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And that sentence is true. However, lots of people say "could care less" when what they actually mean is "couldn't care less" as that makes sense. Sorry, it's just annosyed me too much.

COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.

Oh, and to keep this thread open, discuss other common misuses of grammar.

Yeah, I just saved this thread.

same here

Originally posted by lord xyz
And that sentence is true. However, lots of people say "could care less" when what they actually mean is "couldn't care less" as that makes sense. Sorry, it's just annosyed me too much.

COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.

Oh, and to keep this thread open, discuss other common misuses of grammar.

Yeah, I just saved this thread.

I really couldn't care less.

It annosyed (sic) me too

Damn German; I was going to point that out.

No soup for you.

Kakashi is lame.

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Kakashi is lame. I like him. Pobably my favourite Naruto character.

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Kakashi is lame. Meh.Originally posted by Bardock42
I like him. Pobably my favourite Naruto character. P-pobably... (sic)

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Meh. P-pobably... (sic)

Yeah, see, but I could care less about grammar.


B-but not much.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I like him. Pobably my favourite Naruto character.

Gay...

Originally posted by Robtard
Gay...

He did spend several weeks alone in the desert with a teenage boy . . .

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
He did spend several weeks alone in the desert with a teenage boy . . . That wouldn't be alone then, now would it?

Originally posted by Bardock42
That wouldn't be alone then, now would it?

I could care less about you're inseine grammar rules.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
He did spend several weeks alone in the desert with a teenage boy . . .

Bardock42 or the asian cartoon character?

Originally posted by Robtard
Bardock42 or the asian cartoon character? A little from column A, a little from column B.

Originally posted by Robtard
Bardock42 or the asian cartoon character?

Since you have to know, I was the boy, the cartoon character me.


It was traumatic.


Yet nice.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I like him. Pobably my favourite Naruto character.

Overpowered crap.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Since you have to know, I was the boy, the cartoon character me.


It was traumatic.


Yet nice. Stockholm Syndrome. Damn Swedes.

NO U!

I believe it is short for "Like I could care less" in the same way "Do you mind?" is short for "Do you mind not doing that?"

Just the way language use works out sometines,

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I really couldn't care less.

I certainly could have not care less.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I believe it is short for "Like I could care less" in the same way "Do you mind?" is short for "Do you mind not doing that?"

Just the way language use works out sometines, Do you think? Because I really believe it's just people getting "couldn't care less" wrong.

That's actually not a very reasonable explanation.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
That's actually not a very reasonable explanation. Why?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I certainly could have not care less.

What stopped you?

Because it follows no logical or sensible pattern as to how such a 'mistake', in widespread and common use for a long time, could have come about. Semantic drift doesn't really work like that.

The term is used in a sarcastic/ironic manner. People using it these days may not be aware of that (having simply seen the term used elsewhere and repating the inherent meaning), but that's not the point. The intent behind the use of the term is the important point, and for those purposes "I could care less" and "I couldn't care less" have identical meaning.

And so as a used phrase, it is no more wrong to use than "Do you mind?" is.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What stopped you?

My superior intellectual cause me to stop.

Or:

My superiority intellect made me stop.

Or even:

My superior intellect cause me to stop.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Because it follows no logical or sensible pattern as to how such a 'mistake', in widespread and common use for a long time, could have come about. Semantic drift doesn't really work like that.

The term is used in a sarcastic/ironic manner. People using it these days may not be aware of that (having simply seen the term used elsewhere and repating the inherent meaning), but that's not the point. The intent behind the use of the term is the important point, and for those purposes "I could care less" and "I couldn't care less" have identical meaning.

And so as a used phrase, it is no more wrong to use than "Do you mind?" is.

Is "I could care less" a common, widely used term?


The thing I noticed is that it is used in a way you would use "couldn't care less", meaning more dry, without much chance of it being meant sarcastically. Like "But when it comes to cows drinking beer I could care less". Which, to me, just doesn't have any sarcasm in it. I am not saying that someone that consciously uses it sarcastically is wrong, I just think some people use it in a way they would use "couldn't care less", because they don't know better.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
My superior intellectual cause me to stop.

Or:

My superiority intellect made me stop.

Or even:

My superior intellect cause me to stop.







You should have stopped while you were ahead.

To the first- in the US, yes it is, pretty much.

