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Now this isn't a direct fight where we see is which would beat the other directly.

This is an overall power gauge of the two.

Now we know Silver Surfer doesn't hit as hard as non-holding back Superman. (Yes even an amped Silver Surfer would still be weaker than Superman)

We also know that Superman can not create a blast as strong as non-holding back Silver Surfer. (Yes HV isn't as good as the Power Cosmic)



So the question becomes which one possess the most damage output.

Parameters
A) They are bloodlusted

B) They are putting everything they have into this particular attack.


C) And for circumstances sake we will ignore things like energy vs blunt resistance. These attacks will be considered the same attack for this scenario.


So in this which one possess the most damage output.

I would say a Surfer blast, Supes back up his punch with momentum, speed and the fact that is harder to keep at bay a charging opponent, he is a very effective fighter but it doesn't come just from sheer strenght. I mean, Superman cannot really charge his punches and Surfer can charge his beams.

Superman has shown time and time again, that NO force in comics rivals his punching-power.

If its Superman Prime that is true.

Originally posted by Galan007
Superman has shown time and time again, that NO force in comics rivals his punching-power. Not in effectiveness.

Originally posted by Juntai
Not in effectiveness. Exactly!

I believe an all out blast from Silver Surfer would probably have a higher damage output than an all out/not holding back punch from Superman. However, that statement is considering the fact that energy projection is probably more potent than pure physical force. Therefore, if what you mean by "these attacks are the same" is we can channel the force of Supermans punch into pure energy, and measure who actually produces more power then i might be inclined to say Superman. Ultimately, im undecided, and will leave it up to the greater minds to figure this one out.

Originally posted by nimbus006
I believe an all out blast from Silver Surfer would probably have a higher damage output than an all out/not holding back punch from Superman. However, that statement is considering the fact that energy projection is probably more potent than pure physical force. Therefore, if what you mean by "these attacks are the same" is we can channel the force of Supermans punch into pure energy, and measure who actually produces more power then i might be inclined to say Superman. Ultimately, im undecided, and will leave it up to the greater minds to figure this one out.


Well I guess that's my cue... SS blasts are most definitely more powerful than a Supes punch both being bloodlust.


Carry on.

Surfer ftw.

Silver Surfer via because I said so.LOL

Surfer's blasts would destroy solar systems, imo. given how easily he destroyed a planet, whilst fighting Ravenous.

a not-holding back Surfer is something we've never yet seen in-continuity, I think. closest would probably be Exiles Surfer.


btw, Surfer amped up would far exceed Superman's strength, given that Superman is merely a solar battery whilst Surfer is a cosmic one .

Surfers blast is hands down better and more powerful than a superman punch

honestly depends on what they are hitting

I think i would edge it to supes

unless surfer is changing the area of his blast ( to like a quarter) It is gonna be too spread out to do much

Originally posted by janus77
Surfer's blasts would destroy solar systems, imo.

This man is a genius, folks.

Originally posted by Galan007
Superman has shown time and time again, that NO force in comics rivals his punching-power.

Batkick ftw

Originally posted by endrict
Batkick ftw
Bat kick doesnt rival it

Bat kick surpasses it

I'd say Surfer's blast, actually. Superman's punches are very powerful, but the properties behind a blast from Surfer exceed a punch. The punch is simply one extremely strong impact on one point of a surface. The blast contains near equal concussive force as the punch, as well as heat, radiation, and whatever other properties Surfer wishes to channel into it, and it will also engulf the target's entirety and strike at all points on the surface, or Surfer can fine tune the blast to be surgical and strike a particular point. Surfer can also custom make his blasts tailored for any target to bypass it's defenses, or simply disintegrate matter.

That's my opinion anyway.

Punches can shatter.

Blasts can vaporize.

Originally posted by batdude123
This man is a genius, folks.



Takes one to know one...?

Depends on the target.
Against regular objects that can't fight back? Probably Surfer.
Against characters? Superman by a landslide.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I'd say Surfer's blast, actually. Superman's punches are very powerful, but the properties behind a blast from Surfer exceed a punch. The punch is simply one extremely strong impact on one point of a surface. The blast contains near equal concussive force as the punch, as well as heat, radiation, and whatever other properties Surfer wishes to channel into it, and it will also engulf the target's entirety and strike at all points on the surface, or Surfer can fine tune the blast to be surgical and strike a particular point. Surfer can also custom make his blasts tailored for any target to bypass it's defenses, or simply disintegrate matter.

That's my opinion anyway.

Punches can shatter.

Blasts can vaporize.

Very true

Originally posted by Tony Stark
Takes one to know one...?



Irony...

