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Both of these guys could beat a regular Superman with ease, who would win if they fought in space?

ermm

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
ermm


Is this a bad fight? You do realize that I am referring to the evil Silver Surfer from another reality right? He was able to catch a planet breaking punch from Gladiator with a smile.

and superman prime practically did nothing to destroy a planet destroying entity... i cant call it as i've seen sod of all from both

some SMP feats?

I'm leaning towards Surfer until convinced otherwise. too many powers, too powerful and with the ruthlessness to use them to the maximum.

Sbp was able to take on every top tier on dc earth and come out on top,flew thru the anti monitor and threw him across the solar system/galaxy dont rem which,took blasts from 3 guardians and only got bfred by one of them using all their energy....and nows hes powered up even further from then...silver surfer would get stomped seriously.

classic surfer owns superman prime

Originally posted by IceMan2008
classic surfer owns superman prime
Ummm...no 616 nor exiles surfer is beating smp.

regular Surfer's taken a beating from creatures far above Guardians, and survived to complete his mission...

SBP does sound powerful, but more so physically than anything else. what top tiers did he beat? I don't know if Exiles Surfer could replicate the feat but I'm certain a regular 616 Surfer would rip through GLs, Flashes and Supermans without much trouble if he wanted to. Surfer has the powers and the speed to accomplish that at the very least, imo.

Surfer's also gone toe to toe with creatures that have dominion over their own universes, taking everything UniLord could throw at him (including smashing his body to bits, several times) and carrying on the fight and then stealing and absorbing all his powers out of spite. that's the kind of dynamic power Surfer has.

oh and he did safely digest and contain all the power of the Oan central battery too, if that helps to give some kind of reference point for his skills/powers as they would apply to DCU.


need more info on SMP before I'm swayed.

Originally posted by IceMan2008
classic surfer owns superman prime

Originally posted by janus77
regular Surfer's taken a beating from creatures far above Guardians, and survived to complete his mission...

SBP does sound powerful, but more so physically than anything else. what top tiers did he beat? I don't know if Exiles Surfer could replicate the feat but I'm certain a regular 616 Surfer would rip through GLs, Flashes and Supermans without much trouble if he wanted to. Surfer has the powers and the speed to accomplish that at the very least, imo.

Surfer's also gone toe to toe with creatures that have dominion over their own universes, taking everything UniLord could throw at him (including smashing his body to bits, several times) and carrying on the fight and then stealing and absorbing all his powers out of spite. that's the kind of dynamic power Surfer has.

oh and he did safely digest and contain all the power of the Oan central battery too, if that helps to give some kind of reference point for his skills/powers as they would apply to DCU.


need more info on SMP before I'm swayed.
Surfer has been wrecked by people far less powerful then guardians or sbp or did we forget that surfer has flatout admited thor is stronger than him,and no surfer wouldnt tear thru all of dc earth including 3 kryptonians and 4-5 top tier gls,and I dont think there is any canon crossover with surfer containing the oan battery,surfer has a problem with top tier brawlers always has smp is so far above top tier its ridiculous.

that contention (Surfer being less powerful than Thor) is tenuous at best, the scan needs to be read in context.
there's also a scan where Thor tells the Avengers that they all (Thor included) could have died from a blast that Surfer fired at them only as a warning.

Surfer is in another league, higher, compared to Thor. imo of course. and his period on Earth, cut off from the Power Cosmic (by Galactus) isn't the reference point for Surfer vs SMP, let alone Exiles Surfer.


but back to your first comment, nobody would deny that Surfer has lost to far weaker opponents, it's what he and (to an unforgivably greater extent) Galactus does . that's still not going to detract from their fullest abilities, though.

Galactus doesn't cease to be able to consume the whole universe and mash up Celestials, just because he ran from a fight with Ego/Thor. and Surfer doesn't cease to put down whole armies of Skrulls just because he got arm-barred by Black Panther and struck by a lightning bolt from Storm.


anyway, as I said. I need more info/evidence and better argument before I'm swayed.

Originally posted by IceMan2008
classic surfer owns superman prime

Originally posted by Tony Stark

Surfer gets beat by thor,guess whos several leagues above thor.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Surfer gets beat by thor,guess whos several leagues above thor.
When did Exiles Surfer get beaten by Thor?

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Surfer gets beat by thor,guess whos several leagues above thor.


Squirrel Girl?

Originally posted by Tony Stark
Nice to see you agree with a troll.

Originally posted by Priest
When did Exiles Surfer get beaten by Thor? Like never.


SS wins this fights. Not only coz of his powers but this Surfer isn't holding back at all, agressive, wants to kill.

Prime.

Originally posted by janus77
616 Surfer would rip through GLs, Flashes and Supermans without much trouble if he wanted to

Saved.

The Surfer killed a Gladiator with no feats.

Cool.

Superman Prime wins.

his surfboard ripped through Gladiator without any effort, why would I retract that statement?

Surfer's faster and far more powerful than any of them. it's not too difficult to see how he'd dispose of superman or a few GLs, and as for Flash, what's Flash going to do to someone who can even out speed him and can manipulate the very atoms of the suite that Flash wears, if need be?

If silver surfer is fighting to his full potential he can beat nearly anybody. He does not have a limited set of powers as they just add new ones whwnever they feel like. I am a big thor fan but thor reallly should nnot stand a chance against an all out surfer. The surfer was even able to synthesize the odinforce. He has got like a millionways of killing almost anyone he fights. Even prime goes down to an all out surfer. As for rippiong through gls flashes and supermen, exiles surfer could do that. Superman no matter how many of him can never be a problem for the surfer, neither can any amount flashes. As for the gls he would have a little bit of trouble but considering this is an all out surfer he beats them as well.

We don't know how powerful this Surfer was.

All we know is that he killed a couple of imperial guardians, who have absolutely no feats at all. This entire fight is based on speculation :/

Originally posted by llagrok
We don't know how powerful this Surfer was.

All we know is that he killed a couple of imperial guardians, who have absolutely no feats at all. This entire fight is based on speculation :/ Canon fodder you say?

This version of exiles Surfer destroyed that universe's Earth including all it's inhabitants (which would include that Universe's Thor, Hulk, Sentry, etc.), stopped a full confidence Gladiator punch without moving an inch and sliced him in half, and had that Universe's Galactus running scared of him.

It's basically the MU-616 version of Surfer but instead of being a pacifist, he was a military scientist and was utterly ruthless. He also seemed to have a power level higher than MU-616 Surfer did, as a single energy blast was blowing right through the Shi-ar guardians like it was nothing.

Originally posted by Kutulu
This version of exiles Surfer destroyed that universe's Earth including all it's inhabitants (which would include that Universe's Thor, Hulk, Sentry, etc.), stopped a full confidence Gladiator punch without moving an inch and sliced him in half, and had that Universe's Galactus running scared of him.

It's basically the MU-616 version of Surfer but instead of being a pacifist, he was a military scientist and was utterly ruthless. He also seemed to have a power level higher than MU-616 Surfer did, as a single energy blast was blowing right through the Shi-ar guardians like it was nothing.

And what feats do these guys have?

You have no proof that these guys are equal to their 616 counterparts.

so we're basing it off of a Surfer who is out to kill, who clearly has powers that are at the least on par with a regular Surfer. it's why I'm using regular Surfer feats as well.


Surfer's told Gladiator before that he could kill him with but a thought. and Exiles proved it. deliciously.

furthermore, going back to the Thor >= Surfer argument, I'd say Surfer's way more durable than Thor as Surfer can take an onslaught from a Savage Hulk, without the slightest bit of trouble. the same cannot be said for Thor, not in the least.

Originally posted by janus77
so we're basing it off of a Surfer who is out to kill, who clearly has powers that are at the least on par with a regular Surfer. it's why I'm using regular Surfer feats as well.


