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i was looking at a board
it was the old topic of the "Jesus remains" found months ago if you remember all that
they were happily discussing what they felt would be the collapse of the Christian faith
how hypocritical is this ?

most Atheists denounce religions for spreading hate
but the people who hate religion are doing the exact same thing: spreading hate except they spread hate against religion instead of for it
i simply can't understand any human being gleefully awaiting the pain that would come to the millions of people who do believe
such hate is just as bad in my eyes as the hate of the people who kill in the name of their faith

Religious people are "spreading hate" to some, but are doing so for a perceived greater good. Atheists, like the example you used, generally don't attack religious people so much as the beliefs themselves because they see them as somehow irrational or harmful. Neither are doing so out of a desire to spread hate, but to improve humanity....even if it has the opposite affect.

It's all a matter of perspective.

Atheists may have a wide variety of reasons for speaking out against certain religions, thus making it difficult to generalize.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Religious people are "spreading hate" to some, but are doing so for a perceived greater good. Atheists, like the example you used, generally don't attack religious people so much as the beliefs themselves because they see them as somehow irrational or harmful. Neither are doing so out of a desire to spread hate, but to improve humanity....even if it has the opposite affect.

It's all a matter of perspective.

Another possibility is that there not even doing it for the benefit of humanity they are just doing it because they like being superior to other people. They say they have good intentions but deep down they know they're full of ****.

Originally posted by 123KID
i was looking at a board
it was the old topic of the "Jesus remains" found months ago if you remember all that
they were happily discussing what they felt would be the collapse of the Christian faith
how hypocritical is this ?

most Atheists denounce religions for spreading hate
but the people who hate religion are doing the exact same thing: spreading hate except they spread hate against religion instead of for it
i simply can't understand any human being gleefully awaiting the pain that would come to the millions of people who do believe
such hate is just as bad in my eyes as the hate of the people who kill in the name of their faith

Schadenfreud . . . it's hardly uncommon and it's just as prevalent in people who are theists and people who are atheists. Atheists are just better at showing it off.

Originally posted by 123KID


most Atheists denounce religions for spreading hate
but the people who hate religion are doing the exact same thing: spreading hate except they spread hate against religion instead of for it
i simply can't understand any human being gleefully awaiting the pain that would come to the millions of people who do believe
such hate is just as bad in my eyes as the hate of the people who kill in the name of their faith

Difference is I dont care if I hate a religion.

That religion's feelings wont be hurt by that.

I could sit there all day calling religion's mum a slag and it wouldn't bat an eyelid.

Its an ideology.

People 1st, ideology 2nd in the "who-does-the-feeling-of-the-hate stakes" in that regard.

And if we look at the more aggressive predatory recruiting tactics (and the hate you recieve for not following, from some quarters) employed by the various religions, and look at them like a regular bad uncle, it wouldn't be too wrong to feel free to object to their constant slimey advances..surely.

So its about time religion got its hand off of our collective knee.

If I ever get tired of free thinking, I'll know where to find it.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Another possibility is that there not even doing it for the benefit of humanity they are just doing it because they like being superior to other people. They say they have good intentions but deep down they know they're full of ****.

I suppose so. Again, though, it's a matter of perspective because they aren't just doing it on a whim. Anyone of any belief system has some cause for the words and actions.

Originally posted by 123KID

i simply can't understand any human being gleefully awaiting the pain that would come to the millions of people who do believe
such hate is just as bad in my eyes as the hate of the people who kill in the name of their faith

Correct! It's a lack of tolerance. You can find it in Atheism as well as Religion. We're all humans we all have our flaws. Until people learn to drop their superioty complex...we will still have these problems.

