Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

well can someone finally beat Kain, B.T.?
Respect Thread

This God rapes Kain across the floor.

U-DO Galacticly stomps on Kain.

huge ass spite.

Lol i bet BT will say Kain will win. K41N 1S T3H UBZ0RZ

KAIN UB#ERZ EVRTY ONZZZZ.!!!!11=.. K4I n i$ da most urbz guy in KMC!1.

Kain loses easily.

Nah V2D, KAAIN UBERSZ EVRYNE!!!! KAIN Stops! TIME and Thee implodes U-DO with Soul REAVER LOLOLOL

Kain can not die, therefore can not lose

Unbeatable logic.

i dont think U-DO can die either

Try tell that to Kain's #1 fanboy

Or anyone else who is a dear fanboy(/girl) to some unkillable character

bt isnt a fanboy....fanboys will never admit their fav characters defeat, even when proof has been given against him..
since kain cannot be destroyed, almost all threads result in his victory or a stalemate..so far, BT has admitted kains defeat a number of times, due to KO...but only a few people can acutally knock kain out without destroying him, therfor he comes back..

Originally posted by MadMel
bt isnt a fanboy....fanboys will never admit their fav characters defeat, even when proof has been given against him..
since kain cannot be destroyed, almost all threads result in his victory or a stalemate..so far, BT has admitted kains defeat a number of times, due to KO...but only a few people can acutally knock kain out without destroying him, therfor he comes back..

Burning Thought said that Kain can defeat any character in one thread (Do not ask me wich, as I just trashed trough it and do not remember). I consider that being pretty much a fanboy.

Anyways, I could be very wrong. I am new to versus discussions and only know the fanboy term vaugly.

id say he was joking...since there's so many kain threads around, kain has become the equivalent of chuck norris, so people are always joking that he could rape omniverses and such

Originally posted by MadMel
id say he was joking...since there's so many kain threads around, kain has become the equivalent of chuck norris, so people are always joking that he could rape omniverses and such

This was Burning Thought saying it and not the other people. It was not that noticeable sarcasm either. Seemed like he meant it, but I did not pay much attention to it, because as I said: I just trash read trough the thread. I have quit bothering to debate against any character that can suck souls. They are by default winners against anything with a soul (According to a high number of people)

Chuck would Roundhouse kick the mist and it would implode into nothing.

BT not a fanboy? This thread says otherwise.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=7370139&highlight=kain+tribunal#post7370139

BT once also said Kain is at least Celestial level.

Burning Thought even said Kain would beat the Living Tribunal, i dont know about this section, but in the Comic Versus section, a win is if one person either kills the opponent, knocks him out, or any kind of neutralizing the opponent.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Burning Thought even said Kain would beat the Living Tribunal, i dont know about this section, but in the Comic Versus section, a win is if one person either kills the opponent, knocks him out, or any kind of neutralizing the opponent. I just posted the link. It shows massive lulz.

Zomulgustav kills all.

Then Chuck's beard absorbs Zomy and adds to Chuck's already infinite power

Zomulgustav will just revert to his Pre-physical form and jump into a new body.

Then Chuck's beard will absorb that.

It can't be absorbed. It's properties will repel the effects.

Stop going off topic. This is about BT's wank of Kain.

no, he's Chuck, he can absorb anything except Bruce Lee, who would pwn Zom in 3 sec

Bruce Lee was Zomu-chan's inspiration.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Stop going off topic. This is about BT's wank of Kain.

But this is important.

Originally posted by Sol Valentine
Bruce Lee was Zomu-chan's inspiration.

hysterical I SEE NO CONNECTION SICE I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THIS ZOM GUY EXISTS

Idiot, in the parody chapters.

WTF is that?

In my manga, there are Parody Chapters. Which make fun or give tribute to stuff. But their not canon anyway.

I finished one yesterday. Parody Chapter 12: The Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, and Linsday Lohan Chronicles.

..........ok

Paris Hlton: Wow, Ryo, that move was hot.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
BT not a fanboy? This thread says otherwise.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=7370139&highlight=kain+tribunal#post7370139

BT once also said Kain is at least Celestial level.

I knew he thought highly of Kain, but I never thought he would actually say that Kain can beat an omnipotent being


Saddest part of it all is "can do nothing on Kain"

Thats the most hilarious part right there!

and then he goes on to say


ROFL

Sad

as i said in the other thread, i was new to the forum..i am no fanboy

also if this guy cannot die, then stalemate...endless battle i suppose

The Living Tribunal has power over the manifestation of Death itself, and can easily remove immortality. (if your talking about LT)

U-DO can simply neutralize Kain, for the win.

Originally posted by Terryc250
The Living Tribunal has power over the manifestation of Death itself, and can easily remove immortality. (if your talking about LT)

U-DO can simply neutralize Kain, for the win.

no, LT could defeat kain ,as i said, i was new to the forum, didnt know the character, like you have incredible ignorence of kain, but ime not going to remember the thread and bring it up in a year or so just to spite you, infact i may report V2D, thats a direct insult and perhaps Furion, its not worthy of my time but i think its one of Lanas roles to keep this section clean and removed of insult and spite..especially a poor case of it at that

show me, what do you mean by neutralize?

kain cannot die from means, unless you can show me the video/information and time (if a video) that he can neautralise beings easily

Uh. He is omnipotent. No more proof is needed

Originally posted by Lady Fox
Uh. He is omnipotent. No more proof is needed

no w8 a moment, what calls him omnipotent? can you post me what calls this U-DO omnipotent, you see you calling him that doesnt make him omnipotent, also LT is called Omnipotent but he is not so meh, show me please

sorry for double post, but cant edit since timeout

this guy is apprently God himself? and is infnitly powerful, spite thread, kain cannot win...most characters in gaming would lose this

well you make it so Kain wins against most people.

most people? lesser beings than kain if he has a chance but this is supposed to be a full on, infnite power God were talking about here

Kain can douche weaklings like those found in FF and with more difficulty DS characters, but a supreme, no that would be fanboyish, which as ive said before and Madmel has clearly stated, ime not one

FEAR ME FOR I'M THE BIGGEST FANBOY EVER!

are you? personally i would rate you as a bigger Troll no offense at first i thought you were a regular cave troll, but now your more of a armoured Mordor troll...

