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Kal against two of the lesser Heralds

who wins ?

No matter how much Terrax has jobbed... I can't see Supes winning.

Superman is NOT going to be able to beat these two at the same time. He's good. But not that good. even surfer can't beat both of them at the same time. Galactus doesn't make his heralds that far apart in power.

team

I see him 1 shoting terrax then duking it out with firelord

Team

Present continuity Superman might win. particularly under a Sun which was not yellow or red as he seems to be pulling new powers out of his arse in such situations. Under normal circumstances he would lose. I think location is key to this one as big blues powers vary so much with things like proximity to a yellow or blue sun.

Supes will one-hit ko Firelord in the first nanosecond. This is because Firelord was koed by a force more than a million times less and with less speed (Spiderman). And then Supes easily destroys Terrax.

Hillarious responses

Originally posted by Inhuman
Hillarious responses

Speed is the king of all things.
Please think about this.

Originally posted by h1a8
Supes will one-hit ko Firelord in the first nanosecond. This is because Firelord was koed by a force more than a million times less and with less speed (Spiderman). And then Supes easily destroys Terrax. Is Superman faster than everyone in the marvel universe? Can no one react to his speed?

Superman loses here.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Is Superman faster than everyone in the marvel universe? Can no one react to his speed? ddid he say that?

idiot

Originally posted by smashyou
ddid he say that?

idiot Really that poster acts like most of marvel characters have no answer for his speed. Please smash you just chill out,ok.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Is Superman faster than everyone in the marvel universe? Can no one react to his speed?


That's clearly false, surely there is someone who can. But Firelord can't react to it, so he gets koed faster than what spiderman did. After that, who cares, for Superman is whipping Terrax's butt faster than DD whipped DS's butt. This is a very very easy fight for Superman to win.

Team

Under Normal circumstances, Firelord Or terrax, should give superman a hard fight and then lose. But together, They won't.

Originally posted by h1a8
Supes will one-hit ko Firelord in the first nanosecond. This is because Firelord was koed by a force more than a million times less and with less speed (Spiderman). And then Supes easily destroys Terrax.


Or Firelord KOes Superman in the first nanosecond since he was KOed by a gas station explosion, which is more than a billion times less powerful than the blasts Firelord can unleash.

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Or Firelord KOes Superman in the first nanosecond since he was KOed by a gas station explosion, which is more than a billion times less powerful than the blasts Firelord can unleash.

FL isn't that fast in battle. Superman hits him first.

Originally posted by h1a8
FL isn't that fast in battle. Superman hits him first.

I dont' know. Firelord seems pretty fast to me. And even if Superman hits him first, IT's not like Firelord is a Teen Titan or something. He's a herald. He's practically invulnerable. He won't go down easily.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Under Normal circumstances, Firelord Or terrax, should give superman a hard fight and then lose. But together, They won't.

If writer's think that a furious Spiderman (with class 40 strength) can ko Firelord after a series of a few hits then why don't you think Superman can do it in one hit since he is more than a billion times stronger and more than a billion times faster (speed and strength adds up don't it?). Now energy durability isn't the same as physical durability. And writer's show that Firelords physical durability sucks.

Also, I've seen a scan here of even Captain America seriously putting a hurting on Terrax with some fine kicks and a shield thrust into his head with all his might. Now the shield might be sharp and indestructible but it was still Caps 1-5 ton strength helping a lot. Note: Not responding to a peak human's speed tells you about Terrax's reaction speed as well (it sucks!).

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Or Firelord KOes Superman in the first nanosecond since he was KOed by a gas station explosion, which is more than a billion times less powerful than the blasts Firelord can unleash.






You are correct sir...


Relatively easy win for team.

Originally posted by Tony Stark
You are correct sir...


Relatively easy win for team.

Nah!
Superman koes firelord in one punch faster than firelord can respond.
Then he commences to engage Terrax for an easy win.

Originally posted by h1a8
If writer's think that a furious Spiderman (with class 40 strength) can ko Firelord after a series of a few hits then why don't you think Superman can do it in one hit since he is more than a billion times stronger and more than a billion times faster (speed and strength adds up don't it?). Now energy durability isn't the same as physical durability. And writer's show that Firelords physical durability sucks.

Also, I've seen a scan here of even Captain America seriously putting a hurting on Terrax with some fine kicks and a shield thrust into his head with all his might. Now the shield might be sharp and indestructible but it was still Caps 1-5 ton strength helping a lot. Note: Not responding to a peak human's speed tells you about Terrax's reaction speed as well (it sucks!).

I think that you are using PIS and low showings to make a point. Superman has been hurt by far less people than Either Terrax or Firelord. Hell he's constantly having problems with METALLO. Toyman. To name a few. Superman had problems fighting the boy cheetah once. In the end, These two are both heralds, and even if they are below him in power, they aren't so low that he would be able to steam roll either one in a 1v1. So I dont' think he can beat them 2v1. IMO.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I think that you are using PIS and low showings to make a point. Superman has been hurt by far less people than Either Terrax or Firelord. Hell he's constantly having problems with METALLO. Toyman. To name a few. Superman had problems fighting the boy cheetah once. In the end, These two are both heralds, and even if they are below him in power, they aren't so low that he would be able to steam roll either one in a 1v1. So I dont' think he can beat them 2v1. IMO.

Not true. PIS only applies when a character's entire history contradicts that moment(s). There is no proof whatsoever that Firelord has the reflexes, nor battle speed, nor durability to be able to not lose from one single fast punch of Superman (even if you use the best of their feats as the truth). While there is plenty of proof showing that Superman shouldn't have any problems with the boy cheetah, toyman, and such and thus rendering those instances as PIS. If Firelord being koed by spiderman is a low showing then it is astronomically weaker than what Superman can do in a nanosecond. So I don't think (especially without proof) that Firelord can withstand and respond to a mighty fast Superman punch.

True, these heralds are not too far in power behind Superman. But you should know that power has no bearing on speed. One can has all the power in the world (except speed) and yet easily lose to someone who has the speed.
Speed rules all (even those with the power to destroy a universe).

Originally posted by h1a8
Not true. PIS only applies when a character's entire history contradicts that moment(s). There is no proof whatsoever that Firelord has the reflexes, nor battle speed, nor durability to be able to not lose from one single fast punch of Superman (even if you use the best of their feats as the truth). While there is plenty of proof showing that Superman shouldn't have any problems with the boy cheetah, toyman, and such and thus rendering those instances as PIS. If Firelord being koed by spiderman is a low showing then it is astronomically weaker than what Superman can do in a nanosecond. So I don't think (especially without proof) that Firelord can withstand and respond to a mighty fast Superman punch.

True, these heralds are not too far in power behind Superman. But you should know that power has no bearing on speed. One can has all the power in the world (except speed) and yet easily lose to someone who has the speed.
Speed rules all (even those with the power to destroy a universe).

*Sighs* Superman isn't overly faster than any herald. Not by so much that you think he can steam roll two of them. And since when does it make sense that Firelord can with stand the rigors of interstellar space travel, and yet get knocked out by spiderman. Do you know what space travel would do to someone like spiderman? The speed alone with leave him scattered across the cosmos.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
*Sighs* Superman isn't overly faster than any herald. Not by so much that you think he can steam roll two of them. And since when does it make sense that Firelord can with stand the rigors of interstellar space travel, and yet get knocked out by spiderman. Do you know what space travel would do to someone like spiderman? The speed alone with leave him scattered across the cosmos.


Battle speed is not traveling speed. And yes Superman is overly faster than any herald in terms of battle speed and instant acceleration. I'm sure you will agree that he is at least fast enough to land the first blow (or couple of blows) against any herald. This is all it takes here. I've never seen Firelord with the battle speed to even stop someone like Superman from even hitting them first. And this stuff is not real science. Hell, even batman survived the vacuum of space for a while without blowing up or freezing or burning up.

So I disagree with the notion that one needs mega physical durability to survive intstellar travel in comics. Now surviving the cosmic rays in space is called energy durability and not physical. And know that Space hardly has any friction in it. So traveling fast in it only requires one to survive the mere vacuum motionless. And surviving the absence of pressure in space only requires one to be somewhat durable with no building pressure on the inside of them. Since those who can survive the vacuum of space are either alien or very durable then it is understood that its possible for them.

So again, Firelord surviving a trillion ton punch without being koed just sounds ridiculous. Thor is nowhere as strong as Superman and he can f**K SS with a good hammer blow. And SS is more durable than Firelord. If one punch from Superman isn't enough then certainly Superman can tag on a few more trillion ton punches in nanoseconds. And writers think that Superman is strong enough to jar Juggernaut. What do you think they think Superman can do to firelord? Writer's intentions plays a good part in things here. It is clear from all the writers of firelord and Superman that firelord is paper to Superman's fists.
Afterwards, Terrax wouldn't have blinked once before his partner is koed. If I see that Firelord can take a physical strike near the level of Superman then I would totally agree with you. Because I don't see any defense against the beginning onslaught of Superman against Firelord.

Originally posted by h1a8
Battle speed is not traveling speed. And yes Superman is overly faster than any herald in terms of battle speed and instant acceleration. I'm sure you will agree that he is at least fast enough to land the first blow (or couple of blows) against any herald. This is all it takes here. I've never seen Firelord with the battle speed to even stop someone like Superman from even hitting them first. And this stuff is not real science. Hell, even batman survived the vacuum of space for a while without blowing up or freezing or burning up.

So I disagree with the notion that one needs mega physical durability to survive intstellar travel in comics. Now surviving the cosmic rays in space is called energy durability and not physical. And know that Space hardly has any friction in it. So traveling fast in it only requires one to survive the mere vacuum motionless. And surviving the absence of pressure in space only requires one to be somewhat durable with no building pressure on the inside of them. Since those who can survive the vacuum of space are either alien or very durable then it is understood that its possible for them.

