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Jordan vs Thor, who takes it?

thor

Hal.

Ah, classic stuff.

GLs shouldn't have reaction time on Thor. Thor can absorb sickening amounts of energy and redirect it on its user x10 (or x100 depending on which feat you use as a reference). Thor ftw.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Ah, classic stuff.

GLs have reaction time on Thor. GLs can absorb sickening amounts of energy and redirect it on its user x10 (or x100 depending on which feat you use as a reference). Hal ftw.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Ah, classic stuff.

GLs shouldn't have reaction time on Thor. Thor can absorb sickening amounts of energy and redirect it on its user x10 (or x100 depending on which feat you use as a reference). Thor ftw.

Originally posted by Soljer




Touche, sir. Touche.

Thor

Problem is, Soljer, Thor can bring any kind of punishment: energy, magical, or purely physical. GLs are only energy, and Thor owns energy. The energy-soak of Mjolnir has few, if any, peers in all of comicdom (assuming Skyfather & below beings).

GLs are fast, but do they amp reactions to such an otherworldly level that Thor couldn't touch them? No, they're still based on human reaction time and willpower/thought.

Thor 7/10. And I'm talking about classic Thor. Current Thor would be a curbstomp.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Thor 7/10. And I'm talking about classic Thor. Current Thor would be a curbstomp.

...despite far less feats in any area and an amorphic possession of the Odinforce that may or may not be at full power? By all rights, Classic has better feats by quite a bit, unless I'm missing something epic from the last issue or two.

But I'll concede because he is stated to have the Odinforce. I just wanted to point out that it's not the gigantic difference people say.

Concession accepted. :P

Thor 6/10

There's a couple of things that Hal can and has done that could stop Thor cold. Like timestop, or turning himself into a daxamite.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
There's a couple of things that Hal can and has done that could stop Thor cold. Like timestop, or turning himself into a daxamite.

Yea and how often has he done this, and was it recently? I think it would be once and no.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
There's a couple of things that Hal can and has done that could stop Thor cold. Like timestop, or turning himself into a daxamite.

Thor has also manipulated time( long time ago though)

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
There's a couple of things that Hal can and has done that could stop Thor cold. Like timestop, or turning himself into a daxamite.
Thor could put him to sleep or erase his memory then?

Has Hal ever gotten himself back from being BFRed to other dimensions?

Thor can't manipulate time. Immortus removed that power. Mindset: If you go that way, then what has Thor done?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Thor can't manipulate time. Immortus removed that power. Mindset: If you go that way, then what has Thor done?

You mean if I don't use things he has only done once decades ago?

Originally posted by Mindset
You mean if I don't use things he has only done once decades ago?

Double standards aren't very smart....... I refuse to play along with that BS.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
There's a couple of things that Hal can and has done that could stop Thor cold. Like timestop, or turning himself into a daxamite. Hal talked to dead people when he stopped time and that's it. And turning into a Daxamite? Well, despite not being aware of this feat... scans or issue number please?... Thor would still beat a Daxamite. So?

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Problem is, Soljer, Thor can bring any kind of punishment: energy, magical, or purely physical. GLs are only energy, and Thor owns energy. The energy-soak of Mjolnir has few, if any, peers in all of comicdom (assuming Skyfather & below beings).

Uh... the lantern rings can do ANYTHING. Sentient constructs able to give the JLA problems, physical powers, manipulation of matter and energy on a global-to a galactic level (in JLA: Heaven's Ladder, Kyle creates a Double Helix shape with a galaxy full of planets), etc.

Not saying Thor isn't a beast, but in all honesty, anything Thor can do, Hal can do. The only real difference is... well... Hal can do more.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
GLs are fast, but do they amp reactions to such an otherworldly level that Thor couldn't touch them? No, they're still based on human reaction time and willpower/thought.

The rings take care of the reaction speed issue. Another advantage Hal has over Thor is the sentient ring feeding him information.

Hal: "Ring, transmute Thor's blood to acid."

Ring: "Affirmative."

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Uh... the lantern rings can do ANYTHING. Sentient constructs able to give the JLA problems, physical powers, manipulation of matter and energy on a global-to a galactic level (in JLA: Heaven's Ladder, Kyle creates a Double Helix shape with a galaxy full of planets), etc.



You and I know perfectly well that willpower limits the rings. Hence they can't do EVERYTHING.

Thor's absorbed the energy of a null bomb that was capable of destroying an entire galaxy and used it to reignite a dead sun?
The hammer has the BFR option of other dimensions, seeing as how he once sent Surtur and Ymir to the Death Dimension, where a blast by Mjolnir ripped wide the fabric of the universe itself.

Originally posted by Jugglenaut
You and I know perfectly well that willpower limits the rings. Hence they can't do EVERYTHING.

This is Hal Jordan, *****. Willpower is something he has an abundance of.

Originally posted by Jugglenaut
Thor's absorbed the energy of a null bomb that was capable of destroying an entire galaxy and used it to reignite a dead sun?
The hammer has the BFR option of other dimensions, seeing as how he once sent Surtur and Ymir to the Death Dimension, where a blast by Mjolnir ripped wide the fabric of the universe itself.

You think BFR would stop a Green Lantern? crylaugh

Lantern rings can also dimension hop, so it's not that big of a deal.

Like I said before, anything Thor can do, Hal can as well. Except Hal has more options available.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
This is Hal Jordan, *****. Willpower is something he has an abundance of.



You think BFR would stop a Green Lantern? crylaugh

Lantern rings can also dimension hop, so it's not that big of a deal.



Yeah, that's why we have John having too much willpower for even his ring.

So Hal's come back from being BFRed to an alternate universe before then? Thor certainly can do that.
What can Hal do that Thor can't absorb and reuse against him?

Originally posted by Jugglenaut
Yeah, that's why we have John having too much willpower for even his ring.

Retarded writing.

Originally posted by Jugglenaut
What can Hal do that Thor can't absorb and reuse against him?

Uh... physical force, sentient constructs, transmutation, etc? Use your own imagination.

Power wise, these guys are close to neck-neck, however versatility obviously goes to Jordan, which is an edge. He has plenty of options to deal with Thor.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Retarded writing.



Uh... physical force, sentient constructs, transmutation, etc? Use your own imagination.

Power wise, these guys are close to neck-neck, however versatility obviously goes to Jordan, which is an edge. He has plenty of options to deal with Thor.
Physical force? Unless Hal is suddenly Supes level with the ring, he's not going to be physically stronger than Thor.
Thor can transmute with the hammer, and has elemental control for that.
So that leaves the constructs, which are certainly not invulnerable to godblasts, AoE lightning storms or antimatter particles from the hammer.

I'm not certain if Thor reversing energy polarities would apply to constructs.

How many constructs can Hal make at a time?

Originally posted by Jugglenaut
Physical force? Unless Hal is suddenly Supes level with the ring, he's not going to be physically stronger than Thor.
Thor can transmute with the hammer, and has elemental control for that.
So that leaves the constructs, which are certainly not invulnerable to godblasts or antimatter particles from the hammer.

I'm not certain if Thor reversing energy polarities would apply to constructs.

How many constructs can Hal make at a time?