OOOOOOOOHH! TROLLLS! I you want to see a real troll battle click link:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f61/t473896.html

Originally posted by Burning thought
no w8 a moment, what calls him omnipotent? can you post me what calls this U-DO omnipotent, you see you calling him that doesnt make him omnipotent, also LT is called Omnipotent but he is not so meh, show me please

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Living_Tribunal

Marvel's own profile states he is omniscient and omnipotent.

U-DO wins. 131fist

Originally posted by Lady Fox
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Living_Tribunal

Marvel's own profile states he is omniscient and omnipotent.

its false then isnt it, because the characters say in marvel there are levels of omnipotence, Tribunal cannot be omnipotent, because TOAA is beyond him in power

Tribunal can have the "omnipotent" word under him all he likes but he is not omnipotent


Originally posted by Wandering Flame
U-DO wins. 131fist


he sure does, he is apprently omnipotent and tbh ime too tired to debate this point, ill just belive he is

I thought Living Tribunal gets his power from TOAA.

he does, TOAA>LT, so theres no way LT can be ominpotence because TOAA could destroy him easily

Well, he could be omnipotent in the sense that he can get as much power from TOAA (who is omnipotent) meaning he has no limit to his power except that he just can't be above TOAA.

In other words he can do anything but beat TOAA...I think...I don't know.

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
Well, he could be omnipotent in the sense that he can get as much power from TOAA (who is omnipotent) meaning he has no limit to his power except that he just can't be above TOAA.

In other words he can do anything but beat TOAA...I think...I don't know.

exactley, ominpotent is power without limits, TOAA would be his limit, so he cannot be omnipotent

Nothing is above 131fist 131fist

Originally posted by Burning thought
exactley, ominpotent is power without limits, TOAA would be his limit, so he cannot be omnipotent

If TOAA is his limit and TOAAA has no limit, neither does he

The only limit in this case would be being above TOAA (so the only thing he can't do is beat TOAA) so he's omnipotent with just a slight exception.

And yes, one could be omnipotent with an exception. A good example of this would be a genie who's only weakness is if his lamp was destroyed.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain can douche weaklings like those found in FF and with more
Nope, Kain isnt remotely close to as strong as you try to make him out to be.


Are my eyes deceiving me? O_O

Originally posted by Lady Fox
If TOAA is his limit and TOAAA has no limit, neither does he


you miss the point, TOAA is more powerful, what i meant was, LT cannot go higher than TOAA's power, TOAA is the ceiling and roof that he hits, TOAA himself goes all the way to the chimney in comparison to the tribunal

Originally posted by Burning thought
you miss the point, TOAA is more powerful, what i meant was, LT cannot go higher than TOAA's power, TOAA is the ceiling and roof that he hits, TOAA himself goes all the way to the chimney in comparison to the tribunal

Can it simply not be TOAA that grants LT his powers. That is the sole exceptions. TOAA can decide to take it away, which makes TOAA above him.

You said in a thread that Kain was blocking Omniscience away. Well, maybe TOAA can block LT's omnipotence.

Originally posted by Lady Fox
Can it simply not be TOAA that grants LT his powers. That is the sole exceptions. TOAA can decide to take it away, which makes TOAA above him.

You said in a thread that Kain was blocking Omniscience away. Well, maybe TOAA can block LT's omnipotence.

TOAA is beyond LT in power, cannot be affected by LT in any way possible, omnipotence is power without limits, that means LT has a limit os he cannot be ominpotence


i didnt say it as definance, that was a speculation, i think i said it was didnt i? hmm, but anyway i dont think Kain blocks omnicience

Originally posted by Burning thought
TOAA is beyond LT in power, cannot be affected by LT in any way possible, omnipotence is power without limits, that means LT has a limit os he cannot be ominpotence


i didnt say it as definance, that was a speculation, i think i said it was didnt i? hmm, but anyway i dont think Kain blocks omnicience

But chances are that the ability to block such things exist. That means except for TOAA, there is nothing in the entire possible universe that LT can not do.

So unless Kain or anyone else is above TOAA, they are screwed.

Originally posted by Burning thought
TOAA is beyond LT in power, cannot be affected by LT in any way possible, omnipotence is power without limits, that means LT has a limit os he cannot be ominpotence


i didnt say it as definance, that was a speculation, i think i said it was didnt i? hmm, but anyway i dont think Kain blocks omnicience

TOAA is not even a character in the comics, "it" has just been referenced a couple of times by characters, it was already revealed that TOAA is the actual Marvel Company itself.

Just like how Walt Disney added his face to the Phantom Blot?

I wanna be TOAA

LT is omnipotent, in Marvel tho, there are levels of omnipotence, some beings are on a higher level of omnipotence in Marvel, makes no sense I know, but it does in Marvel. Also, Classic Beyonder was on a higher level of omnipotence than LT.

Any level of omnipotence will kick Kain's ass

Originally posted by Lady Fox
Any level of omnipotence will kick Kain's ass Indeed.

Originally posted by Lady Fox
Any level of omnipotence will kick Kain's ass

they prob would, i was not debating kain fighting them, i was debating againt omnipotence

Satan in my fiction would also kick LT and Classic beyonders @sses at the same time

but i was debating against just because their called ominpotent does not mean they can do anything, because they cannot as proven by TOAA, and V2D says Classic beyonder is a higher level of omnipotence

i just rememered that, marvel ominpotence is not real omnipotence, and only omnipotence is likely to actually be able to Kill kain, any would defeat him with something or other ime sure

Satan in your fiction, I am sure he could. Just like Michi in my fiction could destroy existance itself and everything else in any moment.


As said about Living Tribunal:

The Living Tribunal is an omnipotent entity which presides over all realities and universes, including the main Universe, Earth X, the Ultimate Universe, and all other alternate and potential realities.

