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apoc steps on juggernauts shoe causing an unremovable scuff mark. then he slaps hulks juicebox out his hand spilling it on the floor..WHO WINS???

Either the Hulk or Juggernaut can solo Apoc sans a BFR.

Apocalypse.

He'd teleport away, grow gigantic, morph his arm into a rail gun, and bombard Hulk and Jugs from afar. They'd never lay a hand on Apocalypse unless he decided to fist fight, and even then he's their superior and has more options at his disposal, as well as the ability to become either intangible, have extreme elasticity so that their blows cause no damage on impact, or morph around their punches. He could also morph part of his body into a sonic emitter and down them via sensory overload.

He could also knock off Juggs helmet give him a brain whammy and turn it into a two one one against Hulk.

http://en.marveldatabase.com/En_Sabah_Nur_%28Earth-616%29#Powers_and_Abilities

Originally posted by illadelph12
Apocalypse.

He'd teleport away, grow gigantic, morph his arm into a rail gun, and bombard Hulk and Jugs from afar. They'd never lay a hand on Apocalypse unless he decided to fist fight, and even then he's their superior and has more options at his disposal, as well as the ability to become either intangible, have extreme elasticity so that their blows cause no damage on impact, or morph around their punches. He could also morph part of his body into a sonic emitter and down them via sensory overload.
All that stuff wouldent do anything to the team...Maybe the sonic emitter would stop the Juggernaut. Anyways I never seen Apoc do anything morphing into a sonic watever to my knowledge.

Originally posted by golem370
He could also knock off Juggs helmet give him a brain whammy and turn it into a two one one against Hulk.
Apoc never even shown to have mind controlling abilities.

He's morphed into various energy weapons, laser canons, mini-guns, pistons, space ships, sub-marines, etc. It's perfectly feasible. He can and has morphed his arms into various energy weapons as well as simply firing blasts from his hands. Alos his defensive capabilities trump anything Juggernaut or Hulk can output given that virtually all they have are physical assaults which will do them absolutely no good against Apocalypse for reasons I outlined above. He can negate any assault they attempt, as well as the fact that Apocalypse can bombard them from afar and can fly.

Apocalypse would slaughter them due to their lack of versatility.

Originally posted by Priest
All that stuff wouldent do anything to the team...Maybe the sonic emitter would stop the Juggernaut. Anyways I never seen Apoc do anything morphing into a sonic watever to my knowledge.


Apoc never even shown to have mind controlling abilities.



http://static.mojefotke.si/1ddaf62cdef62ccb2b33fc87e80c52a32887b5f7.JPG
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/psionic53.png
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/1774/exodusorigin13kw0.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/powers10.png

What the hell are you talking about? He's a stronger telepath than Exodus.

Team FTW.

Originally posted by Laguna L
Team FTW.

Based on what? Apocalypse jobbing? Cause that's the only way they'll beat him. A non-jobbing Apocalypse would easily annihilate these 2.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest


He's a stronger telepath than Exodus.

Bullshit.

Get that outta here.

He CREATED Exodus and gave him his powers. And he was the one who bitchslapped him and put him in suspended animation for over 1000 years.

Apocalypse granted Exodus his telepathy :/

Don't bother Trickster.

We both know the outcome.

Originally posted by illadelph12
He's morphed into various energy weapons, laser canons, mini-guns, pistons, space ships, sub-marines, etc. It's perfectly feasible. He can and has morphed his arms into various energy weapons as well as simply firing blasts from his hands. Alos his defensive capabilities trump anything Juggernaut or Hulk can output given that virtually all they have are physical assaults which will do them absolutely no good against Apocalypse for reasons I outlined above. He can negate any assault they attempt, as well as the fact that Apocalypse can bombard them from afar and can fly.

