Darth Bane vs Yoda

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Darth Hord
Its RO2 Darth Bane vs ROTS Yoda
Bane does have his full orbalisk armor
Fight takes place out side of the Rakatan Temple on Lehon

1. Fore fight

2. Sabers only

3. All out

Darth Martin
Yoda takes all.

Darth Sexy
This is a tough one because Bane is a saber beast and he has his orbalisks, which would make it very hard for Yoda to kill him. However, he's never faced anyone like Yoda before, while Yoda fought Sidious to a standstill. Seeing as how Sidious had the most powerful version of force lightning and at the very most, Bane rivals him, I see no advantage for Bane since Yoda can just fling it back at him. I would have to give this to Yoda because despite of Bane's mastery of the force, Yoda was able to stalemate and almost defeat someone superior to Bane.

JediSamuraiMRB
Yoda takes this

vader11
Yoda wins.

Darth Martin
Next!

Darth Sexy
I'm so glad you dipshits can post such a convincing argument. I guess Rex stopped banning noobs.

Darth Martin
Actually Sexy you pretty much summed it all up. Congrats!

Darth Exodus
Force fight: Bane. simply because thers not much that Yoda can really do to him with the Force except chuck stuff at him.That would do much though because of the orbalisks. Plus Bane knows all sorts of nasty darkside offensive stuff.
Saber dual: Bane. Again because of the orbalisks. they augment his strength and speed and make 90% of his body impregnable. Whats Yoda gonna do anyway? Bite his shins? lol. I know Yoda's a master swordsman but so is Bane and he just has too many advantages
All-out: Its got to be Bane. For the arguement.s above.

Game, set and match. Bane wins all three. big grin big grin big grin big grin

Darth Exodus
I'm new to this so sorry about the spelling mistakes in my previous comment. embarrasment embarrasment embarrasment
Corrections:
Theres, not thers.
That wouldn't instead of that would.
Again sorry for the mistakes.

Darth Hord
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
I'm new to this so sorry about the spelling mistakes in my previous comment. embarrasment embarrasment embarrasment
Corrections:
Theres, not thers.
That wouldn't instead of that would.
Again sorry for the mistakes.

It's ok about your mistake but for future reference you have 15 minute period after your posts to edit them. BTW welcome to KMC smokin'


EDIT: I'm going with Yoda in all 3 In the Force Yoda could tk him and if Bane tries to hit him with lightning he could just reflect it. And as it is shown in the new Rule of Two Book Bane's orbalisk armor is weak against lightning and will die (Bane was knocked out after his lightning hit him) plus the toxin from the orbalisk kills him in 3 days. Sabers I'm going for Yoda (see Darth Sexy's reasoning) and all out it will be close but I think Yoda could beat him/

Darth Exodus
Bane has other attacks than just lightning. Revan knew lots, including:
force choke, force drain, life drain, force terror etc and she would have taught these to Bane.
Bane also has force disintegrate (as shown by Zannah) and force blast (took out a whole temple). He also pulled a whole Moon out of orbit. Yoda hasn't done anything even close to that except struggle to pull a starfighter out of some mud.
Also, I agree that Bane would have trouble with Yoda because of his unfamiliar style, but I sill think that Bane's too well protected and too aggressive. If Dooku can do it then so can the suped-up Bane. evil face

Darth Exodus
Thanks for the welcome!!! big grin big grin

GahLakTus
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Bane has other attacks than just lightning. Revan knew lots, including:
force choke, force drain, life drain, force terror etc and she would have taught these to Bane.
Question, will these work on a force user more powerful than darth bane? Whats going to stop yoad from lifting bane with the force and bang him like a ragdoll seeing that yoda could lift up mountains?

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Bane also has force disintegrate (as shown by Zannah)
Bad logic, zannah popped that guys hand without any training from bane.
Originally posted by Darth Exodus

and force blast (took out a whole temple).
Its called force wave where vader is just as good as bane in that category, oh and he destroyed the foundations of a 25 000 year old temple, not the whole temple itself.
Originally posted by Darth Exodus

He also pulled a whole Moon out of orbit.
Don't lie, he NEVER pulled a moon out of orbit.
Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Yoda hasn't done anything even close to that except struggle to pull a starfighter out of some mud.
See the above.
Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Also, I agree that Bane would have trouble with Yoda because of his unfamiliar style, but I sill think that Bane's too well protected and too aggressive. If Dooku can do it then so can the suped-up Bane. evil face Actually i think bane can fair up pretty well and give a hard fight to yoda but will ultimately lose.

MadMel
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Yoda hasn't done anything even close to that except struggle to pull a starfighter out of some mud
yoda was throwing around CIS ships during the clones wars erm

Darth Exodus
No-ones ever used some of those techniques around Yoda. We don't if he'll be able to block them.
To the TK comment I say that, safe in his orbalisks, Bane would just fold his arms over his head and wait for Yoda to get tired.
And when did Yoda lift up mountains ?



(shrug) well everyone else was saying it so I put it in. Sorry if its untrue.

Darth Exodus
Ships that were already flying!!! (probably)

MadMel
he still threw them about like they were his plaything...he made them smack into eachother...rather funny to watch big grin

still better than -

Darth Exodus
It does sound funny. lol laughing
That still doesn't do anything about the orbalisk's.
They're Impregnable, remember.

Darth Exodus
You're still not taking in to consideration the fact that there isn't much that Yoda can do to him. All he can reach is his feet and hands (both really hard to hit). Eventually Bane would beat him, if only in stamina war.

Darth Hord
For the record Bane never did pull a moon out of orbit. Wookieepedia needs to update that part.

In the rule of two book. Bane gets control of a drexl and puts a (at most a hundred km but can't remember the exact number mentioned) few times to males sure I didn't miss anything.

Darth Sexy
His orbalisks aren't impregnable and he didn't move the moon. So sorry Noobaris.

GahLakTus
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
No-ones ever used some of those techniques around Yoda. We don't if he'll be able to block them.
Prove to me an inferior opponent can harm somebody with higher defence
Originally posted by Darth Exodus

To the TK comment I say that, safe in his orbalisks, Bane would just fold his arms over his head and wait for Yoda to get tired.
Orbalisks don't protect you from the force.
Originally posted by Darth Exodus

And when did Yoda lift up mountains ? Clone wars

Darth Exodus
The only Force attack that a Lightsider can do is Force push or pull. Orbalisks protect you from broken bones etc. Banes laughing



Different Force attacks have different properties. Force lightning is a highly different style of attack than Force drain or Force Terror. If Yoda has never encountered it then it stands to reason that he may be unable to block it effectively.



Theres nothing Yoda can do to penatrate them (lightning or super, super strength).
And who the Heck is Noobaris.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
The only Force attack that a Lightsider can do is Force push or pull. Orbalisks protect you from broken bones etc. Banes laughing



Different Force attacks have different properties. Force lightning is a highly different style of attack than Force drain or Force Terror. If Yoda has never encountered it then it stands to reason that he may be unable to block it effectively.



Theres nothing Yoda can do to penatrate them (lightning or super, super strength).
And who the Heck is Noobaris.

You might actually be dumber than Noobaris, or you're just Noobaris pretending to be dumber than you really are.

Darth Hord
Originally posted by Darth Hord
For the record Bane never did pull a moon out of orbit. Wookieepedia needs to update that part.

In the rule of two book. Bane gets control of a drexl and puts a (at most a hundred km but can't remember the exact number mentioned) few times to males sure I didn't miss anything.

^Wow was tired when I wrote this. What I meant to say was that in the Rule of two book. Bane uses the force to warp the mind of drexl (which is sort of like pterodactyl). Then he flies into space by putting a barrier around him and the drexl so they can breath. The distance between the the moon and planet is only a few hundred kilometers.

So again for that.

Man of Christ
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
The only Force attack that a Lightsider can do is Force push or pull.



Just to clarify, mace windu is a lightsider who used force crush.

Darth Hord
And Luke is a lightsider and did force choke in return of the jedi. Ploo Koon and Luke as well did electric judgment/force lightning. As man of christ said mace has done force crush. Anakin has done some type of force scream in the clone wars. And this is just off hand.

Man of Christ
to add to that nomi sunrider as a lightider did force sever

Darth Exodus
If so then that might be because noobaris is probably about 30 yrs old whilst I'm only 16.
Also I'm not noobaris and this is the last time I'm going to say it. Just wait untill noobaris joins in and proves that I'm not him/her.



Duely noted. However, Bane is Strong enough to block all of those.

Face facts. All you guys have is that Yoda's arrogant, that he drew with Dooku and that he lost to Sidious.
Whereas I've got numerous refences to Bane's mastery of the Force (Thought Bomb, Force lightning storm, killing Qordis easily, beating Kaan's force manipulations, smashing the Rakatan temple), His orbalisk-hightened strength, speed and force powers, his blade skills, his height, laughing laughing , and his lightsaber proof/resistant orbalisks.

Come on!! Theres three of you, you all have more experience than me and you have alot of source material. I have next to none, I'm a teenager and I'm alone.

Please up your game and stop insulting me. It's pointless, pathetic and it just makes me pity you. I still quite like you guys ( except for Darth Sexy) and am trying to remain civil.

