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What are some of the worst cases of "comic physics" or logic that we've seen? I'll start by saying many peak human have been written as way above human level--puck, cap america, kingpin, etc. Now I know we have to draw the line somewhere because it is all fiction. Also, with spider man getting the proportionate strength of a spider....it's well known that tiny animals/insects would be much weaker per size if they were bigger (I've studied enough physics to know how this works if anyone cares for me to elaborate).
Go ahead, put on your thinking caps and shoot.

Puck isn't peak human...

Worst logic I've seen is how some people seem to think comics should be strictly regimented rather than stretching or compressing powers to suit the far more important matters of character and story.



And most spiders can lift far more in proportion to their body weight than most humans. The problems with simple enlargement come from the limitations of the skeletal structure. But that's a 1:1 shift in terms of body type...Pete's is obviously a far different scenario. But yeah, if he were literally a spider you'd be onto something.

The speedforce got a little bit ridiculous after a while.

Reed and Bruce's gadgets sometimes make little or no sense but no specific one jump to mind.

Originally posted by K-Dog
Also, with spider man getting the proportionate strength of a spider....it's well known that tiny animals/insects would be much weaker per size if they were bigger (I've studied enough physics to know how this works if anyone cares for me to elaborate).

Peter isn't a giant spider, he simply has the same body weight to strength ratio of a normal one.

This:

http://www.superdickery.com/images/science/luthorstimedevice0sq.jpg

I still haven't tried that...

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
I still haven't tried that...

You should. Plus after your done you can pretend to be a pirate.

After I'm done, I'll travel to the pirate days myself.

One infinity being 'greater' than another. srsly

Magic

I've always wondered how these super strong characters can lift as much as they do, without their bones being crushed under extreme weight.

Originally posted by Galan007
One infinity being 'greater' than another. srsly

I was going to say this too.

Originally posted by Galan007
One infinity being 'greater' than another. srsly

I'd say it's less 'Bad Logic' and more 'boasting beyond capabilities'.

Class 100s not being able to jump out of the orbit and hitting characters without them flying out of orbit. Also what Grunewald did in a Quasar issue... shifty

getting into orbit is a matter of attaining a certain speed, which is primarily linked to a different muscular fiber than strength. runner v. weightlifter. the latter has more muscle, the former is faster. strength does not imply speed, nor the other way around.

Ripping the fabric of time and space with.................................a punch!

Originally posted by Disappear
getting into orbit is a matter of attaining a certain speed, which is primarily linked to a different muscular fiber than strength. runner v. weightlifter. the latter has more muscle, the former is faster. strength does not imply speed, nor the other way around.

*sigh* The Hulk has shown he has the reflexes fast enough to catch a missle, he has vast amounts of strength and weighs compartively little....Hulks going out of orbit.

Hulk is very fast and strong and hes also been able to move his hand at 1/9th the speed of light. Hes going into orbit.

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Ripping the fabric of time and space with.................................a punch!

Isn't that...kinda possible ? Something to do with speed, force and time freezing possibly ?

Most anything in Pre - Crisis DC.

Originally posted by grey fox
Isn't that...kinda possible ? Something to do with speed, force and time freezing possibly ?

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER


Hey I'm not sure, and (at best) it's a shaky theory.

MY favorite comic book logic/physics is that someone can train to become a peak human, and learn amazing H2H skills.


Then they take those H2H skills against someone who can lift aircraft carriers and take bombs point blank range, and use those skills to hit pressure points, and weak spots. Also they can survive a punch from because thye know how to roll with it.

Seriously theose strong guys weak points would still be like hitting a steel bar, and even if the highly trained guys did roll with the punch there would still be so much force left over it would knock a hole straight through them.

Originally posted by Newjak
MY favorite comic book logic/physics is that someone can train to become a peak human, and learn amazing H2H skills.


Then they take those H2H skills against someone who can lift aircraft carriers and take bombs point blank range, and use those skills to hit pressure points, and weak spots. Also they can survive a punch from because thye know how to roll with it.

Seriously theose strong guys weak points would still be like hitting a steel bar, and even if the highly trained guys did roll with the punch there would still be so much force left over it would knock a hole straight through them.

BOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Newjak
and even if the highly trained guys did roll with the punch there would still be so much force left over it would knock a hole straight through them.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Ripping the fabric of time and space with.................................a punch!
Obviously the punches are going faster then light and have enough energy to create a Black hole-like effect!

That frame of Lex Luthor was pretty funny. I am sorry about calling Puck a Peak Human. An old 1982 Marvel Universe I was just reading listed him as that.

Originally posted by Alfheim
*sigh* The Hulk has shown he has the reflexes fast enough to catch a missle, he has vast amounts of strength and weighs compartively little....Hulks going out of orbit.

Hulk is very fast and strong and hes also been able to move his hand at 1/9th the speed of light. Hes going into orbit.

you do realize that THAT is the bad physics, right? escape velocity is, what, mach 32? the speed of light's about 800,000 times the speed of sound, so he moved his hand at nearly mach 90,000? come on, man. the bad physics is that that's actually happened, and the bad logic is saying it's bad physics that it's not happening constantly.

Faster than light ...

Originally posted by King Kandy
Obviously the punches are going faster then light and have enough energy to create a Black hole-like effect!

Hey pal it's not like it's an exact science

I mean according to Einstein nothing can travel faster than light, and the fastest we've ever got a particle to travel through a particle-accelerator is 99.9% speed of light, apparently it would require an infinite energy source to send a particle at FTL speeds, which is something yet to be accomplished.

All im saying is, is it REALLY obvious that their FTL punches rip through reality? Because it's not like we have any idea what would REALLY happen if such a feat was accomplished!

Originally posted by Newjak
MY favorite comic book logic/physics is that someone can train to become a peak human, and learn amazing H2H skills.


Then they take those H2H skills against someone who can lift aircraft carriers and take bombs point blank range, and use those skills to hit pressure points, and weak spots. Also they can survive a punch from because thye know how to roll with it.

Seriously theose strong guys weak points would still be like hitting a steel bar, and even if the highly trained guys did roll with the punch there would still be so much force left over it would knock a hole straight through them.

that is what i was gonna say

Originally posted by Disappear
you do realize that THAT is the bad physics, right? escape velocity is, what, mach 32? the speed of light's about 800,000 times the speed of sound, so he moved his hand at nearly mach 90,000? come on, man. the bad physics is that that's actually happened, and the bad logic is saying it's bad physics that it's not happening constantly.


Right so what you're telling me is that somebody with vast superhuman strength and superhuman reflexes moving his body at superhuman speeds is bad physics?

Hell you implied you needed strength and explosive reflexes to escape orbit now ive given you examples its bad physics.

Superman would probably not be able to absorb enough sunlight onto his body within his lifetime to gain enough energy to pull off all the powerful feats he has done. Now if he were sundipped that gets different, but pre-crisis feats especially would still be B.S.

Any situation where a person transforms and adds significant body mass without an explanation (like Hulk draws on an interdimensional source so at least there is an explanation) is B.S. for ex.--Cap American and the super serum--he would have to eat enough protein for his body to grow like that.

There has been a billion times where street level characters should have been killed but haven't.

Originally posted by K-Dog
for ex.--Cap American and the super serum--he would have to eat enough protein for his body to grow like that.

Thought the serum transformed him over a few days (during which he would be eating heavily).

Something with a million exploding suns...

......and that power unleashed and not so much as leaving a charred tree anywhere to be seen.

Uniforms, gloves, boots hats, ect surviving energy blasts, explosions, heat, cold, and every combat situation usually unscathed.

Also Hair. It should be burned off with a head energy shot.

Hulks pants, nuff said

Originally posted by Da Pittman
Hulks pants, nuff said

Hulk pants have a healing factor

Originally posted by Inhuman
Uniforms, gloves, boots hats, ect surviving energy blasts, explosions, heat, cold, and every combat situation usually unscathed.

Also Hair. It should be burned off with a head energy shot.
That's what I was going to say.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
Hulks pants, nuff said

I think they need a respect thread.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Right so what you're telling me is that somebody with vast superhuman strength and superhuman reflexes moving his body at superhuman speeds is bad physics?

