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Which team wins?

Depends on which version of Hulk as he may very well be the weak link.

all current versions

Hulk for the blitz.

team two

Team 2

I'm leaning towards wonder woman and supergirl. Both Hulk and Thor lack speed. Wonder wowan can stalemate Thor long enough for Supergirl to defeat Hulk. In addition, supergirl's versatility gives her the nod against the green giant. Afterwards, her and diana team up against Thor.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Hulk for the blitz.












wait, is this red hulk?

Originally posted by Aztec123
I'm leaning towards wonder woman and supergirl. Both Hulk and Thor lack speed. Wonder wowan can stalemate Thor long enough for Supergirl to defeat Hulk. In addition, supergirl's versatility gives her the nod against the green giant. Afterwards, her and diana team up against Thor.

Yea, I don't see WW handling Thor for long.

orgy?

Originally posted by Mindset
Yea, I don't see WW handling Thor for long.

Diana has prove to be a tough opponent, her and Thor are interchangeable. WW has impressive strength feats comparable to Superman. She's stalemated Captain Marvel, done well against Superman, defeated White martians. Add in her speed and trinkets making her more than a match for Thor.

Originally posted by Aztec123
Both Hulk and Thor lack speed. I KNOW you're not talking about current Hulk. 131

Originally posted by Aztec123
, defeated White martians. .

By holding her breath...

Go Team!!

Team 2 wins.

Originally posted by Aztec123
Diana has prove to be a tough opponent, her and Thor are interchangeable. WW has impressive strength feats comparable to Superman. She's stalemated Captain Marvel, done well against Superman, defeated White martians. Add in her speed and trinkets making her more than a match for Thor.

Diana will get a face full of hammer.

Originally posted by Mindset
Diana will get a face full of hammer. ...

Thor likes his wenches. 131

Thor and hulk win

Originally posted by Martian_mind
By holding her breath...

Go Team!!

It's still considered a win

Originally posted by Mindset
Diana will get a face full of hammer.


How will she get hit, if she is avoiding the hammer?
Is she going to wait for him to hit her?
What if Diana lassoes Thor?
As i said before, it can go either way.
However, she can go toe to to long enough for supergirl to defeat Hulk.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
...

Thor likes his wenches. 131

Who doesn't

Originally posted by Aztec123
I'm leaning towards wonder woman and supergirl. Both Hulk and Thor lack speed. Wonder wowan can stalemate Thor long enough for Supergirl to defeat Hulk. In addition, supergirl's versatility gives her the nod against the green giant. Afterwards, her and diana team up against Thor.

Exactly.

two chicks beating two of marvels heavy weights - I am not easy with that decision, although I have to admit Hulk is a bit 1dimensional. If this is current WWH then I gotta go with the guys

Red Hulk is a blur to everyone apparently.

Thor has versatility with his hammer. But the DC team has the speed neccisary to take it. Supergirl has too many powers on Hulk. Not to mention flight and BFR.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Thor has versatility with his hammer. But the DC team has the speed neccisary to take it. Supergirl has too many powers on Hulk. Not to mention flight and BFR.

Hulk has fought plenty of folk with versatility and come out on top. Thor is just a bad ass definitely superior to the ww or sg

Not with someone who could use heat vision at the level of a Krptonian or arctic breath.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Not with someone who could use heat vision at the level of a Krptonian or arctic breath.

Heat vision and ice breath are not beating either Thor or Hulk.

you can burn hulk to a crisp he still keeps coming all you will do is make him infinitely stronger. Gladiator tried this on the hulk didn't work

thor blocks energy blasts with his hammer all the time

and arctic breath seriously man that is not stopping hulk who can adapt to almost any environment so he can actually breath under water for instance. And cold breath to a god who commands the weather and can exist in space

I was speaking of those aginst Hulk. Let's say Supergirl blows Hulk with Arctic Breath. She picks him up and flings him somewhere else(BFR). They both double team Thor.

I really doubt ice breath will keep Hulk frozen for any significant time, if at all.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
I was speaking of those aginst Hulk. Let's say Supergirl blows Hulk with Arctic Breath. She picks him up and flings him somewhere else(BFR). They both double team Thor.

a possible scenario granted.

Hulk moves pretty fast though. The guy can leap into orbit so he's got pretty mean acceleration on him. Not sure you can simply tag him with ice he's not gonna just stand their he can use his sonic slaps or earth strikes. He could even just glow green and shake it off

Supergirl's speed>>>>>>Hulk's. Even on foot.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Supergirl's speed>>>>>>Hulk's. Even on foot.

not disputed

but Hulks speed is always under estimated in fact I think I am the only guy who ever argues it. He can go from 0- nearly seven miles a sec in an instant. You don;t believe me look up what the escape velocity of the earth is
geek

I believe Hulk can run up to speeds of 300 MPH on foot. Hulk won'e be able to react to Kara.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
I believe Hulk can run up to speeds of 300 MPH on foot. Hulk won'e be able to react to Kara.

ultimate hulk was timed at about 300mph running. 616 hulk rarely runs he leaps. To leap almost into orbit requires an almost instant acceleration to around 20 -25 thousand mph. Thats pretty good accelration by any speedsters standards

Originally posted by severance
two chicks beating two of marvels heavy weights - I am not easy with that decision, although I have to admit Hulk is a bit 1dimensional. If this is current WWH then I gotta go with the guys

Oh please. Two chicks who are themselves heavyweights, especially when one is a kryptonian and both can take punches from Superman. Plus they've got the speed blitz. Yeah its two big massively muscular guys against two women, one who looks thin and weak. Its easy to just look at them and think, Its obvious who wins this. But looks means nothing as to how powerful they are. Gotta give this one to the chicks.

