Emma Frost vs Moondragon

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



SuperiorTech
http://www.imagehost.ro/pict/1812072847907a60a8878.jpg


vs


http://www.imagehost.ro/pict/1812075047907a764af32.jpg


Emma frost vs Moondragon who is the more skilled and powerful telepath and who wins in a fight.

tkitna
Moondragon

ExodusCloak
Here's another Emma vs. Moondragon thread:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=451689&highlight=emma+forumid%3A77+userid%3A63196

Haven't been that many tabs on Annihilation Conquest but I know Heather changed into a dragon and then died. So did Heather's telepathy get augemented when she went through this change or did she just get dragon powers?

Madvillain
Moondragon.

Madvillain
I'd like to see Moondragon vs. Oracle though.

Bouboumaster
Moondragon

llagrok
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Here's another Emma vs. Moondragon thread:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=451689&highlight=emma+forumid%3A77+userid%3A63196

Haven't been that many tabs on Annihilation Conquest but I know Heather changed into a dragon and then died. So did Heather's telepathy get augemented when she went through this change or did she just get dragon powers?

She mentioned how her telepathy and telekinesis have remained the same.

Joey Stacks
Emma.

Moondragon's been teetering on Maxwell Lord levels of mediocrity for a long time now.

Laminator_X
Let's see, has Emma ever shown herself to be capable of mentally dominating an entire planet's population all at once? What? No?

Moondragon.

Mindset
Why did Moondragon turn into a dragon?

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Laminator_X
Let's see, has Emma ever shown herself to be capable of mentally dominating an entire planet's population all at once? What? No?

Moondragon.

I said the same thing in the thread above. But apparently that feat was accomplished when she was augmented by the Dragon of the Moon. She lost that after it lost it's influence over her. And then a lot of her other feats involve the usage of the mind gem which is also an augmentation. Which makes sense because she's been quite the disappointment lately.

Originally posted by llagrok
She mentioned how her telepathy and telekinesis have remained the same.

Thanks for the info.

Charlotte DeBel
Current Emma owns current (sans gem) Moondragon since in Messiah Complex Emma proves to be even arguably better than Charles, and Moondragon without gem is quite a disappointment.
Moondragon with her powerups beats Emma handily, but that's the powerups which play the major role.

skyfather
Originally posted by Mindset
Why did Moondragon turn into a dragon?
because shes a moon dragon no expression

Charlotte DeBel
And currently she's not-that-impressive-in-mental-plane-dragoness and in pure TP combat loses to Emma 7/10.

skyfather
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
And currently she's not-that-impressive-in-mental-plane-dragoness and in pure TP combat loses to Emma 7/10.
shes also deadohmy

Laminator_X
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I said the same thing in the thread above. But apparently that feat was accomplished when she was augmented by the Dragon of the Moon. She lost that after it lost it's influence over her.

This is factually incorrect. Contrary to what the poster in the other thread wrote, she didn't begin to succumb to the Dragon's influence (and gain the concurrent powerup) until much later in the pages of New Defenders.

Remember also that long-term Infinity Gem use leaves the bearer more powerful even without the gem. Pip can still teleport without the Space Gem, Adam can touch soul without the Soul Gem, etc. Heather should be more powerful even without the Mind Gem than she was when she conquered Ba-banis.

As for Messiah Complex, I haven't read it and cannot comment.

llagrok
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Current Emma owns current (sans gem) Moondragon since in Messiah Complex Emma proves to be even arguably better than Charles, and Moondragon without gem is quite a disappointment.
Moondragon with her powerups beats Emma handily, but that's the powerups which play the major role.

Better than Charles?

Please, just please.

SuperiorTech
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Current Emma owns current (sans gem) Moondragon since in Messiah Complex Emma proves to be even arguably better than Charles, and Moondragon without gem is quite a disappointment.
Moondragon with her powerups beats Emma handily, but that's the powerups which play the major role.

What have you seen emma do in MC that would suggest that she is better than charles?

Charlotte DeBel
Not better since Charles got powered up recently. Equal/approaching in terms of skills- yes.

I'm not turning into crazy fangirl, Kris, don't worry.

llagrok
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Not better since Charles got powered up recently. Equal/approaching in terms of skills- yes.

I'm not turning into crazy fangirl, Kris, don't worry.