Shit, Hal can grant his own body super powers with the ring. He could alter his body's DNA to that of a Kryptonian (if we get a little creative here). Point being, Hal has that option whereas Thor doesn't.

Only thing I've seen Thor "transmute" in the strictest sense was his clothing. Nothing too impressive there, so I'll chalk that one up for Hal.

I'm pretty sure Hal recreated Oa once and 7200 Lanterns. Just to give you an idea of what he's capable of.

Not to mention, Kyle once created Daxamite constructs with access to the speed force.

And I was just throwing suggestions out there. What I listed is just the tip of the ice berg. It's almost asinine for me to be throwing out ideas when Hal has a near limitless array of options.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Uh... the lantern rings can do ANYTHING. Sentient constructs able to give the JLA problems, physical powers, manipulation of matter and energy on a global-to a galactic level (in JLA: Heaven's Ladder, Kyle creates a Double Helix shape with a galaxy full of planets), etc.Sorry to burst your bubble. But 'Heaven's Ladder' was published in 2000, right around the time 'Oblivion' was published. And before 'Our Worlds At War.' So that puts any of Kyle's actions in 'Heaven's Ladder' smack in the middle during his time where he is unconsciously tapping into the Ion power. Not that it matters much to this thread since this isn't "Kyle Rayner tapping into the Ion Power vs Thor" or even "Kyle Rayner vs Thor."

Green Lantern rings on their own, have their limits.Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Retarded writing.Geoff Johns knows what he's talking about more than you do. So sorry. And I'm still waiting for a scan or issue number where Hal Jordan turns himself into a Daxamite.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Sorry to burst your bubble. But 'Heaven's Ladder' was published in 2000, right around the time 'Oblivion' was published. And before 'Our Worlds At War.' So that puts any of Kyle's actions in 'Heaven's Ladder' smack in the middle during his time where he is unconsciously tapping into the Ion power. Not that it matters much to this thread since this isn't "Kyle Rayner tapping into the Ion Power vs Thor" or even "Kyle Rayner vs Thor."

Proof?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Green Lantern rings on their own, have their limits.Geoff Johns knows what he's talking about more than you do. So sorry. And I'm still waiting for a scan or issue number where Hal Jordan turns himself into a Daxamite.

Lulz. I knew I'd hear the "ZOMG YOU CAN'T TALK SHITZ ABOUT GEOFF JOHNS!!!!11@" argument from somebody.

Tell you what, show me another example where a Green Lantern's "will power" has ever exceeded what a ring's capacity was. Really, anything that would make the instance with Stewart a justifiable occurrence will suffice.

I don't give a shit who wrote it, the fact of the matter is that it's stupid.

Lol. K. I'll go slowly for you... 'Final Night' occurs in 1996 where the source of the Ion power lies within the Sun after Hallax sacrifices himself. The 'Circle Of Fire' arc (I misquoted as 'Oblivion' arc before) occurs in 2000, where Kyle subconsciously taps into the Ion power and manifests Oblivion and several fake GL's and fights them. 'Heaven's Ladder' arc occurs in 2000 as well. All through 2000 and 2001, in his own GL book and obviously in 'Circle of Fire' and 'Heaven's Ladder,' Kyle experiences unexplained powerups and a seeming lack of limitations with his powers. This culminates in his 'OWAW: Green Lantern' one-shot and the 'Power of Ion' storyline that occurs at the end of 2001 and through 2002, where he finally discovers that he's been unconsciously tapping into the Ion power the entire time.

You fail. Geoff Johns ain't perfect. But that sh1t's on-panel. And none of your exagerrations are.

Hal 6/10.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Lol. K. I'll go slowly for you... 'Final Night' occurs in 1996 where the source of the Ion power lies within the Sun after Hallax sacrifices himself. The 'Circle Of Fire' arc (I misquoted as 'Oblivion' arc before) occurs in 2000, where Kyle subconsciously taps into the Ion power and manifests Oblivion and several fake GL's and fights them. 'Heaven's Ladder' arc occurs in 2000 as well. All through 2000 and 2001, in his own GL book and obviously in 'Circle of Fire' and 'Heaven's Ladder,' Kyle experiences unexplained powerups and a seeming lack of limitations with his powers. This culminates in his 'OWAW: Green Lantern' one-shot and the 'Power of Ion' storyline that occurs at the end of 2001 and through 2002, where he finally discovers that he's been unconsciously tapping into the Ion power the entire time.

You fail. Geoff Johns ain't perfect. But that sh1t's on-panel. And none of your exagerrations are.

.........It's the internet. Everything is typed. You're only making yourself look bad by attempting to patronize me.

Most of what Kyle has done, outside the Ion power upper level stuff, are things that Hal can do as well. And you clearly do not understand the most important thing about the ring. It has NO LIMITS. Aside from running out of energy, the ring can do just about anything. I haven't exaggerated it at all. You're just too thick to realize what a marvelous weapon it is.

Right......I'm gonna take the word of one panel by Geoff Johns, great writer that he is, over 20-30 years of GL canon, including (unless I miss my guess) PC Green Lantern history, which I believe is still canon for them. It's a horseshit panel. So if we accept this, I guess Spidey vs. Firelord is now on-panel and thus irrefutable. Or Thanos getting stabbed by Wolverine. Or Darkseid bleeding vis Batman. Or Deathstroke having a winning record against every Flash.

Whats stopping Thor from draining the Ring directly?

Originally posted by DigiMark007
...despite far less feats in any area and an amorphic possession of the Odinforce that may or may not be at full power? By all rights, Classic has better feats by quite a bit, unless I'm missing something epic from the last issue or two.

But I'll concede because he is stated to have the Odinforce. I just wanted to point out that it's not the gigantic difference people say.

It is a gigantic difference.

Hal.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Retarded writing.

proof, trick?

even when hal was infected by parallax, he was still able to recreate coast city in every detail, even down to the squirrels on the trees...

thats a weakened, feeling fear, doubting himself hal...

besides, the scan says 'willpower exceeding ring capabilities'

that could mean any of a dozen things... maybe his charge wasn't sufficient to create something that large and complex?

and you know, he was trying to create an entire star system... john said himself that he had thought every detail through... that's every planet as it was the last time the ring scanned it, every person, every building on god knows how many planets... the amount of energy required to pull off something like that is unbelievably enormous...

gl rings have limits, as high as they are... thats why there are so many cannon fodder gl's...

now, is geoff johns infallible? of course not, but when it comes to green lantern, there are very few voices i would trust more than his...

Originally posted by Raoul
proof, trick?

even when hal was infected by parallax, he was still able to recreate coast city in every detail, even down to the squirrels on the trees...

thats a weakened, feeling fear, doubting himself hal...

besides, the scan says 'willpower exceeding ring capabilities'

that could mean any of a dozen things... maybe his charge wasn't sufficient to create something that large and complex?

and you know, he was trying to create an entire star system... john said himself that he had thought every detail through... that's every planet as it was the last time the ring scanned it, every person, every building on god knows how many planets... the amount of energy required to pull off something like that is unbelievably enormous...

gl rings have limits, as high as they are... thats why there are so many cannon fodder gl's...

now, is geoff johns infallible? of course not, but when it comes to green lantern, there are very few voices i would trust more than his...

Good points.

I always took that scene to be 'insufficient resources.'

