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Why the FECK has SBP not seen this yet?

guess he's doing something else ?

*Nod* Keep up the Xenosaga respect.

stfu SBP, no cares 'bout you.

Or Xenosaga.

Nah, I have a question tho, is this guy a real supreme being, or just a wannabe(like Thanos with HOTI or Mephisto)?

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
or just a wannabe(like Thanos with HOTI or Mephisto)?

...or Pyron

*runs off*

U-DO is infinitely powerful as stated multiple times but he's not omniscient
you see that quite a few times in the game how he is quite ignorant of our world, having been from another dimension and all
also you could say Xenosaga is a multiverse based on what is said in official source material about other "lower domains" besides the Xenosaga universe we see in teh games

no no, he isnt IGNORANT of our world, he knows is completely, but his nature is so far beyond the confined of lower dimensional space, that he has to have avatars{abel, abel's ark} to UNDERSTAND the lower dimensional space and its limited nature. the only way to stop him from SEEING the universe is through the eternal circle zarathustra which the devil{wilhelm} intends to use to BLIND u-do and restart the whole of existance so that u-do can not consume it, this cycle was repeated nearly infinitely before shion and crew put a halt to it by destroying zarathustra.

and no, he isnt a PSUEDO god like thanos, he is a true god in every sense of the word. his power works on countless universes and existances. and apparently even seeing part of him is horrifying enough to make you wanna destroy yourself.

So the answer is he's a wannabe. If he isn't omniscient, he is not a true Supreme Being. Just curious.

^NOOOOO he IS. yet his trancendant nature stops him from giving SIGNIFICANCE to lower dimensions. hence he has avatars to try and expirience it like LOWER dimensional beings do. try to think of it like the beyonder, he is perfect and complete and trancendant in the beyond realm, yet he wanted to expirience things as imperfect beings did. ofcourse, he completely became an avatar, while only small PARTS{eyes} OF U-DO become avatars.

Not even Classic Beyonder wasa supreme being either, tho he is as close as it gets. He wasn't omniscient either, he was potentially tho. An omniscient being wouldn't need to experience what it would be like, he would already know.

T7ZQLiI_-3I

"U-DO wants to know...
You don't know? I don't know as well"

U-DO itself says it doesn't know our universe.



you are way off

"And there was also a power with the function for the sake of preserving the very Dimensional Universe, the Lower Domain, itself. That actualized existence was Wilhelm. In the same way as chaos and Maria, he too was an existence that was actualized into the real-number domain by a power that emanated from the imaginary-number domain."

"Due to this, U-Do's activity of observing the lower domain is sealed, and by weakening the link between the upper and lower domains, it allows to reduce the risk of causing Eternal Recurrence side-effects on other domains."

http://translations.xenotensei.com/Xeno3/PerfectGuide.html

Wilhelm is saving the universe and protecting the upper dimension where U-DO resides

Wilhelm's role as protector of the universe is also confirmed in XSIII Database



U-DO would not consume the universe



the reason people were scared was because

"What was it that frightened them to such an extent?
　　　　That very fear was the vision of the collapse of the world, which became the basis for U-Do's observation of the lower domain."

our universe was gonna be destroyed and that's what U-DO thought would happen so when they contact U-DO they see what he believes is the inevitable future: destruction of all existence

its true though that Abel and the Ark were just eyes of U-DO which explains why people like Yuriev could not detect U-DO waves from them as he could with other beings and the Zohar which is U-DO's energy

no no no. u-do WANTS to know what it feals like to be POWERLESS and weaker emotions that HUMANS feal, like suffering. it already knows the basic future of the universe. and anyway, that was abel, not complete udo{i.e able doesnt scare people like udo does does he now}

and you misunderstand. by DEVIL i dont mean EVIL. but it is infact customary for jap games to turn the devil into a misundertsood hero{shin megaten for one} most characters in xenosaga have historical slots they fill symbolically

u-do - god
chaos - yeshua/jesus
kosmos - mary magdaline
shion - maiden of mary{who in myth is supposed to be the HOLY grail and teh actual daughter of jesus and mary}
Jr./rubedo - anti christ/666
wilhelm - devil/lucifer
testaments - the four horsemen of death
y data - words of god/i.e sriptures
remme le chateu - the small church where the evidence for the holy grail is supposed ot exist in france
red testament - judah the betrayer{his e.s. name is also judah}
all the e.s. are named after the followers of jesus
abel- {abel i.e one of the first men on earth, his other part is kain}
nephilim - dunno, maybe kain or maybe the virgin mary
zarathustra- {literally translates to ZOARASTER the prophet. wilhelms neitche's actual book which is the titel for the game was named "also sprach zarathustra" translating to "thus spoke zoaraster", in the book the needlessness of god is described by neitche and the prophet zoaraster after journeying finds this and SPEAKS and god dies, this signifies its role in xenosaga, i.e seperating GOD from the world}
gnosis - the world literally means sumthing like enlightened or those who have seen god, this is a reference to having become a victim of u-do as souls

