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they fight in the geonosian hangar, all out. and if you dont like that location they can fight on instalation 05 in the controll room.

I'm gonna asume this is NJO Luke. Luke takes this in sabes,force and all out.



Installation 05 control room? Is that a Halo reference

Originally posted by Darth Hord
I'm gonna asume this is NJO Luke. Luke takes this in sabes,force and all out.



Installation 05 control room? Is that a Halo reference

why yes, yes it is

Luke severely screws him analy.

crylaugh

Luke blinks and wins all 3 fights.

luke is basaically the chunk norris of star wars minus the round house kick


actullay i wonder who would win in a fight

Originally posted by Man of Christ
why yes, yes it is

Clever but that made me wonder if a the flood could get Bane with is orbalisks armor even if they got his face that would be a messed up combat form.

Force - Luke.
Sabers - Bane.
All out - Bane.

Originally posted by NateGreySummers
Force - Luke.
Sabers - Bane.
All out - Bane.

you must be new to the star wars galaxy.

No, I'm just someone not so easily swayed by worthless feats such as Luke moving so quickly that he might as well have been wielding ten or twenty lightsabers; or destroying a small army of non force sensitive Yuuzhan Vong. In a world where Jedi are described as one man armies (by GL himself), where padawans can move at invisible speeds (Obi-Wan in TPM) and where low rate Sith like Maul can single handedly demolish the most powerful crime syndicate in the Galaxy, feats such as those mentioned really don't mean anything. Not to mention that he was in a force meld with Jacen and Jaina when he does both feats anyway.

Bane on the other hand is able to move at speeds far too great for the eyes of force sensitives to see, so fast that time even appeared to have stopped for them, and was able to absolutely dominate Kas'im in a duel; the same Kas'im who mastered all seven forms and spent years perfecting them, and who was stated as being the greatest technical swordsman at the time, and possibly the greatest ever, and this is a Bane who was yet to grow as powerful as he does in Ro2, and before acquiring the orbalisk armour.

In the force battle, Luke probably has him beat, but hardly by much given Bane' strength in the force and achieved feats.

Originally posted by NateGreySummers
No, I'm just someone not so easily swayed by worthless feats such as Luke moving so quickly that he might as well have been wielding ten or twenty lightsabers; or destroying a small army of non force sensitive Yuuzhan Vong. In a world where Jedi are described as one man armies (by GL himself), where padawans can move at invisible speeds (Obi-Wan in TPM) and where low rate Sith like Maul can single handedly demolish the most powerful crime syndicate in the Galaxy, feats such as those mentioned really don't mean anything. Not to mention that he was in a force meld with Jacen and Jaina when he does both feats anyway.

Bane on the other hand is able to move at speeds far too great for the eyes of force sensitives to see, so fast that time even appeared to have stopped for them, and was able to absolutely dominate Kas'im in a duel; the same Kas'im who mastered all seven forms and spent years perfecting them, and who was stated as being the greatest technical swordsman at the time, and possibly the greatest ever, and this is a Bane who was yet to grow as powerful as he does in Ro2, and before acquiring the orbalisk armour.

In the force battle, Luke probably has him beat, but hardly by much given Bane' strength in the force and achieved feats.

Noobaris, Luke is the most powerful force user and saber duelist in the SW galaxy. You've been proven wrong on every occasion. Bane isn't anywhere near Luke's level. You lose as usual. Enjoy getting banned.

So is Luke. And in the fight of his life, Bane was very visible to the Jedi he was fighting. And his apprentice's

The same Kas'im who feigned a weakness till he could play his trump card?

Against the undisputed greatest ever?

How does he grow more powerful in RoT? And should Luke just zap the orbalisks with the Electric judgment, ending the fight immediately
Bane's head is wide open, too.

All dwarfed by Luke's

Originally posted by Lightsnake
So is Luke.

Far faster than the eyes of a force user could follow? A force user of Kas'im's calibre? Where exactly is this stated or shown?



This is, at best, an unsupported assumption.



LMAO. I'll concede every argument I've ever made if you can point out where this is ever stated or shown.



As an overall swordsman (including force ability and physical attributes as well as technique)? Not only completely unsupported, but unsupportable when using canon evidence. Purely technical ability? Laughable given Luke's mostly self trained and was only ever properly trained in a rushed manner at numerous different points of time.



After going to Dxun, and uncovering "astonishing new knowledge and power -- power that will altere him in ways he could never have imagined..."



Right. I forgot that Bane no longer had the ability to block lightning with his saber. My bad.



Didn't say it wasn't, but it's a minuscule target in comparison to Luke's entire body, and means that Bane can nearly fully focus on his offense.



Hardly. There's no feat of Luke's that "drawfs" the way in which Bane simply absorbs the BoD Masters' lightning (was powerful enough to consume "anything and everything in its path" and would have eventually destroyed Ruusan if the Sith lords kept the ritual going, keeps full control over it, and directs it onto the Forest World that is Ruusan. Nor is Luke ever depicted to have strength in the force on the level of Bane's: the same level of force strength that far eclipsed the entire BoD's.

If only one could prove that the Brotherhood was worth a damn.

Oh noobaris, will your ridiculous bane support ever end?

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Oh noobaris, will your ridiculous bane support ever end?

Ok big guy. You want the support to end? Defeat one of my arguments. I'll quit supporting Bane as soon you prove me wrong on anything. Hey, I'll even let you read through my post count and pick the most easily refutable thing I've ever said. Come on big boy, let's do this.

Originally posted by Gideon
If only one could prove that the Brotherhood was worth a damn.

Given that the era was the most warlike that there's ever been shown in SW canon, it would be silly to think that the Brotherhood was anything but a relatively powerful order of force users, and even if that wasn't the case, the sheer number (hundreds) of force users within the Order would suggest that Bane's strength in the force - being far greater than that of the order in question - would be titanic.

Bane > Sidious.

Ok big guy. You want the support to end? Defeat one of my arguments. I'll quit supporting Bane as soon you prove me wrong on anything. Hey, I'll even let you read through my post count and pick the most easily refutable thing I've ever said. Come on big boy, let's do this.

See below.

Bane > Sidious.

All of canon has disproven this statement. There are many, mnay sources saying that Sidious was greater than any other Sith in history. This means you are wrong, and I proved it. Now that that's done with, stop your Bane fanboyism, or if you can't give it up don't sully the internet with it.

Right, because simply saying that canon says such and such without showing that canon says such and such proves anything.

Nice try, but you failed miserably. Try again.

Read almost any book mentioning Sidious, he is described as the most powerful Sith. Even Death Star, the most recent novel mentioning him calls him the most powerful Sith ever. Quit making yourself look sily.

Originally posted by NateGreySummers
Right, because simply saying that canon says such and such without showing that canon says such and such proves anything.

Nice try, but you failed miserably. Try again.

Except we've embarassed you ever since you first came here with logic, canon sources, the actual TEXT. You make an even bigger fool out of yourself when you try to ignore them or claim they don't exist. This is why you've come back to this forum after being banned 20+ times.

Originally posted by NateGreySummers
Ok big guy. You want the support to end? Defeat one of my arguments. I'll quit supporting Bane as soon you prove me wrong on anything. Hey, I'll even let you read through my post count and pick the most easily refutable thing I've ever said. Come on big boy, let's do this.

You have to win an argument before you can call the trash you write "arguments". Lying to yourself hasn't helped you thus far, don't know why you persist.

Originally posted by NateGreySummers
Given that the era was the most warlike that there's ever been shown in SW canon, it would be silly to think that the Brotherhood was anything but a relatively powerful order of force users, and even if that wasn't the case, the sheer number (hundreds) of force users within the Order would suggest that Bane's strength in the force - being far greater than that of the order in question - would be titanic.

That would require subscribing to the logic that the strength of Force users are dependent on the amount of conflict created during a set time period? While I could see that logic working for technology, that line of thought does not prove that the Brotherhood were anything special.

Likewise, didn't Luke Skywalker manhandle a Force-user whose powers were enhanced by the combined energies of the Colony? Hell, Nebaris, according to your own list Bane ranks below Skywalker.

Excuse the double post, in advance.

Originally posted by NateGreySummers
Right, because simply saying that canon says such and such without showing that canon says such and such proves anything.

Nice try, but you failed miserably. Try again.

Canon isn't bound by your rules, Nebaris. LFL doesn't have to show Darth Sidious performing uberfeat after uberfeat of Force displays to cement his status as the most powerful Sith Lord in history; the statement has been made multiple times in multiple sources. In fact, I'd encourage you to find any source that explicitly names a Sith Lord -- other than Sidious -- as the strongest ever. You won't find one.

Though, I will point out that Sidious does have numerous feats that outstrip those of other Sith (especially the Ancient Sith, who relied on Force magic and augmentation in the form of arcana to assist them). Hell, according to the Dark Empire Sourcebook -- Palpatine's Force Storms "might be the most destructive Force power known" and not only can they "devour fleets" but also "rip the surfaces off worlds" -- which Bane relied on the aforementioned Brotherhood to do.

When you bring up a notable point, sport, we'll talk.

You know that Path of Destruction says that the darkside is stretched to thin due to the numbers of sith. Bane even says that their to many weak in the dark side. So with the exceptions of Bane and probably Kaism who else in the brotherhood could hold a candle to people of the likes of Windu,Yoda,etc.

I "LOL'd" at "Dark Bane" then stopped reading.

Originally posted by NateGreySummers


Far faster than the eyes of a force user could follow? A force user of Kas'im's calibre? Where exactly is this stated or shown?
Try Jacen and Jaina's caliber, or Corran Horn's, or Leia Organa

Read Ro2, mate? Apparently, they can SEE him as they block his attacks and Zannah SEES what he does.
Fancy that

His duel with Bane. His separating his saber, Bane realizing Kas'im was drawing him back, Kas'im's feral grin, Bane realizing the REAL reason he taught Jar'Kai was flawed?

Bane was trained for a grand total of a couple of years. Luke had decades to catch up



Yes, 'alter' him...with the orbalisks. That leave him in chronic agony, that might even kill him...
Yeah, lovely.

Like he did when his own got blasted back at him. Or how Luke isn't powerful enough to overcome that.

It also means that Luke has a target he can go for anyways and Bane's fighting style is to eschew personal safety entirely.
And given that Luke is faster and more skilled...

Like tearing out an SDS's engine, wedging himself in the heart of the force, destroyed an army of Yuuzhan Vong, defeated Darth Caedus, destroying an army of battle droids with a gesture, bringing down an AT AT with the force, shattering a massive castle with the Force with zero effort, immobilizing a full Sith Lord with zero effort..

Bane can't compare to Luke in the Force. Period.

Oh, and when did Bane outmatch all the BoD at once? Right, he didn't...they GAVE themselves to him for the Ritual and pulled back out of fear.
Bane directed their power, he didn't fully control it.

and, oh yeah, Lue has been stated as the most powerful force user....ever. And by Lucas to have the potential to become what Anakin could not.

Just accept Bane isn't the best

LS give it up. Noobaris is a joke. I think Rex should hand me banning powers because I will make sure this fool doesn't return.

And to mention the fact that the BOD jedi and sith are nothing more than bantha fodder whom were easily killed by children who swung lightsabers like monkeys.

They suck ass period, and bane was more powerful than a bunch of weaklings not even a quarter of vaders caliber.

Hello everyone! I'm new to these forums! Nice to meet you!

Originally posted by Sylar
And to mention the fact that the BOD jedi and sith are nothing more than bantha fodder whom were easily killed by children who swung lightsabers like monkeys.

No, it was the non force sensitive minions of the BoD "whom were easily killed by children who swung lightsabers like monkeys." Know what you're talking about, moron.