Surfer's told Gladiator before that he could kill him with but a thought. and Exiles proved it. deliciously.

furthermore, going back to the Thor >= Surfer argument, I'd say Surfer's way more durable than Thor as Surfer can take an onslaught from a Savage Hulk, without the slightest bit of trouble. the same cannot be said for Thor, not in the least.

Clearly? Please.

Once again, I ask for proof that these characters are as strong as their 616 counterparts.

Originally posted by llagrok
And what feats do these guys have?

You have no proof that these guys are equal to their 616 counterparts.
they rip apart with great aplomb .

come on, he spanked Galactus, give the man props!

Originally posted by llagrok
Clearly? Please.

Once again, I ask for proof that these characters are as strong as their 616 counterparts.
the only way to do that, if you won't look at the collateral damage he inflicted, is to have 616 characters face off against the Exiles characters that Surfer destroyed. since that's not happening, you may remain on the fence.

but, by the same token, you can't really give me any proof that SMP is say, more powerful than a pissed off Thor. 'cos they've not fought any benchmark characters yet .

Originally posted by janus77
they rip apart with great aplomb .

come on, he spanked Galactus, give the man props!

What feats does this Galactus have?

Alright I just looked through the comics of both characters again and Prime has more feats and he is basically more powerful than just an alternate Surfer. Also llagrok cleared it there is no info on how strong he is compared to the 616.

The problem with alternate versions are that I like them too much, but it's true there is no proof on his power level.

he created and rejuvenated worlds, that's at least on a par with something that 616 Surfer has done (when he brought a world to life, inadvertently whilst attempting suicide) .

Originally posted by janus77
he created and rejuvenated worlds, that's at least on a par with something that 616 Surfer has done (when he brought a world to life, inadvertently whilst attempting suicide) .

Eeh, The Exiles Surfer from Exiles 87 and 88?

He simply attacked Galctus, that's pretty much it. He didn't even stand a chance against The Bronze Sabretooth....

Originally posted by Kutulu
This version of exiles Surfer destroyed that universe's Earth including all it's inhabitants (which would include that Universe's Thor, Hulk, Sentry, etc.), stopped a full confidence Gladiator punch without moving an inch and sliced him in half, and had that Universe's Galactus running scared of him.

It's basically the MU-616 version of Surfer but instead of being a pacifist, he was a military scientist and was utterly ruthless. He also seemed to have a power level higher than MU-616 Surfer did, as a single energy blast was blowing right through the Shi-ar guardians like it was nothing.

Wait Big G was scared of surfer?

Originally posted by janus77
he created and rejuvenated worlds, that's at least on a par with something that 616 Surfer has done (when he brought a world to life, inadvertently whilst attempting suicide) . Is that proof that the universe is anything better or equal to 616?? Nope.

That's what Surfer gets : http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/8997/z000fz294il0.gif

Originally posted by Alfheim
Wait Big G was scared of surfer?

That version of Silver Surfer had Big G on the brink of death and he just barely escaped with his life.

Also something of note - this version of the Surfer didn't weaken Gladiator first, his surfboard ripped through Gladiator without effort in one shot, cutting Gladiator in half.

This version of the Surfer's board was shaped like a giant razorblade, and given that Surfer's board can attain FTL speeds with incredible ease, you can imagine the damage it would do.

Originally posted by Kutulu
That version of Silver Surfer had Big G on the brink of death and he just barely escaped with his life.

....damn.....dunno what to say really.

Originally posted by Kutulu
That version of Silver Surfer had Big G on the brink of death and he just barely escaped with his life.

So?

What's impressive about trying to kill the "Restorer of worlds" ?

All you have is speculation.

Originally posted by Alfheim
....damn.....dunno what to say really. Chokeslam. uhuh

Originally posted by llagrok
So?

What's impressive about trying to kill the "Restorer of worlds" ?

All you have is speculation.


waitwaitwaitwaitwait.....I dont get it? Did he say what I think he just said? Is he joking.....am I confused.

Originally posted by Rewmac
Chokeslam. uhuh

?

Originally posted by Alfheim
....damn.....dunno what to say really.

Well this version of Big G was a pacifist though, but still this version of Surfer was blasting holes in him, one-shotting the Shi-ar imperial guard like nothing, etc.. Basically the only way he lost was from Sabretooth getting amped up tremendously by Galactus and killing this version of Surfer. So in other words, plot device was the only way for him to go down, nobody in that universe was able to stand against him.

It may be so that the alternate universes have weaker versions of Earth's heroes, this is true, but still - killing every hero on Marvel Earth and then blowing up the planet says a lot to his power level. It was clearly beyond MU-616's Surfer by a fairly large margin, and this version was extremely ruthless. The attitude alone would make a difference in battle.

Originally posted by Alfheim
waitwaitwaitwaitwait.....I dont get it? Did he say what I think he just said? Is he joking.....am I confused.

?

This alternate universe had Galactus as a restorer of worlds, he was going to planet ravaged by a cosmic blight and restoring life to them.

The reason Surfer was attacking him was to try and steal his power so that he could restore his homeworld, which was destroyed by technology that he had developed as a military scientist. Galactus refused to restore Surfers' world (since Galactus of that universe was only restoring worlds that had died from the cosmic blight, not man-made disaster), so Surfer went after him to try and steal his power.

I know.

I have the comics.

I just don't find either impressive, we have no idea how strong this Gladiator was, nor we know if the Surfer actually fought every hero on Earth. All we know is that he killed some random Imperial guardians + ronan, both whom are without feats. When the Surfer fought someone else with the power cosmic, he lost.

Ok that does explain a bit but if he can pawn Glads like that Exiles Surfer is at least Thanos/Tyrant level.

Eventhough this guy was a pacifist he must have been still pretty powerful. Pacifist as in only attacks in self-defence?

I dunno man I think we copuld guess how powerful Glads was....I mean hell he looked like 616 Glads and had the same powers.......

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok that does explain a bit but if he can pawn Glads like that Exiles Surfer is at least Thanos/Tyrant level.

Eventhough this guy was a pacifist he must have been still pretty powerful. Pacifist as in only attacks in self-defence?

Eeeh?...

He never fought anyone from the 616 verse, but lost to Sabretooth with the PC. How can you gauge his power like that?

Originally posted by Alfheim
I dunno man I think we copuld guess how powerful Glads was....I mean hell he looked like 616 Glads and had the same powers.......

Proof that they had the same powers.

All I know is I would definitely like to read about this Surfer. He sounds awesome. If anyone knows where i can download this pm me please. I love Priest's sig. Surfer looks very badass.

Originally posted by llagrok
Eeeh?...

He never fought anyone from the 616 verse, but lost to Sabretooth with the PC. How can you gauge his power like that?


No but why would Glads be any different from 616 version. Magento and Wolverine in Exiles didnt seem that much different but they were both evil.

Originally posted by llagrok

Proof that they had the same powers.

Well for startes he was flying around in space and he said something like "when im confident I cant be beaten.", that implies his powers are still confidence based.

Thor may be as powerful as the Surfer. Or, potentially have access to more power than Surfer, but it has to be through creative means.

He has to find ways of tapping it through Mjolnir, or other magics, etc.

Surfer has constant access to his power, which is the universe-filling power cosmic. He has a direct channel to his power, and the only thing that has ever held Surfer back was himself, his conscience and his unwillingness to hurt his opponents.

All out, Power to power, Surfer should win.

If he tries to go strictly h2h, SMP may be able to manhandle Surfer.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok that does explain a bit but if he can pawn Glads like that Exiles Surfer is at least Thanos/Tyrant level.

Eventhough this guy was a pacifist he must have been still pretty powerful. Pacifist as in only attacks in self-defence?

Yeah basically this Galactus was a pacifist. He was the opposite of 616-Galactus, instead of eating planets he restored life to planets.

As for Exiles Surfer, picture Surfer with a power level along the lines of Thanos, and make him totally ruthless, replace peaceful scientist knowledge with military scientist and combat training, and give him a surfboard that's a razoblade and you have the Exiles version of Surfer.