i.e LOTS more references but not need ot go into it

as far as zarathustra is concerned, if youd remember that BOTH albedo and dimitre and wilhelms were scared that u-do wud eventually CONSUME the universe and it was teh vision of this end that so horrified them when they made contact with udo,. that is why dimitri created the realians with their anti udo waves to counter it. and that is why albedo feared udo and went insane.
wilhelm has no interest in protecting u-do, he just has interest in protectgin the LOWER domain FROM u-do.

the zohar is NOT u-do s energy. this was well explained, it is merely a DOORWAY into the higher domain of u-do from where things can pass both ways.

yet shion is DYING due to her contact with udo. really, irrespective of how strong she is, she isnt on par with u-do

the devil by default ISNT a malicious entity, just look at lucifer comics on vertigo or look at the shin megami tensei games, u might also wanna look at other japanese manga like angel sanctuary.

chaos WAS jesus. even momo reads JESUS before entering the final part of zarathustra using shion's perndant. chaos is called YESHUA but wilhelm, and YESHUA was jesus christ of nazarath's REAL name.

jr, is NOT the devil. the devil does not have 666 markings on him, the ANTICHRIST does. rubedo is the ANTICHRIST. the anti christ and lucifer are two different things. and he isnt the strongest anti udo existance, that wud be wilhelm again, as he controls all 4 horsemen and has his own power source{which powers joshua} and is the one that opposes u-dos plan for the universe. he IS the devil/lucifer

no no, i mean all 4 represent the 4 horsemen of death who will bring plague war etc in armageddon. there is the white rider{albedo} red rider{kevin winnicot}, pale rider{voyager} and there is another rider but his colour isnt BLUE, but blue was introduced becasuse black and pale are very similar and the creators wud definately want variance. the 4 testaments = the 4 horsemen of death.


and u contradicted urself there, first u said it was udo's energy, than u said its a way to ascend to udo's dimension. the zohar is JUST what i stated, t a doorway to udo's realm. zarathustra was initially a system to use that powerr and the power of anime to ascend to udo's realm and replace/become udo himself from the lower realm. later on it was changed to be used in eternal recurrance and partially cutting contact of the real world with udo's eye and higher dimension.

it is not, he stated that the power of anima will drive the universe to its eventual end and in all scenarios seen by albedo and dimitri, udo consumes the world eventually which is the REASON every1 is driven insane and scared by udo. udo has always had a plan for the universe and it is wilhelm that opposes that plan, hence being in direct opposition to god and being the devil. also, wilhelm is neithce's real name on whose books the title of the name is given and much of it has to do with his philosophy, and he is in direct opposition to god in those books and hence it is fitting for the devil to be called wilhelm. and as i said, the devil/lucifer does not HAVE to be an evil entity. here, GOD is the ultimate evil in a sense{udo, even if misunderstood}, just like GOD is the ultimate evil in shin megami tensei games.

never said she was



http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Tatshyana/Misc/chaos_Maria.png

chaos is in the crowd watching the man speak
it also says in the Guide he was a disciple of the Messiah



its the Mark of the Beast
it's not in the anti-Christ



U-DO has nothing to do with the destruction of the universe
that is chaos
Wilhelm is the protector of the universe
he has NO similarities whatsoever with the Devil who in his vanity opposes God
Wilhelm opposes the end of existence



no i didn't



i never said anything about ascending
the energy descends to our dimension



wrong

　　　　"U-Do sensed the danger of the collapse of the universe, which involves both the upper and lower domains together, and it began to move in order to avoid that collapse.
　　　　U-Do had perceived that the origin of the collapse was in the scattering of the Collective Unconscious, which is caused by the existence of the rejecting consciousnesses of humans in the lower domain. And so, it inevitably began to observe the lower domain."

