Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Silver Surfer
Superman

I know these fights have been done to death, but my question is, how can Thor possibly beat someone who can move nearing the speed of light? I have no doubt, if speed wasn't a factor he would pwn them, but they seem too fast. I know Thor has beat the Surfer twice...I'm not interested in evidence from comic book battles between these characters.

I'm more interested in how Thor even HITS either of these characters.

Any thoughts?

I have many.

Yourself?

Originally posted by B.A
I have many.

Yourself?

Not really.

Well, lets say a character can move the speed of light, and can deliver the kind of damage supes or surfer can. imo they can only be defeated by people who can do the same thing.

He swings his hammer at FTL speeds.

Just like how he can fly at 3x lightspeed.

Thor can get wins.

Surfers SOL travel isn't very sophisticated. He can only move during it, he cant fight or multi-task at FTL.

surfer yes
Superman no (in most incarnations anyway)

Originally posted by grey fox
Surfers SOL travel isn't very sophisticated. He can only move during it, he cant fight or multi-task at FTL.

I agree somewhat...Surfer has no speedblitz feats with his fist, maybe a one shot moving at great speeds, but i have not seen him fight in a lightning speed like way

Superman however has many speedblitz feats with his fist and also multitasking, i remember when supes was fighting at lightning speeds and using heat vision, and frost breath....very impressive(training with monguls's son)

Thor has hundreds if not thousands of years of fighting, add to it his hammer

He can beat them.

Just not for anything resembling a majority.

Silver surfer yes...... i seem to remember him takeing on both warlock and surfer at the same time

superman is weak against magic isnt he at thors current strengh levels he doesnt realy stand a chance

Originally posted by llagrok
He swings his hammer at FTL speeds.

Just like how he can fly at 3x lightspeed.
they just ignored this.

it has been stated many times that Thor moves faster than light, and almost as fast as thought, when he wants to.

do i feel like arguing about that right now? no.

I really don't see Thor getting many (if at all) victories against an all-out Superman mostly because of the speed disadvantage.

And I've always seen him and Surfer around the same level.

Originally posted by Horrificus
they just ignored this.

it has been stated many times that Thor moves faster than light, and almost as fast as thought, when he wants to.

do i feel like arguing about that right now? no.

never heard this. any evidence from comics? references? thanks.

Originally posted by Horrificus
they just ignored this.

it has been stated many times that Thor moves faster than light, and almost as fast as thought, when he wants to.

do i feel like arguing about that right now? no.

Speed of light > Speed of thought.

Further, Thor can travel at superluminal speeds, and even twirl his hammer at said speeds.

That doesn't mean he has true superspeed, though.

Originally posted by Soljer
Speed of light > Speed of thought.

Further, Thor can travel at superluminal speeds, and even twirl his hammer at said speeds.

That doesn't mean he has true superspeed, though.

Any reference to Thor moving at superluminal speeds? Could you post them?

Thor could and would probably win any match one-on-one against one of this two.

Originally posted by Old-Wizard.com
Any reference to Thor moving at superluminal speeds? Could you post them?

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/lightspeed0050lh.jpg

without PIS/CIS i dont think Thor can beat Surfer..

Superman.. he can possibly beat

Originally posted by Terryc250
without PIS/CIS i dont think Thor can beat Surfer..

Superman.. he can possibly beat

Why not? He whipped his ass when he was in Warrior Madness, now that he isn't holding back and has returned, his strength should be at where it was in WM mode.

All WM did was allow him to use his full strength, he used to hold back so much you'd think he needs a hall pass to attack someone full force.

Originally posted by Terryc250
without PIS/CIS i dont think Thor can beat Surfer..

Superman.. he can possibly beat

You don't think Thor can beat the Surfer once? Out of ten? Out of a hundred?

Come on.

He beats them both.

Originally posted by Larceny
He beats them both.

A time or two out of ten. .

Thor definitely wins at least 3 or 4 out of 10 against the Surfer, against Superman he wins 49 percent of the time.

Originally posted by Soljer
A time or two out of ten. .

Nope. He defeats Surfer because he's simply more powerful. He either splits or takes the majority against Superman, or vise versa.

He'd do better against Superman then he would against Surfer.

Originally posted by King Kandy
He'd do better against Superman then he would against Surfer.

Yet history points otherwise, especially while Thor is bloodlusted.

The thread title should be "Can Surfer beat any of these two characters". The answer being no.

Originally posted by Larceny
Yet history points otherwise, especially while Thor is bloodlusted.

The thread title should be "Can Surfer beat any of these two characters". The answer being no.
History says that Superman>Surfer? When?

Originally posted by King Kandy
History says that Superman>Surfer? When?

No, continuity says that Thor > Surfer.

Might as well throw Supes in there as well as his feats and above top tier showings are superior to Surfer's as well.

Fighting to their full potential, Thor shouldnt be able to react to thier speed. Thor is fast in the way of travel and arm speed, but he has never imo showed combat speed on the level of either.

Originally posted by Sirius77
Fighting to their full potential, Thor shouldnt be able to react to thier speed. Thor is fast in the way of travel and arm speed, but he has never imo showed combat speed on the level of either.

Yet Surfer rarely if ever displays any hint of combat speed to match his travel speed, and was once shocked at the speed of Mjolnir.

Superman, while consistently shown with outstanding combat speed, is never shown to have combat speed above c or to have ever blitzed at speeds above c.

Thor can split a match with Surfer.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Why not? He whipped his ass when he was in Warrior Madness, now that he isn't holding back and has returned, his strength should be at where it was in WM mode.

All WM did was allow him to use his full strength, he used to hold back so much you'd think he needs a hall pass to attack someone full force. And what if Surfer had a Warrior Maddness mode where he didn't fight like an ass!!?!?!? He would wipe the floor with Thor and Superman!!!!

Originally posted by Soljer
He can beat them.

Just not for anything resembling a majority.

Agreed

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Scans/thorspeed014aw-1.jpg

Speed.

Thor can beat both of them, just probably not for the majority.

If Thor had the mindset of Black Adam he could certainly pull a majority of wins from both of these guys.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
If Thor had the mindset of Black Adam he could certainly pull a majority of wins from both of these guys.

Quite doubtful.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
If Thor had the mindset of Black Adam he could certainly pull a majority of wins from both of these guys.

He's letting loose more in his current appearances, although if surfer and superman went all out, especially the former, Thor letting loose as well does not really mean anything.

Originally posted by Ouallada
He's letting loose more in his current appearances, although if surfer and superman went all out, especially the former, Thor letting loose as well does not really mean anything.

Because his strength is only amplified a tenfold?

Originally posted by llagrok
Because his strength is only amplified a tenfold?

While he does appear to be stronger, I don't recall Warrior Madness to have ever actually been stated to increase his strength or power 10 fold.

Also, Warrior Madness is a self inflicted mind set. If he so chooses, Thor could enter Warrior Madness at any time.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
If Thor had the mindset of Black Adam he could certainly pull a majority of wins from both of these guys.

Which in a sense is correct. While in Warrior Madness, a similar mind set to that of BA's, Thor was dominating Surfer, Adam Warlock, Beta Ray Bill, Drax with the PG, and a host of others.

