to drop Will and this could have been one kickass ending.

3. Norribeth: talk about a left field ending. But it could have been done given a meaty story that focused on James, which would have been easy considering he had the heart and came out the winner in DMC. More fans would have been mad because norribethers are in the minority, but James is a happy medium for most shippers because he has all of Jack's sexiness without the weirdness and all of Will's bravery without the dorkiness.

4. No shipping: Our trio sails off in the sunset because (a la Cate Blanchett in Bandits) her love interests are only perfect when combined. This would have been a kind of cop-out, but everyone would have once again be satisfied because there is plenty of room to guess about who finally won Liz's heart and which odd man out met another girl along the way.


But did they do any of these? No. They decided if all their fans can't be happy, no one can be, and not only cursed Will for 10 years but his whole existence! The only way for Liz to be with him is if she becomes immortal and then that would suck because they would see their son and their grandchildren die. It would just be a never ending cycle of making people immortal, and I have a big pet peeve with "people becoming immortal" endings. So she goes on to have the hardest job in the world as a single working mom and Will is left to be alone for all eternity (oh, wait, he has his deadbeat dad) and Jack is left with nothing but a faulty compass that never should have been a focal point and a bottle of rum. Great. A trio of losers.

spectacularly argued and summed up, Willo. bravo. That just about covers all of it, and why we are angry. Mayhaps we should risk controversy on Wordplayer and post this there, with a requested explanation (which of course we will never get) for why it ended how it did.

I mean, they didn't even give us willabeth, not really. At least throw us that.

(Ted and Terry sorting through their fan mail)

Terry: Have you found that special package from Gore yet?

Ted: No! How nice. He always knows when our stash is running low. (they share a knowing look)

Terry: Hey, Ted, look at this. What's KMC?

Ted: That's where the crazy fans hang out. We went to some PirateDiva's school and stirred the waters.

Terry: ha ha, stirred the waters. And they're pirate movies.

Ted: I'm the funny one, Terry. Don't pretend. But look what I've found.
(passes note to Terry)

Terry: (skimming and making comments as he goes) What? What the hell's willabeth? Kiss....50 foot women....everyone dies.......no closure with the J/E relationship....that must stand for Juliet and Edward, her cousin written out of the play.

Ted: Are you sure it doesn't stand for Jack and Elizabeth? Our own characters?

Terry: Oh. I was just testing you. (shifty eyes, continues to skim) No one satisfied with third installment, too many plot holes and too little explanations. I guess they're mad?

Ted: They only tolerate AWE from the sounds of it. It's become the Attack of the Clones for our series.

Terry: No! Not that!

Ted: I'm afraid so. I thought it was so good. We gave the audience just a little bit and let them figure out the rest. I mean, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that the green flash and the smiles on Elizabeth and Junior's faces indicate Will is back for good.

Terry: Well, then this isn't a good time to break it to you that Gore sent us the dvd. They've posted that Will is cursed for eternity.

Ted: Is he?

Terry: I don't know. I was hoping you would.

Ted: What does that mean for Jack?

Terry: We never closed Jack's story hoping POTC4: Jack Strangles Mickey Mouse in a Fit of Drunken Rage would close out his story.

Ted: I don't like that title.

Terry: Me either. But Gore says it's what Michael Eisner wants.

Ted: Hmm, this sounds serious. (calls Gore on his razor phone)

Gore: Gore here, famous director who looks good in shorts.

Ted: Gore?

Gore: Ted? Hey! I sent you guys more pot.

Ted: This is neither the time nor the place, Gore. What the hell is wrong with your company?

Gore: Beg pardon?

Terry: (is put on) You know, "Elizabeth's story has yet to be told" and more subtle hints that even though you've screwed our couple for life, you still don't want to just flat out say she stays a pirate and pillages for a living.

Gore: We wanted to keep things vague. You guys mentioned a sequel even though Orlando and Keira weren't interested.

Ted: Exactly! They aren't interested! The next installment is Jack's story!

Gore: Jack? Oh that guy. Second banana to the monkey. ha ha, monkey. Wait, didn't one of you want to pair him off with Elizabeth?

Ted: We toyed with the idea, yes, and decided on...I hate to use this....willabeth. But you took our Odyssey-esque ending and made it awful! What gives?

Gore: Hold on. Let's not fight. You guys nowhere in your bombastic attempt at a series finale said that after 10 years Will was free. We just assumed and answered the questions as such.

Terry: Nowhere in the movie? Are you kidding? It's everywhere! Davy Jones and Tia have a whole scene about it.

Gore: Oh, I thought you left that scene in as a character piece, not to actually explain anything. No one trusts villains anyway.

Ted: (crawling into fetal position) No way out, no way out...

Terry: Calm down over there. (back to Gore) Look, can't you retract the statement or something?

Gore: No! Now everyone's on the same page. Pissed, but on the same page. The dvd is selling faster than Scarlett and Giselle on a day when the navy and the pirates come to port, so you shouldn't be complaining. Johnny's happy, Keira's happy, Orli's happy.

Ted: Tell that to Jack, Jonathan, Tom, uh, Chow...who am I leaving out?

Terry: Technically, Bill.

Ted: Bill

Terry: the kraken puppeteers.

Ted: The kraken puppeteers. You killed them all! And yet you spared Stellan. Stellan? The starfish bastard who left his son? You're lucky Keith isn't on your ass.

Gore: Okay, here is what we'll do. We leave the dvd as is and whenever someone asks you about it, just beat around the bush and shove pictures of Jack Sparrow into their horny faces. Sound good?

Terry: Yeah.

Ted: Yeah.

Gore: Good. Now open my stash I sent you so I can come over and have a circle moment. I invited Johnny.



End

ROFL!!! Love it, love it, love it!

I can almost see something like that happening too, lol

Am I like the only Jack Sparrow fan in the world who doesn't want him with that dolt Elizabeth? I'm not a Willabeth fan, perse but I want them together because I don't want Jack anywhere near dull ass Elizabeth

hmmm... on this forum, probably. we all rather like Elizabeth, I think, though like everyone, she can be a bit of a dolt sometimes. It's not her fault she's the only female in the caribbean.

