Supermen and magic

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Alfheim
Im quite ignorant on this subject but I would like some info. Whats the deal with Superman and magic? Some verisons of superman are more vulnerable to magic than others. SBP for example does not have a weakness to magic, does this mean he is completely immune or does it simply mean hes not taken out so easily eg SBP does not have a wekaness for getting punched in the face but a sufficently powerful punch will hurt him.

What versions of Superman are completely immune to magic and can magic be used in a different way to hurt them eg a magical bolt will do nothing but if you use magic to give yourself superhuman strength your strength can damage them.

grey fox
Kryptonians (and possibly Daxamites) owe their incredible durability to their Bio-Electric auras which shield them from harm. Magic however can bypass it completely, this is because....

1. Magic is inherently chaotic and doesn't have to follow Sciences 'rules'
2. It's freaking magic !

SBP is an anomaly due to his Magic resistance, there is a possibility however that he could be harmed by Magic from Earth Prime. But considering we have no actual Magic it's a moot point.

Silver-age Superman was very vulnerable to magic, more-so then his post crisis counterpart. Then again he was like that with K-nite.

Alfheim
Originally posted by grey fox


SBP is an anomaly due to his Magic resistance,

Ok but what exactly do you mean by resistant? Do you mean it does jack **** or that for example it can hurt him but its not as easy for example SBP is resistant to brute force but not invulnerable?

Juntai
Superman can willpower through his way through magic as well, just shrugging off it's effects.

Juntai
Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok but what exactly do you mean by resistant? Do you mean it does jack **** or that for example it can hurt him but its not as easy for example SBP is resistant to brute force but not invulnerable? So far it seems immunity, until we see magic do some actual direct damage to him.

Laminator_X
Has he had thusfar a direct confrontation with anybody like Zatana or Dr. Fate?

Alfheim
Originally posted by Laminator_X
Has he had thusfar a direct confrontation with anybody like Zatana or Dr. Fate?

I think he captured an alterante Zatanna and used her to torture Mxy, so I guess there must have been some confrontation, but I dont know any details.

Originally posted by Juntai
Superman can willpower through his way through magic as well, just shrugging off it's effects.

hmmm thats just like everything else really.


Originally posted by Juntai
So far it seems immunity, until we see magic do some actual direct damage to him.

It seems? Well it seems then that if somebody used magic to fight SBP he would have to use it indirectly eg vastly incraesing their strength

Juntai
Originally posted by Alfheim
I think he captured an alterante Zatanna and used her to torture Mxy, so I guess there must have been some confrontation, but I dont know any details.



hmmm thats just like everything else really.




It seems? Well it seems then that if somebody used magic to fight SBP he would have to use it indirectly eg vastly incraesing their strength Black Adam tried charging up his punches with magic, and his strength is magical as it is. Prime said it tickled.

And yes, Supes does seem to 'will' his way through nearly any obstacle. Even godly magic has proven ineffectual against him once he presses full on.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Juntai
Black Adam tried charging up his punches with magic, and his strength is magical as it is. Prime said it tickled.



Yes I think I saw scans of that. When Black Adam punched SBP you could see energy coming out of his fists so its like his punches were magical. This I think is different from somebody like Juggernaut, hes powered by magic but his punches are physical, from what I gathered on the scans Adams punches were emitting energy.

Also bare in mind it might not even have tickled because of the magic but because its was not powerful enough.

Martian_mind
IIRC Zauriels sword did nothing...

Alfheim
Originally posted by Martian_mind
IIRC Zauriels sword did nothing...

Could it be argued that the magic wasnt powerful enough?

Martian_mind
Originally posted by Alfheim
Could it be argued that the magic wasnt powerful enough?

Well,his sword was forged in heaven.....

But i guess it may have lacked the power.

Soljer
Originally posted by Martian_mind
Well,his sword was forged in heaven.....

But i guess it may have lacked the power.

His sword or DCU heaven?

shifty.