To the second, I'll just repeat my point about it not mattering if the user has become unaware of the implied sarcasm. It's just duplication of the term when the meaning was clear. They saw it used in the sense of "I could not care any less" and continue to use it in that same sense.

And seeing as language is fulled with many of those sorts of expressions used all the time, calling it 'wrong' is rather silly.

This is how language works, and that is what the term means.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
To the first- in the US, yes it is, pretty much.

To the second, I'll just repeat my point about it not mattering if the user has become unaware of the implied sarcasm. It's just duplication of the term when the meaning was clear. They saw it used in the sense of "I could not care any less" and continue to use it in that same sense.

And seeing as language is fulled with many of those sorts of expressions used all the time, calling it 'wrong' is rather silly.

This is how language works, and that is what the term means.


Well, I think their usage of it can still be wrong as it is not the exact same thing. You can't exchange "couldn't care less" with "could care less" everytime and still be correct. To call them wrong if they do not make use of sarcasm, I believe, is quite alright. As it is not really a shortening nearly as common or logical as "do you mind".

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You should have stopped while you were ahead.

Clever little clover....mmnm..no wait...Arnold used that one in Batman and Robin....scratch that!

Originally posted by Bardock42
You can't exchange "couldn't care less" with "could care less" everytime and still be correct.

As far as I can tell, yes you can, so that renders the rest of your post moot.

Though even if you were right about that, it wouldn't make any difference, because the concept of it being a simple attribution of meaning different from the ordering of the words is still a valid linguistic shift. These things happen all the time in language; you say it is more logical with "Do you mind?" but that doesn;t stand up to any close examination. The fact of the matter is that it doesn;t mean what it literally says, but people are using it correctly because they are expressing a certain meaning using a way they have seen it expressed (correctly) elsewhere, which is all language really is.

We'll see such logical contradictions all over the place in language, like with terms such as "she's awfully nice."

You'll just have to live with it.

'Awfully nice' is an oxymoron, it's designed to be contradictory. 'I could care less' just doesn't make sense, when used in the way we are talking about.

Just calling it an oxymoron does not magically make it correct, you know. An oxymoron is often a description of an incorrect use of language. It's not 'designed' to be contradictory at all, it;s just worked out like that over time. So 'awfully nice' is an oxymoron that is correct, not correct because it is an oxymoron.

The important point is that it is logically contradictory, exactly the same as "I could care less" and "Do you mind?" meaning, basically, the opposite of what is said. So I am afraid regardless of your opinion, it does make sense.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
As far as I can tell, yes you can, so that renders the rest of your post moot.

Well, you can't though. "I could care less" has still a very specific meaning, actually opposite to "I couldn't care less". Without it being certainly sarcastic it does not have meaning.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Though even if you were right about that, it wouldn't make any difference, because the concept of it being a simple attribution of meaning different from the ordering of the words is still a valid linguistic shift. These things happen all the time in language; you say it is more logical with "Do you mind?" but that doesn;t stand up to any close examination. The fact of the matter is that it doesn;t mean what it literally says, but people are using it correctly because they are expressing a certain meaning using a way they have seen it expressed elsewhere, which is all language really is.

It's your opinion that that did happen, I believe my theory to be more likely actually. It's not particularly common in the US where I lived. You might see it sometimes on the Internet by people who without a doubt do not use it in a sarcastic manner but are under the impression that what they are saying is actually correct.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
We'll see such logical contradictions all over the place in language, like with terms such as "she's awfully nice."

You'll just have to live with it. Nah, I can still say it's wrong. I will have to live with them saying it wrongly, but I guess that's how free will works, I can accept that. I could care less about them saying that, but I do little anyways.

First of all, your first statement is wrong. Yes you can. In every single time you can say "I couldn't care less", you can say "I could care less instead." Sorry, that's an absolute; it has developed that way and it is so.

And yes, it is my opinion, and as someone whose job it is to work in this area I value that a heck of a lot more than I value yours, which is based simply on a desire to look down upon others. I cannot help that you did not see people using it but its use can be traced back decades. And you have to get opff the sarcasm thing and get onto the whole point of duplication of meaning- so it does not matter at ALL if the person using it is unaware of the sarcastic origin of the phrase. Not one tiny bit. The sarcasm thing is just an explanation of the origin of the term- that's all. Nothing to do with how it is used now. A huge number of words and phrases hawve long since lost the connection with their origin; it doesn't matter.

