Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Its RO2 Darth Bane vs ROTS Yoda
Bane does have his full orbalisk armor
Fight takes place out side of the Rakatan Temple on Lehon

1. Fore fight

2. Sabers only

3. All out

Yoda takes all.

This is a tough one because Bane is a saber beast and he has his orbalisks, which would make it very hard for Yoda to kill him. However, he's never faced anyone like Yoda before, while Yoda fought Sidious to a standstill. Seeing as how Sidious had the most powerful version of force lightning and at the very most, Bane rivals him, I see no advantage for Bane since Yoda can just fling it back at him. I would have to give this to Yoda because despite of Bane's mastery of the force, Yoda was able to stalemate and almost defeat someone superior to Bane.

Yoda takes this

Yoda wins.

Next!

I'm so glad you dipshits can post such a convincing argument. I guess Rex stopped banning noobs.

Actually Sexy you pretty much summed it all up. Congrats!

Force fight: Bane. simply because thers not much that Yoda can really do to him with the Force except chuck stuff at him.That would do much though because of the orbalisks. Plus Bane knows all sorts of nasty darkside offensive stuff.
Saber dual: Bane. Again because of the orbalisks. they augment his strength and speed and make 90% of his body impregnable. Whats Yoda gonna do anyway? Bite his shins? lol. I know Yoda's a master swordsman but so is Bane and he just has too many advantages
All-out: Its got to be Bane. For the arguement.s above.

Game, set and match. Bane wins all three.

I'm new to this so sorry about the spelling mistakes in my previous comment.
Corrections:
Theres, not thers.
That wouldn't instead of that would.
Again sorry for the mistakes.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
I'm new to this so sorry about the spelling mistakes in my previous comment.
Corrections:
Theres, not thers.
That wouldn't instead of that would.
Again sorry for the mistakes.

It's ok about your mistake but for future reference you have 15 minute period after your posts to edit them. BTW welcome to KMC


EDIT: I'm going with Yoda in all 3 In the Force Yoda could tk him and if Bane tries to hit him with lightning he could just reflect it. And as it is shown in the new Rule of Two Book Bane's orbalisk armor is weak against lightning and will die (Bane was knocked out after his lightning hit him) plus the toxin from the orbalisk kills him in 3 days. Sabers I'm going for Yoda (see Darth Sexy's reasoning) and all out it will be close but I think Yoda could beat him/

Bane has other attacks than just lightning. Revan knew lots, including:
force choke, force drain, life drain, force terror etc and she would have taught these to Bane.
Bane also has force disintegrate (as shown by Zannah) and force blast (took out a whole temple). He also pulled a whole Moon out of orbit. Yoda hasn't done anything even close to that except struggle to pull a starfighter out of some mud.
Also, I agree that Bane would have trouble with Yoda because of his unfamiliar style, but I sill think that Bane's too well protected and too aggressive. If Dooku can do it then so can the suped-up Bane.

Thanks for the welcome!!!

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Bane has other attacks than just lightning. Revan knew lots, including:
force choke, force drain, life drain, force terror etc and she would have taught these to Bane.
Question, will these work on a force user more powerful than darth bane? Whats going to stop yoad from lifting bane with the force and bang him like a ragdoll seeing that yoda could lift up mountains?

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Bane also has force disintegrate (as shown by Zannah)
Bad logic, zannah popped that guys hand without any training from bane.
Originally posted by Darth Exodus

and force blast (took out a whole temple).
Its called force wave where vader is just as good as bane in that category, oh and he destroyed the foundations of a 25 000 year old temple, not the whole temple itself.
Originally posted by Darth Exodus

He also pulled a whole Moon out of orbit.
Don't lie, he NEVER pulled a moon out of orbit.
Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Yoda hasn't done anything even close to that except struggle to pull a starfighter out of some mud.
See the above.
Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Also, I agree that Bane would have trouble with Yoda because of his unfamiliar style, but I sill think that Bane's too well protected and too aggressive. If Dooku can do it then so can the suped-up Bane. Actually i think bane can fair up pretty well and give a hard fight to yoda but will ultimately lose.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Yoda hasn't done anything even close to that except struggle to pull a starfighter out of some mud
yoda was throwing around CIS ships during the clones wars

No-ones ever used some of those techniques around Yoda. We don't if he'll be able to block them.
To the TK comment I say that, safe in his orbalisks, Bane would just fold his arms over his head and wait for Yoda to get tired.
And when did Yoda lift up mountains ?



(shrug) well everyone else was saying it so I put it in. Sorry if its untrue.

Ships that were already flying!!! (probably)

he still threw them about like they were his plaything...he made them smack into eachother...rather funny to watch

still better than -

It does sound funny. lol
That still doesn't do anything about the orbalisk's.
They're Impregnable, remember.

You're still not taking in to consideration the fact that there isn't much that Yoda can do to him. All he can reach is his feet and hands (both really hard to hit). Eventually Bane would beat him, if only in stamina war.

For the record Bane never did pull a moon out of orbit. Wookieepedia needs to update that part.

In the rule of two book. Bane gets control of a drexl and puts a (at most a hundred km but can't remember the exact number mentioned) few times to males sure I didn't miss anything.

His orbalisks aren't impregnable and he didn't move the moon. So sorry Noobaris.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
No-ones ever used some of those techniques around Yoda. We don't if he'll be able to block them.
Prove to me an inferior opponent can harm somebody with higher defence
Originally posted by Darth Exodus

To the TK comment I say that, safe in his orbalisks, Bane would just fold his arms over his head and wait for Yoda to get tired.
Orbalisks don't protect you from the force.
Originally posted by Darth Exodus

And when did Yoda lift up mountains ? Clone wars

The only Force attack that a Lightsider can do is Force push or pull. Orbalisks protect you from broken bones etc. Banes laughing



Different Force attacks have different properties. Force lightning is a highly different style of attack than Force drain or Force Terror. If Yoda has never encountered it then it stands to reason that he may be unable to block it effectively.



Theres nothing Yoda can do to penatrate them (lightning or super, super strength).
And who the Heck is Noobaris.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
The only Force attack that a Lightsider can do is Force push or pull. Orbalisks protect you from broken bones etc. Banes laughing



Different Force attacks have different properties. Force lightning is a highly different style of attack than Force drain or Force Terror. If Yoda has never encountered it then it stands to reason that he may be unable to block it effectively.



Theres nothing Yoda can do to penatrate them (lightning or super, super strength).
And who the Heck is Noobaris.

You might actually be dumber than Noobaris, or you're just Noobaris pretending to be dumber than you really are.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
For the record Bane never did pull a moon out of orbit. Wookieepedia needs to update that part.

In the rule of two book. Bane gets control of a drexl and puts a (at most a hundred km but can't remember the exact number mentioned) few times to males sure I didn't miss anything.

^Wow was tired when I wrote this. What I meant to say was that in the Rule of two book. Bane uses the force to warp the mind of drexl (which is sort of like pterodactyl). Then he flies into space by putting a barrier around him and the drexl so they can breath. The distance between the the moon and planet is only a few hundred kilometers.

So again for that.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
The only Force attack that a Lightsider can do is Force push or pull.



Just to clarify, mace windu is a lightsider who used force crush.

And Luke is a lightsider and did force choke in return of the jedi. Ploo Koon and Luke as well did electric judgment/force lightning. As man of christ said mace has done force crush. Anakin has done some type of force scream in the clone wars. And this is just off hand.

to add to that nomi sunrider as a lightider did force sever

If so then that might be because noobaris is probably about 30 yrs old whilst I'm only 16.
Also I'm not noobaris and this is the last time I'm going to say it. Just wait untill noobaris joins in and proves that I'm not him/her.



Duely noted. However, Bane is Strong enough to block all of those.

Face facts. All you guys have is that Yoda's arrogant, that he drew with Dooku and that he lost to Sidious.
Whereas I've got numerous refences to Bane's mastery of the Force (Thought Bomb, Force lightning storm, killing Qordis easily, beating Kaan's force manipulations, smashing the Rakatan temple), His orbalisk-hightened strength, speed and force powers, his blade skills, his height, , and his lightsaber proof/resistant orbalisks.

Come on!! Theres three of you, you all have more experience than me and you have alot of source material. I have next to none, I'm a teenager and I'm alone.

Please up your game and stop insulting me. It's pointless, pathetic and it just makes me pity you. I still quite like you guys ( except for Darth Sexy) and am trying to remain civil.

See you tomorrow

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
If so then that might be because noobaris is probably about 30 yrs old whilst I'm only 16.
Also I'm not noobaris and this is the last time I'm going to say it. Just wait untill noobaris joins in and proves that I'm not him/her.
Then stop sharing the same retarded intellect and you won't be mistaken for him.




No, this is your unsupported opinion.


Except Yoda didn't lose to Sidious. At worse it was a tie (as stated by Lucas), and at best, Yoda had the upper hand. We can use the A>B>C argument here so if Yoda=Sidious, and Sidious>Bane, then Yoda>Bane. Bane's mastery of the force? His thought bomb required other force users. His lightning storm was created by Revan. His force wave has been duplicated many times. His blade skills while amazing, aren't the best.


And you're getting trounced in this argument.



Nobody cares. Don't pity us because after all, it's you providing the shitty arguments. If you want to "voice your opinion", go to a n00b forum where they care about that.

and btw I'm a junior in highschool

He's not strong enough to stop himself from cooking in lightning, though. something Yoda can hurl right back at him.

How about Yoda's mastery of the Force, then?

The former is worthless in a fight, the latter Yoda can block and reflect, Qordis was nothing to Yoda, neither was Kaan, Yoda can also raise or bring down temples.
That puts Bane well on the level

and the orbalisks have gaps. Too big for most lightsabers to really get in, but Yoda's lightsaber is smaller than most. Oh, yes, and let's not forget that using force lightning is an error for Bane that'll remove the orbalisk advantage, and that his head has no defense.
Yoda has his speed, his own force enhanced strength, skill and, let's not forget Yoda knows how to fight huge opponents. Does Bane know how to fight small ones?