Willo, what can i say??? I want to hear about the circle!!! hahahaahhaahah that was great. I can SOOOOO picture that happening.

lol funny

Elizabeth is awesome, and we're primarily a sparrabeth forum, but we welcome all.

Ah, the circle.

(Gore and Johnny have arrived. Johnny is being classy and has brought a wine basket. It cuts to a That 70s Show stoner circle)

Johnny: So, let me get this straight, the fans don't like AWE? We had a blast!

Gore: Dude, when you talk, it sounds like Sweeny Todd singing.

Johnny: I mean, Tom is a freakin' riot and Kevin with a teddy bear? That's Oscar worthy stuff. Damn Hollywood and its high standard!

Terry: I'm a trained writer! It's not like I sit in a room and stare at my hand all day.

Ted: That was a fun day we did that, though.

Terry: (stares at his hand and speaks slowly and deliberately) Will...should stab the heart and be captain of the Flying Dutchman.

Johnny: We already filmed that...we should remake AWE! Ridley Scott...or is it Tony Scott...one of them remade Bladerunner and everyone loves the remake.

Gore: Remakes goes against everything Disney stands for.

Ted: Disney. Sounds like a gourmet spaghetti sauce. Anyone want some meatballs?

Terry: If we remake AWE, we have to rehire Keira, rehire Orli...

Johnny: Let's call him Lando.

Terry: Too much Star Wars comparisons. Much? Many? Hmm. But we have to rehire everyone, go back to Singapore, talk to Jonathan again.

Gore: Yeah.....Jonathan's pretty pissed at everyone right now. He egged my house.

Johnny: How's he know where you live?

Gore: Wait...that wasn't my house that was egged...what the hell am I talking about?

Terry: (now staring at his hand) And Elizabeth should have a child and we'll call it Will Junior because Theodore is the name of a Chipmunk.

Johnny: I was asked to be in Alvin and the Chipmunks, but I was working with Tim and Helena. I wonder if that will hurt me later...

Ted: Don't the fans like seeing Davy as a human? Or, or seeing Barbossa come back? Or when Jack finally got the Pearl back and fired his one shot that he'd been saving for 10 years?

Gore: More 10 year crap. That's what started this whole mess.

Terry: Ted, you're talking about the wrong movie. You're describing Shrek.

Gore: (singing) Somebody once told me/the world is gonna rule me...

Johnny: (starting to become an affectionate, loud stoner) Man, Lily was watching Shrek for the first time and she called Donkey a horse. If she had been in AWE, everyone would have loved it, man! Lily the pirate. Ha ha, she still wets herself.

Terry: Yep, big Keith Richards cameo...cut to little girl wetting herself. Fans would have gone crazy for it. "That's Johnny Depp's daughter. Aw, how cute." You're the problem with AWE, Johnny!

Ted: I take offense to that, sir! (takes off his glove and slaps him with it)

Terry: You, you, you swagger around in your Oscar-nominated performance and steal all the fans' hearts and you didn't adlib one damn kiss with Keira. Not one! That's all they wanted.

Ted: I can't kiss Keira because she's too young and I'm married! (tearing up) She also eats a lot of peanuts and I'm allergic! If her tongue still had peanut residue on it, and she kissed me with it, I'd swell up and pop.

Gore: Dude, maybe we shouldn't talk about Keira's tongue.

Johnny: She doesn't really use her tongue much. Oh, you said stop.

Gore: Dudes, I want to talk about Naomie's tongue. There was a hottie that didn't get to kiss anyone. Am I right? Am I right? Nah, none of you care.

Ted: Naomie...50 foot naked hotness. How could the fans not like that? She was naked?

Terry: Because no guy wants to be able to...uh, "commit" to her fully, if ya know what I mean.

Gore: No.

Johnny: No.

Ted: No.

Terry: Okay, picture this-- things are getting hot and heavy with your 50 foot woman and let's just say you'd have to put the condom over all of you.

Gore: And with that, I'm going to go sober up.

*pounds fist on floor, tears up from laughing*

Oh, wow...that was hilarious! I'm totally saving that to a word document to read on rainy days

Great job!

oh...my...gosh.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA wow.... that crossed SOOOO many lines and it was SOOOO great...

Originally posted by katelovespirate
hmmm... on this forum, probably. we all rather like Elizabeth, I think, though like everyone, she can be a bit of a dolt sometimes. It's not her fault she's the only female in the caribbean.

Willo, what can i say??? I want to hear about the circle!!! hahahaahhaahah that was great. I can SOOOOO picture that happening.
I don't mind Elizabeth for Will but she is just not woman enough for Jack

hmmm.... there's a perspective i dont think we've heard. of course, after AWE, my opinion of whether Elizabeth could be with Jack changed slightly, but it was never on account of Elizabeth being lacking in any qualities.

What's not to love? She's pretty, strong, impulsive, dramatic, and not afraid to dive into a rough world. She can play with the best of them, out-wit famous pirates (and out-drink them), swordfight really well, and she's not just another pretty face. Not to mention she's charming, clever, and deals with a lot of stress pretty well. She's a great disney heroine. What's the problem?

Honestly, my biggest problem with Elizabeth is her hair in DMC. And the fact that she kisses everyone in the third movie (which is, I think, T and T's attempt to downplay the Sparrabeth kiss--- NICE TRY.)

Elizabeth is nothing more than an annoying wannabe tag along to me. I simply never took to her at all. She's not what I had i mind for a heroine but she's the classic Disney heroine woman of all trades sort who all the men can't resist. She just doesn't ring true to me and she's not fire enough for Jack IMO. I consider her rather dull overall. She has many sides and many assets but they don't fit together into an explosive person. Just a person who can do a lot of things.