Juntai
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yes I think I saw scans of that. When Black Adam punched SBP you could see energy coming out of his fists so its like his punches were magical. This I think is different from somebody like Juggernaut, hes powered by magic but his punches are physical, from what I gathered on the scans Adams punches were emitting energy.

Also bare in mind it might not even have tickled because of the magic but because its was not powerful enough. Adam's strength is imbued from magic as well. I already said that.

Galan007
I believe that the only Supermen confirmed on panel as 'immune' to magic are Prime, and Superman 1M...

However,
it could also be assumed that every version of Superman from the 67th century onward, would be immune to magic as well.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Juntai
Adam's strength is imbued from magic as well. I already said that.

From my understanding the reason why you brought up Black Adam was because it was refering to a question about the indirect use of magic ie giving yourself superhuman strength with magic. The point I was trying to make was that charging your fists with energy is not indirect use of magic but direct. I know he has superhuman strength with magic but I thought I was refering to him using magic to charge his punches.

Originally posted by Galan007
I believe that the only Supermen confirmed on panel as 'immune' to magic are Prime, and Superman 1M...

However,
it could also be assumed that every version of Superman from the 67th century onward, would be immune to magic as well.

Hmm when you think about it they're probably immune to everything. I would suspect that they would be immune to brute force, psionics, energy attacks etc but only very, very powerful attacks could damage them. So maybe really and truly his resistance to magic is just an overall resistance and toughness.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Well,his sword was forged in heaven.....

But i guess it may have lacked the power.

Yeah but that doesnt always mean a damn thing. Some characters are gods and they pawned by humans.

Juntai
Originally posted by Alfheim
From my understanding the reason why you brought up Black Adam was because it was refering to a question about the indirect use of magic ie giving yourself superhuman strength with magic. The point I was trying to make was that charging your fists with energy is not indirect use of magic but direct.



Hmm when you think about it they're probably immune to everything. I would suspect that they would be immune to brute force, psionics, energy attacks etc but only very, very powerful attacks could damage them. However he is also magically imbued with his strength as well.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Juntai
However he is also magically imbued with his strength as well.

Yeah I know, so it could be argued that powerful magic could make you sufficently powerful to beat SBP via converting into superhuman strength but if the magic was used in the form of a blast or something silmilar it would not work.

Juntai
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah I know, so it could be argued that powerful magic could make you sufficently powerful to beat SBP via converting into superhuman strength but if the magic was used in the form of a blast or something silmilar it would not work. Except, that's exactly what happened, and to no effect- on panel.

Galan007
Originally posted by Alfheim
So maybe really and truly his resistance to magic is just an overall resistance and toughness. Not when it was stated that said version(s) of Superman are specifically immune to magic.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Galan007
Not when stated that said version(s) of Superman are specifically immune to magic.

I knew you were gonna say that wink I know and ive read the scans that state this. Im looking at the reasons why he could be immune. From my understanding the supermans you are talking about are alot more powerful than other versions so the resistance could be due to their power.

The scans just state that he is resistant but not why. Of course I could be wrong and its not clear cut but I think it could be argued that its a possibility.

Originally posted by Juntai
Except, that's exactly what happened, and to no effect- on panel.

Yes but it could be argued that the reason why it didnt work was because the magic was not powerful enough. Other characters have been at least been able to use strength give SBP trouble, for example I think two superman were able to push SBP into a red sun. Im pretty sure somebody in the DC uinverse could use magic to replicate that strength level. Hell Sodam Yat didnt beat SBP but he gave him hell before he got poisoned why couldnt somebody use magic to imbue them with that much strength?

Juntai
Because they said so?

Alfheim
Because they said so what?

Also I did an edit.

Galan007
Originally posted by Alfheim
I knew you were gonna say that wink I know and ive read the scans that state this. Im looking at the reasons why he could be immune. From my understanding the supermans you are talking about are alot more powerful than other versions so the resistance could be due to their power.

The scans just state that he is resistant but not why. Of course I could be wrong and its not clear cut but I think it could be argued that its a possibility. Prime was just highly resistant to magic, pre-Guardian-kamikaze-attack -- but once that happened, he apparently became completely immune to it...