If Sisious can do it then Bane can do it.



Please elaborate.



I'm not sure that the first point is true. Mabye though. I also think that Bane would be able to block his own lightning (trained by Sith, Dooku did it) and Yoda wouldn't be able to reach his Knees let alone his head.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
If Sisious can do it then Bane can do it.
One of the dumbest things I've ever heard. You seriously belong one one of those star wars fan sites where everyone tells you what they "think". Unfortunately for you, this isn't one of those sites.




How is Bane going to block his lightning? He wasn't able to in Rule of Two, what makes you think he can? And even if he can, waht difference does that make?

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
If Sisious can do it then Bane can do it.

That's not a response. It's an assertion that needs proof. Palpatine is also noticeably smaller than Bane and had years to prepare himself for a confrontation such as that.
Bane has never seen someone of Yoda's size fight. Ergo, why should we believe he'd be prepared for a fight where his size is such a disadvantage?


What was unclear?



It doesn't matter. Yoda can raise his hands to redirect it how he wants, and Bane was not able to block his own inside the force bubble, why should we believe he'd be able to block it from Yoda there who could create a bubble or reflect it?

And it doesn't matter where it touches him. A single orbalisk being killed is enough to end the find given that it releases that poison and all.

and again: the gaps are too big for MOST sabers. Yoda is smaller than 'most'

What terrible logic. How was Bane going to block it if he's already using lightning thus using one of his hands and holding a lightsaber.
And he was taken by surprise. And the bubble was only about 2 metres big meaning that it rebounded too fast to block.



Bane's a smart guy. I'm sure he'd adapt. And his height is as much an advantage as a disadvantage. Yoda can't reach anything vital.



Everyone speaks of Yoda's Force Mastery but it is rarely seen. Give me some examples.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
What terrible logic. How was Bane going to block it if he's already using lightning thus using one of his hands and holding a lightsaber.
And he was taken by surprise. And the bubble was only about 2 metres big meaning that it rebounded too fast to block.
He was holding a lightsaber.

You answered your own question.



This is not a rebuttal. You give me proof, or examples. You don't say 'oh, I'm sure he'd...' I don't care what you're sure of. I want evidence and not your speculation.

And Yoda is fully capable of reaching Bane's head. It's called 'jumping'...or 'tripping your opponent.



Blocking force lightning with his bare hands.
A feat stated to be next to impossible for all but the most powerful Jedi. And lifting a large temple with the Force with no visible effort. .

Originally posted by Lightsnake




Blocking force lightning with his bare hands.
A feat stated to be next to impossible for all but the most powerful Jedi. And lifting a large temple with the Force with no visible effort. . I have a question lightsnake, that technique yoda used to deflect lightning, is it the same as the one vader used to deflect bolts and turn it into raw energy?

There's a bit of a dispute amongst sources; some say that Vader used the Force to deflect the lasers, and others say that his gauntlets (which, I believe, belonged to Kaan) deflected them.

I think the actual power is different...force lightning energy is a far cry from that of a blaster bolt, after all

I recall shadows of the empire novel stating that he could use the force to deflect blaster bolts, i seriously doubt it's beyond his ability to do so but weather it is the same technique as yoda used to block lightning can be debated.

Nice. But it was a rhetorical question Lightsnake.



Gauntlets? Vader has Cyborg hands not gauntlets. Plus Jacen did it in Betrayal so it is a Force technique.



If Dooku ( a lesser) can handle it then so can Bane. Bane has beaten superior opponants (Kas'im) and was the best dualist in his academy. Plus these attacks wouldn't be as powerful as normal attacks as they rely solely on momentum.



Prove it, quote it and elaborate in the words of Sylar.

Star Wars cartoons Noobaris.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Nice. But it was a rhetorical question Lightsnake.

Foolishness gets you nowhere



False analogy. Sorry, but Bane didn't beat Kas'im in sheer bladework.
And Bane is taller than Dooku. Who had long experience of training with and against Yoda.
Plus Dooku's a fencer style fighter so he doesn't focus on momentum.


Visual evidence, boyo? Watched Clone Wars lately?

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Gauntlets? Vader has Cyborg hands not gauntlets.
i thought vader had one cyborg arm from the shoulder down, and another cybrog arm from the elbow down

i love that bit

sorry wasn't clear on this but I was talking about Yoda. Meaning that his attacks wouldn't be strong enough to break Banes orbalisks.

No

Did you just actually agree with me!!?

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Bane has other attacks than just lightning. Revan knew lots, including:
force choke, force drain, life drain, force terror etc and she would have taught these to Bane.
Bane also has force disintegrate (as shown by Zannah) and force blast (took out a whole temple). He also pulled a whole Moon out of orbit. Yoda hasn't done anything even close to that except struggle to pull a starfighter out of some mud.
Also, I agree that Bane would have trouble with Yoda because of his unfamiliar style, but I sill think that Bane's too well protected and too aggressive. If Dooku can do it then so can the suped-up Bane.
That and pull a droid carrier out of the sky and force two to collide.
And yes SW:Clone Wars is canon as stated in the ROTS commentary. Oh and Yoda pulled the Starfighter out with one hand so I don't see how he "struggled" plus Yoda wasn't even in his prime here
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
What terrible logic. How was Bane going to block it if he's already using lightning thus using one of his hands and holding a lightsaber.
And he was taken by surprise. And the bubble was only about 2 metres big meaning that it rebounded too fast to block.



Bane's a smart guy. I'm sure he'd adapt. And his height is as much an advantage as a disadvantage. Yoda can't reach anything vital.



Everyone speaks of Yoda's Force Mastery but it is rarely seen. Give me some examples.

Well lets see he ripped CIS cargo ships from the sky and made them his biatches. He was the Grand Master of the Order. He made Count Dooku run with his tail between his legs, and he redirected the arguably most powerful Sith Lord in existance's Force Lightning with his bare hands. Oh and you say Yoda can't reach anything vital then how did he decapitate two clone troops at once in a single swing. Come on now "size matters not." Yoda=Sids>>Bane.

It only rose by about a metre and it took ages. Bane could of chucked it over his shoulder like a poodle.




If this was in space then I refuse to be impressed. Its not hard to propel something without any drag. All it would take would be one small push. In space things are weightless



Arguably being the key word.


I meant easily. And neither of those two were saber prodigy's.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
It only rose by about a metre and it took ages. Bane could of chucked it over his shoulder like a poodle. we all know thats a weak yoda

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
If this was in space then I refuse to be impressed. Its not hard to propel something without any drag. All it would take would be one small push. In space things are weightless
they were in the atmostphere of coruscant

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Arguably being the key word. yea, if by arguably you mean officially

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
I meant easily. And neither of those two were saber prodigy's. it doesnt take him any effort to jump, so yea, its easy for him..

Is there another one?



Very well, then all I can say is that Yoda himself said that "Size matters not to the Force".



Please don't steer the arguement down that road.



Its pretty obvious that it would be much harder to fight someone in the air, when you can't change direction or stop. Also, since Yoda has to jump to even hurt Bane then he would not be able to swing very hard as his strikes would rely on pure momentum.

If no ones gonna reply then I guess I win.

Nobody replied because you've been pwned.

...and for the fact you have shown yourself to have no logic at all.

HA HA . You're all so damn funny I can hardly breath.

I still win though.

Bane cream's Yoda.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
HA HA . You're all so damn funny I can hardly breath.

I still win though.

Bane cream's Yoda.

Denial is a ***** when you've been WTFPwned this many times Noobaris.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Is there another one? obviously

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Very well, then all I can say is that Yoda himself said that "Size matters not to the Force". thats because he's so old and he is so attuned to the force..it is clear that other force users have had have trouble moving large objects..

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Please don't steer the arguement down that road
i dont see why i shouldn't

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Its pretty obvious that it would be much harder to fight someone in the air, when you can't change direction or stop. Also, since Yoda has to jump to even hurt Bane then he would not be able to swing very hard as his strikes would rely on pure momentum. good point....except for the fact that yoda, even in midair, is able to block and even push back people stronger than himself without breaking a sweat...dooku was at peek physical strength and yoda was pushing him back..iow he uses to force to argument his own strength..also, yoda could easily change direction in midair..i mean, if he can throw CIS transporters like toys then he could push himself through the air..also, at one point in the dooku vs yoda fight, yoda did change direction in midair, so your arguement fails..

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Is there another one?

Oh well. Yoda is just the most powerful Jedi that existed up to that point in history. You'd like to call that weak? Some easy math for you: Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in Bane's order (which means Sidious > Bane). Yet even Sidious was clearly not able to beat Yoda (saber wise and force wise) despite of the fact that he fought him out of superior positions two times. How the hell do you think that Bane can do the job? Because he's less powerful than Sidious who wasn't able to do it? Convincing line of thought there. Logic surrenders.



That negates the fact that Yoda moved really huge objects with telekinesis how exactly? Oh right. It doesn't. Another lesson for you, this time physics: If I can "produce" enough energy to lift an entire temple up or push several million tons of metal away - what will happen if I use the very same power (kinetic energy) on a human being?

Yoda reached a stalemate with a guy more powerful than Bane. He made one of the most powerful force users and best duellist the Jedi Order has ever produced run twice (Dooku) and obviously scared him to such a degree, that Dooku develops thoughts about Yoda going Dark Side and wiping the floor with Sidious ass with the power of the Dark Side, just to develop into a thread to every single living being in the Galaxy.

Bane did what? Own a bunch of people that are children and weaklings in comparison to the little Jedi? Congratulations. That qualifies him as potential "Yoda-Killer" how exactly? Not? Yoda will own him in terms of a force fight.