Originally posted by SupremeMan
Oh please. Two chicks who are themselves heavyweights, especially when one is a kryptonian and both can take punches from Superman. Plus they've got the speed blitz. Yeah its two big massively muscular guys against two women, one who looks thin and weak. Its easy to just look at them and think, Its obvious who wins this. But looks means nothing as to how powerful they are. Gotta give this one to the chicks.

you know what you're probably right I was being mysoginistic. Appearances can be deceiving (heck Superman is only 225lbs).

Still don't seeing them being enough to take out Hulk and Thor. Taking shots from Superman means jack btw. Lesser guys quite often take shots from tougher guys to let them have a good showing (i.e. thing stood up to Champion for 2 rounds)

The deciding factor here is Mjolinr (or however the hell you spell it!)- that hammer is a killing machine folks, and Thor knows how to use it. One blow would cave in either girls skulls if delivered w/ full strength, and anyone who says otherwise is either deluded or just flat-out lying. Supie's and Wondie's best chance is to start making out with each other and hope, that in fit of lust and madness, Thor and Hulk kill each other trying to get to them.

One hit wouldn't beat them

Originally posted by Cap'n Happy
The deciding factor here is Mjolinr (or however the hell you spell it!)- that hammer is a killing machine folks, and Thor knows how to use it. One blow would cave in either girls skulls if delivered w/ full strength, and anyone who says otherwise is either deluded or just flat-out lying. Supie's and Wondie's best chance is to start making out with each other and hope, that in fit of lust and madness, Thor and Hulk kill each other trying to get to them.

Neither deluded nor lying. Wonder Woman took an all-out punch from Superman. One hit from Mjolnir is not going to kill her. Why would anybody think that? The Hulk, the Thing, Superman, etc., have all taken hard hits from Mjolnir. Just because she's a woman? Don't think so. And Supergirl has taken hits from some tough opponents. Even if she's half Superman's power or even one third his physical strength, that's still a lot of power.

By the way, I really don't count stuff like Marvel/ DC crossovers as being worth anything for proof. Thor hanging with Superman in a crossover is fine but I've always felt that, traditionally, the Marvel power scale was way below the DC scale. Making two heroes seem more equal when they fight each other is a tradition.

I believe these folks are all in approximately the same power region, strength wise (give or take). But it's like this; if warriors of equal strength fought, but one of them had a massive, iron war hammer- who do you think would win? Mjolinir hits ten, twenty times harder than Thors fists- just like in the real world such a weapon greatly ups a warriors blows. And those times Thor had 'tapped' the Thing and others w/ the hammer, he was GREATLY holding back. Check out the power he unleashes in his battles w/ Celestials, Mangog, Destroyer, and it is clear: the hammer is death itself in the hands of the thunder god.

Originally posted by SupremeMan
Neither deluded nor lying. Wonder Woman took an all-out punch from Superman. One hit from Mjolnir is not going to kill her. Why would anybody think that? The Hulk, the Thing, Superman, etc., have all taken hard hits from Mjolnir. Just because she's a woman? Don't think so. And Supergirl has taken hits from some tough opponents. Even if she's half Superman's power or even one third his physical strength, that's still a lot of power.

By the way, I really don't count stuff like Marvel/ DC crossovers as being worth anything for proof. Thor hanging with Superman in a crossover is fine but I've always felt that, traditionally, the Marvel power scale was way below the DC scale. Making two heroes seem more equal when they fight each other is a tradition.

apparently avengers vs jla is cannon read it somewhere not sure where so don't ask me to confirm. You are right often seems as if DC operates on higher power levels a fact alluded to in the the crossover. I don't hink Marvel is too far behind people get too hung up on Marvel handooks which are in the main pretty inaccurate.
However Thor and Hulk are two fellas who do operate at DC levels of ridiculous power. Hulk has quite literally limitless strength nigh invulnerable and a healing factor thats off the scale. I think SG can give him a scare but will eventually go down. Thor is a god. Wonderwoman derives her power from the gods Thor is a god

Hulk is the weak link.

Team one could win if they double team. But Hulk could distracted them long enough...possibly. Bit undecided but team one for now.

Hulk and Thor will not make a good team. They'd have no concept of teamwork.

Diana and Kara on the other hand have worked together before and trained together on Themyscira. Points to them.

Hulk is the weak link. He can't fly and he's too damn slow.

Wonder Woman will naturally head towards Thor. She'll sense his godhood lineage and would leave the green lummox to Kara.

Kara would win for the same reasons Superman would. If she can't beat him, than she'll do the same thing she did to Flamberge in Teen Titans: throw his ass into space.

WW can more than hold her own against Thor. After Supergirl deals with Hulk, they double him into a KO.

could go either way.

thor could teleleprot both super girl and wonder woman and they win via bfr

or thor could just teleport super girl or wonder woman and thor and hulk would double team the one left for the win

or thor could just godblast them or steal their souls

but then again

wonderwoman and supergirl can both bfr hulk coz they can fly and they'd double team thor

or wonderwoman would and supergirl can take the fight to the air where only thor can follow leaving the hulk on the ground

majority goes to wonderwoman and supergirl.

the hulks the weak link here.

give him the abiltiy to fly like wonderwoman then thor and hulk would take the majority.

Originally posted by Draco69
Hulk and Thor will not make a good team. They'd have no concept of teamwork.

Diana and Kara on the other hand have worked together before and trained together on Themyscira. Points to them.

Hulk is the weak link. He can't fly and he's too damn slow.

Wonder Woman will naturally head towards Thor. She'll sense his godhood lineage and would leave the green lummox to Kara.

Kara would win for the same reasons Superman would. If she can't beat him, than she'll do the same thing she did to Flamberge in Teen Titans: throw his ass into space.

WW can more than hold her own against Thor. After Supergirl deals with Hulk, they double him into a KO. Pretty much.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
could go either way.

thor could teleleprot both super girl and wonder woman and they win via bfr

or thor could just teleport super girl or wonder woman and thor and hulk would double team the one left for the win

or thor could just godblast them or steal their souls

but then again

wonderwoman and supergirl can both bfr hulk coz they can fly and they'd double team thor

or wonderwoman would and supergirl can take the fight to the air where only thor can follow leaving the hulk on the ground

majority goes to wonderwoman and supergirl.

the hulks the weak link here.

give him the abiltiy to fly like wonderwoman then thor and hulk would take the majority. Hulk is to slow even if he flied. Give him speed and he would be a threat to allot of people.

