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Wow, um, okay.

>>>Will anyone watching Ep II really be surprised when Dooku is revealed as a Sith, or care?

I think GL thought it would be a bigger deal than it was, and the "mystery" of the assassination effort. He doesn't explain Dooku much at all so why are we concerned with him until he first appears with the Separatists?

Also, there are some external factors that make movie surprises (in blockbusters at least) difficult these days, including pictures of Chris Lee around the release, and he wasn't a good guy so he's probably a bad guy.

Furthermore will future audiences be surprised that Palps is the Phantom Menace?
I know WE all know who he is but for future audiences its a damp squib even if they watch the movies prequels first followed by the OT.



I dont recall any scene or line of dialogue where it is cleared up for the casual viewer that Dooku knows Palpatine is Sideous either in bothAOTC or ROTS.
We get the look of surprise on Dookus face when Palps tells Anakin "kill him" but thats not much to go on for the non SW fans in the audience
i think Lucas slipped up there


Liking the new forum image
the ROTS was getting a little stale.

This is actually why I wonder how Dooku can be some people's main reason for watching Ep 2 or 3 (however brief) he just didn't offer too much and wasn't explained too well...

I think Palpy as the Phantom Menace would surprise future audiences more.

THere was no surprise, because we didn't know who he was. So he is sort of a deus ex machina. And generally one doesn't care for that.

All we know is that he was Dracula and Saruman.

Originally posted by General G
This is actually why I wonder how Dooku can be some people's main reason for watching Ep 2 or 3 (however brief) he just didn't offer too much and wasn't explained too well...

Because he is played by Christopher Lee. So as usual, despite his minimal screen time and storyline, he upstages the rest of the movie(s).

Only one, possibly two, other actors in the PT can compare to Mr Lee's performance and acting prowess.

hehe, I thought you would say something like that.

But his character is lacking, I am taking nothing from his acting abilities, but the character he played could have more depth.

His character is lacking yes, but the performer makes up for a lot.

I thought AOTC only got interesting the moment Dooku appears.

Which was...a fair amount into it...

Indeed.

Well, then the appearance of the Count at the finale gives us something to look forward to - especially during some of the more tedious parts of the movie.

Not if you are starting from Ep 1 and you don't know he will be there...

Hehehe exactly.

Plus he gets killed at the beginning of ROTS... it didn't last long.

Yeah, no kidding, a bigger part wouldn't have been too much to ask from Lee would it?

Christopher Lee had more of a cameo role than anything. Hell, Lucas needed somebody in there who knew how to act and deliver an engaging performance.

Problem is, Christopher Lee is old school Hollywood royalty, so Lucas was to much of a cheapskate to hire him for any great length of film. Bastard.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Christopher Lee had more of a cameo role than anything. Hell, Lucas needed somebody in there who knew how to act and deliver an engaging performance.



That aspect worked though.

But in all fairness, it was a good choice. A reference to Peter Cushing in ANH. But somehow Tarkin felt more alive and a more in-depth character. I doubt he had more screentime than Lee though.

Tarkin was a great character. Definitely my second favourite character in the saga. Although, in fairness, his character didn't need much screen time to be developed effectively. He was 'motherf*ckin boss'. End of story. As soon as he talked down to Vader the audience knew he was a guy not to be messed with.

Dooku, on the other hand had such an important role regarding the storyline itself. He was the traitorous Jedi who has aligned himself with the Sith, is plotting an intergalactic war, is trying to assassinate Padme (a major plot point) but at the same time doesn't want to share power with Sidious and wants the Republic for himself. Thats a Hell of a lot to cram into a character who only has about 10 minutes of screen time. Especially when he is only mentioned (briefly) once before his appearance right at the end.

Frankly, Christopher Lee did a fantastic job pulling off such a complex character with such minimal dialogue and screen time.

And yes, I am blatantly biased. :P

Tarkin was great, really badass, it also helped because everybody seemed to know him, Leia in ANH "I thought I smelt you" or something along those lines.

Yes, they should have showed more of Dooku's side to the story, would have made for a more interesting AOTC anyways...

Really? I couldn't see the bias

They should have clipped Dooku's story considering his screen time.

Ever since AOTC I fantasized about a different opening. Scratch the nonsensical assasination attempt on Padme. I'd have loved to see the movie open on Geonosis: Dooku arrives to inspect the grand new army of battle droids and super battle droids. All the great clans have gathered to prepare a fatal war to deestroy the republic. THen we find out that Dooku is the new Sith apprentice of Sidious and a formidable ex-Jedi.

At least that way we could have had the Jocasta Nu scene in the library about the Lost Twelve.

Anyway, that is something I would have liked and would have fitted much better with the OT style of the films. Those always start with the baddies and their intentions, so we know what's at stake for the heroes. They will loom over everything they do. In AOTC we just wonder what the heck they're on about.