Wow!
Wait a second. Does the term "the force" ring a bell? Yoda, after all, still is a Jedi. He is very well able to change the direction of his movements mid-air or to simply "stop" them if he likes. Mace Windu in "Shatterpoints" even calls that a "basic" ability (when altering the direction of a force push Kar Vastor is using against him). So much for that nonsense.

And another lesson in SW reality regarding Yoda's strength. If you watch the duel between him and Dooku in AotC you will realize that Dooku is using both hands to parry some of Yodas blows. The same Dooku that effortlessly parries a combined strike of Anakin and Obi-Wan one-handed (as he does with Anakin's furious attacks just before he loses in RotS). So obviously Yoda is quite able to hammer some nice strikes on an opponents lightsaber if needed.

Last lesson - this time "logic". Dude. A lightsaber cuts through virtually everything, even if casually moved. So how the hell does the "strength" behind the strikes matter with the exception of the fact that a harder strike might be harder to parry? Right: It doesn't. And if you talk about the difficulties that Yoda might have fighting Bane - vice versa? Yoda is fast enough to avoid the strikes of three master swordsman (among them Depa Billaba) without even holding a weapon in his hand (Darth Maul - Shadow Hunter). He's capable of running circles around Sidious who is fast and precise enough with a lightsaber to have his blade run so close and fast around Maul's body that a constant blur was seen and a muscle twitch of Maul would have resulted in losing a limp.

YAY. Bane would absolutely defeat Yoda in a lightsaber fight - if we ignore the fact that he's most likely not able to hit Yoda, that the Jedi Master has a 800 year training advantage over Bane with the lightsaber and the stuff that Yoda has shown us in terms of lightsaber combat. So if we completely ignore any information we have, we might reach your conclusion. In "reality"? Yoda destroys Bane. End of story.

not to mention yoda mastered every saber form (perfecting ataru)

Originally posted by Borbarad
Some easy math for you: Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in Bane's order (which means Sidious > Bane).

If you're referring to what's said in the Dark Side Sourcebook (which is the only source that might appear to directly state as much), here's the exact passage:

When the Sith finally emerged from a thousand years of watching and waiting, they numbered in accordance with the tradition set down by Darth Bane, only two. The most powerful of these was Darth Sidious, an ice-cold, diabolically calculating genius equipped with the strengths of the dark side of the Force, as well as an enormous wealth of Sith artifacts, equipment, and knowledge. Perhaps the best weapon in his arsenal was his keen understanding of galactic politics, and his seemingly unlimited ability to engineer situations that ultimately served to further empower the sith.'

As can be seen, whether Palpatine is being stated to be the most powerful of the entire Sith Order that had been "watching and waiting ," or the two then current Sith that had "finally emerged" is extremely vague. Not to mention, given the context, where Palpatine's intelligence, understanding of politics, and ability to manipulate situations to his advantage are all elaborated on directly after Palpatine is described as "The most powerful," the exact meaning of "powerful" in this case is up for interpretation. Either way, it's your burden of proof, so either prove that the quote perfectly fits your interpretation, or drop the point.



Please. When you have fighters as different as Bane (hint: his orbalisk armour, and the way he fights with it) and Sidious do, ABC arguments involving the two are never going to be valid, plus there's also the fact that your assertion that Sidious > Bane is thus far completely unsupported (see above).

As far as power showings are concerned, Bane's shown to be able to absorb force lightning being generated by a number of Sith Lords, that eventually reached such a level where it was stated that the power would have been able to destroy the entire planet of Ruusan. He's then able to contain all of the energy without getting torn apart by it, and proceeds to direct it across the entire planet. That alone is a display of power and mastery beyond anything Sidious ever does. He's logically more powerful than DE Sidious, let alone the much weaker PT incarnation.



If you're trying to insinuate that Yoda would be able to use telekinesis against Bane like he would any other regular human (and tell me if you are), I'll only be too happy to directly quote one of your essays on how force users are able to resist the force attacks of others.



As can be seen, unproven.



If you're referring to what's said in the Revenge of the Sith novelisation (which is the only source that might appear to directly state as much), here's the exact passage:

This is Dooku, Darth Tyranus, Count of Serenno:

Once a great Jedi Master, now an even greater Lord of the Sith, Dooku is a dark colossus bestriding the galaxy. Nemesis of the corrupt Republic, oriflamme of the principled Confederacy of Independent Systems, he is the very personification of shock and awe.

He was one of the most respected and powerful Jedi in the Order's twenty-five-thousand-year history, yet at the age of seventy Dooku's principles would no longer allow him to serve a Republic in which political power was for sale to the highest bidder. He'd said farewell to his former Padawan, Qui-Gon Jinn, now a legendary Master in his own right; he'd said farewell to his close friends on the Jedi Council, Mace Windu and the ancient Master Yoda; he'd said farewell to the Jedi Order itself.

He is numbered among the Lost: the Jedi who renounced their fealty to the Order and resigned their commissions of Jedi Knighthood in service of ideals higher than even the Order itself professed. The Lost Twenty, as they have been known since Dooku joined their number, are remembered with both honor and regret among the Jedi; their images, sculpted from bronzium, stand enshrined in the Temple archives.

These bronzium images serve as melancholy reminders that some Jedi have needs the Order cannot satisfy.

Dooku had retired to his family estate, the planetary system of Serenno. Assuming his hereditary title as its Count made him one of the wealthiest beings in the galaxy. Amid the unabashed corruption endemic to the Republic, his immense wealth could have bought the allegiance of any given number of Senators; he could, perhaps, have bought control of the Republic itself.

But a man of such heritage, such principle, could never stoop to be lord of a garbage heap, chief of a horde of scavengers squabbling over scraps; the Republic, to him, was nothing more than this.

Instead, he used all the great power of his family fortune-and the vastly greater power of his unquestioned integrity-to begin the cleansing of the galaxy from the fester of this so-called democracy.

He is the icon of the Separatist movement, its public face. He is to the Confederacy of Independent Systems what Palpatine is to the Republic: the living symbol of the justice of its cause.

This is the public story.

This is the story that even Dooku, in his weaker moments, almost believes.

The truth is more complicated.

Dooku is ... different.

So as can be seen, the entire passage (beginning with "This is Dooku" and ending with "This is the public story" obviously given the repetition) is quite clearly - rather than something factually stated directly from the omniscient narrator - what the Public of the time believed the story to be.

To quote you: "Since when do character thoughts mean anything?"



Lol, Nai. More like, happens to come to such a belief after seeing, what's hinted at possibly being, a force induced vision, the accuracy of which is never elaborated on. Point being, Dooku didn't form such a conclusion based on how Yoda was able to fight against him, which is quite clearly how you were trying to make it out to be.



Right, because Kas'im (who the much weaker Bane that had yet to obtain the orbalisk armour was able to overwhelm on equal footing), stated to have mastered and spent years perfecting every single form of the lightsaber, and to possibly be the greatest swordsman there had ever been up until that time, who was strong enough in the force to defend himself against an attack that was powerful enough to "shatter every bone in body and pulverize his flesh into a mass of pulpy liquid," and who wielded one saber as if he had five of them, is an absolute child compared to Yoda. I mean, Yoda was only the guy who sat on his ass all day and was so out of practise with the ligthsaber that Jedi around the temple hadn't ever seen him with one (Source: Power of the Jedi Sourcebook, Yoda's section), and struggled with preventing the fall of a pillar with telekinesis. Man, that guy sure is one God when up against Kas'im. You're absolutely correct Nai.



Despite not ever matching him in terms of force displays (refer to what Yoda does during the BoD's force storm ritual)?

In a demonstration shown to padawans, rather than a real life battle scenario, absolutely. The point was to show the padawans that force mastery would be a far greater strength than sheer battle adeptness. Prove that the Jedi would have had a problem with planning the demonstration beforehand with the aim to exaggerate the strengths behind sheer force mastery, or drop the point.

Also, those last two points? Irrelevant. Them being master swordsman (I'd like some poof, by the way) does not add to the difficulty of dodging their attacks, where on their part, speed would be the only factor, and neither would Depa's adeptness with Vaapad.



Irrelevant. Holding a weapon in his hand wouldn't make it any easier for him to dodge their attacks.



Wonderful. Bane was capable of moving at speeds where his lightsaber was described as appearing to be (to the eyes of force users) everywhere at once, where he appeared to be wielding twelve saber at once (to the eyes of the ridiculously powerful Zannah), and so fast that time appeared to stop for all the powerful force user around him (which included Kas'im), where he was able to move so much greater than what they could see.



Laughable, given Bane's superior displays in speed, and with the force.



Sure, let's just pretend that sheer age for a Jedi Master absolutely correlates with their experience with a lightsaber, and ignore the fact that Yoda was mostly out of practise by the time period we're dealing with.



Which pails is comparison to the way in which Bane overwhelms Kas'im, who is logically easily above Yoda.



Right, absolutely Nai. Except for the fact that PoD Bane would likely easily defeat Yoda given the way he dominates against Yoda's logical superior, Kas'im. Factor in the obvious improvements in force and lightsaber refinement that Bane went through ten years after PoD, as well as the benefits of the orbalisk armour (near perfect protection, and enhancements to Bane's physical attributes, force strength, energy levels, and senses) as well as the fact that Bane's natural style would be unfamiliar to Yoda (the way Bane grips his saber hilt and angles his blade gives him a unique style that would be unfamiliar to everyone except Kas'im) as would be the way he fights with his orbalisk armour, where he can use parts of his body to defend himself against Yoda's attacks, can take a near fully offensive stance in battle, and can integrate melee attacks into his style like no other, and Ro2 Bane would logically be able to decimate Yoda. Nice not-knowing what you're talking about, though. Truly.

Originally posted by MadMel
not to mention yoda mastered every saber form (perfecting ataru)

Not ever shown or stated in canon.

before i get back to debating, i want you to answer me these..
do you enjoy getting constantly owned??
do you get some twisted thrill in getting banned over and over??
why do you come back, when it is clear nobody wants you here??