Killing off planet Earth along with all of it's superpowered inhabitants is a good feat no matter what universe you are in, and standing toe to toe with Galactus and winning is also a good feat, no matter which version of him it is. One-shotting Gladiator who looked to have the exact same powerset as 616-Gladiator is a major feat no matter what universe you are in. The reason why writers put these events in there is for a frame of reference so you can see how powerful the character is.

Alf: You clearly haven't read any Exiles comics....

You couldn't tell that a lot of characters were completely different? Unless you have some actual proof, you can't walk around saying they're as tough as their 616 counterparts.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Page17_Exiles88.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Page18_Exiles88.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Page19_Exiles88.jpg

Originally posted by Kutulu
Yeah basically this Galactus was a pacifist. He was the opposite of 616-Galactus, instead of eating planets he restored life to planets.

As for Exiles Surfer, picture Surfer with a power level along the lines of Thanos, and make him totally ruthless, replace peaceful scientist knowledge with military scientist and combat training, and give him a surfboard that's a razoblade and you have the Exiles version of Surfer.

Killing off planet Earth along with all of it's superpowered inhabitants is a good feat no matter what universe you are in, and standing toe to toe with Galactus and winning is also a good feat, no matter which version of him it is. One-shotting Gladiator who looked to have the exact same powerset as 616-Gladiator is a major feat no matter what universe you are in. The reason why writers put these events in there is for a frame of reference so you can see how powerful the character is.

SPECULATION ALERT.

All they said was that Earth had been destroyed.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Exiles0862006Team-DCP23.jpg

Originally posted by Kutulu
Yeah basically this Galactus was a pacifist. He was the opposite of 616-Galactus, instead of eating planets he restored life to planets.

As for Exiles Surfer, picture Surfer with a power level along the lines of Thanos, and make him totally ruthless, replace peaceful scientist knowledge with military scientist and combat training, and give him a surfboard that's a razoblade and you have the Exiles version of Surfer.

Killing off planet Earth along with all of it's superpowered inhabitants is a good feat no matter what universe you are in, and standing toe to toe with Galactus and winning is also a good feat, no matter which version of him it is. One-shotting Gladiator who looked to have the exact same powerset as 616-Gladiator is a major feat no matter what universe you are in. The reason why writers put these events in there is for a frame of reference so you can see how powerful the character is. You might have a point there and yeah destroying planets are feats true, but SP can do that too we know it and standing up to Galactus (unknown power level), beating the Imperial Guard (unknown power levels) isn't really a true feat to go by.

Originally posted by quanchi112
All I know is I would definitely like to read about this Surfer. He sounds awesome. If anyone knows where i can download this pm me please. I love Priest's sig. Surfer looks very badass.

Originally posted by Roldz
Here you go but dont really know if its the right place to post this but what the heck
Exiles 87
http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1bc0.jpg
http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2jp1.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ssravagerpi1.jpg
http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=4vi7.jpg
http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=5wc9.jpg
http://img71.imageshack.us/my.php?image=6ll0.jpg
http://img164.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ssravager2ql6.jpg
http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=8lm4.jpg
http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=9xr2.jpg
http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10bt7.jpg
http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11ms6.jpg
http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12eb5.jpg
http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=13bq7.jpg
http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=14dg9.jpg
http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=15dj0.jpg
http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=16ay0.jpg
http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17ey5.jpg
http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=18td0.jpg
http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=19pg8.jpg
http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20mq8.jpg
http://img119.imageshack.us/my.php?image=21wi8.jpg

Exile 88
http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1my3.jpg
http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2xl0.jpg
http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3sf3.jpg
http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=4wd0.jpg
http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=5pz0.jpg
http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=6hc7.jpg
http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=7xm8.jpg
http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=8dx0.jpg
http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=9iq4.jpg
http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10yh9.jpg
http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11at4.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12za1.jpg
http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=13rw7.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=14de0.jpg
http://img138.imageshack.us/my.php?image=15ng9.jpg
http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=16pe9.jpg
http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17ik4.jpg
http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=18kp8.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=19fo3.jpg
http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20gm2.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=21pg8.jpg

On a side note, this whole thing where character showings are discounted when they are from alternate realities is not always a solid way to look at it.

A lot of these alternate reality characters ARE the same power-sets as their 616 counterparts. So, they shouldn't be instantly discarded.

Originally posted by llagrok
Alf: You clearly haven't read any Exiles comics....

You couldn't tell that a lot of characters were completely different? Unless you have some actual proof, you can't walk around saying they're as tough as their 616 counterparts.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Page17_Exiles88.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Page18_Exiles88.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Page19_Exiles88.jpg

I dont see how that changes anything. Yes I could tell that some characters were completely different...but not Gladiator.

If im going to bet that an alternate version of Glads is the same as the 616 version and that alternate version looks exactly or almost exactly and seems to have the same powers.....im betting that he has the same powerset. Could be wrong but thats the most likely conclusion.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I dont see how that changes anything. Yes I could tell that some characters were completely different...but not Gladiator.

If im going to bet that an alternate version of Glads is the same as the 616 version and that alternate version looks exactly or almost exactly and seems to have the same powers.....im betting that he has the same powerset. Could be wrong but thats the most likely conclusion.

He can still look the same and have a different powerset....

Originally posted by Rewmac
You might have a point there and yeah destroying planets are feats true, but SP can do that too we know it and standing up to Galactus (unknown power level), beating the Imperial Guard (unknown power levels) isn't really a true feat to go by.

If a character in an alternate universe displays the exact same powers (mentions confidence, flying around in space unaided, etc.), is in the same position (in Gladiator's case, head of the Shi-ar imperial guard), then we can assume he has the same powers.

If a character is presented differently, such as a different costume, attitude, or displays different powers, then yeah you can say he's not the same. In this case Gladiator was the exact same as his 616 counterpart for all intensive purposes. Exiles has shown characters with different clothing, different attitudes, etc., such as a hippie Hulk with a big peace sign on his jeanjacket. This isn't one of those cases; Gladiator was presented exactly the same as the 616 version, except maybe slightly more muscular looking.

Originally posted by llagrok
He can still look the same and have a different powerset....

I know but whats the most likely conclusion? Its not just abiut looking the same its what he said "when im fully confident...blah blah", this implies that he has the same or similar powers

Originally posted by Kutulu
If a character in an alternate universe displays the exact same powers (mentions confidence, flying around in space unaided, etc.), is in the same position (in Gladiator's case, head of the Shi-ar imperial guard), then we can assume he has the same powers.

If a character is presented differently, such as a different costume, attitude, or displays different powers, then yeah you can say he's not the same. In this case Gladiator was the exact same as his 616 counterpart for all intensive purposes. Exiles has shown characters with different clothing, different attitudes, etc., such as a hippie Hulk with a big peace sign on his jeanjacket. This isn't one of those cases; Gladiator was presented exactly the same as the 616 version, except maybe slightly more muscular looking.

Exactly what I said in more detail.

He never once utters the word "confidence"

Originally posted by llagrok
He never once utters the word "confidence"

Ok can somebody clraify this. Im pretty sure he did.

Originally posted by Horrificus
On a side note, this whole thing where character showings are discounted when they are from alternate realities is not always a solid way to look at it.

A lot of these alternate reality characters ARE the same power-sets as their 616 counterparts. So, they shouldn't be instantly discarded.

Thank you, this is exactly what I've been trying to get across.

It's one thing showing a female version of Logan that's in her teens, etc. - you can say she's probably different than her 616 counterpart. Exiles does this with characters on a regular basis, such as, in this instance, showing Galactus as a pacifist giant.

That being said, when they have shown characters in the past that look exactly the same as their 616 counterparts, they have in each case been just that - exactly the same. It helps the storyline move along faster. Otherwise you would have to re-write 50 comic books to establish a character's background to lead up to each alternate reality.

So unless otherwise specified, they are for all intensive purposes, the same - unless specified otherwise (such as Surfer being mean, etc.)