He can simply alter the reality of Kain to make him none-immortal. Just because one omnipotent being has a tough time against another does not mean they can not do anything. Real omnipotence is the ability to do anything, which from what I know is exactly what Living Tribunal can do (Save beating TOAA, which as it seems right now does not even exist- if listening to Terryc250)

You say that Marvel omnipotence is not real omnipotence. How can omnipotence be real or not? Either it is omnipotence, or it is not. Omnipotence does not change meaning, simply because an omnipotent being can not do one single thing (Like beating TOAA). Omnipotence means "All power", which in other words means that an omnipotent being holds all powers possible. LT is "all powerful" and therefore omnipotent.

TOAA might be ranked over him because the effectivity of their power exceeds his. What he does with a motion, they might do with a blink. There is more to power than just pure power.

Originally posted by Lady Fox
Satan in your fiction, I am sure he could. Just like Michi in my fiction could destroy existance itself and everything else in any moment.


As said about Living Tribunal:

The Living Tribunal is an omnipotent entity which presides over all realities and universes, including the main Universe, Earth X, the Ultimate Universe, and all other alternate and potential realities.

He can simply alter the reality of Kain to make him none-immortal. Just because one omnipotent being has a tough time against another does not mean they can not do anything. Real omnipotence is the ability to do anything, which from what I know is exactly what Living Tribunal can do (Save beating TOAA, which as it seems right now does not even exist- if listening to Terryc250)

You say that Marvel omnipotence is not real omnipotence. How can omnipotence be real or not? Either it is omnipotence, or it is not. Omnipotence does not change meaning, simply because an omnipotent being can not do one single thing (Like beating TOAA). Omnipotence means "All power", which in other words means that an omnipotent being holds all powers possible.

TOAA might be ranked over him because the effectivity of their power exceeds his. What he does with a motion, they might do with a blink. There is more to power than just pure power.

that wouldnt do anything, kain simply cannot die because of his scion of balance status, the only way to counteract that would be to alter the timeline of nosogth which makes Kain Scion of balance which has been debated before

TOAA is a fictional character, i think someone even had a feat for him if i remember correctly, although its a character that represents the power of Marvel itself, its still a fictional character the TOAA that LT cannot go above

all powers possible, among those powers is not a power that can take on the TOAA or another supreme entity, its not omnipotent, i also say it becase as V2D theres levels of omnipotence, this does not make sense to the word, Marvel cannot it seems understand English

Omnipotence is all powerful, power without limits, this title of power for LT is immediatley lost as soon as his power has limits, which is LT, apprently Molecule man was also above LT among many other things

Originally posted by Burning thought
that wouldnt do anything, kain simply cannot die because of his scion of balance status, the only way to counteract that would be to alter the timeline of nosogth which makes Kain Scion of balance which has been debated before

TOAA is a fictional character, i think someone even had a feat for him if i remember correctly, although its a character that represents the power of Marvel itself, its still a fictional character the TOAA that LT cannot go above

all powers possible, among those powers is not a power that can take on the TOAA or another supreme entity, its not omnipotent, i also say it becase as V2D theres levels of omnipotence, this does not make sense to the word, Marvel cannot it seems understand English

Omnipotence is all powerful, power without limits, this title of power for LT is immediatley lost as soon as his power has limits, which is LT, apprently Molecule man was also above LT among many other things

Simply remove Scion of Balance. Then kill Kain.

Alright then. You seem so sure. Give me TOAA's real name or something that I can relate to them and I will search Marvel's homepage and the web for it.
And if it is Marvel themselves, of course he can not go above. He is omnipotent, but he is fiction. I would love to see him destroy the author

If TOAA is Marvel, they are outside LT's existance. They are real and he is fiction. Therefore out of his reach. He can still be omnipotent in fiction, but can not reach outside the fiction, thus' making TOAA untouchable. Anything in fiction is in his reach.
So, to a sense I guess you are right. He is not omnipotent, because he can not leave the comic world.

Originally posted by Lady Fox
Simply remove Scion of Balance. Then kill Kain.

Alright then. You seem so sure. Give me TOAA's real name or something that I can relate to them and I will search Marvel's homepage and the web for it.
And if it is Marvel themselves, of course he can not go above. He is omnipotent, but he is fiction. I would love to see him destroy the author

If TOAA is Marvel, they are outside LT's existance. They are real and he is fiction. Therefore out of his reach. He can still be omnipotent in fiction, but can not reach outside the fiction, thus' making TOAA untouchable. Anything in fiction is in his reach.
So, to a sense I guess you are right. He is not omnipotent, because he can not leave the comic world.

hes called "The one above all" but you may end up getting the celestial that has the same name, but TOAA is fiction, altho he is an avatar for Marvel themselves, the company, the TOAA itself is the fictional avatar of the company and nothing in Marvel can go above it, so nothing can truly be ominpotent

well yes thats another example, he cannot leave fiction but even in the fiction there are things he cannot do, like destroy this being that Scathon could destroy who is a Celestial if ime correct, also i think he is also below Molecule man the classic version, its debated i think in the Comic book vs whether or not LT has actually been retconned at all or if anything less has happened to him

Hiw powers has no limit, but he is not capable of destroying TOAA. Simple as that. They have a power that prevent him from destroying them. A "racial ability" might fit the bill

Originally posted by Lady Fox
Hiw powers has no limit, but he is not capable of destroying TOAA. Simple as that. They have a power that prevent him from destroying them. A "racial ability" might fit the bill

ofc his powers have limit, he woudlnt be able to beat Classic MM either, or he couldnt defeat the thing scathon beat, LT needed help from Scathon, so obviously LT is not as ominpotent as he would like to think

so he doesnt have all powers of anything, so we can only go by his feats, which tbh ime not sure, i think he held a multiverse or something in his hands at once or destroyed a multiverse

What exactly happened in the fight that LT could not win? For just maybe it was not his powers that prevented his victory, but his moral or an oath or something

Originally posted by Lady Fox
What exactly happened in the fight that LT could not win? For just maybe it was not his powers that prevented his victory, but his moral or an oath or something

i dont think LT has anything like that, he is no more a character than a cold form that does things by will of TOAA, but i dont know the outcome, all i know is that Scathan is seen highly for it and LT doesnt seem as omnipotent if he cannot do something

if theres a threat to the universe, LT can decide to judge it and if its judged against it may be deleted, apparently however something about the opponent Scathon destroyed stopped LT

LT is not omnipotent. U-DO horrirapes Kain. Sephiroth is still trash. The end.

