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I have read book entitled "Islam in focus" written by Hammudah Abdalati who lived in canada, a renowned late Islamic scholar in North america. The life story of Muhammad began his peaceful propagation message with the arab tribal groups but later part of his life and revelations he became intolerant to arab tribal groups and the with christians and jews. During chaotic times and oppressions between tribal and religious groups in arabia and followers of Muhammad(muslims), He wen to wage war and commaded his muslim followers to kill the infidels until they believed in Allah, the god of Islam. He then became a successful religio-politcal leader in the arabia.

I happened to read a passage in that book which stated: ".... if there is any religion or constitution to guarantee peaceful freedom of religion and forbid compulsion in religion, it is Islam and islam alone..." as stated in early revelation of sura 2:256, “There is no compulsion in religion”. But for me this is not entirely true. In the latter revelation of Muhammad's life, this teaching is abrogated by later verses which state that Islam is to be “shown” to people of other faiths who, if they refuse to acknowledge, accept and follow it, are then are to be slain (suras 9:5, 47:5, and 8:39 among others) in which Muhammad became intolerant with others.

The book is biased because it does not touched upon the totality of Quran/Islam. Hence, we could see in the contemporary islamic law(shariah) and in many Islamic countries, only the religion of Islam was compelled to believe and any muslims who wish to leave(apostate) islam will be punished or beheaded.

Is Muhammad a religious saint or an intolerant political leader? Is islam a religion or a more political ideology?

just another religion thats out of date

Originally posted by mahasattva
I happened to read a passage in that book which stated: ".... if there is any religion or constitution to guarantee peaceful freedom of religion and forbid compulsion in religion, it is Islam and islam alone..." as stated in early revelation of sura 2:256, “There is no compulsion in religion”. But for me this is not entirely true. In the latter revelation of Muhammad's life, this teaching is abrogated by later verses which state that Islam is to be “shown” to people of other faiths who, if they refuse to acknowledge, accept and follow it, are then are to be slain (suras 9:5, 47:5, and 8:39 among others) in which Muhammad became intolerant with others.

The book is biased because it does not touched upon the totality of Quran/Islam. Hence, we could see in the contemporary islamic law(shariah) and in many Islamic countries, only the religion of Islam was compelled to believe and any muslims who wish to leave(apostate) islam will be punished or beheaded.

Is Muhammad a religious saint or an intolerant political leader? Is islam a religion or a more political ideology?

As opposed to mainstream Christianity that says even if a man never hears of Christ that same man must be placed in an eternal fire. Stoning was never condemned by Christ, he merely placed a requirement on the one doing the stoning.

The Bible is full of similar comments to one not of the Christian faith.

When you hold a mirror up to someone else hold it up to yourself. I do not know your religion, but I doubt I could not find statements that are off in yours as well.

The Islamic faith is a wonderful thing, it has many wonderful teachings. Interpretation by those with their own agendas in mind always distorts things. I cannot trust you in regards to the Nation of Islam.

Originally posted by mahasattva

Is Muhammad a religious saint or an intolerant political leader?

Of course he isn't a saint, because that's a Catholic concept. And it's argued and commonly believed that Muslims follow Moses more than they do Mohammed.

Originally posted by mahasattva
Is islam a religion or a more political ideology?

Both.

then these believer of that should draw moses and mohammed as comic cartoon and see what drawing raises most hell

Originally posted by Regret
As opposed to mainstream Christianity that says even if a man never hears of Christ that same man must be placed in an eternal fire. Stoning was never condemned by Christ, he merely placed a requirement on the one doing the stoning.

The Bible is full of similar comments to one not of the Christian faith.

When you hold a mirror up to someone else hold it up to yourself. I do not know your religion, but I doubt I could not find statements that are off in yours as well.

The Islamic faith is a wonderful thing, it has many wonderful teachings. Interpretation by those with their own agendas in mind always distorts things. I cannot trust you in regards to the Nation of Islam.

what is wonderful in islam that Muhammad teaches about other religions?

nothing wonderful in islam..........or any other religions, brainwashing of feeble minds thats what religion is all about ......all of them

Originally posted by anaconda
nothing wonderful in islam..........or any other religions, brainwashing of feeble minds thats what religion is all about ......all of them Care to explain Buddhism as brainwashing?