Originally posted by Ouallada
He's letting loose more in his current appearances, although if surfer and superman went all out, especially the former, Thor letting loose as well does not really mean anything.

This is what Surfer gets when cutting loose against an enraged Thor.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/SilverS15.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/SilverS17.jpg

Originally posted by Larceny
While he does appear to be stronger, I don't recall Warrior Madness to have ever actually been stated to increase his strength or power 10 fold.

Also, Warrior Madness is a self inflicted mind set. If he so chooses, Thor could enter Warrior Madness at any time.

Not according to the Onslaught Saga.

Originally posted by Larceny
This is what Surfer gets when cutting loose against an enraged Thor.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/SilverS15.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/SilverS17.jpg

Didn't Thor have the power gem by that time?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Didn't Thor have the power gem by that time?

Nope.

Originally posted by llagrok
Not according to the Onslaught Saga.

Which wasn't exactly stated to be WM. Only a "Berserker mode". However as is, the Onslaught Saga had skewed continuity throughout the series. Example being the sudden placement of the Cyttorak gem inside Cain's chest.

Originally posted by llagrok
Nope.

Then surfer jobbered yet again. I fail to see how surfer gets to be rated so high on this board when every time I see him, he's getting pwned. Storm's lightning, Thor, Thanos, shit the only one I've seen him beat is hulk.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Didn't Thor have the power gem by that time?

As llagrok said, nope, not even close. Nor did he have it when simultaneously owning Adam Warlock, Surfer, and I believe BRB.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Then surfer jobbered yet again. I fail to see how surfer gets to be rated so high on this board when every time I see him, he's getting pwned. Storm's lightning, Thor, Thanos, shit the only one I've seen him beat is hulk.

He didn't job, he himself already admitted his inferiority to Thor.


Once
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/ThorvsSurferfirstbattle8.jpg

Twice
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/ThorvsSurferfirstbattle10.jpg

Originally posted by Larceny
As llagrok said, nope, not even close. Nor did he have it when simultaneously owning Adam Warlock, Surfer, and I believe BRB.

Where they pulling punches? It would seem that they were trying to help thier mad freind. No way he could over whelm them if they were trying to injure or kill him as he was them.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Then surfer jobbered yet again. I fail to see how surfer gets to be rated so high on this board when every time I see him, he's getting pwned. Storm's lightning, Thor, Thanos, shit the only one I've seen him beat is hulk.

Go read Silver Surfer comics or Annihilation.

Originally posted by Larceny
Which wasn't exactly stated to be WM. Only a "Berserker mode". However as is, the Onslaught Saga had skewed continuity throughout the series. Example being the sudden placement of the Cyttorak gem inside Cain's chest.

Yeah, that's what I thought as well.

Besides, Thor has a slightly different mindset now anyways and has changed a lot.

Originally posted by Larceny
He didn't job, he himself already admitted his inferiority to Thor.


Once
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/ThorvsSurferfirstbattle8.jpg

Twice
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/ThorvsSurferfirstbattle10.jpg

Seems odd considering the surfer can amp. And has on panel controlled far more energy than I've seen Thor control. Also, Superman has admitted to being inferior to DS power a few times, even recently, and yet we dont' take character's personal assessments to heart do we?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Seems odd considering the surfer can amp. And has on panel controlled far more energy than I've seen Thor control. Also, Superman has admitted to being inferior to DS power a few times, even recently, and yet we dont' take character's personal assessments to heart do we?

Thor's wielded enough energy to mess up a celestial, and absorbed one of Kang's galaxy busting bombs.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Where they pulling punches? It would seem that they were trying to help thier mad freind. No way he could over whelm them if they were trying to injure or kill him as he was them.

Look at the scans again. Before being utterly beasted, he makes it blatantly clear that he's no longer holding back.

"I have held back long enough mad Thor. With my bored again beneath my feet. Even a mad god cannot withstand the Silver Surfer's wrath."

He then gets knocked the hell out.

Originally posted by llagrok
Go read Silver Surfer comics or Annihilation.



Yeah, that's what I thought as well.

Besides, Thor has a slightly different mindset now anyways and has changed a lot.

Um, I have surfer comics. Plenty of them. Showings in every infinity saga, his own series, annihilation, the surfer one shots thru the years. I know what i"m talking about. Surfer's feats outside of the presence of Thanos or Thor means he should be well within thier range of abilities. Period. Wait, Why am I discussing this with you. I truly forgot to look at your sig.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Seems odd considering the surfer can amp. And has on panel controlled far more energy than I've seen Thor control. Also, Superman has admitted to being inferior to DS power a few times, even recently, and yet we dont' take character's personal assessments to heart do we?

Thor's warped and shaken the universe with his energy.

Originally posted by Larceny
Look at the scans again. Before being utterly beasted, he makes it blatantly clear that he's no longer holding back.

"I have held back long enough mad Thor. With my bored again beneath my feet. Even a mad god cannot withstand the Silver Surfer's wrath."

He then gets knocked the hell out.

I looked at the scan. Looks like he did the same shit he always does. A true warrior would have just blasted at thor and not given a speech telegraphing his intentions. Surfer got pwned for talking to much and fighting too little. I can get knocked out too if I didn't throw one punch and talked a bunch of shit.

Originally posted by Larceny
Thor's warped and shaken the universe with his energy.

And yet Odin, has only busted up Dead galaxies. hmmmm.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Um, I have surfer comics. Plenty of them. Showings in every infinity saga, his own series, annihilation, the surfer one shots thru the years. I know what i"m talking about. Surfer's feats outside of the presence of Thanos or Thor means he should be well within thier range of abilities. Period. Wait, Why am I discussing this with you. I truly forgot to look at your sig.

Okay, then why

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Then surfer jobbered yet again. I fail to see how surfer gets to be rated so high on this board when every time I see him, he's getting pwned. Storm's lightning, Thor, Thanos, shit the only one I've seen him beat is hulk.

?

Originally posted by llagrok
Thor's wielded enough energy to mess up a celestial, and absorbed one of Kang's galaxy busting bombs.
And yet, Odin and three other skyfathers couldn't even dent one. hmmm

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And yet, Odin and three other skyfathers couldn't even dent one. hmmm

No, Odin lopped off an arm.

Tell me, do people normally try to dent with swords, or do they try to cut with them?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And yet Odin, has only busted up Dead galaxies. hmmmm.

And sent shock waves through every plain of existence, being tearing at the fabric of the multi-verse, destroyed multiple galaxies, knocked over planets like ant hills, easily restored a portion of the universe, reignited suns as side effects of his battles, etc.

I don't think Nvr can handle any more buttrape.

Originally posted by llagrok
I don't think Nvr can handle any more buttrape.

God willing, he's going to try!

Originally posted by Red Shift
God willing, he's going to try!

That not nice.

Originally posted by Larceny
He didn't job, he himself already admitted his inferiority to Thor.


Once
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/ThorvsSurferfirstbattle8.jpg

Twice
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/ThorvsSurferfirstbattle10.jpg

Just a couple of problems with that...