Even if he is, Power is not absolute. As seen in:
Anakin v Obi won
Yoda v Dooku
Mace v Grievous
Kun v Qel-Droma
etc....

edit

Originally posted by MadMel
before i get back to debating, i want you to answer me these..
do you enjoy getting constantly owned??
do you get some twisted thrill in getting banned over and over??
why do you come back, when it is clear nobody wants you here??

Translation: Before I get back to debating inserting absolutely imaginary pieces of information and adding lame smilies at the end of my posts that make me look like a woman, I will proceed to commit a Fallacy of many questions like a moron.

Now here's a question for you MadMel: why, in your opinion, do you think that nobody of importance here even acknowledges your existence, whereas the widely considered two best debaters here, Gideon and Advent, have both recognised me as a logical debater? Tell me Melanie, why exactly is that?

Just to correct a few points from my reply to Nai:



^ The above was supposed to come out as:

Please. When you have fighters as different as Bane (hint: his orbalisk armour, and the way he fights with it) and Sidious are, ABC arguments involving the two are never going to be valid, plus there's also the fact that your assertion that Sidious > Bane is thus far completely unsupported (see above).



^ The above was supposed to come out as:

Despite not ever matching him in terms of force displays (refer to what Bane does during the BoD's force storm ritual)?



^ The above was supposed to come out as:

In a demonstration shown to padawans, rather than a real life battle scenario, absolutely. The point was to show the padawans that force mastery would be a far greater strength than sheer battle adeptness. Prove that the Jedi would have had a problem with planning the demonstration beforehand with the aim to exaggerate the strengths behind sheer force mastery, to further drive the point through to the padawans, or drop the point.



On that note, I feel like I am becoming more like Advent every day.

Originally posted by MutantMessiah
Just to correct a few points from my reply to Nai:



^ The above was supposed to come out as:

Please. When you have fighters as different as Bane (hint: his orbalisk armour, and the way he fights with it) and Sidious are, ABC arguments involving the two are never going to be valid, plus there's also the fact that your assertion that Sidious > Bane is thus far completely unsupported (see above).



^ The above was supposed to come out as:

Despite not ever matching him in terms of force displays (refer to what Bane does during the BoD's force storm ritual)?



^ The above was supposed to come out as:

In a demonstration shown to padawans, rather than a real life battle scenario, absolutely. The point was to show the padawans that force mastery would be a far greater strength than sheer battle adeptness. Prove that the Jedi would have had a problem with planning the demonstration beforehand with the aim to exaggerate the strengths behind sheer force mastery, to further drive the point through to the padawans, or drop the point.



On that note, I feel like I am becoming more like Advent every day.

But you're not Noobaris. You've yet to win a debate and you're the worst debater on this forum. You've been banned more than 30 times and you just keep on embarassing yourself. All of your points have been defeated so we just laugh everytime you post.. Enjoy another ban.

Yeah........ what he said.

I think that I both like and dislike you at the same time Mutatmessiah ( or what ever) because you both back me up and totally outclass me at the same time.

Oh well, I'm young. I've got time.

And since when has Zannah been "ridiculuosly powerful"?

How many socks do you have Noobaris? ANd no, you've been wtfpwned again.

How many brain cells do you have Sexy? And no, You've been wtfpwned again.
I.
AM.
NOT.
NEBERIS.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
How many brain cells do you have Sexy? And no, You've been wtfpwned again.
I.
AM.
NOT.
NEBERIS.

Actually only Noobaris goes through a great deal of denial after getting pwned in an argument. You, like Noobaris (assuming you aren't him), have been pwned in every debate. Try again.

One hardly fits in to 'every debate'.

And I rest my case... Now...

http://www.nondot.org/~kungfoomaster/pictures/stfu_noob.jpg

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
But you're not Noobaris. You've yet to win a debate and you're the worst debater on this forum. You've been banned more than 30 times and you just keep on embarassing yourself. All of your points have been defeated so we just laugh everytime you post.. Enjoy another ban.

Sure thing Darth Repetitive.

http://guigo666.free.fr/comic/conneries/you're%20a%20homo.jpg

Originally posted by MutantMessiah
If you're referring to what's said in the Dark Side Sourcebook (which is the only source that might appear to directly state as much), here's the exact passage:

When the Sith finally emerged from a thousand years of watching and waiting, they numbered in accordance with the tradition set down by Darth Bane, only two. The most powerful of these was Darth Sidious, an ice-cold, diabolically calculating genius equipped with the strengths of the dark side of the Force, as well as an enormous wealth of Sith artifacts, equipment, and knowledge. Perhaps the best weapon in his arsenal was his keen understanding of galactic politics, and his seemingly unlimited ability to engineer situations that ultimately served to further empower the sith.'

As can be seen, whether Palpatine is being stated to be the most powerful of the entire Sith Order that had been "watching and waiting ," or the two then current Sith that had "finally emerged" is extremely vague. Not to mention, given the context, where Palpatine's intelligence, understanding of politics, and ability to manipulate situations to his advantage are all elaborated on directly after Palpatine is described as "The most powerful," the exact meaning of "powerful" in this case is up for interpretation. Either way, it's your burden of proof, so either prove that the quote perfectly fits your interpretation, or drop the point.

Please. When you have fighters as different as Bane (hint: his orbalisk armour, and the way he fights with it) and Sidious do, ABC arguments involving the two are never going to be valid, plus there's also the fact that your assertion that Sidious > Bane is thus far completely unsupported (see above).

Oh...
"The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day."

This actually shows a development in the Sith Order that started with Bane and culminated in the figure of Sidious. It's an ascension in terms of force knowledge and, with that, force power. An undenyable fact. Hell. We could even use a bit of common sense here. Sidious had access to everything that Bane gathered + the stuff discovered in a thousand years by the Sith and handed down from master to apprentice. Then you have his own studies in addition which included the study of rather "uncommon" force users. It's simply not questionable that Sidious has more knowledge up his sleeve than Bane could possibly have.

We could add Sidious' own display of force powers or battle prowess here. And then one might ask the question how Bane does even remotely compare to Sidious. What has Bane ever done except owning a few deluded Sith Lords who were too proud to accept the teachings of the Ancient Sith and as smart as a dead starfish? Sure. Bane was the most powerful figure in his own time but still far away from Sidious knowledge, combat prowess or the track record of the movies DLotS.



Woah. He didn't absorb force lightning. He did just channel the combined force energy of those Sith Lords. It's not as if he was attacked by them and simply stood there with a grin on his face, yelling "Yo,freaks. You can't mess with the best." It's basically the same that Dorskk-81 did with Luke's students to drive a fleet of enemy starships out of Yavin's solar system.



LMAO.
Excuse me, friend. You have, of course, read the DE comics and you are, of course, aware of the fact that Sidious alone produced more devastating effects with his force storms, right? That without needing another 20 Sith Lords to grant him their power to archieve something like that? The mere fact that it wasn't Bane alone turns your "logical" conclusion into a joke.



Nope. I was just describing power levels here. What did Bane do on his own with the force? Really. He managed to collapse the entrance of a temple (the chain reaction did destroy the rest of the building). Yoda lifted the remains of a mountain sized temple up and force pushed CIS landing vessels around. I'd say that Yoda is quite some levels above Bane when it comes to force mastery / knowledge. So is Sidious. And, if I may remind you, Yoda did quite well in force pushing the Darth Lord of the Sith straight across his office and have him fly over his desk in RotS. So apparently he's very well able to apply such power on force users.



Urm. No. I was referring to various statements about Dooku given by the omniscient narrator as well as other Jedi from the Order (including Mace, Yoda and Jocasta Nu). Dooku was one of the most powerful beings (force wise) that the Jedi Order has produced in the past centuries at last if not in it's entire history (both are quotes given about Dooku). His mastery of form II descriped as the "ultimate refinement of lightsaber to lightsaber combat" and the fact that only Mace and Yoda have ever bested him (before RotS that is) in duels speak quite a lot about his blade mastery.

Yet still Yoda bested him twice...in Dark Rendevouz he even does so on a place completely dominated by the Dark Side while levitating a person mid-air. Yoda is definetely superior to Dooku who happens to be one of the orders best students ever.



Logically spoken you don't even need Dooku's comment to reach such a conclusion. The point is that Yoda can defend himself against most Dark Side techniques, even against somebody more powerful than Dooku and this without using "agressive" force techniques himself. In the RotS movie you can even see how Yoda is about to defeat Sidious by just throwing the attacks of the Sith Lord back at him (this is before both are blown away by the force energies blowing up between them).




Wow. It's astonishing how you completely ignore Kas'ims own comments on how all that training is useless compared to a connection with the force that allows Bane to predict his movements and react to them properly, even without knowing the corresponding manouvers.

Yoda had 900 years (or let's say 850) to perfect the art of lightsaber combat - quite a bit more than Kas'im had and he was perfectly able to defend himself against force attack that instantly killed other force users (Sidious lightning). And wow...force attacks able to destroy bones. Watch the Clone War cartoons. You can see minor Jedi leaving dents in ferrocrete walls with their force push attacks, Dooku crushes solid metal constructions twices (AotC, RotS) and you think that Bane's little attack (damaging a 30,000 year old stone temple) was anything special - or the ability of Kas'im to defend himself against that? Rather funny.

Lmao. He obviously was so out of practice with a lightsaber that he did defeat Dooku in a sparring match before TPM. Urm. He was so out of practice with a lightsaber, that it was him who gave the Padawans the basic instructions in AotC, right? He was so out of practice with a lightsaber, that he defeated Dooku - who was notorious with keeping his skills up in that department and who can be seen practicing and fighting against several opponents over the PT period and who kept handing Anakin and Obi-Wan (who practiced thousands of hours against each other) their asses - twice. Yes. Sounds like the guy is completely out of practice. Silly me.