Yes, you can say it is wrong,. But you'll be the one who is wrong to say that. Free will and free speech does indeed mean you are perfectly capable of talking nonsense.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Just calling it an oxymoron does not magically make it correct, you know. An oxymoron is often a description of an incorrect use of language. It's not 'designed' to be contradictory at all, it;s just worked out like that over time. So 'awfully nice' is an oxymoron that is correct, not correct because it is an oxymoron.

The important point is that it is logically contradictory, exactly the same as "I could care less" and "Do you mind?" meaning, basically, the opposite of what is said. So I am afraid regardless of your opinion, it does make sense.

The fact that someone could care less, of course does make sense, but I do not agree that it is a necessarily appropriate oxymoron, as the meaning doesn't actually contain a paradox or contradiction. The contradiction's in the context, so yes, it may work at times, but a lot of the time, it's either confusing, or stupid.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
First of all, your first statement is wrong. Yes you can. In every single time you can say "I couldn't care less", you can say "I could care less instead." Sorry, that's an absolute; it has developed that way and it is so.


No.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
And yes, it is my opinion, and as someone whose job it is to work in this area I value that a heck of a lot more than I value yours, which is based simply on a desire to look down upon others. I cannot help that you did not see people using it but its use can be traced back decades. And you have to get opff the sarcasm thing and get onto the whole point of duplication of meaning- so it does not matter at ALL if the person using it is unaware of the sarcastic origin of the phrase. Not one tiny bit.

Of course you value your opinion more. I value mine more, you can convince me with arguments though if you would like to. And it does matter, as the phrase has not developed to be exchangeable. It is used wrongly at various times.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Yes, you can say it is wrong,. But you'll be the one who is wrong to say that. Free will and free speech does indeed mean you are perfectly capable of talking nonsense.

I wouldn't be. It would still be the person using a phrase that means the opposite of what they try to say.

Plenty of language can be confusing. I'm afraid you have to live with that, too. Try explaining 'awfully nice' to someone learning the language (which I have had to do, incidentally).

But that changes nothing- the fact of the matter is that the phrase "I could care less" means "I couldn't care less". It's just one of those things abput the way language develops.

Originally posted by Bardock42
No.

Of course you value your opinion more. I value mine more, you can convince me with arguments though if you would like to. And it does matter, as the phrase has not developed to be exchangeable. It is used wrongly at various times.

I wouldn't be. It would still be the person using a phrase that means the opposite of what they try to say.

I don't believe for one moment you are actually willing to listen to my arguments, seeing as I have already advanced some and you just ignored them. I suspect you don't understand and I don;t have the patience to take it through with you in minute detail. But you are simply wrong and I am exceptionally confident in that. All I can do is recomemnd you read my posts again and try to get the point about language acqusition and duplication of observed meaning, and try to get away from the kindergarten idea that there is a general trend of people making such a crass error.

You insist that is is not interchangeable. Fine. Some people can insist the sky is yellow if they want; makes no difference to the truth.

You say people are using someting that means the opposite of what they are trying to say. In any meaningful sense, you are absolutely and totally wrong there s well.

It's an attitude worthy of great contempt and shows a lack of intellectual approach.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Plenty of language can be confusing. I'm afraid you have to live with that, too. Try explaining 'awfully nice' to someone learning the language (which I have had to do, incidentally).

But that changes nothing- the fact of the matter is that the phrase "I could care less" means "I couldn't care less". It's just one of those things abput the way language develops.

It doesn't though. "I could care less" still means "I could care less", which is good, as it is quite useful if you want to say that you would be able to care less about a subject. Of course, if used sarcastically, it could mean the opposite, but if it is not used that way, it often doesn't say what the speaker means.

Originally posted by Bardock42
It doesn't though. "I could care less" still means "I could care less", which is good, as it is quite useful if you want to say that you would be able to care less about a subject. Of course, if used sarcastically, it could mean the opposite, but if it is not used that way, it often doesn't say what the speaker means.

No, it CAN mean the literal "I could care less."

But as generally used, it does not.

You really have to wrap your head around langauge. You're still stuck on this sarcasm thing; it is absurd.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I don;t believe for one moment you are actually willing to listen to my arguments, seeing as I have already advanced some and you just ignored tyhem. I suspect you domn;t understand and I don;t have the patience to take it through with you in minute detail. But you are simply wrong and I am exceptionally confident in that.


