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No prep or anything, just combat. Batman is equipped with all of his standard weapons however.


Batman

vs.

Reed


who wins?

Reed

Originally posted by Inhuman
Reed



Yup...

Assuming Reed is also equipped with all of his normal attire (UN) and such... 7/10

Reed bulks up to thing size and crushes Bats.

Batman. bat-grenade down Reed's throat FTW.

or maybe a few dozen sharp batarangs slice through Reed.

reed

Batman...he's a better fighter..and has downed guys much tougher than Reed...without Prep.

Originally posted by guy222
reed

Originally posted by Tony Stark
Yup...

Assuming Reed is also equipped with all of his normal attire (UN) and such... 7/10




So you think Reed would only win 7/10 with the Ultimate Nullifier?

And there's no UN in this battle btw.

The UN isn't part of Reed's normal attire. He doesn't take it with him wherever he goes...lol If he did...no one would beat him....below multi-versal level.

Batman.

He's already familiar with somebody that has the same powers as Reed, only better.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Batman.

He's already familiar with somebody that has the same powers as Reed, only better.

And?

He still would lose to either one w/o prep.


He knows all Superman's powers too, doesn't mean he has any chance of beating him.

Originally posted by Madvillain
Batman is equipped with all of his standard weapons however.




Batman.

No, he wouldn't.



Did you just use this as an example in trying to prove your point ?

Lulz.

If bloodlusted, Reed could easily mummify and smother Batman...any other type match...Batman takes the majority due to killer instinct and training advantages.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
No, he wouldn't.



Did you just use this as an example in trying to prove your point ?

Lulz.

Tell me how Batman would beat Reed then.


I used the example to show your flawed logic.

lulz

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/49/131198874_fbdee12a67_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/54/131198873_d440712b44_o.jpg

Since he is equipped with all of his standart weapons, I guess that's pretty much self explinatory.



No, actually you used a flawed example to counter a pretty simple thing to understand.

reed sends batman to the negative zone

Originally posted by Silent Master
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/49/131198874_fbdee12a67_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/54/131198873_d440712b44_o.jpg

Originally posted by Madvillain
So you think Reed would only win 7/10 with the Ultimate Nullifier?

And there's no UN in this battle btw.


UN=Batkick=Galactus

It's not self explanatory to me, so I would like you to explain how Batman would win, you seem pretty confident in your opinion, it shouldn't be a hard thing for you to prove.


And your logic that because Batman knows someone with similar powers to Reed gives Batman the win is flawed.

I'm waiting

You mean besides using things from his utility belt such as gas or the like ?

He also engineered a virus capable of taking down Plastic Man with which he destabilized his molecular structure. He could do the same thing to Reed.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/PlasticManMrFant.jpg



In this case, it does.
And comparing Batman knowing Superman to Batman knowing Plastic Man is ridiculous to say the least.

Originally posted by Mindset
I'm waiting

That smiley wasn't for you.

I laughed at Grey Fox's post.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
You mean besides using things from his utility belt such as gas or the like ?

He also engineered a virus capable of taking down Plastic Man with which he destabilized his molecular structure. He could do the same thing to Reed.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/PlasticManMrFant.jpg



In this case, it does.
And comparing Batman knowing Superman to Batman knowing Plastic Man is ridiculous to say the least.

You realize Bruce has no prep in this fight right? How would he have an engineered virus ready for Reed?

Reed doesn't have to stand there and be affected by the gas, I assume he is allowed to move in this fight.

Reed could wrap himself around Bruce and just suffocate him.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
You mean besides using things from his utility belt such as gas or the like ?

He also engineered a virus capable of taking down Plastic Man with which he destabilized his molecular structure. He could do the same thing to Reed.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/PlasticManMrFant.jpg



In this case, it does.
And comparing Batman knowing Superman to Batman knowing Plastic Man is ridiculous to say the least.

While I'm pretty neutral in this particular debate, wouldn't that virus be useless considering it's based on Plastic Mans molecules and not Reeds ?

He already has the virus engineered, there would be no need for him to study Reed beforehand.



Who says he has to stand there to be affected by the gas ?

Lulz at this 'counter-argument'



Who says he'd get the chance ?

Originally posted by grey fox
While I'm pretty neutral in this particular debate, wouldn't that virus be useless considering it's based on Plastic Mans molecules and not Reeds ?

It destabilizes molecular structure, I don't see why it wouldn't work on Reed.