I would want Jack with someone more fiery and fierce than Elizabeth. I'm newer to the Pirates but especially after viewing Dead Man's Chest I am simply not interested in Sparrabeth overall.

Jack Sparrow is a free spirited adventurer his women are best left to descriptions, names and fond recollections not to be tagging along with him. He is like James Bond in a sense that the women simply will never be able to keep up so there is no point in trying and really who has an interest in seeing it overall? Not me anyway.

Will and Elizabeth work together to me. They are a unit and a team who complement each other well. Though really I'd rather Will go full out pirate and sail the world with Jack. But if anyone must be stuck with the ball and chain who can sword fight and do a million other things best it's Will than the great Jack Sparrow.

Two of my friends are Willabethers like you, but main problem with them is they don't have same reasons to be Willabethers.

One is Willabether, because she simply loves Jack so much and she's unable to see him with Lizzie (because it would be like cheating to her) and second is Willabether, because she loves Will so much and she wouldn't like him end up without a girl. And some other Willabethers just simply follow the movie.

So that's main problem with Willabeth, it doesn't unite shippers too much, there is always lot of difference "WHY do they love it?"

Originally posted by Sifzensinril
Two of my friends are Willabethers like you, but main problem with them is they don't have same reasons to be Willabethers.

One is Willabether, because she simply loves Jack so much and she's unable to see him with Lizzie (because it would be like cheating to her) and second is Willabether, because she loves Will so much and she wouldn't like him end up without a girl. And some other Willabethers just simply follow the movie.

So that's main problem with Willabeth, it doesn't unite shippers too much, there is always lot of difference "WHY do they love it?"
I mean I'm not much of a Willabether in a dream world Jack and Will would dump the broad off at the next dock and tame the high seas together without her.

I'm a No Elizabether period, but if she's gotta stick around she has the most believable connection with Will in my opinion, not that I don't pity him for it. Also I am a Sparrow Fan First and to me he doesn't need a girl and if he does need one Elizabeth is surely not the one he needs IMO.

I don't begrudge Sparrabethers, I just don't get it as a Sparrow fan first

I never saw her as a tag-along. She seemed more like the pro-active type that didn't have to wait around for someone else to start the action. She thinks fast and at least in the first movie, a lot of exposition about pirates comes from her. She is the one who explains to us what parley is and then is the one that lists Jack's "accomplishments," giving us a background on his infamy and shows off her obsession with pirates. She seems take-charge to me and that's the direct opposite of tag-along. She's annoying sometimes, oh yeah, especially at the beginning of AWE where she refuses to just tell Will what's going on. But compared to the other women in the series like Anamaria, Liz is a free-thinker too, coming up with ideas and keeping faith when others are all set to give up. I like the increasing importance she had in the series, making it all the way to pirate king, which I'm sure she still has at the end of the series, so now she's a working mom just like I'll be.

But sometimes I agree with you that Jack would be better off with someone else. I mean, she's married now and he needs a single girl.

yeah...as much as I get aggravated with Elizabeth..I never saw her as a tag-along...and I thought she was matched with Jack...I mean she did out-smart the man a few times!

But......It really wasn't Elizabeth's fault that she ended up quite boring at certain points in AWE..that was Ted and Terry and Gore's fault.....

and I keep saying this..cuz it's what I believe...Elizabeth was married....married till death do them part.....for all points and purposes Will is dead....Liz is a widow......there I go dreaming again...

Come to think of it....she did look like a school morm standing on that cliff in the 10 years later scene.....poor lizzy..she went domestic on us....but that is what women do when they settle down and have babies...that's what happen to me!

Originally posted by lovethemtigers
yeah...as much as I get aggravated with Elizabeth..I never saw her as a tag-along...and I thought she was matched with Jack...I mean she did out-smart the man a few times!

But......It really wasn't Elizabeth's fault that she ended up quite boring at certain points in AWE..that was Ted and Terry and Gore's fault.....

and I keep saying this..cuz it's what I believe...Elizabeth was married....married till death do them part.....for all points and purposes Will is dead....Liz is a widow......there I go dreaming again...

Come to think of it....she did look like a school morm standing on that cliff in the 10 years later scene.....poor lizzy..she went domestic on us....but that is what women do when they settle down and have babies...that's what happen to me!
Well I considered her a tag along myself she was just a girl who had fantasies about pirate life and wanted to be down so bad to me. I just don't care for the character much at all. Will and Jack I love but Elizabeth is just a nuisance.

Jack and Will sailing off and being pirates together? I dont know how to say this... but i think they would kill each other.

frankly, i don't know how much more fiery and fierce you get than Elizabeth--- she is a total spitfire, and you can see that from about the first five minutes of film 1 straight through to the end of film 3. she is always swordfighting, implusively attacking people, letting her temper explode, all the time. i mean seriously--- there are many examples, but take film 2-- instead of waiting around in prison for will to rescue her, she ditches her father, blackmails beckett with a pistol, disguises herself as a man and commandeers a ship, dives into a barfight in tortuga, then once they get to isle cruses, she lets out a long and much needed rant against the men, then fights pintel and ragetti, then fights the fish people, then leads the charge against the kraken, then kills the main character with a kiss of death in order to save her own skin. if she got any more fiery, she would not be allowed in a disney movie. not saying you have to like her, but i dont think she's lacking in the personality department.

May I ask why you like Will but don't like Elizabeth? Just curious.

Miz S&B, you are a dedicated no/Bether then, it's an amazing stance, with which you seem content. Another smart piratista with a decided twist in thinking. Who'dathunkit? I keep thinkin' we've gotten all the juice outta these grapes then along comes someone with a slightly different take. Thankee dearie--new is very interesting.

I really just don't get the Sparrabeth hype. A kiss where she killed him, and then kissed a bunch of other people in the film who also happened to die or nearly die later. I would never want Jack with Frumpy the False Pirate and I don't feel they parallel each other at all. I just wish they had never kissed and she never nearly killed him and that she wasn't running around giving her kiss of death to every man in the film. They really wrecked the Elizabeth character after Pirates one. In Pirates one she was respectable charming but strong in a believable way.

