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all ROTS all out!!

Yoda

Yoda with difficulty

Originally posted by Darth Hord
Yoda with difficulty

Yoda.

Force Wise Yoda is far above Mace. A saber duel is closer, MUCH closer. But Mace himself acknowledges that he is no where near Yoda's Force mastery in Shatterpoint. Yoda takes an all out fight for sure.

Yoda

Yoda with reasonable ease.

Yoda.

mace. superior duelist. Beat palp were yoda could only stalemate.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
mace. superior duelist. Beat palp were yoda could only stalemate.

Yoda. Superior duelist. Mace only defeated Palpatine via the intricate nature of Vaapad, which works primarily against dark siders. Yoda is not a dark sider.

actaully it does not work against dark side user it uses dark side powers. it work just as well against yoda.

yoda has not shown at all to be superior. He shown to be inferior, by only stalemating palp were mace beat palp.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
actaully it does not work against dark side user it uses dark side powers. it work just as well against yoda.

No, sorry. It creates a "superconducting loop" of the dark side. Ergo, in order for Mace to really give into the nature of Vaapad, his opponent must be insidious and dark in nature, which Yoda is not.



No, Yoda is superior. Mace will not be able to utilize Vaapad to its fullest extent against Yoda, who is faster and knows all seven forms. He wins.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
all ROTS all out!!

Battle setting?

Originally posted by Gideon
No, sorry. It creates a "superconducting loop" of the dark side. Ergo, in order for Mace to really give into the nature of Vaapad, his opponent must be insidious and dark in nature, which Yoda is not.Originally posted by Gideon
No, Yoda is superior. Mace will not be able to utilize Vaapad to its fullest extent against Yoda, who is faster and knows all seven forms. He wins.

false he can use it verse yoda. actaully mace is faster. actaully yoda has not master or even study vaapad. Mace on the other hand has master every form of light saber combat.

Yoda.

Mace is faster than Yoda?
Are you kidding? lol

Originally posted by Battlehammer
false he can use it verse yoda.

Now that you've taken the liberty of making the claim, you now have to support it. The RotS novelization disagrees; Yoda generates no dark side energy, ergo logic concludes that the "superconducting loop" will not take place. Even though Windu will remain a master swordsman even without that advantage, he will not be able to defeat Yoda.



You need to familiarize yourself with the burden of proof. Mace does not generate speeds that surpass Yoda's, in fact, the only time that he seems to rival Yoda in terms of speed is when he is "submerged in Vaapad" which -- as we've proven -- will not take place.



Yoda has studied Vaapad, he speaks as an authority on the form in Shatterpoint. Whether or not he practices the form remains to be seen, though I will agree that there's nothing to indicate that he mastered it at all. Not that it's necessary, as Vaapad won't be mastering anyone here.

I'm afraid that Yoda wins this. His control and mastery of the Force is much greater and he has a parity with Mace as a swordsman. Windu confirms this in Dark Rendezvous when he says that he's "not Yoda's equal in peace or war" -- dueling or otherwise.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
mace has not shown at all to be superior.

Corrected.

Lightsaber combat - Mace Windu was getting overwhelmed in combat by Palpatine - whom had already expended quite a bit of energy in taking out the other Jedi - before fully immersing himself in Vaapad. He would get no such advantage against Yoda, who was able to outclass the same Palpatine in saber combat and disarm him. Yoda is the clear superior here.

Force combat - Mace Windu has actually displayed greater power with the force (most notably levitating about a hundred tonnes of rock), and has no qualms with using the force lethally.

Yet, in the same book that wanks him off, Mace admits firm inferiority to the Ancient Jedi Master, though this can in part be attributed to personal bias.

Yoda also possesses experience that overshadows Mace's, and is largely acknowledged as being the most powerful Jedi of his age.

However, his ancient and frail body acts as a huge limitation, in the sense that large usages of the force tire his body out quicker than it would others, it struggles to perform such large force usages (watch the movies, Yoda's body actually shakes virtually every time he has to generate an abundance of force energies whilst in combat), and he constantly has to use the force to strengthen his body in battle.

I think it's really close, personally. The fact that Mace would have no problem with actually trying to kill Yoda by using the Force means he would be able to dictate the flow of their battle. With his Shatterpoint talent, there's nobody better at doing that than he. He would know where and when Yoda would be most vulnerable.

I'd give it to Yoda, but it's a struggle, and Mace might be able to win once every three battles or so.