I would actually give Annihilation Surfer more chances of winning, then Exiles Suffer.

Originally posted by Kutulu
If a character in an alternate universe displays the exact same powers (mentions confidence, flying around in space unaided, etc.), is in the same position (in Gladiator's case, head of the Shi-ar imperial guard), then we can assume he has the same powers.

If a character is presented differently, such as a different costume, attitude, or displays different powers, then yeah you can say he's not the same. In this case Gladiator was the exact same as his 616 counterpart for all intensive purposes. Exiles has shown characters with different clothing, different attitudes, etc., such as a hippie Hulk with a big peace sign on his jeanjacket. This isn't one of those cases; Gladiator was presented exactly the same as the 616 version, except maybe slightly more muscular looking. Where is the proof that Gladiator was at least equal to the 616 counterpart? Has he mentioned it? "Hey I'm equal to my 616 alter ego." I doubt it. You are going by the facts that the characters are called Silver Surfer and Galactus. This doesn't autmatically means that they are the same. They might have the same powers, but who said they are equal in power. Show me proof where it has been said that 616's characters and that universe's characters are truly the same. Because it hasn't been proved.

Originally posted by Rewmac
Where is the proof that Gladiator was at least equal to the 616 counterpart? Has he mentioned it? "Hey I'm equal to my 616 alter ego." I doubt it. You are going by the facts that the characters are called Silver Surfer and Galactus. This doesn't autmatically means that they are the same. They might have the same powers, but who said they are equal in power. Show me proof where it has been said that 616's characters and that universe's characters are truly the same. Because it hasn't been proved.

If it looks like a duck, and acts like a duck, it must be a duck.

http://img164.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ssravager2ql6.jpg

Actually he didnt what he said was that "as long as my cause as righteous I cannot fail" implying that as long as I believe in what im doing I will win.

Originally posted by Rewmac
Where is the proof that Gladiator was at least equal to the 616 counterpart? Has he mentioned it? "Hey I'm equal to my 616 alter ego." I doubt it. You are going by the facts that the characters are called Silver Surfer and Galactus. This doesn't autmatically means that they are the same. They might have the same powers, but who said they are equal in power. Show me proof where it has been said that 616's characters and that universe's characters are truly the same. Because it hasn't been proved.

Originally posted by Kutulu
If it looks like a duck, and acts like a duck, it must be a duck.

hysterical

Originally posted by id369
I would actually give Annihilation Surfer more chances of winning, then Exiles Suffer.

I don't. There is no Crunch energy available for this fight.

Originally posted by Rewmac
Where is the proof that Gladiator was at least equal to the 616 counterpart? Has he mentioned it? "Hey I'm equal to my 616 alter ego." I doubt it. You are going by the facts that the characters are called Silver Surfer and Galactus. This doesn't autmatically means that they are the same. They might have the same powers, but who said they are equal in power. Show me proof where it has been said that 616's characters and that universe's characters are truly the same. Because it hasn't been proved.

I have already explained this several times now.

#1 - re-establishing a backstory for every alternate version of a character in a comic book would be against the principles of storytelling. Not to mention that writers don't lay out a page saying "here are this guy's powers". Nobody would buy comics like that and it wouldnt' appeal to people, and would kill the central point of storytelling.
#2 - in Exiles past stories, if a character doesn't have distinguishing characteristics, then they have had the exact same powers as their 616 counterparts. If the Exiles writer decides to write a character differently, then chances are that they use their powers differently or have different powers. In this case, Gladiator looked exactly the same, his punch was powerful enough that it generated a huge burst of light, he was blasted in the chest directly and it didn't penetrate his skin (where the same blast created a whole through the other Shi-ar imperial guard). So we know right off the bat that his durability is way up there.

Gladiator also acts the same, looks the same, and does the same thing, so it's pretty clear that the writer intended for him to be the same.

Going by your logic, I have shown that this version of the Gladiator was the same as his 616 counterpart, can you prove to me otherwise? If not, then by logic it's the same as the 616 counterpart. The ball is in your court.

Originally posted by Alfheim
http://img164.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ssravager2ql6.jpg

Actually he didnt what he said was that "as long as my cause as righteous I cannot fail" implying that as long as I believe in what im doing I will win.

^^ Exactly, this comment illustrates Gladiator's supreme confidence in himself, showing that he started off full power for this fight.

This is the classic "we cant be certain" escape clause.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Thank you, this is exactly what I've been trying to get across.

It's one thing showing a female version of Logan that's in her teens, etc. - you can say she's probably different than her 616 counterpart. Exiles does this with characters on a regular basis, such as, in this instance, showing Galactus as a pacifist giant.

That being said, when they have shown characters in the past that look exactly the same as their 616 counterparts, they have in each case been just that - exactly the same. It helps the storyline move along faster. Otherwise you would have to re-write 50 comic books to establish a character's background to lead up to each alternate reality.

So unless otherwise specified, they are for all intensive purposes, the same - unless specified otherwise (such as Surfer being mean, etc.)
Agreed.

Originally posted by Alfheim
This is the classic "we cant be certain" escape clause.

This reminds me of when someone in another thread said that planets were less dense in another universe when arguing a DC character versus a Marvel character, in regards to planet destroying attacks.

Originally posted by Sundipped
I don't. There is no Crunch energy available for this fight.
That's true.
Even if it was the same Surfer, the Crunch energy was not his. He just manipulated it.

Originally posted by Kutulu
If it looks like a duck, and acts like a duck, it must be a duck. Or it can be Hulk...Originally posted by Kutulu
Thank you, this is exactly what I've been trying to get across.

It's one thing showing a female version of Logan that's in her teens, etc. - you can say she's probably different than her 616 counterpart. Exiles does this with characters on a regular basis, such as, in this instance, showing Galactus as a pacifist giant.

That being said, when they have shown characters in the past that look exactly the same as their 616 counterparts, they have in each case been just that - exactly the same. It helps the storyline move along faster. Otherwise you would have to re-write 50 comic books to establish a character's background to lead up to each alternate reality.

So unless otherwise specified, they are for all intensive purposes, the same - unless specified otherwise (such as Surfer being mean, etc.) Have you read the previous issues? They showed Galactus's armor can be cracked by Thunderbird at full power (Thunder was at full power) so if I follow your logic, that means in 2002 Thunderbird's 616 counter would have been able to do the same 616 Galactus?

Looked more like he simply released it.

Originally posted by Kutulu
If it looks like a duck, and acts like a duck, it must be a duck.

If he posts like an idiot and speculates like an idiot, he must be an idiot.

Galactus is semi abstract, his form and shape various, so nobody can "look" like Galactus. Not that this Exiles version even looked like the regular Galactus.

You have absolutely no proof that any of these characters are as strong as their 616 counterparts.

Originally posted by llagrok
Looked more like he simply released it.



If he posts like an idiot and speculates like an idiot, he must be an idiot.

Galactus is semi abstract, his form and shape various, so nobody can "look" like Galactus. Not that this Exiles version even looked like the regular Galactus.

You have absolutely no proof that any of these characters are as strong as their 616 counterparts. But, but, but they showed him fighting and he shot big blast from his hands....31

Originally posted by Rewmac
Or it can be Hulk... Have you read the previous issues? They showed Galactus can be beaten by Thunderbird at full power (Thunder was at full power) so if I follow you logic, that means in 2002 Thunderbird's 616 counter would have been able to beat 616 Galactus?

Thunderbird didn't beat Galactus, he merely drove him off. 616 Galactus has been driven off with less force than that, such as when Mr. Fantastic used the Thing like a cannonball to knock him over when he was weak and hungry.

Galactus also has additional exceptions placed upon him due to the Abraxas arc, where it was shown that 616 Galactus was "Galactus Prime" so to speak, which wasn't the case here.

I stand by my statement - if a character is shown exactly the same as their 616 counterpart, with no alterations in behavior, clothing, or shown powers, then for all intensive purposes they have the same powers as their 616 counterpart. If you can prove to me that this Gladiator was somehow different than his 616 counterpart, by all means do so and I will gladly debate it with you.