Would something he used prep to create for a specific character and only used once really be considered 'standard equipment'?

The virus isn't standard equipment for Batman, using it one time doesn't make it standard equipment. Plastic Man =/= Reed, so even if he did have it there is no guarantee it would work.

Yes, it's funny that Reed can get out of the gas affected area...

Who says he wouldn't get the chance? What would Bruce do to stop Reed?

I consider that similar to the kryptonite ring used to fight Superman.

And since the comic is relativly recent, and it's not like he fights Plastic Man everyday, it's logical that it hasn't been showed many times.

And as I said, since it's used to destabilize the molecular structure, and it's has been used on a character with pretty much the same powers as Reed only at a higher level, I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Batman could also use sonics on Reed.

And even if Reed somehow managed to grab a hold of him, Batman could always use the belt to shock him.

Points to previously posted scans.

Electric and/or fire and/or gas and/or freezing batkajiggers? Did I win the prize?

Plasic man is an idiot compared to Reed.
Reed trumps bruce in the mind department. So outsmarting him wont be as easy as some think.

To finish this argument I'd like to compare the plastic man/reed richards debate with another comparable analogy... superman v superman prime

Plastic man's powers come from chemical's...
Reeds from cosmic rays...
while both are human... and display similar abilities.. they were derived in different ways...

in superman v superman prime... both men's powers are derived exactly the same.. from the fact that in their respective universes they are kryptonians... that are empowered by a yellow sun.

However in the mainstream dc universe.... superman prime is unaffected by kryptonite being as his genetic makeup, though similar is still different.

And thats superman v superman prime... same basis for powers... some genetic background.... yet kryptonite doesn't work on prime...

I think batman wins this contest hands down.

Batman, I mean he know Plastic Man and Elongated man, he surely has something in his belt to beat them. Reed is nothing more then another rubber man, with more brain (arguable) but less fighting skill.

Batman tosses liquid nitrogen capsules at him ftw.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Batman, I mean he know Plastic Man and Elongated man, he surely has something in his belt to beat them. Reed is nothing more then another rubber man, with more brain (arguable) but less fighting skill.

How is that arguable?

Originally posted by Silent Master
How is that arguable?





Come on SM... Everyone knows that Reed is a mental midget.

Reed

Batman wins. He has plans to take out most of the core powerful Justice League members. Bruce carries Liquid-Hydrogen capsules, electrical/taser devices, various arrays of different gas pellets, foam pellets(Clayface), and possibly the potion that Erik-Lensherr pointed out. His training heavily involves agility, dodging, and evading. I can't see Reed getting a hold of Bruce and even if he does the Batsuit's defence mechanisms will kick in. It has a high(exact number escapes me) shock voltage on it if anyone comes into contact with it. **** Bats probably has some acid in his belt. I say Bruce takes 7/10 if not more.

Batman. Look, Reed is hard to take down (by a non-powered human) due to the nature of his power. Kung-fu a glob of silly putty all day, but you're not going to hurt it. But what can Reed do to Batman? I think the second Reed closes with him, Bats whips out acid capsules, or gas, or sonics... and down goes stretchy (Batmans familiarity with such an opponent gives him quite an edge).
Now give Reed a piece of string, a screwdriver, and a Easy Bake oven, and he could build a time machine or something to beat the Bat, but that's not the case now, is it?

Batman wins, his gear is just too versatile and powerful.

Pretty much, Reed's not the world's best fighter. I doubt he can plan as great on his feet in a fight like Batman.

Didn't Batman just own Plastic Man? He basically is a super Reed.

Originally posted by Silent Master
How is that arguable?

He may be more intelligent then Bruce but he isn't smarter if you know what i mean . I think Elongated Man would outsmart Reed too .

Yea...you don't know what smarter means.

He means that Reed has a complete lack of common sense.

Examples.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Yea...you don't know what smarter means.

Sry for my bad english. I will try to explain it to you. Reed is a Genius, a Nerd, he can craft a lot of things he learnd even more, his intellect is focused on science. Batman is cunning, thinks more strategic and can outsmart people like Reed. I could explain it better in german but i hope you get now what i mean. Reed may be an genius but he is also an idiot.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Examples.

It comes with the territory of being absolutely brilliant. Reed is book smart. In many cases, he's shown a complete lack of common sense.

Essentially, he's so smart that he's dumb.

Reed is a super-genius when it comes to Science and Mathematics. Wayne is more of all-round know it all type guy. His smarts centers around Detective work, Forensics, Martial Arts, Stealth, and Criminal Phsycology.