And god did he struggle with that pillar. Oh wait. Because he makes some grimasses? One could, of course, assume that he did need a little bit of skill to move across the battlefield first (notice how he arrives in the hangar far before the Clone Troopers), then fight one of the best duellist the order has ever produced. Apparently he doesn't have problems with far greater force use displayed during various sources in the PT. So let's just go by this one freaking instance and by your personal interpretation of the scene - because I don't remember somebody (or a source) saying that Yoda did struggle with the weight of that pillar. Despite the fact that he rather easily moved greater and heavier objects around.



I think you mean "what Bane does" and he does exactly the same that Dorskk-81 does when the Jedi are channeling their power. Do you think that a fairly untrained person that did study under Luke for a few months is capable of taking it up with Yoda? Because that's essentially what you're saying here.

Originally posted by MutantMessiah
In a demonstration shown to padawans, rather than a real life battle scenario, absolutely. The point was to show the padawans that force mastery would be a far greater strength than sheer battle adeptness. Prove that the Jedi would have had a problem with planning the demonstration beforehand with the aim to exaggerate the strengths behind sheer force mastery, or drop the point.


Did you watch the movies, pal? Watch Yoda fighting. In the overwhelming majority of situations he's not even in the need to parry the swings of his opponents because they are in most cases not even close to hit him. Why? Because Yoda does exactly the same he does in that demonstration - avoiding opponents through his force mastery.

But we could push this even further. Watch the scene where Obi-Wan and Yoda fight their way to the Jedi Temple in RotS. Yoda deflects more than 40 blaster bolts in less than 4 seconds, aimed at him from 7 different ankles and even finds the time to redirect one of these shots so precisely that it kills one of the Clone Troopers. And you want to tell me that Bane is going to hit him somehow? Nice idea.



You like to have proof that Depa Billaba is a master swordsman...?
Just to paint a nice image of the situation: You have Yoda standing there...you have three people attacking him with "all they have" and he simply avoids them while "it seemed as if he hardly moved a metre". Of course this might be a nice choreographed scene to explain something to the Padawans. Yet...does that sound like something Yoda would come up with if you consider the methods he trained Luke Skywalker with? Hardly.



What powerful force users are you talking about? I'm still looking for some proof that one single member of the BoD (with Bane being the only exception here) was "powerful". In their time? Maybe. In the greater scheme of things? Hardly. You're glorious attempts to say "they are powerful" based on nothing doesn't change that.

And what? Mace Windu was so fast that his movements where "invisible" to a ridiculous powerful force user like Kar Vastor. In fact Mace was capable to hit Vastor six times before the guy could even blink. And guess what? Yoda is faster. Or to use Lucas own words:
"Words are insufficient to describe the range and skill of Yoda's speed and swordplay. His lightsaber his a humming blur of light." (AotC script) There are words to descripe Bane's skill, huh?



Which did both just happen in your Bane Fanboy Fantasy so I guess that doesn't count as "argument".



Let's ignore the "fact" that Yoda in the time we're dealing with (RotS) has just spend three years leading missions in the Clone Wars which translates into "fighting". Right before TPM we had the Ynchorrie uprising, in which Yoda did also participate in. Before that they had the Mandalorian Civil War as well as the Stark Hyperspace war. That aside from countless missions our green friend might have been in. Yet, somehow, he's "out of practice" because the regular students in the Jedi Temple haven't seen him using a lightsaber for a long time? Despite the fact that the on panel evidence given in various sources show us something completely different? Nice talk, dude. Go and do your homework before you start typing.



Wow. Let's not forget that Bane hardly managed to escape from the temple when Kas'im used a style that he hadn't seen before. Basically Kas'im kicks him across the place and just gets owned because Bane - in a desperate move - does collapse the temple partitially.

And how would Kas'im be "easily above Yoda"? Because he spend some decades studying the art of lightsaber combat? Dooku did the same for an even longer time period. His comments in the RotS novel show, how good he knows the different lightsaber forms and their respective weak points. We all saw how "superior" he is to the little Jedi Master when it comes to lightsaber combat, didn't we? Mace Windu is another example for a multiple-form expert and he's also not capable of defeating Yoda. The same could be said about Sidious. Apparently it doesn't matter much how many forms you know.



Urm? Did you read the same book that I have had before my eyes? It's Kas'im that totally dominates the fight and is about to kill Bane before your famed hero uses his superior force potential to collapse a part of the temple. That aside from Kas'im being Yoda's superior is absolute nonsense.



Sure thing, thou great enlightened person.

You are talking about the famed curved hilt design that Bane is using? Wait...can it be that this is the very same design that Dooku prefers? Yoda's former Padawan? The guy he defeated twice? Uhhh...so much for that "advantage".

The orbalisks? You mean the same creatures that started poisoning and weaken him if they were hurt (e.g. by throwing Bane's own lightning back into his face - Yoda's speciality)? Of course we can also ignore the little point saying that the joint places of the orbalisk are vunerable - especially for Yoda who uses a smaller scale lightsaber.

This while Bane has to fight against a very tiny opponent that uses a lightsaber style which focuses on mad muppet aireal accrobatics.

Pwned again Noobaris. This is a daily routine for you.

Originally posted by MutantMessiah
Translation: Before I get back to debating inserting absolutely imaginary pieces of information and adding lame smilies at the end of my posts that make me look like a woman insults? thats the best you can come up with? i was kinda expecting an answer..
Originally posted by MutantMessiah
I will proceed to commit a Fallacy of many questions like a moron. it appears all you can do is insult people..i guess 30+ bans hasnt improved your manners

Originally posted by MutantMessiah
Now here's a question for you MadMel: why, in your opinion, do you think that nobody of importance here even acknowledges your existence, whereas the widely considered two best debaters here, Gideon and Advent, have both recognised me as a logical debater? Tell me Melanie, why exactly is that?
1. its not melanie..dont try to guess peoples real names by their screenames..
2. there is a difference between being new to the SW vs. section than being ignored..prove that i am not acknowledged here
3. i know advent said that, but im not so sure about gideon, i thought he just said you arent stupid..
you have still failed to answer my questions...all you managed to accomplish was insult me

What a depressing waste of words.



Can I ask you a serious question? Do you actually think that you contribute to these discussion's at all?
Because at the moment your rating even lower in my eyes than MadMel(no offence to him) and you have been here for about 3 years longer than him. If this is the best that you can do then I really surgest that you just give up and quit.

Noobaris, I've defeated your every argument since youve been here. I don't need to contribute any more because you rehash the same defeated bullshit. You're a broken record. Enjoy the ban..

The Sad thing is that I'm not actually Neberis. You're just really over the top paranoid.
You are American so I guess its not your fault though....

Are you still typing? Haven't you embarassed yourself enough?

Not yet....

Originally posted by MadMel
insults? thats the best you can come up with? i was kinda expecting an answer..
it appears all you can do is insult people..i guess 30+ bans hasnt improved your manners

There's no need to get upset Melanie..if I recall correctly you were one of those nobodies who started bitching about me before I'd even ever spoken to you..and you were the first to turn to insults in this thread.. difference being that I laugh at you when you hand them out..and you burst into tears when you get them handed to you



Melanie..nobody here even knows who you are..Gideon's exact words were "very intelligent"..and Advent's the widely considred best debater here



I already explained why..I don't respond to Fallacies of many questions

Originally posted by MutantMessiah
There's no need to get upset Melanie..if I recall correctly you were one of those nobodies who started bitching about me before I'd even ever spoken to you..and you were the first to turn to insults in this thread.. difference being that I laugh at you when you hand them out..and you burst into tears when you get them handed to you



Melanie..nobody here even knows who you are..Gideon's exact words were "very intelligent"..and Advent's the widely considred best debater here



I already explained why..I don't respond to Fallacies of many questions

You don't respond to fallacies yet you have yet to come up with a cogent argument throughout your 30+ bans... Interesting..

Originally posted by Borbarad
Oh...
"The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day."

This actually shows a development in the Sith Order that started with Bane and culminated in the figure of Sidious. It's an ascension in terms of force knowledge and, with that, force power. An undenyable fact. Hell. We could even use a bit of common sense here. Sidious had access to everything that Bane gathered + the stuff discovered in a thousand years by the Sith and handed down from master to apprentice. Then you have his own studies in addition which included the study of rather "uncommon" force users. It's simply not questionable that Sidious has more knowledge up his sleeve than Bane could possibly have.

Sure it's not, I would never deny that, however substantiate Sidious' superior knowledge in terms of what effect it would have on his power level. As Illustrious mentioned, when a force user gains a certain extreme level of force knowledge, there would logically be diminishing returns with its effect on a force user's strength. You also make force knowledge out to be directly proportional with power, which is not only begging for proof, but really quite ridiculous when you put things into perspective, as it has no effect on a force user's strength, or control, but rather the ways in which they can unleash their power.

If anything, when a force user with a relative low level of force knowledge amasses a large knowledge base, they are occasionally shown to develop a much higher level of power, but again, you've yet to prove what effect it would have when a being already has access to a large base of knowledge.


...and of course, none of what you just said changes the fact that there is no undeniable proof that Sidious > Bane (which is what your original ABC argument was relying on).



We could, but not only have you not really elaborated on that, there's absolutely nothing that compares to what I've already posted for Bane.



Bane actually only ever really owns one Sith Lord, Quordis (who pre-retcon was actually extremely powerful, but that's irrelevant anyway), for the record, but even then, how exactly does the fact that they were too proud to accept the Ancient's teachings, or the fact that they were "as smart as a dead starfish" detract from their level of power? The NSO was the most militaristic order of Force Users there's ever shown to be, and originally numbering in the thousands, were eventually molded into a much smaller force due to the near constant war that the era provided. The smaller BoD would have logically had a relative high concentration of power based on that alone (given how war sorts out the weak from the strong), so I fail to see how they're somehow weak like the majority of users here like to believe. The fact that it only took Bane and twenty five Sith Lords alone to generate a planet destroying level of energy makes it quite clear that as a collective group, they were extremely powerful.

