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Why is it that some people who have acquired HIV never get sick ? (Even without taking meds, for over a decade)

Well, it is 1 in 300? So, about 0.33%?

That's a pretty reasonable proportion to not be as susceptible, just naturally.

Trouble is, you would find similar proportions resistant to a flu outbreak, doesn't mean they will help cure the flu.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, it is 1 in 300? So, about 0.33%?

That's a pretty reasonable proportion to not be as susceptible, just naturally.

Trouble is, you would find similar proportions resistant to a flu outbreak, doesn't mean they will help cure the flu.


I think your point about the Flu is very interesting...


There is technically no cure for the Flu, yet most of us beat it all the time. Yes, to some Influenza can be deadly. But most of us just overcome it within weeks, and return to normal state of health afterward.


There's no cure for Asthma either. But I had it as a child. I had it for for years, until around age 5-6 I over came it. I never had an Asthma attack since, I am now 21.

Unfortunately, my freind has Asthma, she's 19. She's had it for five years, and every year she gets atleast one Asthma attack. I think stress is the trigger.


There's no cure for Epilepsy either. My brother had it as a child, for almost a decade. He was hospitalized for years. At age 10, we took him off the Phenobarbitol, and little by little he overcame it.

He's a huge video game player. My family was always in fear that his excessive video game play could enhance the epilepsy or trigger more attacks. He is now 14, and hasn't had an attack since he was 10 years old.



The Human Body is amazing, and everyone's body works differently. There are so many people living with HIV who never took the meds, and haven't been sick for over a decade, because the virus, for whatever reason, is never able to progress in their system.


Yet we hear more about the suffering and deaths of people, then we do the survival stories. And we also tend to meet any survival story with skepticism, yet we easily and readily accept an unfortunate story.

Closed Mind much ?

Err, not really., We hear more about the dying than those who are not because... the dying make up, by those numbers, pretty much 99.7% of those affected.

It is just a matter of keeping things in proportion. The fact of the matter is- and if you ignore this truth you are just being deliberately self-ignorant- that for the vast majority of those with HIV it is a death sentence. That's the really important difference between HIV and flu, btw.

The fact that for an extremely small amount of people it is not... is basically neither here nor there. It's just dumb luck and nothing else.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Err, not really., We hear more about the dying than those who are not because... the dying make up, by those numbers, pretty much 99.7% of those affected.

http://www.aidsmap.com/en/news/6EE4B273-F8FE-4FC8-90DD-AFAD45A375BE.asp


Yes, but the mortality rates are declining.


And the majority of people who die early of HIV/AIDS are in Africa where poverty and lack of food exist.

You have to consider the other conditions. You seem to be ignoring them.

A person's personal health, habits, lifestyle, ecomomic status, diet, excersize, and mentality have huge effects on detemining life expectancy.




Originally posted by Ushgarak
It is just a matter of keeping things in proportion. The fact of the matter is- and if you ignore this truth you are just being deliberately self-ignorant- that for the vast majority of those with HIV it is a death sentence. That's the really important difference between HIV and flu, btw.


But you are being equally self-ignorant when you fail to consider the fact that the majority of people dying from HIV AIDS are impoverous, and have already had pure health to begin with. Not to mention that many people who are infected with HIV also take harmful drugs, and engage in other habits which increase the decline of thier health and immunity.

I've met a man at my school seminar who has had HIV for 16 years. He's never gotten sick. Ofcourse he has had his meds, and he has taken them religiously, but he never got an oppurtunistic infection. His immune system has never suffered as a result of the virus. He works just like any regular person, and you would never be able to tell he was infected.

And he's a Black Gay man. According to stats, black people and gay people have been high percentage victims of the HIV related death.


Ofcourse HIV/AIDS should not be taken lightly. It can certainly be a death sentence, but for those of who it does become the death sentence, there are far more factors which contribute to death than just the virus itself.

Diet, excersize, mentality, and many other factors greatly increase life expectancy. It's the nihilist attitude which leads to faster death. Please keep that in mind.




Originally posted by Ushgarak
The fact that for an extremely small amount of people it is not... is basically neither here nor there. It's just dumb luck and nothing else.



There's no such thing as "dumb luck" in science.


That's a cop out of an answer.

Face it:

Some people have HIV and are living perfectly healthy lives. Every person's body and health is different. There are far more approaches to promoting health than just Westernized Medicine.

it has to do with the proportion of cytotoxic t-cells in the blood combined with HLA-DR protien or rather lack of it as this is the primary protein that HIV utilises from the bodies own white blood cells when it replicates

also HIV is a slow acting retrovirus anyway...although people think when they hear that HIV "leads to" AIDS that they are different diseases when they are not...the only difference is the white cell count...once the cd4 count in below 200 then it is consider aids

Good Lord, SOD, you are very weird about these things.

For a start, that decline dates from ten years ago when we started to do anything about HIV at all. Obviously there is going to be a difference between when we are treating people and when we are not. But that's not a cure, or anything close to a cure.

I don't even see how that poverty point is even slightly relevant to absolutely anything at all. What point are you trying to hit me with? That poor people are more likely to have unhealthy bodies and are more likely to die of things? May as well tell me the sky is blue.