See you tomorrow

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
If so then that might be because noobaris is probably about 30 yrs old whilst I'm only 16.
Also I'm not noobaris and this is the last time I'm going to say it. Just wait untill noobaris joins in and proves that I'm not him/her.
Then stop sharing the same retarded intellect and you won't be mistaken for him.




No, this is your unsupported opinion.


Except Yoda didn't lose to Sidious. At worse it was a tie (as stated by Lucas), and at best, Yoda had the upper hand. We can use the A>B>C argument here so if Yoda=Sidious, and Sidious>Bane, then Yoda>Bane. Bane's mastery of the force? His thought bomb required other force users. His lightning storm was created by Revan. His force wave has been duplicated many times. His blade skills while amazing, aren't the best.


And you're getting trounced in this argument.



Nobody cares. Don't pity us because after all, it's you providing the shitty arguments. If you want to "voice your opinion", go to a n00b forum where they care about that.

Darth Hord
and btw I'm a junior in highschool

Lightsnake
He's not strong enough to stop himself from cooking in lightning, though. something Yoda can hurl right back at him.

How about Yoda's mastery of the Force, then?

The former is worthless in a fight, the latter Yoda can block and reflect, Qordis was nothing to Yoda, neither was Kaan, Yoda can also raise or bring down temples.
That puts Bane well on the level

and the orbalisks have gaps. Too big for most lightsabers to really get in, but Yoda's lightsaber is smaller than most. Oh, yes, and let's not forget that using force lightning is an error for Bane that'll remove the orbalisk advantage, and that his head has no defense.
Yoda has his speed, his own force enhanced strength, skill and, let's not forget Yoda knows how to fight huge opponents. Does Bane know how to fight small ones?

Darth Exodus
If Sisious can do it then Bane can do it.



Please elaborate.



I'm not sure that the first point is true. Mabye though. I also think that Bane would be able to block his own lightning (trained by Sith, Dooku did it) and Yoda wouldn't be able to reach his Knees let alone his head.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
If Sisious can do it then Bane can do it.
One of the dumbest things I've ever heard. You seriously belong one one of those star wars fan sites where everyone tells you what they "think". Unfortunately for you, this isn't one of those sites.




How is Bane going to block his lightning? He wasn't able to in Rule of Two, what makes you think he can? And even if he can, waht difference does that make?

Lightsnake
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
If Sisious can do it then Bane can do it.

That's not a response. It's an assertion that needs proof. Palpatine is also noticeably smaller than Bane and had years to prepare himself for a confrontation such as that.
Bane has never seen someone of Yoda's size fight. Ergo, why should we believe he'd be prepared for a fight where his size is such a disadvantage?


What was unclear?



It doesn't matter. Yoda can raise his hands to redirect it how he wants, and Bane was not able to block his own inside the force bubble, why should we believe he'd be able to block it from Yoda there who could create a bubble or reflect it?

And it doesn't matter where it touches him. A single orbalisk being killed is enough to end the find given that it releases that poison and all.

and again: the gaps are too big for MOST sabers. Yoda is smaller than 'most'

Darth Exodus
What terrible logic. How was Bane going to block it if he's already using lightning thus using one of his hands and holding a lightsaber.
And he was taken by surprise. And the bubble was only about 2 metres big meaning that it rebounded too fast to block.



Bane's a smart guy. I'm sure he'd adapt. And his height is as much an advantage as a disadvantage. Yoda can't reach anything vital.



Everyone speaks of Yoda's Force Mastery but it is rarely seen. Give me some examples.

Lightsnake
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
What terrible logic. How was Bane going to block it if he's already using lightning thus using one of his hands and holding a lightsaber.
And he was taken by surprise. And the bubble was only about 2 metres big meaning that it rebounded too fast to block.
He was holding a lightsaber.

You answered your own question.



This is not a rebuttal. You give me proof, or examples. You don't say 'oh, I'm sure he'd...' I don't care what you're sure of. I want evidence and not your speculation.

And Yoda is fully capable of reaching Bane's head. It's called 'jumping'...or 'tripping your opponent.



Blocking force lightning with his bare hands.
A feat stated to be next to impossible for all but the most powerful Jedi. And lifting a large temple with the Force with no visible effort. .

Sylar
Originally posted by Lightsnake




Blocking force lightning with his bare hands.
A feat stated to be next to impossible for all but the most powerful Jedi. And lifting a large temple with the Force with no visible effort. . I have a question lightsnake, that technique yoda used to deflect lightning, is it the same as the one vader used to deflect bolts and turn it into raw energy?

Gideon
There's a bit of a dispute amongst sources; some say that Vader used the Force to deflect the lasers, and others say that his gauntlets (which, I believe, belonged to Kaan) deflected them.

Lightsnake
I think the actual power is different...force lightning energy is a far cry from that of a blaster bolt, after all

Sylar
I recall shadows of the empire novel stating that he could use the force to deflect blaster bolts, i seriously doubt it's beyond his ability to do so but weather it is the same technique as yoda used to block lightning can be debated.

Darth Exodus
laughing laughing Nice. But it was a rhetorical question Lightsnake.



Gauntlets? Vader has Cyborg hands not gauntlets. Plus Jacen did it in Betrayal so it is a Force technique.



If Dooku ( a lesser) can handle it then so can Bane. Bane has beaten superior opponants (Kas'im) and was the best dualist in his academy. Plus these attacks wouldn't be as powerful as normal attacks as they rely solely on momentum.



Prove it, quote it and elaborate in the words of Sylar.

Darth Sexy
Star Wars cartoons Noobaris.

Lightsnake
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
laughing laughing Nice. But it was a rhetorical question Lightsnake.

Foolishness gets you nowhere



False analogy. Sorry, but Bane didn't beat Kas'im in sheer bladework.
And Bane is taller than Dooku. Who had long experience of training with and against Yoda.
Plus Dooku's a fencer style fighter so he doesn't focus on momentum.


Visual evidence, boyo? Watched Clone Wars lately?

MadMel
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Gauntlets? Vader has Cyborg hands not gauntlets.
i thought vader had one cyborg arm from the shoulder down, and another cybrog arm from the elbow down erm

i love that bit big grin

Darth Exodus
sorry wasn't clear on this but I was talking about Yoda. Meaning that his attacks wouldn't be strong enough to break Banes orbalisks.

Darth Sexy
No

Darth Exodus
Did you just actually agree with me!!? blink blink

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Bane has other attacks than just lightning. Revan knew lots, including:
force choke, force drain, life drain, force terror etc and she would have taught these to Bane.
Bane also has force disintegrate (as shown by Zannah) and force blast (took out a whole temple). He also pulled a whole Moon out of orbit. Yoda hasn't done anything even close to that except struggle to pull a starfighter out of some mud.
Also, I agree that Bane would have trouble with Yoda because of his unfamiliar style, but I sill think that Bane's too well protected and too aggressive. If Dooku can do it then so can the suped-up Bane. evil face
That and pull a droid carrier out of the sky and force two to collide.
And yes SW:Clone Wars is canon as stated in the ROTS commentary. Oh and Yoda pulled the Starfighter out with one hand so I don't see how he "struggled" plus Yoda wasn't even in his prime here
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
What terrible logic. How was Bane going to block it if he's already using lightning thus using one of his hands and holding a lightsaber.
And he was taken by surprise. And the bubble was only about 2 metres big meaning that it rebounded too fast to block.



Bane's a smart guy. I'm sure he'd adapt. And his height is as much an advantage as a disadvantage. Yoda can't reach anything vital.



Everyone speaks of Yoda's Force Mastery but it is rarely seen. Give me some examples.

Well lets see he ripped CIS cargo ships from the sky and made them his biatches. He was the Grand Master of the Order. He made Count Dooku run with his tail between his legs, and he redirected the arguably most powerful Sith Lord in existance's Force Lightning with his bare hands. Oh and you say Yoda can't reach anything vital then how did he decapitate two clone troops at once in a single swing. Come on now "size matters not." Yoda=Sids>>Bane.

Darth Exodus
It only rose by about a metre and it took ages. Bane could of chucked it over his shoulder like a poodle.




If this was in space then I refuse to be impressed. Its not hard to propel something without any drag. All it would take would be one small push. In space things are weightless



Arguably being the key word.


I meant easily. And neither of those two were saber prodigy's.



eek! eek! laughing laughing laughing out loud laughing out loud

MadMel
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
It only rose by about a metre and it took ages. Bane could of chucked it over his shoulder like a poodle. we all know thats a weak yoda erm

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
If this was in space then I refuse to be impressed. Its not hard to propel something without any drag. All it would take would be one small push. In space things are weightless
they were in the atmostphere of coruscant

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Arguably being the key word. yea, if by arguably you mean officially roll eyes (sarcastic)

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
I meant easily. And neither of those two were saber prodigy's. it doesnt take him any effort to jump, so yea, its easy for him..

Darth Exodus
Is there another one?



Very well, then all I can say is that Yoda himself said that "Size matters not to the Force".



Please don't steer the arguement down that road.



Its pretty obvious that it would be much harder to fight someone in the air, when you can't change direction or stop. Also, since Yoda has to jump to even hurt Bane then he would not be able to swing very hard as his strikes would rely on pure momentum.