Originally posted by Juntai
Depends on the target.
Against regular objects that can't fight back? Probably Surfer.
Against characters? Superman by a landslide.

Could you explain this theory?

Cuz if anything i would think its the other way around.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Bat kick doesnt rival it

Bat kick surpasses it


Touche!!

Originally posted by nimbus006
Could you explain this theory?

Cuz if anything i would think its the other way around. Check their history. It's pretty evident in the panels.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Bat kick doesnt rival it

Bat kick surpasses it

Let's look at how the stack up next to each other.

Superman's punch:

http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=su6qm6.jpg

Teh BATKICK!!11

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/1qb1.jpg

Originally posted by Juntai
Check their history. It's pretty evident in the panels.

From checking the panels it's pretty evident that Surfers blast >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Superman's punch.

Originally posted by batdude123
Let's look at how the stack up next to each other.

Superman's punch:

http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=su6qm6.jpg

Teh BATKICK!!11

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/1qb1.jpg Your scans defeated themselves.
"I cannot be moved unless I wish to be."


Also, he was invisible and intangible pretty much that entire Tales arc, he allowed Batman to see and touch him.... sort of like he explained to Superman.

Originally posted by Kutulu
From checking the panels it's pretty evident that Surfers blast >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Superman's punch. Really? Keep naming characters you've seen shrug off blows from Superman to no effect, then do the same for Surfer, without plot devices, and see which list is longer.

Originally posted by Juntai
Really? Keep naming characters you've seen shrug off blows from Superman to no effect, then do the same for Surfer, and see which list is longer.

Without context such a list would be meaningless.

I think that the Surfer should be capable of pouring ALL his power into a single blast. I doubt that Superman could pour all his energy and power into a single punch.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I'd say Surfer's blast, actually. Superman's punches are very powerful, but the properties behind a blast from Surfer exceed a punch. The punch is simply one extremely strong impact on one point of a surface. The blast contains near equal concussive force as the punch, as well as heat, radiation, and whatever other properties Surfer wishes to channel into it, and it will also engulf the target's entirety and strike at all points on the surface, or Surfer can fine tune the blast to be surgical and strike a particular point. Surfer can also custom make his blasts tailored for any target to bypass it's defenses, or simply disintegrate matter.

That's my opinion anyway.

Punches can shatter.

Blasts can vaporize.

I agree with what you're saying, but the thread starter said for the purposes of this debate both attacks are the same. Im assuming he means the energy released from both attacks are derived from the same form of energy thus allowing it to be measured/gaged somehow. Therefore, your argument although correct, i think does not apply.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Without context such a list would be meaningless.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Juntai
Your scans defeated themselves.
"I cannot be moved unless I wish to be."


Also, he was invisible and intangible pretty much that entire Tales arc, he allowed Batman to see and touch him.... sort of like he explained to Superman.

I was being facetious, you bastard.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Without context such a list would be meaningless. Not towards what I said- Superman's punches being more effective against characters.


Superman knocks-out and demolishes guys in tiers Surfer can't hang around in.

Originally posted by batdude123
Let's look at how the stack up next to each other.

Superman's punch:

http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=su6qm6.jpg

Teh BATKICK!!11

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/1qb1.jpg But has Batman ever saved the Omniverse by vibrating? durno

Originally posted by Galan007
But has Batman ever saved the Omniverse by vibrating? durno No, but he knocked out the guy in your sig once.

Originally posted by Juntai
No, but he knocked out the guy in your sig once. During RoA?

If so,
Metron didn't have his New God powers in that scene..... iirc.

Originally posted by Galan007
During RoA?

If so,
Metron didn't have his New God powers in that scene..... iirc. That's the one, but it's still a W.

Silver Surfer.

Originally posted by Juntai
That's the one, but it's still a W. Bollocks! vegetajv2

Originally posted by Galan007
Bollocks! vegetajv2 Who cares if he didn't even know he was about to be in a fistfight?

I'd say the better question would be which character has the most over all power. If one could drain each character and use thier max power to say power up a machine, then I'd go with Superman. He absorbed the power of maggeddon. His heat vision powered the engines of war world. Surfers powers are concentrated really in his blast, while Superman's are spread out. In power out put, Superman has the better record. Tho On paper they would seem Dead Even.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I'd say the better question would be which character has the most over all power. If one could drain each character and use thier max power to say power up a machine, then I'd go with Superman. He absorbed the power of maggeddon. His heat vision powered the engines of war world. Surfers powers are concentrated really in his blast, while Superman's are spread out. In power out put, Superman has the better record. Tho On paper they would seem Dead Even.

But you could also say Superman derives his power from the Sun while Surfer can absorb and use anything in the Universe that realeases energy for power.