Marvel says he is

"Omnipotent and Omniscient"

then Marvel dont understand the word, have made the word in their unvierse not what it means in our world, or have contradicted themselves

Marvel altered it to there being levels, in Marvel there are levels of infinity as well. Mad Jim Jaspers, LT, or Classic Beyonder would just reality warp Kain from existence.

they couldnt reality warp him from excistence the same reason why tehy cannot kill him in Nosgoth, hes protected by the Amy herring rules

youd be meddling with his time line if you tried to erase him from excistence becayse no matter where the fight starts kains excistence began in the Nosgoth timeline which cannot be messed with

they could prob do some weird stuff with him, or put him in a dimension and close it down, they can do that, completly make the dimension disapear with Kain in it

ermmmmmm, u-do is GOD. as in THE god of all the universes which exists in xenosaga verse and the encaphlon. even its EYES were the size of star systems and a single mental excanhge between kosmos and u-do ended up destoying three galaxies. kain doesnt have a prayer, the umn is the mind/soul dimension, and udo will kill him there too. total mismatch, u-do shud go up against tenchi sisters or lord of nightmares, jesus.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
ermmmmmm, u-do is GOD. as in THE god of all the universes which exists in xenosaga verse and the encaphlon. even its EYES were the size of star systems and a single mental excanhge between kosmos and u-do ended up destoying three galaxies. kain doesnt have a prayer, the umn is the mind/soul dimension, and udo will kill him there too. total mismatch, u-do shud go up against tenchi sisters or lord of nightmares, jesus.

he only destroyed 3 galaxies?

so U-Do is God? if hes God and can do anything then what are Tenchi sisterso?

isnt Lord of nightmares in animes and novels? not games?

Supreme entities also?

tenchi sisters are multioveral gods rfromt the tenchi mayu anime. lord of nightmares is the multiveral/megaversal god from the slayer anime.

yes udo is a supreme entity, kain wud die.

well its not a fair statement because their animes not games.....and this is games VS, altho i think Raz is making the everything VS so you could prob make those matchups in there

no kain wouldnt die, he cannot die......he would prob be knocked out tho

So not even God itself can kill Kain according to you?

no he wud die. the gods that gave kain his immortality are very weak. they are concerned with traits of the planet and nothing more. even the squid like elder god who he defeated who controls the cycle of deatha nd rebirth{he defeated him but cudnt kill him} is confined to the PLANET.
as such, their powers are nothing compared to U-DO, the collective unconcious which cud destroy as many universes as it sees fit. u-do's power is beyond comprehension. kain is outmatched by any1 on or beyond the planetary power level. you are also forgetting that reletively immortal beings like voyager were also destroyed by the zohar and u-do's power. basically, the strongest things in nosgoth can not even compare to basic characters in xenosaga. {ive played all the soul reaverm, blood omen, and defiance games. u are severely overestimating kain. } u-do is basically beyond infinitely stronger than the power source for kain's immortality.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
no he wud die. the gods that gave kain his immortality are very weak. they are concerned with traits of the planet and nothing more. even the squid like elder god who he defeated who controls the cycle of deatha nd rebirth{he defeated him but cudnt kill him} is confined to the PLANET.
as such, their powers are nothing compared to U-DO, the collective unconcious which cud destroy as many universes as it sees fit. u-do's power is beyond comprehension. kain is outmatched by any1 on or beyond the planetary power level. you are also forgetting that reletively immortal beings like voyager were also destroyed by the zohar and u-do's power. basically, the strongest things in nosgoth can not even compare to basic characters in xenosaga. {ive played all the soul reaverm, blood omen, and defiance games. u are severely overestimating kain. } u-do is basically beyond infinitely stronger than the power source for kain's immortality.

No gods gave kain his immortality apart from the creators and real creators have more power than any being in fiction technically, so no God can kill kain apart from the creators themselves, they have locked kains timeline, and the pillars dont make kain invuelrable at all, they give him some incredibly powerful abilities tho but nothing to do with his overall imortality, also technically EG is not confined to the planet, he is inside several dimensions at the same time technically because he can be seen by Raziel in the spectoral realm as well, he seems to be on a plane of excistence that only a few can see

destroying universes is not the same as destroying kain, because those unvierses are not protected by anything, their simply earth and rock and suns, their not protected by any ancient force or such, also when has he destroyed countless unvierses or said so, ive not heard of that before

what are you talking about the planetary power level? please show me this level your talking of, it sounds like something you personally made up, or are you taling about a being that can blow up planets, then your simply talking about destructive force, just because kain doesnt have destructive force on their level doesnt mean they can kill him or he cant kill them.

can you prove you played all the games and understood them? ive heard more than enough people in my time who claim to have completed the games and not been able to understand squat from them, for example youve already said you seem to think its because of something in Nosgoth, an entity that Kain is immortal? Basic characters? what baisic characters in Xenogear, he would rip out their souls if they have souls to destroy them

U-Do does not equel a Creator of a fiction, unless U-DO represents the company who made Xenogears, if so then he is simply equel to, but that doesnt mean he can wipe away what makes kain immortal, because thats set in stone through Kains time line which is also immutable by law of the Creators




Originally posted by Lady Fox
So not even God itself can kill Kain according to you?

God himself is fully omnipotent, altho i dont think God himself could really kill kain if he excisted, maybe the one from christian beliefs but ime not religions and the way they portray his feats its terrible, he took 7 days to make Earth alone.....but then again, this is talking religion, no offense but i think Religion is fiction completly and so the God in religion is probably weaker in feats by far to this U-DO guy since as i said God made the earth in 7 days apprently the God of one fiction canot neccerily overrule the god of another fiction, infact thats unlikely at all, that would be copyright

So.... if the entire universe was annhiliated, save the destroyer. Kain would still live?