Darth Exodus
If no ones gonna reply then I guess I win.

Darth Sexy
Nobody replied because you've been pwned.

Elite Hunter
...and for the fact you have shown yourself to have no logic at all.

Darth Exodus
HA HA . You're all so damn funny I can hardly breath.

I still win though.

Bane cream's Yoda. stick out tongue stick out tongue

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
HA HA . You're all so damn funny I can hardly breath.

I still win though.

Bane cream's Yoda. stick out tongue stick out tongue

Denial is a ***** when you've been WTFPwned this many times Noobaris.

MadMel
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Is there another one? obviously roll eyes (sarcastic)

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Very well, then all I can say is that Yoda himself said that "Size matters not to the Force". thats because he's so old and he is so attuned to the force..it is clear that other force users have had have trouble moving large objects..

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Please don't steer the arguement down that road
i dont see why i shouldn't erm

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Its pretty obvious that it would be much harder to fight someone in the air, when you can't change direction or stop. Also, since Yoda has to jump to even hurt Bane then he would not be able to swing very hard as his strikes would rely on pure momentum. good point....except for the fact that yoda, even in midair, is able to block and even push back people stronger than himself without breaking a sweat...dooku was at peek physical strength and yoda was pushing him back..iow he uses to force to argument his own strength..also, yoda could easily change direction in midair..i mean, if he can throw CIS transporters like toys then he could push himself through the air..also, at one point in the dooku vs yoda fight, yoda did change direction in midair, so your arguement fails..

Borbarad
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Is there another one?

Oh well. Yoda is just the most powerful Jedi that existed up to that point in history. You'd like to call that weak? Some easy math for you: Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in Bane's order (which means Sidious > Bane). Yet even Sidious was clearly not able to beat Yoda (saber wise and force wise) despite of the fact that he fought him out of superior positions two times. How the hell do you think that Bane can do the job? Because he's less powerful than Sidious who wasn't able to do it? Convincing line of thought there. Logic surrenders.



That negates the fact that Yoda moved really huge objects with telekinesis how exactly? Oh right. It doesn't. Another lesson for you, this time physics: If I can "produce" enough energy to lift an entire temple up or push several million tons of metal away - what will happen if I use the very same power (kinetic energy) on a human being?

Yoda reached a stalemate with a guy more powerful than Bane. He made one of the most powerful force users and best duellist the Jedi Order has ever produced run twice (Dooku) and obviously scared him to such a degree, that Dooku develops thoughts about Yoda going Dark Side and wiping the floor with Sidious ass with the power of the Dark Side, just to develop into a thread to every single living being in the Galaxy.

Bane did what? Own a bunch of people that are children and weaklings in comparison to the little Jedi? Congratulations. That qualifies him as potential "Yoda-Killer" how exactly? Not? Yoda will own him in terms of a force fight.



Wow!
Wait a second. Does the term "the force" ring a bell? Yoda, after all, still is a Jedi. He is very well able to change the direction of his movements mid-air or to simply "stop" them if he likes. Mace Windu in "Shatterpoints" even calls that a "basic" ability (when altering the direction of a force push Kar Vastor is using against him). So much for that nonsense.

And another lesson in SW reality regarding Yoda's strength. If you watch the duel between him and Dooku in AotC you will realize that Dooku is using both hands to parry some of Yodas blows. The same Dooku that effortlessly parries a combined strike of Anakin and Obi-Wan one-handed (as he does with Anakin's furious attacks just before he loses in RotS). So obviously Yoda is quite able to hammer some nice strikes on an opponents lightsaber if needed.

Last lesson - this time "logic". Dude. A lightsaber cuts through virtually everything, even if casually moved. So how the hell does the "strength" behind the strikes matter with the exception of the fact that a harder strike might be harder to parry? Right: It doesn't. And if you talk about the difficulties that Yoda might have fighting Bane - vice versa? Yoda is fast enough to avoid the strikes of three master swordsman (among them Depa Billaba) without even holding a weapon in his hand (Darth Maul - Shadow Hunter). He's capable of running circles around Sidious who is fast and precise enough with a lightsaber to have his blade run so close and fast around Maul's body that a constant blur was seen and a muscle twitch of Maul would have resulted in losing a limp.

YAY. Bane would absolutely defeat Yoda in a lightsaber fight - if we ignore the fact that he's most likely not able to hit Yoda, that the Jedi Master has a 800 year training advantage over Bane with the lightsaber and the stuff that Yoda has shown us in terms of lightsaber combat. So if we completely ignore any information we have, we might reach your conclusion. In "reality"? Yoda destroys Bane. End of story.

MadMel
not to mention yoda mastered every saber form (perfecting ataru)

MutantMessiah
Originally posted by Borbarad
Some easy math for you: Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in Bane's order (which means Sidious > Bane).

If you're referring to what's said in the Dark Side Sourcebook (which is the only source that might appear to directly state as much), here's the exact passage:

When the Sith finally emerged from a thousand years of watching and waiting, they numbered in accordance with the tradition set down by Darth Bane, only two. The most powerful of these was Darth Sidious, an ice-cold, diabolically calculating genius equipped with the strengths of the dark side of the Force, as well as an enormous wealth of Sith artifacts, equipment, and knowledge. Perhaps the best weapon in his arsenal was his keen understanding of galactic politics, and his seemingly unlimited ability to engineer situations that ultimately served to further empower the sith.'

As can be seen, whether Palpatine is being stated to be the most powerful of the entire Sith Order that had been "watching and waiting ," or the two then current Sith that had "finally emerged" is extremely vague. Not to mention, given the context, where Palpatine's intelligence, understanding of politics, and ability to manipulate situations to his advantage are all elaborated on directly after Palpatine is described as "The most powerful," the exact meaning of "powerful" in this case is up for interpretation. Either way, it's your burden of proof, so either prove that the quote perfectly fits your interpretation, or drop the point.



Please. When you have fighters as different as Bane (hint: his orbalisk armour, and the way he fights with it) and Sidious do, ABC arguments involving the two are never going to be valid, plus there's also the fact that your assertion that Sidious > Bane is thus far completely unsupported (see above).

As far as power showings are concerned, Bane's shown to be able to absorb force lightning being generated by a number of Sith Lords, that eventually reached such a level where it was stated that the power would have been able to destroy the entire planet of Ruusan. He's then able to contain all of the energy without getting torn apart by it, and proceeds to direct it across the entire planet. That alone is a display of power and mastery beyond anything Sidious ever does. He's logically more powerful than DE Sidious, let alone the much weaker PT incarnation.



If you're trying to insinuate that Yoda would be able to use telekinesis against Bane like he would any other regular human (and tell me if you are), I'll only be too happy to directly quote one of your essays on how force users are able to resist the force attacks of others.



As can be seen, unproven.



If you're referring to what's said in the Revenge of the Sith novelisation (which is the only source that might appear to directly state as much), here's the exact passage:

This is Dooku, Darth Tyranus, Count of Serenno:

Once a great Jedi Master, now an even greater Lord of the Sith, Dooku is a dark colossus bestriding the galaxy. Nemesis of the corrupt Republic, oriflamme of the principled Confederacy of Independent Systems, he is the very personification of shock and awe.

He was one of the most respected and powerful Jedi in the Order's twenty-five-thousand-year history, yet at the age of seventy Dooku's principles would no longer allow him to serve a Republic in which political power was for sale to the highest bidder. He'd said farewell to his former Padawan, Qui-Gon Jinn, now a legendary Master in his own right; he'd said farewell to his close friends on the Jedi Council, Mace Windu and the ancient Master Yoda; he'd said farewell to the Jedi Order itself.

He is numbered among the Lost: the Jedi who renounced their fealty to the Order and resigned their commissions of Jedi Knighthood in service of ideals higher than even the Order itself professed. The Lost Twenty, as they have been known since Dooku joined their number, are remembered with both honor and regret among the Jedi; their images, sculpted from bronzium, stand enshrined in the Temple archives.

These bronzium images serve as melancholy reminders that some Jedi have needs the Order cannot satisfy.

Dooku had retired to his family estate, the planetary system of Serenno. Assuming his hereditary title as its Count made him one of the wealthiest beings in the galaxy. Amid the unabashed corruption endemic to the Republic, his immense wealth could have bought the allegiance of any given number of Senators; he could, perhaps, have bought control of the Republic itself.

But a man of such heritage, such principle, could never stoop to be lord of a garbage heap, chief of a horde of scavengers squabbling over scraps; the Republic, to him, was nothing more than this.

Instead, he used all the great power of his family fortune-and the vastly greater power of his unquestioned integrity-to begin the cleansing of the galaxy from the fester of this so-called democracy.

He is the icon of the Separatist movement, its public face. He is to the Confederacy of Independent Systems what Palpatine is to the Republic: the living symbol of the justice of its cause.

This is the public story.

This is the story that even Dooku, in his weaker moments, almost believes.

The truth is more complicated.

Dooku is ... different.

So as can be seen, the entire passage (beginning with "This is Dooku" and ending with "This is the public story" obviously given the repetition) is quite clearly - rather than something factually stated directly from the omniscient narrator - what the Public of the time believed the story to be.