You've yet to support the idea that the BoD were in any way less powerful than an average order of force users, and still haven't managed to work out that the sheer number of force users would mean that the statement speaks volumes even if the order were a weak one.

No, I'm just someone not so easily swayed by worthless feats such as Luke moving so quickly that he might as well have been wielding ten or twenty lightsabers; or destroying a small army of non force sensitive Yuuzhan Vong. In a world where Jedi are described as one man armies (by GL himself), where padawans can move at invisible speeds (Obi-Wan in TPM) and where low rate Sith like Maul can single handedly demolish the most powerful crime syndicate in the Galaxy, feats such as those mentioned really don't mean anything. Not to mention that he was in a force meld with Jacen and Jaina when he does both feats anyway.

Bane on the other hand is able to move at speeds far too great for the eyes of force sensitives to see, so fast that time even appeared to have stopped for them, and was able to absolutely dominate Kas'im in a duel; the same Kas'im who mastered all seven forms and spent years perfecting them, and who was stated as being the greatest technical swordsman at the time, and possibly the greatest ever, and this is a Bane who was yet to grow as powerful as he does in Ro2, and before acquiring the orbalisk armour.

In the force battle, Luke probably has him beat, but hardly by much given Bane' strength in the force and achieved feats.

Thank the good Lord Lucifer, someone who agree's with me.
As you've probably guessed I don't much care for Luke either. Too nice.
I've just been scared of saying it knowing the huge arse-raping i'd get from Syler etc.

Originally posted by FootGarment


No, it was the non force sensitive minions of the BoD "whom were easily killed by children who swung lightsabers like monkeys." Know what you're talking about, moron.



You've yet to support the idea that the BoD were in any way less powerful than an average order of force users, and still haven't managed to work out that the sheer number of force users would mean that the statement speaks volumes even if the order were a weak one.

Hi Noobaris, you and your sock exodus are going to get banned.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Try Jacen and Jaina's caliber, or Corran Horn's, or Leia Organa

Right, listing names is fun and all, I love doing it too, but you still haven't shown exactly where Luke's said to move far faster than the eyes of the above individuals could see.



Right. For someone who likes to think that he knows his stuff when it comes to Star Wars, you've really managed to miss out on one key detail here Lightsnake. Force user don't rely on their eyesight to defend themselves against attacks. They rely on there force sense and precognition. The fact that they could block Bane's attacks doesn't mean that they can actually visibly see him.



I really fail to see where it's stated that Zannah was able to visibly see Bane whilst he was fighting (primary reason being its not actually there in the passage). Post a quote and page number this time, otherwise don't bother replying.



I'm sorry, but don't be ridiculous. Switching to Jar'Kai, his less practised form, was a move out of desperation. Kas'im did it because he knew that Bane would have defeated him if he had stuck with his saber staff. The cunning smile was indicative of the fact that Kas'im had always claimed that the Jar'Kai system was flawed so as to always be in an advantageous position over his apprentices. That's it, and that's all. You make it sound like Kas'im went easy on Bane to draw him into a false sense of security, and that the plan was always to switch to his dual sabers. Again, sorry, but you're being ridiculous. Kas'im was trying to kill Bane during the part of their fight where he wielded his saber staff. The passage even states that he hoped to end their battle within the first pass. Kas'im was not 'feigning weakness.' He was going full out throughout.



Irrelevant misdirection.

We're not talking about Bane here, we're talking about the guy who he beat: Kas'im, and we're arguing about Luke's technical ability in comparison. I never claimed that Bane was anything special in saber technique, because he probably wasn't, so forming a comparison between his training and Luke's is beyond silly, and draws the topic away from the current argument. The point is, as an overall duelist, he clearly is something special, given how he was able to defeat Kas'im, who as far as technique goes, is leagues beyond Luke, and who wasn't too shoddy when it came to force or physical abilities either.



What are you talking about? Since when is "power" referring to his living armour? It's quite clearly referring to the power surge he goes through after the extra knowledge he receives. One wouldn't refer to such a thing as "power."



Firstly, Bane's lightning =/= Luke's. Given Bane's comparable strength, and the fact that his lightning is one of his primary attacks, whereas Luke's emerald lightning is used only on a small number of occasions, I doubt Luke's refinement of the ability is even approaching the level of Bane's. Not to mention that Bane'd hardly be best prepared to block it whilst focusing on generating the very attack he'd be trying to block anyway.



Again, logic points to Luke's refinement of the attack being on a far lower level than Bane's, and given that you haven't even managed to support Luke being more adept with the force than Bane, to think that one of his less used abilities would overpower a fully prepared Darth Bane is foolish.



Sure it is, but in respect to his protected body. He's not going to be leaving his head unprotected any time soon.



Completely unsupported. Get back to me when Luke can move so fast that it seems like time stops for every force user around him.



Right, because quantity is greater than quality!

All you've managed to do is list as many feats as you can for Luke. Fact remains, nothing he's ever done drawfs Bane's ability to absorb energy powerful enough to destroy an entire planet, control it, and redirect it onto the entire planet. He has a few feats that even compare at best.



Who said he outmatched them all at once? All I said is that he absorbed all of their energy, which he did. The fact that they willingly gave him their energy is irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact that it came in the form of lightning that Bane had to absorb.



He did in the sense that he was able to contain the energy and not be torn apart by it.



Sure. Lue has. Many times in fact. He's more powerful than even Zonamanama Sekot. But Luke hasn't, and Luke isn't.



Yeah, I know exactly what article you're referring to here, and as proven by Advent, all that the article undeniably proves is that Luke, like pre Cyborg Anakin, had the potential to surpass Sidious in power. That's all.



Where did I say I thought he was the best? He's barely making my top ten list, and I actually rate Luke above him.

He did defeat a Rancour all by his oncy savy. Without the help of a well placed door of course.

Sure Noobaris, enjoy the ban.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Sure Noobaris, enjoy the ban.

Out of curiosity, is it DayVid, or DahVid?

It's "hey hey hey, goodbye".

Originally posted by Darth Hord
You know that Path of Destruction Bane says that the darkside is stretched to thin due to the numbers of sith.

That had nothing to do with the personal level of power of the order, but everything to do with the ideas that Bane held of how flawed the legion system of force users was. This is the same Bane that says "if everyone is equal, nobody can be strong," you realise, yes? Don't confuse Bane's strong ideas about how the Sith should be ruled by one strong leader with how powerful the order, as a martial force, actually was.



Right, and 'weak' is a relative term. Bane only had himself, and his perception of how powerful Darth Revan was, to compare with. His standards were ridiculously high, not to mention, what he was saying was mostly based on how he viewed the Sith's ideals and such, not their actual personal level of power.



Well, now you're just being ridiculous. The BoD is probably the most unexplored order of force users that's been featured in SW canon. We don't really know much about the Order at all, or the force users within that order. Trying to compare the two like you're doing is as silly as it gets.

Originally posted by FootGarment


That had nothing to do with the personal level of power of the order, but everything to do with the ideas that Bane held of how flawed the legion system of force users was. This is the same Bane that says "if everyone is equal, nobody can be strong," you realise, yes? Don't confuse Bane's strong ideas about how the Sith should be ruled by one strong leader with how powerful the order, as a martial force, actually was.
It actually had EVERYTHING to do with the level of power. It's not as much of a problem of the dark side stretched thin because the ancient sith lords did it. However, the ancient sith were powerful enough to stretch it while the BOD was absolutely pathetic. There is NO proof whatsoever that the BOD was anything above average, if even that. Sorry Noobaris


Ah, weak is a relative term. Except for when we create certain hierarchies on this forum. Try again.





Except we know that nobody from them ever showed anything. Aside from Zannah, Bane, Kas'im and Hoth, nobody else was worth a damn.

Originally posted by FootGarment


Right, listing names is fun and all, I love doing it too, but you still haven't shown exactly where Luke's said to move far faster than the eyes of the above individuals could see.


I, Jedi. The Unifying Force, Dark Empire audiobok.


Small key detail: It says Zannah SAW him fighting.
Got that? 'Saw?' She looked and SAW Bane fighting.
Saw.
Light passed through her pupils and lenses and presented an image to her brain.

How about you read the fight scene again? Because at no point in the fight was Bane moving faster than all of them could see.
Wanna prove me wrong? Do so

Foolishness.
Bane sees Kas'im's 'feral grin' and realizes exactly why Kas'im hadn't taught anyone Jar'kai: It's his best form. He proceeds to totally outmatch Bane with it. You don't disdain to teach your students the form you're inferior with to insure the advantage.
Kas'im was best with Jar'Kai, at worst, equal to his abilities with a DBL. Bane forced Kas'im back, thinking he knew him too well. Kas'im proceeds to prove him wrong.

Bane did not win the saber fight. You might as well say Obi-wan beat Maul when he sliced his DBL in half



Problem: he did not defeat Kas'im in a technical duel. He used trickery and the force.
And Kas'im is above Luke in 'technique?' Luke, who proved himself skilled enough to compete with Palpatine, who is stated to know every form and style, when the playing field was even and managed to use Jar'Kai with the technique of a master, and wield his saber with enough technique to defeat a veteran lightwhip user?



Righto. Prove it.
The orbalisks are dark side creatures that bring power. They change Bane in ways he never believed possible.
QED

Same Luke who killed a sentient being with his lightning instantly and was easily capable of using it on Kiliks? When is Bane shown to use it to such degrees? Oh, right, his suddenly proficient use in the library after learning it?
The orbalisks die when hit by lightning. FACT. Luke is a master of a lightning tecnique. FACT.







Whose logic? Yours? Answered above. And you're still wrong.
And considering Luke is the more powerful force user...hm.

Which is why it's stated his fighting style is to attack viciously and wildly with no regard for personal safety and is pressed back big time on the defensive.
Without the Orbalisks, Bane would never have stood to Raskta and Farfalla

Needless hyperbole.
Luke moves so fast he absolutely vanishes from sight and clears every side of the room and back again without becoming visible and is only distinguishable by the aura of intense Dark Side power

considering they all qualify as quality, I've both

I think you mean 'direct' it. The BoD were in control of what they were doing. At no point is Bane showing anything but redirecting a unified effort.

Nor does Bane ever do this again. Nor are anyone there but Qordis, Kopecz and Kaan worth anything resembling a damn.

Nice try, but you're distorting truth again

You mean the energy they willingly gave? In a large Sith ritual? the kind of thing that takes intense preparation and can't be done at the drop of a hat?
Show me some INDIVIDUAL feats without fancy rituals and we'll talk
And since when can Bane absorb lightning with his flesh covered? One dead orbalisk and Bane can no longer fight

The freely given energy in time of ritual, right?
Just making sure



So Luke wins? Thankee


'what he was supposed to be'. IE, confirmed as the most powerful Force User ever.
And more powerful than Palpatine is more powerful than Bane. Remind me who the most powerful Sith in 'over a thousand years,' 'of all time'....Never mind Palpatine, a remarkably powerful force lightning practitioner, would hand Ro2 Bane his rear end.

And if you're going to whine how it doesn't mean 'Dark Side' power, do me a favor and shut the **** up.



Whatever you say, Nebaris. What ever you say.

Originally posted by Gideon
Excuse the double post, in advance.

It's inexcusable. Apologize now or I will kill you.



I didn't say that. I was saying that fagg0t crusader had yet to show me how canon points to what he was saying.



That's great, however the statement has always either been ambiguous (DSSB for instance, as has already been explained), or coming from an infallible source (NEC, Heritage of the Sith, Ancients in EE, Vader in Death Star, to name a few (first two sources being in-universe))



Sure I won't, but that doesn't really mean sh1t, considering the fact that Sidious is one of the most heavily explored Sith in the entire mythos. The fact that it's not said about any other Sith means nothing.