Originally posted by 123KID
i was looking at a board
it was the old topic of the "Jesus remains" found months ago if you remember all that
they were happily discussing what they felt would be the collapse of the Christian faith
how hypocritical is this ?

most Atheists denounce religions for spreading hate
but the people who hate religion are doing the exact same thing: spreading hate except they spread hate against religion instead of for it
i simply can't understand any human being gleefully awaiting the pain that would come to the millions of people who do believe
such hate is just as bad in my eyes as the hate of the people who kill in the name of their faith Good for you, but I will continue to find murder worse.

Collapse of the Christian faith? Sounds great!

i suppose
killing someone and ending it right there must be far worse than removing a person's reason for living and condemning them to existence, in their eyes, with no meaning
not to mention no Christian i know is eagerly awaiting millions of people losing their reason to live and being happy about it

I think the whole "this could disprove the christian religion" is aimed more at those christians who take the bible word for word. Like the ones who are home-schooling their kids about how the dinosaurs lived in the garden in eden and the end is near.

Most christians accept the theory of evolution, and if the remains were proven to be real they would accept that. A couple of bones wouldn't stop millions from practicing a religion, weather or not they believed in their authenticity.

Whats all this about Jesus remains?

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2007/02/25/tomb_arc.html?category=archaeology

Originally posted by 123KID
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2007/02/25/tomb_arc.html?category=archaeology

There are so many holes in that story it's not even funny. Seriously, when is National Geographic and the Discovery Channel gonna learn to call it quits? We've lasted 2,000 plus years with this recycled crap, I'm pretty sure we'll weather it every time they bring it to the surface.

Originally posted by 123KID
not to mention no Christian i know is eagerly awaiting millions of people losing their reason to live and being happy about it

Clearly you don't know any real Christains then. Everybody knows that faith causes people to go on a Crusade every couple years no matter how rational they might otherwise be. It's just common sense.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I suppose so. Again, though, it's a matter of perspective because they aren't just doing it on a whim. Anyone of any belief system has some cause for the words and actions.

To an extent yes, if the person is ignorant and doesnt know any better. People who say that fossils are the work of the devil for example are full of **** because these same people will use sciencie when it suits them but if something contradicts their belief they break out the devil escape clause. This is an example of constructing your own belief in order to give justification to imposing yourself on other people.

The moral of this thread is, yet again:

''Religion is Poo-poo and I want to be accepted therefore I shall make into my mantra!''

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
''Religion is Poo-poo and I want to be accepted therefore I shall make into my mantra!''



*considers starting a thread named this*

I think the idea that religious people "always go on crusades" is an irrational, hypocritical statement. If you could step back and take an objective view on this topic, you will see that Atheism has its crusades as well to try to eradicate religion on this planet as per the Christians tried to do with the Muslims etc. In such cases Atheism is more a religion of people who do not believe in God. A so called "group of loners".

Originally posted by Transfinitum
I think the idea that religious people "always go on crusades" is an irrational, hypocritical statement. If you could step back and take an objective view on this topic, you will see that Atheism has its crusades as well to try to eradicate religion on this planet as per the Christians tried to do with the Muslims etc. In such cases Atheism is more a religion of people who do not believe in God. A so called "group of loners".

Eradicating religion isn't eradicating people. One's an idea, the kind that can be challenged just like any other opinion (political, philosophical, etc.). The other's a person.

Big difference.

So yeah, atheists will challenge religion (the reverse is obviously true as well). Big whup. It deserves to be challenged, just like anything else. If it stands up to that challenge, great. If not, then the challenge was justified. Religion doesn't need to be on a respctful pedestal where it is never put up to tests, where we say "Oh, that's a religious belief, so even if I disagree vehemently I respect it and won't talk against it." No, that's giving religion (or atheism, or anything) too much credit and respect, rather than actually respecting it properly by facing up to its biggest challenges and, yes, faults.

This works both ways, for any belief or non-belief.

So get off you high horse and stop attacking atheism.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Eradicating religion isn't eradicating people. One's an idea, the kind that can be challenged just like any other opinion (political, philosophical, etc.). The other's a person.

