Kain vs Team Supreme

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Tenfrente
All powers Kain, but without his soul suck ability and with 1 ressurection, vs all powers Dante with unlimited Devil Trigger, all powers Ryubusa, Raziel (without soul suck), all powers Jedah (without soul suck) and Pyron, all powers Sephiroth and all powers Kratos.

Please do not misconstrue this as spite, I have not played through the LOK series fully, and I want to see how powerful he is.

Becci
This is a spite. Not because of Kratos alone, but because of your ridiculous restriction of Kain. No draining of soul and one single resurrection. He is fighting a being that has the size of the sun. Without resurrection or draining of soul, Kain gets SMASHED. Most likely not instantly, but this fight will overcome Kain relativly quickly.

Burning thought
theory allowed or disallowed?

Kain is useless without soul suck against the likes of pyron unless this is theory

Becci
I think 'All powers Kain' was indicated the most powerful version of Kain in the actual game, what has been seen yes

Burning thought
well all powers could include the theory because its very highly possible kain has the powers of the concepts

but all his powers without soul suck is useless imo...unless.....hmm infact this could go in kains favour

Kain can win this actually, kain does not "suck" souls, the reaver does....his Spirit wrack are still viable because thats not a suck, it simply replaces their soul with kains so he is controlling them wink

Becci
Then all he needs is to somehow HIT Pyron and this is all set.

Burning thought
well ime not sure about hit, its not a projectile spell that would be spirit death, but with the spirt wrack from what i remember from the game, Kains sort of glows and then the targets soul is punted out with kain replacing it and Kain holds it, this happens pretty much instantly but its a duration, kain would have about a minute i tihnk it was to control the body he chooses while his, is in his shield, ime thinking Soul possess Dimetri who can absorb pyron and those together are likely to be able to destroy everyone apart from Jedah, then its no soul sucking Jedah (his real main feature) VS Kain with all powers, ofc Jedahs got no chance rly imo..i mean without his main soul sucking powers i dont see him doing much

Tenfrente
There is no Dimetri.

Burning thought
hmm i wonder if full powered Pyron could take on a non soul sucking Jedah then or vice versa, sorry i used that argument in an old pyron, jedah and demetri VS kain thread ages ago

Tenfrente
You have to remember about Raziel as well.

Becci
Pyron is the big factor here, even though Raziel is a talented kid.

Burning thought
Raziel is not really a danger to kain imo, i think you should give Raziels reaver soul suck but in the end i think Kain would win, you see by default i think all characters are bloodlusted for battle, Raziel can just barely defeat a half serious kain who doesnt even want to fight Raziel, Kain going all out would crush Raziel, especially if he uses Time bolts and has his shield

i like how you boldened big smile indeed the big factor

Becci
stick out tongue

Tenfrente
And Kratos? Tbh I think all powers Dante, Ryu, Kratos and Raz would stomp Pyron. Kratos is huge in his God form, and Dante and Ryu are used to fighting stupidly big enemies (albeit not sun sized).

Burning thought
oh i dont know, Raz could absorb pyrons soul but ime not sure if Dante could use his time slowing powers, but pyron is like the size of the sun, hes bigger than big..he would swat them all in an instant if he went all out imo unless Dante could somehow slow time for the whole team against pyron, maybe you should make the thread and maybe ....with a little help... will debate in pyrons favour stick out tongue

Becci
Originally posted by Tenfrente
And Kratos? Tbh I think all powers Dante, Ryu, Kratos and Raz would stomp Pyron. Kratos is huge in his God form, and Dante and Ryu are used to fighting stupidly big enemies (albeit not sun sized).

no expression

laughing out loud


Pyron will LITTERALY stomp the PLANET that they reside on. Kratos is not THAT big. Seriously, I have debated against his size in another thread. He is not even the size of a minor mountain. He is just about the size of the average mythology giants.

His full size is in my opinion, from what is seen in the Statue of Rhodos video- tripple the size of a large building at top (Could lower myself to double)

Tenfrente
That is not the issue here anyway, I was merely stating that the combined power of the other chars is a force to be reckoned with.

Becci
Not much for Pyron. He would still stomp those guys, litteraly.

Tenfrente
Good thing they're on his side then, eh?