I'd also like to remind you that the Sith Lord ownage on his part was never part of my argument. That alone doesn't make him more powerful than Sidious. What does is his performance during the BoD's force storm ritual.



Let's not hold back now. His power was stated to be far greater than the entire combined power of the BoD. So he wasn't just the most powerful figure in his time, he was so far beyond anyone in his era that it's not even funny.



Which means what?



You keep on saying this, but have yet to support it in any way. Try doing that.



LOL. The Movie DLOTS were beyond pathetic in power when compared to the likes of Darth Caedus, Bane, Exar Kun, Freedon Nadd, and the top dogs of the Ancient Sith. They haven't performed anything even close to what the above mentioned have, and have shown visible limitations. You really need to stop overrating the low level Count Dooku level combatants of the SW Mythos.



Yes, he did absorb lightning, as shown in the JvS comics (I would scan the page or give you a link to it if I had access to the comic), and briefly referred to in PoD.

"Bane stood at the eye of the storm, drawing the bolts of lightning into himself, feeding on them." - PoD, PG 284-285.

As I explained to Lightsnake, the fact that the Sith Lords willingly gave him their power doesn't change the facts that:

a) the lethal nature of the lightning would have remained the same.

b) that Bane had to absorb the lightning.

Bane was simply powerful enough to do that, which is what makes his performance as the vessel of the ritual so impressive.



No it's not, as the way Bane was forced to receive the power is testament to a high level of strength, which cannot be said for what Dorskk-81 did.



Firstly, Palpatine's Force Storms can only, for sure, tear at the surface of planets, and destroy fleets, whereas the energy that Bane contained within himself could have potentially destroyed an entire Planet. Hell, the ritual isn't even exclusive to Palpatine; both Nadd and a number of unelaborated on Ancient Sith and Jedi were all capable of performing them.

Secondly, Palpatine has not displayed the control to use them on such a small scale where it would be effective against Bane in a versus battle scenario. Now that wouldn't matter so much if the way he summoned them or controlled them actually spoke for his level of power or control, but sadly, they don't. By Palpatine's own words, the way in which they're summonsed is ritualistic.

"When the Force is sensed and moved by emotion, from the very centre of the body, and meditated from the lower vital centers of the being, it acts with the destructive power of a storm, and the savagery of a beast.

I have learned to meditate Anger and Will with clarity and precision, and I have learned to open the hidden reservoirs of dark side Power.

Anger concentrated by Will in the vital center of the body creates a portal through which vast energies are released-the energies of the dark side of the Force." – The Essential Guide to the Force, Pg 179.

As is clear, the power of the Force Storm is not Palpatine’s own. It’s a ritual that unlocks the source of such a large amount power, and one that required minimal strength to be able to perform.

So it’s clear that it speaks nothing for Palpatine’s power. As for control, from the TotJ Companion, PG 60, when describing the effect of force storms: “The power also allows limited control of these storms.” The power itself grants Palpatine limited control (which is all the control that he possessed over them) over them.

So, to recap, as a feat, it’s useless in this scenario, is not testament to a level of force power or mastery, and isn’t even exclusive to Palpatine. It’s worthless to bring up in any scenario except where Palpatine might use them from a distance. This is actually ridiculous coming from you given that you’ve acknowledged this in the past, when using it as an example when trying to downplay the power it might require to pull a moon out of orbit.



Something greater.



Look, nobody tried to attribute the destructive power of the ritual directly to Bane’s level of power, because that would be silly, however it doesn’t change the fact that he still possessed the power to absorb the energy and contain it, and the mastery to re-direct it across an entire planet.



Exactly what I mentioned regarding the BoD’s Force Storm Ritual. All of that was done under his own ability.



1. One of his lesser feats.

2. Actually, it’s made clear that the mere shockwaves of the attack affected the entirety of the foundations of the temple.



Performed in a cartoon full of inconsistent (to other material) power levels. You can’t use feats from the exaggerated Cartoons whilst ignoring consistently displayed limitations from a higher form of canon.

Perhaps if you only consider one of Bane’s lower feats and ignore displayed limitations from the highest form of canon.

But when taking into account the fact that Bane was able to absorb and contain energy capable of wiping out an entire planet, and direct it on a planetwide scale, he’s leagues beyond them.



I didn’t say that he couldn’t apply such power against other force users, I just wanted to make sure that you weren’t ignoring the fact that there’s a difference between using a certain attack on a regular object, and using a certain attack on a being that can defend against them.



Give a source and provide a quote, or drop the point. The passage that I posted is the only one where Dooku’s power, in respect to the entire history of the Order, is noted, to my knowledge.



To quote you: "Since when do character thoughts mean anything?"

Really though, prove that the mentioned characters are in a position to factually make such a remark, and post a quote, or drop the point.



“Give a source and provide a quote, or drop the point.”



Lol. The form itself is described in such a way.



We don’t even know if that’s the case, but either way, nobody’s denying his ability in respect to his era. However, when you make a claim such as the one you did, regarding his ability in respect to the entire history of the Jedi Order, you need to provide solid proof.



I’d question exactly to what degree the Planet enhanced Dooku’s powers. Whilst Yoda was obviously shown to be superior in their AotC duel, he didn’t completely overwhelm him, and that was on equal footing, which leads me to believe that the dark side enhancements of the world can’t have been too great. Also, Yoda was only levitating an Old Woman at the beginning of his duel with Dooku. He wasn’t levitating her the entire time.



Provide proof, or quit bringing this up.



How exactly? Whilst the darkside would certainly make Yoda more deadly and such, nothing suggests that it would actually technically make him more powerful (such an idea would be silly), and he hardly displays a level of power that might imply that he could possibly be a threat to the entire Galaxy. He’s not Darth Nihilus.



That was the point? I thought the point was how much of a threat he would be as a darksider… and no, being able to defend against a few offensive techniques in no way indicates that he would be able to defend against most of them, not to mention if they were being performed by someone more powerful.



Irrelevant. Not using offensive technique does not add to the difficulty of defending against them.



About to defeat Sidious? Completely imaginary on your part. And big deal, he can effectively re-direct Sidious’ attacks; substantiate Sidious’ level of power and prove that what Yoda does is impressive when dealing with titans like Bane.



No.

“As you already know, the Force is the real key to victory in any confrontation. However, the equation is not so simple. Someone well trained in lightsaber combat can defeat an opponent who is stronger in the force. The force allows you to anticipate your opponent’s moves and counter them with your own. But the more options your foe has available, the more difficult it is to predict which will be chosen.” –PoD, PG 150.

Kas’im’s own words say you’re wrong, as does how much of an advantage Kas’im’s technique in Jar’Kai proved to be against Bane.

Also, you’re working under double standards given the way in which you were talking about Dooku’s Makashi technique.

Point is, Kas’im’s technical ability is unequalled by any known swordsman in the SW Mythos, and it’s an enormous advantage, and his speed and force strength is also pretty amazing. He’s easily beyond Yoda.



You’re again asserting that Yoda’s age correlates with how much time he spent training with his lightsaber, without offering proof. The demonstration that was shown to the padawans that I earlier brought up should tell you how Yoda viewed sheer battle adeptness in comparison to force mastery, and nothing points to him relying on anything other than that when it came to battle. You’re also ignoring the fact that Yoda hadn’t ever even been seen with his lightsaber by any single being, and was clearly out of practice, as well as the fact that the Jedi of the time didn’t actually even highly value duelling techniques, nor was there any real need for a Jedi Grand Master to train in the art of battle when the era was as peaceful as it was up until TPM. Now it’s possible that with the return of the Sith, Yoda might have felt the need to start training himself for battle again, but even then, that would only have to be 13 years anyway, and you’ve yet to prove that Yoda would have felt that he needed to work on his technique when his level of force mastery was as high as it was.



Not RotS Sidious, and only ever done to my knowledge against the Prophets of the darkside, where they were most likely caught off guard given the fact that Sidious wasn’t even a hostile threat to their knowledge. Nothing in the comic indicates that they were killed instantly, either.



“But at the last possible instant he threw up a shield to block the attack.” – PoD, PG 245.

As can be seen, the attack would have instantly killed Kas’im, making it easily as impressive as what Sidious was able to do given it would have decimated Kas’im’s entire body.



The same cartoons where the lowly Asajj Ventress and Anakin Skywalker (those specific incarnations being lowly) were able to outperform Yoda’s force display in AotC? Right.



Given that force defence is where the darkside is at its weakest, and the fact that the attack would have instantly shattered his bones and pulverised his flesh, hells yes.

As for Bane’s attack, that was only the middle section, and it was the outer sections that were able to destroy the temple (which was done by directly affecting the entirety of its foundations). The age of the temple is also explicitly mentioned not to have had an effect on the stability of the temple. So yeah, I would consider it far more impressive than all that stuff that you mentioned, not that it’s even worth analysing as it’s nowhere near Bane’s highest showing. Not surprised that you’re focusing on it like you are, though.

I believe that you’re confusing Dooku with Mace, here, and please, one sparring match doesn’t change the fact that he was “mostly” out of practise, as is evident by what’s said in the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook under his very section: “Yoda was opposed to unnecessary violence, and no one had seen his lightsaber in years.” (referring to a short time before TPM). Meaning, during those times, his experience consisted of -- at best – private practise on his own or with a droid remote. Hardly the man when it came to duelling. Now as I said, sure, it’s possible that he may have trained hard with the return of the Sith (though you have yet to prove that), but the point is, those eight centuries are mostly worthless given the fact that he was out of practise, at one point, and had to get back into it and possibly train hard for about 13 years.



Which consisted of what? Whipping out his saber and sparring with them? Or what’s shown – that being guiding them with words rather than physically using his lightsaber to get them to work on their skills? I’d go with option two.