So again, Firelord surviving a trillion ton punch without being koed just sounds ridiculous. Thor is nowhere as strong as Superman and he can f**K SS with a good hammer blow. And SS is more durable than Firelord. If one punch from Superman isn't enough then certainly Superman can tag on a few more trillion ton punches in nanoseconds.
Afterwards, Terrax wouldn't have blinked once before his partner is koed. If I see that Firelord can take a physical strike near the level of Superman then I would totally agree with you. Because I don't see any defense against the beginning onslaught of Superman against Firelord.

Do I need to give you a lesson in science? There are millions of free floating particles in space. Moving at light speed would make each one of those free floating particles, no matter how small,deadly. That is why on the star trek enterprise ship, they have a device that sweeps thier path of any particles before they move. You never see it, but it's there. The smallest particle would breach thier hull. you know the ultra durable hulls that survive energy blast when thier ships shields are down. And Thor's hammer likely hits harder than Superman can hit. Enchanted hammer>>invulnerable fist.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Do I need to give you a lesson in science? There are millions of free floating particles in space. Moving at light speed would make each one of those free floating particles, no matter how small,deadly. That is why on the star trek enterprise ship, they have a device that sweeps thier path of any particles before they move. You never see it, but it's there. The smallest particle would breach thier hull. you know the ultra durable hulls that survive energy blast when thier ships shields are down. And Thor's hammer likely hits harder than Superman can hit. Enchanted hammer>>invulnerable fist.

These are comics. Batman can survive the vacuum of space for awhile without burning up, freezing into a block, or even exploding. So real science goes out the window. The writers know how durable Firelord is to physical strikes. They have the final say so and not real science. Them (the writers) deciding to let Spiderman ko him and them never showing elsewhere that this is a contradiction is them really giving their opinion on how physically durable Firelord is.

Fact1: It has never been shown that Firelord's durability and reflexes are not on par to withstand Superman's first strike. Thus saying he can because of small particles in space in invalid.

Fact2: Thor's hammer is not enchanted to hit hard. It's enchanted to control weather, flight, etc. Thor's strength along with the hammer's durability is what causes it to hit hard. And Superman's fists hits much harder than Thor's hammer. I'm sure you know the feats.

Originally posted by h1a8
These are comics. Batman can survive the vacuum of space for awhile without burning up, freezing into a block, or even exploding. So real science goes out the window. The writers know how durable Firelord is to physical strikes. They have the final say so and not real science. Them (the writers) deciding to let Spiderman ko him and them never showing elsewhere that this is a contradiction is them really giving their opinion on how physically durable Firelord is.

Fact1: It has never been shown that Firelord's durability and reflexes are not on par to withstand Superman's first strike. Thus saying he can because of small particles in space in invalid.

Fact2: Thor's hammer is not enchanted to hit hard. It's enchanted to control weather, flight, etc. Thor's strength along with the hammer's durability is what causes it to hit hard. And Superman's fists hits much harder than Thor's hammer. I'm sure you know the feats.

ARE YOU SERIOUS? COMICS talk about the rigors of space travel all of the time. That is why the GL's put thier teammates in bubbles.
ANd yes Thor's hammer hits harder than Superman's fist becuz it's INDESTUCTIBLE, and it's magical. ANd if you don't think it's enchanted to hit harder, You well pay attention to Odin the creator who says that NO ONE can survive a hit from Mjoirnir while he Wields it. The hammer itself is made to hit harder.

Originally posted by h1a8
These are comics. Batman can survive the vacuum of space for awhile without burning up, freezing into a block, or even exploding. So real science goes out the window. The writers know how durable Firelord is to physical strikes. They have the final say so and not real science. Them (the writers) deciding to let Spiderman ko him and them never showing elsewhere that this is a contradiction is them really giving their opinion on how physically durable Firelord is.

Fact1: It has never been shown that Firelord's durability and reflexes are not on par to withstand Superman's first strike. Thus saying he can because of small particles in space in invalid.

Fact2: Thor's hammer is not enchanted to hit hard. It's enchanted to control weather, flight, etc. Thor's strength along with the hammer's durability is what causes it to hit hard. And Superman's fists hits much harder than Thor's hammer. I'm sure you know the feats.

OMG, I can tell you know nothing of comics. You know who beta ray bill is, beta ray bill on panel has one shotted a planet, show me a scan of superman on shotting a planet with his fist. Thor hammer packs more of a whallop.

2. Firelord or terrax alone has the ability to beat superman, might not be for a majority, maybe 4/10 but they could get some wins. If they use there powers right, the probably could get a majority.

3rd, you do know that firelord has the ability to A).go waay faster than the speed of light and B). control all spectrums of sunlight. Dont superman have a weakness to redsunlight. The output of red sunlight that firelord might dish out would be enormous.

Superman loses this 10/10. Damn, even silver surfer could lose this 8or9/10.

This is rape.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
ARE YOU SERIOUS? COMICS talk about the rigors of space travel all of the time. That is why the GL's put thier teammates in bubbles.
ANd yes Thor's hammer hits harder than Superman's fist becuz it's INDESTUCTIBLE, and it's magical. ANd if you don't think it's enchanted to hit harder, You well pay attention to Odin the creator who says that NO ONE can survive a hit from Mjoirnir while he Wields it. The hammer itself is made to hit harder.

Yet many who can survive in space can't survive a bullet nor a hit from Superman. So neither surviving in space nor traveling high speed in space equals surviving a punch from Superman (or a bullet) as far as comics go. Nowhere close.

The hammer is not literally INDESTRUCTIBLE. For it has been damaged and destroyed multiple times. Do you know what hypebole is? Do you know what lies are? You know better than to believe anything someone says in comics (especially when the contrary can be found there). If Odin is right then why has a billion beings survived direct unholding back hits from Thor's hammer. NO ONE my foot! Their is no proof that the hammer is enchanted to make one hit harder than what their natural strength would allow. Thus it can't be accepted.

If writers had Spiderman ko Firelord then what do you think would happen if Thing pounds on him. Superman is astronomically stronger and faster (battlewise). Superman koes Firelord in a nanosecond with only 1 millionth of his strength (which is still over 1000tons which is over Thing). And then he fights Terrax for the very easy win. There's plenty of proof of this. You provided 0 proof that Firelord can not only survive a punch from Superman but react to one as well. You don't even acknowledge that at least Superman could ko him (instead of kill him).

Originally posted by carver9
OMG, I can tell you know nothing of comics. You know who beta ray bill is, beta ray bill on panel has one shotted a planet, show me a scan of superman on shotting a planet with his fist. Thor hammer packs more of a whallop.

2. Firelord or terrax alone has the ability to beat superman, might not be for a majority, maybe 4/10 but they could get some wins. If they use there powers right, the probably could get a majority.

3rd, you do know that firelord has the ability to A).go waay faster than the speed of light and B). control all spectrums of sunlight. Dont superman have a weakness to redsunlight. The output of red sunlight that firelord might dish out would be enormous.

Superman loses this 10/10. Damn, even silver surfer could lose this 8or9/10.

This is rape.

Yes it is rape allright. And Superman is going to be the one doing it.
Neither Firelord nor Terrax can beat Superman any times out of infinity.
This means that it is impossible for them to even win once. Terrax can't even react to peak human speed and gets hurt by beings like Captain America. Firelord has neither shown that he is durable enough to even withstand a Thing's level punch nor be able to react to the mere speed of a bullet. You guys are killing me with this nonsense you are spitting out. This is one of the easiest battles Superman can have without being obvious spite. Otherwise, you are saying Firelord and Terrax can both survive or not be koed by a quadrillion ton punch to the head in less than a nanosecond when they have been shown to be hurt by astronomically smaller forces.

And lastly, If BetaRay actually oneshotted a planet with only a mere hammer strike then it is clearly PIS by definition. Do you know the definition of what PIS?

Terrax<<<Sentry>=The strongest Supes there is. supes beats Terrax but gets raped, annihilated, curbstomped and sodomized by Firelord

Originally posted by Sarutobi700
Terrax<<<Sentry>=The strongest Supes there is. supes beats Terrax but gets raped, annihilated, curbstomped and sodomized by Firelord

Sentry is weaker than the weakest John Bryne Superman IMO.
Ironman busted his nose, Playful and gentle Hulk hurt him with a hug,
he couldn't handle a hellicarrier, etc.
Firelord couldn't even stand up to an outraged 25-40ton Spiderman. Superman is over a trillion times stronger and faster. How would Firelord be able to react to Superman let alone take a hit from him?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And Thor's hammer likely hits harder than Superman can hit. Enchanted hammer>>invulnerable fist.


And yet the invulnerable hand stopped the hammer.

Originally posted by Minge
And yet the invulnerable hand stopped the hammer.

We are talking about punching power. Thor's hammer was coming on a down swing while in Thor's hand. Not the same as When Thor threw the hammer and knocked blood from Superman's mouth. KKthanks, Gnite.

Team easily.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I think that you are using PIS and low showings to make a point. Superman has been hurt by far less people than Either Terrax or Firelord. Hell he's constantly having problems with METALLO. Toyman. To name a few. Superman had problems fighting the boy cheetah once. In the end, These two are both heralds, and even if they are below him in power, they aren't so low that he would be able to steam roll either one in a 1v1. So I dont' think he can beat them 2v1. IMO. Well done. I agree....maybe the world is going to end or something.

Who can't superman not KO with 1 punch?

Most people at this forum have a bad habit of constantly imagining how a battle would go in a comic and not how it is supposed to go if the characters were created in real life. Of course in a comic this would be no cakewalk for Superman (but he would still win in a comic against both).