But he doesn't so he loses.

Originally posted by Lil Buddy
Hulk is to slow even if he flied. Give him speed and he would be a threat to allot of people.

But he doesn't so he loses.

yeah, thats why i said to give him flight like wounder woman

just being able to fly wouldnt really mean much. if he could fly like wonder woman speed wise etc etc. he'd give almost everyone a run for their money.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
yeah, thats why i said to give him flight like wounder woman

just being able to fly wouldnt really mean much. if he could fly like wonder woman speed wise etc etc. he'd give almost everyone a run for their money.

hulk is not as slow as you think read my previous posts on speed and refute me book

Originally posted by Aztec123
I'm leaning towards wonder woman and supergirl. Both Hulk and Thor lack speed. Wonder wowan can stalemate Thor long enough for Supergirl to defeat Hulk. In addition, supergirl's versatility gives her the nod against the green giant. Afterwards, her and diana team up against Thor.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Originally posted by severance
apparently avengers vs jla is cannon read it somewhere not sure where so don't ask me to confirm. You are right often seems as if DC operates on higher power levels a fact alluded to in the the crossover. I don't hink Marvel is too far behind people get too hung up on Marvel handooks which are in the main pretty inaccurate.
However Thor and Hulk are two fellas who do operate at DC levels of ridiculous power. Hulk has quite literally limitless strength nigh invulnerable and a healing factor thats off the scale. I think SG can give him a scare but will eventually go down. Thor is a god. Wonderwoman derives her power from the gods Thor is a god When was it alluded to that dc operated on higher power scales?

Please show me the scan.

Supergirl & Wonderwoman going down.

Hulk > One of if not THE strongest hitters in Marvel (debatable I know)
Thor > Powers to rival Superman

Neither Supergirl or Wonderwoman is on Superman's level (proved enough times).

Originally posted by Aztec123
Both Hulk and Thor lack speed.

Not really.

Originally posted by severance
hulk is not as slow as you think read my previous posts on speed and refute me book

yup, read em and yup, i do agree that he's not as slow as many think. he's just not that fast. his durabiltiy and strengh makes up for the lack in speed but if his opponets have comparable strength and durabiltiy and better speeds, he'd have a hard time winning.

which is why i found the stentry hulk fight quite distastefull. sentry was hyped to be superman on steroids but ends up just being superman lite.

Sentry jobbed

He had to, everyone else did.

Originally posted by Mindset
Sentry jobbed

He had to, everyone else did.

or maybe nobody jobbed...

maybe wwh was just that strong??



hmmmmm........

Or maybe...Hulk's life got flipped turned upside down
and I'd like to take a minute just sit right there,
I'll tell you how he became the Prince of a town called Bel-Air

Originally posted by severance
not disputed

but Hulks speed is always under estimated in fact I think I am the only guy who ever argues it. He can go from 0- nearly seven miles a sec in an instant. You don;t believe me look up what the escape velocity of the earth is
geek

The problem you are making is mistaking human movement dynamics with simple linear speed. For instance, believe it or not you jump very fast ....but you cannot run at that speed.

In the same way that some people can throw a 90mph fastball, faster than a typical scooter, but that doesn't mean that they can run at 90 mph.

The dynamic process of the human jumping model and joint speeds can be quite high, but that does not mean that just because your skeletal muscles in the leg can manage to exert themselves greatly over a very brief period of time and propel you quite fast upwards that those same muscles will enable you to outrace a person in a car (or for that matter, on a skateboard).

It is bad science to assume that. It would be like saying that because you can snap your fingers very fast that that is your level of speed.

Moving on to comics .....even if we throw out all science and stick to the world of capes, eyes that shoot fire, and folk with green skin, it is still illogical to even compare the speed of the Hulk to that of any TRUE speedster.

People like Supergirl can move fast enough that they are invisible ....the level of speed mandated by such a feat (whereby a human sized being is moving so fast that they cannot be seen ....not even a blur) is astounding, to say the least.

Anyways, whether you try to apply real world physics, or simply stick to comic book lore, the fact still remains that the Hulk might as well be LITERALLY standing still if any TRUE speedster decides to blitz (per KMC rules). This is not to say that the Hulk is slow ....compared to humans (real or comic book) the Hulk is VERY fast .....you wouldn't be able to outrun him in a Lamborghini Murcielago for instance, or for that matter ANY real world car this side of the Batmobile. Thus the Green Dude is fast.

But he is no speedster, and against real speedsters he might as well be standing still.

lol, the bitches go down, hard.

WWH rapes them alone. Thor is useless.

Originally posted by FearOfBlood
WWH rapes them alone. Thor is useless.

Originally posted by spetznaz
The problem you are making is mistaking human movement dynamics with simple linear speed. For instance, believe it or not you jump very fast ....but you cannot run at that speed.

In the same way that some people can throw a 90mph fastball, faster than a typical scooter, but that doesn't mean that they can run at 90 mph.

The dynamic process of the human jumping model and joint speeds can be quite high, but that does not mean that just because your skeletal muscles in the leg can manage to exert themselves greatly over a very brief period of time and propel you quite fast upwards that those same muscles will enable you to outrace a person in a car (or for that matter, on a skateboard).

It is bad science to assume that. It would be like saying that because you can snap your fingers very fast that that is your level of speed.

Moving on to comics .....even if we throw out all science and stick to the world of capes, eyes that shoot fire, and folk with green skin, it is still illogical to even compare the speed of the Hulk to that of any TRUE speedster.

People like Supergirl can move fast enough that they are invisible ....the level of speed mandated by such a feat (whereby a human sized being is moving so fast that they cannot be seen ....not even a blur) is astounding, to say the least.