Apocalypse would slaughter them due to their lack of versatility.
Apoc can morph his body to any kind of weapon but never morphed into a sonic anything.. I'm just saying this because GL's are said that they can do anything..I think both statements are pretty general and not completely feasible.
In any case, IF Apoc had displayed any type of sonic abilities like how Nimrod has done, Juggernaut would go down.

But what about the Hulk?
How would Apoc beat this guy. He not gonna restrain him this time around because the Hulk has grown much much more stronger than his past appearances before planet hulk. Unless Apoc can hold a planet together he's not gonna do jack to the HULK physically.

I don't see Apocalypse beating the Hulk with his weaponry either.
Nukes doesn't hurt or stop the Hulk, Apoc's guns aren't either.

Telepathy won't work either, Xavier and Emma Frost try'd that and failed miserably.

So what is Apocalypse left with?
Avoiding the Hulk and making this match a stalemate possibly..

You say that Apocalypse SLAUGHTERS because of his versatility.
I disagree, he may be versatile. BUT just because one is versatile he is not always POWERFUL.
Thor and The Silver Surfer are versatile and Powerful. Apoc on the other hand is versatile but not nearly as powerful.
This fight is anything but a slaughter because APOC has no means by putting the hulk down due to his greater durability, healing factor, and superior strength.

Well, to be honest, it's still a slaughter, because, as I stated before, Apocalypse can simply make himself intangible so that Hulk's blows have no effect, take on a consistency like rubber so that the impacts of Hunk's punches have no effect, or simply out maneuver Hulk either via teleportation or flight. Hulk has no offense that can effect Apocalypse. All he has is strength which Apocalypse can negate in many ways.

As for putting Hulk down, I'm not sure whether you're aware of this or not, but Apocalypse has the ability to absorb energy from external sources, be they artificial sources or bio energy. He could drain Hulk:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/powers6.png

Similar to how he drained Cyclops here in the scan above.

And before you pose the "but Cyclops was firing on Apocalypse" argument, if you notice in the first panel the blast is striking Apocalypse with zero effect. In the second panel Apocalypse extends his hand and forcibly extracts the "bio-energy" from Cyclops. Now, Hulk is essentially a walking Gamma reactor, and as shown by Surfer and various other characters, his energy can be siphoned as well. Apocalypse also has intimate knowledge of Hulk's abilities and power source, coupled with the ability to morph his body into advanced weaponry and machinery, and the ability to absorb, or forcibly extract, energy from external sources.

He would slaughter Hulk.

And also, to counter your obvious retort of "It's not like Hulk is going to just stand there and let Apocalypse drain him, he'll attack Apocalypse", Apocalypse also has the ability to erect powerful forcefields and teleport. Hulk will never lay a hand on him unless he wants him to.

This isn't a comic battle.

Apocalypse easily trumps Hulk, all abilities at play.

Brains over brawn.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/powers11.png

Anyone who's been a Horseman loses by default. SINCE MOST OF THEM WERE ALREADY BEATEN BY APOCALYPSE AND HE HAS INTIMATE KNOWLEDGE OF THEIR POWERS AND WEAKNESSES.

And seriously, if he put Hulk in a chokehold and beats up guys like Ikaris, what's stopping him from just using anti-gamma weaponry to shut down Hulk's powers?

Originally posted by Priest
This fight is anything but a slaughter because APOC has no means by putting the hulk down due to his greater durability, healing factor, and superior strength.

Apocalypse's healing factor is just as good as Hulk's.

And physically, Apocalypse isn't that outmatched. Apocalypse has already shown capable of augmenting his strength and durability by (apparently) manipulating his mass at will. Basically, he can become stronger and more durable as he wishes due to his body control. At his best, Apocalypse has shown capable of withstanding attacks from X-Factor, Inhumans, including Black Bolt without sustaining injury..... and no Apoc wasn't empowered at that point; that's just some serious speculations.

Originally posted by Priest
Apoc can morph his body to any kind of weapon but never morphed into a sonic anything.. I'm just saying this because GL's are said that they can do anything..I think both statements are pretty general and not completely feasible.
In any case, IF Apoc had displayed any type of sonic abilities like how Nimrod has done, Juggernaut would go down.