Superman has also absorbed electricity to power himself up.

Originally posted by nimbus006
But you could also say Superman derives his power from the Sun while Surfer can absorb and use anything in the Universe that realeases energy for power.

NO. Surfer absorbs the power cosmic. HE tried to absorb a sun and went mad. he couldn't absorb magic. He can't absorb the power primordal or he would have done so against the runner.

Originally posted by nimbus006
But you could also say Superman derives his power from the Sun while Surfer can absorb and use anything in the Universe that realeases energy for power. It's tough to say though, Superman doesn't directly convert sun into energy, though it is his primary known source. The truth of it is, the sun can't supply enough energy to do the things Superman does. A second of sunlight can bring Clark from powerless to moon smashing badass in the time in takes to illuminate his body. However, a few rays of sun can barely power a calculator.

It also has been hinted that Superman draws energy from all around, and at other times, that he draws upon an infinite well of power to accomplish whatever he may need to. Literally whatever he sets his mind to do.

We've also seen him draw and absorb other energy sources on panel.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
NO. Surfer absorbs the power cosmic. HE tried to absorb a sun and went mad. he couldn't absorb magic. He can't absorb the power primordal or he would have done so against the runner. True. He tried to absorb a star once and couldn't. It was too much for him.

Originally posted by Juntai
True. He tried to absorb a star once and couldn't. It was too much for him. While we've seen Superman kill a being that ate stars for Kicks. Makes you wonder.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
NO. Surfer absorbs the power cosmic. HE tried to absorb a sun and went mad. he couldn't absorb magic. He can't absorb the power primordal or he would have done so against the runner.

He went mad b/c he tried to absorb the entire sun at once. Superman couldnt do that either. Surfer can still DRAW energy from ALMOST anything in the cosmos is what i meant to say.

And he CAN absorb the power primordal, he did it against that uni something creature IIRC.

Originally posted by Newjak
(Yes even an amped Silver Surfer would still be weaker than Superman)



An amped up Surfer is certainly stronger than Superman lol.

Originally posted by Madvillain
An amped up Surfer is certainly stronger than Superman lol.

No.

Originally posted by Juntai
We've also seen him draw and absorb other energy sources on panel.

Originally posted by batdude123
A completely depowered Superman absorbs electricity to restore his strength.

http://img256.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanabsorbselectricbr0.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanabsorbselectricoh5.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanabsorbselectriciw2.jpg

Originally posted by Madvillain
An amped up Surfer is certainly stronger than Superman lol. I'm pretty sure he was speaking physically, given the context. If you're voting in favor of Surfer in that regard, I'll require a slew of proof.
Grab your scans of Surfer in hand to hand combat, and I'll gladly consider them up against Superman.

Originally posted by batdude123
Good shit bro.

Originally posted by Juntai

We've also seen him draw and absorb other energy sources on panel.

My mistake, i thought Supes only absorbed energy from a Yellow Sun for purposes of increasing power.

Originally posted by nimbus006
My mistake, i thought Supes only absorbed energy from a Yellow Sun for purposes of increasing power. No problem.

Originally posted by Juntai
I'm pretty sure he was speaking physically, given the context. If you're voting in favor of Surfer in that regard, I'll require a slew of proof.
Grab your scans of Surfer in hand to hand combat, and I'll gladly consider them up against Superman.

I wouldn't even think of saying that Surfer is physically superior to Superman in any context.

Originally posted by nimbus006
I wouldn't even think of saying that Surfer is physically superior to Superman in any context. That wasn't to you, but glad to know you feel the same.

Funny, Thor can effectively do both.

Originally posted by Larceny
Funny, Thor can effectively do both. Do what?

Originally posted by Juntai
Do what?

Blast and punch/strike.

Originally posted by Larceny
Blast and punch/strike. True, but then again, so can tons of characters.

Originally posted by Juntai
True, but then again, so can tons of characters.

Rarely on the level of Thor, whom is near or at the pinnacle of both category's. At least as far as herald level is concerned.

Originally posted by Larceny
Rarely on the level of Thor, whom is near or at the pinnacle of both category's. At least as far as herald level is concerned.

Superman's HV is rediculous at times.

Originally posted by Larceny
Rarely on the level of Thor, whom is near or at the pinnacle of both category's. At least as far as herald level is concerned. You think his punch is higher than Superman's?

Originally posted by Larceny
Rarely on the level of Thor, whom is near or at the pinnacle of both category's. At least as far as herald level is concerned.

Kilowog
Lightray
Orion
Black Bolt
Superman

Off top of my head pretty much are in the same catagory.
And Thor is pretty much a step or two down from Superman in strength.

BRB is closer in strength to superman than Thor.