Anyways, whether you try to apply real world physics, or simply stick to comic book lore, the fact still remains that the Hulk might as well be LITERALLY standing still if any TRUE speedster decides to blitz (per KMC rules). This is not to say that the Hulk is slow ....compared to humans (real or comic book) the Hulk is VERY fast .....you wouldn't be able to outrun him in a Lamborghini Murcielago for instance, or for that matter ANY real world car this side of the Batmobile. Thus the Green Dude is fast.

But he is no speedster, and against real speedsters he might as well be standing still.

Some excellent points Spetznaz, finally someone willing to refute me. Cuople of retorts then.

Not disputing that WW or SG could speed blitz Hulk his reaction speed is not high.

Hulks running speed is irrelevant to a fight people rarely run in a fight except away when they are being beaten. But my point is Hulk has a very good chance of landing punches. If he can jump at 25000 mph (instant accelration) how fast can he launch his fists(which are of less mass (lets assume for the purposes of argument 50,000 mph). This is 67 times the speed of sound. Diana or Kara are not gonna have an easy time dodging this. (note also that moving that fst is gonna create a huge shockwave he would not even need to connect).

If we ignore pure science which doesn ot seem to work correctly in the comic world then we have to go on panel feats. Hulk taken on speedsters before and beaten them (non faster than Gladiator who i would argue is superior to SG and WW.

Over to you starwars

forgive all the spelling errors supposed to be at work

Originally posted by severance
Some excellent points Spetznaz, finally someone willing to refute me. Cuople of retorts then.

Not disputing that WW or SG could speed blitz Hulk his reaction speed is not high.

Hulks running speed is irrelevant to a fight people rarely run in a fight except away when they are being beaten. But my point is Hulk has a very good chance of landing punches. If he can jump at 25000 mph (instant accelration) how fast can he launch his fists(which are of less mass (lets assume for the purposes of argument 50,000 mph). This is 67 times the speed of sound. Diana or Kara are not gonna have an easy time dodging this. (note also that moving that fst is gonna create a huge shockwave he would not even need to connect).

If we ignore pure science which doesn ot seem to work correctly in the comic world then we have to go on panel feats. Hulk taken on speedsters before and beaten them (non faster than Gladiator who i would argue is superior to SG and WW.

Over to you starwars

From your comment I think we are on the same page on most issues, the main divergences being only two:
1) The extentity of Hulk's speed (whatever metric you use)
2) Whether or not that speed enables him to face off against the Kryptonian and the Amazon.

In the first case I maintain that while the Hulk is fast (e.g. 300mph), he is not speedster fast (unless you are using 1970s Marvel levels of a speedster). Extrapolating his jumping speed to 25,000 mph (I know how you came to that figure .....the velocity required to escape the pull of Earth's gravity), and doubling that to denote the speed of his fists, is stretching things a bit.

Let me quickly explain ....for instance say the Flash can move at c, does that mean he can jump at 10c (sudden release)? Does it mean then that he can punch even faster, to 4c? The extrapolation can get quite convoluted pretty fast.

The second issue is speed.

Thus, if we say a Hulk that can run at 300mph can jump at 25,000mph, and punch at 50,000 mph (per your figures), what does that mean a Kryptonian who can already move as fast as possible within Earth's atmosphere (and even faster without) can punch at?

Point is: If the Hulk's punching is extrapolated, then that should apply to the ladies as well. And that leads to a spider hole .....extrapolating an already uber-fast Kryptonian leads to some seriously warped speeds.

After all, a Hulk punching at 50K mph would be tantamount to Supergirl punching at pre-Crisis Superman levels.

Suffice it to say, speedwise the Hulk simply couldn't match up to the ladies in any extent.

(On the Gladiator bit ....and the Sentry bit ...well, it was in a comic. In much the same way Thor likes to punch people up even though with Mjolnir he could simply wipe out over 90% of the chaps he faces, or how the Flash has Gorilla Grodd for an enemy. Per KMC rules a chap like Captain Cold wouldn't even know there was a Flash before he was in prison.

Originally posted by spetznaz
From your comment I think we are on the same page on most issues, the main divergences being only two:
1) The extentity of Hulk's speed (whatever metric you use)
2) Whether or not that speed enables him to face off against the Kryptonian and the Amazon.

In the first case I maintain that while the Hulk is fast (e.g. 300mph), he is not speedster fast (unless you are using 1970s Marvel levels of a speedster). Extrapolating his jumping speed to 25,000 mph (I know how you came to that figure .....the velocity required to escape the pull of Earth's gravity), and doubling that to denote the speed of his fists, is stretching things a bit.

Let me quickly explain ....for instance say the Flash can move at c, does that mean he can jump at 10c (sudden release)? Does it mean then that he can punch even faster, to 4c? The extrapolation can get quite convoluted pretty fast.

The second issue is speed.

Thus, if we say a Hulk that can run at 300mph can jump at 25,000mph, and punch at 50,000 mph (per your figures), what does that mean a Kryptonian who can already move as fast as possible within Earth's atmosphere (and even faster without) can punch at?

Point is: If the Hulk's punching is extrapolated, then that should apply to the ladies as well. And that leads to a spider hole .....extrapolating an already uber-fast Kryptonian leads to some seriously warped speeds.

After all, a Hulk punching at 50K mph would be tantamount to Supergirl punching at pre-Crisis Superman levels.

Suffice it to say, speedwise the Hulk simply couldn't match up to the ladies in any extent.

(On the Gladiator bit ....and the Sentry bit ...well, it was in a comic. In much the same way Thor likes to punch people up even though with Mjolnir he could simply wipe out over 90% of the chaps he faces, or how the Flash has Gorilla Grodd for an enemy. Per KMC rules a chap like Captain Cold wouldn't even know there was a Flash before he was in prison.

Pleasure to debate with ya Spetznaz you use logic well.