This is beyond ridiculous. Your evidence here is relying on the idea that Yoda must have been practising regularly with a saber to be able to compete with someone that was, whilst ignoring that his main strength: his force mastery, is an obvious advantage that he has over Dooku that could easily compensate for a possible lack of technique.



No, because his entire body wouldn’t stop shaking. That’s what you’d call a visible indications of a struggle.



Elaborate.



Provide proof or quit bringing this up.



Material of lesser canon, known to be inconsistent as far as power levels are concerned…



There’s also an obvious struggle with flinging back the senate Pod that was dropping down on him at no considerable speed. So that would be two instances, actually. Both from the highest form of canon (before you bring up what he does in ANH with the X-Wing, that was years later, with all the time in the world to further his mastery of the force).



Quit being ridiculous. He shows obvious signs of a struggle, and thus a clear limitation in force power. No canon statement is necessary, as there would be no other reason that his body would have shaken like it did unless he was being pushed to his limits.



In material of lesser canon, known to be inconsistent as far as power levels are concerned…



No, it’s not, because your comparison is absolutely off given the methods between what Bane and Dorskk-81 are completely different, not to mention the power that was given to Bane was far above that given to Dorskk-81.



No, I stick to the comics and novels. I’ve never watched a single Star Wars movie.



1. If he actually did show the exact same level of skill in the movies, then bringing up what he did in the novel was pointless on your part.

2. Your comparison is, as usual, completely off. In the demonstration, he was able to literally dodge three simultaneous attacks, completely effortlessly, and barely moving his body. What he does in the movies required effort, and he never has to block three simultaneous attacks at once.



Irregardless of the fact that defending against blaster fire is nowhere near as demanding as going up against a Sith Lord (ranged attacks are easier to predict and defend than saber attacks, and Force Users can move far faster than blaster bolts), I think you need to fully consider exactly how fast those descriptions make Bane out to be. Even to my non force sensitive eyes, Yoda is never shown to move as if people around him are frozen, or leave some insane amount of afterimages (and Yoda is completely done in CGI, so you have no medium limitation arguments here), yet that’s exactly what Bane can, to the eyes of Force Users.



Plo Koon and Saesee Tinn as well, thanks. Do that, or quit making shit up.



What methods would those be? Elaborate. I’d hardly put it past Yoda to slightly twist something with the intent being a good one. Now undeniably prove that the Jedi wouldn’t have done that, or drop the point.



“The NSO was the most militaristic order of Force Users there's ever shown to be, and originally numbering in the thousands, were eventually molded into a much smaller force due to the near constant war that the era provided. The smaller BoD would have logically had a relative high concentration of power based on that alone (given how war sorts out the weak from the strong), so I fail to see how they're somehow weak like the majority of users here like to believe. The fact that it only took Bane and twenty five Sith Lords alone to generate a planet destroying level of energy makes it quite clear that as a collective group, they were extremely powerful.”



Now you’re just being ridiculous. Mace Windu and Kar Vastor were not engaged in a battle at the time. They were talking, Mace says something like “This is Vaapad” IIRC, and suddenly uses some force speed to attack Kar Vastor with six punches. You might as well use the way Obi-Wan moves in TPM to flee from those destroyed droids as evidence for how fast he could fight in a lightsaber duel.



Right, because a “humming blur of light” is so far beyond the kind of afterimage that would make it appear that Bane’s lightsaber was everywhere at once, to the eyes of force users. Please.

And whilst Yoda might be faster, when you factor in Vaapad, that’s not necessarily going to be the case, so even if your example was anything other than worthless, he was still drawing on the dark side power of someone with a force connection on the level of Yoda, Sidious, or Anakin.

Right. Except for the fact that by virtue of description, Bane’s performed levels of speed are beyond anything we see from Yoda.



Please. His participation in the Clone Wars was minimal, as is evident by the fact that he’s stated in numerous sources to have remained in the Temple near constantly, being a Senior Member of the Jedi Council. Off of the top of my head, it’s stated pretty early on in Dark Rendezvous. He’s seen in a few, sure, but even then, he’s mostly only shown to be a behind the scenes military leader, rather than a frontline general.



Now you’re just blatantly lying. He wasn’t a part of any of those small time incidents.



Wow. Persuasive. Might have been in. Fortunately the burden of proof isn’t on you to provide some solid proof. Oh wait…



As I said, after looking back at the Sourcebook, the exact words were “no-one.”



Right. Except we have what’s said in the Power of the Jedi sourcebook which would indicate that Yoda hadn’t even trained with another being for years up until the return of the Sith.

Then we have the thirteen year period following that, where his experience in the Clone Wars was clearly minimal, as is clear from what’s said in Dark Rendezous. And even then, how would that kind of experience for Yoda even be working on his technique? It would be like having Goku fight (with the aim to quickly kill) a bunch of regular beings, and claim that the experience would benefit his martial arts skill, despite the fact that his speed and strength would have done all the work.

Now it’s possible that he might have started to train and work on his technique to fully prepare himself for the Sith threat, but not only have you not provided any proof for that, it’s completely illogical given that he is shown to only ever rely on his force mastery (speed, agility) in battle, and viewed it as being infinitely greater than technique, and even then, he would have most likely had to start from scratch given how out of practise he had been before TPM.

Kas’im, on the other hand, trained with the sole purpose of making his technique as good as it could possibly be. He spent years mastering the forms, and decades perfecting them. He did all of that for dual sabers and the saberstaff as well. Factor in the fact that his speed and force ability is in the very least comparable to Yoda’s, and he’s logically his firm superior.

And Bane was able to dominate him on equal footing, implying his overall ability is far beyond his. Add in the decade’s worth of improvement, the orbalisk armour, and his unique style, and Yoda would get decimated.



Irrelevant misdirection. Kas’im possessed an unfair advantage over Bane that Yoda wouldn’t. What is relavent is how Bane performed against him on equal footing, as that’s the only way their relative ability can be compared.



His talent was obviously extraordinary given that he was able to master all 7 forms in several years for three weapons, and become the greatest swordsman ever at a pretty young age (as is evident by physical descriptions). The decades were spent perfecting the forms, and given Kas’im’s obvious talent, it can be logically assumed that his improvement rate in those ten years would be far greater than that of others.



Doesn’t matter. Dedication and talent can make up for a lack of a certain number of years of training. Dooku obviously never mastered the lightsaber anywhere near the degree that Kas’im did, making your downplayment worthless.



Claiming to know a few of the forms’ weak points really means little. Bane knew how to counter every move and combination there was to the double bladed lightsaber. Doesn’t mean that he could wield the weapon with any major effect, and Dooku certainly never displays anything other than Makashi in any of his duels.



Speaking in terms of technique, Vaapad was essentially Juyo -- which incorporated manoeuvres from a number of different styles -- with a few extra combinations of Windu’s own invention. This doesn’t make him a Master of multiple forms, and even then, Kas’im is way beyond such a title. He mastered and spent decades perfecting every form, for three types of lightsabers.



What are you talking about? Since when was Sidious a Master of multiple forms? Since when is there even proof that he had used a lightsaber since becoming the Chancellor?



If we were to go by your absurd comparison, perhaps.



Read the first part of the fight, aka the only relevant part of the fight in this debate, aka the part of the fight where they’re both on equal footing. Bane completely dominates Kas’im, keeping him completely on the defensive, where Kas’im is described as turning to desperation, and eventually just flat out gives up a tries to flee.

And Kas’im’s easily Yoda’s superior, given his far greater technical ability, and comparable speed and force ability.



I wasn’t referring to the hilt, as was quite clear, but the unique way in which he grips it, and angles the blade. Stated by the omniscient narrator to be Bane’s personal, unique style. Kas’im’s the only one who would be prepared against it.



Way to ignore the protection, enhancements, and unique style that the orbalisks give Bane, and focus on something that relies on a) Bane initiating a force lightning attack, and b) Yoda being able to defend himself against it.



Since when is Yoda’s lightsaber smaller than any other in anything other than length? Sounds pretty made up to me. Either way, the joints are far too small to allow a lethal blow to land in, and the orbalisks heal near intantly.



The mad muppet style is a pretty good advantage, I must say, but hardly compares to Bane’s when you take into account that not only is his grip and blade angle unique to him, but he can integrate melee attacks into his lightsaber style, and take a near fully offensive stance in battle, both without having to properly defend himself.

Bane’s overall lightsaber ability without factoring the orbalisk protection in is logically far above Yoda’s, given his domination of Kas’im on equal footing, and his extreme improvement and enhancements beyond that point, and the orbalisk protection makes him exponentially more deadly. Yoda gets curbstomped, bad

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You don't respond to fallacies yet you have yet to come up with a cogent argument throughout your 30+ bans... Interesting..

Wow, you waited an entire minute this time.

That must have been hard.

Originally posted by MutantMessiah
Melanie
*hint* its not my name

Do you guys ever sleep?
How come your all still up at 6 in the morning?

Oh wait. Time difference. Yeah.....

Judging from Mutant Messiah's points its clear that Bane overwelms Yoda with the Force.

To back up my allies points


As seen when he effortlessly demolised the mighty Rancour, something that the "saber God" Skywalker was too scared to even attempt. The only one who even mildly equates to Kas'im was Tulak Hord and we only have one statement from Kriea on his skill. She is one tough lady(loosely) to impress though.



Which is irrelevant considering that, by the grace of Revan, Bane can completley resist all poisons. The only reason that he didn't do this in the first place was because he was rendered unconcious by his own power.


Whose greatest shown feat of power was when he ripped that balcony of the wall(clumsily) in ROTS.
I'm pretty sure that even that wasn't his doing (Sisious)



Which makes him actually more perfetic really. Given that Kas'im was the best ever and that Bane was able to demolish him after only about a year of training (as opposed to Yoda's 850 at the end of which he struggled against Dooku who Anakin beat simply by wanting to). Add on to that his extra 10 years of training with his extreme learning rate and Bane actually does rape him ( he is sick after all)



Good point. If the Chancellor did practise during that time wouldn't the Jedi be able to sense his use of the Force?