To quote you: "Since when do character thoughts mean anything?"



Lol, Nai. More like, happens to come to such a belief after seeing, what's hinted at possibly being, a force induced vision, the accuracy of which is never elaborated on. Point being, Dooku didn't form such a conclusion based on how Yoda was able to fight against him, which is quite clearly how you were trying to make it out to be.



Right, because Kas'im (who the much weaker Bane that had yet to obtain the orbalisk armour was able to overwhelm on equal footing), stated to have mastered and spent years perfecting every single form of the lightsaber, and to possibly be the greatest swordsman there had ever been up until that time, who was strong enough in the force to defend himself against an attack that was powerful enough to "shatter every bone in body and pulverize his flesh into a mass of pulpy liquid," and who wielded one saber as if he had five of them, is an absolute child compared to Yoda. I mean, Yoda was only the guy who sat on his ass all day and was so out of practise with the ligthsaber that Jedi around the temple hadn't ever seen him with one (Source: Power of the Jedi Sourcebook, Yoda's section), and struggled with preventing the fall of a pillar with telekinesis. Man, that guy sure is one God when up against Kas'im. You're absolutely correct Nai.



Despite not ever matching him in terms of force displays (refer to what Yoda does during the BoD's force storm ritual)?

MutantMessiah
In a demonstration shown to padawans, rather than a real life battle scenario, absolutely. The point was to show the padawans that force mastery would be a far greater strength than sheer battle adeptness. Prove that the Jedi would have had a problem with planning the demonstration beforehand with the aim to exaggerate the strengths behind sheer force mastery, or drop the point.

Also, those last two points? Irrelevant. Them being master swordsman (I'd like some poof, by the way) does not add to the difficulty of dodging their attacks, where on their part, speed would be the only factor, and neither would Depa's adeptness with Vaapad.



Irrelevant. Holding a weapon in his hand wouldn't make it any easier for him to dodge their attacks.



Wonderful. Bane was capable of moving at speeds where his lightsaber was described as appearing to be (to the eyes of force users) everywhere at once, where he appeared to be wielding twelve saber at once (to the eyes of the ridiculously powerful Zannah), and so fast that time appeared to stop for all the powerful force user around him (which included Kas'im), where he was able to move so much greater than what they could see.



Laughable, given Bane's superior displays in speed, and with the force.



Sure, let's just pretend that sheer age for a Jedi Master absolutely correlates with their experience with a lightsaber, and ignore the fact that Yoda was mostly out of practise by the time period we're dealing with.



Which pails is comparison to the way in which Bane overwhelms Kas'im, who is logically easily above Yoda.



Right, absolutely Nai. Except for the fact that PoD Bane would likely easily defeat Yoda given the way he dominates against Yoda's logical superior, Kas'im. Factor in the obvious improvements in force and lightsaber refinement that Bane went through ten years after PoD, as well as the benefits of the orbalisk armour (near perfect protection, and enhancements to Bane's physical attributes, force strength, energy levels, and senses) as well as the fact that Bane's natural style would be unfamiliar to Yoda (the way Bane grips his saber hilt and angles his blade gives him a unique style that would be unfamiliar to everyone except Kas'im) as would be the way he fights with his orbalisk armour, where he can use parts of his body to defend himself against Yoda's attacks, can take a near fully offensive stance in battle, and can integrate melee attacks into his style like no other, and Ro2 Bane would logically be able to decimate Yoda. Nice not-knowing what you're talking about, though. Truly.

MutantMessiah
Originally posted by MadMel
not to mention yoda mastered every saber form (perfecting ataru)

Not ever shown or stated in canon.

MadMel
before i get back to debating, i want you to answer me these..
do you enjoy getting constantly owned??
do you get some twisted thrill in getting banned over and over??
why do you come back, when it is clear nobody wants you here??

Darth Exodus
Even if he is, Power is not absolute. As seen in:
Anakin v Obi won
Yoda v Dooku
Mace v Grievous
Kun v Qel-Droma
etc....

MadMel
edit

MutantMessiah
Originally posted by MadMel
before i get back to debating, i want you to answer me these..
do you enjoy getting constantly owned??
do you get some twisted thrill in getting banned over and over??
why do you come back, when it is clear nobody wants you here??

Translation: Before I get back to debating inserting absolutely imaginary pieces of information and adding lame smilies at the end of my posts that make me look like a woman, I will proceed to commit a Fallacy of many questions like a moron.

Now here's a question for you MadMel: why, in your opinion, do you think that nobody of importance here even acknowledges your existence, whereas the widely considered two best debaters here, Gideon and Advent, have both recognised me as a logical debater? Tell me Melanie, why exactly is that?

MutantMessiah
Just to correct a few points from my reply to Nai:



^ The above was supposed to come out as:

Please. When you have fighters as different as Bane (hint: his orbalisk armour, and the way he fights with it) and Sidious are, ABC arguments involving the two are never going to be valid, plus there's also the fact that your assertion that Sidious > Bane is thus far completely unsupported (see above).



^ The above was supposed to come out as:

Despite not ever matching him in terms of force displays (refer to what Bane does during the BoD's force storm ritual)?



^ The above was supposed to come out as:

In a demonstration shown to padawans, rather than a real life battle scenario, absolutely. The point was to show the padawans that force mastery would be a far greater strength than sheer battle adeptness. Prove that the Jedi would have had a problem with planning the demonstration beforehand with the aim to exaggerate the strengths behind sheer force mastery, to further drive the point through to the padawans, or drop the point.



On that note, I feel like I am becoming more like Advent every day. laughing out loud

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by MutantMessiah
Just to correct a few points from my reply to Nai:



^ The above was supposed to come out as:

Please. When you have fighters as different as Bane (hint: his orbalisk armour, and the way he fights with it) and Sidious are, ABC arguments involving the two are never going to be valid, plus there's also the fact that your assertion that Sidious > Bane is thus far completely unsupported (see above).



^ The above was supposed to come out as:

Despite not ever matching him in terms of force displays (refer to what Bane does during the BoD's force storm ritual)?



^ The above was supposed to come out as:

In a demonstration shown to padawans, rather than a real life battle scenario, absolutely. The point was to show the padawans that force mastery would be a far greater strength than sheer battle adeptness. Prove that the Jedi would have had a problem with planning the demonstration beforehand with the aim to exaggerate the strengths behind sheer force mastery, to further drive the point through to the padawans, or drop the point.



On that note, I feel like I am becoming more like Advent every day. laughing out loud

But you're not Noobaris. You've yet to win a debate and you're the worst debater on this forum. You've been banned more than 30 times and you just keep on embarassing yourself. All of your points have been defeated so we just laugh everytime you post.. Enjoy another ban.

Darth Exodus
Yeah........ what he said.

I think that I both like and dislike you at the same time Mutatmessiah ( or what ever) because you both back me up smile and totally outclass me at the same time. sad

Oh well, I'm young. I've got time. geek zorro

Darth Exodus
And since when has Zannah been "ridiculuosly powerful"?

Darth Sexy
How many socks do you have Noobaris? ANd no, you've been wtfpwned again.

Darth Exodus
How many brain cells do you have Sexy? And no, You've been wtfpwned again.
I.
AM.
NOT.
NEBERIS. miffed

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
How many brain cells do you have Sexy? And no, You've been wtfpwned again.
I.
AM.
NOT.
NEBERIS. miffed

Actually only Noobaris goes through a great deal of denial after getting pwned in an argument. You, like Noobaris (assuming you aren't him), have been pwned in every debate. Try again. big grin

Darth Exodus
One hardly fits in to 'every debate'.

Darth Sexy
And I rest my case... Now...

http://www.nondot.org/~kungfoomaster/pictures/stfu_noob.jpg

MutantMessiah
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
But you're not Noobaris. You've yet to win a debate and you're the worst debater on this forum. You've been banned more than 30 times and you just keep on embarassing yourself. All of your points have been defeated so we just laugh everytime you post.. Enjoy another ban.

Sure thing Darth Repetitive.

Darth Sexy
http://guigo666.free.fr/comic/conneries/you're%20a%20homo.jpg

Borbarad
Originally posted by MutantMessiah
If you're referring to what's said in the Dark Side Sourcebook (which is the only source that might appear to directly state as much), here's the exact passage:

When the Sith finally emerged from a thousand years of watching and waiting, they numbered in accordance with the tradition set down by Darth Bane, only two. The most powerful of these was Darth Sidious, an ice-cold, diabolically calculating genius equipped with the strengths of the dark side of the Force, as well as an enormous wealth of Sith artifacts, equipment, and knowledge. Perhaps the best weapon in his arsenal was his keen understanding of galactic politics, and his seemingly unlimited ability to engineer situations that ultimately served to further empower the sith.'

As can be seen, whether Palpatine is being stated to be the most powerful of the entire Sith Order that had been "watching and waiting ," or the two then current Sith that had "finally emerged" is extremely vague. Not to mention, given the context, where Palpatine's intelligence, understanding of politics, and ability to manipulate situations to his advantage are all elaborated on directly after Palpatine is described as "The most powerful," the exact meaning of "powerful" in this case is up for interpretation. Either way, it's your burden of proof, so either prove that the quote perfectly fits your interpretation, or drop the point.