Becci
Not if Kain controls him.

Burning thought
also dont forget inspire hate again, the long range on only works on a single target, the one that works against all enemies in an area have to be within about 10-20 metres of kain, but the singe target one he could inspire hate into any of his foes, but i think it would be best to possess pyron and kill the rest with it

Tenfrente
In that case, the rules are changed so supreme can't soul suck unless it's someone on their team. Jedah could take Pyron out anyway.

Becci
Why do people keep making these stupid Kain threads? no expression If there is something bugging me, it is when people do illogical limitations stick out tongue

Burning thought
"shrug" i agree, i dont think kain should be put in a thread, have powers stripped from him and then made to fight, then its not really kain

this isnt the worst thread of them however, furions one are more strange because he takes nearly all kains powers from him

Becci
If the limits was somehow in relevance to the fight I could understand limits, but saying simply "Does not have soul suck" makes my stomach bubble out of confusion.

Why not? So that he can be beat? Just weird. If placing a character in a fight, they should place the actual character in the fight and not some weakened 'copy'.

Although I know I am not one to say, as I have limited characters before (New Becci now, though) If you want to limit him, at least make it logical.

Burning thought
either way kain has "most" of his powers and a comination of time bolts on the lesser entities (Raziel, Ryu, Kratos, dante) woud rule them out, Dante could possibly survive and escape a time bolt but eventually the other 3 i dont think they could keep it up except possibly Ryu, but Kain sitll has his dimension reavers so he could use that to dimension tele blitz those 4, i doubt they could survive a hit each, possibly more consdiering if kain does it before they get far from eachother the dimension reality would mirror the same damage onto the others, so they would be hit 4 times each, Kain could use Possession, perhaps mind powers and inspire hate spell to get pyron and Jedah to destroy eachother, without soul sucking he cant take them out by himself especillay pyron due to his size although a time bolt may mess him up and his size will make it difficult for him to escape several small bolts even if he is fast, if he shrinks which i think he can, then he wont be too large for kain to use his other powers on, either way, possession and inspire hate will mess the whole group up a bit much

Jedah reforms his body and uses his own blood, but what if kain starts draining this blood? Jedah would be messed up and Kain would be gainging Jedahs powers since Kain gains powers from those he drains of blood, he would become the new Jedah almost anyway and would take out Pyron since i think jedah can take on Pyron, maybe not sun sized but ime not sure

Tenfrente
Maybe because some of Kain's powers are just stupid? In reality, it is imposible to beat no-lim Kain, so he has to be toned down. Fine, you want fully powered Kain? No limitation Kain vs everyone ever created by anyone ever. Who wins?

Burning thought
kain would be wrecked to hell because every creation would include Gods and everything, but thats not the point, also i think he could be beaten by a few groups, i mean Dante is another guy with nifty powers, mix him with some others, Ryu, Kratos, create a small army of Game characters without super hitters like jedah and Pyron who would mess up their own team too much if they were inspired with hate

although no limit kain would be the theory version i would imagine, who would be pretty stupidly powerful, but cutting out the theory would mean kain has a good fight again an army of characters on Dante level

Becci
Originally posted by Burning thought
either way kain has "most" of his powers and a comination of time bolts on the lesser entities (Raziel, Ryu, Kratos, dante) woud rule them out, Dante could possibly survive and escape a time bolt but eventually the other 3 i dont think they could keep it up except possibly Ryu, but Kain sitll has his dimension reavers so he could use that to dimension tele blitz those 4, i doubt they could survive a hit each, possibly more consdiering if kain does it before they get far from eachother the dimension reality would mirror the same damage onto the others, so they would be hit 4 times each, Kain could use Possession, perhaps mind powers and inspire hate spell to get pyron and Jedah to destroy eachother, without soul sucking he cant take them out by himself especillay pyron due to his size although a time bolt may mess him up and his size will make it difficult for him to escape several small bolts even if he is fast, if he shrinks which i think he can, then he wont be too large for kain to use his other powers on, either way, possession and inspire hate will mess the whole group up a bit much

Jedah reforms his body and uses his own blood, but what if kain starts draining this blood? Jedah would be messed up and Kain would be gainging Jedahs powers since Kain gains powers from those he drains of blood, he would become the new Jedah almost anyway and would take out Pyron since i think jedah can take on Pyron, maybe not sun sized but ime not sure

Seriously, Pyron removes ANY hope for this to be fair. He can basically speedblitz the PLANET.