Nimrod... technology from the near future.(let's not forget the present day X-MAN nullifying tech employed during his series, think it rendered them immune to tp/tk, iirc.... not related to this particular fight though.). Apocalypse celestial technology, knowledge far in advance of modern science, genius intellect, centuries of knowledge, ability to morph into any mechanical or chemical weapon. Can and does plans things through, showing he can prep. Is usually up to date on the goings and events taking place around the world.



As previously stated in this thread, he drains away his gamma powers ala surfer, I mean doom has a device that can even drain the surfer/xman in his basement and that is present tech. Apoc can morph his body into complex machinery, or build it out of celestial tech.(prep time, he's a genius too!), he already can absorb mass and energy from external sources by himself, as previously stated




Teleports hulk across vast distances into outer space. I'm sure he has speed too. And while I'm not up to date in hulk comics, I'm sure that comic has its own hulk neutralizing tech present day elite soldiers somewhere(xman had such, and the xmen have those mutant power cancelling collars.).



HE can port the hulk away into outer space, if there's any present day tech in hulk's comic able to handle/subdue him apoc should be able to do similar, it's probable he can absorb hulk's gamma rays, either through his energy absorption, or some technological device(as previously stated).

He can also shape shift into his friends, and using tk knowledge of them along with psychology(apoc's a master brainwasher/mind-manipulator) calm him down or subdue him. Once he's in banner state he can die.

Apoc likely has superspeed too... though not sure there's panel evidence for that.

Dunnoh about accuracy but found this in wiki

Apoc could morph his back, feet, or any other part of his body into a warp drive or rocket thrusters and speed blitz them. He has, on panel, morphed a portion of his body into a space craft and flown in space.

Hell, to gain more velocity on his punches Apoc could morph the back of his elbow into a thruster and launch his fist at Hulk at mach speeds, while simultaneously morphing his hand into a spike, blade, drill, or plasma torch, and simply impale Hulk. Form there he could morph his hand/arm which is inside Hulk into a giant mechanical spreader and rip Hulk apart internally (and this can be done with one arm). He could morph the other arm into a restraint.

Not to mention the fact Apoc can always grow to 50+ feet tall and weighing several hundred tons and simply punt Hulk across the planet. Hulk is 7.5 feet tall and weighs under a ton. Apoc could soccer kick Hulk like a nerf ball if he wished. All the anger in the world doesn't counter the fact Hulk only weighs 1,400 lbs. Far too many options for Apoc to defeat Hulk. All Hulk has is his physical strength which Apoc can match or negate.

I read all this and then I think...its Apoc.

Case closed.

I heard Apoc can also manip the energies in him to enhance his reflexes to combat people with superspeed. Anyway, I think he wins.

Nimrod's technology is reverse-engineered from 2nd-hand celestial tech.

And he has upped his reflexes and speed to be able to counter a blitz from Quicksilver. While he was dying.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Apoc could morph his back, feet, or any other part of his body into a warp drive or rocket thrusters and speed blitz them. He has, on panel, morphed a portion of his body into a space craft and flown in space.

Hell, to gain more velocity on his punches Apoc could morph the back of his elbow into a thruster and launch his fist at Hulk at mach speeds, while simultaneously morphing his hand into a spike, blade, drill, or plasma torch, and simply impale Hulk. Form there he could morph his hand/arm which is inside Hulk into a giant mechanical spreader and rip Hulk apart internally (and this can be done with one arm). He could morph the other arm into a restraint.

Not to mention the fact Apoc can always grow to 50+ feet tall and weighing several hundred tons and simply punt Hulk across the planet. Hulk is 7.5 feet tall and weighs under a ton. Apoc could soccer kick Hulk like a nerf ball if he wished. All the anger in the world doesn't counter the fact Hulk only weighs 1,400 lbs. Far too many options for Apoc to defeat Hulk. All Hulk has is his physical strength which Apoc can match or negate.