Please. When you have fighters as different as Bane (hint: his orbalisk armour, and the way he fights with it) and Sidious do, ABC arguments involving the two are never going to be valid, plus there's also the fact that your assertion that Sidious > Bane is thus far completely unsupported (see above).

Oh...
"The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day."

This actually shows a development in the Sith Order that started with Bane and culminated in the figure of Sidious. It's an ascension in terms of force knowledge and, with that, force power. An undenyable fact. Hell. We could even use a bit of common sense here. Sidious had access to everything that Bane gathered + the stuff discovered in a thousand years by the Sith and handed down from master to apprentice. Then you have his own studies in addition which included the study of rather "uncommon" force users. It's simply not questionable that Sidious has more knowledge up his sleeve than Bane could possibly have.

We could add Sidious' own display of force powers or battle prowess here. And then one might ask the question how Bane does even remotely compare to Sidious. What has Bane ever done except owning a few deluded Sith Lords who were too proud to accept the teachings of the Ancient Sith and as smart as a dead starfish? Sure. Bane was the most powerful figure in his own time but still far away from Sidious knowledge, combat prowess or the track record of the movies DLotS.



Woah. He didn't absorb force lightning. He did just channel the combined force energy of those Sith Lords. It's not as if he was attacked by them and simply stood there with a grin on his face, yelling "Yo,freaks. You can't mess with the best." It's basically the same that Dorskk-81 did with Luke's students to drive a fleet of enemy starships out of Yavin's solar system.



LMAO.
Excuse me, friend. You have, of course, read the DE comics and you are, of course, aware of the fact that Sidious alone produced more devastating effects with his force storms, right? That without needing another 20 Sith Lords to grant him their power to archieve something like that? The mere fact that it wasn't Bane alone turns your "logical" conclusion into a joke.



Nope. I was just describing power levels here. What did Bane do on his own with the force? Really. He managed to collapse the entrance of a temple (the chain reaction did destroy the rest of the building). Yoda lifted the remains of a mountain sized temple up and force pushed CIS landing vessels around. I'd say that Yoda is quite some levels above Bane when it comes to force mastery / knowledge. So is Sidious. And, if I may remind you, Yoda did quite well in force pushing the Darth Lord of the Sith straight across his office and have him fly over his desk in RotS. So apparently he's very well able to apply such power on force users.



Urm. No. I was referring to various statements about Dooku given by the omniscient narrator as well as other Jedi from the Order (including Mace, Yoda and Jocasta Nu). Dooku was one of the most powerful beings (force wise) that the Jedi Order has produced in the past centuries at last if not in it's entire history (both are quotes given about Dooku). His mastery of form II descriped as the "ultimate refinement of lightsaber to lightsaber combat" and the fact that only Mace and Yoda have ever bested him (before RotS that is) in duels speak quite a lot about his blade mastery.

Yet still Yoda bested him twice...in Dark Rendevouz he even does so on a place completely dominated by the Dark Side while levitating a person mid-air. Yoda is definetely superior to Dooku who happens to be one of the orders best students ever.



Logically spoken you don't even need Dooku's comment to reach such a conclusion. The point is that Yoda can defend himself against most Dark Side techniques, even against somebody more powerful than Dooku and this without using "agressive" force techniques himself. In the RotS movie you can even see how Yoda is about to defeat Sidious by just throwing the attacks of the Sith Lord back at him (this is before both are blown away by the force energies blowing up between them).




Wow. It's astonishing how you completely ignore Kas'ims own comments on how all that training is useless compared to a connection with the force that allows Bane to predict his movements and react to them properly, even without knowing the corresponding manouvers.

Yoda had 900 years (or let's say 850) to perfect the art of lightsaber combat - quite a bit more than Kas'im had and he was perfectly able to defend himself against force attack that instantly killed other force users (Sidious lightning). And wow...force attacks able to destroy bones. Watch the Clone War cartoons. You can see minor Jedi leaving dents in ferrocrete walls with their force push attacks, Dooku crushes solid metal constructions twices (AotC, RotS) and you think that Bane's little attack (damaging a 30,000 year old stone temple) was anything special - or the ability of Kas'im to defend himself against that? Rather funny.

Borbarad
Lmao. He obviously was so out of practice with a lightsaber that he did defeat Dooku in a sparring match before TPM. Urm. He was so out of practice with a lightsaber, that it was him who gave the Padawans the basic instructions in AotC, right? He was so out of practice with a lightsaber, that he defeated Dooku - who was notorious with keeping his skills up in that department and who can be seen practicing and fighting against several opponents over the PT period and who kept handing Anakin and Obi-Wan (who practiced thousands of hours against each other) their asses - twice. Yes. Sounds like the guy is completely out of practice. Silly me.

And god did he struggle with that pillar. Oh wait. Because he makes some grimasses? One could, of course, assume that he did need a little bit of skill to move across the battlefield first (notice how he arrives in the hangar far before the Clone Troopers), then fight one of the best duellist the order has ever produced. Apparently he doesn't have problems with far greater force use displayed during various sources in the PT. So let's just go by this one freaking instance and by your personal interpretation of the scene - because I don't remember somebody (or a source) saying that Yoda did struggle with the weight of that pillar. Despite the fact that he rather easily moved greater and heavier objects around.



I think you mean "what Bane does" and he does exactly the same that Dorskk-81 does when the Jedi are channeling their power. Do you think that a fairly untrained person that did study under Luke for a few months is capable of taking it up with Yoda? Because that's essentially what you're saying here.

Originally posted by MutantMessiah
In a demonstration shown to padawans, rather than a real life battle scenario, absolutely. The point was to show the padawans that force mastery would be a far greater strength than sheer battle adeptness. Prove that the Jedi would have had a problem with planning the demonstration beforehand with the aim to exaggerate the strengths behind sheer force mastery, or drop the point.


Did you watch the movies, pal? Watch Yoda fighting. In the overwhelming majority of situations he's not even in the need to parry the swings of his opponents because they are in most cases not even close to hit him. Why? Because Yoda does exactly the same he does in that demonstration - avoiding opponents through his force mastery.

But we could push this even further. Watch the scene where Obi-Wan and Yoda fight their way to the Jedi Temple in RotS. Yoda deflects more than 40 blaster bolts in less than 4 seconds, aimed at him from 7 different ankles and even finds the time to redirect one of these shots so precisely that it kills one of the Clone Troopers. And you want to tell me that Bane is going to hit him somehow? Nice idea.



You like to have proof that Depa Billaba is a master swordsman...?
Just to paint a nice image of the situation: You have Yoda standing there...you have three people attacking him with "all they have" and he simply avoids them while "it seemed as if he hardly moved a metre". Of course this might be a nice choreographed scene to explain something to the Padawans. Yet...does that sound like something Yoda would come up with if you consider the methods he trained Luke Skywalker with? Hardly.



What powerful force users are you talking about? I'm still looking for some proof that one single member of the BoD (with Bane being the only exception here) was "powerful". In their time? Maybe. In the greater scheme of things? Hardly. You're glorious attempts to say "they are powerful" based on nothing doesn't change that.

And what? Mace Windu was so fast that his movements where "invisible" to a ridiculous powerful force user like Kar Vastor. In fact Mace was capable to hit Vastor six times before the guy could even blink. And guess what? Yoda is faster. Or to use Lucas own words:
"Words are insufficient to describe the range and skill of Yoda's speed and swordplay. His lightsaber his a humming blur of light." (AotC script) There are words to descripe Bane's skill, huh?



Which did both just happen in your Bane Fanboy Fantasy so I guess that doesn't count as "argument".



Let's ignore the "fact" that Yoda in the time we're dealing with (RotS) has just spend three years leading missions in the Clone Wars which translates into "fighting". Right before TPM we had the Ynchorrie uprising, in which Yoda did also participate in. Before that they had the Mandalorian Civil War as well as the Stark Hyperspace war. That aside from countless missions our green friend might have been in. Yet, somehow, he's "out of practice" because the regular students in the Jedi Temple haven't seen him using a lightsaber for a long time? Despite the fact that the on panel evidence given in various sources show us something completely different? Nice talk, dude. Go and do your homework before you start typing.



Wow. Let's not forget that Bane hardly managed to escape from the temple when Kas'im used a style that he hadn't seen before. Basically Kas'im kicks him across the place and just gets owned because Bane - in a desperate move - does collapse the temple partitially.

And how would Kas'im be "easily above Yoda"? Because he spend some decades studying the art of lightsaber combat? Dooku did the same for an even longer time period. His comments in the RotS novel show, how good he knows the different lightsaber forms and their respective weak points. We all saw how "superior" he is to the little Jedi Master when it comes to lightsaber combat, didn't we? Mace Windu is another example for a multiple-form expert and he's also not capable of defeating Yoda. The same could be said about Sidious. Apparently it doesn't matter much how many forms you know.



Urm? Did you read the same book that I have had before my eyes? It's Kas'im that totally dominates the fight and is about to kill Bane before your famed hero uses his superior force potential to collapse a part of the temple. That aside from Kas'im being Yoda's superior is absolute nonsense.