I know I am using rather hard to prove extrapolations let me explain how they work (in my mind anyway)
Hulk can only run at 300mph because he doesn't have the leg cadence to go any faster without leaping
He jumps at nearly 25k mph as you point out cos this is earths escape velocity
he punches at 50kmph cos I can throw a fist faster than i can jump (say 90mph) reason being my fist weighs like a pound. Hulks fist may weigh 50lbs but its a lot lighter than his half ton body weight therefore he should be able to accelerate his fist faster. Please understand I don't think this actually happens in comics far from it such a punch would cause untold destruction.

as far as the two ladies being able to throw their punches faster not sure becuase their speed be it c or whatever is not based on strength like huc but something else at a guess Kara psionics and amazon god magic.
Can they achieve these speeds in the atmosphere (i dunno). BTW I am fully expecting you to shoot me down on this last paragraph as it is speculation.

I still think Huc can take out/stun the girls without touching them as a ranged attack like the sonic slap would be hard to avoid.

sp_ike

So your entire debate is based in speculation and extrapolation, then closes with saying a sonic clap will KO Supergirl and Wonder Woman?

Actually I think the hulks reaction speed is faster than his linear running speed. The hulk has been able to hit speedsters such as Quick silver and bluestreak when they attempted to speedblitz him, catch tankshells and grab speeding fighter jets and thats savage hulk. I am not so sure about supergirl but I know that quicksilver is faster than wonderwoman so hitting her would not be a problem. Supergirl is not nearly as strong as WWH or thor neither is she as durable as either of them. WWH can take care of wonderwoman as he is stronger(and will continue getting stronger) more durable plus an unbelievable HF. Thor can hit supergirl withth a barrage of lightning bolts which will weaken her and leave her extremely vulnerable. He will then proceed to pummel her to death with mjolnir

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Actually I think the hulks reaction speed is faster than his linear running speed. The hulk has been able to hit speedsters such as Quick silver and bluestreak when they attempted to speedblitz him, catch tankshells and grab speeding fighter jets and thats savage hulk. I am not so sure about supergirl but I know that quicksilver is faster than wonderwoman so hitting her would not be a problem. Supergirl is not nearly as strong as WWH or thor neither is she as durable as either of them. WWH can take care of wonderwoman as he is stronger(and will continue getting stronger) more durable plus an unbelievable HF. Thor can hit supergirl withth a barrage of lightning bolts which will weaken her and leave her extremely vulnerable. He will then proceed to pummel her to death with mjolnir Wonderwoman is a lot faster than Quicksilver with his speed powers.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Actually I think the hulks reaction speed is faster than his linear running speed. The hulk has been able to hit speedsters such as Quick silver and bluestreak when they attempted to speedblitz him, catch tankshells and grab speeding fighter jets and thats savage hulk. I am not so sure about supergirl but I know that quicksilver is faster than wonderwoman so hitting her would not be a problem. Supergirl is not nearly as strong as WWH or thor neither is she as durable as either of them. WWH can take care of wonderwoman as he is stronger(and will continue getting stronger) more durable plus an unbelievable HF. Thor can hit supergirl withth a barrage of lightning bolts which will weaken her and leave her extremely vulnerable. He will then proceed to pummel her to death with mjolnir

There are a lot of flaws in that post really.

WonderWoman and Supergirl are many times faster than ye olde Quicksilver, and hitting Supergirl with a "barrage" of magical lightning bolts would kill her.

Originally posted by Juntai
So your entire debate is based in speculation and extrapolation, then closes with saying a sonic clap will KO Supergirl and Wonder Woman?

Everything we debate here is speculaton and extrapolation. We are talking about comics here not the real world its not an exact science. I am just making a suggestion that applying real science to what we see on panel gives hulk ability to hit ww.

Hulk has hit speedsters on panel and i am backing it up with some logic and scientific/mathmatical extrapolation

Originally posted by severance
Everything we debate here is speculaton and extrapolation. We are talking about comics here not the real world its not an exact science. I am just making a suggestion that applying real science to what we see on panel gives hulk ability to hit ww.

Hulk has hit speedsters on panel and i am backing it up with some logic and scientific/mathmatical extrapolation Batman's hit speedsters too, and just like Hulk- there is no science to explain it.... the sad truth is, neither Hulk nor Batman should be able to, and neither one of them stand much chance against a kryptonian or the amazonian princess without a writer to throw out stats and just make it happen for the better of a story.

On paper, they're just way too much for Hulk.

Originally posted by Juntai
Batman's hit speedsters too, and just like Hulk- there is no science to explain it.... the sad truth is, neither Hulk nor Batman should be able to, and neither one of them stand much chance against a kryptonian or the amazonian princess without a writer to throw out stats and just make it happen for the better of a story.

On paper, they're just way too much for Hulk.

I here what you are saying but I believe on paper hulk can win. Maybe not all the time

all dependant on how pissed off jade jaws is.

Originally posted by Juntai
Batman's hit speedsters too, and just like Hulk- there is no science to explain it.... the sad truth is, neither Hulk nor Batman should be able to, and neither one of them stand much chance against a kryptonian or the amazonian princess without a writer to throw out stats and just make it happen for the better of a story.

On paper, they're just way too much for Hulk.

I think it's been established that the Hulk does in fact have Superhuman speed.

Originally posted by llagrok
I think it's been established that the Hulk does in fact have Superhuman speed.

thumbsup

Yet he's still slower than spiderman who is vastly slower than either women here.

Supergirl can uppercut top tiers into space. How does Hulk resist this?

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Yet he's still slower than spiderman who is vastly slower than either women here.

Supergirl can uppercut top tiers into space. How does Hulk resist this?

He doesn't.

The Hulk still has superhuman speed.