Burning thought
he is a little bit of a nasty, if possessed will kill his team i would say, jedah is not the one to beat Pyron imo, not without soul powers and if he beats pyron then Kain wins anyway

hmmmm

need a more unique selection of non overpowered entities against kain, like Pyron is too big for his own team anyway, are there smaller ubers

Becci
Important question:

Would Pyron even CARE for his team? He would smash the entire planet and have it done with. Allied or not.

Tenfrente
Smaller ubers? What about all-powers Jedah with the Infinty Gauntlet with Belial Aensland implemented into it?

Becci
A human sized Pantheon big grin

(Would destroy Jedah's fully powered ass. They would revive him and take turns)

Tenfrente
Originally posted by Becci
A human sized Pantheon big grin

(Would destroy Jedah's fully powered ass. They would revive him and take turns) What? I'm talking about Jedah wieldin the gauntlet containing Belial against Kain. Did you mean Kain, not Jedah?

Becci
I am just blabbering randomly. Ignore me while I imagine epic battles.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Tenfrente
Smaller ubers? What about all-powers Jedah with the Infinty Gauntlet with Belial Aensland implemented into it?


well first ime not sure it matters, anyone with the infnity gauntlet would defeat kain...thats a uber item, ime sure most things in Marvel would destroy kain but this is not comic book VS

Belial Aensland is a fool, he destroyed part of his body and ended up loosing tonnes of his power in the process in an angered rage

i think more Kain level challenges would be large groups of characters on the level of Ryu and Dante against kain

Estacado
Kain turns into ****ing mist ftw!!!!

Burning thought
lawls, someone got bored

Estacado
So Kain can easily take an army of Dante level chars though he never fought anyone as powerful as him........mmm


Oh wait he fought a giant squid who needs pawns to get the job done cause by himself he couldn't even kill the vampire race.........

Burning thought
its funny you claim to of played LOK games yet i remember long ago you proved you know nothing of it and it seems just then you know nothing of it..typical

that Giant squid would tool the entire DMCverse simply because none of them coud even see or hit it, Elder uses pawns because he needs the nourishment those pawns give him from taking the souls, also it would be pretty difficult for something of his size to defeat vampires especially the elite ones and if he went all out hed end up destorying his food source

also what do you mean "he couldnt even", you think Dante would defeat the vampire race? lmao.......Dante would be tooled against a couple of kains sons, Malchiah and Dumah would likely do it

also nobody as powerful as Dante, who the fvuck? Dante is powerful? pff the guys nothing really, infact hes one of the lowest threats in this entire gauntlet

Estacado
You fail again.
Dumah beating Dante?
The guy got pwned by 3 spear......haermm
Destroying his own food source what are you talking about? There would still be rebirth.........
Dante beat the ruler of Underworld Elder God hasn't shown anything impressive......besides geting pwned by a vampire weapon.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Estacado
You fail again.
Dumah beating Dante?
The guy got pwned by 3 spear......haermm
Destroying his own food source what are you talking about? There would still be rebirth.........
Dante beat the ruler of Underworld Elder God hasn't shown anything impressive......besides geting pwned by a vampire weapon.

you can say what you like if it makes you feel better lol roll eyes (sarcastic)

pwned by 3 spears? the guy had 3 spears left in him, nothing states he was pwned, nothing states that was the only weapons used, thats the only weapons seen, and the only thing that did anything to him is the spear in his heart, also its likely they used Moebius' staff like they did to all high powered vampires of that era

Elder God is basically the size of the world, the destruction caused of trying to attack the vampires full on would shake the place up terribly and cause untold damage

Mundus has shown something impressive then has he? when exactley, all i remember is him getting pwned by a weapon far inferior to the reaver, your comparing any of dantes weapons to the reaver? lmao, and rofl at the thought of Mundus>Elder God