What your will is asking for, the ring doesn't have enough juice for.

More or less.

Originally posted by Soljer
Good points.

I always took that scene to be 'insufficient resources.'

What your will is asking for, the ring doesn't have enough juice for.

More or less.

yup, pretty much...

I think Thor can last long enough for Hal to exhaust his ring.

Originally posted by Raoul

besides, the scan says 'willpower exceeding ring capabilities'

that could mean any of a dozen things...

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
The rings take care of the reaction speed issue. Another advantage Hal has over Thor is the sentient ring feeding him information.

Hal: "Ring, transmute Thor's blood to acid."

Ring: "Affirmative."

Lulz. If you think a GL could really do this to Thor, you really don't know much about Thor.

Originally posted by llagrok
It is a gigantic difference.

Based on what? Speculation of powers we have yet to see? Once it's displayed, I'll agree with you wholeheartedly, but we have no clue how well he can use the OF.

Originally posted by redhotrash
I think Thor can last long enough for Hal to exhaust his ring.

Excellent point. And Thor has absorbed amounts of energy that are far beyond planet-busting, and then turned it on its user, so I really can't see Hal doing much here.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Excellent point. And Thor has absorbed amounts of energy that are far beyond planet-busting, and then turned it on its user, so I really can't see Hal doing much here.

agreed...

under Skyfather level, only Quasar comes to mind on being on par with Thor in energy absorption...

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Based on what? Speculation of powers we have yet to see? Once it's displayed, I'll agree with you wholeheartedly, but we have no clue how well he can use the OF..

Thor hasn't forgotten anything from the last time he had it.

And the last time he had the Odinforce, he was incapable of resurrecting people, he could only heal the actual body but not bring back their spirit. Thor with the Odinforce was also capable of dealing with Surtur once.

Thor for the win

Hal will make a fight out of it though

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Hal: "Ring, trans- "

GODFORCE BLAST


fixed it for ya

Thor for the win. He counters anything thrown at him by the ring with his hammer and eventually exhausts the ring. He then proceeds to ko hal in his weakened state.

Originally posted by llagrok
Thor hasn't forgotten anything from the last time he had it.

And the last time he had the Odinforce, he was incapable of resurrecting people, he could only heal the actual body but not bring back their spirit. Thor with the Odinforce was also capable of dealing with Surtur once.

You mean in the metaphoric battle he had alongside his father? Not really a feat.

And yes I saw the resurrection. Not sure how that helps in a fight against a GL though.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
.........It's the internet. Everything is typed. You're only making yourself look bad by attempting to patronize me.

Most of what Kyle has done, outside the Ion power upper level stuff, are things that Hal can do as well. And you clearly do not understand the most important thing about the ring. It has NO LIMITS. Aside from running out of energy, the ring can do just about anything. I haven't exaggerated it at all. You're just too thick to realize what a marvelous weapon it is.

Right......I'm gonna take the word of one panel by Geoff Johns, great writer that he is, over 20-30 years of GL canon, including (unless I miss my guess) PC Green Lantern history, which I believe is still canon for them. It's a horseshit panel. So if we accept this, I guess Spidey vs. Firelord is now on-panel and thus irrefutable. Or Thanos getting stabbed by Wolverine. Or Darkseid bleeding vis Batman. Or Deathstroke having a winning record against every Flash. The sad thing is, I have probably read more Green Lantern comics than you have. Still waiting for a scan where Hal turns himself into a Daxamite btw.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Lulz. If you think a GL could really do this to Thor, you really don\'t know much about Thor.

I know mentioning something like that is taboo around here, especially since they\'re close to evenly matched in the power department, and because Thor is "teh gawd of thunda!!!" However, tell me something; what makes Thor immune to having his blood transmuted? Has he ever resisted something of this manner?

Now, this isn\'t me saying Hal will do this in a fight against Thor. I\'m just questioning the reasons as to why people might not think it\'s valid.

Originally posted by batdude123
I know mentioning something like that is taboo around here, especially since they\'re close to evenly matched in the power department, and because Thor is \"teh gawd of thunda!!!\" However, tell me something; what makes Thor immune to having his blood transmuted? Has he ever resisted something of this manner?

Now, this isn\'t me saying Hal will do this in a fight against Thor. I\'m just questioning the reasons as to why people might not think it\'s valid.
Likewise, what prevents Thor from simply putting Hal to sleep, or erasing his memory?


Edit:
IIRC, he still has timestop after Immortus took the time traveling power away from Mjolnir.

Originally posted by Raoul
proof, trick?

even when hal was infected by parallax, he was still able to recreate coast city in every detail, even down to the squirrels on the trees...

thats a weakened, feeling fear, doubting himself hal...

besides, the scan says 'willpower exceeding ring capabilities'

that could mean any of a dozen things... maybe his charge wasn't sufficient to create something that large and complex?

Only problem I have with that argument is this: rather than saying something like "ring's charge is insufficient," it states that his WILLPOWER was exceeding the ring's capabilities. Two totally different concepts, so I really don't see how an argument could be made for one being the same as the other.

Never have I seen in a GL comic one's "willpower" ever being too much for a ring to handle. Needless to say, regardless of Johns being the one who wrote it, I don't exactly agree with that. srug

Originally posted by Jugglenaut
Likewise, what prevents Thor from simply putting Hal to sleep, or erasing his memory?

The sentient ring which protects and/or adapts to outside forces tampering with the ring bearer's mind or body.

Originally posted by batdude123
Only problem I have with that argument is this: rather than saying something like "ring's charge is insufficient," it states that his WILLPOWER was exceeding the ring's capabilities. Two totally different concepts, so I really don't see how an argument could be made for one being the same as the other.

Never have I seen in a GL comic one's "willpower" ever being too much for a ring to handle. Needless to say, regardless of Johns being the one who wrote it, I don't exactly agree with that. *srug*

i can see where you're coming from... honestly though, when you look at the top gl's, they're all guys who will push their rings to the limit in one way or another, they aren't like the thousands of faceless gl's that get massacred in a big battle... the ring is powerful, yes, but given the showings of the gl's (the high ones), the rings limitations are what makes them high herald level rather than galactus busters... just imo...

Originally posted by Raoul
i can see where you're coming from... honestly though, when you look at the top gl's, they're all guys who will push their rings to the limit in one way or another, they aren't like the thousands of faceless gl's that get massacred in a big battle... the ring is powerful, yes, but given the showings of the gl's (the high ones), the rings limitations are what makes them high herald level rather than galactus busters... just imo...

Only thing is though, it's been established on panel several times that a GL is only limited by their imagination and willpower.

IMO, it's their willpower's limits that keeps them at high herald.

How do you interpret that scene with John and his willpower 'overriding ring's capabilities' ?

Originally posted by batdude123
Only thing is though, it's been established on panel several times that a GL is only limited by their imagination and willpower.

IMO, it's their willpower's limits that keeps them at high herald.

most gl's, yes, but when you have someone like hal, or guy, or kilowog, who's willpower or imagination is that highly developed, then the whole 'limitless power' thing starts, imo, to look a little less impressive...

i mean, gl's are great and all, but are we saying that the best in the business (hal, kyle, john) just aren't that impressive because they can't use the ring at a higher level? i mean, why is ion even needed if the ring is that powerful?