1. Those are both from the same encounter, and it took place a LONG time ago. Surfer's showings have increased significantly since his early days, while Thor's have remained pretty consistent. Now I know that Thor's had an upgrade, but so far all I've seen him do is own Iron Man and levitate Asgard so it's a little early to assume that he's leaps and bounds over his previous self.

2. That was the period of time when Surfer was stranded on Earth(the same time period in which he was nearly taken out by a poisoned cup of coffie and was ko'd by a brick from Karnak). If you're using Surfer's verbal statements as accurate reflections of his power, then you can look at this scan to see just how much he was depowered for the period...
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/6935/silversurfer0233pn1ky6.th.jpg

So before his imprisonment he could have taken the beast out no problem, but during his imprisonment the thing actually gave him a tough fight. That's a pretty significant difference in my mind. And since we're going over past statements, let's skip forward a few years after Surfer was freed and have a look at what Thor's assessment of Surfer's power...
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/8735/page19ta3jc0.th.jpg

3. Yes Surfer was powered up by Loki in those scans, but it was to an unknown degree AND it happened after Surfer had already overpowered Loki(who's given Thor a tough fight on his own on more than one occasion now) so I'm betting it wasn't nearly as much of an amp as it's often made out to be.

4. In the second scan Surfer speaks of Thor's STRENGTH, not his power. I don't think that anyone's ever said that Surfer's physically STRONGER than Thor.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Just a couple of problems with that...

1. Those are both from the same encounter, and it took place a LONG time ago. Surfer's showings have increased significantly since his early days, while Thor's have remained pretty consistent. Now I know that Thor's had an upgrade, but so far all I've seen him do is own Iron Man and levitate Asgard so it's a little early to assume that he's leaps and bounds over his previous self.

2. That was the period of time when Surfer was stranded on Earth(the same time period in which he was nearly taken out by a poisoned cup of coffie and was ko'd by a brick from Karnak). If you're using Surfer's verbal statements as accurate reflections of his power, then you can look at this scan to see just how much he was depowered for the period...
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/6935/silversurfer0233pn1ky6.th.jpg

So before his imprisonment he could have taken the beast out no problem, but during his imprisonment the thing actually gave him a tough fight. That's a pretty significant difference in my mind. And since we're going over past statements, let's skip forward a few years after Surfer was freed and have a look at what Thor's assessment of Surfer's power...
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/8735/page19ta3jc0.th.jpg

3. Yes Surfer was powered up by Loki in those scans, but it was to an unknown degree AND it happened after Surfer had already overpowered Loki(who's given Thor a tough fight on his own on more than one occasion now) so I'm betting it wasn't nearly as much of an amp as it's often made out to be.

4. In the second scan Surfer speaks of Thor's STRENGTH, not his power. I don't think that anyone's ever said that Surfer's physically STRONGER than Thor.

1) No argument here, but this is pretty nice.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Untitled-Scanned-14-1.jpg

2) One thing I've wondered about that though. Asgard is in a completely separate realm from Midgard, and Surfer's powers were only suppressed while within earth's atmosphere. Wouldn't that mean that while on Asgard he had full use of the PC? Also, in his fight with Loki he appeared as if he was back to previous levels.

3) See above.

4) I know.

Originally posted by Larceny
1) No argument here, but this is pretty nice.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Untitled-Scanned-14-1.jpg
I actually consider Thor's older speed feats to be more impressive than that particular one. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to discredit Thor(or yourself) but to me it looked like all he really did was land in front of those people before soldiers pulled the trigger(or while they were in the process of pulling it).

Originally posted by Larceny

2) One thing I've wondered about that though. Asgard is in a completely separate realm from Midgard, and Surfer's powers were only suppressed while within earth's atmosphere. Wouldn't that mean that while on Asgard he had full use of the PC? Also, in his fight with Loki he appeared as if he was back to previous levels.

3) See above.
The thing is that it wasn't Earth that caused Surfer's depowerment, Galactus actually removed Surfer's time/space powers. Now I don't really understand how that would depower him in anything other than Time/Space manipulation(I guess maybe because the relationship between the Power Cosmic and the Universe itself), but that's the way it was always written to be. No time/space powers=weak Surfer(I blame the writing of the time period personally).

Originally posted by Larceny
4) I know.
Cool.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I actually consider Thor's older speed feats to be more impressive than that particular one. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to discredit Thor(or yourself) but to me it looked like all he really did was land in front of those people before soldiers pulled the trigger(or while they were in the process of pulling it).


The thing is that it wasn't Earth that caused Surfer's depowerment, Galactus actually removed Surfer's time/space powers. Now I don't really understand how that would depower him in anything other than Time/Space manipulation(I guess maybe because the relationship between the Power Cosmic and the Universe itself), but that's the way it was always written to be. No time/space powers=weak Surfer(I blame the writing of the time period personally).


Cool.

I didn't mean to post that.....

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Untitled-Scanned-14-1.jpg

I thought the whole series was inconsistent, and as you pointed out, I thought only his time/space manipulation were suppressed.

Originally posted by Larceny
I didn't mean to post that.....

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Untitled-Scanned-14-1.jpg

I thought the whole series was inconsistent, and as you pointed out, I thought only his time/space manipulation were suppressed.
You posted the same thing again .

His time/space powers WERE suppressed, but somehow that actually made him weaker overall than he was previously. I don't understand it either, but there's no denying that he was a lot less powerful during that period.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You posted the same thing again .

His time/space powers WERE suppressed, but somehow that actually made him weaker overall than he was previously. I don't understand it either, but there's no denying that he was a lot less powerful during that period.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Untitled-Scanned-22-2.jpg

And Blood and Thunder?

Originally posted by Larceny
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Untitled-Scanned-22-2.jpg
Ah... but is that REALLY something that's beyond the abilities of Classic Thor? I mean, creating a giant canyon is undeniably cool and all, but Beta Ray Bill destroyed a planet or something like that so I would give Classic Thor credit to do the same(and let's face it, that's a feat that surpasses the canyon feat by a fair margin).

Originally posted by Larceny
And Blood and Thunder?
Impressive arc of showings for Thor, there's no doubt about it. But that's what it was, a single story arc. After Blood and Thunder Thor went right back to the way he's always been shown. Besides, it's not as if he's the first hero to take down a whole group of heroes who should individually give him a tough fight. Spidey's done it to the X-Men, several key JLA members have taken on the rest of the group, the Hulk's taken on the Avengers(including Thor) and the Fantastic Four at the same time, etc..

And don't get me wrong, even though I see Surfer taking the majority against Thor in a forum match I still don't really consider Surfer to be necessarily more powerful(unless he continues to do things like create black holes with energy blast anyway). I just feel that Surfer has the proper abilities at his disposal to take the majority. There are also some people that I would see Thor doing better against than Surfer, it just depends on the individual abilities of the party's involved.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Ah... but is that REALLY something that's beyond the abilities of Classic Thor? I mean, creating a giant canyon is undeniably cool and all, but Beta Ray Bill destroyed a planet or something like that so I would give Classic Thor credit to do the same(and let's face it, that's a feat that surpasses the canyon feat by a fair margin).