Assume that a Genie where to create these characters from a wish based off their majority showings in order to develop an accurate power set for the characters. The Genie would gather all comic evidence for both Firelord's and Terrax's durability against physical punches or strikes and it will see that there exists no evidence whatsoever that these beings can even take a punch from Superman without dying. Even though Superman has some low showings, the Genie would only take the majority of consistent showings to develop his power set as well. This means that Superman would be both fast and strong enough to kill both Firelord and Terrax in less than 3 sec.

This thread is spite to me in favor of Superman and people are actually arguing that the team will win when they can't win at least once in an infinite amount of matches. I guess lack of evidence for someone's durability and battle speed (reflexes) don't count anymore. I guess it is valid just to say that someone can do anything without proof. I guess people are emotionally debating things in which they are trying to feel for the truth instead of look for it.

Last thing, PIS is defined as either one doing something below and against what is shown statistically throughout their career or it is defined as one performing a feat that is an outlier-a rare feat that is not established statistically throughout a character's career. Firelord and Terrax has never shown the level of physical durability to survive a punch from Superman and in which they have shown a level in which Superman would kill them in one punch. So them not being able to survive a punch from Superman is not PIS since statistically they don't have the physical durability nor reflexes and speed to do so.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Who can't superman not KO with 1 punch?
not BATMAN!

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
We are talking about punching power. Thor's hammer was coming on a down swing while in Thor's hand. Not the same as When Thor threw the hammer and knocked blood from Superman's mouth. KKthanks, Gnite.

So Thors hammer was stopped by something hard and stronger than it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Most people at this forum have a bad habit of constantly imagining how a battle would go in a comic and not how it is supposed to go if the characters were created in real life. Of course in a comic this would be no cakewalk for Superman (but he would still win in a comic against both).

Assume that a Genie where to create these characters from a wish based off their majority showings in order to develop an accurate power set for the characters. The Genie would gather all comic evidence for both Firelord's and Terrax's durability against physical punches or strikes and it will see that there exists no evidence whatsoever that these beings can even take a punch from Superman without dying. Even though Superman has some low showings, the Genie would only take the majority of consistent showings to develop his power set as well. This means that Superman would be both fast and strong enough to kill both Firelord and Terrax in less than 3 sec.

This thread is spite to me in favor of Superman and people are actually arguing that the team will win when they can't win at least once in an infinite amount of matches. I guess lack of evidence for someone's durability and battle speed (reflexes) don't count anymore. I guess it is valid just to say that someone can do anything without proof. I guess people are emotionally debating things in which they are trying to feel for the truth instead of look for it.

Last thing, PIS is defined as either one doing something below and against what is shown statistically throughout their career or it is defined as one performing a feat that is an outlier-a rare feat that is not established statistically throughout a character's career. Firelord and Terrax has never shown the level of physical durability to survive a punch from Superman and in which they have shown a level in which Superman would kill them in one punch. So them not being able to survive a punch from Superman is not PIS since statistically they don't have the physical durability nor reflexes and speed to do so.

Its not our fault that your genie has no abstract thought and cannot realize that the heralds can stand planet explosions and that Superman has not proven such hit power. That the heralds by definition are mean to travel in space way faster than light, proving to be at least at fast as Supes in the speed department. What I mean is: Your genie is a biased sheep that suppose that Supes speed and durability is uber and that the opponents can't compare because he does not like it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Sentry is weaker than the weakest John Bryne Superman IMO.
Ironman busted his nose, Playful and gentle Hulk hurt him with a hug,
he couldn't handle a hellicarrier, etc.
Firelord couldn't even stand up to an outraged 25-40ton Spiderman. Superman is over a trillion times stronger and faster. How would Firelord be able to react to Superman let alone take a hit from him?

Supes loses to Gorilla Grod, TOY MAN and LEX LUTHOR!!

The team win.

Firelord's one low showing against Spiderman does not constitute for Supes being able to one shot him. Supes has had far worse low showings. Also, as Firelord can control spectrums of sunlight- he could shower Supes with red sun energy and Supes would become very weak and Terrax would dice him.

Originally posted by Bentley
Its not our fault that your genie has no abstract thought and cannot realize that the heralds can stand planet explosions and that Superman has not proven such hit power. That the heralds by definition are mean to travel in space way faster than light, proving to be at least at fast as Supes in the speed department. What I mean is: Your genie is a biased sheep that suppose that Supes speed and durability is uber and that the opponents can't compare because he does not like it.

Wait, are you kidding me? Superman CAN'T one shot a planet? How many Superman comics have you read? Superman is easily among the strongest top tiers in comics, probably in the top 5 of the high heralds on our tier list in terms of physical strength. And in terms of combat speed, neither of these 2 has a thing on Superman. Both would lose 10/10 to him alone, and even together, I don't see much hope for them. I mean, if a weakling like Sentry could ***** Terrax, I don't see Supes having any trouble. Firelord is somewhat more impressive, but again, Superman hits harder than anyone FL has faced, with the exception of Thor, and Thanos if he fought him. And IMO, Superman's strength feats eclipse those of Thanos.

The team might take a few, like 1 or 2 normally. But they will not take shit from a bloodlusted supes. Superman outclasses them. And btw, someone said Surfer would lose to these 2?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Wait, are you kidding me? Superman CAN'T one shot a planet? How many Superman comics have you read? Superman is easily among the strongest top tiers in comics, probably in the top 5 of the high heralds on our tier list in terms of physical strength. And in terms of combat speed, neither of these 2 has a thing on Superman. Both would lose 10/10 to him alone, and even together, I don't see much hope for them. I mean, if a weakling like Sentry could ***** Terrax, I don't see Supes having any trouble. Firelord is somewhat more impressive, but again, Superman hits harder than anyone FL has faced, with the exception of Thor, and Thanos if he fought him. And IMO, Superman's strength feats eclipse those of Thanos.

The team might take a few, like 1 or 2 normally. But they will not take shit from a bloodlusted supes. Superman outclasses them. And btw, someone said Surfer would lose to these 2?

Surfer would dlose if he was fighting them at the same time. Big G's heralds are more or less equall Terrax being one of the weakest and Firelord one of the strongest. Everything you said about Stuporman is wrong and dare lies. upes could never one shot a planet if he sun bathed for eternity

Originally posted by Sarutobi700
Surfer would dlose if he was fighting them at the same time. Big G's heralds are more or less equall Terrax being one of the weakest and Firelord one of the strongest. Everything you said about Stuporman is wrong and dare lies. upes could never one shot a planet if he sun bathed for eternity

If you know nothing of Superman then why argue against him?
A mere moment in the Sun gives Superman power that is greater than thousands of galaxies (Remember each galaxy has billions of stars). This is a fact. His power is both Psionic and Hypermetabolization. Solar energy just provides him with the potential to draw into these energies.

Being a herald doesn't constitute one to be able to take a Superman punch. If that was the case then Firelord would have once shown this, but he hasn't. So your logic of Superman getting beaten by Toyman and such fails because it was shown that Superman indeed have the power to beat Toyman and such. But it was never shown that Firelord has the physical durability or reflexes and battle speed in which to stop Superman from hitting and killing him. Thus, it isn't PIS when someone of lower strength than Superman koes Firelord. Because this is his only established physical durability on panel.

And traveling speed don't equal battle speed or reflex ability. Again Superman koes (or kills) Firelord in a nanosecond and then commences to engage Terrax for a very easy win.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
The team win.

Firelord's one low showing against Spiderman does not constitute for Supes being able to one shot him. Supes has had far worse low showings. Also, as Firelord can control spectrums of sunlight- he could shower Supes with red sun energy and Supes would become very weak and Terrax would dice him.

A low showing is such a showing that there exists at least another showing greater than it. Firelord has no higher showings in the physical durability department (not energy durability) . Thus it isn't a low showing at all. And Firelord is astronomically slower than Superman in battle speed and reflexes. He won't get even a chance to think when Superman blitzes him instantly (So the red sun energy strategy fails).

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I mean, if a weakling like Sentry could ***** Terrax, I don't see Supes having any trouble.
It's funny how you take that as proof that Terrax is weak rather then proof that Sentry is powerful.

Originally posted by King Kandy
It's funny how you take that as proof that Terrax is weak rather then proof that Sentry is powerful. What else do you expect from tricksterpriest.

sup quan

team ftw

Team

I dont understand why this is still going on. Supes looses this 10/10. Hell, i go as far as saying that if superman fought 2 equus that is in no way comparable to firelord or terrax, that he would lose. This is a curb stomp and shouldnt have even been made. You have two beings that alone is more powerful than superman (but superman could still win 1on1 against them because they use there powers in bruteful ways) and youre teaming them up.

Like I said 1on1 if they use there herald powers the right way, they could get a majority, if they fight there stupid ways, they could get some wins but superman would get the majority (I still think that firelord would get a majority over superman even if he fights like he does in comics).

h1a8, do you even know the powers that both of these heralds have. I dont think that you know jack about them. Lets put it like this, firelord has enough power at his desposal that he could stalemate silver surfer. Terrax has enough power at his desposal that he could give surfer a fight of his life.

Silver surfer has enough power at his disposal that he could one shot superman, or strip superman of his powers. Do you get the point.

Spite.

Originally posted by carver9
I dont understand why this is still going on. Supes looses this 10/10. Hell, i go as far as saying that if superman fought 2 equus that is in no way comparable to firelord or terrax, that he would lose. This is a curb stomp and shouldnt have even been made. You have two beings that alone is more powerful than superman (but superman could still win 1on1 against them because they use there powers in bruteful ways) and youre teaming them up.

Like I said 1on1 if they use there herald powers the right way, they could get a majority, if they fight there stupid ways, they could get some wins but superman would get the majority (I still think that firelord would get a majority over superman even if he fights like he does in comics).

h1a8, do you even know the powers that both of these heralds have. I dont think that you know jack about them. Lets put it like this, firelord has enough power at his desposal that he could stalemate silver surfer. Terrax has enough power at his desposal that he could give surfer a fight of his life.