There's no telling what will happen to this immunity once the extra power wears off though.

As far as other Supermen go,
every Superman from the 67th century, up to at least the 853rd century -- are immune to magic, due to the marriage to the Imp Queen.

Juntai
And the ION powering up a daxamite, was insane levels of powers that I'm quite sure he was using to boost his physical prowess to insane levels, especially when Daxamites are up in power with Kryptonians as it is. Not many characters if at all could probably replicate that kind of boost.

Until Superman gets really pissed of course. lol..

I'm sure he'll eventually be defeated, but so far he's cut swath across everything and everyone thrown at him with relative ease. It's quite clear he's in a class of his own.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Galan007
Prime was just highly resistant to magic, pre-Guardian-kamikaze-attack -- but once that happened, he apparently became completely immune to it...

There's no telling what will happen to this immunity once the extra power wears off though.

Ok.

Originally posted by Galan007

As far as other Supermen go,
every Superman from the 67th century, up to at least the 853rd century -- are immune to magic, due to the marriage to the Imp Queen.

Thats not suprising when you think about it as far as I know imps are immune to everything. Hell I think I saw in the thread that Mxy coudlnt even kill himself. So its like nobody can kill them and they cant kill themselves they're immune to everything.

Originally posted by Juntai
And the ION powering up a daxamite, was insane levels of powers that I'm quite sure he was using to boost his physical prowess to insane levels, especially when Daxamites are up in power with Kryptonians as it is. Not many characters if at all could probably replicate that kind of boost.

Until Superman gets really pissed of course. lol..

I'm sure he'll eventually be defeated, but so far he's cut swath across everything and everyone thrown at him with relative ease. It's quite clear he's in a class of his own.

Well yeah ok sure hes in a class of his own....anyway you get my point? Not denying he is a badass but it just seems its all relative hes resistant to magic but loads of other stuff as well, its just seems that he could be beaten via magic but it depends on how powerful the character is and how it is used.

Galan007
Originally posted by Alfheim
Thats not suprising when you think about it as far as I know imps are immune to everything. Hell I think I saw in the thread that Mxy coudlnt even kill himself. So its like nobody can kill them and they cant kill themselves they're immune to everything. Not all Imps -- just Mxy.

Per Mike Carlin in "Man of Steel #75",
Mxy cannot die, period.

This was evident once again in Countdown #23, when Prime tried to kill a powerless Mxy -- only to find out he simply couldn't.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Galan007
Not all Imps -- just Mxy.

Per Mike Carlin in "Man of Steel #75",
Mxy cannot die, period.

This was evident once again in Countdown #23, when Prime tried to kill a powerless Mxy -- only to find out he simply couldn't.

Ok you sure though because I thought Mxy was a standard version of his race. The other imps I guess though are extremely powerful so that could still explain the resistance. So Mxy is like the superman of imps?

Juntai
I think you should just start reading DC comics. Instead of bs-ing your way through conversations about characters and stories you have no clue about. smile

Alfheim
*sigh*

Juntai
Originally posted by Alfheim
Happy now? thumb up Well you're apperently interested in the characters a lot, and like to get into deep discussions about the characters/stories.. I just figure it helps when you know what you're talking about- ie; reading the source material.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Juntai
Well you're apperently interested in the characters a lot, and like to get into deep discussions about the characters/stories.. I just figure it helps when you know what you're talking about- ie; reading the source material.

Yeah and i'll read it when im ready. Obvoulsy though I have some knowledge of the characters. This is just a discussion forum and I wanted a discussion, not need to be rude about it. no expression

Galan007
Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok you sure though because I thought Mxy was a standard version of his race. The other imps I guess though are extremely powerful so that could still explain the resistance. So Mxy is like the superman of imps? 'Standard version'? huh

Do you not know much about Mxy, or what?

Alfheim
Originally posted by Galan007
'Standard version'? huh

Do you not know much about Mxy, or what?