Originally posted by batdude123
It comes with the territory of being absolutely brilliant. Reed is book smart. In many cases, he's shown a complete lack of common sense.

Essentially, he's so smart that he's dumb.

Examples?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Examples?

"Lets clone Thor. It'll be easy and nothing can go wrong."

"I've called you here because it would take me weeks to reach your level of expertize in this field." - He actually said that to Pym

Reed's a bit oblivious. He actually has some traits of high functioning autism.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
"Lets clone Thor. It'll be easy and nothing can go wrong."

"I've called you here because it would take me weeks to reach your level of expertize in this field." - He actually said that to Pym

Plus, when it comes to finishing a scientific challenge, he completely neglects his family which has put Reed and Sue's marriage in trouble.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Reed's a bit oblivious. He actually has some traits of high functioning autism.

Aspergers.

Let me make protocols that can be used against the JLA, what could go wrong?

Let me build Brother Eye, what could go wrong?.

"Let's piss off the Hulk. What could go wrong?"

The WWH storyline. That's what could go wrong.

Reed's mind is uber, in fact, it's cosmic.


The entire Marvel Omniverse was re-built with his mental guidance.

Reed has gone to "Hell" to "Heaven"

Reed a lesser alternate) became an aspect of Eternity (an entire Universe)

Reed managed to pull a fast one on the LT.
(I know, Btaman ko'd Spectre) Both make me

If Reed wanted,
with his tech ... he could conquer/destroy the entire Marvel Omniverse anytime.
(just an alternate (Not "What if" garbage) of his can ... so imagine the 616 template)

...................................

I'm just giving persepctive yall ...

Who wins?

I don't know.

Originally posted by Mr Master
(I know, Btaman ko'd Spectre) Both make me

Never happened..

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Myth: Batman's kick hurt Spectre
Tales of the Unexpected #4
How many times did we hear that Batman hurt the Spectre with the bat-kick? To many to count, but in reality it did nothing and Sprectre even mentions he made to make Batman feel good about the situation as it was hopeless for him.

1. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/019.jpg
2. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/020.jpg

Like I said before, there's a difference between being book smart and being cunning.

Common sense is a stranger to Reed Richards... he has Aspergers.

Kinda like how Einstein wasn't able to tie his shoes until he was 12.

Originally posted by batdude123
"Let's piss off the Hulk. What could go wrong?"

The WWH storyline. That's what could go wrong.

Let me leave yet another set a plans unlocked so Spolier can steal them.

1. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/marveltwoinone83_05.jpg
2. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/marveltwoinone83_06.jpg

Originally posted by batdude123
"Let's piss off the Hulk. What could go wrong?"

The WWH storyline. That's what could go wrong.

Pretty skewed view of actually events...

Originally posted by Mindset
Pretty skewed view of actually events...

We can't kill it. It feeds on anger. It has a tendency to get back home and always holds a grudge.

Let's shoot into space and not check up on what happens.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
We can't kill it. It feeds on anger. It has a tendency to get back home and always holds a grudge.

Let's shoot into space and not check up on what happens.


Still distorted.

Yes, let's just ignore the fact that the reason Hulk came back to Earth was because Miek blew up the planet and let Hulk believe it was Reed and co...

And they could have killed him, but they opted to send him away instead.

Batman wins.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Never happened..
That's unfortunate ... cause Reed really did pull a fast one on the LT.

On a ready, set, go, fight (with no prep) I guess Bats wins, I wouldn't know,
although Reed is pretty impressive in hand to hand combat,
I think cats are sleeping on him, and his incredibly versatile body.

But anyways, I really won't debate that.

Now with prep,

imo, Reed rules all ... well definitely in Marvel. (yes, including Doom)

Cats?

Originally posted by Mr Master
I think cats are sleeping on him, and his incredibly versatile body.


. . .


Well that's a cool fetish.

Originally posted by Mr Master
That's unfortunate ... cause Reed really did pull a fast one on the LT.

On a ready, set, go, fight (with no prep) I guess Bats wins, I wouldn't know,
although Reed is pretty impressive in hand to hand combat,
I think cats are sleeping on him, and his incredibly versatile body.

But anyways, I really won't debate that.

Now with prep,

imo, Reed rules all ... well definitely in Marvel. (yes, including Doom)

I agree.

I disagree.

And Thanos > Reed

Originally posted by batdude123
Like I said before, there's a difference between being book smart and being cunning.