Originally posted by Raoul
most gl's, yes, but when you have someone like hal, or guy, or kilowog, who's willpower or imagination is that highly developed, then the whole 'limitless power' thing starts, imo, to look a little less impressive...

Except none of those guys have ever exceeded a ring's capabilities based on will power alone.

Originally posted by Raoul
i mean, gl's are great and all, but are we saying that the best in the business (hal, kyle, john) just aren't that impressive because they can't use the ring at a higher level? i mean, why is ion even needed if the ring is that powerful?

I never said that the ring's themselves have limitless power. I mean, it IS the reason why they have to recharge the rings in the first place.

I'm simply echoing what's been established as canon for years now.

It's always been "a Green Lantern is only limited by his imagination and will."

It has NEVER been "a Green Lantern is only limited by his imagination and will... uh... err... unless his will overloads the ring's capacity."

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
How do you interpret that scene with John and his willpower 'overriding ring's capabilities' ? It's more like willpower exceeds ring's capabilities. Hasn't the Surfer stated that his Power Cosmic can accomplish anything and he clearly has his limits too? Don't know what the incredulity is about. It's pretty clear to me. John wants to reconstruct the solar system he failed to save and has the will to do so.

The ring says that the request exceeds it's capabilities. It doesn't say "insufficient charge." If it was a simple matter of being an insufficient charge, he could have just recharged his ring and tried again. He clearly has the will to do so and has been making sabbaticals to the Xanshi system many times. I mean... seriously... he just thinks, "Damn. I'm only at 76%. Guess I'll give up and not restore the solar system. I could go and recharge my ring to 100%... but I don't feel like travelling back and forth... Sorry Xanshi, you're out of luck today."

Originally posted by batdude123
Except none of those guys have ever exceeded a ring's capabilities based on will power alone.

just because it hasn't been done (bar john) doesn't mean it can't, though, does it?



i meant limitless in terms of what you can do with sufficient charge...



in fairness though, how many gl's do we know that have tried to recreate a solar system? its a huge task... the guardians've lied before, and considering it takes a truly exceptional gl to reach the level of hal or john, it could have easily been maintained that a gl was only limited by his own imagination or willpower...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It's more like willpower exceeds ring's capabilities. Hasn't the Surfer stated that his Power Cosmic can accomplish anything and he clearly has his limits too? Don't know what the incredulity is about. It's pretty clear to me. John wants to reconstruct the solar system he failed to save and has the will to do so.

The ring says that the request exceeds it's capabilities. It doesn't say "insufficient charge." If it was a simple matter of being an insufficient charge, he could have just recharged his ring and tried again. He clearly has the will to do so and has been making sabbaticals to the Xanshi system many times. I mean... seriously... he just thinks, "Damn. I'm only at 76%. Guess I'll give up and not restore the solar system. I could go and recharge my ring to 100%... but I don't feel like travelling back and forth... Sorry Xanshi, you're out of luck today."

it was just ONE possibility...

Originally posted by Raoul
it was just ONE possibility... Aww cmon. You know I was jus pokin a lil fun!

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Aww cmon. You know I was jus pokin a lil fun!

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y71/_Skyrider/Blackest%20Night/BN_Brannigan.jpg

Jesus christ..........you guys are arguing for something so out of left field, so screwball and against established canon&fact, that it looks like it was written by Mcduffie.

I call bullshit on this thread and the extreme bias towards Thor. He may get the majority, I can live with that, though I don't agree. But saying he curbstomps Hal Jordan? Horseshit. nono

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Jesus christ..........you guys are arguing for something so out of left field, so screwball and against established canon&fact, that it looks like it was written by Mcduffie.

I call bullshit on this thread and the extreme bias towards Thor. He may get the majority, I can live with that, though I don't agree. But saying he curbstomps Hal Jordan? Horseshit. nono

what are you, some kind of neutral? shock

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Jesus christ..........you guys are arguing for something so out of left field, so screwball and against established canon&fact, that it looks like it was written by Mcduffie.

I call bullshit on this thread and the extreme bias towards Thor. He may get the majority, I can live with that, though I don't agree. But saying he curbstomps Hal Jordan? Horseshit. nono I actually agree. I think he would get the majority over Hal, but DEFINATELY not curb.

Originally posted by Raoul
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y71/_Skyrider/Blackest%20Night/BN_Brannigan.jpg

Against any other GL I would give Thor a 8/10 majority (except Alan Scott)

but Hal, he's the best of the GLs

He would win his 5/10 'cause Thor aint no pussy either

Originally posted by Raoul
just because it hasn't been done (bar john) doesn't mean it can't, though, does it?

Uh, sorry. I'm not willing to discard years of continuity based on a single ridiculous page. Geoff Johns be damned...

Originally posted by Raoul
i meant limitless in terms of what you can do with sufficient charge...

That's the first time I've seen a ring straight up quit on a task that had nothing to do with its charging. So...

Originally posted by Raoul
in fairness though, how many gl's do we know that have tried to recreate a solar system? its a huge task... the guardians've lied before, and considering it takes a truly exceptional gl to reach the level of hal or john, it could have easily been maintained that a gl was only limited by his own imagination or willpower...

The Guardians have lied before? So are you trying to tell me that you'd go along with a single page dumped on us even though the history of the Green Lanterns tell us otherwise? This whole idea is ridiculous.

And it's not as if creating a solar system is the best feat a Green Lantern has ever done before. People can throw all the Geoff Johns wanking they want at me, but I'll still consider that crap writing.

Originally posted by batdude123
Uh, sorry. I'm not willing to discard years of continuity based on a single ridiculous page. Geoff Johns be damned...

i'm not saying anyone should, just that isn't at least within the realm of possibility that the ring, charge permitting, has limits?



i googled and googled, but can't seem to find an interview where johns explains what he means...



No, i'm not...



we're talking about creating a solar system in its entirety... planets full of people with their own lives and buildings and everything...

i mean, for all we know, john was trying to literally recreate the entire thing, not just constructs, but create life out of nothingness...

Hal]

i think Thors over rated, but im interested and might start reading some thor storys

Originally posted by batdude123
Uh, sorry. I'm not willing to discard years of continuity based on a single ridiculous page. Geoff Johns be damned...



That's the first time I've seen a ring straight up quit on a task that had nothing to do with its charging. So...



The Guardians have lied before? So are you trying to tell me that you'd go along with a single page dumped on us even though the history of the Green Lanterns tell us otherwise? This whole idea is ridiculous.

And it's not as if creating a solar system is the best feat a Green Lantern has ever done before. People can throw all the Geoff Johns wanking they want at me, but I'll still consider that crap writing. http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/bigdurimagera2.png

Originally posted by batdude123
I know mentioning something like that is taboo around here, especially since they\'re close to evenly matched in the power department, and because Thor is "teh gawd of thunda!!!" However, tell me something; what makes Thor immune to having his blood transmuted? Has he ever resisted something of this manner?

Now, this isn\'t me saying Hal will do this in a fight against Thor. I\'m just questioning the reasons as to why people might not think it\'s valid.