Originally posted by NateGreySummers

Force combat - Mace Windu has actually displayed greater power with the force (most notably levitating about a hundred tonnes of rock), and has no qualms with using the force lethally.

Wasn't he stated to have used *all* of his concentration for that feat? I doubt he can pull of the same move against yoda seeing he needed every spec of focusing to accomplish that feat.

He's not saying Mace would be able to do that against Yoda, he is merely pointing out what he is capable of doing with the Force.

Though, if Mace was able to do such feat, then I am sure Yoda also is. Yoda is the superior Force-user of the two and the superior fighter in general. There is nothing suggesting otherwise.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg216/NikKingMan/Yoda.jpg

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg216/NikKingMan/BLAHBLAH.jpg

Which source is that Pyron?

Powers of the Jedi Sourcebook.

I like that quote... notice though it says they are perhaps equal in skill. Mace being a padawan compared to Yoda is therefore probably referring to Force Knowledge and other Jedi knowledge, and not fighting ability.

Agreed. Yoda would win with difficulty.

Originally posted by Gideon
No, sorry. It creates a "superconducting loop" of the dark side. Ergo, in order for Mace to really give into the nature of Vaapad, his opponent must be insidious and dark in nature, which Yoda is not.


No, Yoda is superior. Mace will not be able to utilize Vaapad to its fullest extent against Yoda, who is faster and knows all seven forms. He wins.


No, he wouldn't need to necessarily feed of dark energy from Yoda - Vapaad's first core tenent is using the dark energy within yourself to fuel your attacks and defenses.

Yoda wouldn't have to be dark for Vapaad to work completely against him.

I don't know, If this is Mace after he managed to beat Sidious, I see a small margin of possible victory against Yoda.

The other guy was right, Mace could beat Sidious - Yoda couldn't.
So who's really better?

Especially If Mace perceives his Shatterpoint and strikes it.

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
No, he wouldn't need to necessarily feed of dark energy from Yoda - Vapaad's first core tenent is using the dark energy within yourself to fuel your attacks and defenses.

Yoda wouldn't have to be dark for Vapaad to work completely against him.

I don't know, If this is Mace after he managed to beat Sidious, I see a small margin of possible victory against Yoda.

The other guy was right, Mace could beat Sidious - Yoda couldn't.
So who's really better?

yoda wins, but i agree with your opinion of vapaad. Read shatterpoint as a source. it uses the dark side within the user, NOT their opponent.

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
No, he wouldn't need to necessarily feed of dark energy from Yoda - Vapaad's first core tenent is using the dark energy within yourself to fuel your attacks and defenses.

Yoda wouldn't have to be dark for Vapaad to work completely against him.

I don't know, If this is Mace after he managed to beat Sidious, I see a small margin of possible victory against Yoda.

The other guy was right, Mace could beat Sidious - Yoda couldn't.
So who's really better?


Yoda wins, ask yourself this, of the 2 duels in ROTS, Mace against Sidious and Yoda against Sidious, which fight would have been harder to win if you were Sidious's opponent? Imagine Mace trying to dodge senate pods for example, I don't think he would have faired too well. For me those duels came down to environment, if Yoda had been in Mace's position, I believe you would have seen the same result,(Yoda with his lightsaber in Sidious's face as Anakin enters the room), however if Mace would have been in Yoda's position, and would have had to face Sidious in the senate chamber "alone", I believe Mace would been dead, because the environment was much more difficult to deal with. And also In the Yoda and Sidious battle, it's not as if Yoda "lost" the duel, it all came down to a lightning explosion that separated the two, if not for that, it's quite likely Yoda would have ended up winning the duel, as he was beginning to overcome Sidious's lightning.

I allways thought Yoda was better then Mace when it came to using the force but when it came to fighting with the saber Mace takes that.

Originally posted by Kazenji
I allways thought Yoda was better then Mace when it came to using the force but when it came to fighting with the saber Mace takes that.

i think yoda was slightly above mace in both areas of combat to be honest. Part of my reasoning is simply how small and agile Yoda was, a much smaller target for an enemy to hit with his lightsaber. i agree with wolfpacks's post though: if Yoda had fought sidious in his office like mace did, yoda woulda killed him too. he wouldn't have tried to arrest him like mace did. Or maybe he would have tried to catch Sidious's lightning in his hands, and been "exploded" out the window....

Yoda was called in the ROTS novel "the most devastatingly powerful fore the darkness had ever known" (of course Luke would surpass him later on)