Prove that they relied on them. A no name Ancient from the Golden Age of the Sith (who was definitely not as powerful as Ragnos, Sadow, Kressh (given that Ragnos was stated as being the most powerful at the time of his reign, and Sadow and Kressh are directly stated as being the next two powerful), and likely Simus) was able to wipe out the life of an entire planet with one force attack. Their technology was only ever stated to help them focus their force power. They still all possessed the power required for the feats they achieved. Not to mention, the technological augmentations are still a part of their regular



Firstly, Bane and the BoD's storm was of a far larger scale than Palpatine's force storms were ever shown to be, and secondly, the force storms, as support for Palpatine's power, are completely worthless.

1. There's no proof that Sidious can even use them in a close ranged manner without destroying himself in the process. He did, after all, canonically not possess perfect control over them, and he's never shown the level of control required.

2. It's a ritual that requires minimal amounts of force energy, which when focused onto a particular area in one's body, activates a portal of incredible power: a wormhole. It speaks nothing for actual sheer force strength.

3. The ability is canonically stated to grant its user limited control over it. It speaks nothing for Sidious' control either.

So, to recap, they're useless in these scenarios, and aren't testament to Sidious' force ability.



I warned you. Kadesh is approaching you as we speak.

Originally posted by Gideon
That would require subscribing to the logic that the strength of Force users are dependent on the amount of conflict created during a set time period? While I could see that logic working for technology, that line of thought does not prove that the Brotherhood were anything special.

No one's saying that the level of conflict would have a direct effect on a being's strength in the force, Gideon, but the fact remains that conflict separates the weak from the strong, and the people who survive from near constant warfare (which is what the era entailed) are generally the strong ones of the bunch. The BoD, while not possessing large numbers of force users, would logically possess above average ones, and again, the sheer scale: hundreds of force users, speaks a great deal alone.



Hardly. UnuThul, at one time, was able to mind control Luke along with another Jedi, at the same time, and was able to force push him with such force that it would have broken Luke's skull if not for the helmet he had been wearing at the time.

Also, we have no idea exactly how powerful the colony was as a whole, and exactly how it was augmenting Raynar's power.



In force ability, it's very close imo, but yes, I would put Luke slightly above him. But, that doesn't mean that Bane can't defeat him in a saber battle, or overwhelm him in close combat in an all out fight. Not to mention that Bane's displayed an intelligence far beyond that of Luke, and it's not impossible to think that Bane might be able to use his surroundings against Luke, or know the best way to fight him.

Originally posted by FootGarment
No one's saying that the level of conflict would have a direct effect on a being's strength in the force, Gideon, but the fact remains that conflict separates the weak from the strong, and the people who survive from near constant warfare (which is what the era entailed) are generally the strong ones of the bunch. The BoD, while not possessing large numbers of force users, would logically possess above average ones, and again, the sheer scale: hundreds of force users, speaks a great deal alone.
There is absolutely zero logic to that statement Noobaris, try again.




Your opinion is irrelevant when it contradicts facts. You've never won a single debate and you've been pwned in every debate, yet you persist. DE Sidious and Luke would be close in force abilities. Bane and Luke would NOT. Bane's intelligence is not near Luke's level, so quit fellating him homo.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I, Jedi. The Unifying Force, Dark Empire audiobok.

In other words: you've gone back to your lying ways. I really expected better. Those source say no such thing.



Strawman.

I addressed what you mentioned about Zannah in the following block of text. You're replying to what was addressing your assertion that a being able to compete with another force user in a lightsaber battle requires being able to see them. Own up to making a silly claim.



The fact that it was never elaborated on doesn't mean it couldn't have been happening.



BoP is on you. You made the claim that Bane couldn't move faster than the eyes of force users could see in the "fight of his life." Prove up.



No. It was so that he would have a form that his apprentices had no clue how to deal with.



No more than Bane had been outmatching Kas'im just before. The only difference being that Kas'im possessed an unfair advantage in the second part of their fight.



That's not what I was even implying. It's the fact that he hid the form from his students that would make it logical that it wasn't his best form, simply because the majority of his training was spent with the apprentices. The form may have possibly been his most favoured one, but sadly, it was also his least practised one.



Wishful thinking at best. Not to mention the fact that even if Jar'Kai was his better form, it doesn't change the fact that not choosing to use it doesn't mean that he was feigning weakness. Kas'im's plan was to end the battle in the first pass with his double bladed lightsaber. He was not holding back in any sense of the term.



and that's part of what makes Kas'im so badass.



He as good as did. He completely dominated the majority of the battle, toyed with Kas'im, and Kas'im even acknowledges that he had been in the position to kill him, and that he should have "when he had the chance."



Difference being that Obi-Wan hadn't been dominating Maul for the entire fight, but only for a small portion of the battle where he had been in a skill augmented rage.



I'm referring to the first battle. Bane was able to completely overwhelm him in saber combat.



Yes, The guy who mastered every single form for every orthodox form of lightsaber, and spent years perfecting the moves and sequences of is above Luke in 'technique'.



ROFL. Too bad for you that you have no idea exactly what ratio of technique, physical attributes and force ability Luke possessed when competing with him (not even mentioning that he was having his ass augmented via battle meditation at the time). Attributing that entirely to technique is beyond ridiculous.



I'd really love to here where exactly (page number) that's said. Certainly not in anything I've read.



1. Refer directly to the above.

2. You have to be a bit more than just a Master of Jar'Kai to be approaching Kas'im's level of technical ability.



ROFL. Too bad for you that you have no idea exactly what ratio of technique, physical attributes and force ability Luke possessed when defeating a veteran lightwhip user. Attributing that entirely to technique is beyond ridiculous. I also fail to see how the very barely trained Lumiya was anything special in combat.



A gun would bring a low time thug 'power'. Would you ever directly refer to it as such without speaking metaphorically...? Which Drew certainly wasn't.



And his newfound power, which is elaborated on greatly, did the exact same by making him more powerful than he ever believed he could become.



Please tell me how the people he's overpowering here are in any way anything worth jumping up and down and up and down about? That's right, you can't because nothing suggests that these non combat orientated beings didn't suck donkey dick. And the Vong had no defence, so the other feat is worthless as well.



There's that, plus the Storm ritual, plus numerous times in R02. It's clearly one of his primary powers. Luke, on the other hand, uses it a couple of times, and only ever overpowers nobodies with it. Nothing points to his refinement of the technique being on the same level as Bane's.



Bane can use his lightsaber to block lightning. FACT.



Which you've still not supported in any way.



Hyperbole. If he had absolutely no regard for personal safety, then it's logical that the Jedi would have gone for his unprotected head once in a while rather than his protected body, which they were certainly capable of landing hits on. Again: Bane, one the smartest Sith lords there's ever been, would have to be an absolute idiot not to protect his one truly vulnerable body part.



Or perhaps he would have defended himself properly given the real need to.



Because you say so? No. Such a statement is not subject to hyperbolic description. It's a statement made with the clear intent of pointing out that their eyes didn't register to the speed behind his attack.



Right, coming from the audiobook, yes? Which I've read by the way (*waits for someone to point out that you can't actually read an audio-book*), and as it turns out, it would appear that my original assumptions - that you thought you could use as obscure a source as they come to spread as many falsehoods as you wanted - were in fact true. The audiobook doesn't give you any more real information than the comic already does. None of what you've been mentioning, has actually been true.



To a small degree, yes, but really, only one thing you mentioned even approaches what Bane does: the way in which Luke wedges himself in the heart of the force. That's it. The reast is on a firmly lower level. Absorbing as much energy as Bane managed to absorb indicates that his level of force strength was absolutely titanic, and definitely on Luke's level.

ROFL! You attempt to correct something I've said, and then use the exact word in the very same context two sentences later. That's hilarious.

And no, it's "redirect," given Bane was absorbing it first and then directing it.

And again: the fact that it was a unified effort is irrelevant, as Bane still had to absorb, contain, and direct the energy.



He never has the need to do it again, nor does he ever really have access to such a high number of friendly force users.



Your unsupported opinion, which is irrelevant anyway given the power was still described as being able to "consume anything and everything in its path" and described to have eventually destroyed the whole of Ruusan if the ritual remained active. Even if what you say is the case, the combined energy that Bane was absorbing was still clearly on an insane level.



No, that would be you, in virtually every single one of your posts.



Which is irrelevant. As willing as they were, they can't just make their lightning *not* lethal. They can't just direct it at a being and have it be harmless. Bane still had to absorb the lethal energy, and he does it effortlessly.



Irrelevant misdirection. Doesn't say anything bad about the mastery and strength that Bane displays during the ritual.



Irrelevant misdirection. Doesn't say anything bad about the mastery and strength that Bane displays during the ritual.



I'll show you what I want, and list his best feat, which speaks for a level of force ability on par with Luke's.



Didn't say he would be able to, or that he could replicate the feat in the exact same way. The point I was making was that the abilities he displays are testament to great ability in the force, which is transferable through all of his abilities.



Irrelevant misdirection. Doesn't say anything bad about the mastery and strength that Bane displays during the ritual.



Ha.

No.



In the context, he was supposed to surpass Sidious, and that was all, as Advent pointed out to you numerous times.



I've proven how flawed those quotes are countless times. I feel no real obligation to do the same again.



Sure thing. I'll pretend that power as a word is completely unambiguous and that in-universe sources are infallible, like you and everyone here does. We cool now?



You're damn right it's whatever I say.

Good god you are still embarassing yourself Noobaris.

Originally posted by FootGarment


In other words: you've gone back to your lying ways. I really expected better. Those source say no such thing.
They do, actually. And I know since I've read them

The Jedi see Bane. Zannah sees Bane.
When he's fighting/
What more needs to be said?

So you've fallen on burden of negative proof?

Sure: Zannah physically sees him move and his actions are well described in the fight.
How is he moving in blurs now?

Right. And it must have been the form he was worst with.
This makes no sense

Right. That's like saying Bane possessed an unfair advantage in the first since he used his size and strength to his advantage.
Really, now, Kas'im led him back completely

Wait, what? When did Kas'im train WITH them? Not a one of them is his equal whatsoever and Kas'im had a large room to practice by himself in if you haven't forgotten.

Even heard of 'optimum capacity?' he had no chance to switch to it when the battle started.
He displays no sign of the exhaustion he apparently shows when Bane was forcing him back, too



that's said mockingly as Kas'im is grinning.
Bane being a fool squandered his advantage.

So, you know who long the first portion of Bane v. Kas'im lasted in relation to the second where Bane got owned?

Until Kas'im did something new and owned him completely
Kas'im>Bane in sabers. Get over it. Ironically, is Raskta fought Zannah and Sarro fought Bane, the Sith'd be slaughtered

Oh, right. As opposed to the man who was able to master the saber so completely he was able to wield it with 'perfect, speed, precision and power?'

Dark Empire audio book states Leia is removing the darkness 'around' the opponents and is not affecting their battle directly, sorry.
So...Luke is able to compete at that speed with the emperor, moving 'faster than any eye can detect' and you scorn it?
Unsurprising

I really love it how you default on this whenever you're outmatched

How about a master of single and Jar'Kai? With an added bonus of knowing how to fight lightwhips and DBLs, too

Actually, I do. Considering Luke, using a human hand with a 'bit' of force augmentation can crush a rock to powder, is in his LOTF incarnation
And barely trained Lumiya? Same woman who was one of three people to exterminate the Prophets of the Dark Side single handedly, kill a fully trained Jedi Knight and was personally trained in combat by Vader?
When was she 'barely trained?' Please...she's at least as good as Githany. If not better



I'm sure it would. And you've spoken to Drew now to gauge his meaning?