He married Manta.....

Originally posted by Kutulu
Thunderbird didn't beat Galactus, he merely drove him off. 616 Galactus has been driven off with less force than that, such as when Mr. Fantastic used the Thing like a cannonball to knock him over when he was weak and hungry.

Galactus also has additional exceptions placed upon him due to the Abraxas arc, where it was shown that 616 Galactus was "Galactus Prime" so to speak, which wasn't the case here.

I stand by my statement - if a character is shown exactly the same as their 616 counterpart, with no alterations in behavior, clothing, or shown powers, then for all intensive purposes they have the same powers as their 616 counterpart. If you can prove to me that this Gladiator was somehow different than his 616 counterpart, by all means do so and I will gladly debate it with you. Ohhh he didn't? Guess he didn't even crack is armor?

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/7149/17nd0.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/6607/18hg8.jpg

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/4307/19ub0.jpg

Galactus on his knees...hmm...John in 616 would surely do that to 616 Galactus right???


Also zombies would be able to kill Galactus and Surfer right?

Originally posted by Rewmac
Ohhh he didn't? Guess he didn't even crack is armor?

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/7149/17nd0.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/6607/18hg8.jpg

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/4307/19ub0.jpg

Galactus on his knees...hmm...John in 616 would surely do that to 616 Galactus right???


Also zombies would be able to kill Galactus and Surfer right?

Did you even read what I wrote? Obviously you didn't or you would have seen the part where I said Galactus-616 is Galactus Prime and is an exception, and that's on-panel from the Abraxas arc.

Try reading what you quote next time before you hit the reply button.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Did you even read what I wrote? Obviously you didn't or you would have seen the part where I said Galactus-616 is Galactus Prime and is an exception, and that's on-panel from the Abraxas arc.

Try reading what you quote next time before you hit the reply button. Nope I read one part of it, and since the post isn't worthy of cutting it I just answered to specific part. But again why am I explaining myself to you...Guess I don't have to. You go by a logic which full of crap, you see facts and the way you want.

as far as I can tell, Exiles Surfer is just regular Surfer with an upgraded mind in terms of cunning, ruthlessness, battle readiness and aggression.

there's really no need to have Surfer and Galactus in that story if they don't have some relation to their 616 selves. same with Gladiator. why put him in there, why have Surfer cut him in two if not to demonstrate that this Surfer means business and uses the Power Cosmic more readily?


and come on, let's return to the thread: Exiles Surfer vs SMP.

I want to know more about SMP. I have a good idea of what Surfer can do, so I'd like to know what people think SMP can do and also to what levels.

Originally posted by Rewmac
Nope I read one part of it, and since the post isn't worthy of cutting it I just answered to specific part. But again why am I explaining myself to you...Guess I don't have to. You go by a logic which full of crap, you see facts and the way you want.

Ok so to sum up - you cannot prove logically your side of the argument, so you then say logic is full of crap, and that I see facts the way I want to, despite on-panel evidence which has proven you wrong.

I guess I gave you more credit than you were worth, here I thought you were ready to have an intellectual debate, but apparently when your arguments are proven wrong it comes down to insults.

Originally posted by Rewmac
Or it can be Hulk... Have you read the previous issues? They showed Galactus's armor can be cracked by Thunderbird at full power (Thunder was at full power) so if I follow your logic, that means in 2002 Thunderbird's 616 counter would have been able to do the same 616 Galactus?

I posted a thread about the Thunderbird feat.

THAT particular Galactus was no weaker than 616.
As a matter of fact, the writers went to great lengths to make sure the reader knew that Galactus was at Full-Power, and stronger than previous 616 Galactus showings, where he had been beaten back by defenders.

My argument was that T-Bird at full-power had performed a spectacular feat.

That specific Galactus was no more or no less powerful than 616 G. He was just at Full-Power.

So, the T-Bird feat should count.

Originally posted by Horrificus
I posted a thread about the Thunderbird feat.

THAT particular Galactus was no weaker than 616.
As a matter of fact, the writers went to great lengths to make sure the reader knew that Galactus was at Full-Power, and stronger than previous 616 Galactus showings, where he had been beaten back by defenders.

My argument was that T-Bird at full-power had performed a spectacular feat.

Better watch it, or Rewmac will accuse you of "You go by a logic which full of crap" like he did to me.

Originally posted by Kutulu
I stand by my statement - if a character is shown exactly the same as their 616 counterpart, with no alterations in behavior, clothing, or shown powers, then for all intensive purposes they have the same powers as their 616 counterpart. If you can prove to me that this Gladiator was somehow different than his 616 counterpart, by all means do so and I will gladly debate it with you. Does that mean that Thor would kill Savage Hulk easily?

Originally posted by janus77
as far as I can tell, Exiles Surfer is just regular Surfer with an upgraded mind in terms of cunning, ruthlessness, battle readiness and aggression.

there's really no need to have Surfer and Galactus in that story if they don't have some relation to their 616 selves. same with Gladiator. why put him in there, why have Surfer cut him in two if not to demonstrate that this Surfer means business and uses the Power Cosmic more readily?


and come on, let's return to the thread: Exiles Surfer vs SMP.

I want to know more about SMP. I have a good idea of what Surfer can do, so I'd like to know what people think SMP can do and also to what levels.

The 616 Surfer evolved an entire planet.

This Surfer shot energy blasts...

Originally posted by Horrificus
I posted a thread about the Thunderbird feat.

THAT particular Galactus was no weaker than 616.
As a matter of fact, the writers went to great lengths to make sure the reader knew that Galactus was at Full-Power, and stronger than previous 616 Galactus showings, where he had been beaten back by defenders.

My argument was that T-Bird at full-power had performed a spectacular feat.

That specific Galactus was no more or no less powerful than 616 G. He was just at Full-Power.

So, the T-Bird feat should count.

Oh and thanks for reminding me earlier about the Exiles showing Maestro's war room, I went back and re-read those issues. I saw: Thor's hammer, Surfer's Surfboard (with a big hole in it ), Dr. Octopus' adamantium arm (ripped off of course), and some other cool stuff.

I'm going to look for a good image host tonight to try and post up the scans.

According to Kutulu's logic, King Hyperion should be able to beat the Hulk, Thor and all the heroes on earth...

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Does that mean that Thor would kill Savage Hulk easily?

I'm not sure I follow your line of reasoning here; please clarify.

Originally posted by Kutulu
I'm not sure I follow your line of reasoning here; please clarify. Thor killed Hulk in a What-If. No different powers were shown between the two. And Thor did it with raw strength.

Wolverine also killed Hulk in a What-If.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Thor killed Hulk in a What-If. No different powers were shown between the two. And Thor did it with raw strength.

Wolverine also killed Hulk in a What-If.

What-If's are not canon, last time I checked. The Exiles are different than the What-If storylines, as they have actually had crossovers which put them in continuity with marvel-616.

What-If's for all intensive purposes could be taking place in an entirely different multiverse.

Originally posted by Kutulu
What-If's are not canon, last time I checked. The Exiles are different than the What-If storylines, as they have actually had crossovers which put them in continuity with marvel-616.

What-If's for all intensive purposes could be taking place in an entirely different multiverse.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist


If you disagree with me that's fine, post an instance of someone from a What-If storyline interacting with someone from MU-616, like the Exiles have.

Prime has surfer beat in speed,strength and durability. Surfer can chanel as many energies as he wishes but it wont do a damn thing to prime who was able to withstand a guardian suicide explosion at point blank range. Prime takes this 10/10.

Originally posted by Kutulu
If you disagree with me that's fine, post an instance of someone from a What-If storyline interacting with someone from MU-616, like the Exiles have. How exactly would that mean anything?
Plus, Uatu has watched the universes before, and Quasar was traversing What-If universes before, while chasing Living Laser.