However, if Apoc tries to do that (either the rocket thruster move or the size-changing move+punting) to even a walking Juggernaut, Apoc will be very much out of luck. Just saying.

Apocalypse kills the Hulk and BFRs the Juggernaut.

Apocalypse probably wins... BUT this:
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
He's a stronger telepath than Exodus. is pure and utter bullshit.

Apocalypse has less telepathic feats than Emma Frost has telekinetic, only one of which - if even telepathic - is at all impressive.

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/9914/93421844ou4.th.jpg
The fifth is Emma Frost, Apocalypse doesn't even come to mind.

That not really saying much that picture of Apocalypse and Hulk because a much weaker person could take down a bigger person with enough skill and smarts. The Hulk has spoken in space and under water yet in that scan he coughs after there struggle.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
However, if Apoc tries to do that (either the rocket thruster move or the size-changing move+punting) to even a walking Juggernaut, Apoc will be very much out of luck. Just saying.

To attack Juggernaut Apocalypse could:

1) Teleport to Juggs's position, rip his helmet off, and mentally assault him.
2) Teleport to Juggs's Position, rip his helmet off, with his other hand morph into a sonic weapon and down Cain via sensory overload.
3) Grow to 50+ feet tall, grab Juggernaut, and throw him around like a football into every object on the planet, or simply toss him into space.
4) Grow to 50+ feet tall, grab and restrain Juggernaut in one hand, use the thumb and index finger on his other hand to remove Juggernaut's helmet, then morph that free hand into a gigantic sonic weapon and bombard Cain at point blank range with high frequency sonics.
5) If Juggernaut chooses to charge Apocalypse Nur could simply teleport behind him at the last moment and punt him from behind using Cain's own momentum against him.
6) Apocalypse could morph his hand into a plasma torch and slag the ground Juggernaut stands on into lava, then remove Cain's helmet and repeat the final actions of options 1 thru 4.
7) Apocalypse can try to batter Juggernaut physically to no effect, grow tired of it, then remove Cain's helmet and mentally enslave him to become one of his Horsemen/Riders as he did Caliban or The Inhumans.
8) Grab Juggernaut, morph into a giant mechanical catapult, and launch him.

Attacking Juggernaut by charging or striking him head on would be foolish. Apocalypse know's Cain's abilities and has all the necessary tools to counter him.

i would love to see a actual bio from marvel about apocalypse....not a site which fans can edit

I think Apocalypse wins, but i think there are way to many scans that dont prove anything being thrown around, there are no definetive scans, only what people think or assume is actually going on and can be explained in a number of ways

About Apocalypse draining WWH, speculation, since we haven'st seen that he could do that to WWH for what he did to Scott (he didn't show to pull the energy out of Cyclops).

I think Apocalypse could win, but then again, I had to see yet what kind of power level needs to put down the WWH.
And what has Apocalypse shown, his destructive power that could put down the WWH due to what WWH has faced, because WWH wasn't close to being put down.
What is Apocalypse biggest brute force feat?
Not enough to put WWH down.

Team wins

Originally posted by Xplosive
About Apocalypse draining WWH, speculation, since we haven'st seen that he could do that to WWH for what he did to Scott (he didn't show to pull the energy out of Cyclops).

I think Apocalypse could win, but then again, I had to see yet what kind of power level needs to put down the WWH.
And what has Apocalypse shown, his destructive power that could put down the WWH due to what WWH has faced, because WWH wasn't close to being put down.
What is Apocalypse biggest brute force feat?
Not enough to put WWH down.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/powers6.png

In the scan I provided it clearly shows:

-Cyclops firing an optic blast on Apocalypse to no effect in the first panel.
-Apocalypse extending his hand into the incoming optic blast and absorbing it in the second panel, with the dialogue clearly stating that Apocalypse was taking Cyclops' "fresh bio energies".
-Apocalypse extracting Cyclop's energies in the third panel with an artistic rendition of Cyclops falling to the ground, severely weakened, due to being drained of his "bio energies" as it is being forcibly siphoned by Apocalypse.
-Phoenix stating in the 4th and 5th panels that by Apocalypse "making a conduit" between himself and Cyclops he left himself open to her psychic assault because she is telepathically linked to Scott, herego, the "conduit" which Apocalypse created between himself and Cyclops was not simply draining Scott's optic blasts, because, as stated by Apocalypse himself, he was extracting Scott's "bio energies", meaning life force, meaning in so doing he was absorbing Cyclops "essence" or "life force" if you will, not simply his optic blasts, because the conduit had psionic implications as well.

How many ways are there to interpret not only this clear image, but also what is clearly stated on panel in the dialogue?

But I digress.

I understand Apocalypse isn't the most popular character here on KMC and has many detractors, but when it gets to the point where people are so blinded to what's clearly taking place on panel due to bias and an agenda against a fictional character then debating this medium proves to be pointless (which was one of the main contributing factors to my previous hiatus from debating here on the forums).

If he can drain the life-force, then he should be able to put the WWH down.
But that is the only way he could put the WWH down.
I know about Apocalypse a lot and about his feats and I still want Marvel to show that Apocalypse has an extremely destructive power level (so that he could actually live up to his name).


Juggernaut should be no problem here for Apocalypse.

Life force?

Yeah he can drain the Summers Brothers life force but thats it.

Originally posted by strengthkills
Life force?

Yeah he can drain the Summers Brothers life force but thats it.

He doesn't have to take Hulk's life force. As I stated earlier, Hulk is essentially a walking Gamma Reactor and various other characters have siphoned his energy to weaken him (Surfer, US Army, Leader, etc), and Apocalypse can absorb (or forcibly extract) external energy sources, as well as simply morph his body into machinery or weaponry capable of doing so.

All while operating in the comfort and security of standing behind a self generated forcefield.

If you really think about it, Hulk's popularity and Apocalypse's enmity not withstanding, the outcome is obvious.

Originally posted by Xplosive
If he can drain the life-force, then he should be able to put the WWH down.
But that is the only way he could put the WWH down.
I know about Apocalypse a lot and about his feats and I still want Marvel to show that Apocalypse has an extremely destructive power level (so that he could actually live up to his name).


Well strange could have bfr hulk but chose not, and iirc apocalypse can not only teleport himself but others too. What's to stop apocalypse from teleporting near hulk, and using his superspeed reflexes to teleport hulk into outerspace?


There's also the fact he could transform into one of hulk's friends and use psychology with tp derived knowledge.

We also saw how the beam depowered wwh, and that is present day tech... theoretically something similar could be constructed, and if we assume the battle is after the events of wwh. He would have knowledge of that event, and its conclusion.

APOC could rip the gem out of Cain

As pointed out, Hulk radiates gamma, that's there for Apocalypse to take. If he takes it too fast then he winds up fighting Bruce, if he siphons slowly as Hulk's anger builds then he should be able to match him. I've seen a weakened Apocalypse fear Black Bolt but I though regular Apoc's laughed Black Bolt's best off before?

How does anyone talk in space? There's no air to transmit sound so Surfer talking with BRB or whoever is odd. Short-ranged telepathy? They don't use radio's...

Apocalypse though enough of Juggernaut's power (as the X-Men's most powerful non-mutant foe) to amp up Hulk with Celestial Tech for a test match...and then he goes on to declare that they're still both beneath him.

OOC who is the fifth telepath in Exodus' scan? He only names 4 (himself, Sinister, Phoenix, Prof X)?

Emma Frost.

(Also I've only seen Apocalypse phase once, I think it was just his fingertips shown, never seen this repeated - which makes it a rather SvFL feat. Mystique has phased her entire upper body through a wall once, but it really shouldn't be considered a regular power of hers unless she does it again at least a few times.)