Right. The orbalisks. Changed him in ways he couldn't even imagine


Vong aren't normally even affected by the Force. Plus one for Luke.
Oh, and besides himself, who has Bane pwned with the lightning?

The storm ritual is using direct force lightning?
And Bane uses the lightning a grand total of....twice, then.
Three times counting the ritual.
Wow. I'm so impressed. Especially considering it's not like Luke's had over four times the time Bane's had to study it...

Which is why Bane is left squealing in agony as the orbalisks pop inside of him.
FACT

Besides quotes referring to Luke as the most powerful ever, his demonstrations of ability-unaugmented by an entire other order of Sith unlike some bald Sith

Yeah, because in between having to defend themselves, not knowing what the orbalisks are and having to go for a taller opponent's head-when did any display the same athleticism Luke did?
The book outright states Bane fights with no regard for defense. Find something to prove it wrong or shut up

Like when his own lightning is blasted at him.



Goodie. A bunch of apprentices!
Now, more powerful force users clearly see him

I'm afraid you're a liar. Hell, it's even nice and sourced on Wookieepedia, and made mention of by several users there and at TFN.
Or is it all one big conspiracy?


Right. defeating an army and ripping out the engines of a star destroyer are nothing. Nothing, no siree!

And Luke is able to absorb multiple blasts from an AT At...that aren't given to him by a bunch of insignificant weaklings.
Try again. Try harder

Originally posted by FootGarment


ROFL! You attempt to correct something I've said, and then use the exact word in the very same context two sentences later. That's hilarious.
Considering Bane was 'directing it' and I said twice he was, what was your point?

You mean the freely given energy in a ritual that cannot be replicated under normal circumstances? Just checking

The freely given energy. Where does it say it was all 'absorbed' now? Just that Bane directed it and was in a world of heat and fire

Irrelevant.
It is never done again. Suddenly, Bane's NOT so intelligent after all. ...he could have won Ruusan for them

Considering it took AAAAAALL the Brotherhood plus Bane to create a Force storm...and Palpatine can do it on his own..
Tsk tsk tsk


In Rule of 2? When, now?
And you can make your lightning not-lethal. Palpatine did it in ROTJ well enough. And Dark Empire

To create a force storm with all of the BoD, right? what Palp did on his own?

See above

show me his best feat.
Alone;

Or I'll show you Luke's uniting with Leia and baby Ani and the entire Force and channeling the entire lightside of bind Palpatine from his power, causing the force storm to redirect

sure. Whatever

Broken record syndrome.

Hah. Yes



Is Advent infallible? Is she a close personal interpreter of GL? If not, why are you bothering me with her opinion? At no point in that interview does GL clarify it in that way

translation: I can't
Why, Nebaris, it IS you!
I assume the bane hammer shall be dropped in short order



How about you leave and come back when we're ready to accept you again?


Ego is a real problem

This is where you're absolutely wrong, Nebaris (but that's nothing new, eh?). It's whatever I say. And I -- your esteemed lord, master, and God -- say that you've yet to prove a damn thing. You work on improving your logic, and I give you my solemn vow that I will use my "phenomenal, cosmic powers!!1!" to remove Bane's cock from your mouth and PoD/RoT from your ass.

You will be able to swallow and walk again in no time.

I don't think he'd want that, Gideon. That's against his religion.

The same way I don't like my blood taken out of my body, he doesn't like Bane's encrusted phallus and novel withdrawn from his various orifices.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
I don't think he'd want that, Gideon. That's against his religion.

The same way I don't like my blood taken out of my body, he doesn't like Bane's encrusted phallus and novel withdrawn from his various orifices.

Touche.

Hell, at the rate he's sucking, Bane's cock will likely dissolve soon, anyways.

You're right. Waste of time.

The Blaxican is always right. Always.

I don't think bane's phallus could ever dissolve, though.

HE MOVED A MOON WITH IT!!!!!11!!

Please. Bane's orbalisk layered penis is far too large for any human's mouth to contain. But really, is that the best you can come up with after getting curbstomped in... what is it now, our last ten consecutive debates? Get back to me when you lose that old age sense of wit and can actually manage to intellectually keep up with the Nebmeister. Until then, quit the bitching.

And yes, that's right, I'm talking to you Blaxican, what now?!

Originally posted by FootGarment


No, it was the non force sensitive minions of the BoD "whom were easily killed by children who swung lightsabers like monkeys." Know what you're talking about, moron. Read jedi vs sith moron. It says your wrong mr nebaris.


Originally posted by FootGarment

You've yet to support the idea that the BoD were in any way less powerful than an average order of force users, and still haven't managed to work out that the sheer number of force users would mean that the statement speaks volumes even if the order were a weak one. O rly? Remember the weakling who was sent to ruusan? Oh right that weakling was stated to be "among the strongest" in the order according to kasim and kopecz. Again, read jedi vs sith.

Originally posted by Sylar
Read jedi vs sith moron. It says your wrong mr nebaris.

You're blatantly only pretending to have read JvS, just like you pretend to watch Heroes. The comic shows or states no such thing.



"Weak" is a relative term. Bane labels him weak, but then again can only form comparisons between himself and the apprentices and Masters that he had met in the Academy. This says nothing about the personal level of power of the Order as a whole. It would be like Yoda labelling one of the low level Jedi Masters "weak." Being a Master, he would be "among" the strongest, yet by your logic, that would somehow detract from the level of power of the order as a whole. It doesn't. "Weak," as I said, is a relative term, and being weak in relation to a particular collective group within the order says nothing about the Order as a whole in comparison to other's.



Lol. You refer to PoD, and then say this. Are you high Kadesh?

Originally posted by FootGarment
Please. Bane's orbalisk layered penis is far too large for any human's mouth to contain. But really, is that the best you can come up with after getting curbstomped in... what is it now, our last ten consecutive debates? Get back to me when you lose that old age sense of wit and can actually manage to intellectually keep up with the Nebmeister. Until then, quit the bitching.

And yes, that's right, I'm talking to you Blaxican, what now?!

Well, I'm in the process of making a picture about you, if that counts.

Originally posted by FootGarment


You're blatantly only pretending to have read JvS, just like you pretend to watch Heroes. The comic shows or states no such thing. The thing is i HAVE read JVS, obviously nobody gives a shit about your opinions or your claims. Oh and i HAVE watched heroes, sylar losing his powers? season 2? 5 years gone?





Originally posted by FootGarment

"Weak" is a relative term. Bane labels him weak, but then again can only form comparisons between himself and the apprentices and Masters that he had met in the Academy. This says nothing about the personal level of power of the Order as a whole. It would be like Yoda labelling one of the low level Jedi Masters "weak." Being a Master, he would be "among" the strongest, yet by your logic, that would somehow detract from the level of power of the order as a whole. It doesn't. "Weak," as I said, is a relative term, and being weak in relation to a particular collective group within the order says nothing about the Order as a whole in comparison to other's. Your wrong, the narrator stated he is weak,not only bane, and that weakling according to kasim is "the strongest of the order sent to worlds like ruusan"

Have a happy banning sick child.



Lol. You refer to PoD, and then say this. Are you high Kadesh?

Originally posted by FootGarment
Please. Gideon's penis is far too large for any human's mouth to contain. But really, is that the best you can come up with after getting curbstomped in... what is it now, our last ten consecutive debates? Get back to me when you lose that old age sense of wit and can actually manage to intellectually keep up with the Almighty God (Gideon). Until then, quit the bitching.

And yes, that's right, I'm talking to you Nebaris, what now?!

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Read almost any book mentioning Sidious,

No. It's your job to provide your own proof, not mine.



Right, and you appear to have not grasped the fact that the word "powerful" is ambiguous and that narration isn't always presented from an omniscient perspective.



Right, apparently you're either an idiot, or have no clue what "proof" actually is, because telling me that a book says such a thing is not actually proving that the book says it. It's on you to provide a quote at the very least, and a page number is almost always necessary.

But, though it's really not on me to prove you wrong, I feel like dispelling the ridiculous idea that Sidious is factually stated as being the most powerful (in a combat sense) Sith Lord in this recent EU novel.

Here's the actual entire passage surrounding the quote you're referring to:

Vader could sense the hostility of some of the men behind Tarkin, but that was of no importance. Hostile words or actions he could and would deal with, but thoughts of the weak-minded were no threat.
Tarkin, oily and smooth as always, was a man who knew where his best interests lay, and as long as his own plans matched those of the Emperor, he was a useful tool. Which was good, because Vader would not hesitate to use that tool.

The Rebels were turning out to be more troublesome than many had expected. The Emperor had known it would be thus, of course; the resistance had not been a surprise to him. The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force. He was the most powerful Sith who had ever existed.

As would Vader be, someday.

But that was in the future. Now he had more mundane duties. There were problems with the construction of this station. When Vader left, those problems would be corrected. He would return as necessary to correct more troubles as they appeared, and he would also return at times when things were proceeding smoothly, just to remind Tarkin and his senior officers that the Emperor's eye was always watching them.
Always.

Now, as can be seen, the passage constantly refers to Vader's thoughts, feelings, and perceptions, which would make it very likely that the passage is indirectly voicing him. This idea is cemented with the sentence that follows directly from the one you've been referring to:

"As would Vader be, someday."

If the passage were really being spoken directly from an omniscient source, then we would be forced to subscribe to the idea that Vader -- at some point in time -- eventually did become the most powerful Sith Lord there's ever been, and managed to surpass Sidious, yet we know that never happened. In other words, the only way in which the sentence would make sense would be if it were coming from the perspective of a fallible source, and in this case, that fallible source quite clearly is Vader, as supported above, and further supported by the idea that he's shown to possess that belief (that he would oneday surpass Sidious) in numerous sources.

Not to mention, even if that were actually directly coming from an omniscient narrator (which it definitely isn't), the word "powerful" is ambiguous, and in this context, to assume that it refers to a personal level of combat adeptness is completely ridiculous. Refer to the sentence just before the one you've been referring to, where it's said that:

"The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force."

I doubt you even understand what that means, so I'll tell you; it means that every action that Palpatine took, and every goal he possessed, were all with the full interests of the dark side at heart. In other words, he was as dedicated towards it as one can get. That sense of dedication made him powerful, in the sense that he was willing to be patient where others wouldn't (waiting for decades until he could eradicate the Jedi and conquer most of the Galaxy for instance) and do things which he completely detested (such as his pleasantries with the Jedi, his most hated enemies).

So to recap, there's no way in which you can conclusively prove that the statement speaks in respect to battle prowess, and the context would make it appear that such an idea is certainly not the case.



As I said, I was going to, but your comment in the other thread was just too hurtful.

I'm afraid the ambiguity card has lost its luster.

foot garment why are you doing this? why do you think every one here is wrong? what make you think out all the people here and alll the debating they have done about star wars not as a group but as individuals about star wars make you think that you are right on everything?


If you have a question about some thing ask.if you think some one is wrong ask, how they are right, how does that make sense?
Until then no one give a flying fvck about your pesonal crusade!!!

Originally posted by Gideon
I'm afraid the ambiguity card has lost its luster.

I'm afraid that's not the only thing discrediting the argument, and I'm afraid failing to understand the concept of ambiguity makes you an idiot.

Originally posted by FootGarment
I'm afraid that's not the only thing discrediting the argument, and I'm afraid failing to understand the concept of ambiguity makes you an idiot.

What a beacon of wit. And you have the temerity to lecture others about it? How very desperate. Though twenty-one banned accounts does seem to hint at some severe psychological issues.