Hulk does not have superhuman reflexes but if he swings a punch your way (assuming its on target) then ww or sg are gonna have a hard time dodging it. I believe huc to be stronger therefore he takes whichever out

Originally posted by spetznaz
The problem you are making is mistaking human movement dynamics with simple linear speed. For instance, believe it or not you jump very fast ....but you cannot run at that speed.

In the same way that some people can throw a 90mph fastball, faster than a typical scooter, but that doesn't mean that they can run at 90 mph.

The dynamic process of the human jumping model and joint speeds can be quite high, but that does not mean that just because your skeletal muscles in the leg can manage to exert themselves greatly over a very brief period of time and propel you quite fast upwards that those same muscles will enable you to outrace a person in a car (or for that matter, on a skateboard).

It is bad science to assume that. It would be like saying that because you can snap your fingers very fast that that is your level of speed.

Moving on to comics .....even if we throw out all science and stick to the world of capes, eyes that shoot fire, and folk with green skin, it is still illogical to even compare the speed of the Hulk to that of any TRUE speedster.

People like Supergirl can move fast enough that they are invisible ....the level of speed mandated by such a feat (whereby a human sized being is moving so fast that they cannot be seen ....not even a blur) is astounding, to say the least.

Anyways, whether you try to apply real world physics, or simply stick to comic book lore, the fact still remains that the Hulk might as well be LITERALLY standing still if any TRUE speedster decides to blitz (per KMC rules). This is not to say that the Hulk is slow ....compared to humans (real or comic book) the Hulk is VERY fast .....you wouldn't be able to outrun him in a Lamborghini Murcielago for instance, or for that matter ANY real world car this side of the Batmobile. Thus the Green Dude is fast.

But he is no speedster, and against real speedsters he might as well be standing still.

This is brilliant. It is clear, uses enough real logic and physics without a bunch of mumbo-jumbo to obfuscate. Best of all, you didn't show a bunch of scans and quote a bunch of dubious comic events to bolster your argument. Too many posters can't see the forest (individual comics and/or storylines) for the trees (the actual core reality of the character in question). It's insane to claim Hulk is even close to WW or SG speed. I still think his team wins, but I love love LOVE your post.

Originally posted by Cap'n Happy
This is brilliant. It is clear, uses enough real logic and physics without a bunch of mumbo-jumbo to obfuscate. Best of all, you didn't show a bunch of scans and quote a bunch of dubious comic events to bolster your argument. Too many posters can't see the forest (individual comics and/or storylines) for the trees (the actual core reality of the character in question). It's insane to claim Hulk is even close to WW or SG speed. I still think his team wins, but I love love LOVE your post.

Who claimed that the Hulk was even remotely comparable to WW or SG in speed?

Originally posted by Cap'n Happy
This is brilliant. It is clear, uses enough real logic and physics without a bunch of mumbo-jumbo to obfuscate. Best of all, you didn't show a bunch of scans and quote a bunch of dubious comic events to bolster your argument. Too many posters can't see the forest (individual comics and/or storylines) for the trees (the actual core reality of the character in question). It's insane to claim Hulk is even close to WW or SG speed. I still think his team wins, but I love love LOVE your post.

who claimed hulk was as fast as ww and sg? i claimed he could move all or parts of his body at hypersonic speeds and therefore should be able to tag sg or wonderwoman part of the time.

of course he could just glow green and take them out without really hitting them as he did against sentry

What is the highest speed wonderwoman has attained

Originally posted by ultimatethor
What is the highest speed wonderwoman has attained I'm not an avid Wonder Woman reader, but I know she's capable of going near lightspeed and possibly beyond.

Originally posted by llagrok
There are a lot of flaws in that post really.

WonderWoman and Supergirl are many times faster than ye olde Quicksilver, and hitting Supergirl with a "barrage" of magical lightning bolts would kill her.


My mistake, supergirl would actually die. But isnt wonderwoman upper speed of sound level? Has she ever gone close to lightspeed? Anyhow if she is not at light speed level then she is not that much faster than Quicksilver and considering that this version of hulk is WWH who is exponentially stronger, faster and more durable than the savage hulk who tagged quicksilver when he still used to move faster than the speed of sound( I dont know his speed level nowadays though) then he would be able to hit wonderwoman

Originally posted by ultimatethor
My mistake, supergirl would actually die. But isnt wonderwoman upper speed of sound level? Has she ever gone close to lightspeed? Anyhow if she is not at light speed level then she is not that much faster than Quicksilver and considering that this version of hulk is WWH who is exponentially stronger, faster and more durable than the savage hulk who tagged quicksilver when he still used to move faster than the speed of sound( I dont know his speed level nowadays though) then he would be able to hit wonderwoman Quicksilver moved over the speed of sound, looking at his respect thread, he was about 4 times the speed of sound, though someone mentions remember him being able to do mach-10 I didn't see a scan surface.

Wonderwoman is capable of lightspeed and possibly beyond.

Supergirl is likewise faster-than-light.

Originally posted by Juntai
Quicksilver moved over the speed of sound, looking at his respect thread, he was about 4 times the speed of sound, though someone mentions remember him being able to do mach-10 I didn't see a scan surface.

Wonderwoman is capable of lightspeed and possibly beyond.

Supergirl is likewise faster-than-light.

ww and sg are as fast or faster than the flash?? eer

No.

Flash is CRAZY fast.

Originally posted by severance
ww and sg are as fast or faster than the flash?? eer Flash is a time-traveler and dimension hopper. His speed isn't always quantifiable.

Doesn't make what I said untrue.

Originally posted by Juntai
Flash is a time-traveler and dimension hopper. His speed isn't always quantifiable.

Doesn't make what I said untrue.

No not doubting ya m8 as you can tell i'm not a huge DC fan but i try to keep up where i can. If, as you say, SG and WW can make light speed and beyond then the Flash character seems to me to be a bit redundant. Just one of the many problems I have with the DC universe

Originally posted by severance
No not doubting ya m8 as you can tell i'm not a huge DC fan but i try to keep up where i can. If, as you say, SG and WW can make light speed and beyond then the Flash character seems to me to be a bit redundant. Just one of the many problems I have with the DC universe

Yea, Flash is still way faster than her though, so it's not really redundant, especially since his only power isn't speed.