Impressive arc of showings for Thor, there's no doubt about it. But that's what it was, a single story arc. After Blood and Thunder Thor went right back to the way he's always been shown. Besides, it's not as if he's the first hero to take down a whole group of heroes who should individually give him a tough fight. Spidey's done it to the X-Men, several key JLA members have taken on the rest of the group, the Hulk's taken on the Avengers(including Thor) and the Fantastic Four at the same time, etc..

And don't get me wrong, even though I see Surfer taking the majority against Thor in a forum match I still don't really consider Surfer to be necessarily more powerful(unless he continues to do things like create black holes with energy blast anyway). I just feel that Surfer has the proper abilities at his disposal to take the majority. There are also some people that I would see Thor doing better against than Surfer, it just depends on the individual abilities of the party's involved.

By no means am I making an attempt to prove current Thor the superior of classic, only displaying something interesting.

Because he was in an enraged set of mind. A set of mind that released him of his conciseness and allowed him to fight with no restraint.

The thing is, when one character is constantly compared to another, a fight between the two is going to hold a lot of weight. The fact that the writer made an attempt to make it explicitly clear that both weren't holding back, the outcome of the bout is going to lead most, at least me, that one character is more powerful than the other. Hence the basis of my beliefs that Thor's power eclipses Surfer's.

Fair enough, I simply see i the other way around. Massive absorption abilities, energy levels capable of warping the universe, defensive capabilities on a semi-universal scale? I think Thor has what it takes to slide out with the majority.

Originally posted by Larceny
By no means am I making an attempt to prove current Thor the superior of classic, only displaying something interesting.
Oh ok. Well like I said it IS impressive(and I absolutely love the artwork).

Originally posted by Larceny
Because he was in an enraged set of mind. A set of mind that released him of his conciseness and allowed him to fight with no restraint.
Have you ever seen what Surfer's capable of when HE'S in a similar state? I know that Surfer SAID he was going to stop holding back, but he actually says that quite a bit and it's almost never true. When Surfer was in an enraged/insane state, he maimed the Super Skrull(who's given Thor a tough fight on a couple of occasions now) with a single punch, and evolved an entire planet(and all the being on it) by BILLIONS of years in a matter of moments.

Originally posted by Larceny
By no means am I making an attempt to prove current Thor the superior of classic, only displaying something interesting.
Oh ok. Well like I said it IS impressive(and I absolutely love the artwork).

Originally posted by Larceny
Because he was in an enraged set of mind. A set of mind that released him of his conciseness and allowed him to fight with no restraint.
Have you ever seen what Surfer's capable of when HE'S in a similar state? I know that Surfer SAID he was going to stop holding back, but he actually says that quite a bit and it's almost never true. When Surfer was in an enraged/insane state, he maimed the Super Skrull(who's given Thor a tough fight on a couple of occasions now) with a single punch, and evolved an entire planet(and all the being on it) by BILLIONS of years in a matter of moments.


Originally posted by Larceny
The thing is, when one character is constantly compared to another, a fight between the two is going to hold a lot of weight. The fact that the writer made an attempt to make it explicitly clear that both weren't holding back, the outcome of the bout is going to lead most, at least me, that one character is more powerful than the other. Hence the basis of my beliefs that Thor's power eclipses Surfer's.
Yes but at the same time, if everything BUT to characters actually confrontations suggest that one character should win while the direct confrontations suggest differently, then I think the overall showings should take precedent since the direct confrontations seem to be the exception rather than the rule. Think about it, Wonderman and Namor's direct confrontations suggest that they can give Thor quite a fight, but everything else that we've seen suggest that Thor should take either with a fair amount of ease... so which is more valid? Also, I don't doubt that the writer of Blood and Thunder considered Thor to be more powerful than Surfer, but at the same time the writer of that Avengers comic obviously considered Surfer to be more powerful or Thor wouldn't have said that Surfer's warning blast nearly killed him. Writers come and go, so the opinion of any single writer(or group of writers working jointly on a preplanned arc) don't hold a lot of weight in the grand scheme of things.


Originally posted by Larceny
Fair enough, I simply see i the other way around. Massive absorption abilities, energy levels capable of warping the universe, defensive capabilities on a semi-universal scale? I think Thor has what it takes to slide out with the majority.
See with me it's the advantage in speed, versatility, and tendency to actually USE exotic things like BFR and transmutation that give Surfer the win, as well as better showings against foes that both have taken on at one point in time or another.

Now before you start in about the versatility statement I'll explain what I mean. Don't get me wrong, both are capable of things like energy manipulation, transmutation, etc., but Surfer has shown a much finer degree of control in most categories. Thor might be able to transmute one type of substance into another, but Surfer can can actually use transmutation to create complex devices like machinery or alter the genetic makeup of sentient organics to a very specific purpose. Thor USED to be able to accomplish basic time travel, but Surfer can do that AND he can harness and control actual temporal and spacial energy for various uses. I freely acknowledge that Mjolier is also capable of some things that Surfer isn't, but overall there are more things that Surfer can do that Thor can't than vice versa.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I looked at the scan. Looks like he did the same shit he always does. A true warrior would have just blasted at thor and not given a speech telegraphing his intentions. Surfer got pwned for talking to much and fighting too little. I can get knocked out too if I didn't throw one punch and talked a bunch of shit.

Dude, it's a comic. Everyone talks a lot.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Oh ok. Well like I said it IS impressive(and I absolutely love the artwork).


Have you ever seen what Surfer's capable of when HE'S in a similar state? I know that Surfer SAID he was going to stop holding back, but he actually says that quite a bit and it's almost never true. When Surfer was in an enraged/insane state, he maimed the Super Skrull(who's given Thor a tough fight on a couple of occasions now) with a single punch, and evolved an entire planet(and all the being on it) by BILLIONS of years in a matter of moments.


Oh ok. Well like I said it IS impressive(and I absolutely love the artwork).


Have you ever seen what Surfer's capable of when HE'S in a similar state? I know that Surfer SAID he was going to stop holding back, but he actually says that quite a bit and it's almost never true. When Surfer was in an enraged/insane state, he maimed the Super Skrull(who's given Thor a tough fight on a couple of occasions now) with a single punch, and evolved an entire planet(and all the being on it) by BILLIONS of years in a matter of moments.



Yes but at the same time, if everything BUT to characters actually confrontations suggest that one character should win while the direct confrontations suggest differently, then I think the overall showings should take precedent since the direct confrontations seem to be the exception rather than the rule. Think about it, Wonderman and Namor's direct confrontations suggest that they can give Thor quite a fight, but everything else that we've seen suggest that Thor should take either with a fair amount of ease... so which is more valid? Also, I don't doubt that the writer of Blood and Thunder considered Thor to be more powerful than Surfer, but at the same time the writer of that Avengers comic obviously considered Surfer to be more powerful or Thor wouldn't have said that Surfer's warning blast nearly killed him. Writers come and go, so the opinion of any single writer(or group of writers working jointly on a preplanned arc) don't hold a lot of weight in the grand scheme of things.