Sport.

I thought you'd default on some nice Ad Hominem rather than attempt to argue the point with me. Well at least you're finally realising that you can't quite compete with the NMan. I guess that's something. Now I'd suggest attempting to engage Kadesh or Darth Sexy in a debate, I mean everyone deserves to win once in a while eh, and it's not something that will happen if you continue this odd vendetta you appear to have against me. Publius is looking down on you, and he's not impressed.

Originally posted by Atticus
foot garment why are you doing this? why do you think every one here is wrong? what make you think out all the people here and alll the debating they have done about star wars not as a group but as individuals about star wars make you think that you are right on everything?


If you have a question about some thing ask.if you think some one is wrong ask, how they are right, how does that make sense?
Until then no one give a flying fvck about your pesonal crusade!!!

Firstly does Bane have his Orbalisks.
Secondly who the hell is dark bane

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Firstly does Bane have his Orbalisks.
Secondly who the hell is dark bane


1 fight where he does
1 fight where he doesnt


2 it was a typo but its still correct since the word darth means dark in dutch,

3 watch your mouth dude or youre getting the boot
off this forum

I feel that Neb's quote 'proving that Vader surpassed Palpatine' is misread. It seems more to be suggesting that Vader has the potential to become the greatest Sith Lord ever; as Vader's viewpoint is the viewpoint used, he does not forsee himself leaving the Sith.

I don't recall Vader ever becoming the most powerful Sith Lord. If he had, he would have done away with Palpatine and taken the mantle of Dark Lord of the Sith for himself, the title of Master.

But he hadn't, had he?

Originally posted by Captain REX
I feel that Neb's quote 'proving that Vader surpassed Palpatine' is misread. It seems more to be suggesting that Vader has the potential to become the greatest Sith Lord ever; as Vader's viewpoint is the viewpoint used, he does not forsee himself leaving the Sith.

I don't recall Vader ever becoming the most powerful Sith Lord. If he had, he would have done away with Palpatine and taken the mantle of Dark Lord of the Sith for himself, the title of Master.

But he hadn't, had he?

well palp broke his will at the end of rots so even if he was powerful enough, he wont rebel, but you mods just glance oover the profanity huh?

Originally posted by Captain REX
I feel that Neb's quote 'proving that Vader surpassed Palpatine' is misread. It seems more to be suggesting that Vader has the potential to become the greatest Sith Lord ever; as Vader's viewpoint is the viewpoint used, he does not forsee himself leaving the Sith.

I don't recall Vader ever becoming the most powerful Sith Lord. If he had, he would have done away with Palpatine and taken the mantle of Dark Lord of the Sith for himself, the title of Master.

But he hadn't, had he?

The misreading appears to have been on your part. Neb wasn't arguing that Vader had surpassed Palpatine. He was using the statement to support the idea that the short passage was coming from Vader's PoV rather than the omniscient narrator's. If the passage were coming from the omniscient narrator, the statement: "As would Vader be someday (the most powerful sith who had ever existed)" would mean that Vader would have had to eventually surpass Sidious and any Sith before him, which is factually not true. Meaning that the passage is definitely not coming from the omniscient narrator, rendering the quote that people have claimed makes Sidious the most powerful Sith ever - canonically - void.

Originally posted by MutantMessiah
The misreading appears to have been on your part. Neb wasn't arguing that Vader had surpassed Palpatine. He was using the statement to support the idea that the short passage was coming from Vader's PoV rather than the omniscient narrator's. If the passage were coming from the omniscient narrator, the statement: "As would Vader be someday (the most powerful sith who had ever existed)" would mean that Vader would have had to eventually surpass Sidious and any Sith before him, which is factually not true. Meaning that the passage is definitely not coming from the omniscient narrator, rendering the quote that people have claimed makes Sidious the most powerful Sith ever - canonically - void.

Why are you speaking in 3rd person NOobaris. Everybody knows its you so you look even more like an idiot.

ROFL!!! MAking that claim void? That is the dumbest thing you've ever said by far. Nobody even has to refute this piece of crap for it to be false. You lose again, tool.

1 Bane with Orbalisks wins
Just Bane losses

2 Interesting....

3 Sorry. It was a long day.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
1 Bane with Orbalisks wins
Just Bane losses

2 Interesting....

3 Sorry. It was a long day. Never heard of emerald lightning which instantly kills its victims?

No

Well luke has that attack.

usually i'd be up for bane, but... Luke is kick-ass! Luke could be having his afternoon tea in one hand, his saber in the other, sitting down and still kick Banes arse (and without spilling any either)

Someones just watched the Matrix

lol yeah, about 11:00 pm

The same thing remains: the Orbalisks.

not only do they stop lukes attacks but the give Bane strength and speed beyond even Jedi standards and beyond his already massive ones.
With then he's at least as fast, strong and Force powered as Luke and his protection would give him the slight edge.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
The same thing remains: the Orbalisks. They die when get hit with lightning and apparantly lukes lightning instantly kills its victims.Originally posted by Darth Exodus


not only do they stop lukes attacks but the give Bane strength and speed beyond even Jedi standards and beyond his already massive ones. Prove that orbalisks deflect and stop the force, find a source, quote it.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

With then he's at least as fast, strong and Force powered as Luke and his protection would give him the slight edge. Luke is far faster than bane seeing he could twirl as if he was holding 20 sabers.

Luke takes this all over the place

Emerald lightning strips bane of the orbalisks and then luke just kicks his family jewels into the next planet.

I totally believe that The godlike ultimate potential NJO luke totally goes against the entire moral that lucas was trying to acomplish with Star Wars. Luke was supposed to be a farmboy who overcame countless odds to redeem the bad guy, giving the moral that good triumphs over evil, (sappy huh?), however if luke was capable of becoming a god, it voids this moral as luke becomes no longer a farmboy but a being of infinite potential.

i've done an alternate poll with maul bane and tyranus, i think vs grand master luke and the result was he won there so this should be concluded

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
The same thing remains: the Orbalisks.


Laughable.



Oh. They do? The Vongs Vodun-Crab-Armor happens to be extremely resistant against lightsaber attacks and so are their amphistaffs. They possess superhuman strength and speed (at least on par with most Jedi). Doesn't stop Luke from trashing an entire army of them in the NJO series.



Lmao.

Luke by virtue simply stopped an attack that was powered by the combined force potential of more than 300 planets filled with Killiks, people that have "joined" them (among them some force users). Aside of that he's able to create loops in the force, which enable him to keep force effects up for an infinite amount of time - without even having to use his own power.

Bane is completely outclassed by Luke when it comes to force mastery. And speed / lightsaber combat? I can again only mention that Luke tooled an entire army of Yuuzhan Vong, an action during which he was perceived as swinging around 20 lightsabers at once and a maelstrom in the force (by Jacen and Jaina). Bane gets completely owned.

Not to mention that Luke can simply make himself invisible and completely unsenseable in the force (Falanassi ability - learned during the Black Fleet crisis), walk up to Bane and stab him.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Laughable.



Oh. They do? The Vongs Vodun-Crab-Armor happens to be extremely resistant against lightsaber attacks and so are their amphistaffs.

The orbalisk armour goes beyond simply being extremely resistant to lightsabers. They're completely immune to their effects, and are stated to possess only one weakness: lightning.



Where the hell did you get that idea from?



When low level combatants like Darth Maul can achieve a similar feat, I fail to see how this is supposed to make Luke that impressive. If anything, the fact that the Yuuzhan Vong aren't ranged combatants would undermine the feat, as Luke would only have had to face a few of them at any given time. Not to mention, he was force melded with the Solo twins at the time, where his abilities were being amplified.



Where exactly was it said that UnuThul was being powered by their combined force potential? We know he was being powered by them, but we know nothing of the exact degree to which he was.



Which he's never shown to be able to activate in a short amount of time. When he activated one to conceal Vader's fortress, it required almost all of his concentration to activate it.



IMHO, he does have Bane beat in that department, but outclassed? Bane, before refining his abilities for ten years, was already capable of directing an attack across an entire planet.

As for actual force strength, he possessed an abundance of it, far beyond the combined amount of the powerful BoD, which contained a legion of force users.



Really not that impressive, as I explained. Bane, on the other hand, was able to move so fast that time appeared to freeze for all the Force users around him (including Kas'im) and was able to curbstomp the mentioned Kas'im even when the Twi'Lek possessed an unfair advantage over Bane (he was familiar with Bane's personal style), and this was before refining his force and lightsaber abilities for ten years, and gaining the orbalisk armour.



The first bit's actually false, he wasn't perceived in such a way; it was stated that he might as well have been wielding twenty lightsabers, and again, he was in a force meld at the time.



No limits fallacy. Nowhere is it stated that he becomes completely concealed.

No.

Boooooriing. what a crappy idea for a thread... considering you NJO addicts take not into account what a contradiction in story "NJO LUKE" is, he wins. . . there is no point for even starting this thread....

(the contradiction in story being that Luke was supposed to be a farmboy rising against inconquerable odds to free the galaxy; giving the moral that good conquers evil.)

the concept of njo luke kind of ruins that moral and turns the conclusion of star wars into a humanistic "have enough potential and practice hard enough and you can be a god" theme.

Originally posted by E-Hotshot
The orbalisk armour goes beyond simply being extremely resistant to lightsabers. They're completely immune to their effects, and are stated to possess only one weakness: lightning.


It's a moot point really, Luke's more than capable of using lightning to a degree at which he can get past the orbalisks

Originally posted by E-Hotshot

Where the hell did you get that idea from?


Did you read the same novels as us? The Vong are easily able to keep up with Jedi empowering themselves with the force, at one point I remember a Vong fighting a trained Nohgri fighter (who are some of the deadliest fighters in the galaxy), the vong blocked a thrown knife, killed the nohgri and spun to face the rest of the group all before the knife hit the ground.

Hell, a fresh Kyp was unable to overcome a sick and dying slayer

Originally posted by E-Hotshot

When low level combatants like Darth Maul can achieve a similar feat, I fail to see how this is supposed to make Luke that impressive. If anything, the fact that the Yuuzhan Vong aren't ranged combatants would undermine the feat, as Luke would only have had to face a few of them at any given time. Not to mention, he was force melded with the Solo twins at the time, where his abilities were being amplified.


yes, because the Vong and black sun are the same thing

Where do they mention the meld, and even if they were how does the meld empower him? Most melds just seem to help a group work better together as a group, which wouldn't matter much in this case as it was Luke alone tearing his way through the vong while the kids were busy deflecting what got past him.

Originally posted by E-Hotshot

Where exactly was it said that UnuThul was being powered by their combined force potential? We know he was being powered by them, but we know nothing of the exact degree to which he was.


I seem to recall the quote being something like the "combined power of the hive", but I can't say for sure, I was never a fan of those novels anyway.

Originally posted by E-Hotshot

Which he's never shown to be able to activate in a short amount of time. When he activated one to conceal Vader's fortress, it required almost all of his concentration to activate it.


That was on pretty large scale however, he wouldn't need to use something like that in a fight.

Originally posted by E-Hotshot

IMHO, he does have Bane beat in that department, but outclassed? Bane, before refining his abilities for ten years, was already capable of directing an attack across an entire planet.


So? It was a ritual, not like he's actually generated the force at a global scale on his own, Like Luke has. Plus, didn't Dorsk-81 perform something similar, and I'd be willing to bet that Bane>>Dorsk, so I don't really see how redirecting others energies is really that great (to be fair to everyone here, Dorsk didn't survive after using the technique)

Originally posted by E-Hotshot

As for actual force strength, he possessed an abundance of it, far beyond the combined amount of the powerful BoD, which contained a legion of force users.