^LMAO!!!!! omg. to begin with, kain is PRACTICALLY IMMORTAL. he isnt truly immortal. he was made immortal like all other vampires when vorador gave him his power. however, ariel gave him more blessings and since he was the guardian of balance, he has power from the LAND fo nosgoth. but he isnt truly immortal, its just that he was brought back from deatn after being partialy killed by puny entities like the hylden king/sarafan lord. he was unable to kil the elder god. the elder god exists in the spectral REALMS where souls live, it is still part of the earth, and the god recycle's the planet's souls and gets power from it. that is why its roots/tentacles reach deep into the GROUND. and really, the creator didnt make any1 truly immortsal,even the elder god said "one day your wretched stangnant soul will finally be mine. after which time kain said "in the mean time, ud best burrow deep" . the POINT of the battle was that kain cud die just like raziel but with the soul reaver, he triumphed over the elder god. he isnt by nature immortal and even if he was made that way by the CREATORS of the game, even then he wud not be more powerful than his entire univer's power combined. u-do exists BEYOND dimensional existance. he wud obliterate everything in the legacy of kain universe since he himself is a multiversal being. as such, kain wud be utterly destroyed. as for the soul thing goes, u obviously have not played xenosaga or u wudnt make that ridiculous comment. souls of sum main characters of xenosaga are more important than teh entire legacy of kain UNIVERSE.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^LMAO!!!!! omg. to begin with, kain is PRACTICALLY IMMORTAL. he isnt truly immortal. he was made immortal like all other vampires when vorador gave him his power. however, ariel gave him more blessings and since he was the guardian of balance, he has power from the LAND fo nosgoth. but he isnt truly immortal, its just that he was brought back from deatn after being partialy killed by puny entities like the hylden king/sarafan lord. he was unable to kil the elder god. the elder god exists in the spectral REALMS where souls live, it is still part of the earth, and the god recycle's the planet's souls and gets power from it. that is why its roots/tentacles reach deep into the GROUND. and really, the creator didnt make any1 truly immortsal,even the elder god said "one day your wretched stangnant soul will finally be mine. after which time kain said "in the mean time, ud best burrow deep" . the POINT of the battle was that kain cud die just like raziel but with the soul reaver, he triumphed over the elder god. he isnt by nature immortal and even if he was made that way by the CREATORS of the game, even then he wud not be more powerful than his entire univer's power combined. u-do exists BEYOND dimensional existance. he wud obliterate everything in the legacy of kain universe since he himself is a multiversal being. as such, kain wud be utterly destroyed. as for the soul thing goes, u obviously have not played xenosaga or u wudnt make that ridiculous comment. souls of sum main characters of xenosaga are more important than teh entire legacy of kain UNIVERSE.


you seem to be a Xenosaga fanboy, interesting

Kain is completly immortal since as his station as the scion of balance he cannot die, simple......as a Vampire he is immortal because of the fact he canont age but he cannot die because he is the scion of balance

being the guardian of balance gives him control of magic as concept in the LOK unvierse, yes, like all balance guardians they control magic in the world...so....whats the relevence of you menstioning this?

he doesnt just excist in the spectoral realm, he excists in various realms at once, including the material, he just cannot be seen or touched because you need purified sight to see the Elder God, if he was Spectoral then Kain would of seen the rest of the spectoral realm when he was purifed, but he did not, only the EG, who excists both material and Spectoral dimensions at the same time, yes the EG recycles souls in his wheel of fate, creating life again and so on and so forth but he cannot do it to vampires

the creator did, Kain as the scion of balance cannot be killed, as we know the EG is a liar and at the end was desperate, the only way EG can have vampire souls is if a reaver or such like Raziel takes it but Raziel is now in the blade and is kains ally, but kain cannot die, the EG is not a real God, he does not know past, present and future.

no, even EG as arrogent as it is admitted he could kill neither kain or Raziel.....

i never said Kain is equel to the entire power of the unvierse or anything like that...he doesnt have that kind of power at his finger tips, at least not as we know ofcourse.

no he would not obliterate the LOK unvierse, not unless tehy were thrown into the Xenosaga unvierse ofc for the fight, then wed just have Kain left over, has U-DOS ever taken a soul?

false, Xenogear souls unless you can prove their not vulerable to soul powers are the same as any other soul, their sentience forces and spirit of a being, also what do you mean more improtant? wtf....sounds like a random fanboy rant sort of thing to say...


Originally posted by Lady Fox
So.... if the entire universe was annhiliated, save the destroyer. Kain would still live?


why not? he would just be floating in space probably, couldnt do much but he would live, theres no reason to assume otherwise, because even that would be an assumption, all we know is the facts and that kain cannot die.

no
Kain is immortaler than any other vampire as only the Reaver can truly kill him
the Elder God himself admits that Kain can't be killed which was not the case for all the other vampires
not to say Kain wouldn't die here but you're wrong about what you said
Raziel: You haven't the means to kill either one of us!
Elder God: Ah but you can be stopped.

Originally posted by 123KID
no
Kain is immortaler than any other vampire as only the Reaver can truly kill him
the Elder God himself admits that Kain can't be killed which was not the case for all the other vampires
not to say Kain wouldn't die here but you're wrong about what you said
Raziel: You haven't the means to kill either one of us!
Elder God: Ah but you can be stopped.


123KID is correct, however i disagree about the reaver being able to kill kain, the only things that belived that were those who thought kain and Raziel to be their champions of diffrent sides and belived kain was destined to die at the hands of the Hylden champion, however this turned out not to be true because Kain is the scion of balance and Raziel happesn to be both the champions, but yes all the rest what you said is correct

which is the reason why i ask Leonheart to say what he can of the game if he claim to of played it beause its not the easiest game to comprehend i suppose

Kain can be killed by the Reaver. He is not a true immortal like Ganon or someone. Just wanted to say that.

false, he cannot be killed by the reaver

Originally posted by Burning thought
false, he cannot be killed by the reaver http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/9816/seakingqe3.jpg

..erm.......

also Gano ncan be killed by master sword so hes not immortal at all....maybe not even in age for all i know

also why are you pasting that silly seaking thing everywhere, its rubbish, some of the things people post are funny but whats so good about that?