Enjoy the ban to you and your sock Noobaris, you still can't debate.

WOW. You ARE repetative.Congrats, thats a skill that is.

Thanks NOobaris..

HOOOOOLD ONNN! Sidious superior to Bane? nooooooooo. Bane was the guy who single-handedly bought back the sith order during The Great Sith wars. Sidious is a pimple compared to Bane.

I know. I know.
Bane does rock.
Also his fast, strong Djem So would wipe the floor with Yoda's Ataru

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
I know. I know.
Bane does rock.
Also his fast, strong Djem So would wipe the floor with Yoda's Ataru

I understand that you're new to the forums, but the only people who can make claims that hold as much weight as God-given-fact are very few; I happen to be one of them, you're not. You need to support your assertions.

OK, off-topic neways. Bane wins hands down.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
To back up my allies points

I love wasting my precious free-time with you, no matter what name you currently use for posting, N00baris.



Great comparison, dude.
You did, of course, notice that Luke Skywalker didn't even have a lightsaber in the situation in ROTJ you are talking about, correct? Remember how it was hidden inside R2-D2? I'd really love to see Kas'im downing the Rancor with bare hands. This after just having gone through six months of Jedi training (which would be equal to what Luke had at the mentioned point in time).

Aside of that: Compare a Rancor to a Leviathan, think about the fact that Kyp Durron was capable of killing one without a lightsaber, and then come talk to me again about uber saber fame. It really needs uber skill to slaughter a mindless beast with a weapon that cuts through everything.



Awww. Yes. This is why they had to remove those nice little Orbalisk from Bane who was actually nearly killed in the process? Talking bullshit much, eh?



Urm. Sure. I wonder how did rip apart that nice metal pillar in AotC and tossed it on Obi-Wan and Anakin. Dooku maybe? Oh, yes. That aside owning people in force contest with a mere gesture (Asajj Ventress, Obi-Wan) or ripping parts out of solid stone (at least - if not ferrocrete) buildings (in AotC he attempts this on Yoda - in "Trackdown" he does the same with Tholme).

But the mere idea that Sidious could have done the work for him in RotS qualifies you for the Olymp of Stupidity. I mean hey...you think both Jedi in the room (at least Anakin - who was still standing) wouldn't have realized if some "third party" would have intereferred there? That aside from the fact that we have this nice little RotS novel that tells us that it...erm...was Dooku. Great thinking on your part.



Kas'im wasn't the best ever. Otherwise Bane wouldn't have bested him, punk. Logical reasoning escapes your grasp, doesn't it? Kas'im might have been notorious in his lightsaber training. That means what? Kas'im might be in his 40s. Dooku trained equally hard - and is 80 years old. Is he better than Kas'im, probably, especially considering that you have various sources mentioning that training in different techniques (which is the basis for form VI) makes you a versatile fighter but you would lack a real mastery of one form (since all of them are linked to certain philosophies and mindsets). Thus, I think, the master of the "ultimate refinement of lightsaber to lightsaber combat" might actually be better than some punk who learned all styles - especially since the same punk was training all his students in all styles. We saw how great those Sith were in lightsaber duels, didn't we?



Did you miss the entire "the force is clouded by the Dark Side" stuff appearing in the movies as well as in various other sources? If you want to view the comic "Sithisis" as canon, he was even capable of performing full-scale Sith rituals on Coruscant without the Jedi noticing. That aside from the fact that you can't really track the use of the force on a planet that is filled with several thousands of force users (Jedi Temple).

Aside of that: He was obviously in a shape good enough with that weapon to kill 3 Jedi Masters in a blink (even though he did surprise them to a certain extend) and keep up duelling with Mace Windu for a brief period of time.



Urm. Sure. That's why every elitist Djem So practioneer in the Jedi Order was inable to even think about defeating Yoda, correct? Notice how Sidious thinks that, had Yoda faced Anakin as he was in RotS (Dooku noting that Anakin was the "finest Djem So practicioneer he has ever seen", Yoda would have totally freaking owned Skywalker. So much for this. One style doesn't give you a general advantage against other styles. Especially since the natural disadvantages of Ataru (being an easy target after accrobatics) don't count for Yoda.

Anything else to say, wise guy?

@Gideon: Nice post. "Owned", I'd say...

Originally posted by BaneOfJedi700
OK, off-topic neways. Bane wins hands down.

I understand you're new, and that's why I don't think you're an idiot. But here we tend to provide (solid) proof of some sort when we type up such bold statements.

okay i'll give you my view: okay Yoda was forced into exile because he failed to kill Palpatine/Sidious. It was a dem close match but Sidious won. If Sidious could beat Yoda with a mix of his force & saber skills, why couldn't a younger, more Hate-consumed being who single-handedly managed to destroy the so-called sith during the Great Sith Wars kick his arse in a 1v1

You said it. 'So-called Sith', they were no challenge for someone like Bane.
What does the fact that he was forced into exile has to do with his strength? Besides, take a look at the setting. Don't you think Yoda would've had a better chance at a different place?
Awright, why couldn't a younger, more hate-consumed (I hardly believe anyone would have more hatred than Sids, btw) guy such as Bane defeat him? Because he has not proven anything just yet which puts him in the same league as Yoda.

Originally posted by BaneOfJedi700
okay i'll give you my view: okay Yoda was forced into exile because he failed to kill Palpatine/Sidious. It was a dem close match but Sidious won. If Sidious could beat Yoda with a mix of his force & saber skills, why couldn't a younger, more Hate-consumed being who single-handedly managed to destroy the so-called sith during the Great Sith Wars kick his arse in a 1v1

Oh my. Is that you trying to tell me that Bane > Sidious because he managed to have the BoD destroy themselves by handing them something they thought to be the ultimate weapon against the Jedi?

Great God.

Returning an argument in the same fashion would be saying that Sidious did bring down the entire Jedi Order (thousands) and the Republic (millions of worlds) on his own with similar schemes.

Conclusion in the realm of your logic:
Sidious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bane

Really. Try to make an argument based on logic or STFU. I'm not interested in your mere opinion. If I was, I'd tell you which one I'd like to hear.

The same way that Bane did: by smushing its brain into fallafles.
Ka'sim actually says that he could do this but he wanted a 'warm-up'



Which is about the same amount as Bane had.


Aside from dodging massive claws, huge fangs and , i think i'm right in saying, poison. And tha fact that the Rancour was the most fearsom beast out there bars the Krayt dragons.

Actually he said ,' as fine a one as he had ever seen'.



Awww. Yes. This was because he was unconcious at the time. By the time he woke up the damage was done. Ignoring facts much, eh?



No. Thats becuase its so hard to even imagine that small ball of snot even fighting. He did have arthritus after all.
And non one in the order had even seen him fight in their life times.

It says in the book something like that if you check.
And Sisious would have wanted Kenobi out of the fight so Anakin would be able to get really, really pissed without his masters presence.


Does moving at invisible speeds mean nothing to you?

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
The same way that Bane did: by smushing its brain into fallafles.
Ka'sim actually says that he could do this but he wanted a 'warm-up'


Again: This still is Luke after some days (weeks at best) of actual training and after reading Obi-Wan's diary for another six months. Do you want to compare RotJ Luke to Yoda?



Urm. No. Because Bane did go through extensive training each day. If you consider that as "training" Luke, as he is in RotJ, just had days or maybe some weeks - the time he did spent with Yoda. Simply not compareable. And still RotJ Luke isn't Yoda.



Since when do Rancors possess poison? Those things are outright lame and clumsy beyond believe. Just watch the thing in RotJ moving. It's not that this things are super fast killing machines or any challenge for a fully trained force user.



And he was unconcious because the poison did knock him out. So much for "ignoring facts", hmm?



Sure. That's why he does actually fight in various sources during the PT. You did notice his three years of frontline action in the Clone Wars right before RotS, right? Repeating already defeated points doesn't make them any better.



It says: Come up with quotes or STFU noob.



Yes. Hence why Dooku did take Kenobi out of the fight. Really...



Doesn't it get into your head? The same was done by Mace Windu. And Yoda is still faster than that. I may once again repeat for you: The small guy deflected more than 40 Blaster bolts shot at him from seven different ankles in less than 4 seconds (RotS movie - highest form of canon) with apparent ease. You think Bane could do that? I highly doubt it.

No. It was the lightning that knocked him out. Since when has poison knocked people unconcious.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
No. It was the lightning that knocked him out. Since when has poison knocked people unconcious.

There are quite many substances that can be called "poison" and do knock people out, mate. Aside of that - since when does force lightning knock people out over the time period of several days?

And by the way: That little incident doesn't make Bane look that great. I mean...he wasn't able to repel his own force lightning again (Dooku was capable of doing that in AotC when he had his own lightning thrown back into his face by Yoda) and if it was his own lightning that knocked him out....well...Yoda did take a full barrage of lightning from Sidious and was back on his feet a minute after that. And this aside from getting owned by a Jedi who was already on the ground and about to die. Indeed powerful the almighty Bane.

Originally posted by Borbarad
I love wasting my precious free-time with you, no matter what name you currently use for posting, N00baris.

Nai, if you seriously believe that Exodus and Nebaris are the same person, than I can only assume that you're either a fascistcrusader level sheep, or an extremely unperceptive person. Either way, well done trying to prove him wrong by replying to a completely different person. Seriously, wonderful job!

Originally posted by E-Hotshot
Nai, if you seriously believe that Exodus and Nebaris are the same person, than I can only assume that you're either a fascistcrusader level sheep, or an extremely unperceptive person. Either way, well done trying to prove him wrong by replying to a completely different person. Seriously, wonderful job!

That of course affects the validity of the basic argument...not.

Thanks for producing another pointless post. +1? KKTHXBYE.

fascistcrusader level sheep

Sheep, or just plain awesome?

Great! I'm going to get banned.

Why?

Origi