A lot of DC characters can go lightspeed and ftl.

Originally posted by Mindset
Yea, Flash is still way faster than her though, so it's not really redundant, especially since his only power isn't speed.

A lot of DC characters can go lightspeed and ftl.

way faster than light speed still pretty pointless if he is earth bound. useful if he could travel thru space. At light speed he can travel round the earth 7 times in a second what difference is multiple times light speed gonna make. Therefore still redundant.

I get the vibraing thru matter is a cool stunt. Is there any reason ww or sg cannot do this

Not really, Superman has done it before but it's presumably hard to do.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Not really, Superman has done it before but it's presumably hard to do.

alright if ww and sg have flash seed and can vibrate thru stuff as well then huc and thor have a problem. Can anyone provide evidence that ww and sg have light speed feats? if so I may have to concede this one surrender(BUT go on hating DC just a little bit).

I believe Huc and thor are stronger tougher and more bad ass than the ladies but if they can move light speed in the earths atmosphere then not sure what Huc nad thor can do without the aid of PIS-

Originally posted by severance
way faster than light speed still pretty pointless if he is earth bound. useful if he could travel thru space. At light speed he can travel round the earth 7 times in a second what difference is multiple times light speed gonna make. Therefore still redundant.

I get the vibraing thru matter is a cool stunt. Is there any reason ww or sg cannot do this Flash is a monster, though his abilities typically revolve around speed, he's not limited to speed by itself. The speedforce affords him a vast amount of powers.
Such as making constructs.
Controlling kinetic energy in other objects and beings, even without touching it.
Time travel and dimension hopping.
Simulated high end durability and superstrength, in the range of the other iconic characters in the JLA.
Limited molecular control of his body and others, and objects.
etc.

Originally posted by Juntai
Flash is a monster, though his abilities typically revolve around speed, he's not limited to speed by itself. The speedforce affords him a vast amount of powers.
Such as making constructs.
Controlling kinetic energy in other objects and beings, even without touching it.
Time travel and dimension hopping.
Simulated high end durability and superstrength, in the range of the other iconic characters in the JLA.
Limited molecular control of his body and others, and objects.
etc.

are these new powers don't remember any of those from my last venture into DC land.

Anyhoo do ww and the super family use speed force to move fast? If not how they move so fast without super heating and causing untold destruction. As one approaches the speed of light ones mass becomes infinite. Sorry for all the questions but I am here to learn as well as debate. book

Originally posted by severance
are these new powers don't remember any of those from my last venture into DC land.

Anyhoo do ww and the super family use speed force to move fast? If not how they move so fast without super heating and causing untold destruction. As one approaches the speed of light ones mass becomes infinite. Sorry for all the questions but I am here to learn as well as debate. book
No, these aren't new powers, they've been around for awhile.

No they don't have the speed force, which is why they limit their speed on Earth.

Although I have never known Diana to be able to go ftl at all.

Originally posted by severance
way faster than light speed still pretty pointless if he is earth bound. useful if he could travel thru space. At light speed he can travel round the earth 7 times in a second what difference is multiple times light speed gonna make. Therefore still redundant.

I get the vibraing thru matter is a cool stunt. Is there any reason ww or sg cannot do this

None of them can go lightspeed or anywhere close on Earth, so it's not pointless or redundant.

Originally posted by Draco69

Here Jesse Quick breaks the dimensional barrier to reach the Speed Force THAN states the Speed Formula that TRIPLES any Speed Forcer's acceleration (Flash stated it to match Zoom).

WW follows Jesse Quick by manually breaking the dimensional barrier and reaching the Speed Force:

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/1624/wwropesjessie19hj.jpg

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6672/wwropesjessie25fd.jpg

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6950/wwropesjessie35ra.jpg

The ONLY way to reach the barrier of the Speed Force is to reach lightspeed and transcend it. Like Jesse Quick and yes, Wonder Woman did above.

WW's speed is going to be a HUGE factor in this battle.

edit

How many times has she come close to lightspeed besides that scan, or what are the circumstances in which that scan takes place?

Kara being Kryptonian warps space when she flies (As per the current explanation for Krytonian flight) which could allow her to travel at faster than light speeds in the same way Star trek space ships do.

Superman has mentioned he can consciously reduce the environmental effects of high speed travel like sonic booms so Kara has the same ability. I imagine heat would come under this too.

Wonder woman is magic don't question it.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Kara being Kryptonian warps space when she flies (As per the current explanation for Krytonian flight) which could allow her to travel at faster than light speeds in the same way Star trek space ships do.

Superman has mentioned he can consciously reduce the environmental effects of high speed travel like sonic booms so Kara has the same ability. I imagine heat would come under this too.

Wonder woman is magic don't question it.

ah so if they warp space its not true velocity cos that would contravene the theory of relativity which states that nothing that has mass can travel as fast as light (let alone ftl). So when you say they are travelling this fast this is appearance only as they are warping space and in effect taking a short cut.

This being the case is this type of "speed" of any relevance to a fight??

You could even argue that Thor can ftl cos he can traverse dimensions also

smoke

Thor can go ftl with mjolnir

Originally posted by Mindset
Thor can go ftl with mjolnir

ok there's two votes!
That plus Thor's other powers really ought to make this a push over for the guys. If huc is at his full potential as is supposed to be the case in these threads then he will heal back faster than either chick can really hurt him meanwhile Thor quickly disposes of the girls with an array of lightning and force blasts from mjlonir. Oh and hulk shatters a continent for good measure!

Originally posted by quanchi112
When was it alluded to that dc operated on higher power scales?