Silver surfer has enough power at his disposal that he could one shot superman, or strip superman of his powers. Do you get the point.

Spite.

Dude, stop using Equus as an example of Supes losing. He bitched Equus. and the only reason Equus has able to hurt was because he has angel bone claws.

Originally posted by h1a8
Not true. PIS only applies when a character's entire history contradicts that moment(s).

So when I see you respond in a Hulk thread,this is the way you will be thinking?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Dude, stop using Equus as an example of Supes losing. He bitched Equus. and the only reason Equus has able to hurt was because he has angel bone claws. I

Im not using equus as a win but I know that 2 equus would kill superman. One equus gave him problems, 2 would most definitely kill him.

Superman would win everytime 1on1 with equus.

By the way, superman loses this fight 10/10 and trickster youre a fanboy and how many times do i have to tell you that. Your votes for superman means jack to me because I have never seen you vote against him.

Good to see you though. Youre still one of the coolest (and sometimes most irritating) guy on the forum besides myself.

Originally posted by carver9
I dont understand why this is still going on. Supes looses this 10/10. Hell, i go as far as saying that if superman fought 2 equus that is in no way comparable to firelord or terrax, that he would lose. This is a curb stomp and shouldnt have even been made. You have two beings that alone is more powerful than superman (but superman could still win 1on1 against them because they use there powers in bruteful ways) and youre teaming them up.

Like I said 1on1 if they use there herald powers the right way, they could get a majority, if they fight there stupid ways, they could get some wins but superman would get the majority (I still think that firelord would get a majority over superman even if he fights like he does in comics).

h1a8, do you even know the powers that both of these heralds have. I dont think that you know jack about them. Lets put it like this, firelord has enough power at his desposal that he could stalemate silver surfer. Terrax has enough power at his desposal that he could give surfer a fight of his life.

Silver surfer has enough power at his disposal that he could one shot superman, or strip superman of his powers. Do you get the point.

Spite.

You are right! This is spite. But in favor of Superman. This thread shouldn't even been created. There is 0 chance that both Firelord and Terrax can win once in a billion matches against Superman.

Many here (like you) are using a common form of faulty reasoning. You all are assuming that who ever is the most powerful (in terms of versatility of offense) then they automatically win against the less powerful. Give another human the power to destroy a universe with just a thought and let a bullet be fired at their brain. The bullet wins everytime. That doesn't mean that the bullet>>>>the human in sheer power. You get my point? Speed is the king of all things.

The reason why Firelord and maybe Terrax would give SS and Thor a good fight is because both SS's and Thor's battle speed and reflexes are on par with both Firelord's and Terrax's. Superman is totally different. For he is fast enough to hit Firelord and Terrax in battle before they can operate a thought. Second, Firelord (and maybe Terrax) has never proven to have the physical durability to withstand even a 100ton punch.

At the start of the battle Superman will punch Firelord with a strike that more than a billion times more than Spiderman's punch and with the speed in which Firelord can't react to. Afterwards (nanoseconds later), Superman would do the same to Terrax. This thread is Super Spite.

If you disagree then prove that either Firelord or Terrax can react and move to Superman's battle speed. Then prove that they can take a Superman powered punch without being koed or killed. If you do this then team wins. Otherwise it is spite in Superman's favor.

Originally posted by strengthkills
So when I see you respond in a Hulk thread,this is the way you will be thinking?

In these forums I look at things in order of importance-speed first, power set second, and strength and durability last. So in mostly all Hulk threads I would argue mostly for or against speed then second most of power set and lastly for strength and durability. I rarely pull the PIS arguments out since there aren't many PIS feats.

Originally posted by h1a8
This thread is Super Spite.



Definite cool points for that one.

This is why I think firelord could solo superman, even surfer who has flown through the sun and also drain power from the sun couldnt take the heat that firelord produce.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=8216194

Destroying an asteroid the size of a small planet with ease.
http://img42.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc199&image=79605_meteorr.jpg

taking 100+ ton strength.
http://img46.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc54&image=80124_versust1.jpg
http://img45.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc136&image=80128_versust2.jpg

Creating prisons.
http://img13.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc132&image=80109_thorfin6.jpg

Defeated silver surfer.
http://img142.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc70&image=80287_flvsss8.jpg

took a beating from drax and wasnt even fighting back.
http://img136.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc37&image=79470_draxx3.jpg
http://img107.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc130&image=79579_draxx4.jpg

Destroying a planet.
http://i83.imagethrust.com/images/4cMC/view-image/venomlicencetokill-03063-fq.html

Fighting a odin level being.
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Firelord/?action=view&current=firelordthorvstarakismangog.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Firelord/?action=view&current=tarakisvsfirelord.jpg

Flying from a planet across the universe to asgard in a couple of minutes.
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Firelord/?action=view&current=firelordflight.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Firelord/?action=view&current=firelordspeed.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Firelord/?action=view&current=firelordspeed1.jpg

I don't think Firelord can solo Superman. Too much speed and then strength and then durability. The team could take this but it depends.

If Terrax runs interference for Firelord then the team could win via Firelords attacks. But Supes speed, agility and strength is on another level to either one of these guys, so I could see him doing a number of things to Terrax to take him out of the equation quickly and then use his speed to engage Firelord - and in a physical fight between these two Supes wins 10/10.

I say this is as a 55/45 for Superman. Terrax is the weak link and the team only wins if he can distract Superman long enough for Fire Lord to attack Supes with a definitive attack. Superman has powers that could distruct the team as well, long enough for him to take out Terrax and then handle Firelord in close quaters.

The team wins this 10/10. Just to much raw power for superman.

Originally posted by carver9
This is why I think firelord could solo superman, even surfer who has flown through the sun and also drain power from the sun couldnt take the heat that firelord produce.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=8216194

Destroying an asteroid the size of a small planet with ease.
http://img42.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc199&image=79605_meteorr.jpg

taking 100+ ton strength.
http://img46.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc54&image=80124_versust1.jpg
http://img45.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc136&image=80128_versust2.jpg

Creating prisons.
http://img13.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc132&image=80109_thorfin6.jpg

Defeated silver surfer.
http://img142.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc70&image=80287_flvsss8.jpg

took a beating from drax and wasnt even fighting back.
http://img136.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc37&image=79470_draxx3.jpg
http://img107.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc130&image=79579_draxx4.jpg

Destroying a planet.
http://i83.imagethrust.com/images/4cMC/view-image/venomlicencetokill-03063-fq.html

Fighting a odin level being.
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Firelord/?action=view&current=firelordthorvstarakismangog.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Firelord/?action=view&current=tarakisvsfirelord.jpg

Flying from a planet across the universe to asgard in a couple of minutes.
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Firelord/?action=view&current=firelordflight.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Firelord/?action=view&current=firelordspeed.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Firelord/?action=view&current=firelordspeed1.jpg

Only the first and last scans work.
Also you are not reading my posts in depth for you are missing the essential logic that I was preaching. The logic is that offensive power has no bearing on speed. Firelord can destroy the omniverse with a thought for all we care, but if someone who is faster than him pops him for a ko before he can react then all his precious power is gone down the drain. Also you are this using the faulty logic of traveling speed is equal or comparable to battle speed and reflexes. Firelord at his best don't have anywhere near the battlespeed nor reflexes to stop Superman from koing him in nanoseconds.

Originally posted by carver9
The team wins this 10/10. Just to much raw power for superman.

More faulty reasoning. It seems you are deaf to wisdom.
All the power in the world can't make one win against an unreactible speed. Superman wins all the time because of this.

Originally posted by carver9
This is why I think firelord could solo superman, even surfer who has flown through the sun and also drain power from the sun couldnt take the heat that firelord produce.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=8216194

Destroying an asteroid the size of a small planet with ease.
http://img42.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc199&image=79605_meteorr.jpg

taking 100+ ton strength.
http://img46.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc54&image=80124_versust1.jpg
http://img45.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc136&image=80128_versust2.jpg

Creating prisons.
http://img13.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc132&image=80109_thorfin6.jpg

Defeated silver surfer.
http://img142.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc70&image=80287_flvsss8.jpg

took a beating from drax and wasnt even fighting back.
http://img136.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc37&image=79470_draxx3.jpg
http://img107.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc130&image=79579_draxx4.jpg

Destroying a planet.
http://i83.imagethrust.com/images/4cMC/view-image/venomlicencetokill-03063-fq.html

Fighting a odin level being.
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Firelord/?action=view&current=firelordthorvstarakismangog.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Firelord/?action=view&current=tarakisvsfirelord.jpg

Flying from a planet across the universe to asgard in a couple of minutes.
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Firelord/?action=view&current=firelordflight.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Firelord/?action=view&current=firelordspeed.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Firelord/?action=view&current=firelordspeed1.jpg

Dude half those links are to pics of chics.

Originally posted by h1a8
More faulty reasoning. It seems you are deaf to wisdom.
All the power in the world can't make one win against an unreactible speed. Superman wins all the time because of this. Its jus funny to me how you think Superman beats both of these heralds at the same time becuz you think they cant react to his speed.

Originally posted by carver9
This is why I think firelord could solo superman, even surfer who has flown through the sun and also drain power from the sun couldnt take the heat that firelord produce.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=8216194

Destroying an asteroid the size of a small planet with ease.
http://img42.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc199&image=79605_meteorr.jpg

taking 100+ ton strength.
http://img46.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc54&image=80124_versust1.jpg
http://img45.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc136&image=80128_versust2.jpg

Creating prisons.
http://img13.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc132&image=80109_thorfin6.jpg

Defeated silver surfer.
http://img142.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc70&image=80287_flvsss8.jpg

took a beating from drax and wasnt even fighting back.
http://img136.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc37&image=79470_draxx3.jpg
http://img107.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc130&image=79579_draxx4.jpg

Destroying a planet.
http://i83.imagethrust.com/images/4cMC/view-image/venomlicencetokill-03063-fq.html

Fighting a odin level being.
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Firelord/?action=view&current=firelordthorvstarakismangog.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Firelord/?action=view&current=tarakisvsfirelord.jpg

Flying from a planet across the universe to asgard in a couple of minutes.
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Firelord/?action=view&current=firelordflight.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Firelord/?action=view&current=firelordspeed.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Firelord/?action=view&current=firelordspeed1.jpg
I only see Alicia Silverstone and one of the chicks from Sin City......haermm

bollocks, the links ARE working .