I assume you are referring to the Lost Twenty? But the war hadn't even started yet if they did that, the Lost Twenty were throughout the Clone Wars...not before...

But that would have been a much nicer intro to AOTC...and would have made more sense...instead of having the CW begin at the end...

I think you are wrong about the Lost Twelve. Dooku was one of them. THe Jocasta Nu convo is in the novel, it was even shot. And that convo in the library where OB1 is looking for Kamino preceded the Clone Wars by any chronology.

The Lost Twelve were just 12 Jadi that separated from the Jedi Order.

Yes...those were also the Lost Twenty...or perhaps it turned into the Lost Twenty by the end.

Who cares about the twenty... it's about Dooku.

*sigh* Dooku was one of the twenty.

He was one of the TWelve.

Yes, so?

That's all that counts... for the Count.

But it would be the exact same thing for the twenty...he was a part of the twenty...so?

Are the Twenty canon?

I believe so.

Really?

Yes.

Where?

"Only twenty Jedi have ever left the Order."
"The Lost Twenty. And Count Dooku was the most recent and the most painful. No one likes to talk about it. His leaving was a great loss to the Order." ATOC novel

Oh Twnety... Okay I stand corrected. I was mistaken, bad memory. Lost Twelve don't exist. My bad.

Anyway, that was Dooku's backstory and had nothing to do with the Clone Wars. They were lost alreeady before the war.

So....I was right...and you were wrong...don't mind me basking in my glory

Bask away. I stand corrected.

Originally posted by General G
I assume you are referring to the Lost Twenty? But the war hadn't even started yet if they did that, the Lost Twenty were throughout the Clone Wars...not before...


But you were not entuirely correct. The Twenty were already lost before the Clone Wars. How is it then that Jocasta Nu talks about them before the war starts?

Well...in you being seemingly right all the time (now in question)...it was taken for granted that your Lost 12 were also canon...so I was coming up with an explanation for the Lost 20...seeing as they were in the ROTS novel.

So I fooled you.... AGAIN!

Originally posted by General G
Well...in you being seemingly right all the time (now in question)...it was taken for granted that your Lost 12 were also canon...so I was coming up with an explanation for the Lost 20...seeing as they were in the ROTS novel.

Correction AOTC novel

Originally posted by queeq
So I fooled you.... AGAIN!
You fool me too little to get excited over that. And it wasn't fooling if you thought you were right too.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Correction AOTC novel

Not mentioned in ROTS?

Don't think so. It wasn't relevant then, was it? They had other things on their mind.

It's all in the Jocasta Nu conversation and I do hope we ever get to see taht deleted scene.

Is there any movie where Christopher Lee doesn't play a bad guy?

Dunno...

Originally posted by C Teng
Is there any movie where Christopher Lee doesn't play a bad guy?

Would being Willy Wonka's dad in Charlie and the chocolate factory count as a bad guy?

Yes.

He always plays such roles. I think his rol in Dracula: father and son would make him a good guy, a good vampire caring for his son.

Vampires can't be good though...

Originally posted by C Teng
Is there any movie where Christopher Lee doesn't play a bad guy?

Mr Lee has indeed played numerous protagonist roles. Though these movies are generally much less known, and of a lower calibre, than the films in which he appears today. Not to say the films are necessarily bad, but they certainly aren't in the same league as epics such as 'Lord of the Rings' and 'Star Wars'.

Examples include: Horror Express (1973), Jinnah (1998), The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes (1970) and Police Academy 7 (1994) to name a few.

Though in fairness, it is a very small number in comparison to the 260+ films he has starred in. I guess IMDB sums it up with the comment:

Although he has been in well over 200 films, he has very rarely played a hero, having been a villain in perhaps about 85% of his films (even his bit parts lean towards the unsympathetic).

But lets face it, Mr Lee is the undisputed King of Bad Guys. Every time steps into the shoes of a baddy he wows the audience and keeps them utterly entranced, while contiuously delivering an oustanding performance. Christopher Lee rocks!

Originally posted by General G
Vampires can't be good though...

You never saw Dracula: Father and Son, I suppose.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Mr Lee has indeed played numerous protagonist roles. Though these movies are generally much less known, and of a lower calibre, than the films in which he appears today. Not to say the films are necessarily bad, but they certainly aren't in the same league as epics such as 'Lord of the Rings' and 'Star Wars'.

Examples include: Horror Express (1973), Jinnah (1998), The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes (1970) and Police Academy 7 (1994) to name a few.

Though in fairness, it is a very small number in comparison to the 260+ films he has starred in. I guess IMDB sums it up with the comment:

Although he has been in well over 200 films, he has very rarely played a hero, having been a villain in perhaps about 85% of his films (even his bit parts lean towards the unsympathetic).

