Current State of the Christian Faith
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123KID
i've often heard, here and elsewhere, that most "Christians" call themselves this simply because it's how they are raised
i can attest to this as i know people who say they are Christians but beyond "Jesus Christ was crucified" they don't know much else
apart from this there are also several factions and sects of Christianity each believing they alone are right about the word of Christ
so while it seems according to most polls most of the world is Christian the state of the faith seems rather...poor
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by 123KID
i've often heard, here and elsewhere, that most "Christians" call themselves this simply because it's how they are raised
i can attest to this as i know people who say they are Christians but beyond "Jesus Christ was crucified" they don't know much else
apart from this there are also several factions and sects of Christianity each believing they alone are right about the word of Christ
so while it seems according to most polls most of the world is Christian the state of the faith seems rather...poor
The Christian population in the world is about 1/3. That means most of the people on Earth (2/3) are of other religions or nonreligious.
Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The Christian population in the world is about 1/3. That means most of the people on Earth (2/3) are of other religions or nonreligious.
I think he means that no other faith has as many followers individually.
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I think he means that no other faith has as many followers individually.
That would also be wrong, but I digress.
Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That would also be wrong, but I digress.
Elaborate, VILE FIEND!!
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Elaborate, VILE FIEND!!
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
I'm not a fiend.
123KID
i meant Christianity was the most popular religion individually
this idea is supported here
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/
*shrug*
Bardock42
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
I'm not a fiend.
So he is right?
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Bardock42
So he is right?
Yes, that is why I posted the link.
Adam_PoE
Originally posted by 123KID
i've often heard, here and elsewhere, that most "Christians" call themselves this simply because it's how they are raised
i can attest to this as i know people who say they are Christians but beyond "Jesus Christ was crucified" they don't know much else
apart from this there are also several factions and sects of Christianity each believing they alone are right about the word of Christ
so while it seems according to most polls most of the world is Christian the state of the faith seems rather...poor
This begs the question, "Who Is a Christian?"
DigiMark007
Most people of any religion are only believers because they were raised with that particular belief system, 123Kid. It's not a new revelation....just an obvious commentary on societal inheritance.
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Most people of any religion are only believers because they were raised with that particular belief system, 123Kid. It's not a new revelation....just an obvious commentary on societal inheritance.
Most people will not change to another religion from the one they were born in not because of how they believe, but because of family pressure. I know for a fact; when I became a Buddhist, I got a lot of grief from my family about it.
DigiMark007
Right (my condolences, btw, for your family's reaction)...that's why I feel like those census numbers are a bit skewed. If you eliminated the number of people who are actually kind of a murky agnostic, you'd likely dock at least a few percentage points off of every major religion in the world. But "tacit" Christians who never bother formally leave will always be counted as adherents.
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Right (my condolences, btw, for your family's reaction)...that's why I feel like those census numbers are a bit skewed. If you eliminated the number of people who are actually kind of a murky agnostic, you'd likely dock at least a few percentage points off of every major religion in the world. But "tacit" Christians who never bother formally leave will always be counted as adherents.
Popularity seems to matter more to them then the truth. It always seems to boil down to most people believe...
Deja~vu
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I think he means that no other faith has as many followers individually. In name only.
Adam_PoE
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Right (my condolences, btw, for your family's reaction)...that's why I feel like those census numbers are a bit skewed. If you eliminated the number of people who are actually kind of a murky agnostic, you'd likely dock at least a few percentage points off of every major religion in the world. But "tacit" Christians who never bother formally leave will always be counted as adherents.
DigiMark007
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
An excellent article. It was posted sometime before and I happened to read it. My post was likely partly inspired by what I remembered from it.
So like I said, there's a lot to be said for census results, but only to a point. And my guess, both intuitively and from that article, is that the biggest gap from the poll to the truth is in agnostics.
ushomefree
I agree 100 percent; I have an account with MySpace, and I often reference independent labels and local bands to experiment with other forms of music. While sifting through profiles, I happen to notice and young male "so-called" Hip-Hop artist. I viewed the profile, and to my dismay, his entire profile was plastered with distasteful, pornographic imaging; images of gang violence were also present. And his music--which I sampled--contained lyrics about gang violence, drugs, sex, and money. If someone wishes to live their lives--and present themselves--in this fashion, more power to them; but what really grabbed my attention, was the fact that he claimed to be Christian. I wrote him a message stating, "Your not Christian," to provoke a response. The same evening, I got a reply. And this "so-called" Hip-Hop artist stated, "Only God can judge me. I've been baptized yo." Realizing that he didn't have the foggiest idea of what being Christian entails--or even stands for--I responded exposing his error in thought; I wanted to help. I sent a brief message about "repentance" and being "born-again" in the Holy Spirit. Surely, this young man showed zero signs of either; but I never heard from him again. This is an extreme example, but people do claim to be Christian (when in fact, they are not). Christianity is not a social club; but many people treat it that way. Yes, polls do indicate that 30 percent of the world population is Christian. But I would argue that the percentage is less; by how much, only God Himself knows. The state of the Christian Church is poor. The majority of "so-called" Christian Churches are "apostate," meaning, they do not teach the Gospel as it was intended to. Instead, alternate--more appealing--versions of the Gospel are preached, and this produces "false converts." In the world today, especially in the United States, you've got "so-called" Christians aborting babies to ensure they can continue their life of partying (or whatever). Christian cults are at an all time high; it's just plan nuts. But the Bible states--I believe in the book of Daniel and Revelation?--that the Christian Church will suffer these conditions. In fact, it's a sign of the End Times!