Unless you're suggesting Bane's force strength>lukes, this has no point.

Originally posted by E-Hotshot

Really not that impressive, as I explained. Bane, on the other hand, was able to move so fast that time appeared to freeze for all the Force users around him (including Kas'im) and was able to curbstomp the mentioned Kas'im even when the Twi'Lek possessed an unfair advantage over Bane (he was familiar with Bane's personal style), and this was before refining his force and lightsaber abilities for ten years, and gaining the orbalisk armour.


So you have one instance of Bane utilizing a sudden powerful burst of speed, where as we've got a number of different quotes supporting Luke's speed. What's more, that quote it hardly conclusive, most of the people in the room were apprentices, the one person of note, Kas'im, may not even been included in the statement considering that when the two fight later on, Kas'im seems to have no problem keeping up with Bane, quite the contrary, Kas'im nearly pulls a win out. And when was he "curbstomping" Kas'im? When he was using a style that Bane had gone out of his way to memorize? As soon as he pulled out the two blade style he had Bane on the run.

Originally posted by E-Hotshot

The first bit's actually false, he wasn't perceived in such a way; it was stated that he might as well have been wielding twenty lightsabers, and again, he was in a force meld at the time.


once again, where does this meld bit come from and how does it contribute to luke, and why is "it might as well have been twenty" different then it looked like twenty? I don't understand what the difference is.

loads of crap piled upon this... the bane fanboys wont let it go that the enormously overpowered Luke would kill the enormously undercelebrated Bane.

Emeral Lightning... ripping the engines out of star destroyers... being unmoveable by even a black hole (this is bogus as black holes SUCK LIGHT IN) and if the legend of Darth Plageus is true, then Luke thie powerful, would have been able to influence the midichlorions to keep the ones he loves..... From Dying...

This would probably mean himself too, if he was supposedly this powerful..

grand master luke? wtf is this? a shriners convention? use "NJO" please.

Bane dies... get over it.

Try not to be fooled.



Perhaps the most thin and awe-inspiringly ridiculous claims ever made, Nebaris is unable to: a.) substantiate what the "Sith Chosen One" is, b.) prove that Bane is the "Sith Chosen One", c.) prove that it means jack.

I read somewhere, a long time ago that the jedi chosen one and the sith chosen one were the same: Darth Vader.

but i could be badly mistaken

Originally posted by Spartan 063
I read somewhere, a long time ago that the jedi chosen one and the sith chosen one were the same: Darth Vader.

but i could be badly mistaken

There is only one Chosen One and it is Anakin Skywalker, conceived by the Force (or the Force via Darth Plagueis -- or, for that matter -- Darth Plagueis via the Force) with the highest midichlorian count (and therefore potential) ever.

wait... anakin is plageus's son? care to elaborate?

btw people, dont be foolled NJO luke takes this with a half that absorbs maybe half his energy... a skilled debator can whip your thoughts around and make you look stupid no matter what you say.

and yes... do tell about anakin being plageous's son...

anikan is the result of darth plagueis creating life using the force

Its also possible the Sidious created Anakin, he did say that Plageuis though him everything he knew. Unless I'm mistaken, its never been confirmed which of these Sith made Anakin.

Originally posted by MadMel
anikan is the result of darth plagueis creating life using the force

According to the New Essential Chronology, yes.

Originally posted by Gideon
According to the New Essential Chronology, yes.


Didn't GL state that it was either or and that it was up to the fans to decide and he was going to leave it at that?

I think that luke would beat darth bane, i have read path of destruction, and bane hadnt made any gret feats. Luke has instakill, defaeted caedus, and has electric judgment! starwars

luke rocks, sorry for double posting

Bane wins.

Try again Noobaris. Bane gets pwned badly.. And Anakin's birth is unknown regardless of the NEC. George Lucas specifically said that question will be left unanswered.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Try again Noobaris. Bane gets pwned badly.. And Anakin's birth is unknown regardless of the NEC. George Lucas specifically said that question will be left unanswered.

Left to be unanswered by him or his movies. Who's to say that something else won't give the details of it, which we can all believe until GL says no, and then we have to OF COURSE take a statement of a single person over a published work of literature.

Note: Oh, God. Nebaris is back again.

Note #2: Come to think of it, what was Nebaris' original username and reason for banning?

Note #3: And how did we figure out his name was Nebaris?

Note #4: And is Nebaris his first or last name?

I'm confused.

And as for the thread, Luke pwns Bane.

Note #5: And I'm also sorry for deriding GL, which I know nobody likes, since everyone has to worship him.

um.. i thought this dumb thread was dead, totally established that luke wins.

is that the noobaris you guys cant stop talking about?

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
um.. i thought this dumb thread was dead, totally established that luke wins.

is that the noobaris you guys cant stop talking about?

It was dead until skywalker833 brought it back up.

And to the best of my knowledge Nebaris/Noobaris is currently the member IKP.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Try again Noobaris. Bane gets pwned badly..

Originally posted by caedusrulesall
And as for the thread, Luke pwns Bane.

Provide an argument, or go home.

Force Mastery: Bane displays the ability to direct a lightning attack across an entire planet (this was PoD Bane, with only a few years of training, who then went on to refine his abilities for an entire decade), and use his powers on the sub-atomic level (that was his Ro2 self).

Force Power: Bane displays the strength to absorb a level of energy that was stated to have been able to destroy the entire planet of Ruusan, and contain it rather than get torn apart by it. His power is also stated to be far greater than that of the entire BoD, a force strong legion of Force users.

Force Knowledge: He possesses the sources of knowledge of three great Lords of the Sith: Darth Revan, Freedon Nadd, and Belia Darzu, having studied extensively the knowledge bases of the first two.

Overall Lightsaber Ability: On equal footing with Kas'im, and before receiving the benefits of the orbalisk armour, he was able to completely dominate the battle, and this was against a foe that had mastered and spent decades perfecting every single form of the lightsaber, was extremely physically conditioned, and was strong enough in the Force that he was able to defend against an attack that would have instantly decimated his entire body. He was stated by the omniscient narrator to be the greatest swordsman of his age, and possibly the greatest there had ever been up until his time.

Speed in Combat: His displays of speed in the middle of combat are completely unparalleled, where he's been described to move far too quickly for powerful Force users (the likes of Kas'im) to see, and where he's been described to fight so quickly that his lightsaber appeared to be everywhere at once (from the perspective of someone as powerful as Darth Zannah).

Physical conditioning: Bane was described as a "mountain of muscle," and stood 2 metres tall.

Orbalisk armour: The orbalisks cover his entire body, with the exception of his head, and are immune to almost any type of physical damage there is (with lightning stated to be the only weakness), and enhance Bane's physical capabilities (via adrenaline) and strength in the Force (via darkside energies) to substantial degrees. In lightsaber combat, this enables him to focus nearly completely on offence without having to sacrifice defence, use his body to block attacks, and throw melee attacks without having to worry about his limbs being sliced off, making him a far more effective, and alien fighter.

Intelligence: Bane is consistently displayed to be a smart fighter, where he's shown to use his surrounding to his advantage, and make full use of the advantages he has over his opponents. Outside of combat, he's described as being a genius, and visionary, and his learning rate is shown to be more extreme than that of any other (fully mastering force lightning in under an hour for instance). Aside from all of that, his prowess in manipulation is described as being pretty phenomenal, similar to the likes of Darth Sidious and Darth Traya, as can be seen here:

Bane was a visionary, able to see far into the future. He understood how to exploit the weaknesses and vulnerabilities of the Republic. he knew how to draw the eyes of the Jedi away from the dark side, while at the same time leading them down the first steps that would end in their complete annihilation. He could manipulate people, organisations, and governments, planting seeds that would lay dormant for years--even decades--before they burst forth. - Ro2, PG 288.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

To recap, he's displayed the ability to defend against a planetary level of power, and his control of his powers is so great that he can use them with a planetary level scale, or alternatively a sub-atomic level scale. He was already an extremely capable lightsaber wielder even before obtaining the orbalisk armour, and with it, he's pretty much unstoppable. He's physically as impressive as it gets, and one of the more intelligent characters there's shown to be in SW Canon. He excels in all areas, and based on what we know, Luke doesn't possess a single advantage over him, and is far from as complete a combatant as Bane is.

So... as I said, Bane wins this one.

Originally posted by IKP
Provide an argument, or go home.

Force Mastery: Bane displays the ability to direct a lightning attack across an entire planet (this was PoD Bane, with only a few years of training, who then went on to refine his abilities for an entire decade), and use his powers on the sub-atomic level (that was his Ro2 self).

Force Power: Bane displays the strength to absorb a level of energy that was stated to have been able to destroy the entire planet of Ruusan, and contain it rather than get torn apart by it. His power is also stated to be far greater than that of the entire BoD, a force strong legion of Force users.

Force Knowledge: He possesses the sources of knowledge of three great Lords of the Sith: Darth Revan, Freedon Nadd, and Belia Darzu, having studied extensively the knowledge bases of the first two.

Overall Lightsaber Ability: On equal footing with Kas'im, and before receiving the benefits of the orbalisk armour, he was able to completely dominate the battle, and this was against a foe that had mastered and spent decades perfecting every single form of the lightsaber, was extremely physically conditioned, and was strong enough in the Force that he was able to defend against an attack that would have instantly decimated his entire body. He was stated by the omniscient narrator to be the greatest swordsman of his age, and possibly the greatest there had ever been up until his time.

Speed in Combat: His displays of speed in the middle of combat are completely unparalleled, where he's been described to move far too quickly for powerful Force users (the likes of Kas'im) to see, and where he's been described to fight so quickly that his lightsaber appeared to be everywhere at once (from the perspective of someone as powerful as Darth Zannah).

Physical conditioning: Bane was described as a "mountain of muscle," and stood 2 metres tall.

Orbalisk armour: The orbalisks cover his entire body, with the exception of his head, and are immune to almost any type of physical damage there is (with lightning stated to be the only weakness), and enhance Bane's physical capabilities (via adrenaline) and strength in the Force (via darkside energies) to substantial degrees. In lightsaber combat, this enables him to focus nearly completely on offence without having to sacrifice defence, use his body to block attacks, and throw melee attacks without having to worry about his limbs being sliced off, making him a far more effective, and alien fighter.

Intelligence: Bane is consistently displayed to be a smart fighter, where he's shown to use his surrounding to his advantage, and make full use of the advantages he has over his opponents. Outside of combat, he's described as being a genius, and visionary, and his learning rate is shown to be more extreme than that of any other (fully mastering force lightning in under an hour for instance). Aside from all of that, his prowess in manipulation is described as being pretty phenomenal, similar to the likes of Darth Sidious and Darth Traya, as can be seen here:

Bane was a visionary, able to see far into the future. He understood how to exploit the weaknesses and vulnerabilities of the Republic. he knew how to draw the eyes of the Jedi away from the dark side, while at the same time leading them down the first steps that would end in their complete annihilation. He could manipulate people, organisations, and governments, planting seeds that would lay dormant for years--even decades--before they burst forth. - Ro2, PG 288.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

To recap, he's displayed the ability to defend against a planetary level of power, and his control of his powers is so great that he can use them with a planetary level scale, or alternatively a sub-atomic level scale. He was already an extremely capable lightsaber wielder even before obtaining the orbalisk armour, and with it, he's pretty much unstoppable. He's physically as impressive as it gets, and one of the more intelligent characters there's shown to be in SW Canon. He excels in all areas, and based on what we know, Luke doesn't possess a single advantage over him, and is far from as complete a combatant as Bane is.

So... as I said, Bane wins this one.