But lets face it, Mr Lee is the undisputed King of Bad Guys. Every time steps into the shoes of a baddy he wows the audience and keeps them utterly entranced, while contiuously delivering an oustanding performance. Christopher Lee rocks! Police Academy 7 crylaugh

I didn't know there were people who actually saw that

If Dooku had at least been present in TPM...it would have been more interesting.

Also, Sifo-Dyas...WORST IDEA EVER.

Indeed.

Sifo-Dyas was kinda useless...Dooku would be nice in TPM, even a small part.

And a bit more in AOTC as well.

Yes, instead of waiting for much of the movie...then figure him out.

Originally posted by queeq
You never saw Dracula: Father and Son, I suppose.

And no, I did not see that.

It's a French film, but quite funny.

Is there subtitles? And they have amusing accents.

I dunno actually, it's been a while since I saw it last. In fact, I think I saw it twice in a German redub... bloody Germans.

Wow, queeq, I've gotta say: you really went on a thread-closing rampage, didn't you?

That was quite a number of weeks ago. I only close one thread in the last month or so and that was a spamming thread.

Originally posted by queeq
I dunno actually, it's been a while since I saw it last. In fact, I think I saw it twice in a German redub... bloody Germans.

Germans=Bada$$.

Originally posted by queeq
That was quite a number of weeks ago. I only close one thread in the last month or so and that was a spamming thread.

Ummm...A spamming thread that you told me to make!

No, not yours. That was a little misunderstnding I apologised for.

Ah, and I accepted it, which one then, that was the only one I remembered you deleting?

Closing.. not deleting.

Dunno anymore... It was someone spamming.

Thats what I meant, closing. Must have missed it.

Dracula.

Teeth

Fangs

Blood.

Shut the F up and get back on topic.

Queeq! You close good threads but leave shit like this open? Come on.

Awww... Now you broke the flow of the conversation.

Originally posted by Alliance
Shut the F up and get back on topic.

Queeq! You close good threads but leave shit like this open? Come on.

I leave it open to annoy you.

Seriously though, its not even like you're not moderating, you're contributing to the off-topic ness and then you close a thread randomly.

So?

I usually wait a page... page and a half and see if it comes on topic again.... THEN I close it. Which is about that time with this thread.

Originally posted by General G
Blood.

back on topic

guts...

How are intestines on topic?

Originally posted by Alliance

Also, Sifo-Dyas...WORST IDEA EVER.

Seriously. Do we even know who that is? I mean, is there a reason we should care that I'm not aware of?

lmao yea wtf is up with that. sifo dyas gets mentioned in sw2 and hes teh worst idea ever?

tpm is the worst idea ever...

A random floating droid making weird hovering noises that watches what's supposed to be the most epic duel of the saga is the worst idea ever.

I've always said, Dooku should have been in Phantom Menace. at least a little. Show him in a scene where Qui-Gon visits him on Coruscant to discuss their situation. I got more but I can't post it all now.

Originally posted by Tangible God
A random floating droid making weird hovering noises that watches what's supposed to be the most epic duel of the saga is the worst idea ever.
wait, did this happen?

guts are on topic. and if they arent... prove it... i dare ya.

I'll just shoot ya.

ow. I hope you miss.

I won't.

ill just stop it with my vader glove (just got done reading 3 pages of debates over weather or not vaders glove stopped han's blaster bolts or the force did in teh eu...)

Sounds like a canon debate.

its a debate that really really sucks because they are just speculating on it. well its over now but...

Who won? The glove or the Force?

nobody. they decided there wasnt enough evidence to convict the deflections either way. so we...

That sucks. I'd say fight to the death, last man standing is right.

yea.

*bell rings*

I thought in the comics vader used the force to deflect blasters? I was a kid when they came out (comics) but I seem to remember something about that????

I don't think that issue was ever resolved.

doesnt really matter.

sure it does...thats why message boards like this exist...lol

Just fer selling, ya mean.

of course tell JP wuz up!...she might not remember me but tell her anyways!

What IS up then? You're back?

yeah that will work... I just remember some stuff she was goin thru while I had same kinda issues at time...(Family members..)...felt for her...anyways tell her drink up thats whats up!...lol

Your buying again, I suppose?

only if on credit...payday not till friday...lol...broke these days I work for gas money alone it seems like these days...suppose if quit working at a bar and got a better paying job maybe Id be better off..lol...(no offense there Queeq Im sure your pay rate is fair at the milk bar...lol)

I don't get paid... I get all the profits.

guess thats why your so successful huh....how many drinks does it take to get to the combination of queeqs safe? (remember the old commercial with the owl ...."how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop"...lol) 1 2 3 ..could it be that easy..he does own a bar?

What safe?

the one thats behind the picture of the naked slave girl beside the register.....

Oh, I just keep the address book of the dancing girls in there.