Please show me the scan.

sorry m8 got the book don't own a scanner. But Superman in conversation with aquaman were saying how marvel heros have it tougher cos they don't seem to have the same levels of power (i.e. Marvel comics are grittier and more interesting)

Originally posted by severance
sorry m8 got the book don't own a scanner. But Superman in conversation with aquaman were saying how marvel heros have it tougher cos they don't seem to have the same levels of power (i.e. Marvel comics are grittier and more interesting)

Crossover...

Originally posted by Mindset
Crossover...

The aftermath of JLA vs Avengers is actually still part of canon in the DC universe. The egg that Kronos ended up in technically still exists in the DC universe as the guardians of the universe periodically check it

I read this here http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?currentpage=3&topic_id=48033

don't know how true it is

Marvel never acknowledges it.

Thor and Hulk for the win. Durability and damage potential FTR (For the RAPE)

And stop with all this blitzing fanboy bs. Yes they have moved at light speeds before but it wont save their ass from getting eventually pwned by team 2.

Thor and Hulk 9/10

Females ftw.

Originally posted by Avlon
Females ftw. Sexist pig.

Originally posted by Mindset
Marvel never acknowledges it.

personally i don't mind DC having higher power sets. It is the thing that makes their stories more ridiculous, more inncosistent and less interetsing. Their best DC character by far is Batman and he is just a guy. When they start having Batman routinely beat up meta humans thats when it gets sh!t

If you fought against Quicksilver you'd never lay a hand on him. he's a thousand times faster than you. Yet Hulk/Thor can tag the women when they have a similar speed advantage?



Come now Marvel is king of inconsistency. The hulk can shatter planets but can have a drawn out fight with the thing who is barely class 100. That's a vast difference between them yet they fight.

It'd be like Cyborg having arm wrestling match with Superman and giving him trouble.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
If you fought against Quicksilver you'd never lay a hand on him. he's a thousand times faster than you. Yet Hulk/Thor can tag the women when they have a similar speed advantage?



Come now Marvel is king of inconsistency. The hulk can shatter planets but can have a drawn out fight with the thing who is barely class 100. That's a vast difference between them yet they fight.

It'd be like Cyborg having arm wrestling match with Superman and giving him trouble.

True their is inconsistency but Hulks strength is variable by adrenaline. If Thing is not actually pissing Hulk off then his stength does not increase.

Superman has been shown to survive the moon blowing up and then later gets knocked out cold by petrol (gas) station blowing up. Supermans powers are not variable like the Hulk it all depends on how much he is holding back.

Wonderwoman uses braclets to deflect bullets but can take hits from a class 1million Superman??

Lois lane a pulitzer winning investigative journalist cannot spot that her closest co-worker is also superman.

I'm not saying marvel isn't inconsistent but I think DC has the title

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
If you fought against Quicksilver you'd never lay a hand on him. he's a thousand times faster than you. Yet Hulk/Thor can tag the women when they have a similar speed advantage?



Come now Marvel is king of inconsistency. The hulk can shatter planets but can have a drawn out fight with the thing who is barely class 100. That's a vast difference between them yet they fight.

It'd be like Cyborg having arm wrestling match with Superman and giving him trouble.

Also I am not sure I am huge fan of the whole wwh thing even though hulk is my favourite character I'd prefer he remain beatable and not able to smash planets because imaginig and suspending disbelief becomes very hard.

If this is marvels attempt to start matching DC power levels then it is the poorer for it.

All comic characters have low showings. Superman had been fighting Doomsday for some time when he was hit by the explosion so he was in a weakened strength.



Wonder woman has a weakness to sharp objects.




It's worth pointing out most of Clarks friends have seen him and Superman together at one time or another.

alright superman had been fighting dd for a while but a gas station blowing up and a moon blowing up thats some low showing. that would be like spider man being owned by me!

bullets aren't sharp. you don't have to wear gloves to chamber bullets in a revolver

ok interetsing one on clark. how'd they manage to be seen at same time. Really I've always wanted to know how DC explain this.

The gas station accident happened 15+ years ago, that portrayal of Superman isn't nearly his portrayal as he is now.

Originally posted by Juntai
The gas station accident happened 15+ years ago, that portrayal of Superman isn't nearly his portrayal as he is now.

are you saying superman's powers are more consistent now?

Originally posted by Juntai
The gas station accident happened 15+ years ago, that portrayal of Superman isn't nearly his portrayal as he is now. I'm not saying that wasn't a low showing but time is irrelevant.

I mean if Superman had moved a planet 15+ years ago wouldn't you be using that feat?

By the way Power Lines


And WW and Supergirl should win because Hulk is a non factor because he can not fly.

Although Thor could BFR both of them.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Wonder woman has a weakness to sharp objects.

Sharp Bullets???

If we don't question Diana's weakness to bullets....we won't question Hulk's Gamma fueled abilites then. Which powers all of his abilities (even his speed) to an variable and unknown degree based on his rage levels.

Most Kryptonian speed AND strength feats are based on flight/inertia abilities...not raw power or strength.

Originally posted by Newjak
I'm not saying that wasn't a low showing but time is irrelevant.

And WW and Supergirl should win because Hulk is a non factor because he can not fly.

Although Thor could BFR both of them.

Hulk would only remain in stalemate mode as long as neither Supergirl or Wonderwoman engage him. Once they do they will both inevitably end up barefoot and impregnated with Hulk babies.

Originally posted by Newjak
I'm not saying that wasn't a low showing but time is irrelevant.

I mean if Superman had moved a planet 15+ years ago wouldn't you be using that feat?

By the way Power Lines


And WW and Supergirl should win because Hulk is a non factor because he can not fly.

Although Thor could BFR both of them.

ZOMG flying = instant win! DUR! sdurug

Originally posted by Kutulu
ZOMG flying = instant win! DUR! sdurug

Originally posted by Kutulu
ZOMG flying = instant win! DUR! sdurug

of course even original angel could take out the hulk

Originally posted by severance
of course even original angel could take out the hulk

lmao

Wonder woman can lasso Hulk, and then its two on one against Thor.