chickenlover98
Originally posted by ushomefree
I agree 100 percent; I have an account with MySpace, and I often reference independent labels and local bands to experiment with other forms of music. While sifting through profiles, I happen to notice and young male "so-called" Hip-Hop artist. I viewed the profile, and to my dismay, his entire profile was plastered with distasteful, pornographic imaging; images of gang violence were also present. And his music--which I sampled--contained lyrics about gang violence, drugs, sex, and money. If someone wishes to live their lives--and present themselves--in this fashion, more power to them; but what really grabbed my attention, was the fact that he claimed to be Christian. I wrote him a message stating, "Your not Christian," to provoke a response. The same evening, I got a reply. And this "so-called" Hip-Hop artist stated, "Only God can judge me. I've been baptized yo." Realizing that he didn't have the foggiest idea of what being Christian entails--or even stands for--I responded exposing his error in thought; I wanted to help. I sent a brief message about "repentance" and being "born-again" in the Holy Spirit. Surely, this young man showed zero signs of either; but I never heard from him again. This is an extreme example, but people do claim to be Christian (when in fact, they are not). Christianity is not a social club; but many people treat it that way. Yes, polls do indicate that 30 percent of the world population is Christian. But I would argue that the percentage is less; by how much, only God Himself knows. The state of the Christian Church is poor. The majority of "so-called" Christian Churches are "apostate," meaning, they do not teach the Gospel as it was intended to. Instead, alternate--more appealing--versions of the Gospel are preached, and this produces "false converts." In the world today, especially in the United States, you've got "so-called" Christians aborting babies to ensure they can continue their life of partying (or whatever). Christian cults are at an all time high; it's just plan nuts. But the Bible states--I believe in the book of Daniel and Revelation?--that the Christian Church will suffer these conditions. In fact, it's a sign of the End Times!
ok seriously, get the **** off your high horse you are not better than everyone.
now in the christian religion, all you have to do is repent your sins to god and accept jesus as your lord and savior right? so you murder 5000 people and repent and your good. dont preach on what it is to be a christian its that friggin simple
SpearofDestiny
I tend to stop attacking the religion, because my mom is Christian, and as hypocritical as it sounds, every time I critisize Christianity, I feel like I am attacking my mother. I hate that feeling.
I am not Christian, but that doesn't mean I don't beleive in the spiritual. I have my own ideas about what God is or isn't, and I respect her ideas, even though I don't fully agree.
I see it like this: When she eventually finds out that I am Gay, she won't like it. She will be against it, etc. But eventually, the more she attacks homosexuality and gay people, the more she will feel that she is actually attacking me.
Her identity as a Mother will override her identity as a Christian, and she will feel bad for having those kind of critical thoughts. She will eventually come around and accept it.
As of now, I accept her being Christian. Not only do I accept it, I encourage it. I love her
Lil Buddy
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
I tend to stop attacking the religion, because my mom is Christian, and as hypocritical as it sounds, every time I critisize Christianity, I feel like I am attacking my mother. I hate that feeling.
I am not Christian, but that doesn't mean I don't beleive in the spiritual. I have my own ideas about what God is or isn't, and I respect her ideas, even though I don't fully agree.
I see it like this: When she eventually finds out that I am Gay, she won't like it. She will be against it, etc. But eventually, the more she attacks homosexuality and gay people, the more she will feel that she is actually attacking me.
Her identity as a Mother will override her identity as a Christian, and she will feel bad for having those kind of critical thoughts. She will eventually come around and accept it.
As of now, I accept her being Christian. Not only do I accept it, I encourage it. I love her
Nah she will probably hate you.
SpearofDestiny
Originally posted by Lil Buddy
Nah she will probably hate you.
She's not that stupid
Bardock42
It's Urizen, chances are she already hates him.
SpearofDestiny
Originally posted by Bardock42
It's Urizen, chances are she already hates him.