Originally posted by anaconda
nothing wonderful in islam..........or any other religions, brainwashing of feeble minds thats what religion is all about ......all of them

u mean the dogmatic faith of the 3 abrahamic religions? what about eastern philosophies/religions

so now buddism is a religion? make up your mind about this ideology either it is or it aint a religion, still all philosophies are brainwashing mass suggession. follow this and that, does buddism advocate itself or do they have people out to "marketing it" if they do it is "brainwashing" if not , well it wouldn't attract attention so yes in the end brainwashing

all organised religion/philosophies , guess thats organisation of it does

Originally posted by anaconda
nothing wonderful in islam..........or any other religions, brainwashing of feeble minds thats what religion is all about ......all of them

Yeah, because obviously its imposible for an intelligent person to seek religion and practice it entirely on his accord right? The billions of theists in the world clearly are the mind-zombies of guys in suits.

Originally posted by mahasattva
u mean the dogmatic faith of the 3 abrahamic religions? what about eastern philosophies/religions

That's a major complaint I have agianst the outspoken anti-religion Atheists. Dawkins, Hitchens this anacona vato fixate and focus their comtempt of "fairytales" on the Abrahamic religions. I wanna tap Hitchens on the shoulder and say "You know...this may come as a surprise, but uh....there's more than just three religions in the world." I have yet to hear Christopher Hitchens acknowledge the existence of Budddhism, Hinduism, Native American religions or any religion that doesn't involve Abraham.

nah only the leaders wear the suits fited, how many percentage of those following a religion is influenced by their parents, by the likes of being draged to the church/temple/moske before they are at the age of making thier mind up what this is all about?

Originally posted by anaconda
so now buddism is a religion? make up your mind about this ideology either it is or it aint a religion, still all philosophies are brainwashing mass suggession. follow this and that, does buddism advocate itself or do they have people out to "marketing it" if they do it is "brainwashing" if not , well it wouldn't attract attention so yes in the end brainwashing

These are basic principles what the Buddha teaches:

"Doubt everything and find your own light...."


"Don't believe in anything simply because you heard it.
Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.
Do not believe in anything because it is spoken and rumored by many.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
But after observation and analysis, you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept and live up to it."


Buddhism is essentially nonauthoritarian, democratic, scientific and based on insights obtained primarily through individual efforts towards enlightenment or self-perfection. The community of Buddhists are mainly to encourage and mutual support to one another in faith as life are interconnected that support and nourish with all other things. It is also a practical of human spirit which is unity "many in body but one in mind" towards a common goal which selfless and altruistic behavior and not self-centered and egoistic existence...

Originally posted by anaconda
nothing wonderful in islam..........or any other religions, brainwashing of feeble minds thats what religion is all about ......all of them

Considering that there are thousands of different forms of Christianity alone a generalization like that is simply foolish.

oh and Dalai Lama is what then

so the temples are just for show then, the monks in their yellow and red sheets are what freaks or just buddhists in uniforms, and again Dailai Lama is what?

Originally posted by anaconda
nothing wonderful in islam..........or any other religions, brainwashing of feeble minds thats what religion is all about ......all of them

i......like you

Originally posted by anaconda
nothing wonderful in islam.....

Nothing? Why nothing? If you have your complaints about it because you don't like every single aspect about it, that's understandable, but why is nothing about Islam wonderful? Do you know enough about it to say something like that, or is everything you know about Islam based on what you see on the news?

Originally posted by anaconda
oh and Dalai Lama is what then


Believed to be an incarnation of the Buddha.

Originally posted by anaconda
oh and Dalai Lama is what then

so the temples are just for show then, the monks in their yellow and red sheets are what freaks or just buddhists in uniforms, and again Dailai Lama is what?

Dalai Lama is not only a religious leader but the head of political state in Tibet. I am not belong or associated with tibetan tradition. So, its not my position to speak on their culture.

Originally posted by mahasattva
These are basic principles what the Buddha teaches:

"Doubt everything and find your own light...."


"Don't believe in anything simply because you heard it.
Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.
Do not believe in anything because it is spoken and rumored by many.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
But after observation and analysis, you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept and live up to it."


Buddhism is essentially nonauthoritarian, democratic, scientific and based on insights obtained primarily through individual efforts towards enlightenment or self-perfection. The community of Buddhists are mainly to encourage and mutual support to one another in faith as life are interconnected that support and nourish with all other things. It is also a practical of human spirit which is unity "many in body but one in mind" towards a common goal which selfless and altruistic behavior and not self-centered and egoistic existence... ROFL, punks of the world unite under the flag of Buddhism...