Hell you implied you needed strength and explosive reflexes to escape orbit now ive given you examples its bad physics.



the ability of a muscle to twitch is based on the type of muscular fiber and the efficiency of neuro-electric impulses to the muscle itself. the ability to lift significant weight is determined by the density and strength of the protein chains in the muscle, as well as the number of muscular fibers. these are not related aspects of the muscular system, as a large amount of weight can lifted slowly when the majority/entirety of the muscular fibers are being used. so, to imply that a super-strong character has the efficiency of neuro-electric impulses to move a part or whole of their body at any respectable fraction of the speed of sound/light is a fallacy based in a lack of understanding of the biological system.

to assume that they should be able to, and chock it up to a superhuman physique/inhuman body structure is in stark contrast to PHYSICS and is without any LOGIC.

not to mention the sapping effect a physical atmosphere has on a body in motion. even objects in freefall, with a positive acceleration hit a terminal velocity as the air they're displacing, as well as the drag being caused, stops the object from gaining speed. without a constant accelerant an object's acceleration is negative from the second it moves upward.

physics points so, so far away from jumping/punching someone into orbit being possible it's not even funny. sorry to break it to you.

Originally posted by Disappear
the ability of a muscle to twitch is based on the type of muscular fiber and the efficiency of neuro-electric impulses to the muscle itself. the ability to lift significant weight is determined by the density and strength of the protein chains in the muscle, as well as the number of muscular fibers. these are not related aspects of the muscular system, as a large amount of weight can lifted slowly when the majority/entirety of the muscular fibers are being used. so, to imply that a super-strong character has the efficiency of neuro-electric impulses to move a part or whole of their body at any respectable fraction of the speed of sound/light is a fallacy based in a lack of understanding of the biological system.

to assume that they should be able to, and chock it up to a superhuman physique/inhuman body structure is in stark contrast to PHYSICS and is without any LOGIC.

not to mention the sapping effect a physical atmosphere has on a body in motion. even objects in freefall, with a positive acceleration hit a terminal velocity as the air they're displacing, as well as the drag being caused, stops the object from gaining speed. without a constant accelerant an object's acceleration is negative from the second it moves upward.

physics points so, so far away from jumping/punching someone into orbit being possible it's not even funny. sorry to break it to you.

I agree totally its illogical to think that a superhuman body can reach superhuman speeds. It doesnt make any sense.

please, friend, dumb down the argument to ignore the topic of the thread. take a physics class, calculate the necessary initial velocity for an object of any mass to reach orbit without constant propulsion, then a biology class to determine the necessary muscular function to provide that initial splurge of upward velocity. then come back and tell me i'm wrong to say your assumption is bad physics.

some quick math i threw together. to reach just outside the ozone layer and completely neglecting the immense atmospheric drag, an object fighting gravity alone would need an initial upward velocity of mach 3, assuming the object hits the 50 kilometer mark at its peak a LOW earth orbit is at six times that height, due to the differences in atmospheric friction, and an object will not get into orbit by hitting that height with no speed as it would simply begin falling. a standard LEO can reach up to 2000 kilometers above the earth's surface. to actually attain orbit, it needs to continue moving incredibly quickly and that's at a vector corresponding to the curve of the earth, not straight up. meaning, it'd need to be moving faster to hit orbit as moving at an angle to the earth creates a longer distance needed to reach orbital heights.

there isn't a damn thing in the world that can naturally achieve the proper initial velocity to reach orbit on it's own. atmospheric resistance increases with velocity it's just not possible.

Originally posted by Disappear
the ability of a muscle to twitch is based on the type of muscular fiber and the efficiency of neuro-electric impulses to the muscle itself. the ability to lift significant weight is determined by the density and strength of the protein chains in the muscle, as well as the number of muscular fibers. these are not related aspects of the muscular system, as a large amount of weight can lifted slowly when the majority/entirety of the muscular fibers are being used. so, to imply that a super-strong character has the efficiency of neuro-electric impulses to move a part or whole of their body at any respectable fraction of the speed of sound/light is a fallacy based in a lack of understanding of the biological system.

to assume that they should be able to, and chock it up to a superhuman physique/inhuman body structure is in stark contrast to PHYSICS and is without any LOGIC.

not to mention the sapping effect a physical atmosphere has on a body in motion. even objects in freefall, with a positive acceleration hit a terminal velocity as the air they're displacing, as well as the drag being caused, stops the object from gaining speed. without a constant accelerant an object's acceleration is negative from the second it moves upward.

physics points so, so far away from jumping/punching someone into orbit being possible it's not even funny. sorry to break it to you. Unless of course you know the fast twitch muscles also become upgraded. Which if a person's bones, internal organs, muscles all become upgraded I would also assume that his fast-twitch muscles would also become better. Just an observation.