Drink my sperm droolio
Quiero Mota
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
I am not Christian, but that doesn't mean I don't beleive in the spiritual. I have my own ideas about what God is or isn't
Why is it that Buddhists always have their "own idea" of what god(s) is, when the founder of their religion never touched upon the idea?
This is of course assuming you're a 'real' Buddhist, and not a weekend-warrior who once a week sits cross-legged with your eyes closed listening to a "Sounds of Nature" CD. I've really only noticed this "I have my idea of god" among American converts to Buddhism; I've never heard anyone from Thailand or Veitnam say anything lke that.
DigiMark007
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Why is it that Buddhists always have their "own idea" of what god(s) is, when the founder of their religion never touched upon the idea?
This is of course assuming you're a 'real' Buddhist, and not a weekend-warrior who once a week sits cross-legged with your eyes closed listening to a "Sounds of Nature" CD. I've really only noticed this "I have my idea of god" among American converts to Buddhism; I've never heard anyone from Thailand or Veitnam say anything lke that.
People are allowed to have ideas outside their professed religions. I'd bet if you polled all Christians, 99% of them would have at least a few differing viewpoints from whatever sect of Christianity they adhere to.
So yeah, it's might be an American trend toward Buddhism. But while Buddhism isn't a theistic religion, it is not contradictory toward some theistic ideas.
SpearofDestiny
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Why is it that Buddhists always have their "own idea" of what god(s) is, when the founder of their religion never touched upon the idea?
This is of course assuming you're a 'real' Buddhist, and not a weekend-warrior who once a week sits cross-legged with your eyes closed listening to a "Sounds of Nature" CD. I've really only noticed this "I have my idea of god" among American converts to Buddhism; I've never heard anyone from Thailand or Veitnam say anything lke that.
But Hindus do have thier own various ideas of what God is.
My beleiving in God has nothing to do with my adaptation of Buddhist beleifs. When you say "real Buddhist", I do not adhere, but I know what you mean. I am not a "hardcore" practicing Buddhist, much like many Christians who don't attend mass, pray much, or even read up on the Bible a lot.
I'll say it this way:
In terms of Buddhism, I do beleive in the EightFold Path. I do beleive that Desire/Longing is the fundamental cause of mental/emotional pain.
Because of the beleif in Attachment leading to suffering, I have been much better able to relieve myself of certain obsessions, and I have become FAR LESS dependent on other people- in a short time- beleive me.
Also Buddhist practice such as meditation (certain meditative states), and constant adherance to atleast what I percieve as the Eight Fold Path, has helped me not to get as angry as I used to over little things.
So, more or less...I am not "Buddhist" for the sake of being Buddhist. Studies in Buddhism have helped me for the better. Especially where Tibetan Buddhism is concerned, because thier ideas tend to branch off the Buddha's original teachings- in terms of energy environment relations, etc.- another story.
I don't beleive everything Buddha discovered. Nirvana may or may not exist, and to me it seems more like a mental state of being rather than another phase of reality. But I do greatly admire Siddhartha, and that emotional state that most Buddhists achieved is what I desire-
I want to be in full control of myself. According to Buddha, having control of yourself is the greatest victory.
Now....
My ideas of God are not linked to Buddhism. I think my own way. To me, God is not a man or woman. God is everything. It is not a sentient being, but rather a collective intelligence. We are part of that, we all have access to it, every human and animal.
Scientifically, you know we are all made of the same fundamental stuff- matter/energy. We simply exist in different forms.
To simplify it: I beleive the Universe is God. I beleive the Universe chose to become self aware through the existance of living beings. Living beings such as humans, animals, plants, and any alien life that might exist- all whom possess different senses.
Many studies in Quantum Physics are suggesting that Perception has a huge effect on physical matter. If you google "water molecule affected by emotion", or see the movie "What the Bleep is Going On", you'll know more of what I am talking about.
King Kandy
Originally posted by ushomefree
I agree 100 percent; I have an account with MySpace, and I often reference independent labels and local bands to experiment with other forms of music. While sifting through profiles, I happen to notice and young male "so-called" Hip-Hop artist. I viewed the profile, and to my dismay, his entire profile was plastered with distasteful, pornographic imaging; images of gang violence were also present. And his music--which I sampled--contained lyrics about gang violence, drugs, sex, and money. If someone wishes to live their lives--and present themselves--in this fashion, more power to them; but what really grabbed my attention, was the fact that he claimed to be Christian. I wrote him a message stating, "Your not Christian," to provoke a response. The same evening, I got a reply. And this "so-called" Hip-Hop artist stated, "Only God can judge me. I've been baptized yo." Realizing that he didn't have the foggiest idea of what being Christian entails--or even stands for--I responded exposing his error in thought; I wanted to help. I sent a brief message about "repentance" and being "born-again" in the Holy Spirit. Surely, this young man showed zero signs of either; but I never heard from him again. This is an extreme example, but people do claim to be Christian (when in fact, they are not). Christianity is not a social club; but many people treat it that way. Yes, polls do indicate that 30 percent of the world population is Christian. But I would argue that the percentage is less; by how much, only God Himself knows. The state of the Christian Church is poor. The majority of "so-called" Christian Churches are "apostate," meaning, they do not teach the Gospel as it was intended to. Instead, alternate--more appealing--versions of the Gospel are preached, and this produces "false converts." In the world today, especially in the United States, you've got "so-called" Christians aborting babies to ensure they can continue their life of partying (or whatever). Christian cults are at an all time high; it's just plan nuts. But the Bible states--I believe in the book of Daniel and Revelation?--that the Christian Church will suffer these conditions. In fact, it's a sign of the End Times!