Your lazy reflection of a 'self-ignorant' argument on me is simple idiocy. My mind is very open and taking in all sensible circumstances. Whereas you get terribly distracted by irrelevancies. For example, like you telling an anecodte about some guy you know. Woo-bloody-hoo. You know some guy. What actual relevance does an anecdote about a single case have? Bugger all. Waste of time for you to post that.

My attitude is not in the slightest bit nihilist. Like nearly any disease, up to and inclluding cancer, AIDS can be managed to improve your life expectancy. But it is simple scientific fact that for the vast majority of those infected it will kill them, sooner or later. And you are completely confusing- with all this talk of poverty and lifestyle- the aspect of managing the disease, which all suffers really have to do, and being resistant to it, which is what the original article talks of.

'Dumb luck' IS a good answer, as anyone looking at this issue with qany sense would realise- you are born like it. Born more resistant or not. And if you are lucky enough to be one of the 1 in 300 who is more resistant, then rgeat. But it's just luck. Nothing else.

Sorry to burst your bubble- but you are in dire need of perspective. Thr truth of the matter is thus- all that article tells us is that if you are very lucky you might be more resistant to AIDS than the average person. That's all.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny






Why is it that some people who have acquired HIV never get sick ? (Even without taking meds, for over a decade)

Isn't that what the Doctors are asking in the articles you cite?
If we knew, we could tell them.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Good Lord, SOD, you are very weird about these things.


What ? I see examples of how people are surviving and I'm bringing it up, how is that being wierd ?




Originally posted by Ushgarak
For a start, that decline dates from ten years ago when we started to do anything about HIV at all. Obviously there is going to be a difference between when we are treating people and when we are not. But that's not a cure, or anything close to a cure.


But that's my point exactly. People who die of HIV/AIDS earliest are people who are already unhealthy, poor, or untreated. That could happen with almost any disease. ANY disease which inhabits a body malnourished, stressed, weakened, starved, impoverous, and untreated will kill the person.

People have the ability to extend thier lifespan by how they treat themselves. So no, HIV/AIDS is not an automatic death sentence. People are living twenty years longer than what was expected years back.





Originally posted by Ushgarak
I don't even see how that poverty point is even slightly relevant to absolutely anything at all. What point are you trying to hit me with? That poor people are more likely to have unhealthy bodies and are more likely to die of things? May as well tell me the sky is blue.


But you seem to be ignoring the point though....

You keep mentioning how many people have died of HIV/AIDS as an argument that once you get it, you're dead.

And I am reminding you that the majority of people who have succumb to this disease so fast, are infact the impoverous, stressed, and prior unhealthy, which predominantly reside in Africa, and other parts of the world where poverty is rampant and life is hard.

So my point being, it isn't the virus or disease itself which leads to such an early death, but the circumstances in which the person is experienced.

If you have proper diet, lowered stress level, correct medication dosage, etc. your chances of living a long life increase.




Originally posted by Ushgarak
Your lazy reflection of a 'self-ignorant' argument on me is simple idiocy. My mind is very open and taking in all sensible circumstances. Whereas you get terribly distracted by irrelevancies. For example, like you telling an anecodte about some guy you know. Woo-bloody-hoo. You know some guy. What actual relevance does an anecdote about a single case have? Bugger all. Waste of time for you to post that.



LOLZ are you fkn kidding me ?


There are millions of people suffering from this illness, I am sure they would like to know how a few people survived it !

How is it irrelevant at all ? If you had a disease which was supposed to kill you in a few years, and you hear a case where someone else beat it, it would not be relevant to you ?




Originally posted by Ushgarak
My attitude is not in the slightest bit nihilist. .


My freind, it is entirely nihilistic.


I am bringing up cases of survival, and anomalies where people acquire HIV are still healthy and live long without any medications and without progression to AIDS.

And here you are shooting them down, trying to convince people with HIV that it's over for them. Here I am trying to say, no it's not. Hang on. There's Hope. You can live much longer than expected, and it's even possible that you can beat it. Others have.

Whose being nihilistic ?




Originally posted by Ushgarak
Like nearly any disease, up to and inclluding cancer, AIDS can be managed to improve your life expectancy. But it is simple scientific fact that for the vast majority of those infected it will kill them, sooner or later. And you are completely confusing- with all this talk of poverty and lifestyle- the aspect of managing the disease, which all suffers really have to do, and being resistant to it, which is what the original article talks of.


Some people are resistant to it for unknown reasons. The most recent explanation is that the elite patients, for genetic reasons, have proteins on thier T-Cells which do not allow the virus entry into the nucleus. Therefore, the virus cannot reproduce, and thus has no affect on the immune system or health of the person.

Those who do not have this natural resistance, have to manage like you say.

However, I am telling you: I met a man in an HIV/AIDS school seminar, whose have HIV for 16 years. He's taken his meds and is now down to 4 pills a day.

He is full weight, his mental faculties are in order, he works every day and sleeps well. He claimed he has never gotten severely sick in all 16 years of being infected (while most people with HIV get exxagerated FLU and COLD symptoms).