See with me it's the advantage in speed, versatility, and tendency to actually USE exotic things like BFR and transmutation that give Surfer the win, as well as better showings against foes that both have taken on at one point in time or another.

Now before you start in about the versatility statement I'll explain what I mean. Don't get me wrong, both are capable of things like energy manipulation, transmutation, etc., but Surfer has shown a much finer degree of control in most categories. Thor might be able to transmute one type of substance into another, but Surfer can can actually use transmutation to create complex devices like machinery or alter the genetic makeup of sentient organics to a very specific purpose. Thor USED to be able to accomplish basic time travel, but Surfer can do that AND he can harness and control actual temporal and spacial energy for various uses. I freely acknowledge that Mjolier is also capable of some things that Surfer isn't, but overall there are more things that Surfer can do that Thor can't than vice versa.
I just noticed that I copied my first two points on accident, please ignore the mistake as it's too late for me to edit...

Originally posted by darthgoober
Oh ok. Well like I said it IS impressive(and I absolutely love the artwork).


Have you ever seen what Surfer's capable of when HE'S in a similar state? I know that Surfer SAID he was going to stop holding back, but he actually says that quite a bit and it's almost never true. When Surfer was in an enraged/insane state, he maimed the Super Skrull(who's given Thor a tough fight on a couple of occasions now) with a single punch, and evolved an entire planet(and all the being on it) by BILLIONS of years in a matter of moments.


Oh ok. Well like I said it IS impressive(and I absolutely love the artwork).


Have you ever seen what Surfer's capable of when HE'S in a similar state? I know that Surfer SAID he was going to stop holding back, but he actually says that quite a bit and it's almost never true. When Surfer was in an enraged/insane state, he maimed the Super Skrull(who's given Thor a tough fight on a couple of occasions now) with a single punch, and evolved an entire planet(and all the being on it) by BILLIONS of years in a matter of moments.



Yes but at the same time, if everything BUT to characters actually confrontations suggest that one character should win while the direct confrontations suggest differently, then I think the overall showings should take precedent since the direct confrontations seem to be the exception rather than the rule. Think about it, Wonderman and Namor's direct confrontations suggest that they can give Thor quite a fight, but everything else that we've seen suggest that Thor should take either with a fair amount of ease... so which is more valid? Also, I don't doubt that the writer of Blood and Thunder considered Thor to be more powerful than Surfer, but at the same time the writer of that Avengers comic obviously considered Surfer to be more powerful or Thor wouldn't have said that Surfer's warning blast nearly killed him. Writers come and go, so the opinion of any single writer(or group of writers working jointly on a preplanned arc) don't hold a lot of weight in the grand scheme of things.



See with me it's the advantage in speed, versatility, and tendency to actually USE exotic things like BFR and transmutation that give Surfer the win, as well as better showings against foes that both have taken on at one point in time or another.

Now before you start in about the versatility statement I'll explain what I mean. Don't get me wrong, both are capable of things like energy manipulation, transmutation, etc., but Surfer has shown a much finer degree of control in most categories. Thor might be able to transmute one type of substance into another, but Surfer can can actually use transmutation to create complex devices like machinery or alter the genetic makeup of sentient organics to a very specific purpose. Thor USED to be able to accomplish basic time travel, but Surfer can do that AND he can harness and control actual temporal and spacial energy for various uses. I freely acknowledge that Mjolier is also capable of some things that Surfer isn't, but overall there are more things that Surfer can do that Thor can't than vice versa.

Meh, the arts ok. I don't like the way he draws Thor though, looks like an NFL linebacker.

I've seen an enraged Surfer, and while impressive, imo he doesn't quite stack up to Thor. People don't quite grasp the impressiveness of the self imposed state of warrior madness, and while it was talk, we cannot ignore what was said. He was simultaneously tearing through a team of characters that according to the general populace reside in the upper echelon of herald level characters, including a supposedly enraged Surfer.

Super Skrull? He's been owned by Thor as well, in fact he was shown to be helpless before the power of Thor

Impressive, but more so that some of the more impressive moments of Thor?

However the situation is different in this case. Thor and Surfer's feats are so similar in impressiveness that interpretation of who's more powerful is left up to direct comparison. Where as with Wonder Man and Namor their feats are completely dwarfed to the point where direct comparison is unnecessary to determine who's more powerful.

True enough, but what we have to come down too after outside feats is direct comparison. Which fortunately for my case, leans towards Thor.

An advantage of speed travel speed that rarely if ever translates into combat speed.

Versatility that is matched by Mjolnir. In fact it's not a stretch to say that throughout each characters history, Thor has shown more capabilities threw Mjolnir than Surfer has with the Pc.

Again, on average Thor uses more exotic powers than Surfer, and I can almost guarantee he's used BFR as a tactic many more times than Surfer has.

Transmutation? Thor's done it. Actually altering the genetic makeup of sentient being.

Who do you have in mind? From my knowledge Thor has a better record against top tiers, and those above top tier than Surfer does. You know The Destroyer, Mangog, Surtur and Ymir, Galactus, etc.

Originally posted by Tron
Dude, it's a comic. Everyone talks a lot. You are correct.

Originally posted by Larceny
The Destroyer, Mangog, Surtur and Ymir, Galactus, etc. Didn't he die against the Destroyer? Almost get beat to death another time... got his hammer cut in half, etc.
Oh wait, he managed to BFR Destroyer...

Mangog... he got one-shotted by Mangog once, made to look like a fool many times...
Oh wait, he managed to kill a weaker one with a series of cheapshots.

Surtur... he got beat by him before...
Oh wait, he managed to BFR both of them, when they weren't paying attention.

Galactus... Almost got killed by him... got taken out by fog from Galactus...
Oh wait, he managed to chase off a weak Galactus with a cheapshot Godblast.

Couldn't resist. ermm

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Didn't he die against the Destroyer? Almost get beat to death another time... got his hammer cut in half, etc.
Oh wait, he managed to BFR Destroyer...

Mangog... he got one-shotted by Mangog once, made to look like a fool many times...
Oh wait, he managed to kill a weaker one with a series of cheapshots.

Surtur... he got beat by him before...
Oh wait, he managed to BFR both of them, when they weren't paying attention.

Galactus... Almost got killed by him... got taken out by fog from Galactus...
Oh wait, he managed to chase off a weak Galactus with a cheapshot Godblast.

Couldn't resist. ermm

Which in a forum battle would be considered a win.

Yes he did...

Yes he did...

Yes he did...

It's ok, it had no influence on my post. ermm

Originally posted by Larceny
Which in a forum battle would be considered a win.

Yes he did...

Yes he did...

Yes he did...

It's ok, it had no influence on my post. ermm And these two are big and sluggish like Destroyer... and also just killed Thor prior to...

Ignoring context...

Ignoring context...

Ignoring context...

OK.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
And these two are big and sluggish like Destroyer... and also just killed Thor prior to...

Ignoring context...

Ignoring context...

Ignoring context...

OK.

Is it necessary to state every loss before acknowledging a victory? ermm

Originally posted by Larceny
Is it necessary to state every loss before acknowledging a victory? ermm Yes.