Holy shit you are arrogant. Did you ever consider that you're the one who's wrong about christianity?
Quiero Mota
Originally posted by DigiMark007
People are allowed to have ideas outside their professed religions.
Not if it directly contradicts their religion's rules.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
So yeah, it's might be an American trend toward Buddhism.
And that's pretty much how it is among Americans who "become" Buddhist: a trend/all the cool kids are doing it.
Or as Devil King once put it: "Buddhism is the one religion you can belong to without really knowing anything about it."
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
I am not a "hardcore" practicing Buddhist
No shit.
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
I don't beleive everything Buddha discovered.
Which is really no different than saying:
"I'm a Muslim, but there's probably more than one god out there."
"I'm a Christian, but the Trinity is fake."
"I'm a Hindu, but that four-armed elephant is the stupidest idea ever and probably the product of an acid trip."
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
My ideas of God are not linked to Buddhism.
And...how exactly are you a Buddhist??
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
To simplify it: I beleive the Universe is God. I beleive the Universe chose to become self aware through the existance of living beings. Living beings such as humans, animals, plants, and any alien life that might exist- all whom possess different senses.
What is this belief based on? Did you just come up with it on your own?
"Maaaaan......like.......what if the universe....is like....alive.....you know? Whoooooooa! (stoned giggles)"
Bardock42
Do all Christians believe in the Trinity?
Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Bardock42
Do all Christians believe in the Trinity?
That's what makes a Christian a Christian. Just like believing in the Tahwid is what makes a Muslim a Muslim.
King Kandy
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Maaaaan......like.......what if the universe....is like....alive.....you know? Whoooooooa! (stoned giggles)"
You gotta respect that.
chickenlover98
Originally posted by King Kandy
You gotta respect that.
damn right
Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
And...how exactly are you a Buddhist??
He is not. He is a "buffet believer" whose set of beliefs are cribbed from other belief systems. He embraces aspects of various philosophies and religions and disregards others.
123KID
i don't even see what the big deal is finding out your kid is gay in regards to Spear's post
do you honestly think God, creator of the universe and all life, gives a shit who you like or don't like in your life ?
be a good person; a humane person and that's it
DigiMark007
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
And that's pretty much how it is among Americans who "become" Buddhist: a trend/all the cool kids are doing it.
The hell? I seem to remember similar assumptions that you made about atheists based on 1-2 anecdotes or people you knew. Personally, I'd like to see anything resembling a coherent argument for people becoming Buddhists because "all the cool kids are doing it." Did we segue to talking about drugs? Or by kids do you mean anyone under the age of 30 or something, long past the age where peer pressure plays a vital role in anything, let alone one's religious beliefs? Because by the normal definition of "kid" (under 18) you'd be hard-pressed to validate anything about that statement.
But I like how you marginalize Buddism (and Buddhists themselves) by trying to say that having a belief in a God invalidates their more Eastern leanings. If it wasn't as tragic as most of your erroenous assumptions, it might actually be amusing.
And as it applies to Christianity, if everyone who didn't believe 100% of what was taught by their sect of Christianity was forced to leave, you'd be left with maybe 4-5% of Christians. People can, and do, think for themselves, even within and around the bounds of organized religion.
Quiero Mota
Originally posted by DigiMark007
The hell? I seem to remember similar assumptions that you made about atheists based on 1-2 anecdotes or people you knew. Personally, I'd like to see anything resembling a coherent argument for people becoming Buddhists because "all the cool kids are doing it." Did we segue to talking about drugs? Or by kids do you mean anyone under the age of 30 or something, long past the age where peer pressure plays a vital role in anything, let alone one's religious beliefs? Because by the normal definition of "kid" (under 18) you'd be hard-pressed to validate anything about that statement.
But I like how you marginalize Buddism (and Buddhists themselves) by trying to say that having a belief in a God invalidates their more Eastern leanings. If it wasn't as tragic as most of your erroenous assumptions, it might actually be amusing.