Ganondorf has been stabbed in the heart with the MS and left standing, not even it can kill him, he was stabbed in the head with it in fact, and didn't die(turned to stone, sealed), and the interesting thing about that is, HE DIDN'T HAVE THE TRIFORCE OF POWER!

100 posts

When it shouldn't have even been made.

lmao, xenosaga fanboy, not really. i just dont give half ass below planetary level characters odds over beyond multiversal entities. i think that pretty reasoneable, all the other scions were killed might i add, kain threw away his duty as scion of balance and the pillar of balance was destroyed. doesnt matter, it only pertains to balance in NOSGOTH, and udo will blink and make nosgoth disappear as well as the elder god and all the dead souls in the spectral realm of the planet. voilia, the mystical balance of nosgoth doesnt even exist anymore, kain doesnt have a prayer. heck, MOMO cud beat the shit out of kain, or even ziggy.

Not even BT thinks Kain wins this fight just so you know.

yes udo has taken dimitri's soul as well as the urtvs and shion and kosmos and albedo and practically any1 else it please. and no, the souls ARE much more than they are in legacy of kain. in legacy of kain, both the real and teh spectral realm and the elder god are confined to a PLANET and nosgoth is all there is to the realm, none of those beings extends outside in space etc. however, in xenoSAGA{not xenoGEARS, xenoSAGA universe and powers are far far far more than xenoGEARS universe} souls exist in imaginary space and in all histories and futures in higher dimensional space while bodies exist in real space. kosmos's soul was dispersed into all of reality, holding chao's anima at bay in all realities, chaos's soul has the potential power to end all existance, while shion can call on the power of UDO to manifest itself in real space. there are a host of other soul properties abotu wilhelm and the testaments and stuff. i suggest you go PLAY all three xenosagas before you make the type of arguments you are making. dungeons and dragon types like legacy of kain characters{not that the series isnt AWESOME} stand NO chance infront of gods who rule multiverses.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Not even BT thinks Kain wins this fight just so you know.

But he does think Kain survives. Basically, what Burning Thought is saying is that Kain is tougher to kill than God itself. Since even if the entire universe was removed out of existance, Kain would stand since he is the scion of balance or what it is called.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lmao, xenosaga fanboy, not really. i just dont give half ass below planetary level characters odds over beyond multiversal entities. i think that pretty reasoneable, all the other scions were killed might i add, kain threw away his duty as scion of balance and the pillar of balance was destroyed. doesnt matter, it only pertains to balance in NOSGOTH, and udo will blink and make nosgoth disappear as well as the elder god and all the dead souls in the spectral realm of the planet. voilia, the mystical balance of nosgoth doesnt even exist anymore, kain doesnt have a prayer. heck, MOMO cud beat the shit out of kain, or even ziggy.

false, now you see, whats funny is your claim to have played all 5 games which should give you more knowlegde than your showing, what your saying is that there is more than one scion of balance ever? no theres only been one scion of balance which is the guy who cant be killed, there were many balance guardians you see, kain is both guardian and scion, but there has only been one scion

also no, youd have to be Amy herring or Kyle or whatever the other developers names are all at once to wipe nosgoth, its time as stated by them as a special rule for the universe is immutable you cant change it, since U-DO is not part of Nosgoth in the first place he would likely be destroyed

from what ive seen of him he is a weak entity, 123Kid says its the same enitty Kosmos fired and joined beams with and all that happened is apprently a Galaxy was destroyed....



Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Not even BT thinks Kain wins this fight just so you know.

at least someone realises this, ofc kain doesnt win


Originally posted by leonheartmm
yes udo has taken dimitri's soul as well as the urtvs and shion and kosmos and albedo and practically any1 else it please. and no, the souls ARE much more than they are in legacy of kain. in legacy of kain, both the real and teh spectral realm and the elder god are confined to a PLANET and nosgoth is all there is to the realm, none of those beings extends outside in space etc. however, in xenoSAGA{not xenoGEARS, xenoSAGA universe and powers are far far far more than xenoGEARS universe} souls exist in imaginary space and in all histories and futures in higher dimensional space while bodies exist in real space. kosmos's soul was dispersed into all of reality, holding chao's anima at bay in all realities, chaos's soul has the potential power to end all existance, while shion can call on the power of UDO to manifest itself in real space. there are a host of other soul properties abotu wilhelm and the testaments and stuff. i suggest you go PLAY all three xenosagas before you make the type of arguments you are making. dungeons and dragon types like legacy of kain characters{not that the series isnt AWESOME} stand NO chance infront of gods who rule multiverses.

as i said, your talking rubbish, you said their more important but importance doesnt equel destruction, just because their part of diffrent realities doesnt make them so much better

Kains soul is completly immortal, infact if any of these beings were in LOK, their souls could be recycled and made into new beings of flesh if he wanted

you keep saying he stands no chance, thats already been debated, i know he doesnt win......i mean he cant kill this U-DO either, probably could not hit him unless he came into the same form he battled Kos-mos as, then he could "try" do something before being defeated, also just because they rule multiverses does not make them so much greater, just because the president rules the USA, doesnt mean he can survive or fight better than one of his soldiers....

Originally posted by Lady Fox
But he does think Kain survives. Basically, what Burning Thought is saying is that Kain is tougher to kill than God itself. Since even if the entire universe was removed out of existance, Kain would stand since he is the scion of balance or what it is called.