I don't think you have given any arguments. You have proposed a theory just like the one I believe in. Yours is no better founded than the one I support.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
You inssist that is is not interchangeable. Fine. Some people can insist the sky is yellow if they want; makes no difference to the truth.

True, but it is exactly what you are doing when you claim something to be a fact which isn't, without giving any sort of evidence. So we should call that one even.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
You say people are using someting that means the opposite of what they are trying to say. In any meaningful sense, you are absolutely and totally wrong there s well.

Nope. I am right.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
It's an attitude worthy of great contempt and shows a lack of intellectual approach.

Well, thanks for judging my character, but that doesn't make your position any less wrong or unsupported by facts.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, it CAN mean the literal "I could care less."

But as generally used, it does not.

You really have to wrap your head around langauge. You're still stuck on this sarcasm thing; it is absurd. It generally means what it literally says though. It is just sometimes used by people who mean to say "I couldn't care less", but fail at it.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Try explaining 'awfully nice' to someone learning the language (which I have had to do, incidentally).

The phrase "awfully nice" means exactly what it says, so nice as to cause awe. The fact that "awful" is better known with a negative connotation doesn't change that the language does not require it to have a negative meaning.

"I could care less" and "I could not care less" are not made up of words that can be misinterpreted.

No, it does not generally mean that. For sure, it MUCH more commonly means the opposite.

My stance is backed by me actually knowing what I am talking about, and understanding language, and having both studied and being qualified in that area, and knowing the way language evolves and changes and most importantly the way it absolutey does not work, which is the way you are saying it is. Furthermore it is based upon having read about the origins of the term as we can trace it back. Frankly I don't give a tiny toss about your dismissal of my opinion- you are simply speaking in ignorance. The amusing thing is how you really like to look down on people using such a phrase; watching such unbridled ignorant arrogance- smug too- always raises a smile.

Why you cannot accept these things happen in language is beyond me. What about "Tell me about it?" Can be meant literally, Very, very often means the opposite- "You don't need to tell me about it." You cannot possibly complain about the caring phrase but accept that and maintain any amount of intellecutal credibility. And you will find you use such phrases all the time.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The phrase "awfully nice" means exactly what it says, so nice as to cause awe. The fact that "awful" is better known with a negative connotation doesn't change that the language does not require it to have a negative meaning.

"I could care less" and "I could not care less" are not made up of words that can be misinterpreted.

You've tried to be clever there but failed utterly, which you would not have done if you had paid attention to what I said.

The semantic origin of 'awfully' is neither here nor there. The meaning of the word is negative.

All of this looking down on the term is simple ignorance.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, it does not generally mean that. For sure, it MUCH more commonly means the opposite.

My stance is backed by me actually knowing what I am talking about, and understanding language, and having both studied and being qualified in that area, and knowing the way language evolves and changes and most importantly the way it absolutey does not work, which is the way you are saying it is. Furthermore it is based upon having read about the origins of the term as we can trace it back. Frankly I don't give a tiny toss about your dismissal of my opinion- you are simply speaking in ignorance. The amusing thing is how you really like to look down on people using such a phrase; watching such unbridled ignorant arrogance- smug too- always raises a smile.

Why you cannot accept these things happen in language is beyond me. What about "Tellk me about it?" Can be meant literally, Very, very often means the opposite- "You don't need to tell me about it." Actually you are probably right, it has found it's way into day to day language, as much as I might disapprove of it.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, it does not generally mean that. For sure, it MUCH more commonly means the opposite.

My stance is backed by me actually knowing what I am talking about, and understanding language, and having both studied and being qualified in that area, and knowing the way language evolves and changes and most importantly the way it absolutey does not work, which is the way you are saying it is. Furthermore it is based upon having read about the origins of the term as we can trace it back. Frankly I don't give a tiny toss about your dismissal of my opinion- you are simply speaking in ignorance. The amusing thing is how you really like to look down on people using such a phrase; watching such unbridled ignorant arrogance- smug too- always raises a smile.

Why you cannot accept these things happen in language is beyond me. What about "Tellk me about it?" Can be meant literally, Very, very often means the opposite- "You don't need to tell me about it."

I really do wish you'd stop bringing personal experience with language into the debate, it holds these horrible connotations of elitism on your part.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
You've tried to be clever there but failed utterly, which you would not have done if you had paid attention to what I said.