U-DO has nothing to do with the end of the universe

then my point remains




he wasnt a DISCIPLE. that scene is the only one which is confusing and it is exaplained as nuthing more than a gathering of the time{that man speaking isnt jesus}. if you finish xenosaga 3 and RELOAD the saved data, u end up in the elsa again with a whole lot more stuff added to the encyclopedia. go check out chaos and the y data and the song of nephilim{which i am sure you have not} it CLEARLY states that chaos is the original messiah and the y data and the song of the nephilim are CHAOS'S words{although incomplete} that chaos spoke in his original time. you can check this out right now if you wish in xenosaga 3 if you have a cleared save game{that is why the game gives u the option of savign AFTER u finish it}. chaos IS yeshua and yeshua{even the encyclopedia in the game states} is jesus's original name.

teh beast IS the anti christ. trust me on this, or dig up christian mythology, in the rapture the agents of the devil{the harlot, the horsemen of death and the antichrist} will come on the earth. the antichrist is a MAN, not the devil himself. the devil is different.




yes he does, u do will eventually manifest itself in reality and consume it. that is why wilhelm intedned to use zarathustra to SEAL THE EYES of udo from observing the lower realms. he has EVERY similarity with the devil, seeing as to how much he hates u-do and is the main driver who controls the testaments and manipulates all parties to serve that goal. wilhelm opposes the end of existance which chaos's existance is driving the universe towards, in the end it will be udo that cnsumes it{the evidence here is not well explained but if you play all three and are careful in observing youll figure it out}. chaos is a FAILSAFE to end the universe if udo doesnt get it. we do not know what chaos's connection to udo is though. and he opposes the end of existance doesnt mean he isnt the symbolic devil, as i explained, the devil doesnt have to be evil.




yes you did. and the zohar is a DOORWAY to udo's energy, it is an artifact of god{perhaps the superme artifcat of god.} you are confusing xenogears with xenosaga i think. in xenogears the xohar was where the wave existance was CONFINED. but in xenoSAGA, udo exists in a higher dimension adn the zohar is merely a doorwway to thaty dimension.




yes it does have nearly evrything{othjer than the existance of chaos which still has not been adequately explained in the game} with the destriuction of the universe. whenever udo manifests itself, the inevitable end of the universe is accelerated. as for the collapse of the upper domain, that came about in the very end and is unexplained. udo has nuthing to do with the COLLECTIVE UNCONCIOUNCE{unus mundus}, the REASON udo is greater than anything in the lower realm is that udo is a SINGLE conciousness which is greater than the unus mundus. it does move in order to avoid the collapse perhaps because we see the nicer side of udo when abel helps the nephilim and chaos seal all gnosis in the zohar. perhaps udo learnt that from shion and by seeing the events unfold int the lower domain through abel and the ark. that is why those EYES existed. initially, it was the most destriuuctive and horrifying entity which was responsible for leading the universe to destruction {along with chaos who was a FAILSAFE in case it didnt happen} and that is why wilhelm had to do the eternal recurrance thing. and from the fact that yeshua/chaos explained that the universe maybe more flexible than wlhelm thought, it is strongly implied that udo has become more understanding of the lower dimension which is why abel did what he did. but it is a fact that dimitria and albedo saw udo destroying the universe and that is why they became afraid of it and did what they did.

these games look deep and interesting, what platform are they for?

hehe, xenogears is for the ps1 while xenosaga trilogy{three games in total, all direct sequels} are for the ps2. they are rpgs and sum of the best ever made{truly}. great graphics{depending on timeframe for each}, AWESOME story, great gameplay, great characters amd truly great soundtracks. all the makings of classic. go buy em all and ull never regret it!

definately more awesome than legacy of kain{not that those rent great too}

which REMINDS ME!!!! hey 123kid {or any1 else here} does any1 have ANY idea where i can get the music missing from the official xenosaga 3 ost {i DESPERATELY want the theme that plays in abel's ark- the one which sounds like "one who bares fangs at god" from the deus core fight in xenogears, and the theme of the start screen and the human uriev battle in abel's ark}. cant find em anywhere, not even on blulaguna or galbadia hotel {they had a link sum1 posted but that link was deleted or doesnt work n stuff}.

hehe i dont think theyll be as good as the LOK, not for me, i like LOK because of the setting and style, theres an atmosphere i feel and the characters, some the characters simply by looking at them in Xeno look a bit Japanese anime made which are not my style but ill look em up anyway, see if i can get em in the bargain bin or sumfin

Lies, you know you like LOK because you get to be a shirtless rotting corpse.

hell yeh, shirtless rotting corpse>>>>all

kain isnt shirtless in BO 1 and 2 actually

no i am not. you are just gettin desperate here. the entries for the y data and song of the nephilim etc clearly state that these words were stated by chaos, the messiah



no, ur the one that is lyign now.



i was confused too in the beginning. but it was explained away when chaos was said to be the messiah and the ones that spoke those words{if my ps2 was working right now, ud bet id give u direct references, too bad. ill have to look at sum faqs sumtimes}



TOTAL AND UTTER LIE! either you do not or you havent looked. the y data are chaos's words{he is also called god here} as stated in the encycopedia thingie.