God itself? what do you mean God itself, if your talking about U-DO then thats just the God in the Xeno Fiction, also has he been killed? maybe he cannot be killed either, also 123Kid what is your view? you made this battle seriously was it made ofr spite? considering you also made the respect thread for U-DO?

scion of balance its called

is loose kain allowed? theoretical kain? or the kain we know the facts for? if its only kain we know the facts for then U-DO cant possibly lose surely if he is a God? so its spite perhaps? hmm

They said U-DO is God itself, so I kind of walked with that. If U-DO exchanged words with someone, that means that U-DO "is" in philosophical terms. He leads a conversation, therefore he exist as an actual entity. Everything that "is" can be defeated, and in my opinion even killed. You just have to find the right means to do so, and hold the capability in power to pull it trough.

Originally posted by Lady Fox
They said U-DO is God itself, so I kind of walked with that. If U-DO exchanged words with someone, that means that U-DO "is" in philosophical terms. He leads a conversation, therefore he exist as an actual entity. Everything that "is" can be defeated, and in my opinion even killed. You just have to find the right means to do so, and hold the capability in power to pull it trough.

"shrug" if U-DO IS god then his creating the world in 7 days is a horrible feat and he must be damn weak, hes just a God in a fiction

"shrug" well wether kain can die or not is regardless in a debate because we dont know what can kill him, only throw in a guess or so, i dont see anything that can kill kain if the rules state he cant die, Amy herring i suppose could kill kain, she could change something in the story, infact that could happen conisdering the last game wasnt out for ages ago so maybe theyll retcon the story but both kain and other seemingly unkillable beings can be defeated for sure

^lmao!!!!!!!!!!!! those arguments are worse than gs !!!!! oh you poor poor boy, going by that logic, kain cant killwolverine either because kain isnt part of eternity and the phoenix force and all the marvel abstracts and the creators and hence wolverine's life force is in the hands and decisions of being outside kain's reality. that is COMPLETELY false, it is one of the rules of any vs thread that both the charactrs are in a universe where both their powers and basic abstracts and etities and phenomenon exist, otherwise, there can be no fight!!!!! it dosnt matter what the creators of legacy of kain made kain, even the phenomenon which give him his power are connected to A planet, and hence are far far far below anything done in the xenosaga verse. as such, udo will destroy him, his planet , the pillar of balance, the entire timeile, he will rip apart space time itself and destroy the entire universe. goodbye puny kain.

and no, xenosaga characters wud not be subject to the circle of death and souls and rebirth that exists in legacy of kain as that is a puny system while that in xenosaga is beyond universal, hence the two can not even be compared{just like a god of death, say in the street fighter universe will never compare to the multiversal death that exists in vertigo. easily compareable power levels}

i have played all the legacy of kain games, more than once. but that was a long time ago, after i finished defiance for a second time, i didnt touch them again. doesnt matter whether kain is SCION or guardian,{not so much of a difference at all, thing is the only thing that gives him power over other guardians is the fact that he has the controlling role over all of them} u-do will wipe out nosgoth{as its just a planet} and everything that gives kain power. kain was not BORN immortal, he was dying and vorador made him a vampire. scions and guardians can perform their role as protectors even in spirit form at time. doesnt matter, the very being that controls the entire cycle of death and birth, the elder god will be killed in heartbeat by udo. please do not try to pull the "no1 but a creator can destroy nosgoth" crap. its a planet, any1 above planet buster level can destroy it.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^lmao!!!!!!!!!!!! those arguments are worse than gs !!!!! oh you poor poor boy, going by that logic, kain cant killwolverine either because kain isnt part of eternity and the phoenix force and all the marvel abstracts and the creators and hence wolverine's life force is in the hands and decisions of being outside kain's reality. that is COMPLETELY false, it is one of the rules of any vs thread that both the charactrs are in a universe where both their powers and basic abstracts and etities and phenomenon exist, otherwise, there can be no fight!!!!! it dosnt matter what the creators of legacy of kain made kain, even the phenomenon which give him his power are connected to A planet, and hence are far far far below anything done in the xenosaga verse. as such, udo will destroy him, his planet , the pillar of balance, the entire timeile, he will rip apart space time itself and destroy the entire universe. goodbye puny kain.

and no, xenosaga characters wud not be subject to the circle of death and souls and rebirth that exists in legacy of kain as that is a puny system while that in xenosaga is beyond universal, hence the two can not even be compared{just like a god of death, say in the street fighter universe will never compare to the multiversal death that exists in vertigo. easily compareable power levels}

i have played all the legacy of kain games, more than once. but that was a long time ago, after i finished defiance for a second time, i didnt touch them again. doesnt matter whether kain is SCION or guardian,{not so much of a difference at all, thing is the only thing that gives him power over other guardians is the fact that he has the controlling role over all of them} u-do will wipe out nosgoth{as its just a planet} and everything that gives kain power. kain was not BORN immortal, he was dying and vorador made him a vampire. scions and guardians can perform their role as protectors even in spirit form at time. doesnt matter, the very being that controls the entire cycle of death and birth, the elder god will be killed in heartbeat by udo. please do not try to pull the "no1 but a creator can destroy nosgoth" crap. its a planet, any1 above planet buster level can destroy it.


no you miss the point, your not talking fictional, your taling about creators but the creators have put a line in the fiction that makes time immutable, theres nothing U-DO or any other that can break the time line, and when has U-DO done any of this stuff at all? he wont kill anything in Nosgoth, nor can he kill kain

false, just because their multiveral or ominversal does not ake a diffrent to rules, if they were in Nosgoth, they would be subject to the rules and Elder God would spin them in the wheel of fate

theres a diffrence, and thats the scion simply cannot die. His sword give him power, the only thing he would lose without Nosgoth is perhaps the infnite magic bonus although i tihnk he even has his own emblem, since all of the emblems create the balance emblem together so maybe he would have all his bonuses, U-DO would have to take the Reaver from kain to take away his main powers

Vorador made him a vampire wtf? Mortanius made him a vampire.....with the heart of darkness which is a massive part of the entire series, since when did Vorador make kain a vampire? .......i admit ive not played Bo 1 for years myself so if ive missed Vorador doing it ime sorry but this doesnt sound true at all unless you can show me the evidence, Mortanius takes kain from the underworld and makes him a vampire...