Common sense is a stranger to Reed Richards... he has Aspergers.



It's true that these days the writers have made him this way. It wasn't always the case though. For most of his history he did actually show a lot of talent for strategy and off-the-cuff thinking even in the middle of battles. I think the later writers decided a personality shift would be more interesting. It wasn't particularly - they just made him annoying.

And the modern Batman has been given his own brand of psychological problems - a complete inability to maintain any successful relationship with another human being, little ability to have a normal conversation with anyone, monomania, obsession etc. Plus a seeming inability to apply common sense to his own plans - for example even Homer Simpson probably could have anticipated what would go wrong with Brother Eye, the JLA protocols etc. But Batman was too obsessed to see it (last I saw was that Eye seems to be becoming a galactic level threat - that must trump WWH, Clor & Pym's creation of Ultron combined).

They both have their weaknesses to exploit.

I'd still go 50/50 here but only because Batman has some dangerous standard weapons like gas/freeze capsules/tasers etc that might be able to tag Reed.

Originally posted by basilisk
It's true that these days the writers have made him this way. It wasn't always the case though. For most of his history he did actually show a lot of talent for strategy and off-the-cuff thinking even in the middle of battles. I think the later writers decided a personality shift would be more interesting. It wasn't particularly - they just made him annoying.

And the modern Batman has been given his own brand of psychological problems - a complete inability to maintain any successful relationship with another human being, little ability to have a normal conversation with anyone, monomania, obsession etc. Plus a seeming inability to apply common sense to his own plans - for example even Homer Simpson probably could have anticipated what would go wrong with Brother Eye, the JLA protocols etc. But Batman was too obsessed to see it (last I saw was that Eye seems to be becoming a galactic level threat - that must trump WWH, Clor & Pym's creation of Ultron combined).

They both have their weaknesses to exploit.

I'd still go 50/50 here but only because Batman has some dangerous standard weapons like gas/freeze capsules/tasers etc that might be able to tag Reed. Fair enough.

Reeds is smart but applying that to H2H combat is a different thing. Sure his smarts will work to an extent but Bats is more intelligent than Reed in this department.

is Reed nekkid ? because if not Reed has some standard gear of his own that will help him in neutralizing some of Batman's equipment. and Reed has stood his ground up to some of marvel's heavy hitters (Thor, Hulk, Namor, and even won a couple of fights. ) Reed has some impressive tactical prowess (he lead the FF in numerious adventures) and his powerset is nothing to sneeze at.

I'd take Reed. More times than not he could restrain and or smother Batman before he could pose a counter offensive.

Also, in regards to Reed being "book smart" versus "common sense smart", it's really a non issue because he's proven time and time again that he's combat smart and can think under fire and form solutions on the fly.

Reed would make Bruce get shocked by his own suit... Or something. There are several easy counter attacks that Reed could use against Bruce if attacked in a certain way, its kind of a coin toss depending in what Bruce decides to use.

and how would he do that. It's the exact opposite IMO. as soon as Richars lays so much as a finger on Wayne he will be electrocuted.

bump.

I'm fairly sure that Reed's suit is insulated, however even if it's not his elastic nature should keep him from being injured by an electric shock.

batman hes taken down much tougher and more determined foes in fact heres a list for all those reed fanboys
superman
entire jla
amazo
captian america
white martians
judge dredd
green lantern
lex luthor
red skull
countless street level criminals
the kingpin
carnage
venom

Originally posted by carnage52
reed fanboys

Originally posted by Jugglenaut
why do people keep on quoteing me and putting lol faces please stop!!!!

Batman wins this.

Originally posted by carnage52
reed fanboys

Originally posted by Eon Blue
Batman wins this.

How?

Originally posted by carnage52
reed fanboys

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Batman.

He's already familiar with somebody that has the same powers as Reed, only better.


Bats is familiar with someone with similar powers but, that one is like Drax the dumb and the other one has an IQ of around 800. Not quite the same.

GO DRAX THE DUMB!

bats

Reeds rape him

PlasticMan and Ivy would destroy Reed in H2H

They can beat someone that can duplicate cl 70 strength in hth?

Originally posted by Silent Master
They can beat someone that can duplicate cl 70 strength in hth? Do you know who Plastic Man is?

Originally posted by shiv
PlasticMan and Ivy would destroy Reed in H2H

Maybe in pure confrontation.
But the fact is that Reed's intelligence >>>>>> Bruce Wayne's and

Reed's would so kill Batman. He would make a device to resurrect him and kill him again, and again, and again.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Do you know who Plastic Man is?