Even though the only victory you really named was against the Destroyer... by BFR (and there's always a reason Thor results to BFR).

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Yes.

Even though the only victory you really named was against the Destroyer... by BFR (and there's always a reason Thor results to BFR).

No.

Usually killing or chasing someone off is considered a victory, regardless if the fight was fair.

Originally posted by Larceny
Usually killing or chasing someone off is considered a victory, regardless if the fight was fair. So... cheapshots are considered victories nowadays?

Weird... although I guess I have to take back some statements about Hulk not beating Thor more than once...

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
So... cheapshots are considered victories nowadays?

Weird... although I guess I have to take back some statements about Hulk not beating Thor more than once...

Well yeah.... if that cheapshot leads to the defeat of the character. At lest thats how fights typically are around here.

Originally posted by Larceny
Well yeah.... if that cheapshot leads to the defeat of the character. At lest thats how fights typically are around here. Hulk beats Thor?

No they aren't...

Originally posted by Larceny
I've seen an enraged Surfer, and while impressive, imo he doesn't quite stack up to Thor. People don't quite grasp the impressiveness of the self imposed state of warrior madness, and while it was talk, we cannot ignore what was said. He was simultaneously tearing through a team of characters that according to the general populace reside in the upper echelon of herald level characters, including a supposedly enraged Surfer.
Well there we'll just have to agree to disagree. I mean yes, the whole "Warrior Madness" thing was undoubtedly impressive, but that's the only real time there's even been a significant difference shown. Even in the grips of Warrior Madness, he was only able to defeat Adam Warlock as Him because Adam decided to lower his force fields and take him on man to man, and he was also given a tough time by Maestro if I'm not mistaken. And again if you want to get hung up on what was said by the characters, then Surfer can kill Thor with a warning blast.

Originally posted by Larceny
Super Skrull? He's been owned by Thor as well, in fact he was shown to be helpless before the power of Thor
But the Super Skrull actually fought Thor right before the Blood and Thunder arc and Thor didn't do anywhere near as well as Surfer did when he was in HIS insane state. Thor won of course but there was a fight first, Surfer STARTED off the fight maiming him, and it just got worse from there(Super Skrull was telling Surfer to just kill him by the time the fight was over).

Originally posted by Larceny
Impressive, but more so that some of the more impressive moments of Thor?
I don't know what you're responding to here...

Originally posted by Larceny
However the situation is different in this case. Thor and Surfer's feats are so similar in impressiveness that interpretation of who's more powerful is left up to direct comparison. Where as with Wonder Man and Namor their feats are completely dwarfed to the point where direct comparison is unnecessary to determine who's more powerful.
Ok then which would you prefer to look at, the direct confrontation between Supes and Thor or the outside evidence?

Originally posted by Larceny
True enough, but what we have to come down too after outside feats is direct comparison. Which fortunately for my case, leans towards Thor.
But one or two direct confrontations don't outweigh ALL the outside feats. If they'd had 4 or 5 strait up fights it would be one thing, but all you're going by is an instance where Surfer's power level is HIGHLY debatable, and an instance of Thor in a powered up mode where he's more impressive than he's been in his whole career. Given the circumstances, the outside evidence seems to be a bit more relevant in my mind.

Originally posted by Larceny
An advantage of speed travel speed that rarely if ever translates into combat speed.
Maybe not combat speed in the manner of Supes, but if Surfer's using his board to fly and maneuver he's still got a significant advantage over Thor in that department. You forget, Surfer's shown a remarkable amount of evasive ability on his board and routinely flys circles around his foes while blasting away.

Originally posted by Larceny
Versatility that is matched by Mjolnir. In fact it's not a stretch to say that throughout each characters history, Thor has shown more capabilities threw Mjolnir than Surfer has with the Pc.

Again, on average Thor uses more exotic powers than Surfer, and I can almost guarantee he's used BFR as a tactic many more times than Surfer has.
I can all but guarantee I can come up with more exotic uses for the Power Cosmic than you can come up with for Thor. Tell you what, we can have a "Scan Off" where you show Thor doing something with his hammer and I'll match it with something similar from Surfer's Power Cosmic and we'll see who runs out first. And I said things LIKE BFR, it's entirely possible that Thor's directly BFR'd more foes, but Surfer's resorts to things along those lines more often from what I've seen. Plus, Surfer can actually pull a win via BFR on Thor while the opposite can't be said.

Originally posted by Larceny
Transmutation? Thor's done it. Actually altering the genetic makeup of sentient being.
When was this? You're not talking about the Absorbing Man thing are you?

Originally posted by Larceny
Who do you have in mind? From my knowledge Thor has a better record against top tiers, and those above top tier than Surfer does. You know The Destroyer, Mangog, Surtur and Ymir, Galactus, etc.
And Surfer has wins over guys like a Watcher, and the Uni-Lord, and has stalemated the likes of Korvac(who put a hurting on Thor and many others simultaneously).

But what I was refering to, was their showings against people that they've both fought against. Surfer has better showings against Loki, Durok, Super Skrull, the Hulk, Air Walker, Firelord, Ronan, Wonder Man, and Millinius.

Also... since Surfer's more powerful, we all saw how many times he was able to hit Thor in the first fight.

Perhaps?

Originally posted by darthgoober
But what I was refering to, was their showings against people that they've both fought against. Surfer has better showings against Loki, Durok, Super Skrull, the Hulk, Air Walker, Firelord, Ronan, Wonder Man, and Millinius.

Naw, now you're just desperate.

- Thor killed Air Walker
- Thor stalemated Firelord, when Firelord beat the Surfer
- Thor was about to kill Kl'rt before Moondragon stopped him

How about when Thor just recently beat up the fenris wolf AND Loki with Mjolnir. Surfer does NOT have better showings against Loki, who in fact was able to punch SS off his board.

You know Blood and Thunder arc was made to look like all asgard being are far more superior than the rest.

I mean Dr. Strange, Surfer, Adam Warlock and the Infinity Watch where taken out by a gang of Asgardian thieves and 2 Ogre but against BRB and Sif this thugs where no match...

And here take a look at this..

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8616/brbcu4.th.jpg

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/8494/brb1kt0.th.jpg

BRB single handedly took WMThor out and it shows that the heroes where mostly there to subdue him. They could have whip his @ss right there, if BRB wanted too.
Originally posted by Larceny
This is what Surfer gets when cutting loose against an enraged Thor.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/SilverS15.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/SilverS17.jpg

Thats a faky.. Check the scan below..

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/2213/silversurferv3105p12mk3.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5638/silversurferv3105p13ak7.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/1125/silversurferv3105p16bg8.jpg
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/7110/silversurferv3105p17ec7.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2818/silversurferv3105p18yz0.jpg

see the difference..

Originally posted by llagrok
Naw, now you're just desperate.