The semantic origin of 'awfully' is neither here nor there. The meaning of the word is negative.

Not according to my dictionary. Unless you consider awe to be inherently negative.

If I wanted a Physics question answered I'd trust the opinion of the physicist. You use the term 'elitism' merely because you dislike the idea in this case that someone might actually be educated in the area and know what they are talking about. That, I am afraid, is a fact of life.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Not according to my dictionary. Unless you consider awe to be inherently negative.

"Awfully' is the adverb of 'awful' which by any meaningful or logical definition is a negative term.

As foir what Bardock says... that's a much more reasonable position. Disapprove away. I disapprove of split infinitives but I am stuck with them.

Still, if you are unable to grasp the point behind 'awfully nice', what about 'pretty ugly'?

These contradictions happen. As ever... you just have to get used to it. "Could care less" looks like it is opposite but it's just cultural intolerance to dismiss it. It has a meaning and it is used for that meaning. And it has been used long enough and widespread enough to become a term that has gained that recognition.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
"Awfully' is the adverb of 'awful' which by any meaningful or logical definition is a negative term.

Which is incorrect (forgive me for trusting a dictionary here).

Awful can mean "filled with awe" or "inspiring awe". That's part of the language.

Well, for sure- you can get really, REALLY lost putting blind faith in a dictionary without context.

You will not find one person in a hundred who uses 'awful' to mean 'full of awe' rather than 'a bad thing'.

And by extension, the same with 'awfully'.

At which point your definition doesn't mean shit.

Oh what do you know! I mean it DOES mean shit, don't I? See?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
If I wanted a Physics question answered I'd trust the opinion of the physicist. You use the term 'elitism' merely because you dislike the idea in this case that someone might actually be educated in the area and know what they are talking about. That, I am afraid, is a fact of life.

You may well be more educated in it, yes, you may well also just be lying through your teeth.

The fact remains however, that though it may have found a place within modern language, it is not good English, just as phrases like 'pimp ass ho' aren't good English. They may well be used a lot, but it doesn't mean we should all shrug our shoulders and say ''if it's used, it's good''. I believe this thread's about good use of the English language, not acceptable through majority usage.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Still, if you are unable to grasp the point behind 'awfully nice', what about 'pretty ugly'?

You are joking right?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
These contradictions happen. As ever... you just have to get used to it. "Could care less" looks like it is opposite but it's just cultural intolerance to dismiss it. It has a meaning and it is used for that meaning.

Of course. And I have.

But the point's you are using to defend that position are, in my opinion, rather poor. Unlike most of the other apparent contradictions in language "I could care less" can't be traced back to the haphazard construction of English.

That;s vague nonsense talk. 'Haphazard construction of English' is just a cover for any form of language development. The way 'could care less' came about could easily be called part of such a haphazard construction- as with "Do you Mind?" and "tell me about it."

And I am not joking at all about 'pretty ugly'. Again- explain it to someone learning the language. It is a complete reversal of the expected use of the term.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, for sure- you can get really, REALLY lost putting blind faith in a dictionary without context.

Didn't you just make a point in support of deferring to experts?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
You will not find one person in a hundred who uses 'awful' to mean 'full of awe' rather than 'a bad thing'.

And by extension, the same with 'awfully'.

Except when they say something like "awfully nice.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
At which point your definition doesn't mean shit.

Oh what do you know! I mean it DOES mean shit, don't I? See?

Well now I'm just confused as to what you are trying to say.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
You may well be more educated in it, yes, you may well also just be lying through your teeth.

The fact remains however, that though it may have found a place within modern language, it is not good English, just as phrases like 'pimp ass ho' aren't good English. They may well be used a lot, but it doesn't mean we should all shrug our shoulders and say ''if it's used, it's good''. I believe this thread's about good use of the English language, not acceptable through majority usage.

I don't care if you think I am lying or not, though I doubt you actually do.

Care to explain why it is worse langauge than any number of commonly used colloquial expressions? Actually the origin of the construction looks 100% logical to me, and there is linguistic power in the contradictory. To call it poor use of language very possibly just betrays a poor understanding of language.

May as well call possessive apostrophes a poor use of language because they have so completely buggered up the original form.

Comparing it to 'pimp ass ho' is just gibberish.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Didn't you just make a point in support of deferring to experts?



Except when they say something like "awfully nice.



Well now I'm just confused as to what you are trying to say.