When people go out to irradiate a political view or philosophy they often do kill people.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
So yeah, atheists will challenge religion (the reverse is obviously true as well). Big whup. It deserves to be challenged, just like anything else. If it stands up to that challenge, great. If not, then the challenge was justified. Religion doesn't need to be on a respctful pedestal where it is never put up to tests, where we say "Oh, that's a religious belief, so even if I disagree vehemently I respect it and won't talk against it." No, that's giving religion (or atheism, or anything) too much credit and respect rather than actually respecting it properly by facing up to its biggest challenges and, yes, faults.

Being respectful is only a bad thing if your trying to abuse moral relativism to justify yourself. Yes, everything has faults but before you can discuss those faults you have to agree that you will respect the other side, if you don't all that happens is a pissing contest.

Respecting a person's beliefs (even if you really think the person has gone completely insane) is the single most basic step to talking about them not an obstacle.

Just an opinion of course.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
So get off you high horse and stop attacking atheism.

But you just said that no belief should be place in a position where you would say " won't talk against it".

*enjoys brief moment of prickishness*

*gives Sym the middle finger*

Absolutist bastard!



Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
When people go out to irradiate a political view or philosophy they often do kill people.

Erm, ok. Granted. But didn't I say that the latter of those was bad? Think so. My point was debating without attacking people physically.



Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Being respectful is only a bad thing if your trying to abuse moral relativism to justify yourself. Yes, everything has faults but before you can discuss those faults you have to agree that you will respect the other side, if you don't all that happens is a pissing contest.

Respecting a person's beliefs (even if you really think the person has gone completely insane) is the single most basic step to talking about them not an obstacle.

Just an opinion of course.

I was saying that it's wrong to give religion so much respect that we feel disinclined to challenge it. The respectful avoidance characterized by people who try too hard not to upset anyone, when clearly some things need upsetting.

So you took my logic too far, rather than taking it for what it was. I don't think anyone would disagree that a respectful base on a personal level is a desirable start (though a rare one, given the volatility of the subject matter).

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But you just said that no belief should be place in a position where you would say " won't talk against it".

*enjoys brief moment of prickishness*

Enjoy it.

*goes to get Sym banned*

Anyway, there's a difference between debating against something and attacking it from a biased standpoint. Sometimes the line is vague, but usually it's pretty easy to discern which side of the line a particular person or argument is on.

Ah, but Digi, there is no level playing ground. You ask to rationally debate and weigh both sides of the argument (perfectly sensable, of course,) but what you fail to realize is that there is not level ground. In schools, for example, evolution is taught as the sole scientific theory when other forms with just as much justificaltion (ID Creationism etc.) are prohibited to be taught even as less likely alternataves. And if you dissagree that those are rational theories, you have another forum where I am still awaiting a response.

Originally posted by Transfinitum
Ah, but Digi, there is no level playing ground. You ask to rationally debate and weigh both sides of the argument (perfectly sensable, of course,) but what you fail to realize is that there is not level ground. In schools, for example, evolution is taught as the sole scientific theory when other forms with just as much justificaltion (ID Creationism etc.) are prohibited to be taught even as less likely alternataves. And if you dissagree that those are rational theories, you have another forum where I am still awaiting a response.

But ID is not a scientific theory.

It is as much so with evolution: just replace the "intelligent designer" with random chance and they are the same. The only difference is with random chance the probabilites are impossible. ID is the only plausable mechanism for evolution. But there is another forum for this topic, post there.

Originally posted by Transfinitum
It is as much so with evolution: just replace the "intelligent designer" with random chance and they are the same. The only difference is with random chance the probabilites are impossible. ID is the only plausable mechanism for evolution. But there is another forum for this topic, post there.

Evolution has nothing to do with random chance. Random chance does not exist in reality.

Then tell me, what causes "mutations"?

Originally posted by Transfinitum
Then tell me, what causes "mutations"?

Problems with reproduction.

And these problems occur when...