Sure thing, thou great enlightened person.

You are talking about the famed curved hilt design that Bane is using? Wait...can it be that this is the very same design that Dooku prefers? Yoda's former Padawan? The guy he defeated twice? Uhhh...so much for that "advantage".

The orbalisks? You mean the same creatures that started poisoning and weaken him if they were hurt (e.g. by throwing Bane's own lightning back into his face - Yoda's speciality)? Of course we can also ignore the little point saying that the joint places of the orbalisk are vunerable - especially for Yoda who uses a smaller scale lightsaber.

This while Bane has to fight against a very tiny opponent that uses a lightsaber style which focuses on mad muppet aireal accrobatics.

Darth Sexy
Pwned again Noobaris. This is a daily routine for you.

MadMel
Originally posted by MutantMessiah
Translation: Before I get back to debating inserting absolutely imaginary pieces of information and adding lame smilies at the end of my posts that make me look like a woman insults? thats the best you can come up with? i was kinda expecting an answer..
Originally posted by MutantMessiah
I will proceed to commit a Fallacy of many questions like a moron. it appears all you can do is insult people..i guess 30+ bans hasnt improved your manners erm

Originally posted by MutantMessiah
Now here's a question for you MadMel: why, in your opinion, do you think that nobody of importance here even acknowledges your existence, whereas the widely considered two best debaters here, Gideon and Advent, have both recognised me as a logical debater? Tell me Melanie, why exactly is that?
1. its not melanie..dont try to guess peoples real names by their screenames..
2. there is a difference between being new to the SW vs. section than being ignored..prove that i am not acknowledged here erm
3. i know advent said that, but im not so sure about gideon, i thought he just said you arent stupid..
you have still failed to answer my questions...all you managed to accomplish was insult me erm

Darth Exodus
What a depressing waste of words.



Can I ask you a serious question? Do you actually think that you contribute to these discussion's at all?
Because at the moment your rating even lower in my eyes than MadMel(no offence to him) and you have been here for about 3 years longer than him. If this is the best that you can do then I really surgest that you just give up and quit.
erm erm

Darth Sexy
Noobaris, I've defeated your every argument since youve been here. I don't need to contribute any more because you rehash the same defeated bullshit. You're a broken record. Enjoy the ban..

Darth Exodus
The Sad thing is that I'm not actually Neberis. You're just really over the top paranoid.
You are American so I guess its not your fault though....

Darth Sexy
Are you still typing? Haven't you embarassed yourself enough?

Darth Exodus
Not yet....

MutantMessiah
Originally posted by MadMel
insults? thats the best you can come up with? i was kinda expecting an answer..
it appears all you can do is insult people..i guess 30+ bans hasnt improved your manners erm

There's no need to get upset Melanie..if I recall correctly you were one of those nobodies who started bitching about me before I'd even ever spoken to you..and you were the first to turn to insults in this thread.. difference being that I laugh at you when you hand them out..and you burst into tears when you get them handed to you erm



Melanie..nobody here even knows who you are..Gideon's exact words were "very intelligent"..and Advent's the widely considred best debater here erm



I already explained why..I don't respond to Fallacies of many questions erm

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by MutantMessiah
There's no need to get upset Melanie..if I recall correctly you were one of those nobodies who started bitching about me before I'd even ever spoken to you..and you were the first to turn to insults in this thread.. difference being that I laugh at you when you hand them out..and you burst into tears when you get them handed to you erm



Melanie..nobody here even knows who you are..Gideon's exact words were "very intelligent"..and Advent's the widely considred best debater here erm



I already explained why..I don't respond to Fallacies of many questions erm

You don't respond to fallacies yet you have yet to come up with a cogent argument throughout your 30+ bans... Interesting..

MutantMessiah

MutantMessiah

MutantMessiah

MutantMessiah

MutantMessiah
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You don't respond to fallacies yet you have yet to come up with a cogent argument throughout your 30+ bans... Interesting..

Wow, you waited an entire minute this time. laughing out loud

That must have been hard.

MadMel
Originally posted by MutantMessiah
Melanie
*hint* its not my name roll eyes (sarcastic)

Darth Exodus
Do you guys ever sleep?
How come your all still up at 6 in the morning?

Oh wait. Time difference. Yeah.....

Darth Exodus
Judging from Mutant Messiah's points its clear that Bane overwelms Yoda with the Force.

Darth Exodus
To back up my allies points


As seen when he effortlessly demolised the mighty Rancour, something that the "saber God" Skywalker was too scared to even attempt. The only one who even mildly equates to Kas'im was Tulak Hord and we only have one statement from Kriea on his skill. She is one tough lady(loosely) to impress though.



Which is irrelevant considering that, by the grace of Revan, Bane can completley resist all poisons. The only reason that he didn't do this in the first place was because he was rendered unconcious by his own power.


Whose greatest shown feat of power was when he ripped that balcony of the wall(clumsily) in ROTS.
I'm pretty sure that even that wasn't his doing (Sisious)



Which makes him actually more perfetic really. Given that Kas'im was the best ever and that Bane was able to demolish him after only about a year of training (as opposed to Yoda's 850 at the end of which he struggled against Dooku who Anakin beat simply by wanting to). Add on to that his extra 10 years of training with his extreme learning rate and Bane actually does rape him ( he is sick after all)



Good point. If the Chancellor did practise during that time wouldn't the Jedi be able to sense his use of the Force?

Darth Sexy
Enjoy the ban to you and your sock Noobaris, you still can't debate.

Darth Exodus
WOW. You ARE repetative.Congrats, thats a skill that is.

Darth Sexy
Thanks NOobaris..

BaneOfJedi700
HOOOOOLD ONNN! Sidious superior to Bane? nooooooooo. Bane was the guy who single-handedly bought back the sith order during The Great Sith wars. Sidious is a pimple compared to Bane.

Darth Exodus
I know. I know.
Bane does rock.
Also his fast, strong Djem So would wipe the floor with Yoda's Ataru

Gideon
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
I know. I know.
Bane does rock.
Also his fast, strong Djem So would wipe the floor with Yoda's Ataru

I understand that you're new to the forums, but the only people who can make claims that hold as much weight as God-given-fact are very few; I happen to be one of them, you're not. You need to support your assertions.

BaneOfJedi700
OK, off-topic neways. Bane wins hands down.

Borbarad
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
To back up my allies points

I love wasting my precious free-time with you, no matter what name you currently use for posting, N00baris.



Great comparison, dude.
You did, of course, notice that Luke Skywalker didn't even have a lightsaber in the situation in ROTJ you are talking about, correct? Remember how it was hidden inside R2-D2? I'd really love to see Kas'im downing the Rancor with bare hands. This after just having gone through six months of Jedi training (which would be equal to what Luke had at the mentioned point in time).

Aside of that: Compare a Rancor to a Leviathan, think about the fact that Kyp Durron was capable of killing one without a lightsaber, and then come talk to me again about uber saber fame. It really needs uber skill to slaughter a mindless beast with a weapon that cuts through everything.



Awww. Yes. This is why they had to remove those nice little Orbalisk from Bane who was actually nearly killed in the process? Talking bullshit much, eh?



Urm. Sure. I wonder how did rip apart that nice metal pillar in AotC and tossed it on Obi-Wan and Anakin. Dooku maybe? Oh, yes. That aside owning people in force contest with a mere gesture (Asajj Ventress, Obi-Wan) or ripping parts out of solid stone (at least - if not ferrocrete) buildings (in AotC he attempts this on Yoda - in "Trackdown" he does the same with Tholme).

But the mere idea that Sidious could have done the work for him in RotS qualifies you for the Olymp of Stupidity. I mean hey...you think both Jedi in the room (at least Anakin - who was still standing) wouldn't have realized if some "third party" would have intereferred there? That aside from the fact that we have this nice little RotS novel that tells us that it...erm...was Dooku. Great thinking on your part.



Kas'im wasn't the best ever. Otherwise Bane wouldn't have bested him, punk. Logical reasoning escapes your grasp, doesn't it? Kas'im might have been notorious in his lightsaber training. That means what? Kas'im might be in his 40s. Dooku trained equally hard - and is 80 years old. Is he better than Kas'im, probably, especially considering that you have various sources mentioning that training in different techniques (which is the basis for form VI) makes you a versatile fighter but you would lack a real mastery of one form (since all of them are linked to certain philosophies and mindsets). Thus, I think, the master of the "ultimate refinement of lightsaber to lightsaber combat" might actually be better than some punk who learned all styles - especially since the same punk was training all his students in all styles. We saw how great those Sith were in lightsaber duels, didn't we?



Did you miss the entire "the force is clouded by the Dark Side" stuff appearing in the movies as well as in various other sources? If you want to view the comic "Sithisis" as canon, he was even capable of performing full-scale Sith rituals on Coruscant without the Jedi noticing. That aside from the fact that you can't really track the use of the force on a planet that is filled with several thousands of force users (Jedi Temple).

Aside of that: He was obviously in a shape good enough with that weapon to kill 3 Jedi Masters in a blink (even though he did surprise them to a certain extend) and keep up duelling with Mace Windu for a brief period of time.