*phew* big grin

Yeah, I think she would be approaching in terms of skills and such.

Charlotte DeBel
Originally posted by llagrok
*phew* big grin

Yeah, I think she would be approaching in terms of skills and such.

Her antarctic feat was a really good showing- blocking Sinister AND Exodus from another hemisphere without Cerebra or any amplifiers is quite a feat.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Laminator_X
This is factually incorrect. Contrary to what the poster in the other thread wrote, she didn't begin to succumb to the Dragon's influence (and gain the concurrent powerup) until much later in the pages of New Defenders.

Remember also that long-term Infinity Gem use leaves the bearer more powerful even without the gem. Pip can still teleport without the Space Gem, Adam can touch soul without the Soul Gem, etc. Heather should be more powerful even without the Mind Gem than she was when she conquered Ba-banis.

As for Messiah Complex, I haven't read it and cannot comment.

So you're saying that she wasn't on a power-up when she performed that planetary level feat? Then how would you explain the drastic power down she received? In the following scans from the Annihilation Conquest Mini she says the Dragon of the Moon was subtly influencing her for years before she succumbed to being a host for it.

Moondragon's Story

Annihilation Conquest: Quasar #2
(15th August 2007)
(Writer: Christos Gage. Artist: Mike Lily)

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/6600/quasar20009rs1.th.jpghttp://img179.imageshack.us/img179/2946/quasar20011pi0.th.jpghttp://img409.imageshack.us/img409/2568/quasar20013ad7.th.jpghttp://img409.imageshack.us/img409/2633/quasar20014de9.th.jpghttp://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9702/quasar20015uj6.th.jpg

That last bit regarding the long term effects of the Infinity Gem is moot since current Heather has become a retard regarding her telepathy. She strugged to control a few "drones" in Annihilation. And I just picked up the Annihilation Conquest Quasar Mini and the first 3 issues of Annihilation Conquest and she's pretty lackluster in them in terms of telepathy.

Current Moondragon in terms of pure telepathy is most definitely not what she used to be. Her dragon powers however are another story.

Laminator_X
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
So you're saying that she wasn't on a power-up when she performed that planetary level feat?

Yes, I am. The possession stories weren't even written until years later. One might look at it as a ret-con, I suppose, but there was no indication of any sort of boosting in the original tales.



You did see some of this in New Defenders as she struggled with her anger towards Odin for hobbling her powers and mistrust from her teammates. There were scenes where she was being tempted by whispers and such. Again though, this was never portrayed in her Avengers-era appearances.



I chalked it up to bad writing myself. Gage's portrayal of most the characters in the Quasar-mini was at odds with most of their previous portrayals.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Laminator_X
Yes, I am. The possession stories weren't even written until years later. One might look at it as a ret-con, I suppose, but there was no indication of any sort of boosting in the original tales.



You did see some of this in New Defenders as she struggled with her anger towards Odin for hobbling her powers and mistrust from her teammates. There were scenes where she was being tempted by whispers and such. Again though, this was never portrayed in her Avengers-era appearances.



I chalked it up to bad writing myself. Gage's portrayal of most the characters in the Quasar-mini was at odds with most of their previous portrayals.

It certainly seems like they used the Dragon of the Moon Possession stories as a retcon to lower her power levels to something more workable in the heroic sense. erm

This kind of reminds me of the Jean Grey situation, when people say "sans Phoenix" it's very difficult to narrow down which feats are viable and which aren't because of the convolution that is the Phoenix Force.

To make matters worse in Moondragons case a period of her career involves the usage of the Mind Gem which again makes a whole load of her feats arbitrary.

And what's more unfortunate is that with Heathers death it'll be very difficult for her to make up for the lackluster displays of telepathy post losing the mind gem.

Whether it's bad writing or not is entirely subjective due to the recent potrayl of her power level after losing the mind gem but if I'm looking at Current Moondragon(No Upgrades, No Telekinesis, No H2H, No Dragon Powers, Only Telepathy) I can't see her taking the majority here.

Moondragon of the old with her upgrades would wipe the floor clean with practically any Earth Telepath. Pre-retcon Moondragon(When the Dragon of the Moon wasn't considered an Upgrade) would do the same. Current Heather however is not even a semblance of her former self.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.