No I dont thats why I said I 'thought'. no expression

Soljer
Originally posted by Alfheim
Obvoulsy though I have some knowledge of the characters.

laughing out loud rolling on floor laughing laughing laughing rolling on floor laughing laughing out loud

@ wikipedia.

smile.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Soljer
laughing out loud rolling on floor laughing laughing laughing rolling on floor laughing laughing out loud

@ wikipedia.

smile.

Yeah basically wiki and respect threads. You can get basic info on characters but not in depth.

Galan007
Originally posted by Alfheim
No I dont thats why I said I 'thought'. no expression I'll throw out a couple factoids for ya... smile

Ultimator is a being who encompases ALL there is -- it destroyed dimensions 9-6 -- it was eating 5-D Imps like candy... Mxy, , not only avoided absorption, but took a blast to the face from this creature, with no ill-effect.

Mxy is the only character in comics I know of, which was banned from death by a member of the DC staff (Carlin).

Mxy is the only character I've seen not only breach the 4th wall, but visit the 'real' DC staff, punch a few of them in the face, and take a script/draft for an upcoming comic, just to see what happens next.

You ever seen any other being litterally retcon specific characters, with a word? Mxy has.

In fact,
Just read Emperor Joker, and World's Funnest -- then you'll have some sort of bearing. smile

darthgoober
edit

WrathfulDwarf
Originally posted by Alfheim
Im quite ignorant on this subject but I would like some info. Whats the deal with Superman and magic? Some verisons of superman are more vulnerable to magic than others. SBP for example does not have a weakness to magic, does this mean he is completely immune or does it simply mean hes not taken out so easily eg SBP does not have a wekaness for getting punched in the face but a sufficently powerful punch will hurt him.

What versions of Superman are completely immune to magic and can magic be used in a different way to hurt them eg a magical bolt will do nothing but if you use magic to give yourself superhuman strength your strength can damage them.

With Superman it varies how he will react to magic. We do know that The Wizard Shazam's magic have affected him. It takes quite a skillful mage to injure a cryptonian.

I think SBP somehow either inherit/stole/gain some of the Anti-Monitor powers from the Sinestro War. Which may have unlocked his greatest power essence. Magic is very sneaky in the DCU. Anyone can perform magic but to trully master it requires years of experience. Case in point Zatanna.

Rutherford
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
With Superman it varies how he will react to magic. We do know that The Wizard Shazam's magic have affected him. It takes quite a skillful mage to injure a cryptonian.

I think SBP somehow either inherit/stole/gain some of the Anti-Monitor powers from the Sinestro War. Which may have unlocked his greatest power essence. Magic is very sneaky in the DCU. Anyone can perform magic but to trully master it requires years of experience. Case in point Zatanna.

What's a cryptonian?

TricksterPriest
A Crypt Lord from the planet Krypton. shifty

Alf, you know Impossible Man? Well, there's a definite possibility that he in fact, is Mr. Mxy.

Galan007
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Alf, you know Impossible Man? Well, there's a definite possibility that he in fact, is Mr. Mxy. Nah..

Marvel acknowledges the fact that Mxy has/can enter their company -- but they are also acknowleged as completely seperate entities, .

manjaro
ppl. please stop overthinking this...SMP is immune to magic simply becuase he is from a universe where magic doesnt exist, the sameway that knite from mainstrea, DCU doesnt affect him

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by manjaro
ppl. please stop overthinking this...SMP is immune to magic simply becuase he is from a universe where magic doesnt exist

That's ridiculous and stupid. Not that a lot of stuff about Kryptonians isn't ridiculous and stupid but that simply doesn't make sense.

Soljer
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
That's ridiculous and stupid. Not that a lot of stuff about Kryptonians isn't ridiculous and stupid but that simply doesn't make sense.

Even in the scope of Kryptonians, does it make sense that only Kryptonite Radiation from their own universe can affect them?

It's possible that magic follows the same rule - and since there is no magic in his universe....