Originally posted by h1a8
A low showing is such a showing that there exists at least another showing greater than it. Firelord has no higher showings in the physical durability department (not energy durability) . Thus it isn't a low showing at all. And Firelord is astronomically slower than Superman in battle speed and reflexes. He won't get even a chance to think when Superman blitzes him instantly (So the red sun energy strategy fails).


Superman has been KOed by an exploding gas station before. Firelord has stalemated Thor more than once and slugged it out with Hercules. The idea of Superman being multiple times more powerful than a Herald is ridiculous.


If you're going to bring in the idea of Superman speedblitzing him instantly, this discussion is kind of pointless. There's a difference between Superman and you with Superman's powers.

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Superman has been KOed by an exploding gas station before. Firelord has stalemated Thor more than once and slugged it out with Hercules. The idea of Superman being multiple times more powerful than a Herald is ridiculous.


If you're going to bring in the idea of Superman speedblitzing him instantly, this discussion is kind of pointless. There's a difference between Superman and you with Superman's powers.

FYI, superman kO'd by a gas station was Two upgrades ago.

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Superman has been KOed by an exploding gas station before. Firelord has stalemated Thor more than once and slugged it out with Hercules. The idea of Superman being multiple times more powerful than a Herald is ridiculous.


If you're going to bring in the idea of Superman speedblitzing him instantly, this discussion is kind of pointless. There's a difference between Superman and you with Superman's powers. H1 is obsessed with Supermans speed.

superman loses 10/10

versus terrax alone, superman7/10
versus firelord alone, someone that produces ALL form of sunlight, firelord 6.5/10, if firelord uses his powers right.

Originally posted by carver9
superman loses 10/10

versus terrax alone, superman7/10
versus firelord alone, someone that produces ALL form of sunlight, firelord 6.5/10, if firelord uses his powers right.

NO. superman against Either alone would win the majority.

Originally posted by carver9
superman loses 10/10

versus terrax alone, superman7/10
versus firelord alone, someone that produces ALL form of sunlight, firelord 6.5/10, if firelord uses his powers right. lol buttsecks!

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
FYI, superman kO'd by a gas station was Two upgrades ago.



He did have the death powerup, granted.

However, Superman's durability wasn't upgraded by Mongul training. That's really a common misconception. The only combat-related benefit Superman got from the Mongul training was using several powers at the same time effectively. There was never any point in the story where he "broke mental blocks" allowing his strength and durability to shoot way up. When he was struggling against the Imperiex Probe, Mongul's advice was for him to use multiple powers at once, not to stop limiting his strength and durability.

I think people really tend to misinterpret what the Mongul training did. Superman managed to push his vision and lung capacity higher, but there are no references to other powers getting higher. There are numerous references to his skill at using several powrs at the same time improving, though.


Anyway, Superman has grunted from the effort of holding up a helicopter since the Mongul training, so I could just use that. Or there's the fact that recently his speedblitz appeared to be no more powerful than a kick from Batman.

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
He did have the death powerup, granted.

However, Superman's durability wasn't upgraded by Mongul training. That's really a common misconception. The only combat-related benefit Superman got from the Mongul training was using several powers at the same time effectively. There was never any point in the story where he "broke mental blocks" allowing his strength and durability to shoot way up. When he was struggling against the Imperiex Probe, Mongul's advice was for him to use multiple powers at once, not to stop limiting his strength and durability.

I think people really tend to misinterpret what the Mongul training did. Superman managed to push his vision and lung capacity higher, but there are no references to other powers getting higher. There are numerous references to his skill at using several powrs at the same time improving, though.


Anyway, Superman has grunted from the effort of holding up a helicopter since the Mongul training, so I could just use that. Or there's the fact that recently his speedblitz appeared to be no more powerful than a kick from Batman.

That was truly sad for Superman, and For DS. But, batman was amped somehow. He's like all shadowing and intangible or something. So who knows. That was shitty writing at it's best. Superman had another power up. There was a story where he was absorbing more and more sunlight. can't remember the name of it. he had gotten too powerful. Anyways, the jist of it was that he CONSTANTLY gets more powerful as he metabolizes sun light, to increase his capacity.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
NO. superman against Either alone would win the majority.

Dont agree.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
That was truly sad for Superman, and For DS. But, batman was amped somehow. He's like all shadowing and intangible or something. So who knows. That was shitty writing at it's best. Superman had another power up. There was a story where he was absorbing more and more sunlight. can't remember the name of it. he had gotten too powerful. Anyways, the jist of it was that he CONSTANTLY gets more powerful as he metabolizes sun light, to increase his capacity.

can you show me this story and in this story I want to read where it says "Superman has gotten a powerup." or is it just something else you have made up for superman since he did state twice that he dont come close to moving the speed of light.

Originally posted by carver9
can you show me this story and in this story I want to read where it says "Superman has gotten a powerup." or is it just something else you have made up for superman since he did state twice that he dont come close to moving the speed of light.

what the hell are you talking about? Superman was moving at light speed in the last Superman Batman arc with the new gods. And Superman has gotten at least two powerups since the Gas station exploding incident.

Originally posted by carver9
can you show me this story and in this story I want to read where it says "Superman has gotten a powerup." or is it just something else you have made up for superman since he did state twice that he dont come close to moving the speed of light.

You know, the mere fact that you think Superman CAN'T move at lightspeed, pretty much destroys any kind of cred you have.

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
The idea of Superman being multiple times more powerful than a Herald is ridiculous. As far as physical strength goes Superman is many multiples more powerful than any herald (and faster in battle too).




At least you did hit the nail on the head. Yes there is a big difference between Superman and me with Superman's powers. In these threads I assume that I am the one with the powers and abilities that's fighting.

So this is where I concede:
If Superman uses his abilities (speed) like he should (he does at least a good portion of the time though) then he wins this. If he doesn't then yes the team can win the majority (provided they don't fight dumb either).

Originally posted by quanchi112
H1 is obsessed with Supermans speed.

Yes I am.
I'm beginning to like you Quanchi. You are not as irritating as before.

Originally posted by h1a8
Yes I am.
I'm beginning to like you Quanchi. You are not as irritating as before. Im still the same.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Im still the same.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Nver Im here to stay.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Nver Im here to stay.

Every court needs a jestor.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Every court needs a jestor. Thats why you are here.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thats why you are here.

I'm the Queen Sweety. Remember your place.

Originally posted by h1a8
As far as physical strength goes Superman is many multiples more powerful than any herald (and faster in battle too).




No he is not. Superman is slightly stronger than Thor, who Firelord has proven a match for physically more than once. Terrax is on the same level of strength. This is like pitting Superman against Orion and J'onn at the same time.

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
No he is not. Superman is slightly stronger than Thor, who Firelord has proven a match for physically more than once. Terrax is on the same level of strength. This is like pitting Superman against Orion and J'onn at the same time.

Thor is much stronger than Firelord. You know that in their tussles the flames was sapping Thor's strength as said in his narrative. Even though that was the case Thor still overpowered Firelord in their tussles. So Thor overpowered Firelord in a weakened state. Thus Thor is much stronger than Firelord.

And Superman is much stronger than Thor (featwise).
Get that "Superman is slightly stronger than Thor" crap outta here.

Superman at his lowest ever would have never jobbed to Spiderman. This tells you that Firelord and Superman is on entirely different planes of physical power. And don't give me that gas station routine again. That gas station exploded with the force of a megaton bomb. Just look at the picture (KAA-BOOOOOM!). It knocked the hell out of Maxima, Doomsday, and Superman (who are all uber durable) all at the same time. This force still belittles any thing that Spiderman can do. Plus Superman wasn't koed for he never lost conscienceness. He got up without a scratch. This low showing for Superman dwarfs the showing Firelord had with Spiderman.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I'm the Queen Sweety. Remember your place. Oh brother.

Thor is much stronger than Firelord. You know that in their tussles the flames was sapping Thor's strength as said in his narrative. Even though that was the case Thor still overpowered Firelord in their tussles. So Thor overpowered Firelord in a weakened state. Thus Thor is much stronger than Firelord.



LOL, are you serious???


1. Firelord only sapped some of Thor's strength with heat in one of their fights. They were stalemating BEFORE that occured. WHILE Thor was weakening due to the flames, it was not even. Firelord was overpowering Thor and choking him to death. It took all of Thor's strength to get Firelord off of him and run away.

2. The only time Thor gained any physical advantage against Firelord was when he was mind-controlled in their third fight (this was stated as the reason). They've matched several times and in their final fight, Thor even stated he could not beat Firelord.


How anyone could come to the conclusion that Thor is noticably stronger than Firelord from their fights is beyond me.





And Superman is much stronger than Thor (featwise).
Get that "Superman is slightly stronger than Thor" crap outta here.



Hooookay. Thor and Superman's feats are arguable, but if you wanna place this game, Superman is much weaker than Terrax and Beta Ray Bill feat-wise as they've both destroyed planets with physical force, while Superman's needed help moving the moon.




Superman at his lowest ever would have never jobbed to Spiderman. This tells you that Firelord and Superman is on entirely different planes of physical power. And don't give me that gas station routine again. That gas station exploded with the force of a megaton bomb. Just look at the picture (KAA-BOOOOOM!).


LOL!!!!!!!! It exploded with the force of a megaton bomb because of a sound effect???