By two they piled on the hype making her an insta master swordsman and having her pretty much act a little too flirty with Sparrow while she was supposed to be in love with Will. Regardless of why she was doing what she did I am still disgusted Will was not angrier at her for kissing Sparrow and them having killed him. That was pretty treacherous.

And in three she was just smooching everybody and a Pirate King...yick.

I think he was quite angry at her, but mostly just hurt - he couldn't understand why she would do something like that, and then not tell him.

What's wrong with her being a Pirate King? That's her dream come true and she was a pretty good one considering the pirates actually did work together to defeat their enemy and there is nothing to say that she didn't keep the title for at least the next ten years.

You don't think Will was angry? I could delve into it, but this doesn't seem like the place.

Will clearly WAS angry. And, he got his revenge. Yep. Tricked the wench into marrying him just moments before he was planning on stabbing the heart, becoming captain of the flying dutchman, and ruining the rest of her life with the curse that would force her to be faithful to someone she would barely ever see again. Now THAT'S what I call revenge.

Originally posted by katelovespirate
Will clearly WAS angry. And, he got his revenge. Yep. Tricked the wench into marrying him just moments before he was planning on stabbing the heart, becoming captain of the flying dutchman, and ruining the rest of her life with the curse that would force her to be faithful to someone she would barely ever see again. Now THAT'S what I call revenge.
I guess but lucky for Will he doesn't have to see her but once every 10 years, if he wants

Originally posted by willofthewisp
What's wrong with her being a Pirate King? That's her dream come true and she was a pretty good one considering the pirates actually did work together to defeat their enemy and there is nothing to say that she didn't keep the title for at least the next ten years.

You don't think Will was angry? I could delve into it, but this doesn't seem like the place.
To me they just didn't develop the story right. The series was a mess after number 1 IMO. They had to do waaay too much overhauling with Elizabeth and it ended up hurting her character. I look at Liz in one and she doesn't even seem like the same person by Pirates 3. Will changed too but I think for the better and at his core not much. And Jack...as always is Jack

It's funny because at first I sort of liked Liz, loved Jack and Will got on my nerves. Then as I watched the movies I liked Liz less with each one and Jack and Will became cemented in my heart as favorites. The movies did them favors, but really her none.

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
To me they just didn't develop the story right. The series was a mess after number 1 IMO. They had to do waaay too much overhauling with Elizabeth and it ended up hurting her character. I look at Liz in one and she doesn't even seem like the same person by Pirates 3. Will changed too but I think for the better and at his core not much. And Jack...as always is Jack

It's funny because at first I sort of liked Liz, loved Jack and Will got on my nerves. Then as I watched the movies I liked Liz less with each one and Jack and Will became cemented in my heart as favorites. The movies did them favors, but really her none.

Jack is always Jack?

So he hasn't changed at all, he's the same looney toons pirate who could be mistaken as a cartoon? He didn't develop a character and grow out of his 2D personality? Jack is nothing but a cheap laugh and typical Disney comedy? He can't find true love, he can't raise kids, he can't be anything more than a pirate that sleeps around with sleezy whores?

Wow, just goes to show what a joke Jack is to everyone.

If they make a 4th, Will sure as hell wont be there to ruin it again

Seriously...trying to make the lamest character cool, just doesnt work, He still looks like a complete gay boy, even when they tried to make him look like Jack..he looked like some criminal's male prostitute in prison.

^^ Lol

Originally posted by LovelyOne
If they make a 4th, Will sure as hell wont be there to ruin it again

Seriously...trying to make the lamest character cool, just doesnt work, He still looks like a complete gay boy, even when they tried to make him look like Jack..he looked like some criminal's male prostitute in prison.
The only person who ruined Pirates of the Carribean was Jane of all trades Elizabeth kissing everyone in the damn movie and then them dying after she kissed em. Too bad she couldn't lay a smooch on herself.

Originally posted by RememberS&S
Jack is always Jack?

So he hasn't changed at all, he's the same looney toons pirate who could be mistaken as a cartoon? He didn't develop a character and grow out of his 2D personality? Jack is nothing but a cheap laugh and typical Disney comedy? He can't find true love, he can't raise kids, he can't be anything more than a pirate that sleeps around with sleezy whores?

Wow, just goes to show what a joke Jack is to everyone.
Jack is hardly a joke he's clearly the awesomest character in the entire series.

Finally, something positive.

LOVELYONE!!!!!! HIIIII!!!!!!!! We MISS you!!!!!

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
Jack is hardly a joke he's clearly the awesomest character in the entire series.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying, you said Jack is always Jack, does this mean he doesn't change? You're impling that he's just a non developing character, and if he doesn't develop then he doesn't have a purpose other than providing cheap laughs.

If he doesn't change and grow through his experiences then he isn't real. Human beings change, their characters change, their views on life and their values change. If Jack had just gone back to his former life then there is no point whatsoever in DMC and AWE, and everyone spent all this money for nothing but some special effects and a weak plot.

Obviously people would rather have an 'awsome' character than a human being as Jack.

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
Jack is hardly a joke he's clearly the awesomest character in the entire series.


she was being sarcastic! Didn't you read it....don't you now where remember stands!

You are obsessed with disliking Elizabeth and Keira..what's up with that?

I honestly cannot relate where you are coming from..because if anyone was a bore in the film and lacked excitement it was Will Turner, by far...hands down! I find myself yawning whenever he is in a scene without Jack!
Jack and Will togehter on adventures...get real.....Jack would soon grow tired of Will's self-righteousness and throw him overboard..the man is a total bore.....LOl that reminds me of the deleted scene when in the Tortuga bar Gibbs comments that Will is a bit of a stick and Jack responds "you have no idea"...Stick in the mud equals boring as all get out!