Originally posted by Juntai
You think his punch is higher than Superman's?

Didn't say that, however his punch/hammer strike is comparable.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Kilowog
Lightray
Orion
Black Bolt
Superman

Off top of my head pretty much are in the same catagory.
And Thor is pretty much a step or two down from Superman in strength.

BRB is closer in strength to superman than Thor.

This kid.

BRB and Thor have already been proven to be exact physical equals, right along with Hercules.

Originally posted by Larceny
Didn't say that, however his punch/hammer strike is comparable. Thor is a pimp, and I'd like to read more than I have of him. I only read a few of the arcs in his last series, like 3 or 4 arcs, then random appearances elsewhere such as Infinity Watch stuff and a little in Avengers, and then his entire new series so far.

Originally posted by Juntai
Thor is a pimp, and I'd like to read more than I have of him. I only read a few of the arcs in his last series, like 3 or 4 arcs, then random appearances elsewhere such as Infinity Watch stuff and a little in Avengers, and then his entire new series so far.

I know, however like Odin, he's often slept on out of ignorance.

Originally posted by Galan007
Superman has shown time and time again, that NO force in comics rivals his punching-power. Superman Prime.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Superman Prime. Another version of Superman.
Way to be objective.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Superman Prime.



RKT...

Surfer.

Originally posted by Juntai
Another version of Superman.
Way to be objective.

Originally posted by Tony Stark
Takes one to know one...?

Which would mean a genius would recognize every genius, and every non-genius?

So Batdude's sarcasm would still hold?

A'ight. Not that I would call BD a genius, but, eh...

Also, it depends what they're up against.

Surfer should be able to deal more damage than Supes, but I don't doubt that Superman can affect more powerful people with his punches than vice versa.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
He walked right into it.

Originally posted by SaintSmurph
Which would mean a genius would recognize every genius, and every non-genius?

So Batdude's sarcasm would still hold?

A'ight. Not that I would call BD a genius, but, eh...

Also, it depends what they're up against.

Surfer should be able to deal more damage than Supes, but I don't doubt that Superman can affect more powerful people with his punches than vice versa. So you agree that Surfer is probably the more destructive of the powers, but against a powerful character Superman punches exceed his might?

Originally posted by Juntai
So you agree that Surfer is probably the more destructive of the powers, but against a powerful character Superman punches exceed his might? Si.

Originally posted by batdude123
This man is a genius, folks.
Originally posted by Tony Stark
Takes one to know one...?

Originally posted by Juntai
Your scans defeated themselves.
"I cannot be moved unless I wish to be."


Also, he was invisible and intangible pretty much that entire Tales arc, he allowed Batman to see and touch him.... sort of like he explained to Superman.
You're right. Spectre lets Batman have his way with him, while he laughs in Supermans face.

Batkick ftw.

Originally posted by Air Legend
You're right. Spectre lets Batman have his way with him, while he laughs in Supermans face.

Batkick ftw. He's kind of an ass in that regard.

Originally posted by nimbus006
He went mad b/c he tried to absorb the entire sun at once. Superman couldnt do that either. Surfer can still DRAW energy from ALMOST anything in the cosmos is what i meant to say.

And he CAN absorb the power primordal, he did it against that uni something creature IIRC.

Superman honestly doesn't need to since it appears he processes the same energy far more efficiently.

For example OWAW's sundip made him ridiculously over the top tier. His proximity to the Sun when fighting Cythonna made him fight on an almost even basis with a kryptonian skyfather level god.

He actually did absorb a full sun when he willfully absorbed the anti-sun powering mageddon...and smiled afterwards like nothing happened.

Surfer's attempt to absorb a sun powered him up...but unfortunately it has the effect of not only driving SS mad...but making him dumber the more powerful he gets...ala Maul from wildcats.

By 'all out, not holding back' do we take into account the fact that Superman can travel at super-luminal speeds before extending his fist for the punch?

Do we take into account the possible barrage of follow up punches/blasts?

Ok some quick clarifications:

Yes this is more of a measuring type deal with everything is considered equal footing.

Secondly this is Superman's best punch so yes he gets to attain max velocity as well as his strength into the attack. And he only gets one.

Just Surfer only gets one Blast.

So Supes flying at top speed and connecting a punch, or Supes simply cocking back his fist and dropping a haymaker? Because if it's Supes charging full bore, shouldn't it also be Surfer dropping his most powerful blast in someone's grill at point blank range?

Either way it's still shatter versus vaporize.