Originally posted by llagrok
He married Manta.....

But apart from that looks exactly like Gladiator. Talks and behaves like Gladiator. Can fly through outer space and is most likely capable of interstellar travel and implied that his power is connected to his confidence. Is head of The Imperial guard


...but because he married Manta all that goes out of the window.....brilliant.

Hell its not even out of characters for Glads to marry manta. Shes a mmber of the imperial guard and so is he, the fight together and they fell in love..big deal.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Oh and thanks for reminding me earlier about the Exiles showing Maestro's war room, I went back and re-read those issues. I saw: Thor's hammer, Surfer's Surfboard (with a big hole in it ), Dr. Octopus' adamantium arm (ripped off of course), and some other cool stuff.

I'm going to look for a good image host tonight to try and post up the scans.
EXACTLY!
Can't wait for the scans.

Originally posted by llagrok
According to Kutulu's logic, King Hyperion should be able to beat the Hulk, Thor and all the heroes on earth...
Dude. The 2 Hyperion's that came to the aid of the Exiles had both been on 616, and had both been top-tier, Thor/Hulk threats.

So, with both of them having a tough time with King Hyperion, YES. He would probably be able to take out Hulk and Thor.

Who knows what else was involved in KH's past. Why he got so powerful. How he was able to beat all the heroes AND Galactus.

But, you can't just write him off.

Originally posted by Rewmac
Nope I read one part of it, and since the post isn't worthy of cutting it I just answered to specific part. But again why am I explaining myself to you...Guess I don't have to. You go by a logic which full of crap, you see facts and the way you want.
Relax, Killer. Everybody is just throwing around ideas here. No reason to get "punchy".

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Thor killed Hulk in a What-If. No different powers were shown between the two. And Thor did it with raw strength.

Wolverine also killed Hulk in a What-If.

Let me sum up and clarify what I am saying, to lessen the confusion here:

* Exiles have interacted with characters from MU-616. X-men Die by the Sword is one instance. This makes them canon.

* The way Exiles is written is such that a character generally remains as they are, unless specified otherwise by the writer. So for example, Silver Surfer written as ruthless, and Galactus giving life. Those are instances of characters being far different than their 616 counterparts. Those characters you can logically make an argument that they act different in battle and have different powersets, etc..

In the instance of Thunderbird punching a hole in Galactus' armor, causing Galactus to retreat, the writer made extra attempts to illustrate that this version of Galactus was for most purposes as powerful as his 616 counterpart. So logically you could conclude that if that specific version of Thunderbird were to come to MU-616 and try and fight off Galactus, he would stand a very high probability of piercing Galactus' armor in a similar fashion.

In the instance of Gladiator, he looked exactly the same and acted exactly the same as his his 616 counterpart as far as his powers go. So if that instance of Gladiator was to fight 616's Gladiator, then most likely they would stalemate.

Originally posted by Alfheim
But apart from that looks exactly like Gladiator. Talks and behaves like Gladiator. Can fly through outer space and is most likely capable of interstellar travel and implied that his power is connected to his confidence. Is head of The Imperial guard


...but because he married Manta all that goes out of the window.....brilliant.

Hell its not even out of characters for Glads to marry manta. Shes a mmber of the imperial guard and so is he, the fight together and they fell in love..big deal. No what sends him out the window is that he has no feats.

That Exiles Silver Surfer also had no feats.

And also the fact that 616 Silver Surfer has many feats better than Exiles SS even the implied ones like destroying Earth.

Originally posted by Newjak
No what sends him out the window is that he has no feats.


I disagree, but as I was saying earlier he most likely has the same powerset as 616 Glads. It not certain but I think that is the most logical conclusion.

Originally posted by Newjak
No what sends him out the window is that he has no feats.

That Exiles Silver Surfer also had no feats.

And also the fact that 616 Silver Surfer has many feats better than Exiles SS even the implied ones like destroying Earth.

Feats is not the only thing that makes a character. This circles back to the point I was making earlier - the writer is essentially using the feats of the 616 counterpart when using an alternate version of a character, by illustrating the character to be close to the 616 character as possible.

If you only went by feats, then it would greatly lengthen the time of each comic, and the Exiles would have to have 1000 issues just to have the same storline they have now, just to go over character's feats in each universe. That takes away from the storyline and makes it boring. Nobody is going to buy a comic that only shows feats for 5 issues or what-not to establish that they have the same exact powers as their 616 counterpart.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Let me sum up and clarify what I am saying, to lessen the confusion here:

* Exiles have interacted with characters from MU-616. X-men Die by the Sword is one instance. This makes them canon.

* The way Exiles is written is such that a character generally remains as they are, unless specified otherwise by the writer. So for example, Silver Surfer written as ruthless, and Galactus giving life. Those are instances of characters being far different than their 616 counterparts. Those characters you can logically make an argument that they act different in battle and have different powersets, etc..

In the instance of Thunderbird punching a hole in Galactus' armor, causing Galactus to retreat, the writer made extra attempts to illustrate that this version of Galactus was for most purposes as powerful as his 616 counterpart. So logically you could conclude that if that specific version of Thunderbird were to come to MU-616 and try and fight off Galactus, he would stand a very high probability of piercing Galactus' armor in a similar fashion.

In the instance of Gladiator, he looked exactly the same and acted exactly the same as his his 616 counterpart as far as his powers go. So if that instance of Gladiator was to fight 616's Gladiator, then most likely they would stalemate. And you see none of that matters.

Yes Exiles is in some fashion cannon.

But unless you have the feats to back it up you can not try and imply just because they look similar they are similar.

I'll even use your example of Galactus.

Galactus armor was broken by a shot from T-Bird when he was supposedly well fed. 616 Thor has hit Galactus with his Hammer yet has never been shown to crack Galactus' armor. Unless you are going to try and say T-Bird is stronger than 616 Thor.


Face it you need feats to start to make large assumptions like that.

All we really know is that Glads looked like his 616 Counterpart not that he was as strong as his 616 counterpart. Why because he has no feats. No if we saw him actually do something like destroy a planet then yes I would say he in the same range as Glads but he never did.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Thor killed Hulk in a What-If. No different powers were shown between the two. And Thor did it with raw strength.

Wolverine also killed Hulk in a What-If.
Not sure what you are getting at either.
Hulk HAS been killed before. He is NOT omnipotent. This forum just has lots of people that try to make him out to be.
Hulk has been beaten down, killed, resurrected, captured and subdued just like other characters.

What fun would it be to read a comic if that stuff never happened to your favorite character? It would suck.
Originally posted by Kutulu
What-If's are not canon, last time I checked. The Exiles are different than the What-If storylines, as they have actually had crossovers which put them in continuity with marvel-616.

What-If's for all intensive purposes could be taking place in an entirely different multiverse. This is True.

Originally posted by Newjak


All we really know is that Glads looked like his 616 Counterpart not that he was as strong as his 616 counterpart. Why because he has no feats. No if we saw him actually do something like destroy a planet then yes I would say he in the same range as Glads but he never did.

Yes were aware of that but because of his appearance, behaviour and his role (head of the imperial guard), the most liekly conclusion is that the storywriter is implying that he has the same powerset as the 616 version.

Of course feats clarify that more clearly but if thats all we have to go on im voting exiles glads is the same as 616.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Feats is not the only thing that makes a character. This circles back to the point I was making earlier - the writer is essentially using the feats of the 616 counterpart when using an alternate version of a character, by illustrating the character to be close to the 616 character as possible.

If you only went by feats, then it would greatly lengthen the time of each comic, and the Exiles would have to have 1000 issues just to have the same storline they have now, just to go over character's feats in each universe. That takes away from the storyline and makes it boring. Nobody is going to buy a comic that only shows feats for 5 issues or what-not to establish that they have the same exact powers as their 616 counterpart. That doesn't matter because all you are doing is speculating that they may be as strong as their 616 counterpart. That doesn't make a good basis. You've got to have feats. If you do not have feats then you can not say.