Mundus has shown less than EG, his ridiculous and pathetic and your throwing around the ruler of the underworld BS, as if that means anything, what do you think Elder God is? hes the ruler of the underworld too, lol sillies sillies, no one is above EG in LOK at least not in the underworld, ofc kain is above most in LOK but thats besides the point, Kain would tool mundus and Dante at the same time immediatley after defeating the rest of this lineup, he may bring Mundus into just to have some play time

Estacado
Dumah still got fried pretty easily nothing that Ifrit or agni and rudra can't replicate.
Still his fight with Kain didn't do any damage to Nosgoth itself.
Kain would tool both?haermm
Along with GOW and DMC universe as we all know.....shocklaugh

Terryc250
Wow spite thread? Just about every single one of these characters can take Kain alone

and wtf is "theory kain"

Rewmac
It's Burning thought's version of Kain. That version can take out the whole freaking gaming universe...Everbody. It's true though that Dante's transformation (from DMC2, Sparda form) would one shot but nevermind.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Estacado
Dumah still got fried pretty easily nothing that Ifrit or agni and rudra can't replicate.
Still his fight with Kain didn't do any damage to Nosgoth itself.
Kain would tool both?haermm
Along with GOW and DMC universe as we all know.....shocklaugh

typical typical Estacardo, a combination of smilies and BS

he got burnt up, Agni and Rudra? lawls, can you show me their heatr output, that puts it anywhere near a furnice that can turn Dumah to dust please? Agni and Rudra are pathetic and i said two of kains sons without Dante going Sparda form or Time would prob beat Dante handily
He only used a small part of his body thats why, and he lost, i said if he went all out and used his entire mass

yes Kain would tool them both....

Kain tool DMC and GOW universes? maybe not, EG would, they can neither see or touch him and hes larger than anything in those unvierses, he would crush and energy stomp them

Originally posted by Terryc250
Wow spite thread? Just about every single one of these characters can take Kain alone

and wtf is "theory kain"

lol and a typical Terry thread "i kno nothing on LOK yet ime hatzor so Kain lose"

Theory kain is what Kain technically is after Defiance but i dont think this is theory kain, this is normal kain

Originally posted by Rewmac
It's Burning thought's version of Kain. That version can take out the whole freaking gaming universe...Everbody. It's true though that Dante's transformation (from DMC2, Sparda form) would one shot but nevermind.

wtf, what do you know and who the hell are you? lol, and no its not actually, i dont have a version of kain myself.....and wtf? you Dante fanboy or just a BS talker like Estacado who cant debate or perhaps a classic Terry type who doesnt know anything about LOK but hates on it? hmmmm

Estacado
So anyone who says Kain loses is a hater or a fanboy you fail as always.......thumb down

Burning thought
Originally posted by Estacado
So anyone who says Kain loses is a hater or a fanboy I fail as always because i cannot debate to save my life.......thumb down


second part i agree with, but no, if someone says Kain loses your correct, their hater, if they say kain loses because then they are not, then they may have an argument, but as it goes, nobody in the last pages has any argument...ofc you probably dont realise since your skills are lacking, unless a few smilies is your debate ofc......then my opinion of your debating are proven fact..

but yes you fail as always

Estacado
There is nothing to debate about here this is basically spite only you could think he has a chance here........and everyone knows you are the number 1 Kain wanker....thumb down

Burning thought
Originally posted by Estacado
There is nothing to debate about here this is basically me not having any debating skills and so i have to say this........and everyone (i hope, and ofc i mean a couple who are my m8s like Remac and other haters) knows you are the number 1 Kain wanker....thumb down although ive got nothing to say in this thread.....lawlz..but anyway down with kain!! zomg he iz weakz and Dante solo this!

pathetic to the max you are Estacado, to the max, now go and troll the General discussions group like a good troll and say random comments to them, Games VS is for debates which ofc, you cant do

Estacado
Originally posted by Burning thought
kain turns into mist after that he uses inspire hate on them
thumb up

Burning thought
why do you laugh at turning into mist, you cant punch mist, dantes sword is unlikely to hit mist...simple..but he wont use mist, he does not need it

inspire hate he can use, why not? whta possible reason do you have? ofc, you dont have any reason at all apart from kain hate, Dante would be fighting against pyron...who ofc would kill Dante and most of his team under inspire hate in zero time

but kain does not need either of these as useful as the inspire hate is, he just needs spirit wrack, take control of any of these, take your pick, lets have pyron, whats the team going to do? Jedah is the only one who may stand a chance then against Pyron, ill seriously rofl on my carpet if you think precious Dantekins can stop Pyron