Originally posted by illadelph12
So Supes flying at top speed and connecting a punch, or Supes simply cocking back his fist and dropping a haymaker? Because if it's Supes charging full bore, shouldn't it also be Surfer dropping his most powerful blast in someone's grill at point blank range? Well I'm allowing Superman to fly at top speed because Silver Surfer can charge his blasts.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I'd say Surfer's blast, actually. Superman's punches are very powerful, but the properties behind a blast from Surfer exceed a punch. The punch is simply one extremely strong impact on one point of a surface. The blast contains near equal concussive force as the punch, as well as heat, radiation, and whatever other properties Surfer wishes to channel into it, and it will also engulf the target's entirety and strike at all points on the surface, or Surfer can fine tune the blast to be surgical and strike a particular point. Surfer can also custom make his blasts tailored for any target to bypass it's defenses, or simply disintegrate matter.

That's my opinion anyway.

Punches can shatter.

Blasts can vaporize.

Well put,this is my opinion too.

Surfer

Originally posted by Newjak
Well I'm allowing Superman to fly at top speed because Silver Surfer can charge his blasts. I'm not sure how that equates. Surfer charging up a blast is like Superman cocking back his fist. To add flying momentum is to give Superman a secondary source of punching force. That would be like having Surfer fly in at top speed and converting his kinetic energy into additional blast energy.

Originally posted by Avlon
Superman honestly doesn't need to since it appears he processes the same energy far more efficiently.

For example OWAW's sundip made him ridiculously over the top tier. His proximity to the Sun when fighting Cythonna made him fight on an almost even basis with a kryptonian skyfather level god.

He actually did absorb a full sun when he willfully absorbed the anti-sun powering mageddon...and smiled afterwards like nothing happened.

Surfer's attempt to absorb a sun powered him up...but unfortunately it has the effect of not only driving SS mad...but making him dumber the more powerful he gets...ala Maul from wildcats.

He legitimately beat a skyfather with a sun-amp? Well, now I don't feel so bad about S/B 25. haermm

Bump.

evillaugh

Originally posted by illadelph12
I'd say Surfer's blast, actually. Superman's punches are very powerful, but the properties behind a blast from Surfer exceed a punch. The punch is simply one extremely strong impact on one point of a surface. The blast contains near equal concussive force as the punch, as well as heat, radiation, and whatever other properties Surfer wishes to channel into it, and it will also engulf the target's entirety and strike at all points on the surface, or Surfer can fine tune the blast to be surgical and strike a particular point. Surfer can also custom make his blasts tailored for any target to bypass it's defenses, or simply disintegrate matter.

That's my opinion anyway.

Punches can shatter.

Blasts can vaporize.
Except Surfer hasn't vaporized anyone of note.

SHATTERING PLANETS
At best Surfer can shatter (not vaporize) planets. If a non holding back Superman can press more than 50 Earth weights then he too could easily shatter planets with a single blow.

VAPORIZING FODDER
Second, Superman can IMP. If he punches something with 99.9999999% the speed of light then not only will his mass significantly increase but the kinetic energy produced from that type of velocity would vaporize any fodder object that Surfer can vaporize. It's the same science behind of WBH'S output energy after the collision. That energy had vaporization properties due to the impact.

DAMAGING DURABLE BEINGS
If a non holding back Superman can press more than 50 Earth weights then he can damage beings that Surfer cant. Also, going by comics, OWAW Superman can literally damage beings that Surfer's blasts cant.

Bottomline: Since a non holding back Superman's punch can damage very durable beings that Surfer's blasts cant and can also vaporize any object that Surfer's blast can. Thus the punch has the better damage output.

P.S. Superman's hv has better penetration power than Surfer's blasts. It can reach temperatures more than 1000x hotter than the sun. No character in comics was shown to survive or produce that type of heat.

Can fts be posted please? Blasting fts for Surfer and PUNCHING (not bull rushing) fts for Superman.

Originally posted by One-Punch

Surfer's energy discharges create black holes as a side-effect. We're talking about the same type of energy a collapsed star releasesl.
http://postimg.org/image/o8uka5487/
http://postimg.org/image/3m5uotktj/

Sure. I'll start.

Casually punches a hole in Cyborg-Superman and rips his central node out.

Shattered Fernus's body with one punch.

Killed Doomsday in a few punches.


Would've shattered Wonder Woman's bracers in three hits.


Actually shattered Diana's bracers in an altered timeline.


Punched so hard with Kal-L, it destroyed the barriers of space and time and started warping reality.


Punched off Kal-L's jaw in one hit.

Oneshotted Earth Man with the power of entire LOSH.

Oneshotted Bizarro.

Oneshotted Ignition who was breaking his bones.



Etc....

Originally posted by celeyhyga17

Superman and Kal-L's fight shatters the barriers of time and space and starts warping reality.