LMAO, "READ" what u just wrote, it clearly says that chaos is the messiah. they were the words of YESHUA. wilhelm calls chaos YESHUA. YESHUA is the real name of JESUS of nazarath{knowns fact} and even the DATABASE states that yeshua is the real name of jesus in hebrew. how much MORE clear do you have to get that chaos is the messiah?!?!??!?!?!!?!!?!



lol, and WHICH database are we talking about?? the one in xenosaga three, cause a lot of things were said that differed in the previous database cause otherwise it wud have ruined the story. the zohar is a DOORWAY to ascend to god'S dimension. it GIVES OUT udo's power. cannon fact.




and i care what the ingame database after completeion and people inside the game say. your not as familiar with xenosaga and xenogears as i am. srry.

also, remember that when we go back in time, in remme le chateu which takes us to lost jerusalem of the past, all the DISCIPLES are dead and buried in graves and even mary id dead and buried in the casket from which the testaments took her body from to make telos in the beginning of xenosaga 3. and yeshua/chaos is the only one alive who comes out from behind the cross. he IS teh messiah and jesus. yeshua=jesus.

Kid...you are NOT getting Leon to concede...

neither one says he was the Messiah sorry

chaos was never the Messiah and you have NO proof saying he was

i'm desperate ?
i'm not the one arguing against official canon



i was talking about you saying he was the Messiah was in these entries



no it doesn't
now you can't read ?



lie #3
all the entry to Yeshua states is
"the term Wilhelm uses to refer to chaos"



so it's U-DO's energy ?
which i've said all along ?
great




you think the Song was in in imaginary space when it's stated to be using a cloaking deivice
you flat out lie multiple times about scenes in the game and entries in the database
you ignore the Perfect Guide

you don't know anything about Xenosaga and are spitting on the series with your lies and ignorance of fact



maybe because hw is immortal and didn't give his life like MARY DID ?

he's not the Mesiah and you know nothing of Xenosaga\

i'm posting this and ending the debate because there is no debate and we're spamming my thread

FROM THE OFFICIAL XENOSAGA PERFECT GUIDE

http://translations.xenotensei.com/Xeno3/PerfectGuide.html

now i know you are lying. either in wilhelm's entry or chaos's entry it is stated that wilhelm refers to him as yeshua and it is ALSO stated that yeshua is the name of jesus. in reality every person who known about histroy and christianity would know that "jesus of nzarath"" was not his real name and YESHUA is jesus's real name. it is clearly stated in the INGAME database that tthe y data are words that CHAOS spoke.

there is lot of difference between the zohar being a DOORWAY from which udo's energy emenates and the zohar BEING the actualy energy SOURCE{like a battery} of udo{which is like a battery driven tow}. it is just a doorway from which udo's energy ENTERS the lower domain.

i do not flat out lie, kosmos had to use the phase transfer cannon to MATERIALISE the song of nephilim in REAL space{which is stated in the ingame guide btw}, if it were just cloacked from VISIONS then what is the point of using a phase transfer cannon. it was not cloacked in REAL space, and the phase transfer cannon made it materialise in REAL space. simple fact

i know a helluva lot more about xenosaga than you it seems. are you even sure that is an OFFICIAL guide? doesnt seem like it at all. just seem like sum1's version of events, anyhow, i do not need anythign more authentic than the INGAME database where it is clearly explaied what chaos is.

the above paragraph is laughable, such a messiah was never seen. it is clearly explained that the y data as well as the dong of the nephilim and the lemegeton program are incomplete forms of words that chaos spoke. chaos is called yeshua and yeshua is universally known to ne jesus's real name. it is even stated in the ingame guide in xenosaga 3 that yeshua means jesus in hebrew "i know this for a fact". if you say no than you are lying. on top of all the other references i have given, you apparently will not admit the simple truth due to egotistical reasons. oh well, doesnt matter, you can stick to you unofficial guide to xenosaga while ill stick to completely official stuff and my knowledge of xenogears/xenosaga and the kaballist/jewish/christian mythology as well as the numerous jungian/neitschian/alchemical and new ae physics{stephen hawkins who is even mentioned in the in game guide} that i know.

an official source>>>what the characters say btw, the characters could be both lieing or simply ignorrent of what they are saying, either way Official info>>what they are saying, especially in a fictional universe

Originally posted by 123KID
this from the guy who keeps lying ?
go away n00b


no no no....this is much funnier, much cooler and considering your debating religion, is perfect

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee169/Menace73/go_away_noob.jpg

Goddamnit...Xenoasaga and it's Christianity based confusing story...