Yes.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Yes. Then you should know that he's capable of very high powered strength himself, and that Reed's amping would be ineffectual.

reed has some pretty good battle skills, mostly reallying on his malleability and shape changing.

this is him vs an almost savage hulk:

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/5823/rvh1wd5.th.jpg
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/9403/rvh2zh1.th.jpg

he didn't make his fist's into hammers but he can.

Batman for the mindrape.

Batman's standard equipment consists of whatever the KMC person arguing in his favor wants it to. His belt only has maybe 10-20 pouches, but he still carries 100+ items including apparently liquid nitrogen bombs in glass containers, which doesnt seem especially safe. And yeah he'd just electrocute Reed if he got grabbed. Just like he did to Bane, Croc, Slade, Clayface, and others. Oh...except he didnt. As for gas, Reed wouldnt even think of using his arms like propellers to push the gas back at Batman. Oh I forgot Batman instantly has his gas mask on, which he also always carries....
Look I like Batman a hell of a lot more than Reed, but we arent being reasonable here. As soon as the fight starts, Batman will be dodging giant fists thrown from 20 feet away backed with enough force to stun Namor. I'd have to give at least 6 out of 10 to Reed.

Batman was getting mauled by Superman on the watchtower and still was able to use his head and activated the security systems. He's no pushover either. 5/5

How exactly does Batman get mauled by Superman? Superman cant knock Batman out with a flick of his finger? Or restrain him indefinately? I didnt see this comic, but that just doesnt sound right. A guy who can lift 100+ tons and move at the speed of light shouldnt have to maul a human. He should either be able to beat him quickly or stop him from fighting. Unless its another case of Clark being a douche bag.

Reed. Faster. Stronger. Superior range. Completely unconventional. Jest too many physical advantages.

I believe it was in Sacrifice when sups was being controlled. . .he thought Batman was one of the villains. I'll have to look for it to be sure.

Reed has controll over his body's form and density

Batman and Robin are accustomed to opponents with greater power

Amazo Brainiac Omacs Ivy Clayface Vixen Beast Boy Beast BoyII Madame Rogue Parasite and Etrigan have tested The Batman. All have failed.

Batman has beaten them yeah, but how often with standard gear? And of course Batman won, hes the goodguy. You always have to add your own grain of salt to the fights on these boards, since the hero always has to win in the end. He has had trouble with Clayface before who is kinda in the same vein as Reed.
Also the fact that he thought he'd need a virus to beat Plastic Man kinda shows that he wasnt confident he could take him otherwise.

Shall we now list all the people Reed has beaten that are smarter and/or more powerful than Batman?

Batlepathy FTW.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Shall we now list all the people Reed has beaten that are smarter and/or more powerful than Batman?


I believe we should. FTR Amazo Brainiac (isn't smarter than Reed).

Reed has beaten Doom 1 on 1 in a knock down drag out. Bats couldn't do the same.

Batman is sure to win. Because of his standard gear. Batman cannot fight reed with out his equipment just like reed cannot fight batman without his elastic power. So as it stands now they are on equal ground. However batman carries the various gas grenades, explosive batarangs, tear gas, sleeping gas, electric batarangs. Either one of these should be enough to take out reed. When used smartly in combination with any of the other standard gear batman is said to carry.

IOW


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/49/131198874_fbdee12a67_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/54/131198873_d440712b44_o.jpg

batman.

I think he has liquid nitrogen grenades in his utility belt

Originally posted by redhotrash
he thought he'd need a virus to beat Plastic Man kinda shows that he wasnt confident he could take him otherwise.


Plastic Man is DC Apocalypse with a sunny disposition, sans energy projection, Celestial Ship and TP.

Stalemating and then procceding to Subdue a Teamwrecking Bloodlusted Manhunter at his Telepathic Peak is a strong feat.

There are 3 kinds of people Batman should never contemplate fighting. Guys with deadly projectile powers, guys with super speed and guys who can manipulate their body structure to the extent of Reed Richards (and lets be honest Clay Face isn't on Reed's level).

bump.

I still say Reed takes this. For one Batman simply cant carry that much gear on him at once. Gas would be useless since Reed can fan it back. Any type of grenade or explosive should work either as Reed can soften his hand, catch them, and throw them right back. This is also all assuming that Reed is going to stand there while batman goes through his pack.