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesvse2strength1.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesvse2strength2.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesvse2strength3.jpg

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesvse2strength4.jpg

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesvse2strength5.jpg

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesvse2strength6.jpg

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesvse2strength7.jpg

These kind of feats are pointless.

Originally posted by Galan007
Superman has shown time and time again, that NO force in comics rivals his punching-power.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman and Kal-L's fight shatters the barriers of time and space and starts warping reality.

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesvse2strength1.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesvse2strength2.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesvse2strength3.jpg

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesvse2strength4.jpg

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesvse2strength5.jpg

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesvse2strength6.jpg

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesvse2strength7.jpg

These kind of feats are pointless.

Lol wait wasn't there special circumstances for that fight though? I'm not sure if you just actually argued you think Superman can warp reality just by punching it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman and Kal-L's fight shatters the barriers of time and space and starts warping reality.

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesvse2strength1.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesvse2strength2.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesvse2strength3.jpg

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesvse2strength4.jpg

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesvse2strength5.jpg

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesvse2strength6.jpg

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesvse2strength7.jpg

These kind of feats are pointless.
Gud showing, but lot of context in this feat.

Originally posted by Surtur
Lol wait wasn't there special circumstances for that fight though? I'm not sure if you just actually argued you think Superman can warp reality just by punching it.

Originally posted by Surtur
Lol wait wasn't there special circumstances for that fight though? I'm not sure if you just actually argued you think Superman can warp reality just by punching it.
No, there are not.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Gud showing, but lot of context in this feat.



Yeah, no context. The narrative made it clear.

facepalm

Like I said... It was a gud feat. Not gonna waste my time on it any longer. Be my guest on looking foolish.

I think everyone on KMC has debated against ABHI on that showing. Pointless going pages with him on it because he will not change his mind. He is still using the showing until this day.

I would love to debate Surfer Power Output vs Hulk punching power/strength. Superman can be added in this as well.

So start a thread.

I did a while back, I just cant find it. I scan dumped and no one could keep up.

Sorry dun remember it...

Originally posted by h1a8
SHATTERING PLANETS
At best Surfer can shatter (not vaporize) planets. If a non holding back Superman can press more than 50 Earth weights then he too could easily shatter planets with a single blow.

VAPORIZING FODDER
Second, Superman can IMP. If he punches something with 99.9999999% the speed of light then not only will his mass significantly increase but the kinetic energy produced from that type of velocity would vaporize any fodder object that Surfer can vaporize. It's the same science behind of WBH'S output energy after the collision. That energy had vaporization properties due to the impact.

DAMAGING DURABLE BEINGS
If a non holding back Superman can press more than 50 Earth weights then he can damage beings that Surfer cant. Also, going by comics, OWAW Superman can literally damage beings that Surfer's blasts cant.

Bottomline: Since a non holding back Superman's punch can damage very durable beings that Surfer's blasts cant and can also vaporize any object that Surfer's blast can. Thus the punch has the better damage output.

P.S. Superman's hv has better penetration power than Surfer's blasts. It can reach temperatures more than 1000x hotter than the sun. No character in comics was shown to survive or produce that type of heat. *sigh*

Originally posted by celeyhyga17


Like I said... It was a gud feat. Not gonna waste my time on it any longer. Be my guest on looking foolish.
Yes, because you were wrong that day and today too. The reality warping was as legit as it can get.Originally posted by carver9
I think everyone on KMC has debated against ABHI on that showing. Pointless going pages with him on it because he will not change his mind. He is still using the showing until this day.
Nobody but idiots can argue against what is simply stated in the comic itself.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Superman and E2 Superman shatter time (boundaries of time and space) or retcon punches what ever you want to call it during the IC saga

On panel statements and feat.

Fight takes place on Earth 2

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/INSANE%20FEATS/SHATTERS%20BOUNDARIES%20OF%20TIME%20AND%20SPACE/th_AOS649SURVIVESTIMEREALITYSHATERINGFORCES5.jpg Originally posted by Rao Kal El
The side effect is felt on earth 1

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/INSANE%20FEATS/SHATTERS%20BOUNDARIES%20OF%20TIME%20AND%20SPACE/th_AC836SHATERINGTIMEANDSPACE2.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/INSANE%20FEATS/SHATTERS%20BOUNDARIES%20OF%20TIME%20AND%20SPACE/th_SUPERMAN226SHATTERSTIMEANDSPACE5-1.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/INSANE%20FEATS/SHATTERS%20BOUNDARIES%20OF%20TIME%20AND%20SPACE/th_JLA125-page23.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/INSANE%20FEATS/SHATTERS%20BOUNDARIES%20OF%20TIME%20AND%20SPACE/th_WWSHATTERSTIMEANDSPACE.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/INSANE%20FEATS/SHATTERS%20BOUNDARIES%20OF%20TIME%20AND%20SPACE/th_hm-49-022SHATERINGREALITY.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/INSANE%20FEATS/SHATTERS%20BOUNDARIES%20OF%20TIME%20AND%20SPACE/th_Manhunter19MarvelBabes-DCP23SHATERINGREALITY.jpg

This happened between Superman #226 and Action Comics #836

So We have panel statement, showing on panel and to put a nail in the coffin We have editorial confirmation.