Originally posted by llagrok
- Thor killed Air Walker
I never said that he didn't, I said that Surfer had a better showing against him(which he did). Put it this way, the Thor/Air Walker fight went back and forth and lasted a total of 6 pages. What's more, Air Walker had Thor down on the ground when a little kid that he'd befriended started begging him to leave Thor alone because Air Walker was about to kill him. Air Walker decided to leave Thor alone for the boy and go ahead on his quest to kill Surfer. Then when Air Walker didn't want to fight anymore Thor took him out with his hammer. Here are the last two scans of the fight if you need your memory refreshed...
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5826/thor198130517fb5.th.jpg
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7154/thor198130518gm8.th.jpg

On the other hand when Surfer beat Air Walker(which he did first by the way), the fight lasted a grand total of two pages...
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/4844/fantasticfourv112119ye8.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/3369/fantasticfourv112120pv7.jpg

Now are you honestly going to try to say that Thor's victory(which took 6 pages total, and required assistance from a little kid) over Air Walker was more impressive than Surfers(which took 2 pages and involved no outside interference)?


Originally posted by llagrok
- Thor stalemated Firelord, when Firelord beat the Surfer
That's ALL Thor's ever managed to do(at least to my immediate recollection), stalemate him. Yes Surfer's lost once to Firelord, but he has also actually BEATEN Firelord twice now. So again, Surfer has the better record(unless you consider a two to one win/loss ratio to be the same as a 50/50 ratio(which is effectively what a stalemate is, a tie).

Originally posted by llagrok
- Thor was about to kill Kl'rt before Moondragon stopped him
Yes she did have to stop him, but Thor took him out after the two of them fought toe to toe for a few pages. Surfer on the other hand started off kicking his ass and that was pretty much the situation through out the entire fight.

Originally posted by llagrok
How about when Thor just recently beat up the fenris wolf AND Loki with Mjolnir. Surfer does NOT have better showings against Loki, who in fact was able to punch SS off his board.
I haven't seen the Fenris/Loki vs Thor confrontation(though I don't doubt it happened) so I can't speak on it.

As for Surfer vs Loki, how do you NOT see Surfer's fight with him as being more impressive than Thor's? We've already established that Surfer was SEVERELY weakened during the period of time when he was on Earth, and that's the very period in which he beat Loki? Thor at normal power vs Loki= a good fight with Thor coming out on top, SEVERELY weakened Surfer vs Loki= a ok fight with Surfer coming out on top.

And knocking Surfer off his board for a bit during a fight doesn't really mean much when you take into consideration that Surfer was still the one to walk away the victor so I don't really get your point there.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I never said that he didn't, I said that Surfer had a better showing against him(which he did). Put it this way, the Thor/Air Walker fight went back and forth and lasted a total of 6 pages. What's more, Air Walker had Thor down on the ground when a little kid that he'd befriended started begging him to leave Thor alone because Air Walker was about to kill him. Air Walker decided to leave Thor alone for the boy and go ahead on his quest to kill Surfer. Then when Air Walker didn't want to fight anymore Thor took him out with his hammer. Here are the last two scans of the fight if you need your memory refreshed...

Silver Surfer ripped Air Walker's cape off, that's pure luck. Thor actually threw his hammer straight through him, Norrin was attacking randomly when he attempted to take down Air Walker. He got lucky.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes she did have to stop him, but Thor took him out after the two of them fought toe to toe for a few pages. Surfer on the other hand started off kicking his ass and that was pretty much the situation through out the entire fight.

Thor wasn't really bloodlusted when fighting Super Skrull, who used his powers A LOT better against Thor than he did against the Surfer. Besides, you can't really say that Thor was bloodlusted, he was caught by surprise and got a little angry. He didn't really go all out, ANYONE can see that.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I haven't seen the Fenris/Loki vs Thor confrontation(though I don't doubt it happened) so I can't speak on it.

As for Surfer vs Loki, how do you NOT see Surfer's fight with him as being more impressive than Thor's? We've already established that Surfer was SEVERELY weakened during the period of time when he was on Earth, and that's the very period in which he beat Loki? Thor at normal power vs Loki= a good fight with Thor coming out on top, SEVERELY weakened Surfer vs Loki= a ok fight with Surfer coming out on top.

And knocking Surfer off his board for a bit during a fight doesn't really mean much when you take into consideration that Surfer was still the one to walk away the victor so I don't really get your point there.

As Thor's? Have you read all of Loki's fights against Thor?

Just stroll over to Thor's respect thread and check out a couple of them. Thor physically defeated Loki w/hammer and Fenris, after Loki had taken over Asgard. Thor didn't even have his hammer, he just flat out kicked their ass. Far more impressive than the Surfer's fight against him.

Or how about the time when Thor killed Loki? Even though Loki was experiencing a huge power-up, Thor still beat him.

This is turning into a real ABC discussions. Let's draw the line here.

Originally posted by Roldz
You know Blood and Thunder arc was made to look like all asgard being are far more superior than the rest.

I mean Dr. Strange, Surfer, Adam Warlock and the Infinity Watch where taken out by a gang of Asgardian thieves and 2 Ogre but against BRB and Sif this thugs where no match...

And here take a look at this..

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8616/brbcu4.th.jpg

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/8494/brb1kt0.th.jpg

BRB single handedly took WMThor out and it shows that the heroes where mostly there to subdue him. They could have whip his @ss right there, if BRB wanted too.


Thats a faky.. Check the scan below..

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/2213/silversurferv3105p12mk3.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5638/silversurferv3105p13ak7.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/1125/silversurferv3105p16bg8.jpg
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/7110/silversurferv3105p17ec7.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2818/silversurferv3105p18yz0.jpg

see the difference..

No, I didn't know that.... they all looked equally as incompetent against Thor.


Yeah I see the difference. One instance is against a Character at the echelon of top tier beings, and the other is against a mid tier at best. A mid tier thats already been depicted as helpless against Thor.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Well there we'll just have to agree to disagree. I mean yes, the whole "Warrior Madness" thing was undoubtedly impressive, but that's the only real time there's even been a significant difference shown. Even in the grips of Warrior Madness, he was only able to defeat Adam Warlock as Him because Adam decided to lower his force fields and take him on man to man, and he was also given a tough time by Maestro if I'm not mistaken. And again if you want to get hung up on what was said by the characters, then Surfer can kill Thor with a warning blast.


But the Super Skrull actually fought Thor right before the Blood and Thunder arc and Thor didn't do anywhere near as well as Surfer did when he was in HIS insane state. Thor won of course but there was a fight first, Surfer STARTED off the fight maiming him, and it just got worse from there(Super Skrull was telling Surfer to just kill him by the time the fight was over).


I don't know what you're responding to here...


Ok then which would you prefer to look at, the direct confrontation between Supes and Thor or the outside evidence?


But one or two direct confrontations don't outweigh ALL the outside feats. If they'd had 4 or 5 strait up fights it would be one thing, but all you're going by is an instance where Surfer's power level is HIGHLY debatable, and an instance of Thor in a powered up mode where he's more impressive than he's been in his whole career. Given the circumstances, the outside evidence seems to be a bit more relevant in my mind.


Maybe not combat speed in the manner of Supes, but if Surfer's using his board to fly and maneuver he's still got a significant advantage over Thor in that department. You forget, Surfer's shown a remarkable amount of evasive ability on his board and routinely flys circles around his foes while blasting away.