Originally posted by Transfinitum
And these problems occur when...

There are too many reasons to list. I will give an example: If the father is elderly, there will be a greater chance for brakes in the genetic code of the sperm. This will lead to a host of problems.

But yet you say "chance". Which then leads to a probability argument that was mentioned earlier in the Creationism vs. Evolution forum.

Originally posted by Transfinitum
But yet you say "chance". Which then leads to a probability argument that was mentioned earlier in the Creationism vs. Evolution forum.

You must understand what the word chance means. Chance only talks about what we know, or do not know. Nature and reality always knows because all things are driven by cause and effect.

Dude, this thread isn't about ID, which you clearly know nothing about based on your statements. Keep it where it belongs, because right now it amounts to spam, and will be reported if it continues.

Originally posted by Transfinitum
Ah, but Digi, there is no level playing ground. You ask to rationally debate and weigh both sides of the argument (perfectly sensable, of course,) but what you fail to realize is that there is not level ground. In schools, for example, evolution is taught as the sole scientific theory when other forms with just as much justificaltion (ID Creationism etc.) are prohibited to be taught even as less likely alternataves. And if you dissagree that those are rational theories, you have another forum where I am still awaiting a response.

lulz at you touting Creationism as a well justified scientific theory.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Dude, this thread isn't about ID, which you clearly know nothing about based on your statements. Keep it where it belongs, because right now it amounts to spam, and will be reported if it continues.

I'm sorry. I was just following Transfinitum over the edge.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I'm sorry. I was just following Transfinitum over the edge.

I was talking to him, not you. No worries.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Dude, this thread isn't about ID, which you clearly know nothing about based on your statements. Keep it where it belongs, because right now it amounts to spam, and will be reported if it continues. Very well then, it was a good debate. Goodbye.

Originally posted by 123KID most Atheists denounce religions for spreading hate
but the people who hate religion are doing the exact same thing: spreading hate except they spread hate against religion instead of for it


I think those who speak out against religion are not spreading hate, but simply proving a point - there is hatred in religion, and people are blind to that.

Originally posted by Tempe Brennan
I think those who speak out against religion are not spreading hate, but simply proving a point - there is hatred in religion, and people are blind to that.

of course atheists are making a point, and people usually see exasperation or the like as hate. its unfortunate but it happens. religion advocates alot more than atheists do. just look at the catholic churchs stance on gays

Originally posted by chickenlover98
just look at the catholic churchs stance on gays

I know. I think Athiest should be exposing these people for who they really are - non accepting, homophobic, anti abortion, fetus worshippers.

You'd be hard pressed to prove the Catholic Church to be homophobic. The first one is entirely incorrect as the Catholic Church is actually very accepting and willing to take anyone in. And the last two are such weak points it hurts.

i still think leonheartmm's point about the Church spreading lies about condom use and calling AIDS God's punishment is better
better in an amusing, sad way at how pathetic the devotion to hate makes people

Originally posted by Nellinator
You'd be hard pressed to prove the Catholic Church to be homophobic. The first one is entirely incorrect as the Catholic Church is actually very accepting and willing to take anyone in. And the last two are such weak points it hurts.

They are homophobic because they believe that homosexuals are evil. They are against abortion, no matter what, which means they worship fetus's.

This is what I suspected your answer would be. Ignorance appears to be your stance on the matter.

Originally posted by Tempe Brennan
They are against abortion, no matter what, which means they worship fetus's.

You're an idiot. There's really no other word for it.

sock?

Originally posted by 123KID
i still think leonheartmm's point about the Church spreading lies about condom use and calling AIDS God's punishment is better
better in an amusing, sad way at how pathetic the devotion to hate makes people

devotion to hate? sum1 still has his panties in a twist. it isnt devotion to hate, it is fact. the catholic church is not the charitable wonderful organisation it is thought by u to be. and i do not care enough about such silly organisations to "hate" them. also, stop trolling, its embarrising.