This is the back of the TPB in which states that "this man of steel has must break his bonds and bend reality" you can read it is in there.

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/INSANE%20FEATS/SHATTERS%20BOUNDARIES%20OF%20TIME%20AND%20SPACE/th_ICSMTP.jpg

That's from several different titles showing the reality warping from Superman's fight with Kal-L.

You're missing some scans. Not debating that topic again though. Extremely exhausting. You won ABHI.

Of course I won.

abhidur

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
abhidur He is delusional and dim witted.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
abhidur
Yeah, its cool , isn't it?

Got a question to everyone that has read this book. Ultraman tells us that he read the FINAL chapter of the book of Infinite pages.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111138490/4187151-4956899914-Super.jpg

My question is, why would a book of infinite pages have a FINAL chapter? He also tells us he read the END of the book of Infinite pages. Is my definition of end different from anyone else or did Ultraman not only lift infinity but read infinity as well?

He read the infinite book from the computer of Ultima Thule, the ship of Monitors which has infinite memory and infinite processing power.

Also turned out that wasn't the final chapter.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He read the infinite book from the computer of Ultima Thule, the ship of Monitors which has infinite memory and infinite processing power.

Also turned out that wasn't the final chapter.



Stop Abhi. Knowing that would require reading the series!!

Originally posted by Delta1938
Stop Abhi. Knowing that would require reading the series!!

With that said, I'm sure you have that scan where it says he didn't read the final pages. Since you read the story and all. Also, it doesn't matter where the book was read from, if the pages are infinite then no source should be able to read until the FINAL chapter aka last page.

Lol.

Let me ask you this.

Are you applying real world logic to comics now? Cuz las time you said, you couldn't apply real world logic to comics.

So what is it now?

Apply real world logic or not? Make up your mind.

Or are you going to keep flip flopping, just to suit your argument?

How much are you willing to pay for sex with the famous Carvdingo, salsa?

https://66.media.tumblr.com/1f02bbfbe79888623d43acdedc07c6ff/tumblr_n7232sSCqi1se9fcoo1_500.gif

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
How much are you willing to pay for sex with the famous Carvdingo, salsa?

https://66.media.tumblr.com/1f02bbfbe79888623d43acdedc07c6ff/tumblr_n7232sSCqi1se9fcoo1_500.gif

Hahahaha, ewwwwww! nothing I'll pass. You pimp!

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Lol.

Let me ask you this.

Are you applying real world logic to comics now? Cuz las time you said, you couldn't apply real world logic to comics.

So what is it now?

Apply real world logic or not? Make up your mind.

Or are you going to keep flip flopping, just to suit your argument?

So if I ran into a bunch of ants called infinite ants but I was able to step on every last of those ants leaving nothing but one, what do we take into consideration here, the name of the ants or the fact that there is only one still standing.

Answer the damn question double standards

Apply real world logic or not?

I think real world logic actually has to be used, but only up until a certain point. So for instance if a character has a feat and is said to be going 5 times the speed of sound, we are using "real world" logic to determine the speed in a way, right? Just like how we know lightspeed is fast because in the real world it is fast.

You just don't go overboard. Like saying Superman can't fly because it doesn't make any sense. Or in a sense trying to say someone else's powers would realistically kill them or injure them when they used them, etc.

Originally posted by Surtur
I think real world logic actually has to be used, but only up until a certain point. So for instance if a character has a feat and is said to be going 5 times the speed of sound, we are using "real world" logic to determine the speed in a way, right? Just like how we know lightspeed is fast because in the real world it is fast.

You just don't go overboard. Like saying Superman can't fly because it doesn't make any sense. Or in a sense trying to say someone else's powers would realistically kill them or injure them when they used them, etc.

Exactly. It depends entirely on the situation. Example, here Galactus is going all out trying to take out Tenebrous and the planet is still intact. Hell, the ground they are fighting on doesn't have a dent.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/54623/1120089-gfight1or9.jpg

But yet Surfer and Morg fight destroys planets and moons.

http://i.imgur.com/704Tkq2.jpg

If we used real world logic, which fight displayed more power? And which characters would you deem as more powerful?

So...we SHOULDN'T use real world logic?