Urm. Sure. That's why every elitist Djem So practioneer in the Jedi Order was inable to even think about defeating Yoda, correct? Notice how Sidious thinks that, had Yoda faced Anakin as he was in RotS (Dooku noting that Anakin was the "finest Djem So practicioneer he has ever seen"wink, Yoda would have totally freaking owned Skywalker. So much for this. One style doesn't give you a general advantage against other styles. Especially since the natural disadvantages of Ataru (being an easy target after accrobatics) don't count for Yoda.

Anything else to say, wise guy?

@Gideon: Nice post. "Owned", I'd say...

0°Mandalore°0
Originally posted by BaneOfJedi700
OK, off-topic neways. Bane wins hands down.

I understand you're new, and that's why I don't think you're an idiot. But here we tend to provide (solid) proof of some sort when we type up such bold statements.

BaneOfJedi700
okay i'll give you my view: okay Yoda was forced into exile because he failed to kill Palpatine/Sidious. It was a dem close match but Sidious won. If Sidious could beat Yoda with a mix of his force & saber skills, why couldn't a younger, more Hate-consumed being who single-handedly managed to destroy the so-called sith during the Great Sith Wars kick his arse in a 1v1

0°Mandalore°0
You said it. 'So-called Sith', they were no challenge for someone like Bane.
What does the fact that he was forced into exile has to do with his strength? Besides, take a look at the setting. Don't you think Yoda would've had a better chance at a different place?
Awright, why couldn't a younger, more hate-consumed (I hardly believe anyone would have more hatred than Sids, btw) guy such as Bane defeat him? Because he has not proven anything just yet which puts him in the same league as Yoda.

Borbarad
Originally posted by BaneOfJedi700
okay i'll give you my view: okay Yoda was forced into exile because he failed to kill Palpatine/Sidious. It was a dem close match but Sidious won. If Sidious could beat Yoda with a mix of his force & saber skills, why couldn't a younger, more Hate-consumed being who single-handedly managed to destroy the so-called sith during the Great Sith Wars kick his arse in a 1v1

Oh my. Is that you trying to tell me that Bane > Sidious because he managed to have the BoD destroy themselves by handing them something they thought to be the ultimate weapon against the Jedi?

Great God.

Returning an argument in the same fashion would be saying that Sidious did bring down the entire Jedi Order (thousands) and the Republic (millions of worlds) on his own with similar schemes.

Conclusion in the realm of your logic:
Sidious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bane

Really. Try to make an argument based on logic or STFU. I'm not interested in your mere opinion. If I was, I'd tell you which one I'd like to hear.

Darth Exodus
The same way that Bane did: by smushing its brain into fallafles.
Ka'sim actually says that he could do this but he wanted a 'warm-up'



Which is about the same amount as Bane had.


Aside from dodging massive claws, huge fangs and , i think i'm right in saying, poison. And tha fact that the Rancour was the most fearsom beast out there bars the Krayt dragons.

Darth Exodus
Actually he said ,' as fine a one as he had ever seen'.



Awww. Yes. This was because he was unconcious at the time. By the time he woke up the damage was done. Ignoring facts much, eh?



No. Thats becuase its so hard to even imagine that small ball of snot even fighting. He did have arthritus after all.
And non one in the order had even seen him fight in their life times.

Darth Exodus
It says in the book something like that if you check.
And Sisious would have wanted Kenobi out of the fight so Anakin would be able to get really, really pissed without his masters presence.


Does moving at invisible speeds mean nothing to you?

Borbarad
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
The same way that Bane did: by smushing its brain into fallafles.
Ka'sim actually says that he could do this but he wanted a 'warm-up'


Again: This still is Luke after some days (weeks at best) of actual training and after reading Obi-Wan's diary for another six months. Do you want to compare RotJ Luke to Yoda?



Urm. No. Because Bane did go through extensive training each day. If you consider that as "training" Luke, as he is in RotJ, just had days or maybe some weeks - the time he did spent with Yoda. Simply not compareable. And still RotJ Luke isn't Yoda.



Since when do Rancors possess poison? Those things are outright lame and clumsy beyond believe. Just watch the thing in RotJ moving. It's not that this things are super fast killing machines or any challenge for a fully trained force user.



And he was unconcious because the poison did knock him out. So much for "ignoring facts", hmm?



Sure. That's why he does actually fight in various sources during the PT. You did notice his three years of frontline action in the Clone Wars right before RotS, right? Repeating already defeated points doesn't make them any better.



It says: Come up with quotes or STFU noob.



Yes. Hence why Dooku did take Kenobi out of the fight. Really...



Doesn't it get into your head? The same was done by Mace Windu. And Yoda is still faster than that. I may once again repeat for you: The small guy deflected more than 40 Blaster bolts shot at him from seven different ankles in less than 4 seconds (RotS movie - highest form of canon) with apparent ease. You think Bane could do that? I highly doubt it.

Darth Exodus
No. It was the lightning that knocked him out. Since when has poison knocked people unconcious.

Borbarad
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
No. It was the lightning that knocked him out. Since when has poison knocked people unconcious.

There are quite many substances that can be called "poison" and do knock people out, mate. Aside of that - since when does force lightning knock people out over the time period of several days?

And by the way: That little incident doesn't make Bane look that great. I mean...he wasn't able to repel his own force lightning again (Dooku was capable of doing that in AotC when he had his own lightning thrown back into his face by Yoda) and if it was his own lightning that knocked him out....well...Yoda did take a full barrage of lightning from Sidious and was back on his feet a minute after that. And this aside from getting owned by a Jedi who was already on the ground and about to die. Indeed powerful the almighty Bane. roll eyes (sarcastic)

E-Hotshot
Originally posted by Borbarad
I love wasting my precious free-time with you, no matter what name you currently use for posting, N00baris.

Nai, if you seriously believe that Exodus and Nebaris are the same person, than I can only assume that you're either a fascistcrusader level sheep, or an extremely unperceptive person. Either way, well done trying to prove him wrong by replying to a completely different person. Seriously, wonderful job! thumb up

Borbarad
Originally posted by E-Hotshot
Nai, if you seriously believe that Exodus and Nebaris are the same person, than I can only assume that you're either a fascistcrusader level sheep, or an extremely unperceptive person. Either way, well done trying to prove him wrong by replying to a completely different person. Seriously, wonderful job! thumb up

That of course affects the validity of the basic argument...not.

Thanks for producing another pointless post. +1? KKTHXBYE.

fascistcrusader
fascistcrusader level sheep

Sheep, or just plain awesome?

Ivalice
Great! I'm going to get banned.

Elite Hunter
Why?

E-Hotshot
Originally posted by Borbarad
That of course affects the validity of the basic argument...not.

There's a reason why the Argument ad logicam is a logical fallacy, Nai. Essentially, a poor argument does not necessarily make the conclusion itself a bad one.

Now, reply to the real Nebaris, or quit b1tching about him.

Borbarad
Originally posted by E-Hotshot
There's a reason why the Argument ad logicam is a logical fallacy, Nai.


Oh my. Go back to school, kid. An "argumentum ad logicam" is a logical fallacy. Yes. Care to point out where I commited one? You know...questioning the validity of somebodies "arguments" doesn't involve questioning his conclusion.



Which nobody did say, eh? The point is that if you don't have any argument to back up your "conclusion" (which is a funny word for something based on nothing...a conclusion would be something that follows after something else), you could as well just type down: "Oh well. Without any reason I think Bane rocks all."

So thanks for another nonsensical line tossed into the "debate".



OMG. Noob uses imperative on me. I'm scared to death. I'll gladly return that favor: If you don't have anything to say, don't hit the reply button. Saves you from lots of embaressing situations, occassional bashing and generally looking like an idiot. But some people, as we all know, do never learn. Correct? roll eyes (sarcastic)

E-Hotshot
Originally posted by Borbarad
Oh my. Go back to school, kid. An "argumentum ad logicam" is a logical fallacy.

Oh my. Go home, old man. How and when I switch between the English and the Latin is completely up to me, so your use of the italic font there was very much pointless.



Nobody said you committed one, Nai, but you were following the same line of illogic, making out like it didn't matter who exactly you replied to, as the "basic argument" (which, in the context that you gave it in, quite clearly meant conclusion) - that Bane wins - remained the same, whilst ignoring that different people will argue a case differently, and that the quality of the argument does not fully dictate the validity of the conclusion.



Lol. Nai, when people say "The point is," they usually elaborate on what they were saying; they don't completely change the subject... Which is what you do every time.

The point is (this is how the pros use the term), you should have stayed awake in your English Language lessons.



You're "welcome."



That's Noobaris to you, Nai.



You should be. The N-Man is one Grade A Gangster.



Sorry, I don't take "imperatives." Now, do what you're told. As soon as you manage to reply to MM's four post ownage, which can be seen on page 5 of this thread, I'll let you go back to your b1tching. Until then, I forbid it.

Borbarad
Originally posted by E-Hotshot
Oh my. Go home, old man. How and when I switch between the English and the Latin is completely up to me, so your use of the italic font there was very much pointless.

Not when using defined terms, boring nobody.



You need to get a grasp on the concept of a debate. I won't react to things which don't happen (like somebody making a case for Bane).