Exiles Silver Surfer would do the same thing to 616 Glads that he did to his version.

No you can not say that because besides look their is no factual basis on which to say they are the same person. In fact they are not the same person.

Once again you've got to have actual feats before you start to make comparisons like that. And no you don't have to go Feat crazy with someone to give them good feats or accountable feats. Just look at Exiles Hyperion. Limited appearances but enough feats to make conclusions not based on beating Alternate Reality people.

Originally posted by Newjak
And you see none of that matters.

Yes Exiles is in some fashion cannon.

But unless you have the feats to back it up you can not try and imply just because they look similar they are similar.

I'll even use your example of Galactus.

Galactus armor was broken by a shot from T-Bird when he was supposedly well fed. 616 Thor has hit Galactus with his Hammer yet has never been shown to crack Galactus' armor. Unless you are going to try and say T-Bird is stronger than 616 Thor.


Face it you need feats to start to make large assumptions like that.

All we really know is that Glads looked like his 616 Counterpart not that he was as strong as his 616 counterpart. Why because he has no feats. No if we saw him actually do something like destroy a planet then yes I would say he in the same range as Glads but he never did.

That version of Thunderbird did have a stronger hand to hand attack than Thor's hammer. It's on-panel, if you take the time to read the story you would see just how powerful they made him. That attack also came close to killing him from the backlash of energy that Galactus emitted from the breach in his armor.

only read a couple of pages so far and most of you are absolute idiots. surfer would get destroyed. he stood and told that golden sabretooth that he never knew how to use the power and that he was just a savage brute. sabretooth smiled, ripped his chest open and said.... sometimes thats just enough



no fancy comics just savage brute power. and if done it..... you better recognize that prime will. he's take them both out together thats what this thread should be about

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Prime has surfer beat in speed,strength and durability. Surfer can chanel as many energies as he wishes but it wont do a damn thing to prime who was able to withstand a guardian suicide explosion at point blank range. Prime takes this 10/10. Surfer is not big on the "explosions in the face" technique. He would probably work more with the energy manipulation approach. And, obviously, as seen by the storyline where SMP needed the suit to help with his power shortage, this is a workable way to beat him.

Superman Prime with relative ease.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yes were aware of that but because of his appearance, behaviour and his role (head of the imperial guard), the most liekly conclusion is that the storywriter is implying that he has the same powerset as the 616 version.

Of course feats clarify that more clearly but if thats all we have to go on im voting exiles glads is the same as 616. Listen it doesn't matter how much a writer implies the similarities between two alternate reality versions. The fact remains they are not the same person and one has feats the other doesn't.

Why because that writer isn't writing 616 Glads he is writing an alternate version. Anything he may imply has no bearing on the 616 version, or vice-versa. Or let me put it this way. 616 Glads will constantly be getting feats does that mean the alternate reality version would also get those future feats?

No it doesn't because they aren't the same person or written by the same person.

Or let me phrase this another way for you.

If the alternate reality version of Glads say lifted the Universe would you say 616 Glads could also lift a Universe?

Originally posted by Alfheim
I disagree, but as I was saying earlier he most likely has the same powerset as 616 Glads. It not certain but I think that is the most logical conclusion. I agree. If the character is written with the same origin and power-set, the same feats could probably be attributed to that character.

Originally posted by Kutulu
That version of Thunderbird did have a stronger hand to hand attack than Thor's hammer. It's on-panel, if you take the time to read the story you would see just how powerful they made him. That attack also came close to killing him from the backlash of energy that Galactus emitted from the breach in his armor. So you are saying that T-Bird is stronger than 616 Thor?

Or that he can hit harder than 616 Thor. The same Thor that cracked a celestial's armor?

And the only evidence that you would be willing to except is that T-Bird broke through an Alternate Reality Galactus' armor?

think the word you're looking for is immortal, unless you really do see "hulk fanboys" everywhere (and pretty soon "Reds under the beds" ).

Hulk does rise from the dead though, so perhaps not conventionally immortal but still, functionally not very different.


anyway, back to Exiles Surfer. He seemed to have the same blummin' powers, rode around on a surfboard, fired blasts, used the Power Cosmic - explicitly made mention of it - and did pretty much normal Surfer things, aside from killing superheroes left right and center.

it's the ruthless martial mind and battle-ready, aggressive personality that really are the visible indications that Exiles SS is different from regular Surfer.

and because the PC can be used to amp and enhance Surfer's abilities to an unknown extent, and because Exiles looked like he was wearing some form of cosmic armour, I think it's fair to say that Exiles SS was somewhat more powerful than regular SS. also the size and potency of his regular blasts seemed greater.


I want to know why it would not be feasible for Surfer to just alter SMP's dna or cellular structure (by introducing a cancer for example) such that the solar energies can no longer be stored in them?

Originally posted by Newjak
Listen it doesn't matter how much a writer implies the similarities between two alternate reality versions. The fact remains they are not the same person and one has feats the other doesn't.

Why because that writer isn't writing 616 Glads he is writing an alternate version. Anything he may imply has no bearing on the 616 version, or vice-versa. Or let me put it this way. 616 Glads will constantly be getting feats does that mean the alternate reality version would also get those future feats?

No it doesn't because they aren't the same person or written by the same person.

Or let me phrase this another way for you.

If the alternate reality version of Glads say lifted the Universe would you say 616 Glads could also lift a Universe?

Once again you are circling back to the initial point of contention in the discussion.

What you ask for can simply not be done without having the comic turn to garbage. Mr. Master himself posted a pretty thorough explanation on how the alternate universes within the multiverse containing MU-616 work. They are basically ripples outwards from what happens in MU-616 for the most part, with minor changes in some, and major changes in others. This is on-panel, and it's why if MU-616 falls, so does the rest of the universes in a cataclysmic chain reaction of events.

If any writer wrote a comic in the way that you suggest they would have to in order for a non-616 character to have any power (by having on-panel feats), he would literally have to write anywhere from a few to a several hundred comics going over the history of each character one by one that would appear in an issue or two of the main storyline.

It makes it a lot simpler for the writer, and the reader, if they can simply say "look, here's a version of Wolverine, except that he has just left the lab from weapon-X". You know from them saying that and / or showing that, that he has all of Wolverine's attributes. An example is they literally had a vast quantity of alternate versions of Wolverines in one of the Exiles books, and all of them had claws, all of them could regenerate, etc.. The only differences were with their physical appearance, attitudes, and history, but all of their powers were the same.

Originally posted by Newjak
Listen it doesn't matter how much a writer implies the similarities between two alternate reality versions. The fact remains they are not the same person and one has feats the other doesn't.

If a character looks, behaves, has the same job and powerset (intersteller travel, flying in space etc)...then yeah thats the same person. The only difference is that he married Mantis and that not even out of character.

Originally posted by Newjak

Why because that writer isn't writing 616 Glads he is writing an alternate version. Anything he may imply has no bearing on the 616 version, or vice-versa. Or let me put it this way. 616 Glads will constantly be getting feats does that mean the alternate reality version would also get those future feats?

No it doesn't because they aren't the same person or written by the same person.

Or let me phrase this another way for you.

If the alternate reality version of Glads say lifted the Universe would you say 616 Glads could also lift a Universe?

But he dindt do that did he? Im going on what I saw and if thats the only information I have im assuming he has the same powerset.

Lets put it this way if you were going to bet money you would bet that Glads had the same powerset as 616.

Prime>>Monitor>>Surfer.

Originally posted by Newjak
So you are saying that T-Bird is stronger than 616 Thor?

Or that he can hit harder than 616 Thor. The same Thor that cracked a celestial's armor?

And the only evidence that you would be willing to except is that T-Bird broke through an Alternate Reality Galactus' armor?

I never said specifically that Thunderbird from Exiles was more powerful than Thor - only that his particular attack that breached Galactus' armor, while in his enraged / berserk form that he was given by his universe's version of Apocalypse (using Celestial technology) had a stronger hand to hand attack which would inflict more damage than a hammer thrown at a distance by 616 Thor.