Well, shiver me timbers--I think we can dispense with the 'small little' part of this forum title--Major twisty bendy stuff going on here --keep delivering the broadsides--FIRE ALL!! There's plenty of shot where this came from

Oh, Miz Lovely One--check out Before Night Falls. Mr. Depp gives a quite believable performance as the Cuban lt. Victor in the prison and also, BonBon, a darlin' slip of a "criminal's male prostitute in prison". It's definitely not what I thought I might be seeing in this lifetime, but as always, Mr. Depp produces.

Can I leave a marker and when the dust settles, I'd like to know the outcome--Step it up please, aginners, no disrespect intended--just there has been some fine thinking going on these last few months in the various forums and the agins here are being overshadowed by the laser intell and sheer numbers of the devoutly Sparrabeth.

Just becos...okay, that is a reason, given that we all pays our money and takes our choice--that can seriously be done without ever mentioning any other ship (I have been a little shocked by the ones that profess Will/Jack yucko). So, back to work--send up a flare after the boarding parties decide who still 'stands'--oh, or if y'all tangent off on something I'd like to rant, smallishly, littley rant you know .

Sam's my favorite pet--and Mr. Depp's lips should be enshrined in the Smithsonian--absolutely, positively, perfect, please make him say blue balloons, uniquely, hugeishly, thought-stoppin', jaw droppin', eye poppin', decidedly, achingly kissable lips in the whole of the Spanish Main, nay, the world! Can I have an "ohhhbaby!?", ohhhbaby!

Originally posted by RememberS&S
I don't think you understand what I'm saying, you said Jack is always Jack, does this mean he doesn't change? You're impling that he's just a non developing character, and if he doesn't develop then he doesn't have a purpose other than providing cheap laughs.

If he doesn't change and grow through his experiences then he isn't real. Human beings change, their characters change, their views on life and their values change. If Jack had just gone back to his former life then there is no point whatsoever in DMC and AWE, and everyone spent all this money for nothing but some special effects and a weak plot.

Obviously people would rather have an 'awsome' character than a human being as Jack.
People change but at our essence there are some things we will do and some things we simply won't do. That's what makes us who we are. I think Jack did change somewhat but I mean the character really stayed true to what he was all along, a kind of loveable anti hero. He still kept his shadiness through out the films at the end he was still willing to double cross Barbosa in order to get to what he wanted. He lost out on his immortality one way but he was out looking for it another way.

I think Elizabeth came out of the movie looking worse than everyone else though they just stretched her all out of shape to further the plot line along. I ignored the Pirates of the Carribean hype I didn't even come here till I watched the movies myself and I'd never been on any other pirates board. At first I did not like Will, sort of liked Elizabeth and was instantly in love with Jack's character. By the middle of the series I was liking Will less and Elizabeth I lost all respect for when she killed Jack in Pirates 2. In Pirates 3 it was only Will and Jack I liked Elizabeth...I was just burnt out on her by then.

Pity though she was an admirable heroine by the end of Pirates one she just became a flaming joke by the end of Pirates 3. They really should have only done the one movie. Had Jack sailing off into the sunset and Will and Elizabeth together on the rocks there the other two movies really didn't do any favors for the lot of them though Jack Sparrow came out the best of all at the end of the day.

Originally posted by lovethemtigers
she was being sarcastic! Didn't you read it....don't you now where remember stands!

You are obsessed with disliking Elizabeth and Keira..what's up with that?

I honestly cannot relate where you are coming from..because if anyone was a bore in the film and lacked excitement it was Will Turner, by far...hands down! I find myself yawning whenever he is in a scene without Jack!
Jack and Will togehter on adventures...get real.....Jack would soon grow tired of Will's self-righteousness and throw him overboard..the man is a total bore.....LOl that reminds me of the deleted scene when in the Tortuga bar Gibbs comments that Will is a bit of a stick and Jack responds "you have no idea"...Stick in the mud equals boring as all get out!
Jack would grow tired of Will's self righteousness, but yet some say he would consort with the woman who had him killed and that's a true love story? Okay...

Don't get me wrong I'm not huge Will Turner fan but I will take him over Elizabeth any day out of the week. My fanship is completely that of Captain Jack Sparrow and Captain Jack Sparrow alone but if I had to select a partner for him better the eunuch than the murderess.

yet, but jack admired her......they are pirates.....oh well, so what...it's just a movie...we can over look a thing like that to see more hot kisses between lizzy and jack

Originally posted by lovethemtigers
yet, but jack admired her......they are pirates.....oh well, so what...it's just a movie...we can over look a thing like that to see more hot kisses between lizzy and jack
Sorry I have a hard time believing Captain Jack Sparrow would pitch woo with a woman who fed him to the Krakken by chaining him to the mast so she could save her actual true love and a bunch of other pals.

I don't care if you all want to overlook it really at all. I'm a Captain Jack Sparrow fan first like I said and beyond Pirates of the Carribean one I don't care for the Elizabeth character. She was admirable and rootworthy in that movie but from 2 on she was totally unlikeable in my book.

And Captain Jack Sparrow's admiration of her for killing him is just as stupid as her becoming Pirate King and that lame boat speech she gave.

And I think Captain Jack Sparrow said it best when she looked as though she might want to kiss him again at the end of the movie and he countered that once is enough.

Actually Captain Jack Sparrow, once was more than enough. Just ask Norrington.

ah, but the murder is what makes it all so deliciously twisted and fun. love between two real pirates? it would be the most unique love story of all times... because pirates inevitably betray each other, break the law, and will do anything to save their own lives and pursue freedom.

love between two childhood sweethearts that undergoes a bit of transition and some slight tension? yawn yawn. been there, done that. love between a legendary crazy pirate and a spoiled society lady-turned murdering pirate king? I'm intrigued! What love could survive one killing the other-- and by manipulating him physically and emotionally, no less. It's fascinating! It's intriguing. It's a damn good story, and one worth pursuing in the midst of our weird obsession with keeping love and romance the same as it's always been. it's bending the rules and testing the boundaries of all accepted facts and traditions.

will and jack? what is this, brokeback mountain? if I can't stand to watch the whelp onscreen, i highly doubt Jack owuld be able to stomach sailing about with him... especially seeing as, in ALL 3 FILMS, anytime the two are together, they are trying to kill each other and/or betray each other. and not in an intriguing way. Will is too self-righteous for his own good, and far too loyal. Jack is too charming and too morally corrupt for Will's honor. And to speak from a purely cinematic standpoint, Orlando disappears when Johnny is onscreen.

speaking of rants about movie three, I never got to see Keira in eyeliner. I was really pulling for that... for a little "Elizabeth takes after Jack for some plot-related reason and puts on eyeliner and possibly a hat and coat"... that would have been fun.