King_Mungi
Originally posted by Galan007
Nah..

Marvel acknowledges the fact that Mxy has/can enter their company -- but they are also acknowleged as completely seperate entities, .

shifty



....Your right though, but still interesting wink

Doctor-Alvis
Originally posted by Soljer
Even in the scope of Kryptonians, does it make sense that only Kryptonite Radiation from their own universe can affect them?

It's possible that magic follows the same rule - and since there is no magic in his universe....
Not really. I mean... unless his physiology is different in such a way that the normal kryptonite does nothing. The weakness would still be there though and an energy manipulator could find it and apply it.

The magic thing doesn't really make sense. Magic fire still burns things, right? Then again, magic doesn't need to make sense.

On the other hand, maybe SBP is a displaced anomaly. Maybe his body still functions by the rules of his universe. Maybe the kryptonite radiation that affects him cannot be replicated outside his universe due to its differing laws of physics. Maybe magic doesn't work because because he is a foreign body in their universe and it simply doesn't apply to him. Maybe because of this... "filter" of sorts, a 10 point punch translates to a 1 point nudge. Maybe the amount of energy in his universe is much higher. Maybe like that comic someone mentioned the heroes visited "our" universe but their powers were weaker because our universe has less energy. Maybe that is why he's so powerful. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

Eunno, I haven't even read it. I just like making theories.

No! I broke my maybe chain!

Juntai
Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
Not really. I mean... unless his physiology is different in such a way that the normal kryptonite does nothing. The weakness would still be there though and an energy manipulator could find it and apply it.

The magic thing doesn't really make sense. Magic fire still burns things, right? Then again, magic doesn't need to make sense.

On the other hand, maybe SBP is a displaced anomaly. Maybe his body still functions by the rules of his universe. Maybe the kryptonite radiation that affects him cannot be replicated outside his universe due to its differing laws of physics. Maybe magic doesn't work because because he is a foreign body in their universe and it simply doesn't apply to him. Maybe because of this... "filter" of sorts, a 10 point punch translates to a 1 point nudge. Maybe the amount of energy in his universe is much higher. Maybe like that comic someone mentioned the heroes visited "our" universe but their powers were weaker because our universe has less energy. Maybe that is why he's so powerful. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

Eunno, I haven't even read it. I just like making theories.

No! I broke my maybe chain! Or maybe he just believes he is, and so he is, like Superman does.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Soljer
Even in the scope of Kryptonians, does it make sense that only Kryptonite Radiation from their own universe can affect them?

It's possible that magic follows the same rule - and since there is no magic in his universe....

But characters from different universes have used magic on one another in the past.

Doctor-Alvis
Originally posted by Juntai
Or maybe he just believes he is, and so he is, like Superman does.
True. That would be a comical change in the power description. "Can do anything he believes he can do."

Avlon
Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
True. That would be a comical change in the power description. "Can do anything he believes he can do."

It's actually been mentioned about twice on panel that I remember.

To the original thread question: Supes has decent resistance to magic. Disciple had enough power to revert wonder woman back to clay and turn Zauriel into a cherub effortlessly. Superman grew facial hair and was the least affected by this guys powerful magic. The rest of the jla were seriously devolved.

Also, Phantom stranger recently "gifted" Superman with more magic resistance. How permanent that may be...I have no clue, but it's there. Superman has also been spending quite a bit with Zatanna in the last year. It seems he has taken a keen interest in learning more about magics rules.

Primes resistance to it seems top notch.

Doctor-Alvis
I wasn't talking about his magic resistance. Just that it would be a goofy thing to see a character can do anything they believe they can do.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
I wasn't talking about his magic resistance. Just that it would be a goofy thing to see a character can do anything they believe they can do.

Worked in the Matrix.

Doctor-Alvis
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Worked in the Matrix.
Least. Imaginative. Defenders of humanity. Ever.

Entity
Here's what I don't get why is it kryptonite radiation from that universe doesn't effect him but he sure seems to get a killer buzz form that same universe yellow sun radiation? erm

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