FYI, Firelord took a similarly gigantic gas station explosion RIGHT before Spider-Man blitzed him (in the same comic, literally right before) and was unharmed.





It knocked the hell out of Maxima, Doomsday, and Superman (who are all uber durable) all at the same time.


What? It didn't do anything to Doomsday. It owned Superman and Maxima though.


If you really want to keep up with this petty crap though, I could mention how Wonder Woman, who's bled from Deathstroke's punches (the pain from which was likened to a knife cutting through her skull), has taken Superman's all out punches and continued fighting.




This force still belittles any thing that Spiderman can do. Plus Superman wasn't koed for he never lost conscienceness.


... Hooookay. He was lying flat on the ground with his eyes closed not moving as Doomsday walked away. Exactly what do you need to see to confirm that he lost consciousness? This KO is just as clear as Spider-Man's KO of Firelord.





He got up without a scratch. This low showing for Superman dwarfs the showing Firelord had with Spiderman.


Not really, since Firelord took a similar explosion WITHOUT being KTFO like Superman was right before Spider-Man speedblitzed him.

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
LOL, are you serious???


1. Firelord only sapped some of Thor's strength with heat in one of their fights. They were stalemating BEFORE that occured. WHILE Thor was weakening due to the flames, it was not even. Firelord was overpowering Thor and choking him to death. It took all of Thor's strength to get Firelord off of him and run away.

2. The only time Thor gained any physical advantage against Firelord was when he was mind-controlled in their third fight (this was stated as the reason). They've matched several times and in their final fight, Thor even stated he could not beat Firelord.


How anyone could come to the conclusion that Thor is noticably stronger than Firelord from their fights is beyond me.








Hooookay. Thor and Superman's feats are arguable, but if you wanna place this game, Superman is much weaker than Terrax and Beta Ray Bill feat-wise as they've both destroyed planets with physical force, while Superman's needed help moving the moon.






LOL!!!!!!!! It exploded with the force of a megaton bomb because of a sound effect???


FYI, Firelord took a similarly gigantic gas station explosion RIGHT before Spider-Man blitzed him (in the same comic, literally right before) and was unharmed.







What? It didn't do anything to Doomsday. It owned Superman and Maxima though.


If you really want to keep up with this petty crap though, I could mention how Wonder Woman, who's bled from Deathstroke's punches (the pain from which was likened to a knife cutting through her skull), has taken Superman's all out punches and continued fighting.






... Hooookay. He was lying flat on the ground with his eyes closed not moving as Doomsday walked away. Exactly what do you need to see to confirm that he lost consciousness? This KO is just as clear as Spider-Man's KO of Firelord.







Not really, since Firelord took a similar explosion WITHOUT being KTFO like Superman was right before Spider-Man speedblitzed him.

Correction, Niether Terrax, nor beta ray, destroyed any such planets with Thier own physical force and durability.

If you want to be really picky:


1. Beta Ray Bill and Stardust destroyed planets by physically crashing into them

2. Terrax chopped a planet in half by swinging his axe into it



Both are showings of their strength/durability. It really doesn't matter though, because writers don't analyze feats that closely. Different writers have top tiers doing what seems strong to them. Both DC and Marvel top tiers are extremely inconsistent in terms of feats, but the RANGE of inconsistency (if you compare the highest highs and the lowest lows) is very similar. It's best to pay attention to hiearchy.

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
If you want to be really picky:


1. Beta Ray Bill and Stardust destroyed planets by physically crashing into them

2. Terrax chopped a planet in half by swinging his axe into it



Both are showings of their strength/durability. It really doesn't matter though, because writers don't analyze feats that closely. Different writers have top tiers doing what seems strong to them. Both DC and Marvel top tiers are extremely inconsistent in terms of feats, but the RANGE of inconsistency (if you compare the highest highs and the lowest lows) is very similar. It's best to pay attention to hiearchy. Even hiearchy gets screwed. Example, DS beats Orion like a red headed step child, and yet Orion has bested Superman on occasion and stalemated him, while superman has a more impressive victory over DS. Silver Surfer beats tenebrious and Aegis but looks a fool to thanos.

Well current Surfer is powered up and likely on Thanos' level of power, but it's true that hiearchy is all over the place. However, the difference is that in terms of hiearchy the CRAZIEST things you normally see are characters looking about twice as powerful or half as powerful as their average. When it comes to space feats, you'll have a charcter planet-busting one minute and struggling with a building the next. With hiearchy you typically deal with deviations somewhere around twofold. With environmental feats, if you look at it realistically the characters are millions of times more powerful or less powerful from issue to issue.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Correction, Niether Terrax, nor beta ray, destroyed any such planets with Thier own physical force and durability. Terrax destroyed a planet with ease before.

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Well current Surfer is powered up and likely on Thanos' level of power, but it's true that hiearchy is all over the place. However, the difference is that in terms of hiearchy the CRAZIEST things you normally see are characters looking about twice as powerful or half as powerful as their average. When it comes to space feats, you'll have a charcter planet-busting one minute and struggling with a building the next. With hiearchy you typically deal with deviations somewhere around twofold. With environmental feats, if you look at it realistically the characters are millions of times more powerful or less powerful from issue to issue. Hes not on Thanos level. No friggin way. Just becuz he freed Galactus I mean come on now.

I'm going by how badly he owned Ravenous, who was a match for him previously. It looks like Surfer is well above top tier now. He may not be on the exact same level as Thanos is currently, but he's probably at least on par with pre-ressurection Thanos.

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
I'm going by how badly he owned Ravenous, who was a match for him previously. It looks like Surfer is well above top tier now. He may not be on the exact same level as Thanos is currently, but he's probably at least on par with pre-ressurection Thanos.

The Top tier is the same. Thor isn't holding back, Superman has gotten upgrades, orion is still his match. everyone is upgrading, but not really becuz thier positions are still held.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The Top tier is the same. Thor isn't holding back, Superman has gotten upgrades, orion is still his match. everyone is upgrading, but not really becuz thier positions are still held. Another problem is that most writers are pusses and they just have top tiers stalemate for the most part with no one looking superior.

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
LOL, are you serious???


1. Firelord only sapped some of Thor's strength with heat in one of their fights. They were stalemating BEFORE that occured. WHILE Thor was weakening due to the flames, it was not even. Firelord was overpowering Thor and choking him to death. It took all of Thor's strength to get Firelord off of him and run away.

Stalemating has nothing to do with physical strength. Odin and Zues can be stalemating each other through blasts. Yet it tells nothing of who is actually physically stronger. Second, Firelord wasn't overpowering Thor ever. Thor in his weakened state overcame Firelord's strength. So a weakened Thor is much stronger than Firelord.


Again, winning or stalemating a battle has necessarily nothing to do with whose physically stronger.


I think you are purposely trying to twist the truth because the fight is common sense.
The fight clearly shows that Thor is much stronger. In every tussle (when Thor and Firelord were wrestling) Thor overpowered Firelord. Even in Thor's weaken state Thor overpower Firelord. If Firelord was stronger than Thor then why did a weakened Thor overpower him everytime (especially when Firelord was trying to choke Thor)? Also, these fights against Thor are very impressive for Firelord, yet Thor is nowhere near Superman in the speed department. Spiderman was shown to be faster than Firelord combat wise.
There is no way in hell that Firelord should even be able to react to a Superman blitz.








What does Terrax have to do with this? We are debating Firelord's physicality. Second, have you ever heard of PIS?

Superman is stronger than a thousand galaxies when sundipped only for a small moment. This is how he amps. Terrax can amp too you know. But anyway please show me where Terrax destroyed a planet with physical force. You know that Beta Ray Bill's feat is either PIS or he had a plot device (help) right?






"Megaton bomb" is an exaggeration. The sound effect, the picture, and the effect (Maxima, Doomsday, and Superman all knocked in the air like crazy) all show that the explosion was very very powerful.


Superman wasn't harmed either. There was no scratches on him as well. What you are saying doesn't combat the fact that Superman would never job to Spiderman. This just shows that Superman and Firelord are leagues apart in the physical department.






It knocked DD the hell in the air. Owning would require some blood or at least a tiny scratch, yet none were found on Superman.



PIS is invalid here.





He was moving the entire time on the ground. Please look again! The first scan shows him lifting his right arm in the air while lying on the ground. The explosion itself was very powerful as shown from the scan. Yet it is still clear PIS that what happened there. Thus it is invalid.







It's possible that Firelord wasn't even in the explosion. The scan shows him blasting the station while being far in the air. If Firelord was in the explosion (in which the scan contradicts) then all we can say is that fire is Firelord's thing (like the Sun is Superman's thing).

With all this nonsense you haven't shown or proven that Firelord won't be koed with one of Superman's punches. Answer this though:

About how many punches do you think it would take Superman to ko Firelord if Firelord let Superman hit him? Give me a maximum amount.

Bottom-line, they're still heralds. They've got enough exotic powers from energy manipulation, energy absorption, matter manipulation, cosmic senses, etc. to make Superman dizzy. And each of their battle spirits is fierce.

Nonetheless, I say that this match is pretty even, but for different reasons that most people postulate. The two combined have the ability to pool their powers and could dominate. But they are both arrogant beings and I am hard-pressed to find any instance where either of them has actually shown great tactical cunning or leadership/teamwork abilities.

They'd probably blast each other as often as they'd blast Superman. And Superman would be able to take advantage of that

Split 5/10.

IMO an extremely pissed off "I mean business Kal-El" can pull this off.

Originally posted by h1a8
Stalemating has nothing to do with physical strength. Odin and Zues can be stalemating each other through blasts. Yet it tells nothing of who is actually physically stronger. Second, Firelord wasn't overpowering Thor ever. Thor in his weakened state overcame Firelord's strength. So a weakened Thor is much stronger than Firelord.