Originally posted by katelovespirate


love between two childhood sweethearts that undergoes a bit of transition and some slight tension? yawn yawn. been there, done that. love between a legendary crazy pirate and a spoiled society lady-turned murdering pirate king? I'm intrigued! What love could survive one killing the other-- and by manipulating him physically and emotionally, no less. It's fascinating! It's intriguing. It's a damn good story, and one worth pursuing in the midst of our weird obsession with keeping love and romance the same as it's always been. it's bending the rules and testing the boundaries of all accepted facts and traditions.

Yeah but you're forgetting one thing mate, I'm a Captain Jack Sparrow fan and I don't care how intriguing (LMAO, only not because Elizabeth is as intriguing as white bread) Sparrabeth potentially is I'd rather not see Captain Jack Sparrow anywhere near the woman who killed him. Captain Jack Sparrow is all about self preservation and freedom. He avoids fights and barters because he'd rather live and get what he wants than die trying. That's why he sometimes behaves in what people would consider a cowardly manner he is really a lot about self preservation and self satisfaction. To be with his killer would be stupid. Nothing romantic about it in my opinion.

The most romantic idea of all is Captain Jack Sparrow married forever to his freedom sailing the high seas pursuing his dreams for this Captain Jack Sparrow fan.

Sparrabeth is and I am quite glad for the sake of Captain Jack Sparrow fans first everywhere that Disney saw it that way too.

hmm... i DONT agree with you on that, because while I would like to see Captain Jack Sparrow stay alive, I also take into account 2 important factors. 1: Elizabeth is not going to kill Jack again. I'm willing to argue that. She did it once, it ruined her life, i think she clearly decided not to be that person and never do anything like that again. Second important factor: Jack is smart and capable of protecting himself. He was caught off guard once, but i dont think it will happen again. I would like to give Jack the credit to say, he could be friends with elizabeth or lovers with elizabeth and be able to look after himself just fine.

how is it romantic to be single forever? Well, not single, but to never have meaningful relationships with anyone? That doesn't seem to be romantic to me. Of course, I'm not saying I want to see Jack married with kids, cause I definitely DONT---- no way! But I DO want to see him able to interact with other people. No man is an island. The character of Jack is only fun when he IS interacting with other people... and we love him the most when he is deeply involved with Elizabeth and Will and the other people in his life... when he is risking his life for them, making plans that include saving them, coming back to rescue them, etc. THAT is what makes the character of Captain Jack 300 feet deep instead of a cartoon character that drinks. you know what I'm saying?

So... I don't want to see Jack sailing the high seas with no thought to love or romance forever, only using ladies as sexual gratification when he comes into port. that's a sad caricature of a man, and would be a tragic distortion of any person. I want him to be free, absolutely, but when you find people in life that really understand you and value you for who you are, they won't restrict your freedom by causing you to love them. That's The Alchemist for you.

Originally posted by katelovespirate

So... I don't want to see Jack sailing the high seas with no thought to love or romance forever, only using ladies as sexual gratification when he comes into port. that's a sad caricature of a man, and would be a tragic distortion of any person. I want him to be free, absolutely, but when you find people in life that really understand you and value you for who you are, they won't restrict your freedom by causing you to love them. That's The Alchemist for you.
Captain Jack Sparrow has never met a woman worthy of him during the series. Except I did sort of like that girl in Pirates one who joined his crew. I was hoping they'd develop something with that. That was a pity.

Elizabeth clearly doesn't value you him she restricted his freedom in the worst way. She cuffed him to a mast and left him to die. Thus chaining him up and damning him to death.

yep, and then she regretted it so much she risked her life, will's life, everybody's life to go and bring him back and undo what she did. people make mistakes in life. that's what makes them people and not angels. haha.

and really, if we're going to get back into this argument (which i dont really want to do without lovelyone, willo, and tigers to back me up) we're giving Jack WAYYYY too little credit here to blame the whole situation on Elizabeth. Jack made his choice. He CHOSE to come back, risk his life, and try to fight the kraken and help save everyone. He CHOSE to kiss a woman who was engaged at a time when they all knew they needed to get the heck off that ship. I think, whether consciously or not, he knew what was going on. let's give the guy some credit. does he look shocked when he gets chained? nope. angry? not really. he looks like, "ah... i so called this one."

Originally posted by katelovespirate
yep, and then she regretted it so much she risked her life, will's life, everybody's life to go and bring him back and undo what she did. people make mistakes in life. that's what makes them people and not angels. haha.

and really, if we're going to get back into this argument (which i dont really want to do without lovelyone, willo, and tigers to back me up) we're giving Jack WAYYYY too little credit here to blame the whole situation on Elizabeth. Jack made his choice. He CHOSE to come back, risk his life, and try to fight the kraken and help save everyone. He CHOSE to kiss a woman who was engaged at a time when they all knew they needed to get the heck off that ship. I think, whether consciously or not, he knew what was going on. let's give the guy some credit. does he look shocked when he gets chained? nope. angry? not really. he looks like, "ah... i so called this one."
Killing someone that deliberately and in a premeditated manner is hard for me to accept as a mistake. Elizabeth is just a disgusting person to me.

And Elizabeth didn't just choose to rescue Jack for unselfish reasons and let's not act like his crew and others didn't want to go and get him. And at least they didn't have to feel guilty about killing him to go after him.