Buddhism basically teaches the punk version of religion from your description here. Skepticism is just as brainwashing as solidarity.

Originally posted by mahasattva
what is wonderful in islam that Muhammad teaches about other religions? I do not quite understand your question. I believe you interpret the Qur'an in error. I do not believe the message of the Qur'an for interaction with non Muslims is violence. I believe the message is attempts at peaceful coexistence. I believe some fanatical Muslims and some non-Muslims such as yourself interpret the Qur'an as violent. I know many Muslims, and they are a wonderful, peaceful, moral people, unlike many western people.

well technically a muslim wud say that it isnt muhammad's relegion but god's relegion for everybody.

Originally posted by Regret
ROFL, punks of the world unite under the flag of Buddhism...

I would say technically in Buddhist terminologies, to unite means in harmony and co-existence with all other beings...

I do not quite understand your question. I believe you interpret the Qur'an in error. I do not believe the message of the Qur'an for interaction with non Muslims is violence. I believe the message is attempts at peaceful coexistence. I believe some fanatical Muslims and some non-Muslims such as yourself interpret the Qur'an as violent. I know many Muslims, and they are a wonderful, peaceful, moral people, unlike many western people.

Muslims who are not acquainted in Quran and what Muhammad teaches are indeed wonderful, peaceful and moral people because by nature human beings are good but if someone read the quran and follow what muhammad teaches that is different thing. I have a close friend who is converted to Islam and was indoctrinated with Islamic ideologies discriminating people dividing the world as between muslim and non-muslims. He is filled with so much discrimination with his fellow constituents who are non-muslims since my country is a dominant Christian religion.

I always taught him to love his fellow beings irrespective of their beliefs. Our world is not divided between muslims and non-musllims, christians and non-christians or Buddhists and non-buddhists. We are all citizen of humanity in this world. Hence, he practise Buddhist faith together with me.

just how I feel about religion, all of them
I know enough about it, and it aint what I seen on the news its experienced

Originally posted by anaconda
just another religion thats out of date

Explain please.

Originally posted by mahasattva
Originally posted by Regret
ROFL, punks of the world unite under the flag of Buddhism...

I would say technically in Buddhist terminologies, to unite means in harmony and co-existence with all other beings...

Originally posted by Regret
I do not quite understand your question. I believe you interpret the Qur'an in error. I do not believe the message of the Qur'an for interaction with non Muslims is violence. I believe the message is attempts at peaceful coexistence. I believe some fanatical Muslims and some non-Muslims such as yourself interpret the Qur'an as violent. I know many Muslims, and they are a wonderful, peaceful, moral people, unlike many western people.

Muslims who are not acquainted in Quran and what Muhammad teaches are indeed wonderful, peaceful and moral people because by nature human beings are good but if someone read the quran and follow what muhammad teaches that is different thing. I have a close friend who is converted to Islam and was indoctrinated with Islamic ideologies discriminating people dividing the world as between muslim and non-muslims. He is filled with so much discrimination with his fellow constituents who are non-muslims since my country is a dominant Christian religion.

I always taught him to love his fellow beings irrespective of their beliefs. Our world is not divided between muslims and non-musllims, christians and non-christians or Buddhists and non-buddhists. We are all citizen of humanity in this world. Hence, he practise Buddhist faith together with me.

Buddhists that are non-anarchist in nature who are not acquainted in Tripitaka, Mahayana Sutras and what Buddha teaches are indeed non-anarchist in nature because by nature human beings are good but if someone read the Tripitaka and Mahayana Sutras and follow what Buddha teaches that is different thing. (Sarcasm, not my belief)

Anarchy does not necessitate violence or aggression. You obviously have not spent time with punks. Yes, they often are aggressive and violent, but such is not required.

You are too judgemental of others, and too narrow minded in your assessment of Muhammad and his teachings. Maybe someday you will come to a better understanding of the text. Read the Qur'an with a more open mind, forgetting your bias and assume the best. Ignore interpretations that are anything but good in your mind, you will see that it is a good book and not some bloodthirsty text.

it doesnt fit todays society, its ancient , its rules doesnt comply to a modern world

Hear, hear! Our world is always evolving. Anything stagnant disrupts the evolution.