I can all but guarantee I can come up with more exotic uses for the Power Cosmic than you can come up with for Thor. Tell you what, we can have a "Scan Off" where you show Thor doing something with his hammer and I'll match it with something similar from Surfer's Power Cosmic and we'll see who runs out first. And I said things LIKE BFR, it's entirely possible that Thor's directly BFR'd more foes, but Surfer's resorts to things along those lines more often from what I've seen. Plus, Surfer can actually pull a win via BFR on Thor while the opposite can't be said.


When was this? You're not talking about the Absorbing Man thing are you?


And Surfer has wins over guys like a Watcher, and the Uni-Lord, and has stalemated the likes of Korvac(who put a hurting on Thor and many others simultaneously).

But what I was refering to, was their showings against people that they've both fought against. Surfer has better showings against Loki, Durok, Super Skrull, the Hulk, Air Walker, Firelord, Ronan, Wonder Man, and Millinius.

Got school.... I'll post later.

Thor can get wins on them, they can get wins on him, unless of course you mean them as a team, in which case he's ****ed.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Well there we'll just have to agree to disagree. I mean yes, the whole "Warrior Madness" thing was undoubtedly impressive, but that's the only real time there's even been a significant difference shown. Even in the grips of Warrior Madness, he was only able to defeat Adam Warlock as Him because Adam decided to lower his force fields and take him on man to man, and he was also given a tough time by Maestro if I'm not mistaken. And again if you want to get hung up on what was said by the characters, then Surfer can kill Thor with a warning blast.


But the Super Skrull actually fought Thor right before the Blood and Thunder arc and Thor didn't do anywhere near as well as Surfer did when he was in HIS insane state. Thor won of course but there was a fight first, Surfer STARTED off the fight maiming him, and it just got worse from there(Super Skrull was telling Surfer to just kill him by the time the fight was over).


I don't know what you're responding to here...


Ok then which would you prefer to look at, the direct confrontation between Supes and Thor or the outside evidence?


But one or two direct confrontations don't outweigh ALL the outside feats. If they'd had 4 or 5 strait up fights it would be one thing, but all you're going by is an instance where Surfer's power level is HIGHLY debatable, and an instance of Thor in a powered up mode where he's more impressive than he's been in his whole career. Given the circumstances, the outside evidence seems to be a bit more relevant in my mind.


Maybe not combat speed in the manner of Supes, but if Surfer's using his board to fly and maneuver he's still got a significant advantage over Thor in that department. You forget, Surfer's shown a remarkable amount of evasive ability on his board and routinely flys circles around his foes while blasting away.


I can all but guarantee I can come up with more exotic uses for the Power Cosmic than you can come up with for Thor. Tell you what, we can have a "Scan Off" where you show Thor doing something with his hammer and I'll match it with something similar from Surfer's Power Cosmic and we'll see who runs out first. And I said things LIKE BFR, it's entirely possible that Thor's directly BFR'd more foes, but Surfer's resorts to things along those lines more often from what I've seen. Plus, Surfer can actually pull a win via BFR on Thor while the opposite can't be said.


When was this? You're not talking about the Absorbing Man thing are you?


And Surfer has wins over guys like a Watcher, and the Uni-Lord, and has stalemated the likes of Korvac(who put a hurting on Thor and many others simultaneously).

But what I was refering to, was their showings against people that they've both fought against. Surfer has better showings against Loki, Durok, Super Skrull, the Hulk, Air Walker, Firelord, Ronan, Wonder Man, and Millinius.

If the thread were about Adam Warlock and Meastro than you may have a point, however those two have no relevance to the topic at hand. Simply put, Surfer during that arc was completely outmatched.

So would you have me ignore what Surfer said?

He's also fought Thor in other instances and been severely outmatched. Also, notice he difference in attitude between Surfer's instance, and Thor's.(I need to find the entire fight but this pretty much sums it up)

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/antiforcesuperskrull1ex2.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/antiforcesuperskrull2fp2.jpg

The million beings thing.

I actually don't consider their fight canon, so I have no opinion either way. However based on prior history of each character I believe a fight between the two would go differently than depicted. However I believe the same about Surfer and Thor, a simply believe Thor's the better of the two and would take the majority.

I never said that I base my opinion completely on a single showing, I only use that instance as it's the only instance besides their first where Thor was depicted as more powerful. I'd use the first, but it's shady.

Thats the only instance in which Thor was ever actually bloodlusted. That and when he shortly battled Arshiem before being killed.

Fine, but since you made the claim I'll allow you to begin with the scans. Also, I believe Thor's resorted to BFR more times than Surfer, and it's possible either character could pull a win employing this tactic.

Yes....

Thor's stalemated Zeus for months, a said rival of the skyfather who one-shotted Surfer. He also has great showings against Celestials and other above top tier characters.

Surfer's showings against Loki aren't better.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/ThorvsLokiandFenris.jpg

His showings against Durok aren't better, In fact Durok had a great showing against Surfer even breaking his board. Against Thor?

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/BetaThor1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/BetaThor2.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/BetaThor3.jpg

I've already shown his fight with Super Skrull above....

Hulk? Lets see..... No Odin power, no Mjolnir, bare hands.....

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Thorvseverybody6.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Thorvseverybody7.jpg

Thor killed Airwalker as well.

He stalemated Firelord. Surfer's beaten him and lost to him, hardly a better showing.

Can't comment on the last few.....

I'm enjoying this though. Great discussion.

Dude, why pull out a flashback from "the reigning" to prove that Thor can beat the Hulk? xD

Originally posted by llagrok
Dude, why pull out a flashback from "the reigning" to prove that Thor can beat the Hulk? xD

Because it happened...... and Thor had lost possession of Mjolnir and the Odin Power.

But this should suffice as well.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Thorowninghulk1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Thorowninghulk2.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Thorowninghulk3.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Thorowninghulk4.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Thorowninghulk5.jpg

Why is the debate of surfer and thor power going on, they are basically equals. A fight between the two are 50/50. Now when I say this, dont take it out of content. POWERWISE (made sure I capatalized that so that you'll understand), Silver surfer and Thor>>>superman, basically the entire jla besides a gl. BUT superman could take some wins against thor, (Im not going to say surfer because I think that surfer would rape superman).

Thor vs Superman 6/10 or 7/10, in thors favor, due to magic, having 1000's of years of training, having combat speed himself and is just as strong, if not stronger than superman.

Originally posted by jmcnasty
Why is the debate of surfer and thor power going on, they are basically equals. A fight between the two are 50/50. Now when I say this, dont take it out of content. POWERWISE (made sure I capatalized that so that you'll understand), Silver surfer and Thor>>>superman, basically the entire jla besides a gl. BUT superman could take some wins against thor, (Im not going to say surfer because I think that surfer would rape superman).

Thor vs Superman 6/10 or 7/10, in thors favor, due to magic, having 1000's of years of training, having combat speed himself and is just as strong, if not stronger than superman.


I never thought I'd see the day.

I don't think I've ever debated the fine art of Surfer vs Thor before (today was my only post towards the subject I believe in dept). Just felt like pointing that out.

Surfer wins.