That's the irony here. I don't need to provide an argument against an idiot who still hasn't learned to debate, and who has been banned 38+ times. You rehash all the same old defeated arguments, so you being pwned is a foregone conclusion, no debating necessary..

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
That's the irony here. I don't need to provide an argument against an idiot who still hasn't learned to debate, and who has been banned 38+ times. You rehash all the same old defeated arguments, so you being pwned is a foregone conclusion, no debating necessary..

Seconded.

And Noobaris, if you need your memory refreshed on the Force God, Lord Luke Skywalker, please read one of the fine New Jedi Order or Dark Nest novels. Thank you.

P.S. Or you can get the hell off of KMC and get yourself a life. In fact, do both.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
That's the irony here. I don't need to provide an argument against an idiot who still hasn't learned to debate, and who has been banned 38+ times. You rehash all the same old defeated arguments, so you being pwned is a foregone conclusion, no debating necessary..

Dave, in a world where Ad Hominem wasn't a logical fallacy, a person wasn't required to provide proof for their claims, and women found men with bingo wings attractive, you truly would be a winner, but in the real world, you're quite possibly the biggest loser there is on the internet, so as I said, go home.

Originally posted by IKP
Dave, in a world where Ad Hominem wasn't a logical fallacy, a person wasn't required to provide proof for their claims, and women found men with bingo wings attractive, you truly would be a winner, but in the real world, you're quite possibly the biggest loser there is on the internet, so as I said, go home.


Hmm biggest loser. One who can't debate, one who can't win debates, one who gets banned 38+ times to come back and get pwned some more. Thanks again for being the epitome of pitiful.

It has been been a while since Nebaris last posted a big pro Bane argument like that.

Originally posted by IKP
Provide an argument, or go home.

Force Mastery: Bane displays the ability to direct a lightning attack across an entire planet (this was PoD Bane, with only a few years of training, who then went on to refine his abilities for an entire decade), and use his powers on the sub-atomic level (that was his Ro2 self).

Force Power: Bane displays the strength to absorb a level of energy that was stated to have been able to destroy the entire planet of Ruusan, and contain it rather than get torn apart by it. His power is also stated to be far greater than that of the entire BoD, a force strong legion of Force users.

Force Knowledge: He possesses the sources of knowledge of three great Lords of the Sith: Darth Revan, Freedon Nadd, and Belia Darzu, having studied extensively the knowledge bases of the first two.

Overall Lightsaber Ability: On equal footing with Kas'im, and before receiving the benefits of the orbalisk armour, he was able to completely dominate the battle, and this was against a foe that had mastered and spent decades perfecting every single form of the lightsaber, was extremely physically conditioned, and was strong enough in the Force that he was able to defend against an attack that would have instantly decimated his entire body. He was stated by the omniscient narrator to be the greatest swordsman of his age, and possibly the greatest there had ever been up until his time.

Speed in Combat: His displays of speed in the middle of combat are completely unparalleled, where he's been described to move far too quickly for powerful Force users (the likes of Kas'im) to see, and where he's been described to fight so quickly that his lightsaber appeared to be everywhere at once (from the perspective of someone as powerful as Darth Zannah).

Physical conditioning: Bane was described as a "mountain of muscle," and stood 2 metres tall.

Orbalisk armour: The orbalisks cover his entire body, with the exception of his head, and are immune to almost any type of physical damage there is (with lightning stated to be the only weakness), and enhance Bane's physical capabilities (via adrenaline) and strength in the Force (via darkside energies) to substantial degrees. In lightsaber combat, this enables him to focus nearly completely on offence without having to sacrifice defence, use his body to block attacks, and throw melee attacks without having to worry about his limbs being sliced off, making him a far more effective, and alien fighter.

Intelligence: Bane is consistently displayed to be a smart fighter, where he's shown to use his surrounding to his advantage, and make full use of the advantages he has over his opponents. Outside of combat, he's described as being a genius, and visionary, and his learning rate is shown to be more extreme than that of any other (fully mastering force lightning in under an hour for instance). Aside from all of that, his prowess in manipulation is described as being pretty phenomenal, similar to the likes of Darth Sidious and Darth Traya, as can be seen here:

Bane was a visionary, able to see far into the future. He understood how to exploit the weaknesses and vulnerabilities of the Republic. he knew how to draw the eyes of the Jedi away from the dark side, while at the same time leading them down the first steps that would end in their complete annihilation. He could manipulate people, organisations, and governments, planting seeds that would lay dormant for years--even decades--before they burst forth. - Ro2, PG 288.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

To recap, he's displayed the ability to defend against a planetary level of power, and his control of his powers is so great that he can use them with a planetary level scale, or alternatively a sub-atomic level scale. He was already an extremely capable lightsaber wielder even before obtaining the orbalisk armour, and with it, he's pretty much unstoppable. He's physically as impressive as it gets, and one of the more intelligent characters there's shown to be in SW Canon. He excels in all areas, and based on what we know, Luke doesn't possess a single advantage over him, and is far from as complete a combatant as Bane is.

So... as I said, Bane wins this one.

none of us doubts banes power or magnetism towards fanboys. as for the whole lightning encompassing a whole planet, i think that was when he had all of his sith lords together and their minds were linked so that all of their power was ravaging the planet.

the point is not how powerful bane is at this point, but how powerful luke is. luke is a god at this point in time, more powerful then anyone in history. as much as i dont like it, this is the eu so this is cannon

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
none of us doubts banes power or magnetism towards fanboys. as for the whole lightning encompassing a whole planet, i think that was when he had all of his sith lords together and their minds were linked so that all of their power was ravaging the planet.

Which I never denied, and highly irrelevant to my argument, given that though they were giving their power to Bane, he still needed the ability to absorb it ("it" being lightning) in the first place, and subsequently contain it and redirect it. His displays, in respect to the above three performances, were all achieved through his own merits, and that was the exact point I was making. I was never arguing that he was single-handedly ravaging the entire planet, or that he possessed that kind of ability at that point, but irregardless of all of that, his displays of ability during the ritual were absolutely titanic, and beyond anything shown by Luke at this point in time.



Which is all obvious bullsh1t, given that he's already been surpassed by people in his very era (UnuThul, Lord Nyax, and Zonama Sekot), and hasn't a single showing that tops Darth Bane's, in any area. Luke simply possesses no advantage over the guy (with his force power, mastery, and lightsaber ability perhaps approaching the Sith Lord's), whereas Bane possesses some pretty considerable ones over the Jedi Master (intelligence, physical capabilities, force knowledge, and the orbalisk armour to name a few). Luke's outmatched, bottom line. I'd argue that even the considerably weaker PoD Bane could give him a good fight; Ro2 Bane wins, no question. His combat prowess is - at the very least - on par with Luke's, and he's vastly more intelligent, and receives the benefits of the orbalisk armour.

Originally posted by IKP
Which I never denied, and highly irrelevant to my argument, given that though they were giving their power to Bane, he still needed the ability to absorb it ("it" being lightning) in the first place, and subsequently contain it and redirect it. His displays, in respect to the above three performances, were all achieved through his own merits, and that was the exact point I was making. I was never arguing that he was single-handedly ravaging the entire planet, or that he possessed that kind of ability at that point, but irregardless of all of that, his displays of ability during the ritual were absolutely titanic, and beyond anything shown by Luke at this point in time.



Which is all obvious bullsh1t, given that he's already been surpassed by people in his very era (UnuThul, Lord Nyax, and Zonama Sekot), and hasn't a single showing that tops Darth Bane's, in any area. Luke simply possesses no advantage over the guy (with his force power, mastery, and lightsaber ability perhaps approaching the Sith Lord's), whereas Bane possesses some pretty considerable ones over the Jedi Master (intelligence, physical capabilities, force knowledge, and the orbalisk armour to name a few). Luke's outmatched, bottom line. I'd argue that even the considerably weaker PoD Bane could give him a good fight; Ro2 Bane wins, no question. His combat prowess is - at the very least - on par with Luke's, and he's vastly more intelligent, and receives the benefits of the orbalisk armour.

No

Originally posted by IKP
Which I never denied, and highly irrelevant to my argument, given that though they were giving their power to Bane, he still needed the ability to absorb it ("it" being lightning) in the first place, and subsequently contain it and redirect it. His displays, in respect to the above three performances, were all achieved through his own merits, and that was the exact point I was making. I was never arguing that he was single-handedly ravaging the entire planet, or that he possessed that kind of ability at that point, but irregardless of all of that, his displays of ability during the ritual were absolutely titanic, and beyond anything shown by Luke at this point in time.
Despite how Luke has torn engines from spaceships? Please.
Bane needed the entire BoD for that ritual. Typical non sequitor


Lie. Luke beat the former handily, the second, and when did Zonama 'surpass' him?

When Bane hacks through an entire army get back to me. Oh, waaaait, poor Bane nearly got killed by eight non force sensitives

Intelligence? Where does Bane display this over Luke? Physical capabilities? So he's moved fast enough to appear to wield 20 sabers at once? Force knowledge? As opposed to the guy who studied from the Tedryn Holocron, Arca Jeth's Holocron, Ood's holocron and dozens of other lost artifacts, including Palpatine's personal Sith stash, including the Telos holocron? Haha...
Orbalisks, OH NOES! Oh, wait...Emerald lightning. Oops!

Poor Baney's head is uncovered for starters. Secondly, Emerald lightning, fight over, sorry.

Firstly Lightsnake, why the hell are you replying to this and not the original argument I made? Is it, perhaps, because the overwhelming evidence originally provided makes it too hard for you to make a proper case for Luke, and so you feel the need to nitpick at a post that was in reply to someone else, in the hopes of having the original argument buried behind a discussion taken completely out of context? Well, if that is the plan, it's not going to work, and I'm going to go out of my way to include the original argument at the end of my every rebuttal until you respond to it.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Despite how Luke has torn engines from spaceships? Please.

This isn't even worth a reply. I post planetary level force displays, and this is what you come up with to counter? You're a joke. As if ripping engines out of space ships even somehow approaches the titanic level of ability displayed by Bane during the ritual.



Irrelevant misdirection, logical fallacy.

The parts of the ritual that I was describing were all achieved by Bane through his own merits. The power and mastery he displayed in absorbing and containing the lightning that the BoD generated, and the control he displayed in redirecting it were all achieved through his own ability. Sure, the BoD did give him their power to start off with, but this in no way detracts from the shown ability in receiving the power, containing it, and redirecting it, which was my exact point. He possesses that level of ability without the BoD.



No, it's not a non sequitur, and perhaps when you learn how to properly spell and spot logical fallacies, people will take you seriously when you call them out (refer to the above if you wish to know how the pros do it). I didn't make a single false conclusion in my entire argument.



Don't even go there Liarsnake, you're pretty much notorious on here for making sh1t up, on the constant.

1. Raynar Thul was able to completely take control of DN Luke's mind, indicating that his force abilities were well in excess of Skywalker's own. Luke was only able to compete with him after Raynar's power source (the Killik Colony) had been severely diminished. It's pretty clear that Luke was completely outclassed here.

2. Lord Nyax was able to completely mind dominate NJO Luke, as well as Mara Jade and Tahiri, all at the same time. It took all three of them to defeat him in combat, and even then, he was largely dominant, only being defeated after a surprise attack to his back by Tahiri.

3. When did Zonama 'surpass' him? Oh I don't know Lightsnake, could it have perhaps been ever since the living planet was able to use her force powers to knock NJO Luke and his entire Jedi party unconscious in the blink of an eye? No...



Wonderful logic Lightsnake, truly. So because Luke has done X and Bane hasn't, he's somehow undeniably better? Perhaps if you could actually manage to substantiate how the feat makes Luke more powerful than Bane, this might actually be logically acceptable, but you haven't, and as it stand, you're committing an argument from personal belief.