Yes, you should defer to experts. if you think taking a dictionary mraning without context and using it here is the same thing as deferring to experts, you've made a large error.

You SAY it is except when people say 'awfylly nice'. Again, you won't find 1 in a hundred people consciously aware of that. They've just copied the implied meaning- EXACTLY the same way as 'Could care less' gets spread.

What I am trying to say I feel was perfectly clear. First, that the fact that no-one uses your given definition makes the given definition pointless.

Secondly, the term "Doesn't mean shit" is yet another phrase commonly used that means the opposite.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
That;s vague nonsense talk. 'Haphazard construction of English' is just a cover for any form of language development. The way 'could care less' came about could easily be called part of such a haphazard construction- as with "Do you Mind?" and "tell me about it."

Perhaps haphazard was not the ideal word.

English has an huge number of synonyms, homonyms and homophones that make misunderstandings very easy. They also make learning very difficult for nonnative speakers.

Many of the apparent strange idioms in English can trace back to that. "I could care less" doesn't.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
And I am not joking at all about 'pretty ugly'. Again- explain it to someone learning the language. It is a complete reversal of the expected use of the term.

If I had to I'd try to explain that there is more than one meaning of "pretty". Things can be "pretty big" or "pretty hot" too, using the same meaning of pretty.

Of course I've never taught a foreign language so I have no idea how well that would work.

Except that "I could care less" probably very much CAN be traced back to a logical construction. At least, logical if you accept many other terms, like the ones I have listed, which you most likely do.

And again, explaining the underlying meaning doesn't make "pretty ugly" any less seemingly nonsense. The underlying meaning to ALL of these things can be explained.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
You SAY it is except when people say 'awfylly nice'. Again, you won't find 1 in a hundred people consciously aware of that. They've just copied the implied meaning- EXACTLY the same way as 'Could care less' gets spread.

Kay, I agree with that.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
What I am trying to say I feel was perfectly clear. First, that the fact that no-one uses your given definition makes the given definition pointless.

I disagree srug

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Secondly, the term "Doesn't mean shit" is yet another phrase commonly used that means the opposite.

Plenty of things don't mean shit.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I don't care if you think I am lying or not, though I doubt you actually do.

Care to explain why it is worse langauge than any number of commonly used colloquial expressions? Actually the origin of the construction looks 100% logical to me, and there is linguistic power in the contradictory. To call it poor use of language very possibly just betrays a poor undersyanding of language.

May as well call possessive apostrophes a poor use of language because they have so completely buggered up the original form.

Comparing it to 'pimp ass ho' is just gibberish.

Well, it would not always be poor English, of course not. Though when used to mean 'I couldn't care less', it is. As the oxymoron is not in the phrase, but in the context. Of course, in some cases this can work - satire and sarcasm for example, however when used to actually mean that the person could not care less, saying they could is completely illogical. Within oxymorons there are not two meanings, there is a contradiction, within 'I could care less' there's one logical meaning and that's the one we're supposed to ignore.

That's an absurd thing to disagree with, English is descpritive, not prescriptive, Its use defines the rules, not the other way around. Therefore if there is a definition that is not recognised or used, the definitiuon is wrong.

You've also displayed a very weird take indeed on the 'meaning shit' line that rather makes me despair, frankly. "Doesn't mean shit" means "is rubbish" or "useless" or, and here is the kicker "is shit."

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Except that "I could care less" probably very much CAN be traced back to a logical construction. At least, logical if you accept many other terms, like the ones I have listed, which you most likely do.

My point is that "pretty ugly" and "awfully nice" were created more by the language than by the speakers.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
And again, explaining the underlying meaning doesn't make "pretty ugly" any less seemingly nonsense. The underlying meaning to ALL of these things can be explained.

But "pretty ugly" isn't nonsense. "I could care less" is nonsense (if only in an anal retentive way)

Originally posted by Ushgarak
That's an absurd thing to disagree with, English is descpritive, not prescriptive, Its use defines the rules, not the other way around. Therefore if there is a definition that is not recognised or used, the definitiuon is wrong.

Which I think is equally absurd.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
You've also displayed a very weird take indeed on the 'meaning shit' line that rather makes me despair, frankly. "Doesn't mean shit" means "is rubbish" or "useless" or, and here is the kicker "is shit."