A valid question. Here's why:

One: Thor can transmute matter himself. Anyone with a similar power is most likely immune to it, or could reverse its affects.
Two: Gods, much like Eternals, won't be killed by anything except things at the molecular dispersion level. Such god-like durability (excuse the pun) is bound to hinder transmutation attempts.
Three: Mjolnir's magical nature, ability to absorb all manner of attacks (psychic, energy, magical, etc.) means that such an attack would probably have a hard time working at all since he could negate it.
Four: It's never been done, except by the Infinity Gauntlet

Does that means he's 100% for sure immune? No. But it's a pretty strong case against it.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
I actually agree. I think he would get the majority over Hal, but DEFINATELY not curb.

A reasonable stance.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
A valid question. Here's why:

One: Thor can transmute matter himself. Anyone with a similar power is most likely immune to it, or could reverse its affects.
Two: Gods, much like Eternals, won't be killed by anything except things at the molecular dispersion level. Such god-like durability (excuse the pun) is bound to hinder transmutation attempts.
Three: Mjolnir's magical nature, ability to absorb all manner of attacks (psychic, energy, magical, etc.) means that such an attack would probably have a hard time working at all since he could negate it.
Four: It's never been done, except by the Infinity Gauntlet

Does that means he's 100% for sure immune? No. But it's a pretty strong case against it.


Its not direct evidence of Thor resisting molecular transmutation, but here's an instance of Thor resisting having his molecules "frozen"...
http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/7105/avengersv101410ma2.jpg
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/2133/avengersv101411vw7.jpg
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/5940/avengersv101412bc0.jpg

Thor wins this, but it wont be easy. Defiantly not a curb-stomp.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Its not direct evidence of Thor resisting molecular transmutation, but here's an instance of Thor resisting having his molecules "frozen"...
http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/7105/avengersv101410ma2.jpg
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/2133/avengersv101411vw7.jpg
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/5940/avengersv101412bc0.jpg

Silver age comics are the best! Kallusian minion, "I have frozen your molecules... but have left you the ability to hear my leader's bad-guy speech! Do not question the science behind our molecule-freezing ray gun! You Earthlings would never understand our superior Kallusian technology! 'Klaatu barada niktu,' our lightly shaded purple a$$es!"

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Thor can't manipulate time. Immortus removed that power. Mindset: If you go that way, then what has Thor done?

You know, that Odin power stuff Thor possesses does have control over time and space, and yes, he's used it before.

Hal. Not easily.

I respectfully disagree with the above assessment. ^_^

Classic Thor. Not easily.

Current Odinforce Thor who can recreate an entire pantheon of Gods and their entire kingdom and keep it floating over Oklahoma? Very easily.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0 I respectfully disagree with the above assessment._ ^_^Classic Thor._ Not easily.Current Odinforce Thor who can recreate an entire pantheon of Gods and their entire kingdom and keep it floating over Oklahoma?_ Very easily. One would assume that the thread started meant Classic Thor. One would also assume one would assume that Thor would get shot with a green bullet and faint.

Originally posted by fangirl101
One would assume that the thread started meant Classic Thor. One would also assume one would assume that Thor would get shot with a green bullet and faint. Considering that forum rules state that you should always assume current incarnations unless stated otherwise... I would again respectfully disagree. And considering I've never seen classic Thor faint from getting shot with a bullet... again... I respectfully disagree.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Considering that forum rules state that you should always assume current incarnations unless stated otherwise... I would again respectfully disagree. And considering I've never seen classic Thor faint from getting shot with a bullet... again... I respectfully disagree.

You've never seen Thor faint from a bullet? Um yes, he has fainted from a bullet before.

classic thor was awful when it came to machine gun fire, iirc, the modern one on the other hand, is superman-like when it comes to standing there looking bored as the bullets bounce off of him...

i'd say current hal beats classic thor (and not just using machine gun fire), but if this current thor is as powerful as is claimed, then he should take it...

that said, if i was writing the comic, i couldn't write hal beating any version of thor... something about him being a god, i dunno...

Originally posted by Raoul classic thor was awful when it came to machine gun fire, iirc, the modern one on the other hand, is superman-like when it comes to standing there looking bored as the bullets bounce off of him...i'd say current hal beats classic thor (and not just using machine gun fire), but if this current thor is as powerful as is claimed, then he should take it...that said, if i was writing the comic, i couldn't write hal beating any version of thor... something about him being a god, i dunno... A god who runs around with Superheroes? And let's the Hulk whoop on his ass? There have always been major Gods and lessor ones. If One were to look at the length of comics history, Silver Surfer would seem more Godlike than Thor.

Originally posted by fangirl101
A god who runs around with Superheroes? And let's the Hulk whoop on his ass? There have always been major Gods and lessor ones. If One were to look at the length of comics history, Silver Surfer would seem more Godlike than Thor.

i'd have hal beat norrin (though not all the time), but not thor...

Originally posted by Raoul
i'd have hal beat norrin (though not all the time), but not thor...

See, I would have SS kicking Thor's ass and probably at least half on Hal. Especially with those new suck ass rings.

Originally posted by fangirl101
See, I would have SS kicking Thor's ass and probably at least half on Hal. Especially with those new suck ass rings.

i'd have ss take thor for a majority...

i'd hal take an even split against norrin...

i'd have thor take a majority against hal...

yeah, it doesn't make sense...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I respectfully disagree with the above assessment. ^_^

Classic Thor. Not easily.

Current Odinforce Thor who can recreate an entire pantheon of Gods and their entire kingdom and keep it floating over Oklahoma? Very easily.

He woke them up, he didn't recreate them. And Asgard floating is impressive, but fairly worthless for battle purposes. I agree Thor wins, but the Current Thor wankfest in the forum as opposed to Classic annoys me a bit.

Originally posted by Raoul
i'd have ss take thor for a majority...

i'd hal take an even split against norrin...

i'd have thor take a majority against hal...

yeah, it doesn't make sense...

I can agree.

Originally posted by Raoul
i'd have ss take thor for a majority...

i'd hal take an even split against norrin...

i'd have thor take a majority against hal...

yeah, it doesn't make sense...

Originally posted by Raoul
i'd have ss take thor for a majority...

i'd hal take an even split against norrin...

i'd have thor take a majority against hal...

yeah, it doesn't make sense...

No, it does. Strengths and weaknesses rarely match up in an A>B>C manner with similarly-powered characters. And this matches fairly well with forum consensus as well, though quite a few would give Surfer a slight majority on Hal.

Originally posted by fangirl101
I can agree.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU


glad i'm not the only one...

Originally posted by DigiMark007
No, it does. Strengths and weaknesses rarely match up in an A>B>C manner with similarly-powered characters. And this matches fairly well with forum consensus as well, though quite a few would give Surfer a slight majority on Hal.

if i had to choose one over the other, i'd pick norrin over hal... though thats probably because ss was the first comic i've ever read...

Originally posted by Raoul
if i had to choose one over the other, i'd pick norrin over hal... though thats probably because ss was the first comic i've ever read...