Estacado
So Kain who can't even mindcontrol the sarafan takes over Pyron......haermm

Burning thought
huh? woah woah woah little man, whos using mind control?
okie brillaint, your failing is showing up, at the same time as you saying i fail, which is making you look more stupid than you probably imagine while your mucking about with smilies and saying ime foolish

Estacado
Oh sorry then inspire hate which has about 10 meter radius is going to make Pyron to go on rampage who is in orbit....

Burning thought
woah woah woah, inspire hate is one spell, okie lets debate that one spell, its got range of unkown radious, hell it seems as far as kain sees, its on screen in BO1, 20/30 metres is the reaver version that would make anyone wihin those 30 metres inspired in hate

but what you fail to realise is that the inspire hate spell activating is not the debate, because it obviously will considering Pyrons size, he would never be too difficult to cast a spell on

but ime talking about Spirit wrack, its not mind control, its not even a spell of inspire hate type, its complete possession, and Pyron, jedah take your pick, can tool the resto f their team

Rewmac
Originally posted by Burning thought
huh? woah woah woah little man, whos using mind control?
okie brillaint, your failing is showing up, at the same time as you saying i fail, which is making you look more stupid than you probably imagine while your mucking about with smilies and saying ime foolish First, use spell check, second try to use intelligence, facts and knowledge. Water can destroy Kain but the one who possesses far greater powers than Kain just coz he is an amped up vampire doesn't mean he can't die. Pyron, Dante and even Kratos with all their powers alone can beat him. In a team Kain gets destroyed. Dante's ice weapon the Cerberus from DMC 3 would kill Kain since ice melts into water and that is deadly to vampire. Or Dante just could use the Sparda form from DMC 2 and one shot Kain since that transformation one shots boss characters and in Sparda form he is invulnerable. I know that you won't understand my logic, why would you, a low intellect fanboy listen to others...

Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought

lol and a typical Terry thread "i kno nothing on LOK yet ime hatzor so Kain lose"

lol no its because kain has never any powerful feats, or have any powers he can do instantly, ppl overrated kain way too much.

Anyway, so what makes kain more powerful? except for his "evolution" which is pretty much bs, becuase he hasnt got any stronger in the last thousands of years from BO to defiance

Furion
Ummmm Sephs in here too.

Rewmac
Originally posted by Terryc250
lol no its because kain has never any powerful feats, or have any powers he can do instantly, ppl overrated kain way too much.

Anyway, so what makes kain more powerful? except for his "evolution" which is pretty much bs, becuase he hasnt got any stronger in the last thousands of years from BO to defiance Not people just this guy.

Charlotte DeBel
From what I've known, Inspire Hate has crappy record against non-humans. With Pyron I doubt he'd know WTF hate is, so that spell is moot against him. Your strategy about using Pyron to do Kain's bidding is quite lame, just because he was pwned by a vampire doesn't mean that he'll instantly become Kain's b*tch.

Also, BT darling, I'm surprised still not hearing your usual yelling about "Super Sparda form is teh gameplay". In fact, it becomes quite stupid.

BTW, by your logic that information from developers>>>>>>everything, Dante in DMC4 was officially confirmed being the most powerful demonic entinty in his universe. But that's just for fun, darling.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Rewmac
First, use spell check, second try to use intelligence, facts and knowledge. Water can destroy Kain but the one who possesses far greater powers than Kain just coz he is an amped up vampire doesn't mean he can't die. Pyron, Dante and even Kratos with all their powers alone can beat him. In a team Kain gets destroyed. Dante's ice weapon the Cerberus from DMC 3 would kill Kain since ice melts into water and that is deadly to vampire. Or Dante just could use the Sparda form from DMC 2 and one shot Kain since that transformation one shots boss characters and in Sparda form he is invulnerable. I know that you won't understand my logic, why would you, a low intellect fanboy listen to others...
not if i dont want to matiepie, yes i am using all of those things. Water....see you go at me about this "use facts and intelligence" BS, but then you forget Raziel was in the massive mealstrom that is the lake of the dead for a good 10 thouand years before dieing, he described tumbling and burning for what seemed like eternity, so no water is not a "instant" defeat for kain who is far more powerful than Raziel anyway. Nobody in this team has "far greater powers" no....and wtf, BS, give me one way in a true fight Kratos could beat kain, Kain would use TK on mortal kratos and God kratos would go the same way, Dante in a real kain battle would be nothing, his soul would be ripped before he could say pwned..Pyron would be the same, his size and overal power output do not avail him.