Again, winning or stalemating a battle has necessarily nothing to do with whose physically stronger.


I think you are purposely trying to twist the truth because the fight is common sense.
The fight clearly shows that Thor is much stronger. In every tussle (when Thor and Firelord were wrestling) Thor overpowered Firelord. Even in Thor's weaken state Thor overpower Firelord. If Firelord was stronger than Thor then why did a weakened Thor overpower him everytime (especially when Firelord was trying to choke Thor)? Also, these fights against Thor are very impressive for Firelord, yet Thor is nowhere near Superman in the speed department. Spiderman was shown to be faster than Firelord combat wise.
There is no way in hell that Firelord should even be able to react to a Superman blitz.









So if he is as strong as 1,000 galaxies, then he is stronger than celestials, glactus etc.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
IMO an extremely pissed off "I mean business Kal-El" can pull this off. Nah. Firelord is more than an headache and with Terrax here they just are to damn much.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Nah. Firelord is more than an headache and with Terrax here they just are to damn much.

Key words "Extremely pissed off I mean Business."

Not holding back puss Supes.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Key words "Extremely pissed off I mean Business."

Not holding back puss Supes. I know what you said and hed still lose.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I know what you said and hed still lose.

Disagreed.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Disagreed. Do you think Superman can beat anyone when hes pissed off.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Do you think Superman can beat anyone when hes pissed off.

If anyone = Firelord & Terrax; then yes.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
If anyone = Firelord & Terrax; then yes. You do know firelord has been a match for the Surfer and for Thor in the past.

And?

You do know Superman has made Darkseid beg for a quarter in the past.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
And?

You do know Superman has been a match for Darkseid in the past. Yes but Darkseid has shitty durability and avoids physical confrontations at all costs. Has Supers ever put Orion down?

Firestorm has but not Supes. Maybe he wasnt pissed off enough.

dur

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
dur Ill take that as a concession.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ill take that as a concession.

Nah.

You haven't made any real points, and neither have I. Take the dur smiley for what it is: The Dur. I haven't been here in a while and I missed it, so I had to post it.

To be honest I don't really care about entering any long dragged out debates. Just felt like posting my opinion, and not defending it out of lazyness and not much interest.

superdur

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Nah.

You haven't made any real points, and neither have I. Take the dur smiley for what it is: The Dur. I haven't been here in a while and I missed it, so I had to post it.

To be honest I don't really care about entering any long dragged out debates. Just felt like posting my opinion, and not defending it out of lazyness and not much interest.

superdur My point is a character who can give the Surfer or Thor a battle is someone who could definitely beat Superman with Terrax's help.

Spite thread...

Supes gets murderded rather quickly.

Originally posted by horrorwolf
Spite thread...

Supes gets murderded rather quickly.

This is spite in favor of Superman.
As neither can deal with an instant blitz from Superman.
Superman blitzes Firelord in a nanosecond and then in the next nanosecond he easily beats Terrax.
It is impossible for these two together to win against Superman even once.

Originally posted by quanchi112
My point is a character who can give the Surfer or Thor a battle is someone who could definitely beat Superman with Terrax's help.

That is bad logic.
Both Surfer and Thor have terrible battle and reaction speeds. So comparing a fight with them with a fight with Superman is folly.
Firelord won't get a chance to blink when the fight starts. He will be koed or kill in nanoseconds.

Originally posted by Bnmcd
So if he is as strong as 1,000 galaxies, then he is stronger than celestials, glactus etc.

Only when sundipped is he that powerful.
Now Big G and the Celestials can amp too. Thus increasing their power to any degree.

Originally posted by h1a8
This is spite in favor of Superman.
As neither can deal with an instant blitz from Superman.
Superman blitzes Firelord in a nanosecond and then in the next nanosecond he easily beats Terrax.
It is impossible for these two together to win against Superman even once. Show me scans of Superman blitzing a herald-level foe in a nanosecond and defeating him, and then show me a scan where he repeats it to a second herald-level foe. Then some of the posters on this thread might actually take you seriously.
Originally posted by h1a8
That is bad logic.
Both Surfer and Thor have terrible battle and reaction speeds. So comparing a fight with them with a fight with Superman is folly.
Firelord won't get a chance to blink when the fight starts. He will be koed or kill in nanoseconds.Uhh. What? Surfer and Thor have shown been shown to have great battle and reaction speeds. And I will even grant you that they do have some glaring instances of low-end speed feats, but you act as if Superman doesn't have disgustingly low-end feats as well. Trust me, they are there. You're assessing a double-standard.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Show me scans of Superman blitzing a herald-level foe in a nanosecond and defeating him, and then show me a scan where he repeats it to a second herald-level foe. Then some of the posters on this thread might actually take you seriously.

That's like asking me to show you where Superman has lifted a bulldozer. But by the fact that he lifted heaver or equal weighed objects proves that he can lift the bulldozer (even though I think he never did lift one).
Superman has instantly blitzed plently of beings that has awesome reflexes a countless number of times. In "nanoseconds" is just a good guess but it doesn't matter exactly since it will be (the blitz) seemingly instant to the herald. So the burden of proof is for you to actually show that a herald can not be blitzed by Superman's speed (due to their reactions and instant speed).

Yes greater than a human's of course. But greater than Superman (by their high end feats)? Not!

There is no double standard. Because of forum rules, I used high end feats for everyone, as long as it isn't PIS. So both Surfer's and Thor's high end feats shows that they have terrible battle speed and reflexes when compared to Superman's high end feats.

Originally posted by h1a8
That is bad logic.
Both Surfer and Thor have terrible battle and reaction speeds. So comparing a fight with them with a fight with Superman is folly.
Firelord won't get a chance to blink when the fight starts. He will be koed or kill in nanoseconds. This is ridiculous I have seen Superman fight countless times and he isnt speedblitzing everyone. Its silly to think he beats everyone in this manner. To think Firelord loses to speed is hilarious to me. These guys are heralds to Galactus and you seem to think they cant react to Kal'el's speed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This is ridiculous I have seen Superman fight countless times and he isnt speedblitzing everyone. Its silly to think he beats everyone in this manner. To think Firelord loses to speed is hilarious to me. These guys are heralds to Galactus and you seem to think they cant react to Kal'el's speed.

That doesn't mean he doesn't have it in him to speed blitz. You can't deny this power of his. Silly? Hilarious? And what on God's green Earth makes you think that heralds automatically have the reflexes to dodge Superman's top speed blitz? Give me one good reason.

Heralds are garbage. They're nothing to me if I had Superman's powers. I could kill any herald easily. And that's a fact Jack.


Answer this Quanchi:
What is the maximum amount of punches that Superman needs to ko Firelord? Be honest!

Originally posted by h1a8
That doesn't mean he doesn't have it in him to speed blitz. You can't deny this power of his. Silly? Hilarious? And what on God's green Earth makes you think that heralds automatically have the reflexes to dodge Superman's top speed blitz? Give me one good reason.

Heralds are garbage. They're nothing to me if I had Superman's powers. I could kill any herald easily. And that's a fact Jack.


Answer this Quanchi:
What is the maximum amount of punches that Superman needs to ko Firelord? Be honest! I dont know ho wmany punches but he wont get to becuz hell be kod by Terrax's axe before that happens.

Do you think Galactus makes pussies for heralds?

Originally posted by quanchi112
I dont know ho wmany punches but he wont get to becuz hell be kod by Terrax's axe before that happens.

Do you think Galactus makes pussies for heralds?

I asked for your opinion, but you chickened out.

Terrax hasn't even proven to have the reflexes and battle speed greater than Captain America's. Superman would take that axe and make him a Terrax two piece.

Yes, Galactus does makes P's for heralds if they are not as battle fast as Superman. Speed is the king of all things that can be destroyed by it.
This thread is spite in favor of Superman and you know it. There is no way Firelord will not be koed by a speedy combination (1 punch is all it takes though) before Terrax can react. Terrax then gets his before he can run away.

Answer this:
If Firelord and Terrax had the highest battle speed and reflexes that ever was shown for them in comics and if you had Superman's powers with the highest speed shown for you as well and you fought Firelord and Terrax at the same time, what would you do when the battle started? Do you think you would win?

Team two herald takes the majority two heralds would give sups a hard time.

Originally posted by h1a8
I asked for your opinion, but you chickened out.

Terrax hasn't even proven to have the reflexes and battle speed greater than Captain America's. Superman would take that axe and make him a Terrax two piece.

Yes, Galactus does makes P's for heralds if they are not as battle fast as Superman. Speed is the king of all things that can be destroyed by it.
This thread is spite in favor of Superman and you know it. There is no way Firelord will not be koed by a speedy combination (1 punch is all it takes though) before Terrax can react. Terrax then gets his before he can run away.

Answer this:
If Firelord and Terrax had the highest battle speed and reflexes that ever was shown for them in comics and if you had Superman's powers with the highest speed shown for you as well and you fought Firelord and Terrax at the same time, what would you do when the battle started? Do you think you would win? Why do most seem t disagree with you then if its spite.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Why do most seem t disagree with you then if its spite.

Because most comic fans use a certain type of faulty reasoning.
This faulty is based on bias and faulty abc logic.
I typically don't (maybe sometimes) have these problems because I am a logician and mathematician first and comic fan second.

Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe that both Firelord and Terrax have more than the power to kill Superman (overkill actually). It's just that I don't think they would get the chance because of both Superman's speed and they're lack of showing enough battle speed in their history to combat Superman's speed.

Originally posted by h1a8
Because most comic fans use a certain type of faulty reasoning.
This faulty is based on bias and faulty abc logic.
I typically don't (maybe sometimes) have these problems because I am a logician and mathematician first and comic fan second.

Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe that both Firelord and Terrax have more than the power to kill Superman (overkill actually). It's just that I don't think they would get the chance because of both Superman's speed and they're lack of showing enough battle speed in their history to combat Superman's speed. Why do most give Thanos a win over Superman when he lacks his speed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Why do most give Thanos a win over Superman when he lacks his speed.
Maybe because he has defeated people who are fast as Superman or Faster.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Why do most give Thanos a win over Superman when he lacks his speed.

I don't.

This thread is over. Superman can't beat Two herald lvl beings.

Speed will always beat anyone it is capable of.
Supe wins 10/10

Originally posted by h1a8
Speed will always beat anyone it is capable of.
Supe wins 10/10

Speed Only wins if the person doesn't have the senses and reflexes to deal with it. Superman is fast, but he isn't flash fast. He can't pwn two Heralds at the same time. Not when one is very close to him in power, and the other is close to that. I could see if it was someone like thor, who on panel had his arm broken by a suprise attack.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Speed Only wins if the person doesn't have the senses and reflexes to deal with it. Superman is fast, but he isn't flash fast. He can't pwn two Heralds at the same time. Not when one is very close to him in power, and the other is close to that. I could see if it was someone like thor, who on panel had his arm broken by a suprise attack.

True that! But no Herald has the reflexes to deal with Superman's speed. Now saying they do just because they are a "Herald" is just like saying that Superman wins because he has an "S" on his chest and his name is "Superman". Being a Herald doesn't necessarily define one to have the reflexes to deal with Superman's speed. Otherwise, it would be at least one feat showing that this is the case.
Since there aren't many (none in fact) then we can say that no Herald possesses this type of power. Thus Supes wins easily.

Now don't get me wrong. All Heralds have superhuman speed and reflexes (better than a human's) but not to the level where they can respond to Superman's best, even when they are at their best as well.

I forsee Terrax getting eventuallyl pwned by Superman 1st in this fight, but Firelord poses problems for Supes.

Whether or not Superman takes the majority here depends on if he is bloodlusted.

If he pisses around at all and fights in typical Kent style, he loses majority.


And all the speedblitz and one-shotting talk is complete and utter fanboy BS.

Originally posted by h1a8
True that! But no Herald has the reflexes to deal with Superman's speed.

So true

Originally posted by h1a8
That's like asking me to show you where Superman has lifted a bulldozer. But by the fact that he lifted heaver or equal weighed objects proves that he can lift the bulldozer (even though I think he never did lift one).
Superman has instantly blitzed plently of beings that has awesome reflexes a countless number of times. In "nanoseconds" is just a good guess but it doesn't matter exactly since it will be (the blitz) seemingly instant to the herald. So the burden of proof is for you to actually show that a herald can not be blitzed by Superman's speed (due to their reactions and instant speed).And yet, I'm still waiting for you to show me where he's beaten a herald level foe in a nanosecond. I'll keep waiting. Still waiting. Still waiting. Until then:

Split 5/10.
Originally posted by h1a8
Yes greater than a human's of course. But greater than Superman (by their high end feats)? Not!

There is no double standard. Because of forum rules, I used high end feats for everyone, as long as it isn't PIS. So both Surfer's and Thor's high end feats shows that they have terrible battle speed and reflexes when compared to Superman's high end feats. Ok, then let me show you how KMC'ers who want to prove their points do it, when someone asks for proof, they give it. When someone argues a point, they support it. I'll list two high end feats respectively for Surfer and Thor and you go ahead and let me know just how terrible their battle speed and reflexes are:

1) Surfer's battle speed/reaction time. Here, Surfer breaks through a barrier and is enshackled instnatly thereafter, he then has a nanosecond to react and free himself:
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/48/marvelcomicspresents001fk4.jpg

2) Thor's battle speed/reaction time. Here Rachel Grey Pheonix shoots a telepathic bolt at Thor. Thor raises his hammer and deflects the bolt back at her. As you can see from the panel progression, he makes this entire move AFTER she had already shot the telepathic bolt.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And yet, I'm still waiting for you to show me where he's beaten a herald level foe in a nanosecond. I'll keep waiting. Still waiting. Still waiting. Until then:

Split 5/10.
Ok, then let me show you how KMC'ers who want to prove their points do it, when someone asks for proof, they give it. When someone argues a point, they support it. I'll list two high end feats respectively for Surfer and Thor and you go ahead and let me know just how terrible their battle speed and reflexes are:

1) Surfer's battle speed/reaction time. Here, Surfer breaks through a barrier and is enshackled instnatly thereafter, he then has a nanosecond to react and free himself:
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/48/marvelcomicspresents001fk4.jpg

2) Thor's battle speed/reaction time. Here Rachel Grey Pheonix shoots a telepathic bolt at Thor. Thor raises his hammer and deflects the bolt back at her. As you can see from the panel progression, he makes this entire move AFTER she had already shot the telepathic bolt.

NOt that I think Superman wins this majority, But Surfer doing something in a nano second isn't a battle feat of speed, and Thor blocking a psy bolt isn't either. That is reflex speed and hand Eye coordination. Plus Rachel wasn't moving very fast herself. had she fired that same bolt while flying around at light speed, He wouldn't have known which way it was coming from and wouldn't have been able to react to the blast.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
NOt that I think Superman wins this majority, But Surfer doing something in a nano second isn't a battle feat of speed, and Thor blocking a psy bolt isn't either. That is reflex speed and hand Eye coordination. Plus Rachel wasn't moving very fast herself. had she fired that same bolt while flying around at light speed, He wouldn't have known which way it was coming from and wouldn't have been able to react to the blast. He's breaking free of a construct that is siphoning his Power Cosmic in a nano-second ambush. How is that not battle-speed? Phoenix is firing an instantaneous telepathic bolt at Thor and Thor raises his arms after she has already shot it to deflect it back. How is that not battle-speed? I thought battle-speed was not how fats you can propel yourself (that's travelling speed), but how quickly you can move your limbs and react in both offensive and defensive moves. Both scans are examples of that.

The former shows that Surfer can assess a situation, react and bring his strength to bear in a nanosecond. The latter shows that Thor is able to react defensively and move his arms fast enough to beat out a telepathic bolt's speed. And I'm not so sure it's safe to assume Thor couldn't defend or react to blasts from someone flying at great speeds:

I am a sock of nvers. In fact nver is my sock. I make him seem very stupid for the lulz!

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
He's breaking free of a construct that is siphoning his Power Cosmic in a nano-second ambush. How is that not battle-speed? Phoenix is firing an instantaneous telepathic bolt at Thor and Thor raises his arms after she has already shot it to deflect it back. How is that not battle-speed? I thought battle-speed was not how fats you can propel yourself (that's travelling speed), but how quickly you can move your limbs and react in both offensive and defensive moves. Both scans are examples of that.

The former shows that Surfer can assess a situation, react and bring his strength to bear in a nanosecond. The latter shows that Thor is able to react defensively and move his arms fast enough to beat out a telepathic bolt's speed. And I'm not so sure it's safe to assume Thor couldn't defend or react to blasts from someone flying at great speeds:

This scan actually makes Thor and Mjolnir looks far faster than SS. Surfer almost looks like he's standing still while Thor throws and catches Mjolnir...and SS is almost in the same place and position.

Originally posted by Avlon
This scan actually makes Thor and Mjolnir looks far faster than SS. Surfer almost looks like he's standing still while Thor throws and catches Mjolnir...and SS is almost in the same place and position. I see what you mean. But the way I interpret the scene is that Surfer is moving forwards and Thor is moving backwards. There arent many speed lines to indicate movement, but if you look at the top you'll clearly see speed lines trailing Silver Surfer to the left indicating he is moving forward. But if you look in front of him to the right, there are also speed lines. You don't get speed lines from stuff that's in front of you... unless... those speed lines indicate the movement of what's preceding them, in this case, Thor. So yeah, I see it as Surfer chasing Thor, Thor is flying backwards and heaves his hammer, etc. Yeah, art's not so hot.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And yet, I'm still waiting for you to show me where he's beaten a herald level foe in a nanosecond. I'll keep waiting. Still waiting. Still waiting. Until then: You're using fallacious arguments. You are telling me to prove something by showing that Superman has blitzed a Herald in a nanosecond.
Proof by showing is not the only means of proof. Proof by deductive reasoning is the strongest proof there is. I provided this proof already.
Supe has blitzed many foes with super speed and reflexes (this is undeniable), Firelord has never shown Superman level battle speed and reflexes and has shown that he has less. Thus by deduction, Superman can blitz Firelord before he can respond.



The SS scan has been argued a billion times and already proven to be hyperbole. This is because he utters a complete sentence in his mind the entire time he is trying to free himself. That's no nanosecond! And also, sayings like "it took me a second" or "if I stay in there a second longer", doesn't literally mean a "second". This is common hyperbole in the English language.

Now with the Thor feat, I agree that Thor has superhuman reflexes (This is common sense). But blocking a slow moving (with respect to Superman's speed) TP bolt proves nothing of reacting to Superman's speed. Everything in Thor's entire history contradicts him reacting to Supes speed.

Originally posted by horrorwolf
I forsee Terrax getting eventuallyl pwned by Superman 1st in this fight, but Firelord poses problems for Supes.

Whether or not Superman takes the majority here depends on if he is bloodlusted.

If he pisses around at all and fights in typical Kent style, he loses majority.


And all the speedblitz and one-shotting talk is complete and utter fanboy BS.
I'm assuming that Superman fights at his best. That means super speed.
The reasoning that Superman can one-shot Firelord lies in both the facts that Firelord jobbed to Spiderman and the fact that Superman would never job to Spiderman (even under the highest PIS). This singlehandedly proves that Superman and Firelord are on entirely different planes of physicality. No herald ever has shown great battle reflexes. This is true. I won't lie to you. Thus giving them this type of power when they have never shown it and have shown the opposite is very fallacious. If proof is provided showing the contrary them I humbly concede. I try to argue objectively (fanboyish arguments aside).