I was originally a Thor-backer vs. Norrin. But was swayed the other direction by the forum (though I still think Thor takes some). Surfer really is the class of his power level, despite almost equally as impressive feats from the likes of Thor and Hal. They're really the A-list talent at herald, so there's not really a wrong answer.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I was originally a Thor-backer vs. Norrin. But was swayed the other direction by the forum (though I still think Thor takes some). Surfer really is the class of his power level, despite almost equally as impressive feats from the likes of Thor and Hal. They're really the A-list talent at herald, so there's not really a wrong answer.

yeah, i know what you mean... i'd generally give norrin the nod over anyone in his field, even clark... and god knows i've looked for ways for clark to take him...

Did anyone read the recent Nova.

Silver Surfer took Nova's best attack and was unfazed. He appeared to be on a whole new level in that comic.

He is the basically the be all end all of that power level.

Originally posted by Raoul
yeah, i know what you mean... i'd generally give norrin the nod over anyone in his field, even clark... and god knows i've looked for ways for clark to take him...



Originally posted by Newjak
Did anyone read the recent Nova.

Silver Surfer took Nova's best unfazed. He appeared to be on a whole new level in that comic.

He is the basically the be all end all of that power level.

No argument. Though I'd caution against wanking him too hard. He's still the class of top tier herald, nothing more. Soon we'll be hearing teh Sub-Skyfather chants, which I think would be a mistake.

i keep meaning to read that nova... dammit...

Originally posted by DigiMark007




No argument. Though I'd caution against wanking him too hard. He's still the class of top tier herald, nothing more. Soon we'll be hearing teh Sub-Skyfather chants, which I think would be a mistake. I yeah I definitely wouldn't put him that far.

Originally posted by Raoul
i keep meaning to read that nova... dammit... You need to. If for nothing else then the absolute sweet feat Silver Surfer pulls off in it. It is just sweet.

Originally posted by Newjak
I yeah I definitely wouldn't put him that far.

You need to. If for nothing else then the absolute sweet feat Silver Surfer pulls off in it. It is just sweet.

i havent read norrin since that last awful arc...

Originally posted by Raoul
i havent read norrin since that last awful arc... Are you talking about the Fantastic Four one?

If so then this comic makes up for it almost.

Originally posted by Newjak
Are you talking about the Fantastic Four one?

If so then this comic makes up for it almost.

no, the other one... with the planets at war, in thy name, or something...

Originally posted by Raoul
no, the other one... with the planets at war, in thy name, or something... I'm not sure what you are talking about.

Annihilation?

In Thy Name was solid.

Originally posted by Newjak
I'm not sure what you are talking about.

Annihilation?

no, it was the last one before this one...

Originally posted by Juntai
In Thy Name was solid.

i just didn't like it...

Oh ok I never read that one.

Thor wins.

Thor ftw

Surfer: In thy name was a good comic. Nova #14 was great as well, and it seems that SS was simply depicted as not holding back. His silent dismantling of Nova was chilling though.

Thor win and I give thor a small nod against the surfer, a very small nod. They are basically about even in every dept but I just give a small edge, dont know why though.

Originally posted by Ouallada
Surfer: In thy name was a good comic. Nova #14 was great as well, and it seems that SS was simply depicted as not holding back. His silent dismantling of Nova was chilling though.

QFT. Nova best attack barely fazed SS. Personally id like to see him like this more often.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
One: Thor can transmute matter himself. Anyone with a similar power is most likely immune to it, or could reverse its affects.

From my experience, all I've seen Thor "transmute" is the clothing he was wearing. Is it still transmutation? Yes, however it's nothing all too impressive that would lend me to believe Thor is a master at manipulating matter.

There's also that ambiguous scan of Thor turning the Absorbing Man into helium that's labeled as "transmutation" in the respect thread. However, based on the nature of Absorbing Man's powers, it's more likely that Thor simply emanated helium from his hammer which made contact with Creel. He's done that kind of thing before to AM when he created a tornado.

Also, the idea that Thor is immune to any form of transmutation is quite folly, considering he's already been turned into a frog (by Sersi, I believe).

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Two: Gods, much like Eternals, won't be killed by anything except things at the molecular dispersion level. Such god-like durability (excuse the pun) is bound to hinder transmutation attempts.

See frog example above.

Also, the Asgardians aren't immortal. I seem to recall Thor being on the verge of death after being stabbed by a spear. They needed to use mystical means in order to heal him, otherwise he would've died.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Three: Mjolnir's magical nature, ability to absorb all manner of attacks (psychic, energy, magical, etc.) means that such an attack would probably have a hard time working at all since he could negate it.

Okay, but we're not talking about something Thor can just absorb. This is transmutation that would occur on the inside of his body.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Four: It's never been done, except by the Infinity Gauntlet

Once again, I reference the frog example.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Does that means he's 100% for sure immune? No. But it's a pretty strong case against it.

I know Thor isn't 100% immune to transmutation.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Its not direct evidence of Thor resisting molecular transmutation, but here's an instance of Thor resisting having his molecules "frozen"...
http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/7105/avengersv101410ma2.jpg
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/2133/avengersv101411vw7.jpg
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/5940/avengersv101412bc0.jpg

Completely different circumstances. Just because the word "molecules" is referenced in those scans doesn't mean anything all that special. There's a difference between having your atoms rearranged into another substance (transmutation) and having all the kinetic energy in your body halted (freezing).

Originally posted by batdude123


There's also that ambiguous scan of Thor turning the Absorbing Man into helium that's labeled as "transmutation" in the respect thread. However, based on the nature of Absorbing Man's powers, it's more likely that Thor simply emanated helium from his hammer which made contact with Creel.

In that very same comic, I believe Thor said, "I have the power to transmute the elements themselves"
I'm going to see if I can find more scans of JIM #115 for solid proof of that.

Originally posted by Jugglenaut
In that very same comic, I believe Thor said, "I have the power to transmute the elements themselves"
I'm going to see if I can find more scans of JIM #115 for solid proof of that.

As in, he created some helium... he didn't transmute AM.

if this is classic vs classic then Hal takes it. Thor has been shown on multiple occastions to be ko'ed by signicant energy blasts. not say hal would win it easly or with out major injury. I see hall taken this 5.5 (the .5 would be a double ko)

^ If it's a double ko... then should Thor also get a .5 and thus a 5.5? :P
Originally posted by DigiMark007
He woke them up, he didn't recreate them. And Asgard floating is impressive, but fairly worthless for battle purposes. I agree Thor wins, but the Current Thor wankfest in the forum as opposed to Classic annoys me a bit. I think both of our characterizations are off. I can agree that he reincarnated them. But he did recreate the Asgardian kingdom from scratch. Either way, it's simple. We saw what he did with the Odinforce during 'The Reigning' storyline. He possesses the Odinforce on-panel. No limitations have been assessed. Simple deduction says that it's more arguable he should suffer no limitation this time around. At the very least, he has demonstrated greater power than classic Thor, taking a Destroyer shot, recreating Asgard, etc. I can understand if you disagree that Odinforce Thor does not equal Odin. But Odinforce Thor is a wiser, more at peace, King Thor.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ If it's a double ko... then should Thor also get a .5 and thus a 5.5? :P
I think both of our characterizations are off. I can agree that he reincarnated them. But he did recreate the Asgardian kingdom from scratch. Either way, it's simple. We saw what he did with the Odinforce during 'The Reigning' storyline. He possesses the Odinforce on-panel. No limitations have been assessed. Simple deduction says that it's more arguable he should suffer no limitation this time around. At the very least, he has demonstrated greater power than classic Thor, taking a Destroyer shot, recreating Asgard, etc. I can understand if you disagree that Odinforce Thor does not equal Odin. But Odinforce Thor is a wiser, more at peace, King Thor.