And as it applies to Christianity, if everyone who didn't believe 100% of what was taught by their sect of Christianity was forced to leave, you'd be left with maybe 4-5% of Christians. People can, and do, think for themselves, even within and around the bounds of organized religion.
It's not an "erroeneous assumption" on my part, its an empirical observation. Brad Pitt is a Buddhist, ok, now do you honestly believe that his Biddhism is the same as a person from Thailand, or any other person who was raised into or takes it seriously? And then you have George Lucas; he converted to Buddhism for while and then went back to Methodism. And here we have SpearofDestiny admitting that "Nirvana may or may not exist, and to me it seems more like a mental state of being rather than another phase of reality." WHAT?? Nirvana is to Buddhism as the Tahwid is to Islam. You can't say that you belong to a given religion and then reject what makes it that religion. Siddartha Gautama himself never taught any about any god(s), so he's basically adding to his own religion and making shit up.
So with American converts to Buddhism like George Lucas and many of others, it's really just a fad. I've known many Americans who were both raised Buddhist and then ones who converted, and the latter doesn't take it very seriously or really know much about the founder's teachings.
Originally posted by Devil King
It's the one religion you can belong to without really knowing anything about it.
Bardock42
That's bullshit though. You can belong to any sort of Christian sect without knowing even the most fundamental shit about it.
Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Bardock42
That's bullshit though. You can belong to any sort of Christian sect without knowing even the most fundamental shit about it.
In that case you're just "belonging" for the sake of belonging.
Robtard
I have to agree with Mota, I've met many a person who converted to Buddhism, just because they thought it was trendy, of course they won't admit it, but when they know nothing of the religion except that you're supposed to be "enlightened" and that Nam Ryo Goy (?) phrase, it's fairly obvious.
Sure it anecdotal, but it seems to be common.
DigiMark007
And I know those that do know a lot of it. Does my evidence become invalidated because you're waiving George Lucas and SoD in my face? No, of course not.
In any case, there's countless forms of any religion (Christianity, Buddhism, etc. etc.). In fact, there's as many forms of those religions as there are people who adhere to them.
People can think outside the box, even if they aren't within the normal bounds of organized religious thought. Saying that "it isn't Buddhism" may be true in some cases like those you mentioned, but that statement doesn't invalidate what they think. Telling SoD "you aren't Buddhist" may be partially true, but doesn't refute any of his beliefs themselves, nor make him less of a free thinker.
And have you talked to George Lucas? Something tells me the man is above peer pressure. The "fad" may have made it popular, but it becomes a fad because people see something in it that they identify with, regardless if its "true" Buddhism or slightly different, and this popularity is the product of human choice, not mindless consumer shopping mentality to religion.
Once again, we can all think for ourselves, and routinely do. And it doesn't always have to be within prescribed notions of religion.
Originally posted by Robtard
I have to agree with Mota, I've met many a person who converted to Buddhism, just because they thought it was trendy, of course they won't admit it, but when they know nothing of the religion except that you're supposed to be "enlightened" and that Nam Ryo Goy (?) phrase, it's fairly obvious.
Sure it anecdotal, but it seems to be common.
"seems"??
"sure it anecdotal"??
Right. My point exactly. And if the phrase is an allusion to shakya (maybe it isn't) he's actually fairly informed about his beliefs.
There's "trendy" Christians or people of any religious belief too. It doesn't invalidate the religion or peoples' decision to choose it.
Robtard
Originally posted by Bardock42
That's bullshit though. You can belong to any sort of Christian sect without knowing even the most fundamental shit about it.
...and most "Christians", do not act like Christians, ie following the teaching of Jesus and following in his footsteps.
Bardock42
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
In that case you're just "belonging" for the sake of belonging. Like with Buddhism and stupid kids. So, what's the difference?
And I agree with you, too, actually. Just not with the "only" statement.
I don't think shakya belongs to that group at all by the way, he's just an idiot. Gets mistaken for that sometimes.
Quiero Mota
Originally posted by DigiMark007
And I know those that do know a lot of it. Does my evidence become invalidated because you're waiving George Lucas and SoD in my face? No, of course not.
In any case, there's countless forms of any religion (Christianity, Buddhism, etc. etc.). In fact, there's as many forms of those religions as there are people who adhere to them.
People can think outside the box, even if they aren't within the normal bounds of organized religious thought. Saying that "it isn't Buddhism" may be true in some cases like those you mentioned, but that statement doesn't invalidate what they think. Telling SoD "you aren't Buddhist" may be partially true, but doesn't refute any of his beliefs themselves, nor make him less of a free thinker.