Hah, he's like a twinked character that the player keeps forgetting has all of these various powers by extension of his primary ability (molecular control).

Thanks x!

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Emma Frost.

(Also I've only seen Apocalypse phase once, I think it was just his fingertips shown, never seen this repeated - which makes it a rather SvFL feat. Mystique has phased her entire upper body through a wall once, but it really shouldn't be considered a regular power of hers unless she does it again at least a few times.)

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Emma Frost.

(Also I've only seen Apocalypse phase once, I think it was just his fingertips shown, never seen this repeated - which makes it a rather SvFL feat. Mystique has phased her entire upper body through a wall once, but it really shouldn't be considered a regular power of hers unless she does it again at least a few times.)

This is just pure bias :/

Apocalypse has very few appearances compared to Mystique or Emma Frost. If he displays telepathy in 3/20 cases, it's a lot more feasible than Emma displaying telekinesis in 5/5000 cases. Even you must understand this. Must Apocalypse display telepathy in every damn appearance before you're willing to accept it?

You seem to write off a power as PIS if it's only used once...

He has only twenty showings?

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
He has only twenty showings?

No and Emma Frost has more than 5000 appearances, it was just an example.

Apocalypse's telepathic showings make up a larger majority of his power showings than Emma Frost's telekinetic showings.

Originally posted by llagrok
This is just pure bias :/

Apocalypse has very few appearances compared to Mystique or Emma Frost. If he displays telepathy in 3/20 cases, it's a lot more feasible than Emma displaying telekinesis in 5/5000 cases. Even you must understand this. Must Apocalypse display telepathy in every damn appearance before you're willing to accept it?

You seem to write off a power as PIS if it's only used once... One-off powers generally aren't considered to be regular powers.

One phasing feat and suddenly he's Shadowcat?

He still has over a hundred appearances and in those he's had a mind reading feat (and even with that apparently he didn't do a very good job since Ozymandias has kept secrets) and a possible questionable maybe-psiblast. Neither of which justifies saying he's a telepath of the highest order. Neither of which really justifies saying he has telepathy at all.
He's unable to access the Astral Plane of his own accord, despite this being rudimentary to any skilled telepath.
Not a single bio states he has telepathy, one specifically states he doesn't.
There are five telepaths capable of pulling off the Destiny Diaries; Apocalypse if he's even considered a telepath isn't one of them.

Bias would be saying his one or two telepathic displays makes him superior or equal to other characters who have hundreds to thousands of times more feats to justify that 1) they are a telepath at all and 2) that they are a first order telepath. Bias would be ignoring that this has been brought up multiple times and still trying to spread misinformation like someone at the start of this thread.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
One-off powers generally aren't considered to be regular powers.

One phasing feat and suddenly he's Shadowcat?

Uh, having complete control over your atomic structure doesn't allow you alter your density?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
He's unable to access the Astral Plane of his own accord, despite this being rudimentary to any skilled telepath.

Irrelevant, I'd say, since Apocalypse displayed his claimed mental feats at the exact same time (in 1996).

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Not a single bio states he has telepathy

Not a single bio states that Apocalypse has energy projection...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
one specifically states he doesn't.

And that one is horribly dated.

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
Uh, having complete control over your atomic structure doesn't allow you alter your density?It may. It's still a one-off occurrence being presented as if it's a consistently used power.

This of course alongside the constant using of recent showings that Apocalypse fan's like, while ignoring more recent lower showings. Then amalgamating them into some hypothetical being "Classic Apocalypse."
Originally posted by Bad Ash231
Irrelevant, I'd say, since Apocalypse displayed his claimed mental feats at the exact same time (in 1996). The Twelve was in 2000 iirc so you're not referring to that I presume, which leaves the incomplete mind-reading feat. There isn't really any discrepancy between being able to accomplish a single relatively basic telepathic feat and not being able to enter the Astral Plane.