Originally posted by anaconda
it doesnt fit todays society, its ancient , its rules doesnt comply to a modern world

What if its the society thats gone wrong and the religion is still valid and correct...I mean from that point of logic having sex with a 12 year old is actually perfectly OK...if your in the right century...so you admit that while its not OK now, it may be in say 10 years time...

^ if a twelve year old is mature enough and has appropriate social roles and emotional stability, then it often is ok. but youll see that its gonna be very hard to find such conditions in entirety in any time in history. and ofcourse on thing time cant change so easily is the human anatomy, and hence the fact that kids arent physically READY to have sex then and it hurt etc. so there u go, a good reason why its always wrong.

moral standards have evolved in time, religion hasn't.
One example is the gay couples question, another is that more and more couples tend to live together without getting married, more and more people ,at least in my country, baptise their kids without any religious interference, and for those who are getting married more and more marry at the court house or the humanist organisation.
Also now it is talk about quiting christianity as a subject in school and replace it with a more liberal and religious neutral subject. The church whine their ass of for this proposition, but I wish it welcome, I dont want my kids being spoon fed with the indoctrination of the christian faith I had to go through during school. When old enough they can make up their own mind about wheter to believe and follow a religion or not, I wont tell them what to do, but if asked they will get my view on it

Originally posted by Regret
I would say technically in Buddhist terminologies, to unite means in harmony and co-existence with all other beings...



Muslims who are not acquainted in Quran and what Muhammad teaches are indeed wonderful, peaceful and moral people because by nature human beings are good but if someone read the quran and follow what muhammad teaches that is different thing. I have a close friend who is converted to Islam and was indoctrinated with Islamic ideologies discriminating people dividing the world as between muslim and non-muslims. He is filled with so much discrimination with his fellow constituents who are non-muslims since my country is a dominant Christian religion.

I always taught him to love his fellow beings irrespective of their beliefs. Our world is not divided between muslims and non-musllims, christians and non-christians or Buddhists and non-buddhists. We are all citizen of humanity in this world. Hence, he practise Buddhist faith together with me.

Buddhists that are non-anarchist in nature who are not acquainted in Tripitaka, Mahayana Sutras and what Buddha teaches are indeed non-anarchist in nature because by nature human beings are good but if someone read the Tripitaka and Mahayana Sutras and follow what Buddha teaches that is different thing. (Sarcasm, not my belief)

Anarchy does not necessitate violence or aggression. You obviously have not spent time with punks. Yes, they often are aggressive and violent, but such is not required.

You are too judgemental of others, and too narrow minded in your assessment of Muhammad and his teachings. Maybe someday you will come to a better understanding of the text. Read the Qur'an with a more open mind, forgetting your bias and assume the best. Ignore interpretations that are anything but good in your mind, you will see that it is a good book and not some bloodthirsty text.


Buddhism do not divide the world as Buddhist or non-buddhist. We are all human beings who seeks happiness in life. Non-dogmatic teachings is foreign to Buddhism. Buddhism do not hold that it is the only true religion. I am critical to dogmatic ideologies who claimed they are the only Way or pefect truth.

Don't worry, my impressions on Islam might be changed. I have borrowed and get the book of quran in my hand and started to scrutinize the book's history and life of muhammad. And to find the answers why my friend is filled with so much hatred or discrimination or why a lot of my fellow muslim filipinos in my land wanted to separate between muslim and non-muslims community in the Philippines. I know most of my fellow ordinary muslim filipinos are nice and peaceful but are illterate while most of the educated and separatist muslims who learned much of the Quran, especially who holds in power are the one taking advantage to separate Mindanao and make war with the government. I wanted to stop the narrow-mindedness of Islam(not the muslim per se).

Originally posted by Regret
ROFL, punks of the world unite under the flag of Buddhism...

Buddhism basically teaches the punk version of religion from your description here. Skepticism is just as brainwashing as solidarity.


How is it skeptic? All buddha is saying is give deep thought to what people say. So you think he should have said just believe what everybody tells you? Wow totally took Buddhas teaching out of context.