And have you talked to George Lucas? Something tells me the man is above peer pressure. The "fad" may have made it popular, but it becomes a fad because people see something in it that they identify with, regardless if its "true" Buddhism or slightly different, and this popularity is the product of human choice, not mindless consumer shopping mentality to religion.
Once again, we can all think for ourselves, and routinely do. And it doesn't always have to be within prescribed notions of religion.
"seems"??
"sure it anecdotal"??
Right. My point exactly. And if the phrase is an allusion to shakya (maybe it isn't) he's actually fairly informed about his beliefs.
There's "trendy" Christians or people of any religious belief too. It doesn't invalidate the religion or peoples' decision to choose it.
The American convert to Buddhism who takes it seriously and is knowledgable on it is a rare animal. George Lucas and SoD are archetypes and good representatives.
Originally posted by Robtard
I have to agree with Mota, I've met many a person who converted to Buddhism, just because they thought it was trendy, of course they won't admit it, but when they know nothing of the religion except that you're supposed to be "enlightened" and that Nam Ryo Goy (?) phrase, it's fairly obvious.
Sure it anecdotal, but it seems to be common.
Yeah, pretty much in nutshell.
Robtard
Originally posted by DigiMark007
"seems"??
"sure it anecdotal"??
Right. My point exactly. And if the phrase is an allusion to shakya (maybe it isn't) he's actually fairly informed about his beliefs.
There's "trendy" Christians or people of any religious belief too. It doesn't invalidate the religion or peoples' decision to choose it.
But it's also a common recurrence, so...
No, that wasn't pointed at Shaky, he actually comes off as having some insight into Buddhism that most other converts do not.
Not sure how someone can be a Christian, Buddhist or whatever, if they don't hold the core values of that religion. Could a Muslim be a Muslim if he/she thought that Muhammad wasn't the "one prophet" or that Allah isn't indeed great?
Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Bardock42
I don't think shakya belongs to that group at all by the way, he's just an idiot. Gets mistaken for that sometimes.
I honeslty believe that Shaky takes Buddhism very seriously. You know, like those middle-aged White American men who become Hare Krishna's and walk around with orange clothes and yellow dots on their foreheads.
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
The American convert to Buddhism who takes it seriously and is knowledgable on it is a rare animal. George Lucas and SoD are archetypes and good representatives.
Yeah, pretty much in nutshell.
There is a difference between someone who believes Buddhist Philosophy and someone who has a Buddhist practise.
Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There is a difference between someone who believes Buddhist Philosophy and someone who has a Buddhist practise.
Exactly; the former isn't one.
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Exactly; the former isn't one.
I will not get into what a "true" Buddhist is cause if it brings them happiness, then why should I care?
Robtard
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I will not get into what a "true" Buddhist is cause if it brings them happiness, then why should I care?
I don't think anyone here is stating a problem, just an observation. A person can shove a feather duster up their ass and call themselves a chicken if it makes them happy, for all I care.
Edit: THere is an exception, I do not like when people use their religion (or pieces of) as a tool to put down others when it suits them.
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Robtard
I don't think anyone here is stating a problem, just an observation. A person can shove a feather duster up their ass and call themselves a chicken if it makes them happy, for all I care.
Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Robtard
...and most "Christians", do not act like Christians, ie following the teaching of Jesus and following in his footsteps.
The Bible leaves a lot of room for interpretation so I'm not sure how you can say that.
Robtard
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The Bible leaves a lot of room for interpretation so I'm not sure how you can say that.
Well, I am pretty sure Jesus-God didn't hate, no matter how you intrepret it; that's how I can say that.
Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Robtard
Well, I am pretty sure Jesus-God didn't hate, no matter how you intrepret it; that's how I can say that.
But the Bible does contain condemnation of certain behaviors (and fig trees). It doesn't say that one should hate anyone but it's hardly unreasonable for a person to form the opinion that people who do things which their religion says a wrong are deserving of contempt. Not to mention that God does plenty of "take no prisoners" things in the Bible.
It would be nice if more people focused on the positive aspects of Judeo-Christian but you can't say that they aren't Christian simply because they are hateful.
Robtard
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But the Bible does contain condemnation of certain behaviors (and fig trees). It doesn't say that one should hate anyone but it's hardly unreasonable for a person to form the opinion that people who do things which their religion says a wrong are deserving of contempt. Not to mention that God does plenty of "take no prisoners" things in the Bible.
It would be nice if more people focused on the positive aspects of Judeo-Christian but you can't say that they aren't Christian simply because they are hateful.
I am mainly talking about the people who are selective in what is wrong and right while using their religion as support/validation. An example: people will often invoke the Bible as a reason to discriminate against gays, because "it's a sin in the bible", yet there are other things in the Bible that are just as sinful, like adultery, yet you never hear the holier-than-thou making laws discriminating that. Can you see Bush and the "Moral Right" tyring to amend the Constitution were it makes it illegal for adulterers to stay married or ever marry again?