I'm really not following you. Probably not enough sleep.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Well, it would not always be poor English, of course not. Though when used to mean 'I couldn't care less', it is. As the oxymoron is not in the phrase, but in the context. Of course, in some cases this can work - satire and sarcasm for example, however when used to actually mean that the person could not care less, saying they could is completely illogical. Within oxymorons there are not two meanings, there is a contradiction, within 'I could care less' there's one logical meaning and that's the one we're supposed to ignore.

Just going around in circles here- at which point I tend to pull out an argument,. I refer you once more to "Do you mind?" and "Tell me about it." Your point about there being only one logical meaning does not work at all. The 'logical' meaning is entirely irrelevant. Talking about logic in language is a dismal take anyway; just look at irregular verbs.

It is VERY important indeed that you get away friom the idea that just because the origins of the term are most likely in sarcasm, it is now therefore wrong to use it without the sarcasm. Again, go back to the 'awfully nice' thing. It doesn't matter how ignorant you are of the origin,. What you do is duplicate meaning by observation. Sarcastic or not sarcastic, 'could care less' generally means the opposite.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Which I think is equally absurd.

Perfectly within your rights to think it absurd. But it is a simple fact.

You would likely prefer French, which is prescriptive.

Of course, French is a slowly dying language, whilst English- the more open, the most changing, the most descriptive (in this use of the term, though frankly due to its multiple origins it probably does carry more description than any other major language) has become nigh-on indestructible.

You know what they say about languages that don't change...

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Just going around in circles here- at which point I tend to pull out an argument,. I refer you once more to "Do you mind?" and "Tell me about it." Your point about there being only one logical meaning does not work at all. The 'logical' meaning is entirely irrelevant. Talking about logic in language is a dismal take anyway; just look at irregular verbs.

It is VERY important indeed that you get away friom the idea that just because the origins of the term are most likely in sarcasm, it is now therefore wrong to use it without the sarcasm. Again, go back to the 'awfully nice' thing. It doesn't matter how ignorant you are of the origin,. What you do is duplicate meaning by observation. Sarcastic or not sarcastic, 'could care less' generally means the opposite.

'Do you mind?' and 'tell me about it' are either rhetorical devices, or actual phrases meant to further a discussion.

'Awfully nice' has a contradiction within the phrase, therefore an oxymoron - a contradiction in terms, 'could care less' is not comparable as it relies on the context.

Using the rational expressed by some in here, Ebonics could be considered correct/proper English. "Dat my house", of course the speaker intends to say "This is my house", still doesn't make it right though.

Here is something to think about...


When someone refers to something as terrible/not good, they call it "awful". When someone refers to something that is great/appealing, they call it "awesome". Going by that logic...it is the "awe" that is the negative portion of those two words. For something to be unbelievably great/appealling, it would have to be "awless" because no "awe" at all would better than something that is full of awe or something that has some "awe" in it.

IIII

Originally posted by lord xyz
And that sentence is true. However, lots of people say "could care less" when what they actually mean is "couldn't care less" as that makes sense. Sorry, it's just annosyed me too much.

COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.
COULDN'T CARE LESS.

Oh, and to keep this thread open, discuss other common misuses of grammar.

Yeah, I just saved this thread. That annoys me as well.

Originally posted by lord xyz
And that sentence is true. However, lots of people say "could care less" when what they actually mean is "couldn't care less" as that makes sense. Sorry, it's just annosyed me too much.



No, I really could care less. I'm , just to tired to give a fvck though

highly unlikely

lowly likely

i hate that show..

'Awfully nice' isn't really an oxymoron.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Here is something to think about...


When someone refers to something as terrible/not good, they call it "awful". When someone refers to something that is great/appealing, they call it "awesome". Going by that logic...it is the "awe" that is the negative portion of those two words. For something to be unbelievably great/appealling, it would have to be "awless" because no "awe" at all would better than something that is full of awe or something that has some "awe" in it.

IIII

Sort of like no sense at all is better than something with some sense in it?

Why has this been moved?

Yeah, we don't want it, take this back to the GDF!

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Why has this been moved?

Well?

"I outta break a broomhandel off in your ass!"

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Why has this been moved?

Originally posted by The Grey Fox
Yeah, we don't want it, take this back to the GDF!



A picky OTFer, how quaint

For the record, it really gets up my nose when someone says 'I could care less'. It sounds utterly stupid to me, but that's no doubt because of the way I'm used to the phrase being used.