Elizabeth belongs with nobody. Even Will is too good for her. Luckily he gets to spend his life on a boat with dead people who are probably far more likeable.

alright i'm done. i do love a good debate, but you just seem pretty negative about all this. elizabeth is like half the film. if you hate her, why do you even bother with the movie?

i think there is a way to appreciate a character, their development and role in the story, without necessarily condoning their actions or thinking they are "good people". just consider that.

Originally posted by katelovespirate
alright i'm done. i do love a good debate, but you just seem pretty negative about all this. elizabeth is like half the film. if you hate her, why do you even bother with the movie?

i think there is a way to appreciate a character, their development and role in the story, without necessarily condoning their actions or thinking they are "good people". just consider that.
I'm not negative I'm a Captain Jack Sparrow fan how weird would it be for me to be sitting here singing the praises of the character who killed him...

I'm not saying you can't have your opinion or like Sparrabeth but surely you can understand why I don't. I'm not a couple shipper I am a character fan first and as a fan of the Captain Jack Sparrow I think it's pretty clear and understandable why I wouldn't care for Elizabeth at all.

"ah, but the murder is what makes it all so deliciously twisted and fun. love between two real pirates? it would be the most unique love story of all times... because pirates inevitably betray each other, break the law, and will do anything to save their own lives and pursue freedom. " - Kate

Kate, that paragraph made my sparrabethy heart sing, i thought it described their relationship perfectly Thanks for posting that

Originally posted by savvysparrowluv
"ah, but the murder is what makes it all so deliciously twisted and fun. love between two real pirates? it would be the most unique love story of all times... because pirates inevitably betray each other, break the law, and will do anything to save their own lives and pursue freedom. " - Kate

Kate, that paragraph made my sparrabethy heart sing, i thought it described their relationship perfectly Thanks for posting that
The Sparrabeth relationship? Murderer and victim?

Wow, what a debate we've got going, lol! I've seen Willabether vs. Sparrabether debates, but I've never seen an Anti-Lizzie against Sparrabeth or any other pairing

I'll cautiously offer a few thoughts of my own on what has already been said

S&B, when Elizabeth killed Jack, I don't think it was pre-determined. People all around her were dying for the sake of that one man, the man who they all loved, but drug them into a lot of trouble - she had to do some quick thinking on what was more important, risking all their lives, or sacrificing one for the good of all. TnT ( I believe it was them) call her the girl who "out-pirated them all", she was really the only one who could do what needed to be done, to act on that impulse to save the others, to become a pirate as Jack coined her- I think it was an impulsive move on her part, she was scared and wanted to save her own skin and the skins of the most people she could. She was willing to do whatever was necessary to accomplish that, she is a true pirate in that sense (at least IMHO).

I agree with Kate that Jack did help choose his own fate, he did choose to come back to the ship, Lizzie just helped his thoughts along by making his decision for him (to put it lightly, lol).

I can understand where you are coming from, I was a Jack Sparrow fan first and foremost for a while, I liked Elizabeth fine but didn't feel anything positive or negative towards her - just nice and neutral. DMC trailer came out and I was hooked on Sparrabeth, I realized all my favorite scenes from COTPB were sparrabeth centric, everything seemed to fall into place. We differ in the fact that I loved Elizabeth's character developement, I loved seeing her grow into a woman and respected Pirate.

I think that Jack actually respects Elizabeth for what she did - yes, she killed him and he's rather miffed (understandably), but he still respects her for doing what she had to do in her mind (in DMC).

Besides, Jack still cavorts around with people who tried to kill him - Barbossa, Tia, Elizabeth, various crew members too, most likely - he's a savvy guy, he doesn't seem to be the type of character to make the same mistake twice.

Okay, not even sure if all that made sense...I hope it did, lol.

Originally posted by savvysparrowluv

Besides, Jack still cavorts around with people who tried to kill him - Barbossa, Tia, Elizabeth, various crew members too, most likely - he's a savvy guy, he doesn't seem to be the type of character to make the same mistake twice.

Okay, not even sure if all that made sense...I hope it did, lol.
But Captain Jack Sparrow and Barbosa have a mutual relationship of trying to kill each other so I can respect that. He doesn't dote on Barbosa or isn't nice to him at all they're constantly competing with each other and trying to one up the other. I enjoy Barbosa in that aspect as he is someone Captain Jack Sparrow is constantly trying to one up and best and Barbosa is constantly trying to stay ahead of Captain Jack Sparrow. And they needed and used each other to their advantages as well.

But I don't think they gave Captain Jack Sparrow and Elizabeth any proper closure on her killing him. He was searching for immortality to the point where he would trade anything and anyone to get it up until the last second in At World's End and yet I'm supposed to beleive he takes his killer lightly? Yeah right. Regardless of her motives or the situation Elizabeth killed Captain Jack Sparrow and to me that's enough to where I don't care for her at all and I don't consider Elizabeth a real pirate either and her becoming Pirate King was contrived and stupid.

I do realize I am among many Sparrabeths though so our arguments will probably be frequent as I am a Captain Jack Sparrow fan with no interest in Frumpy the False Pirate at all but I do respect your right to like what you like I will just never understand or want my favorite pirate with his murderer no matter what reason she killed him.

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee142/FlinthatesBandwidth/jack.jpg

You're right: you have every right to your opinion as I do to mine, but I'm going take my leave here as Kate did. We're all free to speak our opinions on here, its just gotten too negative for me. I agree with Kate: like it or not, Elizabeth is a major part of the film, the writers even call her the real main character of the series.

Originally posted by savvysparrowluv
You're right: you have every right to your opinion as I do to mine, but I'm going take my leave here as Kate did. We're all free to speak our opinions on here, its just gotten too negative for me. I agree with Kate: like it or not, Elizabeth is a major part of the film, the writers even call her the real main character of the series.
I don't think disagreement is negative and really I am the only person here who feels like this it seems. The rest of you are just fighting over who she belongs with after all and most of you are Sparrabeths anyway.