I'd say Classic Thor+, but then again, I think I missed the last few issues. Your assessment seems very fair.

Originally posted by jasofisc
if this is classic vs classic then Hal takes it. Thor has been shown on multiple occastions to be ko'ed by signicant energy blasts.

Not even Thanos could KO him with just ONE blast.

Originally posted by jasofisc
if this is classic vs classic then Hal takes it. Thor has been shown on multiple occastions to be ko'ed by signicant energy blasts. not say hal would win it easly or with out major injury. I see hall taken this 5.5 (the .5 would be a double ko)

I'd like to see citations of those instances. Because Thor has better energy absorbing feats than anyone at this level. Anyone.

Originally posted by Jugglenaut
In that very same comic, I believe Thor said, "I have the power to transmute the elements themselves"
I'm going to see if I can find more scans of JIM #115 for solid proof of that.

Creel doesn't become everything he touches. Assuming he did in that instance is most likely false. Transmutation is the far more likely interpretation.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Creel doesn't become everything he touches. Assuming he did in that instance is most likely false. Transmutation is the far more likely interpretation.

Oh really now?

http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thor1zd5.jpg
http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thor2hg9.jpg

I rest my case.

Hal Jordan bathing Thor in an aura of GL energy and transmuting his blood into acid and killing him is about as likely as Thor trapping Hal in a Mjolnir vortex, stripping him of his powers and shrinking him down and trapping him in a glass ball.

Except I'm actually seen Thor do the latter on-panel to an opponent, whereas I've not seen Hal do the former against anybody.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Hal Jordan bathing Thor in an aura of GL energy and transmuting his blood into acid and killing him is about as likely as Thor trapping Hal in a Mjolnir vortex, stripping him of his powers and shrinking him down and trapping him in a glass ball.

Except I'm actually seen Thor do the latter on-panel to an opponent, whereas I've not seen Hal do the former against anybody.

Originally posted by batdude123
Now, this isn't me saying Hal will do this in a fight against Thor.

Kthx.

Before you interject with your opinion next time, you might want to understand the whole argument.

Originally posted by batdude123
I know mentioning something like that is taboo around here, especially since they're close to evenly matched in the power department, and because Thor is "teh gawd of thunda!!!" However, tell me something; what makes Thor immune to having his blood transmuted? Has he ever resisted something of this manner?

Now, this isn't me saying Hal will do this in a fight against Thor. I'm just questioning the reasons as to why people might not think it's valid.And I'm responding to this underlined part of your posts, numbnuts. You're questioning our reasons as to why people might not think it's valid. I don't think it's valid. I gave you my reasons why.

Before you act all flustered, try not being so selective in your own quotes next time. You don't care for my response, fine. Next time you don't want anyone but Digi to respond to your posts, clarify that ahead of time.

Kthx.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And I'm responding to this underlined part of your posts, numbnuts. You're questioning our reasons as to why people might not think it's valid. I don't think it's valid. I gave you my reasons why.

I was asking for justification as to why people might think Thor is above transmutation.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Before you act all flustered, try not being so selective in your own quotes next time. You don't care for my response, fine. Next time you don't want anyone but Digi to respond to your posts, clarify that ahead of time.

Kthx.

Who's the flustered one here? I wasn't the one who called the other guy "numbnuts." Hypocrisy much?

Originally posted by batdude123
I was asking for justification as to why people might think Thor is above transmutation.If you hadn't added at the very end, "I'm just questioning the reasons as to why people might not think it's valid." When the "it" you refer to is Hal transmuting Thor's blood into acid, I might have understood your narrow request dictating how people may respond to your posts. As it is, in my own mind, I personally didn't cut out that part of your original post and ignore it as you attempted to do at the top of this page. I took your post as a whole and responded in kind.
Originally posted by batdude123
Who's the flustered one here? I wasn't the one who called the other guy "numbnuts." Hypocrisy much? When you take the time to accuse me of not understanding the whole argument, I interpreted that as being flustered. If you're not flustered, that's great. As it stands then, all you're doing is dictating how people respond in free-discussion threads and selectively remembering what you asked for. That still makes you a numbnuts in my book. And I don't need to be flustered to assess that, just disappointed in your attitude and tone.

Kthx.

Originally posted by batdude123
Oh really now?

http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thor1zd5.jpg
http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thor2hg9.jpg

I rest my case.

Thor scattered his atoms, by his own words. If Creel became everything he touched, he'd turn to brick every time he got knocked into a building, or become the material of his shoes, or the air, or....

I rest my case as well.

Using Creel as an example is a bad idea either way. Since he's been shown to both transform by touch, and by thought. He's inconsistent in that regard.

"Hal Jordan bathing Thor in an aura of GL energy and transmuting his blood into acid and killing him is about as likely as Thor trapping Hal in a Mjolnir vortex, stripping him of his powers and shrinking him down and trapping him in a glass ball."

^ See Hal's fight with the first Shaggy Man. Hal shrunk Shaggy and stuffed him into a container. Or how about when Hal came back from the dead? You want to pull out insane feats, I can match you. But don't play the 'My guy can do crazy shit, but your guy can't' card.

^Just a note, those feats aren't exactly the same as the one in contention, are they?

Originally posted by batdude123
Completely different circumstances. Just because the word "molecules" is referenced in those scans doesn't mean anything all that special. There's a difference between having your atoms rearranged into another substance (transmutation) and having all the kinetic energy in your body halted (freezing).
I know, I evedn pointed out it wasn't actually an instance of him resisting transmutation in my post.

But when you say it like that, they do seem to suggest that Thor may be immune to having his speed stolen...

Thor>Flash

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
See Hal's fight with the first Shaggy Man. Hal shrunk Shaggy and stuffed him into a container. Or how about when Hal came back from the dead? You want to pull out insane feats, I can match you. But don't play the 'My guy can do crazy shit, but your guy can't' card. Meh. This is current Hal Jordan, not pre-Crisis Hal Jordan. And that still isn't transmuting a foe's blood into acid. Besides, Hal's ability to come back from the dead AFTER Thor kills him doesn't seem to have much application in a KMC fight... since by that point... Thor would have won that round?
Originally posted by darthgoober
I know, I evedn pointed out it wasn't actually an instance of him resisting transmutation in my post.