What does that tell you ?


The way you treat yourself, the foods you eat, the habits you have, and the mentality you have keep you going. If you live a stressful life, eat poor, treat yourself like crap, your chances of dying come much much much quicker.

Keep in mind: These medications for HIV/AIDS do not enchance the immune system by any direct means. They simply make it more difficult for the virus to replicate. The meds normally need to be changed and thier combinations as well, since virus can mutate to adapt to the medication.

However, some people actually do things to improve thier immune system. Certain foods, certain minerals and vitamins enhance the T-Cell and NK cells responses and health.


I've done research on this topic for a while, and it makes me no expert, however, I feel the "doom and gloom" mentality does more harm than the virus itself.




Originally posted by Ushgarak
'Dumb luck' IS a good answer, as anyone looking at this issue with qany sense would realise- you are born like it. Born more resistant or not. And if you are lucky enough to be one of the 1 in 300 who is more resistant, then rgeat. But it's just luck. Nothing else.


"Dumb Luck" is an idiot answer

Dumb Luck doesn't really exist. It's simply our perception for something we can't understand. You should realize that.

Resistant or not, if one with the illness works to take care of themselves, they can extend thier life. I'm not saying its easy or something to think of lightly, what I am saying is for those to stay positive. Other people are surviving and recovering from what they suffer from,

You mentioned far earlier that this doesn't mean there's a Cure.



There's no cure of Asthma, Epilespy, or a list of other diseases either.

Yet I myself beat Asthma at an early age. My brother overcame Epilepsy as well. We already know there are a lot of people who beat Cancer.

Just because something does not have a universal cure does not mean one cannot cure him or herself. I'm not saying it's easy to rid yourself of something as grandiose as HIV, but if you one keeps it in thier mind that they will die early then guess what..they will.





Originally posted by Ushgarak
Sorry to burst your bubble- but you are in dire need of perspective. Thr truth of the matter is thus- all that article tells us is that if you are very lucky you might be more resistant to AIDS than the average person. That's all.



So we should ignore it ?

Scientists and doctors should over look it, and not somehow find a way to replicate this protein process in those not born with it ?

That's a wondorful Solution Ushgarak ! You're truly inspiring !

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, it is 1 in 300? So, about 0.33%?

That's a pretty reasonable proportion to not be as susceptible, just naturally.

Trouble is, you would find similar proportions resistant to a flu outbreak, doesn't mean they will help cure the flu.

Look up "CCR5 gene immune to HIV" (or similar) in Google... there's a small percentage of the population that are genetically different and virtually immune to the HIV virus.

Last I read, this genetic immunity came up/or prospered when Europe was hit with the plague; it also makes you immune to smallpox and possibly other plague type diseases.

Edit: I Googled, here's one hit of many.

http://www.thetech.org/genetics/news.php?id=13

"Cells with the CD4 receptor are an important part of the body's system for fighting all diseases (our immune system). HIV gradually destroys these cells and cripples the immune system.

It turns out that CD4 isn’t enough. Another protein called CCR5 is needed as well. CCR5, called a co-receptor because it works with CD4, is the door that opens to allow HIV to enter the cell.

Many people who are resistant to HIV have a mutation in the CCR5 gene called CCR5-delta32. The CCR5-delta32 mutation results in a smaller protein that isn’t on the outside of the cell anymore. Most forms of HIV cannot infect cells if there is no CCR5 on the surface.

People with two copies of the CCR5 delta32 gene (inherited from both parents) are virtually immune to HIV infection. This occurs in about 1% of Caucasian people."

I won't comment on the AIDS thing, but I did notice SoD a couple times introduced completely new material then accused Ush of ignoring the material in the same post, obviously before he was able to respond or even made aware of the info.

Also, in his most recent post he took Ush's calm assessment of mortality rates and tried to turn it into Ush being insensitive toward dying patients, and presumably inferring that doctors should ignore living patients and attempts for a cure. He said no such thing, nor did he imply it.

I empathize as much as the next person about AIDS victims SoD. But your anger is misplaced, and your debating tactics are shady, at best, in this thread. I'd try to act with a bit more class if I were you.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I won't comment on the AIDS thing, but I did notice SoD a couple times introduced completely new material then accused Ush of ignoring the material in the same post, obviously before he was able to respond or even made aware of the info.

Also, in his most recent post he took Ush's calm assessment of mortality rates and tried to turn it into Ush being insensitive toward dying patients, and presumably inferring that doctors should ignore living patients and attempts for a cure. He said no such thing, nor did he imply it.

I empathize as much as the next person about AIDS victims SoD. But your anger is misplaced, and your debating tactics are shady, at best, in this thread. I'd try to act with a bit more class if I were you.


What are you talking about ?

I didnt' accuse Ushgarak of anything of that sort. I never said he was being insensitive towards dying patients.

And I'm not angry at all. Sorry If I appeared that way.


My point is there are cases where HIV is being slowed dramatically, cases where people are immune, and cases where people supposedly have beaten it.

I think these cases should be looked at, not ignored. I'm surprised it doesn't strike more attention in the first place.