There's also the instance where he reacts to Jean's telepathy as a novelty. So there's really as many instances if not more of him appearing to not have telepathy at all as there are of him displaying some telepathic ability.
Originally posted by Bad Ash231
Not a single bio states that Apocalypse has energy projection...
And that one is horribly dated. The point that telepathy is not mentioned in bios in itself doesn't provide any basis for or against him having telepathy, alongside the other points though it does. So that's a somewhat false analogy.

He hasn't consistently displayed telepathy, and the few times he has it's been ambiguous and/or provides no real gauge as to the level of skill nor power.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
One-off powers generally aren't considered to be regular powers.

One phasing feat and suddenly he's Shadowcat?

He still has over a hundred appearances and in those he's had a mind reading feat (and even with that apparently he didn't do a very good job since Ozymandias has kept secrets) and a possible questionable maybe-psiblast. Neither of which justifies saying he's a telepath of the highest order. Neither of which really justifies saying he has telepathy at all.
He's unable to access the Astral Plane of his own accord, despite this being rudimentary to any skilled telepath.
Not a single bio states he has telepathy, one specifically states he doesn't.
There are five telepaths capable of pulling off the Destiny Diaries; Apocalypse if he's even considered a telepath isn't one of them.

Bias would be saying his one or two telepathic displays makes him superior or equal to other characters who have hundreds to thousands of times more feats to justify that 1) they are a telepath at all and 2) that they are a first order telepath. Bias would be ignoring that this has been brought up multiple times and still trying to spread misinformation like someone at the start of this thread.

This is outright bias.

We use all kinds of one time feats for powers and abilities, and you have the gall to denounce a one use from Apoc as SMvsFL?

He gave Exodus his powers and one-shotted him. That speaks volumes.

And don't you dare bring up the Astral plane feat from Onslaught. He didn't say he needed Cable's help to access the astral plane. He said he needed Cable's help to PHYSICALLY TELEPORT to the astral plane.

at the bottom.. teleporting himself (if anyone is skeptic :P)

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1186/cable03509ns6wr8.th.jpg


and yes.. some are comparing apocalypse with wwh which could be a bit unfair

maybe this one should win this battle
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/cyclopase.png
thnks badash for this scan :P

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/ApocalypseTwelve.jpg


apocalypse with control over space and time should win hulk and juggernaut

anyway apoc could teleport hulk to another place and removing him from battle. It's just a matter of being creative with his bunch of powers
byee

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
This is outright bias. Funny.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
We use all kinds of one time feats for powers and abilities,Maybe you do.Originally posted by TricksterPriest
and you have the gall to denounce a one use from Apoc as SMvsFL? One-time feats shouldn't really be used in general - that's the point of the SvFL and PIS rules. Otherwise they wouldn't be there...
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
He gave Exodus his powers and one-shotted him. That speaks volumes. Regardless of how much you think it speaks volumes, it says nothing of any telepathic ability. He has a mind-reading feat where he technically still failed to learn of Ozymandias' secrets, and a possible psiblast which in itself gives no gauge of telepathic skill or power, while being amplified by external technology which further makes the feat questionable if it was even telepathy.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
And don't you dare bring up the Astral plane feat from Onslaught. He didn't say he needed Cable's help to access the astral plane. He said he needed Cable's help to PHYSICALLY TELEPORT to the astral plane. Actually all he says is that "only one man has the power to take me there", the man being Cable and the there being the Astral Plane. It doesn't make any reference to physicality - if they wanted to enter the Citadel physically they could have. So it's a perfectly accurate description to say he needs a telepath capable of accessing the Astral Plane to take him there. Feel free to show proof positive that he can access the Astral Plane on his own power though.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Huh? They were standing outside Onslaughts Citadel at the beginning of the issue before they even entered the Astral Plane. They could have entered it head on...but they would have been caught.
The idea behind entering the Astral Plane was to enter his fortress undetected as Apocalypse said. But as shown below they failed...they were noticed the moment they entered Onslaughts fortress.