Originally posted by Regret

I do not quite understand your question. I believe you interpret the Qur'an in error. I do not believe the message of the Qur'an for interaction with non Muslims is violence. I believe the message is attempts at peaceful coexistence. I believe some fanatical Muslims and some non-Muslims such as yourself interpret the Qur'an as violent. I know many Muslims, and they are a wonderful, peaceful, moral people, unlike many western people.

Right so you know the Mohammeds life story?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Of course he isn't a saint, because that's a Catholic concept. .

I think you have the concept of the saint in hidnuism as well.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota

And it's argued and commonly believed that Muslims follow Moses more than they do Mohammed.

.

........since when? Dont you mean Moses more than Jesus?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
well technically a muslim wud say that it isnt muhammad's relegion but god's relegion for everybody.

Whose God? Christianity(Jesus understanding of God as Abba(Aramaic word for daddy) and Islam(Muhammads' Allah) are different. Within Christianity there are different conceptions of God while Muhammad has different pereception of God who is Allah which is full hatred who brings violence and Terror. This is not the God that Jesus spoke of which is Love.

Originally posted by mahasattva
Whose God? Christianity(Jesus understanding of God as Abba(Aramaic word for daddy) and Islam(Muhammads' Allah) are different. Within Christianity there are different conceptions of God while Muhammad has different pereception of God who is Allah which is full hatred who brings violence and Terror. This is not the God that Jesus spoke of which is Love.

there isnt a single unambiguous statement in the entire bible where jesus HIMSELF states that he is the biological son of god. nor of trinity.
we do not know much about what jesus beleived to be god, most of it is paul. and the god of both the old and new testament is full of hatred/egotistical/jealous/subject to petty emotion. do not be deluded into beleiving that the christian god is any more loving than the muslim god. there is very little distinction between them as far as true generosity and benevolance goes. the christian god is every bit as hateful and a bringer of violence and terror as the muslim god. but both can be loving as well.

anyway, are you a christian?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
there isnt a single unambiguous statement in the entire bible where jesus HIMSELF states that he is the biological son of god. nor of trinity.
we do not know much about what jesus beleived to be god, most of it is paul. and the god of both the old and new testament is full of hatred/egotistical/jealous/subject to petty emotion. do not be deluded into beleiving that the christian god is any more loving than the muslim god. there is very little distinction between them as far as true generosity and benevolance goes. the christian god is every bit as hateful and a bringer of violence and terror as the muslim god. but both can be loving as well.

anyway, are you a christian?

I think the vengeful God oif the Bible is mainly in the Old Testament.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Originally posted by Regret
ROFL, punks of the world unite under the flag of Buddhism...

Buddhism basically teaches the punk version of religion from your description here. Skepticism is just as brainwashing as solidarity.How is it skeptic? All buddha is saying is give deep thought to what people say. So you think he should have said just believe what everybody tells you? Wow totally took Buddhas teaching out of context. Key part of my response is the phrase "from your description here" in reference to his post. My point was to turn the exact same thought process on Buddhism that he used on Islam. Using only the impression he gives, this would be my understanding of Buddhism.Originally posted by Alfheim
Right so you know the Mohammeds life story? I do.

There were violent aspects to Mohammed's life story. There is violence in most history. I doubt that one could not find some such tied to Buddhism at some point in history.

We do not have an unbiased account of exactly what happened when it comes to Islam and the violence surrounding its inception. We do not know all the factors surrounding the decisions leading to these events. All we have is what is left of the story told by various Muslims who often appear to have a violent tendency.

Originally posted by Regret
Key part of my response is the phrase "from your description here" in reference to his post. My point was to turn the exact same thought process on Buddhism that he used on Islam. Using only the impression he gives, this would be my understanding of Buddhism. I do.

Ok......


Originally posted by Regret

There were violent aspects to Mohammed's life story. There is violence in most history. I doubt that one could not find some such tied to Buddhism at some point in history.

Right but that depends on the context of the violence.

Originally posted by Regret

We do not have an unbiased account of exactly what happened when it comes to Islam and the violence surrounding its inception. We do not know all the factors surrounding the decisions leading to these events. All we have is what is left of the story told by various Muslims who often appear to have a violent tendency.

These muslims were followers of Mohammed and some knew him personally. If they all have violent tendencies its not a stretch that they got it from Mohammed.

All organized religion is a joke.

Originally posted by JackieCD
All organized religion is a joke.

Originally posted by JackieCD
All organized religion is a joke.

Troll. Sock.