So...if the scan says infinite pages, we take it at face value?

Carverbot, is your programming faulty?

Originally posted by carver9
Exactly. It depends entirely on the situation. Example, here Galactus is going all out trying to take out Tenebrous and the planet is still intact. Hell, the ground they are fighting on doesn't have a dent.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/54623/1120089-gfight1or9.jpg

But yet Surfer and Morg fight destroys planets and moons.

http://i.imgur.com/704Tkq2.jpg

If we used real world logic, which fight displayed more power? And which characters would you deem as more powerful?
That's why space cheese is meaningless. Creating black holes? Destroying planets? Who the **** cares?

Only fight with characters is indicative of power. Surfer can destroy a galaxy and will still get smacked around by Thor. That's just how comics work.

Energy discharge enough to make a black hole or vape a planet without even fully charged is far more than supes can do in 1 punch....

Funny how carver can't answer a simple question.

According to him only use real world logic when it suits your own argument otherwise use double standards

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So...we SHOULDN'T use real world logic?

So...if the scan says infinite pages, we take it at face value?

Carverbot, is your programming faulty?

read everything that has been said here, not my last post. All of it please.

Originally posted by Genii96
Energy discharge enough to make a black hole or vape a planet without even fully charged is far more than supes can do in 1 punch....

Exactly.

Originally posted by Genii96
Energy discharge enough to make a black hole or vape a planet without even fully charged is far more than supes can do in 1 punch.... Originally posted by Surtur
Exactly.
Punching so hard that it destroys the barriers of space and time or punching your way out of source wall is more than Surfer can ever hope to do.

Exactly.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's why space cheese is meaningless. Creating black holes? Destroying planets? Who the **** cares?

Only fight with characters is indicative of power. Surfer can destroy a galaxy and will still get smacked around by Thor. That's just how comics work.

Right on point. There's a time to use real world logic and then there's a time we use common sense. Surfer has created Black Holes on a whim and even with that, given the chance, Superman, Thor and Hulk would punch his face clean off.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Funny how carver can't answer a simple question.

According to him only use real world logic when it suits your own argument otherwise use double standards

Originally posted by abhilegend
Punching so hard that it destroys the barriers of space and time
Provided you have a villain mucking with with space time and multiple realities.


Originally posted by abhilegend

or punching your way out of source wall
Provided you have a staff of "unimaginable power" made from the source to help pull you out.

Still better than surfer's feat. Imo

Originally posted by carver9
So if I ran into a bunch of ants called infinite ants but I was able to step on every last of those ants leaving nothing but one, what do we take into consideration here, the name of the ants or the fact that there is only one still standing.

Go back to work, Carvdingo.

I don't pay you for online posting on comic book forums, ffs. San Francisco glory hole awaits.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Provided you have a villain mucking with with space time and multiple realities.

Not at that time. The realities were perfectly stabilized at that moment.



That never happened of course. Both non existent "context" you made up without a single iota of proof.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not at that time. The realities were perfectly stabilized at that moment.



That never happened of course. Both non existent "context" you made up without a single iota of proof.
All u have to do is read both stories.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
All u have to do is read both stories.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's why space cheese is meaningless. Creating black holes? Destroying planets? Who the **** cares?

Only fight with characters is indicative of power. Surfer can destroy a galaxy and will still get smacked around by Thor. That's just how comics work. Originally posted by abhilegend
Punching so hard that it destroys the barriers of space and time or punching your way out of source wall is more than Surfer can ever hope to do.

Exactly. Superman fans. It doesn't matter but ours is still better. Hilarious. He argues against himself.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
All u have to do is read both stories.
Funny, I was about to tell you the same.

I can't find any evidence of what you are saying. Mind posting them?

So any other Surfer fan here?

Regardless of any nitpicking or attempt to lowball the feat

Altering the time line of an entire universe is >>>>>>>>>> creating a black hole.

Peps should learn to live wirh it

Did supes do that alone? And with a single punch? But since 'high end feats' are allowed,
How about blasting an IG user's arm clean off,with a blast?
And which supes is being used here? Cuz it seems like they are bringing feats from different versions

Originally posted by abhilegend
So any other Surfer fan here?

You killed them all. Well, Darthgoober might be lurking.

Now you need to travel to other msg boards in hoping to find more targets.

Originally posted by Genii96
Did supes do that alone? And with a single punch? But since 'high end feats' are allowed,
How about blasting an IG user's arm clean off,with a blast?
And which supes is being used here? Cuz it seems like they are bringing feats from different versions
They were warping reality by each punch.

Yeah, rune wasn't in control of IG. Superman punched Soulfire Darkseid in half and punched through the body of Emperor Joker himself.