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/5544/cable03503vy7.th.jpg
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/5064/cable03513zs3.th.jpg

Onslaughts Citadel is located "Outside the Astral Plane"

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/3316/cable03514qr1.th.jpghttp://img91.imageshack.us/img91/2040/cable03515ik1.th.jpg

Onslaughts Citadel was unique in the sense that...it was built out of Solidified Telepathic Energy and could be accessed both from the Physical Realm and The Astral Realm. It was lying in an inbetween...that's presumbly how Susan and Apocalypse could use their powers in their as that inbetween realm consisted of solidified thought... I mean Onslaught in his citadel created solid thought manifestations of the Hulk and Magneto...I'm not entirely sure how that worked...
When Onslaught throws them out, they land back in the same place they started:

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7342/cable03521jg9.th.jpg

TOO MANY apoc doubters

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Funny.
Maybe you do.One-time feats shouldn't really be used in general - that's the point of the SvFL and PIS rules. Otherwise they wouldn't be there...
Regardless of how much you think it speaks volumes, it says nothing of any telepathic ability. He has a mind-reading feat where he technically still failed to learn of Ozymandias' secrets, and a possible psiblast which in itself gives no gauge of telepathic skill or power, while being amplified by external technology which further makes the feat questionable if it was even telepathy.
Actually all he says is that "only one man has the power to take me there", the man being Cable and the there being the Astral Plane. It doesn't make any reference to physicality - if they wanted to enter the Citadel physically they could have. So it's a perfectly accurate description to say he needs a telepath capable of accessing the Astral Plane to take him there. Feel free to show proof positive that he can access the Astral Plane on his own power though.

Hater. mhm

Originally posted by batdude123
Hater. mhm Magneto is the poos. mhm

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Magneto is the poos. mhm

You're a jerk. cry

Originally posted by batdude123
You're a jerk. cry I'm sorry. Make up sex time? ermmhappy

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm sorry. Make up sex time? ermmhappy

Only if I'm the giver. lookaround

Originally posted by batdude123
Only if I'm the giver. lookaround The giver? Trying something new then, eh? vin

Originally posted by illadelph12
He doesn't have to take Hulk's life force. As I stated earlier, Hulk is essentially a walking Gamma Reactor and various other characters have siphoned his energy to weaken him (Surfer, US Army, Leader, etc), and Apocalypse can absorb (or forcibly extract) external energy sources, as well as simply morph his body into machinery or weaponry capable of doing so.

All while operating in the comfort and security of standing behind a self generated forcefield.

If you really think about it, Hulk's popularity and Apocalypse's enmity not withstanding, the outcome is obvious.

The Army did it in the the 60s and 70's,the Leader is to intelligence as Hulk is to strength,Surfer...Surfer is above Apoc in everyway(thats like me stating the Darwin example to debate Apoc's ability to drain energy).

Really if it boils down to it,all Apoc's abilities are based off of hearsay and imaginative thinking.Not once has Apoc shown the competance to pull off some of the stuff you've given him the ability to do.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f122/blaxican_templar/gaston.jpg

Hulk's gonna need them.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The giver? Trying something new then, eh? vin

I hear wonderful things about it. ermmhappy

Yeah.. I totally made that pic.

And Hulk wins by himself >.> <.<

apoc is Martian manhunter on steroids. the ONLY result of this bout is the three getting tired of each other's presents and going their separate ways(stalemate).

Originally posted by psycho gundam
apoc is Martian manhunter on steroids. the ONLY result of this bout is the three getting tired of each other's presents and going their separate ways(stalemate).
Well, except for the power to teleport others.(don't recall if this exhausts apocalypse...) Assuming apocalypse is not exhausted, and given his super speed reflexes, he should be able to teleport them to outer space, and port himself back leaving them stranded and floating there.

APOC DOESN'T GET FATIGUED