A. I know more than you
B. I knew that
C. it means nothing here



nope i've already proivided the entry for Yeshua from the Database
you're just a liar
also it was never said in game Yeshua was Hebrew for Jesus
another lie
you're on a roll

also these guides came out after the game halfwit

or are you so clueless as to think two guides which answer and cover all the plot points of Xenosaga III came out before the game ?



sorry n00b but i've already proven you wrong here
i looked at the database after the game long before you ever did and i have it right at my fingertips now
so......stop lying
please ?
have some dignity



um moron the E.S.es are named after the Apostales
was chaos an Apostle ?



can you read ?

what does EVERY SOURCE i've provided sau ?
oh...........it says CHAOS SPOKE THOSE WORDS

damn



another lie
no entry says this



oh ?
Wilhelm disagrees
so do OFFICIAL guides
i'll tak their word over your lying one



for the love of God STOP LYING
no it's not
I HAVE THE ENTRY RIGHT HERE
after you upload the game it says NOTHING of him being the Messiah



I have the sources
I have the database
you have LIED about 3 times in one post
you are IGNORING official canon

you should be banned for sheer stupidity

a. your replies prove otherwise
b. ok
c. wrong




no, the entry was present only initially in the database then disappears as it is updated. you are either looking at the database after many updates as it looked at the end of the game or are using out of games summaries and comilations which are NOTORIOUS for being inconsistant with INGAME stuff. i am positive about the yesua thing because it was what reminded me after years that jesus's real name was yeshua. you can also check it up on the net, jesus's real name was always yeshua. jesus the anointed one was a symbolic name. now do you really think it is just a coincidence that chaos's was named by the developers with the same real name as jesus???????? just answer me that



lol, i got a copy of xenosaga 3 the day it came out{two days before the british or american release because everything is pirated directly and available where i live} and finished the game in 2 days after finishing every single subquest other than attaining ziggy's ultimate weapon. i also found a hidden mode in the game because i was frustrated and just puch sum random buttons and something like "test mode" was written on all cutscenes fromt the start of the game but the electricity went out n i cudnt remember the combination again{this hasnt been mentioned anywhere tomy knowledge online}. so i think i know more about xenosaga and zenogears than you do. also, you are looking at databases outside the game official or othrwise. i talk only from the very basic in game ones and even they are constantly upgraded and i looked at them every time because material is editted from them every time {try and restart xenosaga three, and start playing. and look at the database entries for yeshua or wilhelm or chaos or sumthing. i am POSITIVE that you will find INGAME the reference of yeshua being jesus's original name as i remember vividly that it was what reminded me of jesus's real name after years. i am not lying here and i dont think there is a difefrence of information in different versions so check it out.



erm yea apostles. mary was an apostle as was judas etc etc etc. YOU said that chaos was an apostle/follower of the messiah like mary, so im aslking you, which apostle was named yeshua or chaos???????????? NO1! chaos isnt an apostle nor a follower of the messiah, he IS the messiah most probably.



every source you have quoted generally happens to be the database provided OUTSIDE the games by the company which are always notorious for inconcistancies. as for the ingame database, i have already explained this to you. the updates are probably responsible for you not readiing the chaos=jesus part. restart and look, im aure its there{otherwise why wud i make the claim and encourage you to look???}. and dont you think that the ones who SPOKE those words{the words of god} WAS the messiah??? the ones who spoke those words was chaos so what does that make him????????



read above



no, OUT OF GAME GUIDES. in game guides entries shud be checked continuously which you probably neglected to as material is deleted. lemegeton was created by the INCOMPLETE words of the messiah. wilhelm himself says to chaos on zarathustra that he is the failsafe. so i suppose i am correct here. perhaps lemegeton is just a result or practical way to acheive the failsafe but it IS infact chaos/anima and not lemegeton which is the failsafe.



out of game guide. in game guide, you missed it due to updates.
also, the fact that words of god were spoken by chaos is mentioned.