no not anyone at all can destroy nosgoth, its protected by a fictional immutable timeline, which is a rule slapped down by the creators, you cant break a rule in a fiction jsut because your a God for the sake of the title thank you very much especially if it a special rule enforced in LOK, no one will be destroying Nosgoth, U-DO would not touch EG, only kain with the reaver can, its a plot device being, U-DO would not even be aware of the EG

you seem to talk very highly of U-DO who so far from what ive seen has destroyed one galaxy in an alternate future reality, your knowledge of LOK seems haisy at the very least

^complete and utter falsehood. when a vs is done both universes are subject to change/destruction in part or full depending on the FEATS shown by the characters of the other universe. otherwise there can be no battle. i know why you havent commented on the wolverine example, because you KNOW how ridiculous it sounds if we go by your logic and say that wolverine is unkillable by any1 outside marvel. you are bringing bogus arguments into a vs thread. please desist from doing so. udo will destroy kain and nosgoth and the entire universe in which nosgoth exists in the blink of an eye if it will. that is how valid power levels are compared. the argument that "ZOMG, LIVING TRIBUNAL HAS NO AUTHORITY OVER DC HENCE HE LOSES TO BATMAN ZOMG!" doesnt work in versus forums. kain loses, complete mismatch.

u-do didnt destroy a galaxy, a simple exchange between KOSMOS and udo destroed three galaxies. otherwise , udo can consume all of existance and is more powerful than the sum total of the lower domains of real and imaginary space and the collective unconcious of the entire multiverse.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^complete and utter falsehood. when a vs is done both universes are subject to change/destruction in part or full depending on the FEATS shown by the characters of the other universe. otherwise there can be no battle. i know why you havent commented on the wolverine example, because you KNOW how ridiculous it sounds if we go by your logic and say that wolverine is unkillable by any1 outside marvel. you are bringing bogus arguments into a vs thread. please desist from doing so. udo will destroy kain and nosgoth and the entire universe in which nosgoth exists in the blink of an eye if it will. that is how valid power levels are compared. the argument that "ZOMG, LIVING TRIBUNAL HAS NO AUTHORITY OVER DC HENCE HE LOSES TO BATMAN ZOMG!" doesnt work in versus forums. kain loses, complete mismatch.

nothing especially time is immutable is marvel and TOAA protects what it feels is worthy, so Wolverine is fair game for kain or any other character, you lose the point completly

same with your pointless DC argument, altho Batman would wtfpwn LT with a batkick, all 3 of its faces would smash

but i agree there, Kain does lose and this is a mismatch, but i sitll want to see 123Kids view on this since he created it, and i dont know why he would make a mismatch if this is such especially if he knows the capabilities of U-DO, prob spite

Originally posted by leonheartmm
u-do didnt destroy a galaxy, a simple exchange between KOSMOS and udo destroed three galaxies. otherwise , udo can consume all of existance and is more powerful than the sum total of the lower domains of real and imaginary space and the collective unconcious of the entire multiverse.

id like to see these several galaxies please, and all this he can consume all excistence as well, can you show me all this information please

all right but the consume existence part
you made that up and it's flatly disproved by canon
also it should be noted it is never directly stated U-DO is stronger than the total of all the lower universes but is a logical presumption based on the fact he resides in a dimension above all of them and thus his higher should be greater than all of them

One thing you all should know about Leon is that he comes up with the weirdest theories for characters, that only make sense to him.

Originally posted by Burning thought
"shrug" if U-DO IS god then his creating the world in 7 days is a horrible feat and he must be damn weak, hes just a God in a fiction

"shrug" well wether kain can die or not is regardless in a debate because we dont know what can kill him, only throw in a guess or so, i dont see anything that can kill kain if the rules state he cant die, Amy herring i suppose could kill kain, she could change something in the story, infact that could happen conisdering the last game wasnt out for ages ago so maybe theyll retcon the story but both kain and other seemingly unkillable beings can be defeated for sure

God created the world in no time at all. He created the details in 7 days. He had a sense of detail.

Originally posted by Lady Fox
God created the world in no time at all. He created the details in 7 days. He had a sense of detail.

7 days is ages, for a God who is supposedly the 3 O's

sigh, no i did NOT, that is based on dimitri uriev's and albedo's contact with udo where they saw u-do destroying all existance, which created the fear of udo in them resulting in everything dimitri and albedo did.

furthermore, if you remember correctly, once abel;s ark manifested in the real world and abel appeared in zarathustra, a wave pattern was blasted thoughout the entire umn, the lemegeton program, also based on chaos's words due to udo, which was leading to the gnosification of every1 in the universe and leading their opposing WILLS to destroy and consume it. i say again, the only ral unexplained thing here is u-do's connection with chaos due to which the problems of understanding arise.

they did not see U-DO destroying the universe



thats because the power of Abel's Ark was released due to the party and Wilhelm
it wasn't U-DO's intent at all
and it wasn't Lemegeton it was something different

Originally posted by Burning thought
7 days is ages, for a God who is supposedly the 3 O's

The titans could form Azeroth in days/weeks. Yet it took them years.

He just has a sense of details and does not rush

yes they did. that is where the fear of u-do comes from. it was stated in the encyclpedia and it was stated in game when dimitre is discussed. cant see how u missed that.




true it may not have been INTENT but udo was responsible for it nonetheless as the source. and it was lemegeton, this was said in the cutscene itself.

Originally posted by Lady Fox
The titans could form Azeroth in days/weeks. Yet it took them years.

He just has a sense of details and does not rush

"shrug" the titans are not omnipotent or anything godlike, their no more than giants with various powers, but nothing on Gods

God himself wouldnt have to worry about rushing, he could in an instant if his supposed to be all powerful, he would create the greatest detail far more than what we see here or equel to it in less than a whim if he was so powerful

instead he took 7 days hes nothing

anyhow, kain is more comparebale to kratos than any1 else, infact i think ill make a thread on that

what lol? its prob been done or done to death, kain wins every time

put Kain VS the greek Gods or something, hed own them all if its maxiumum kain so make some ajustemnets to kain so he cant do all his powers