1. Luke was receiving the benefits of being in a powerful force meld with Jacen and Jaina at the time he performed mentioned feat, which was enhancing his awareness and overall ability by enormous degrees.

2. The Yuuzhan Vong's main advantage - the very attribute that made them so effective against Jedi, had been negated by the fact that Luke Skywalker was able to sense them in the Force at the time, largely lessening their ability in combat.

3. In a setting where Jedi can move at invisible speeds, where GL labels the average Jedi a "one-man-army," and low tier Sith like Darth Maul can single-handedly destroy the most powerful crime syndicate in the Galaxy, I fail to see the real impressiveness behind defeating armies of non force sensitives.

4. Either way, you've failed to substantiate your point, relying solely on your opinion, which is what you'd call the argument from personal incredulity fallacy.



1. Put down the beer.

2. Please tell me what the hell you're talking about.



Originally posted by IKP
Intelligence: Bane is consistently displayed to be a smart fighter, where he's shown to use his surrounding to his advantage, and make full use of the advantages he has over his opponents. Outside of combat, he's described as being a genius, and visionary, and his learning rate is shown to be more extreme than that of any other (fully mastering force lightning in under an hour for instance). Aside from all of that, his prowess in manipulation is described as being pretty phenomenal, similar to the likes of Darth Sidious and Darth Traya, as can be seen here:

Bane was a visionary, able to see far into the future. He understood how to exploit the weaknesses and vulnerabilities of the Republic. he knew how to draw the eyes of the Jedi away from the dark side, while at the same time leading them down the first steps that would end in their complete annihilation. He could manipulate people, organisations, and governments, planting seeds that would lay dormant for years--even decades--before they burst forth. - Ro2, PG 288.



1. You're committing a fallacy of division, listing a feat of speed, which would draw on both Luke's force mastery and physical capabilities, and attributing the impressiveness behind the entire feat to one of its parts (physical capabilities). As I said, you're ridiculous.

2. It was actually "fast enough he may as well have been wielding twenty sabers." Even if the statement wasn't subject to hyperbole, all it really equates to is that the narrator considered Luke's efficiency in using his lightsaber about twenty times that of an unknown measuring device. Now substantiate this, as all you're doing is -- again -- arguing from personal incredulity. I fail to see how it compares to moving at speeds completely invisible to the eyes of powerful Force users, moving so fast that time appeared to have frozen.

3. Again, this was achieved through a powerful force meld with Jacen and Jaina, where his abilities were being enhance by substantial degrees.



Your unorganised, unsubstantiated, unsourced, and mad ramblings might be okay for some, but not for me. Try structuring your point properly, and then give me some sources (with page numbers and quotes), and substantiate how this puts his knowledge above Bane's.



Emerald lightning, OH NOES! Oh wait...lightsaber + Force shield + any other defence Bane might have learnt from from his vast source of Force knowledge. WHOOPS, YOU LOSE, SORRY!



Well at least now I know who to come to when I want my arguements nitpicked at.

Originally posted by IKP
Orbalisk armour: The orbalisks cover his entire body, with the exception of his head, and are immune to almost any type of physical damage there is (with lightning stated to be the only weakness), and enhance Bane's physical capabilities (via adrenaline) and strength in the Force (via darkside energies) to substantial degrees. In lightsaber combat, this enables him to focus nearly completely on offence without having to sacrifice defence, use his body to block attacks, and throw melee attacks without having to worry about his limbs being sliced off, making him a far more effective, and alien fighter.

As can be seen, a relatively insignificant detraction, and also a one sided assessment fallacy.



We all know you're not exactly the man when it comes to evaluating your points, Lightsnake, but this is absolutely ridiculous.

a) Prove that emerald lightning doesn't work exclusively on Yuuzhan Vong.

b) Prove that Bane's phenomenal force defence wouldn't prevent the lightning from hitting the orbalisks in the first place.

Seeing as how Lightsnake feels the need to constantly draw arguments away from what they're originally intended to prove:

I'll chalk this one up to BS, then.
Thanks, Neb

In fact, Nebaris? I'm adding you to my ignore list until you grow the hell up.
Stop trolling this place. It's not amusing, it really isn't.

You claim that the perspective of Luke appearing to use twenty lightsabers at once is subject to hyperbole, but the statement of Bane's blade appearing to be "everywhere at once" isn't?

Single standards only, please.

The rest of the fight isn't the point, Bane lost there becuase he didn't know how to fight someone with two lightsaber's not becuase of Kas'ims speed or skill. And if you read the last line it actually says:

"You should have finished me when you had the chance,"

- indicating that Bane could have finished him before he got out the twin bladesand that during the fight 'The Blademaster became desperate. Leaping, spinning, ducking, rolling: he was wild and reckless in his retreat, seeking now only to escape with his life.'
This is futher supported with: 'The outcome was inevitable. Bane was simply too strong in the Force. Only some unexpected maneuver could save Kas'im, but they had fought too many times in the past for him to surprise Bane now. Over the course of his training Bane had seen every possible sequence, series, move, and trick with the double-bladed lightsaber, and he knew how to counter and nullify them all.' So Bane WAS beating him before then and would have won if he hadn't have fallen for the old Sith flaw of gloating too much

And I don't appreciate being called a 'sock'. What does that actually mean by the way? That I smell? That's pretty lame.

Originally posted by Gideon
You claim that the perspective of Luke appearing to use twenty lightsabers at once is subject to hyperbole, but the statement of Bane's blade appearing to be "everywhere at once" isn't?

Single standards only, please.

Gideon, we all know you absolutely love to nitpick (see Janus), but if you're going to go out of your way to butt in on a discussion that you're not a part of, to do it, at least do it right.

1. I never denied the fact that Bane's blade appearing to be everywhere at once was subject to hyperbole.

2. I never claimed that absolutely no value could be gauged from such quotes (which is why I'd still bring them up in different arguments).

3. The difference between me and Lightsnake, is that I wasn't the one trying to -- undoubtedly -- place a hyperbolic statement over a factual one (I think you'll notice that the exact quote I was referencing at the time, was that Bane was able to move faster than the eyes of powerful force users to see, which isn't a hyperbolic statement, but a factual one) in terms of the quality they speak for. That was all I was pointing out to Lightsnake - that it was a factor that he wasn't taking into account.

So no, not a single double standard there, I think you'll find; those would be what you go by when you'll act as if Palpatine's lack of recent training with a lightsaber (and by extension, lack of technical prowess with the weapon) doesn't really make too much of a difference to his overall ability, and then support you claim with a bunch of his showings with a lightsaber that were achieved primarily through his force ability, yet when it comes to force demigods such as Nihilus and Sion, you'll treat their lack of prowess (and even then, you'll be relying on absence of proof) as the big be all end all, and ignoring that the latter of the KotOR demigods has Palpatine's best showing beaten by a mile.

Now really Gideon, I can understand the need you appear to possess to constantly try to counter as much of my points as you can (which, like in this thread, usually only equates to a single line per argument), I would quite possibly be like that as well if someone had been dismantling my almost every argument, but you're coming off as a tad bit desperate, and obsessive (call the cops kind of obsessive), and you're losing on the logic front every single time. I'd suggest you put an end to this odd, and quite frankly creepy vendetta you appear to have against me, and stick to what you do best: writing poetry.

Originally posted by IKP
Gideon, we all know you absolutely love to nitpick (see Janus), but if you're going to go out of your way to butt in on a discussion that you're not a part of, to do it, at least do it right.

1. I never denied the fact that Bane's blade appearing to be everywhere at once was subject to hyperbole.

2. I never claimed that absolutely no value could be gauged from such quotes (which is why I'd still bring them up in different arguments).

3. The difference between me and Lightsnake, is that I wasn't the one trying to -- undoubtedly -- place a hyperbolic statement over a factual one (I think you'll notice that the exact quote I was referencing at the time, was that Bane was able to move faster than the eyes of powerful force users to see, which isn't a hyperbolic statement, but a factual one) in terms of the quality they speak for. That was all I was pointing out to Lightsnake - that it was a factor that he wasn't taking into account.

So no, not a single double standard there, I think you'll find; those would be what you go by when you'll act as if Palpatine's lack of recent training with a lightsaber (and by extension, lack of technical prowess with the weapon) doesn't really make too much of a difference to his overall ability, and then support you claim with a bunch of his showings with a lightsaber that were achieved primarily through his force ability, yet when it comes to force demigods such as Nihilus and Sion, you'll treat their lack of prowess (and even then, you'll be relying on absence of proof) as the big be all end all, and ignoring that the latter of the KotOR demigods has Palpatine's best showing beaten by a mile.

Now really Gideon, I can understand the need you appear to possess to constantly try to counter as much of my points as you can (which, like in this thread, usually only equates to a single line per argument), I would quite possibly be like that as well if someone had been dismantling my almost every argument, but you're coming off as a tad bit desperate, and obsessive (call the cops kind of obsessive), and you're losing on the logic front every single time. I'd suggest you put an end to this odd, and quite frankly creepy vendetta you appear to have against me, and stick to what you do best: writing poetry.
As far as everybody on this forum who is in touch with reality is concerned, Escape has wtfpwned every one of your arguments. But you, being the antisocial buffoon that you are, continue to come back after almost 40 bans and still enjoy getting wtfpwned. Sucks to be you man.. It really does.

Originally posted by IKP
Gideon, we all know you absolutely love to nitpick (see Janus), but if you're going to go out of your way to butt in on a discussion that you're not a part of, to do it, at least do it right.

1. I never denied the fact that Bane's blade appearing to be everywhere at once was subject to hyperbole.

2. I never claimed that absolutely no value could be gauged from such quotes (which is why I'd still bring them up in different arguments).

3. The difference between me and Lightsnake, is that I wasn't the one trying to -- undoubtedly -- place a hyperbolic statement over a factual one (I think you'll notice that the exact quote I was referencing at the time, was that Bane was able to move faster than the eyes of powerful force users to see, which isn't a hyperbolic statement, but a factual one) in terms of the quality they speak for. That was all I was pointing out to Lightsnake - that it was a factor that he wasn't taking into account.

So no, not a single double standard there, I think you'll find; those would be what you go by when you'll act as if Palpatine's lack of recent training with a lightsaber (and by extension, lack of technical prowess with the weapon) doesn't really make too much of a difference to his overall ability, and then support you claim with a bunch of his showings with a lightsaber that were achieved primarily through his force ability, yet when it comes to force demigods such as Nihilus and Sion, you'll treat their lack of prowess (and even then, you'll be relying on absence of proof) as the big be all end all, and ignoring that the latter of the KotOR demigods has Palpatine's best showing beaten by a mile.

Now really Gideon, I can understand the need you appear to possess to constantly try to counter as much of my points as you can (which, like in this thread, usually only equates to a single line per argument), I would quite possibly be like that as well if someone had been dismantling my almost every argument, but you're coming off as a tad bit desperate, and obsessive (call the cops kind of obsessive), and you're losing on the logic front every single time. I'd suggest you put an end to this odd, and quite frankly creepy vendetta you appear to have against me, and stick to what you do best: writing poetry.

LOL, "creepy vendetta"? There is no vendetta, Nebaris. Really, do we need to discuss how you got on my account at SD.net and tried to get me banned? What about the last dozen or so of your account usernames being directly related to me? What about the obscenely long posts you've dedicated to me, since Janus, Nai, and myself have had our arguments? Or, what about the continuous returns and the bipolar, spastic rants you dedicate to me?

Lmao. The only one here with an obsession is you. We can all testify to it.