I know Elizabeth is the main character of the film however they wrecked her as the series continued.

Originally posted by katelovespirate
LOVELYONE!!!!!! HIIIII!!!!!!!! We MISS you!!!!!

helloooo, miss you too *huggles*

Hi LovelyOne!

hello^^

Lovely, why have you been gone for so long?!?! We've missed you!!!! HOw's life?!? XOXOXO

S and B, we don't think disagreement is negative. we value all sorts of opinions. i just would prefer to hear sort of clear, well constructed arguments as to why you disliked something particular, as opposed to endless character bashing. i mean, character bashing and frustration definitely has its place, but surely there are other aspects of POTC you would like to discuss with us.

Originally posted by katelovespirate
Lovely, why have you been gone for so long?!?! We've missed you!!!! HOw's life?!? XOXOXO

S and B, we don't think disagreement is negative. we value all sorts of opinions. i just would prefer to hear sort of clear, well constructed arguments as to why you disliked something particular, as opposed to endless character bashing. i mean, character bashing and frustration definitely has its place, but surely there are other aspects of POTC you would like to discuss with us.
I already explained why I didn't like the Elizabeth character. It was a well constructed argument.

While she was an enjoyable and BELIEVABLE heroine in Pirates of the Carribean one I think they lost the essence of the character as the series went on trying to make her into the Pirate King too quickly without little explanation and it made her come off as phony and I also don't appreciate that she killed Captain Jack Sparrow in DMC.

I am not bashing Elizabeth. I'd gladly discuss other characters I really like the rest of the characters and I much prefer to discuss storylines and themes over anything else.

I thought this was a place for Pirates fans but it almost seems like if you don't like Sparrabeth or Elizabeth then you're not welcome here or people will look at you as some kind of ogre. I had no idea because I am active in other movie threads on the board like the Batman thread for example and we disagree all the time way worse than this but the sensitivity here is puzzling to me.

eh, S and B, I don't know what else to say. We all love debating, we love differing opinions, but that doesn't mean we enjoy sitting around bashing. that's the point i was trying to make. i am not the forum moderator, so ignore me if you want. i'm really not bothered.

Perhaps you've heard of Surreal. We had a rip-roaring good time debating with her. so we are capable of it.

I'm not trying to be mean or annoying, but i was just getting really irritated because things seemed to be taking such a negative turn. lol.

Well I was having fun and enjoying trying to see your viewpoints on your favorite ship from the movies and I didn't feel anything was negative at all. But I apologize if I offended anyone that was not my intent I was just being honest about my feelings and thoughts

hugs and drinks all around. i hope you don't feel i was attacking you, because i tend to be a bit outspoken. XOXO

Originally posted by katelovespirate
hugs and drinks all around. i hope you don't feel i was attacking you, because i tend to be a bit outspoken. XOXO
No you have your opinion I don't mind at all I enjoy a good argument and I understand you'd want to protect your forum from trolls. I assure you I am not one I'm a true Pirates fan and I want to be able to have fun and talk to people I don't want to be considered an ogre

We don't think you are an ogre

*partakes in hug and drink fest *

I apologize for being rash, selinandbruce. I think everyone was just on the lookout for a troll. Don't be compelled to leave unless you want to. We're actually pretty fun-loving here and laid back, so just stick with us and get to know us.

Okay, blast it, I would like to say I got my dvd looked at completely and I love the stories about the pirate lords--The 7 seas became 9. Makes me wonder if Barbossa "killed" for his lordship. And Jack's darling back story, that his coin piece of 8, one of two, the twin bought his hat--Jack has his crown from this piracy.

i clearly dont have those extra goodies on mine... care to elaborate??

I don't explain those things well Miz Kateloves, but what I was referring to is on the 2nd disc there is a section on the pirate lords, who came from what ocean, who got there how, like Villanueva's piece of eight was a broken bottle neck that was part of his doing--when it talked about Jack he was the Lord of the Caribbean. His beads came from a Moroccan woman of questionable reputation, his piece of eight, the coin, was one of two, the first booty he ever pirated. He kept the one and bought his hat with the other. The section has a plate with all the Pieces of Eight on it and you click on the different ones for the info. I'm one of those little old ladies that loves the details of whatever, the historical perspective. Tickles me to pieces when there's other little legends or stories about the characters. Like George Washington having wooden false teeth, or finding out that different famous historical people hung out together. Mr. Depp has met or hung out with almost all the actors or musicians I admire--he seems to get on well with others---oh, fyi, there's the ST special on VH1 tonight at 7 p.m. central? and he's going to be on Inside Actor's Studio on Dec. 17. Those are my fun facts for today. So, that's it then.

Oh! Texxy I watched that...plus I know which DVD feature you're talking about and it's my second favorite...right next to the one with Johnny and keith.

The backstories are so cool...especially Jack's

Aw, I just have the basic disc with the 10 minute blooper reel.

well hey, at least smallville are getting it right with the Lois/Clark thing,

reminds me a wee bit of the way i used to feel about J/E. They hate eachother, then start to like eachother and the best part is you KNOW they're gonna end up together, its just how and when and why, they know that Lois is a more interesting, gutsy, rebel character and the relationship is more interesting than Lana/Clark and so the writers play with it..

but the thing is..you dont PLAY with such a hot couple if they are NOT gonna end up together...because the audience will fall in love with that relationship and wont be best amused when you tear it away.

damn you T&T you shoulda just known J/E was meant to be and hired the writers from Smallvlle, or buffy haha

Ah, a Joss Whedon fan. If you like Buffy, you would like Firefly. It didn't last long, but there is a J/E-similar relationship in that you would be into.

Yes, it will always be a mystery as to why T&T didn't even close out sparrabeth properly. Think we would at least have the consolation of a goodbye kiss, SOMETHING! I wonder why they abandoned it. They abandoned a lot to make AWE and everyone suffered, Jack, Liz, Will, everybody.