Sure. Because the role for the guy throwing in endless repetitions is reserved for you.



Wow. Nice lecture, kid. I would care so much, if my level of education wouldn't be beyond anything that you will ever archive in your life. So my default reaction to this is: Who cares?



Oh. A surprise. Sock number 31 and Ban number 31 incoming.



I guess you meant "First Grade" - aww...no...forget that. Kindergarten.



What "ownage" you're talking about? That four posts of bullshit? I'm not that interested to dig right through it and own the same stupid points for the...dunno...20ths time? Just to have them served again some hours later. Some people with the mental capacities of a dead starfish on drugs might enjoy such funny games - I personally don't. At least not now.

Lord Knightfa11
I dont care what you say after this post or in reply to this post. This only reflects my opinion, and I dont really give a crap if you think I pulled it out of my toilet and threw it on the keyboard and it wrote this.

Yoda was said in the rots novel to be the "greatest enemy the darkness had ever known"

Sideos was said in multiple places to be the "Greatest Sith Lord in history"

Yoda Vs Sideous, therefore... pretty much is as good as it gets in lightsaber combat... seriously... best Jedi Vs Best Sith? doesnt get any better... but this is off topic... just thought about that as I was writing this down.

If you put down the simple logic that yoda overpowered Sideous in the force and turned back his own force so that it choked sideous and then got blown off of the senate pod and fell down on his little green nogin, you can probably get the idea that yoda was slightly better, but was just on the wrong side of the senate pod. Im not saying this is true, but I got this impression

therefore from this impression, that yoda might just be a little more powerful then sideous (the most powerful sith lord), and if he isnt, he came pretty dang close, combined with the fact that hes the most powerful enemy the darkness had ever known,

Yoda Uses Force Lightning to zap the orbalisks, or (notice how it says the orbalisks are resistant to lightsabers? not invincible? just a thought) he slices his unprotected little head or legs, or hits with his impecable accuracy the small gaps in his Orablisk armor.

and if you think that yoda never actually used the lightning, just flung it back and forth, he could probably just hit a load of banes lightning right back at him like in AOTC dooku.

so anyway, my opinion is that "the greatest enemy the darkness had ever known" would win... hands down...

In my other humble opinion, anyone who rootes for bane in this fight is a fanboy or a noob who doesnt know much.

Once again, I dont claim any of the above to be cannon. I dont care what you think of it, I dont want your two cents, I dont want your crappy opinion that I suck, or that I am Noobaris, or any of that dungheap.

Im not going to debate any of what I just said. you may have a different opinion, and im going to leave that to you. that is YOUR Right.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
I dont care what you say after this post or in reply to this post. This only reflects my opinion, and I dont really give a crap if you think I pulled it out of my toilet and threw it on the keyboard and it wrote this.

Yoda was said in the rots novel to be the "greatest enemy the darkness had ever known"

Sideos was said in multiple places to be the "Greatest Sith Lord in history"

Yoda Vs Sideous, therefore... pretty much is as good as it gets in lightsaber combat... seriously... best Jedi Vs Best Sith? doesnt get any better... but this is off topic... just thought about that as I was writing this down.

If you put down the simple logic that yoda overpowered Sideous in the force and turned back his own force so that it choked sideous and then got blown off of the senate pod and fell down on his little green nogin, you can probably get the idea that yoda was slightly better, but was just on the wrong side of the senate pod. Im not saying this is true, but I got this impression

therefore from this impression, that yoda might just be a little more powerful then sideous (the most powerful sith lord), and if he isnt, he came pretty dang close, combined with the fact that hes the most powerful enemy the darkness had ever known,

Yoda Uses Force Lightning to zap the orbalisks, or (notice how it says the orbalisks are resistant to lightsabers? not invincible? just a thought) he slices his unprotected little head or legs, or hits with his impecable accuracy the small gaps in his Orablisk armor.

and if you think that yoda never actually used the lightning, just flung it back and forth, he could probably just hit a load of banes lightning right back at him like in AOTC dooku.

so anyway, my opinion is that "the greatest enemy the darkness had ever known" would win... hands down...

In my other humble opinion, anyone who rootes for bane in this fight is a fanboy or a noob who doesnt know much.

Once again, I dont claim any of the above to be cannon. I dont care what you think of it, I dont want your two cents, I dont want your crappy opinion that I suck, or that I am Noobaris, or any of that dungheap.

Im not going to debate any of what I just said. you may have a different opinion, and im going to leave that to you. that is YOUR Right.

Hey ******, nobody cares about your opinion. This isn't an opinion based forum, it's a debate forum. If you don't like it, GTFO You've already been pwned enough times for a ban.

darthsith19
Sorry to but-in on this very intricate discussion, but does anyone know why Ivalice got banned, and if he will be back?


Oh and this duel would probably be pretty close, I think. I haven't read RoT yet but I am assuming that Bane is slightly stronger in it that he was at the end of PoD, but not a lot stronger.

Elite Hunter
Originally posted by darthsith19
Sorry to but-in on this very intricate discussion, but does anyone know why Ivalice got banned, and if he will be back?


He was banned in a darth nihilus thread in the videogame vs. forum. I think it is temp. but im not to sure.

Darth Exodus
Darth Bane= win
Yoda= too small

Darth Sexy
good argument, oh wait.

Gideon
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Darth Bane= win
Yoda= too small

"Too small" might be an explanation for your eternal virginity, Darth Exodus, but it's not a logical basis for Yoda's defeat.

Darth Exodus
I was pressed for time.

Blax_Hydralisk
Originally posted by Gideon
"Too small" might be an explanation for your eternal virginity, Darth Exodus, but it's not a logical basis for Yoda's defeat.

crylaugh pwn't. crylaugh

Ivalice
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
You're still not taking in to consideration the fact that there isn't much that Yoda can do to him. All he can reach is his feet and hands (both really hard to hit). Eventually Bane would beat him, if only in stamina war. Lol dumb fcuk your responding to something posted 2 months ago. Pay attention to what your responding to.

Darth Exodus
Happy birthday by the way.

Lord Knightfa11
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Hey ******, nobody cares about your opinion. This isn't an opinion based forum, it's a debate forum. If you don't like it, GTFO You've already been pwned enough times for a ban.

fine you tard. i didnt want to eternally debate FACT. if yoda is the greatest enemy the darkness had ever known, he would stomp the fanboy base we call bane almost instantly with small difficulty. seriously you take an opinion, dont argue for it, and just insult the person of the other opinion incessently. next time you try to debate take into fact that someone might make an error in presentation but their overall arguement might just be fricking true.

yoda wins. hands down. in both the force and lightsaber duel.

Lt. Valerian
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
if yoda is the greatest enemy the darkness had ever known, he would stomp the fanboy base we call bane almost instantly with small difficulty.

Wrong. Yoda is the most devastating foe the darkness had ever seen by ROTS, but that doesn't mean he annihilates any Sith before him easily. That only states the fact that Yoda is the most powerful, but it doesn't deny the fact that there are many Sith before that were very powerful and that would put up a good fight, and eventually, not easily, be defeated.

666.3
As has been established, Bane most logically owns the midget.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by 666.3
As has been established, Bane most logically owns the midget.

If by "established" you mean all of your pathetic Bane fanboy arguments have been destroyed time and time again, then you are correct. Yoda wins this.

666.3
That didn't even make sense. You may try again, but I'd suggest equipping a dictionary this time around.

Darth Sexy
Actually it made perfect sense. It's called a rebuttal to your incessant denial.

Lt. Valerian
Let me guess... he's the Nebaris you people always talk about?

Elite Hunter
yup

Lord Knightfa11
Originally posted by Lt. Valerian
Wrong. Yoda is the most devastating foe the darkness had ever seen by ROTS, but that doesn't mean he annihilates any Sith before him easily. That only states the fact that Yoda is the most powerful, but it doesn't deny the fact that there are many Sith before that were very powerful and that would put up a good fight, and eventually, not easily, be defeated.

minor technicallity. it still implies that he would kill bane... he is a fair match to sideous (the greatest sith) who pushed him off of the senate pod because he was on the wrong side. remember. the force exploded and they went flying, sideous into a wall and yoda into the ground? i would have called that a lucky strike...

now, you can debate the above, i wont. the point is, yoda wins. this is established.

Lt. Valerian
'Minor technicallity?' You've to be kidding me.

Janus Marius
Eh, I'm not so sure that Yoda will piss all over Bane. He seemed to me to be pretty damn impressive in his own right. Bane in his armor? He would definitely win. There's something grand about not having to defend yourself in combat.

Lightsnake
The issue there though is Bane's very vulnerable head and Yoda accustomed to fight much bigger opponents.

Djem So isn't ideal for taking opponents of Yoda's size, especially ones who're much faster and more agile.

Lord Knightfa11
maybe with orbalisks... remember that his head is still vulnerable. i still think yoda would win easily (no basilisks) and would have a difficult time (with basilisks) armor and toys isnt everything. and bane doesnt use a lightsaber form that is very accurate and yoda is a pretty small target. seeing that yoda just ninjad over and took a clone's head off in .03 seconds, i think that yoda would be able to take off bane's head if he didnt try somtehting wussy like converting him or reasoning wtih him.

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