In another comic of Exiles he beat down the Hulk in hand to hand combat. So that version of thunderbird was no joke. Celestial technology can amp a character quite a bit.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Not sure what you are getting at either.
Hulk HAS been killed before. He is NOT omnipotent. This forum just has lots of people that try to make him out to be.
Hulk has been beaten down, killed, resurrected, captured and subdued just like other characters.
I have no idea of what this post was supposed to be...

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
I have no idea of what this post was supposed to be...
I'm too lazy to go back and look.
Sorry.

Who's the guy with the "Weiner-Gun" in your sig?

Originally posted by Horrificus
I'm too lazy to go back and look.
Sorry.

Who's the guy with the "Weiner-Gun" in your sig?

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
I have no idea of what this post was supposed to be...

Yeah... off-topic, but that is a funny ass sig you got Bran. hysterical2

From what I can tell from the scans posted here but rest assured when I find this I will read it that Prime would most likely win this but it is far from easy. This Surfer took Gladiator in half and stopped his punch easily. Whereas Prime didnt kill Superboy easily at all. I know thats looking at it from two fights but the way I see it Surfer is the prefect candidate to take down Kryptonian. If Surfer survives the initial assalt he could win. Red solar energy is a bich.

Originally posted by Estacado
Prime>>Monitor>>Surfer. Exactly just ingore Kutulu's logic it does not count...

Originally posted by Rewmac
Exactly just ingore Kutulu's logic it does not count... Kutulu is a good debater if you ask me. So you two disagree its no reason to throw snide remarks at each other. Just disagree and leave it at that.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Once again you are circling back to the initial point of contention in the discussion.

What you ask for can simply not be done without having the comic turn to garbage. Mr. Master himself posted a pretty thorough explanation on how the alternate universes within the multiverse containing MU-616 work. They are basically ripples outwards from what happens in MU-616 for the most part, with minor changes in some, and major changes in others. This is on-panel, and it's why if MU-616 falls, so does the rest of the universes in a cataclysmic chain reaction of events.

If any writer wrote a comic in the way that you suggest they would have to in order for a non-616 character to have any power (by having on-panel feats), he would literally have to write anywhere from a few to a several hundred comics going over the history of each character one by one that would appear in an issue or two of the main storyline.

It makes it a lot simpler for the writer, and the reader, if they can simply say "look, here's a version of Wolverine, except that he has just left the lab from weapon-X". You know from them saying that and / or showing that, that he has all of Wolverine's attributes. An example is they literally had a vast quantity of alternate versions of Wolverines in one of the Exiles books, and all of them had claws, all of them could regenerate, etc.. The only differences were with their physical appearance, attitudes, and history, but all of their powers were the same. I only read the half of thepost coz I'm not interested in bullcrap but it's clear that newjak has more info on comics than you do...Stoip bringing bullshit up...

Originally posted by Rewmac
Exactly just ingore Kutulu's logic it does not count...

If you will look through this thread, I never said that Surfer would take the win. All I was doing was clarifying how characters in alternate universes should be treated in comparison to their 616 counterparts, based upon the writer's intention.

Surfer defines wat a top tier is, however Prime is skyfather level and as I have mentioned before prime has Surfer beat in every regard. Prime 10/10

Originally posted by quanchi112
Kutulu is a good debater if you ask me. So you two disagree its no reason to throw snide remarks at each other. Just disagree and leave it at that. I disagree I've seen good debaters on my time on KMC, and I gotta tell ya some of the classic guys wouldn't do what I do (be soft) thy'll just pwn...

Originally posted by Kutulu
If you will look through this thread, I never said that Surfer would take the win. All I was doing was clarifying how characters in alternate universes should be treated in comparison to their 616 counterparts, based upon the writer's intention. You take your logic toi a level which is even funny, llagrok, Estacado and me (old timers) are laughing at what you say...

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Surfer defines wat a top tier is, however Prime is skyfather level and as I have mentioned before prime has Surfer beat in every regard. Prime 10/10 Prime should still take him because of his hand to hand trump card but with overall powers Surfer does have what it takes. That board would do damage to Prime and no one would be there to tell him to get out the way as they did with Sabretooth.

Thunderbird pushed a bomb into Galactus, Galactus was in NO way injured by T's attack...

Originally posted by Rewmac
I only read the half of thepost coz I'm not interested in bullcrap but it's clear that newjak has more info on comics than you do...Stoip bringing bullshit up...

You only read half the post, you try and quote things without reading what they say, and you try and put words in my mouth.

I respect Newjack although I may not agree with him. I respected you as well to an extent from your work in the respect forums and such, but when you quote me and post things out of context as to what I've said or didn't say, then you leave me little choice but to retort.

I didn't make anything up either, I posted scans to back up what I say. If you want to debate the logic behind alternate universe characters, then I am more than willing to debate. When you simply resort to insults and ignore what I've written, however, it makes it hard to get your point across.

I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, but there is no reason to resort to insults and say that I just make things up.

Originally posted by Rewmac
I only read the half of thepost coz I'm not interested in bullcrap but it's clear that newjak has more info on comics than you do...Stoip bringing bullshit up...

If your going to be insulting at least read through the whole post to be sure.

Originally posted by Alfheim
If your going to be insulting at least read through the whole post to be sure. I don't have to I have classic prestige...I'm around longenough to tell from half of the post if it's irrelevant...

Originally posted by Rewmac
I don't have to I have classic prestige...I'm around longenough to tell from half of the post if it's irrelevant...

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x29/juggalo_just/fail2eo3.jpg

Originally posted by Rewmac
I don't have to I have classic prestige...I'm around longenough to tell from half of the post if it's irrelevant...

Well at the end of the day you do what you want, but its just bad manners. If somebody read half your post and insulted you, you would be pissed off too. At least give the guy his due.

Your bang out of order.

Stopped reading after someone claimed 616 Surfer could beat flashes, Green Lanterns and Supermen at the same time if he wanted to.

Originally posted by Kutulu
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x29/juggalo_just/fail2eo3.jpg http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2299/animation1wb1qh1.gif
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/8997/z000fz294il0.gif
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/6097/theundertakerchokeslam7rq4.gifuhuh31

I know wat u mean superboy, I mean surfer is tough but hes in another league compared to any version of Surfer.

This forum makes me giggle.

This forum is a joke, its almost as bad as peeps saying DS coudnt take wins away from Odin.

Originally posted by batdude123
This forum makes me giggle. uhuh You still on KMC I thought I never see you again buddy...

Originally posted by The Great Galen
This forum is a joke, its almost as bad as peeps saying DS coudnt take wins away from Odin. He couldnt. You I think are the only one on here who considers Darkseid at abstract level.

Originally posted by llagrok
Thunderbird pushed a bomb into Galactus, Galactus was in NO way injured by T's attack... Well, I wouldn't say THAT.
He was obviously injured in some manner, otherwise he would have stayed to finish his lunch.

Was is serious? Probably not, since G is mostly energy. Did it catch him by surprise? It seemed so.
Originally posted by Rewmac
You take your logic toi a level which is even funny, llagrok, Estacado and me (old timers) are laughing at what you say...
Dude, did you miss your meds or something?
If you are going to insult somebody, at least be funny about it. Or, maybe even original. You weren't even after me, and you annoyed the hell outta me.
I am reading your posts, and it looks like my 5 year old neighbor is arguing with one of her teddy bears!
What next? Are you going to call him a "Stupid Head"? Or tell him that he poops his pants?
Talk about the comic, or get the hell out. I don't want to have to sort through your endless kookiness, while I am trying to follow the debate.
Now, off with you! Maybe you can find some kids on a short-bus that you can pick on.

Now, somebody tell me why Surfer can't manipulate Prime's energy source?

Prime uses and needs his outside energy source.
He doesn't generate his own energy.
He is not a conduit for his energy, (the way Surfer is).