But when you say it like that, they do seem to suggest that Thor may be immune to having his speed stolen... Oh... snap. You have opened up a can of worms now, haven't you?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ If it's a double ko... then should Thor also get a .5 and thus a 5.5? :P
I think both of our characterizations are off. I can agree that he reincarnated them. But he did recreate the Asgardian kingdom from scratch. Either way, it's simple. We saw what he did with the Odinforce during 'The Reigning' storyline. He possesses the Odinforce on-panel. No limitations have been assessed. Simple deduction says that it's more arguable he should suffer no limitation this time around. At the very least, he has demonstrated greater power than classic Thor, taking a Destroyer shot, recreating Asgard, etc. I can understand if you disagree that Odinforce Thor does not equal Odin. But Odinforce Thor is a wiser, more at peace, King Thor.

hall wins 5 out right and thor wins 4 out right the tenth battle is a double ko which puts hal at 5.5 and thor at 4.5 that's what I ment

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Meh. This is current Hal Jordan, not pre-Crisis Hal Jordan. And that still isn't transmuting a foe's blood into acid. Besides, Hal's ability to come back from the dead AFTER Thor kills him doesn't seem to have much application in a KMC fight... since by that point... Thor would have won that round?

i thought the crisis didn't apply to green lanterns?

imo, there are plenty of characters it doesn't apply to, but thats just me...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If you hadn't added at the very end, "I'm just questioning the reasons as to why people might not think it's valid." When the "it" you refer to is Hal transmuting Thor's blood into acid, I might have understood your narrow request dictating how people may respond to your posts. As it is, in my own mind, I personally didn't cut out that part of your original post and ignore it as you attempted to do at the top of this page. I took your post as a whole and responded in kind.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Hal Jordan bathing Thor in an aura of GL energy and transmuting his blood into acid and killing him is about as likely as Thor trapping Hal in a Mjolnir vortex, stripping him of his powers and shrinking him down and trapping him in a glass ball.

Except I'm actually seen Thor do the latter on-panel to an opponent, whereas I've not seen Hal do the former against anybody.

Your reasons as to why Hal wouldn't do something like that is because of CIS. I already addressed that in my previous sentence.

I was asking why people feel that Thor is above transmutation when he shown in the past that he isn't.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
When you take the time to accuse me of not understanding the whole argument, I interpreted that as being flustered.

You pointed out that Hal wouldn't do that in a fight against Thor (akin to CIS). I already said Hal doing that in a fight is highly improbable, so I didn't understand why you decided to echo a thought.

So, you either didn't understand the argument, or you had a very limited understanding of the discussion. Either way, it wasn't me being flustered; I was simply stating a fact.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If you're not flustered, that's great. As it stands then, all you're doing is dictating how people respond in free-discussion threads and selectively remembering what you asked for. That still makes you a numbnuts in my book. And I don't need to be flustered to assess that, just disappointed in your attitude and tone.

Kthx.

The rest of this is just ad hominem gibberish.

Originally posted by Raoul
i thought the crisis didn't apply to green lanterns?

imo, there are plenty of characters it doesn't apply to, but thats just me...

It doesn't, definitely not for the Corps. It varies for other characters.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
It doesn't, definitely not for the Corps. It varies for other characters.

thought so...

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Thor scattered his atoms, by his own words. If Creel became everything he touched, he'd turn to brick every time he got knocked into a building, or become the material of his shoes, or the air, or....

I rest my case as well.



Is this a serious argument?

First of all, Thor created a tornado and Creel said "I'm absorbing the wind!!!!" Nothing exotic was used in that encounter. The fact that his "atoms were scattered" is a technicality, because Thor desisted the tornado. What happened as a result was Creel being "scattered" everywhere.

Also, I forgot to show that before that, Creel states that he "absorbed the muscle of New York- steel and concrete. And you can't beat New York, ya damned hippie!!!"

Originally posted by batdude123
You pointed out that Hal wouldn't do that in a fight against Thor (akin to CIS). I already said Hal doing that in a fight is highly improbable, so I didn't understand why you decided to echo a thought.

So, you either didn't understand the argument, or you had a very limited understanding of the discussion. Either way, it wasn't me being flustered; I was simply stating a fact.

The rest of this is just ad hominem gibberish. You never stated in your original post that it was highly improbable. Thus I could never have repeated it. You only said, "Now, this isn't me saying Hal will do this in a fight against Thor." That's hardly equatable to "Hal doing that in a fight is highly improbable." Your response was ambiguous. Sorry if I didn't read your mind. Since I didn't know that's what you actually meant, I decided to post my opinion. It's a free country. Your memory of what you actually said is selective. Which ought to embarass you, since we only have to look at the original posts to see what was actually said. I rest my case.

Kthx.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
It doesn't, definitely not for the Corps. It varies for other characters. Respectfully disagree. The Crisis completely changed the history of the DC universe. Wonder Woman only came to Man's World much later, Superman never had all the adventures he had, etc. That level of change completely affected which adventures Hal Jordan and Guy Gardner would have had and they were erased.

Those events and thus, those feats are retconned into a separate history. This is a different retcon from the Infinite Crisis one, where reality arranged itself to fit certain pieces in and slightly change details while keeping the whole timeline intact (especially so, since the 52 Multiverse still exists). 'Crisis on Infinite Earths' erased entire characters and events from existence.

The Guardians and the Corps may be among the few who are aware of the change, but that doesn't undo the retcon. If history says certain events never happened because a new history interposed itself, then you sweep it under the rug. That's the point of pre-Crisis and post-Crisis. It's the exact same rationale as to why we disregard future divergent timelines that revert back to normal. Although Thor retains all his memories and the same power from events in 'The Reigning,' we don't acknowledge him destroying Cap's shield as canon. Although Superman and Batman retain all their memories and their powers from 'Absolute Power,' we don't regard Superman shattering Wonder Woman's bracelets as canon.

Not applying the rule backwards simply because the Guardians, Hal and Guy remember that the Crisis happened would be a double standard. And an extremely selective double standard at that. My two cents.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Superman never had all the adventures he had, etc.

Just a small note, Superman's pre-CoiE history with the Legion, and the JLA have been retroactively canon-ized.

Truth. When Geoff Johns does the same for the Green Lanterns, I'll accept it. Til then, it's speculation and a selective double standard to me.

Wait. Pre-Crisis history with the JLA also? Superman was never a founding member of the JLA since the original Crisis took effect. I know Wonder Woman was retconned back into being a founding member of the JLA in 'Infinite Crisis,' but when did Geoff Johns say that Superman's pre-Crisis history with the JLA was reinstated?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You never stated in your original post that it was highly improbable. Thus I could never have repeated it. You only said, "Now, this isn't me saying Hal will do this in a fight against Thor." That's hardly equatable to "Hal doing that in a fight is highly improbable." Your response was ambiguous. Sorry if I didn't read your mind. Since I didn't know that's what you actually meant, I decided to post my opinion. It's a free country. Your memory of what you actually said is selective. Which ought to embarass you, since we only have to look at the original posts to see what was actually said. I rest my case.

Kthx.

How exactly did you interpret "this isn't me saying Hal will do this in a fight?"

There's nothing for me to be embarrassed about, if anything you should be embarrassed about misinterpreting something black and white.

Your argument would make sense if I said "Hal Jordan would totally transmute Thor's blood into acid if they were to fight!!!"

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Truth. When Geoff Johns does the same for the Green Lanterns, I'll accept it. Til then, it's speculation and a selective double standard to me.

Wait. Pre-Crisis history with the JLA also? Superman was never a founding member of the JLA since the original Crisis took effect. I know Wonder Woman was retconned back into being a founding member of the JLA in 'Infinite Crisis,' but when did Geoff Johns say that Superman's pre-Crisis history with the JLA was reinstated?

It's unclear as to whether it's his entire pre-CoiE JLA history, or only specific adventures. There have just been references (in Action or Superman, I cannot recall) to pre-CoiE JLA stories.