you have out of game sources and updated game sources with subtracted material.
the database loses material at times after being updated
i have not lied, you are just not trying to understand what i said and relying on your overly hot head
i am not ignoring cannon, i consider the ingame database as cannon and not any out of game sources. as for your inability to find the entry, as i said, it is probably due to the database updating, try restarting and looking at th new xenosaga 3 database and for the entried i mentioned. im sure the reference for jesus being the original name of yeshua is tehre IN game. and ofcourse, it is a universally known fact that jesus of nazarath's real name was yeshua,you still have not explained that coincidence.

hm
official guide
or you
who to believe



i said he was a disciple
not an Apostle
are you trying to tell me only 12 people followed Jesus ?



except you ****ing idiot it's supported right IN THE GAME BY WILHELM
"for those were the words of Yeshua" ie. NOT THE WORDS OF THE MESSIAH/THE LORD

^just stop yapping and restart the game and check out whats written about yeshua/choas. i think it shud be there and this whole thing will be solved. official guide means nothing as i said compared to the ingame guide. your other post i will answer when i get the time. also, you havent really replied to my repy up there.

twelve people were the APOSTLES of jesus, and since mary is an apostle, chaos with all his importance must be too since he was also so close to marry and you claim cud do miracles for the messiah. and yet his name, yeshua, is not of any known apostle or even follower but is the CONFIRMED and UNIVERSALLY UNDERSTOOD real name of jesus christi of nazarath.

what? the official guide means nothing?

whos it written by first? if its to do with the developers and came after the game then its a retcon and you should deal with it, the in-game stuff is not neccerily accurate with the canon story if someone has changed it or you simply misread it

^OFFICIAL GUIDE HAS AS MUCH RELEVANCE HERE AS THE OFFICIAL MARVEL HANDBOOK!!!!!1 dont u GET it?!?!?!?!!? the ingame guide is much more reliable. you are intentionally unwilling to look at the guide the way i told you because it wud prove my point!! it was staed ingame BEFORE, but the status of chaos as jesus becomes more and more proiminant. the game wasnt fully resolved. but in game it does specifically say at a time that yeshua is jesus's original name. also, look at the link for chaos i posted on the other page, it elaborates how chaos might actually be the same messiah. or a counterpart. it is confusing because it isnt resolved, but YESHUA is the messiah whose words are the basis for all the artifacts of god etc.

^you were too busy being delusional about you being right. dun worry, it happens to the best of us when we dont use real arguments and are trumped again and again. the fact that you wont restart the game is testament to that. and you have not replied to the other points made and jesus's real name being yeshua. and {not that it will get through your ego} as i explained, the ingame database is a lot more reliable than outside sources which are notorious for inconcistancy.

huh
Wilhelm or leonheartmm
who to believe ?

i think i'll go with Wilhelm

and i don't need to restart the game
i have all the sources right in front of me

as for your "other points" like what ?



no its not
hell Wilhelm's entry doesn't even mention his role as protector of the universe
several details are left out of the database
It doesn't even mention Voyager died in his bio
or that Yuriev died in his
its full of holes



not i'm not liar
i'm just using the OFFICIAL guide and Wilhelm
and since NO ENTRY IN THE DATABASE says chaos was the Messiah it doesn't matter

anyway
i'm done with you
i have all the proof
you're wrong
get out of my thread

lmao, childish argumentation. are you really silly enough to not READ what i wrote. i specifically said that data is DELETED in the database at tims after each update. you have missed a lot of the stuff because you were not constantly keeping up with the database. all you are looking at is the database at the END of the game. restart and look please, youll see a lot of entries with different data.

wilhelm's entry doesnt mention his role because his role was only elaborated upon in the end. furthermore, i think it hints to it clearly after yo reload the saved game data. voyager never died truly, jaun sauer easily alborates on that, he was merely stopped from dying by wilhelm. his soul never really left as his body had. the database does mention that yuriev has stayed alive by changing bodies. and even with holes, it still is the most cannon, not the outside sourcs you claim.

ah i see
so because you were a liar and the stuff you repeatedly admonished me for not reading at the end of the game doesn't exist it must exist before that ?
very smooth
well not really



uh...i was talking about when Caanan killed Voyager
and when Albedo and the rest killed Yuriev
get with the times
and I have OFFICIAL sources on my side
you have nothing
n00bs

leon i'm asking you nicely before I put you on Ignore
stop being ignorant and arguing with canon
i have ALL the proof
i have the guides
i have the game
i have everything that proves chaos is NOT the Messiah
just accept it