Then whats makes a Christian? Just saying "I'm Christian"? If I hold "Jesus as my personal savior and accept him into my heart", yet lie, cheat, steal and hate, would I be a Christian? To me, a Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Christ, maybe I'm just crazy in thinking that.
Personally, I am for many of the Jeudo-Christian concepts and see them as a positive, I'm not a Christian though, nor do I think you need to be to see the positives.
Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Robtard
I am mainly talking about the people who are selective in what is wrong and wrong while using their religion as support/validation. An example: people will often invoke the Bible as a reason to discriminate against gays, because "it's a sin in the bible", yet there are other things in the Bible that are just as sinful, like adultery, yet you never hear the holier-than-thou making laws discriminating that. Can you see Bush and the "Moral Right" tyring to amend the Constitution were it makes it illegal for adulterers to stay married or ever marry again?
If they only use it for validation of feelings they have which are not directly connected to Christianity they I would agree that they're not Christians. But every Christian picks and chooses the parts of the Bible they wish to follow, the pastor at the church I go to has talked about how "living as Jesus wanted us to" simply isn't possible in our world.
Originally posted by Robtard
Then whats makes a Christian? Just saying "I'm Christian"? If I hold "Jesus as my personal savior and accept him into my heart", yet lie, cheat steal and hate, would I be a Christian? To me, a Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Christ, maybe I'm just crazy in thinking that.
I'd say idealistic not crazy.
If a person truly believe that Christ will have his/her soul that person a Christian despite how hypocritical he/she might be about what is actually in the Bible. That person might not be a very good Christian (or a good person for that matter) but I think he/she would technically qualify as Christian.
Robtard
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If they only use it for validation of feelings they have which are not directly connected to Christianity they I would agree that they're not Christians. But every Christian picks and chooses the parts of the Bible they wish to follow, the pastor at the church I go to has talked about how "living as Jesus wanted us to" simply isn't possible in our world.
You don't see that as a critical problem in being a Christian?
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'd say idealistic not crazy.
If a person truly believe that Christ will have his/her soul that person a Christian despite how hypocritical he/she might be about what is actually in the Bible. That person might not be a very good Christian (or a good person for that matter) but I think he/she would technically qualify as Christian.
Then by your account, one only need say "I am Christian", to be Christian. I disagree, for reasons stated above, call it idealistic if you will.
SpearofDestiny
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Not if it directly contradicts their religion's rules.
And that's pretty much how it is among Americans who "become" Buddhist: a trend/all the cool kids are doing it.
Or as Devil King once put it: "Buddhism is the one religion you can belong to without really knowing anything about it."
No shit.
Which is really no different than saying:
"I'm a Muslim, but there's probably more than one god out there."
"I'm a Christian, but the Trinity is fake."
"I'm a Hindu, but that four-armed elephant is the stupidest idea ever and probably the product of an acid trip."
And...how exactly are you a Buddhist??
What is this belief based on? Did you just come up with it on your own?
"Maaaaan......like.......what if the universe....is like....alive.....you know? Whoooooooa! (stoned giggles)"
Let me ask you:
Do you literally beleive in Adam and Eve ?
Do you beleive that Moses actually parted the sea ?
Do you believe prostitutes should be stoned to death ?
Do you beleive the Earth is relatively 6000 years old ?
Do you truly beleive in Hell ?
Do you truly beleive in angels and demons ?
If you answered "no" to any of the above questions, is it safe for me to conclude that you are not truly Christian ?
Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Robtard
You don't see that as a critical problem in being a Christian?
Then by your account, one only need say "I am Christian", to be Christian. I disagree, for reasons stated above, call it idealistic if you will.
If you believe it the, yes, I would say you would in fact be a Christian. Just saying it is meaningless, of course.
DigiMark007
Originally posted by Robtard
Well, I am pretty sure Jesus-God didn't hate, no matter how you intrepret it;
Have you read the Old Testament?
Also, Quiero, not all sects of Christianity believe in the Trinity. Most. But not all. Get your head out of the sand. There's a tangent belief for ANY major religious doctrine.
Quiero Mota
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Let me ask you:
Do you literally beleive in Adam and Eve ?
Do you beleive that Moses actually parted the sea ?
Do you believe prostitutes should be stoned to death ?
Do you beleive the Earth is relatively 6000 years old ?
Do you truly beleive in Hell ?
Do you truly beleive in angels and demons ?
If you answered "no" to any of the above questions, is it safe for me to conclude that you are not truly Christian ?
I believe in the Trinity, which is what makes a Christian a Christian. I know Muslims who don't follow the dietary laws, pray 5 times a day or literally believe in the Buraq, but they believe in the Tahwid, so therefore they are Muslims.