I would also like to point out a anything can reach escape velocity, and continue along past the atmosphere if given enough force. Even if it isn't under constant acceleration. So terminal velocity once again can be overcome and gone past if given enough force.

Originally posted by Disappear
some quick math i threw together. to reach just outside the ozone layer and completely neglecting the immense atmospheric drag, an object fighting gravity alone would need an initial upward velocity of mach 3, assuming the object hits the 50 kilometer mark at its peak a LOW earth orbit is at six times that height, due to the differences in atmospheric friction, and an object will not get into orbit by hitting that height with no speed as it would simply begin falling. a standard LEO can reach up to 2000 kilometers above the earth's surface. to actually attain orbit, it needs to continue moving incredibly quickly and that's at a vector corresponding to the curve of the earth, not straight up. meaning, it'd need to be moving faster to hit orbit as moving at an angle to the earth creates a longer distance needed to reach orbital heights.

there isn't a damn thing in the world that can naturally achieve the proper initial velocity to reach orbit on it's own. atmospheric resistance increases with velocity it's just not possible. It's a good thing these things happen in a comic world where people are strong enough to lift mountains, and islands you know.

You see I don't think this is a thread to say what is impossible in our world, but what is impossible in their world even given their abilities.

Like lifting a building without in crumbling because of no support, kind of thing. Because with the strength levels I would be willing to bet a number of people could reach those numbers.

Originally posted by Newjak
Unless of course you know the fast twitch muscles also become upgraded. Which if a person's bones, internal organs, muscles all become upgraded I would also assume that his fast-twitch muscles would also become better. Just an observation.


I would also like to point out a anything can reach escape velocity, and continue along past the atmosphere if given enough force. Even if it isn't under constant acceleration. So terminal velocity once again can be overcome and gone past if given enough force.

Simple really but I dunno people just wanna argue. *shrug*

Originally posted by Newjak


You see I don't think this is a thread to say what is impossible in our world, but what is impossible in their world even given their abilities.


This is what I suspected hence your complaint about street levelers KOing class 100s but then again it could still be argued that in their world it could be possible.

At any rate even in real world phyics a superhuman body could jump out of orbit it just needs to be superhuman enough.

Originally posted by K-Dog
Superman would probably not be able to absorb enough sunlight onto his body within his lifetime to gain enough energy to pull off all the powerful feats he has done.
A long time ago, in a thread far, far away, I worked out the math to this. IIRC, it would take Superman 500 years to absorb enough energy to withstand a single megaton bomb.

Also there should be a limit to supes sun absorption. Its not like he has infinite mass. batteries do have their charge limit. Once he reaches his charge limit it shouldnt matter if he is there 1 year or 1 million years, he would have the same charge.

This thread is similar to this one in a way

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=421177

If Supes did reach a theoretical 'charge limit' would he explode ? Or would the effects be Identical to All-Star Supermans (EG : Rapid Cell death, regeneration and thus shortening of life span)

fast-twitch muscles capable of immediately creating force significant enough to create an upward velocity far greater than mach 27. within an atmosphere. while standing on top of a structure capable of withstanding the force itself, thus repelling the object upward. sounds likely.

if you're going to engage in a thread regarding good or bad physics/biology/chemistry/science-of-any-kind, then dismiss rational arguments with the fantasy of "superhuman" this and that, why bother in the first place?

also, even in comic universes, constants such as gravity, atmosphere, wind resistance, normal force, and the various basic biological functions of the human or superhuman body still apply. a building not crumbling under its own weight isn't disproof of the fundamental characteristics of a physical universe; it's bad science. that's what the thread's about.

also, juntai, you're hilarious.

There was a young lady named bright, who travelled far faster than light.
She went out one day in a relative way, and came back on the previous night.