Also, way to ignore the rest of my post.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Also, Quiero, not all sects of Christianity believe in the Trinity. Most. But not all. Get your head out of the sand. There's a tangent belief for ANY major religious doctrine.
Then they're not Christians, its simple as that. That's like saying "Some Muslims worship two gods"...well, guess what? They're not Muslims. They may believe everything that Mohammed preached, but if they believe in more than one god, they're not Muslim.
leonheartmm
^trinity doesnt exist in the bible. the passages where it was even vaguely hinted were taken out by biblical scholars as fabrications but put back in due to pressre from certain church denominations who threatened action.
and its more like paulanity. trinity doesnt really make a christian a christian{or follower of paul from a perspective}. i think beleiving that jesus was a saviour does.
doesnt really matter.
Bardock42
I think so too. I believe the trinity is a concept added lateron to explain some logical problems in the Bible. I am sure there are many Christian sects that don't believe in it. And I think it is arrogant to say they are not Christians. Trinity was not fundamental to the Bible.
Quark_666
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Then they're not Christians, its simple as that.
Does that include the Christians that existed before third century A.D.?
DigiMark007
Originally posted by Bardock42
I think so too. I believe the trinity is a concept added lateron to explain some logical problems in the Bible. I am sure there are many Christian sects that don't believe in it. And I think it is arrogant to say they are not Christians. Trinity was not fundamental to the Bible.
My point exactly. But Mota's definition of Christianity is apparently fairly synonymous with his Christianity.
Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
This begs the question, "Who Is a Christian?"
Robtard
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Have you read the Old Testament?
Yes, did you? Jesus did away with the "wrathful God".
Robtard
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If you believe it the, yes, I would say you would in fact be a Christian. Just saying it is meaningless, of course.
We're circling, because I can really believe I am a Christian, yet still do horrible unChristian actions, as mentioned above.
Just believing, is as useless as just saying it. To me, actions speak louder than words. Which was/is my original point.
Reading up on and knowing the teachings of Jesus is a world apart from actually following the teachings.
Bardock42
Originally posted by Robtard
Yes, did you? Jesus did away with the "wrathful God". Not quite. That's what modern Christians like to say and think though.
Besides. To me being a Christian always meant that you have to accept Jesus Christ as your saviour and son of God.
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Quark_666
Does that include the Christians that existed before third century A.D.?
Burn them at the stake.
Quark_666
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Burn them at the stake.
Oh no. Now some Christians are actually going to try.
Robtard
Originally posted by Bardock42
Not quite. That's what modern Christians like to say and think though.
Besides. To me being a Christian always meant that you have to accept Jesus Christ as your saviour and son of God.
Very quite, actually.
I agree, but just saying you "accept" and living a life like you've accepted Jesus, are two different paths.
Bardock42
Originally posted by Robtard
Very quite, actually.
I agree, but just saying you "accept" and living a life like you've accepted Jesus, are two different paths. Meh. Don't really care what particular sect of Christianity uses which definition of accept now.
Deja~vu
Be good and all will follow. this is truth to people.
Storm
There is a high level of people who regard themselves as religious, but the actual percentage of practising theists is far lower.
DigiMark007
Originally posted by Robtard
Yes, did you? Jesus did away with the "wrathful God".
I like the image of Jesus "doing away" with God. Like he just sort of whipped the petulant little child that was God until he figured out how to be more forgiving. It amuses me. So God's been all-knowing and all-powerful since forever, but apparently it took him until about 2000 years ago to get his ducks in a row with this whole morality thing. Nice.
Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by DigiMark007
I like the image of Jesus "doing away" with God. Like he just sort of whipped the petulant little child that was God until he figured out how to be more forgiving. It amuses me. So God's been all-knowing and all-powerful since forever, but apparently it took him until about 2000 years ago to get his ducks in a row with this whole morality thing. Nice.
Seems more like a retcon to me. Hal Jordan didn't suddenly get over that whole "I'm horribly evil" thing, we just found out another side to the story.
lil bitchiness
The way to solve this would be to accept YHWH, Allah and Deus and treat them as trinity.
You know, like Jewish God is God all about administration - laws, justice, that sort of thing.
Christian God to be all about the hippy love, and everyone loves everyone and no stone throwing..etc.
And then Allah who completes the trinity as God that God's wrath - when you break the law of the Jewish god, or don't love the love of the Christian one, Allah will go ape shit on your ass.
I think thats a fair compromise.
Deja~vu
^^ Hippy god.........hahahahha
Originally posted by Robtard
Yes, did you? Jesus did away with the "wrathful God". but they are one in the same. Did god change his mind? I always thought God changes not
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