Sparda form can in-game one shot bosses and turn invsicible, theres no canon source that states it is truly invulralbe and one shotting bosses in DMC is not the same as one shotting kain, especially if its anything like the slow dragon attack he uses on Mundus

you have no logic, the fact you think ice melting on kain will get rid of him is bad enough, worse whne you think Dante will even hit kain with Cerberus before Kain rips him down. fail

Originally posted by Terryc250
lol no its because kain has never any powerful feats, or have any powers he can do instantly, ppl overrated kain way too much.

Anyway, so what makes kain more powerful? except for his "evolution" which is pretty much bs, becuase he hasnt got any stronger in the last thousands of years from BO to defiance

any powers he can do instantly, nobody in this matchup has powers they can do instantly, kains spells in BO are almost all instant and all of kains powers dont usually take more than a second, show me one character in this matchup who can do an attack "instantly" please that would make a diffrence

what makes him more powerful? and jesus Terry your terrible, he has not grown stronger? it even says in Soul reaver kain has evolved, your truly ridiculous trying to debate against kain, you really are

Originally posted by Rewmac
Not people just this guy.

child, debate, not spite...also please list your LOK knowledge obviously barely anything taking into account your last pathetic post

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
From what I've known, Inspire Hate has crappy record against non-humans. With Pyron I doubt he'd know WTF hate is, so that spell is moot against him. Your strategy about using Pyron to do Kain's bidding is quite lame, just because he was pwned by a vampire doesn't mean that he'll instantly become Kain's b*tch.

Also, BT darling, I'm surprised still not hearing your usual yelling about "Super Sparda form is teh gameplay". In fact, it becomes quite stupid.

BTW, by your logic that information from developers>>>>>>everything, Dante in DMC4 was officially confirmed being the most powerful demonic entinty in his universe. But that's just for fun, darling.

crappy record? when exactley......its just a spell that does it, and wether Pyron does or not and i think he does considering he has battled many beings who likely know hate and according to debates with V2D, Pyron scans planets of information, so he would know. How is it lame? he wont have a choice in the matter, i dont see your line of thinking, you thought that Kain was going to get Pyron to do it without forcing him? no, i mean hes going to possess pyron through soul wrack and use Pyron

how has it become stupid when Super sparda being completly invulerable and one hitting bosses is gameplay, one hitting bosses in gameplay has to be gameplay....hes never been invulerable in sparda form outside of the game and no logic tells us he must be otherwise he wouldnt walk around as a human, you would say "dante has more fun as a human" but hes not that arrogent, not in DMC2 he is much more mature there, and he would not fight despair embodied without super sparda in canon if he could easily beat it with..none of it adds up to the canon

so what? in his universe, who is he matched against exactley, i mean hell Mundus was considered a high demon king and look at him, hes a lame being...the big Belial or however you say his name, the four legged giant thing in DMC 4 looks much cooler and more powerful

Rewmac
Facts...Hmmm...Raziel was resurrected by Elderwood but nevermind. Kain can be killed by water as was stated over thousands of times in the various game. You call everybody here a fanboy, but you are the one who tries to tell everyone that Kain is invicible and nobody can beat him...Do you even know the story behind the games and haracters you mentioned I doubt it since you completely ignore the facts, boy.

Charlotte DeBel
And Belial got tooled, mocked and owned. In fact, it's stated that Dante is BORED in DMC4 since none of the demons he fights there is on his level. So he mocks and taunts any enemy that gets into his way.
Pyron knows what hate is...theoretically, for Inspire Hate being used you'll need someone who can actually experience it, not a being like Pyron who is devoid of any emotions. Information that something exists=\=actually experiencing it. Please stop being...like that.

As for human\demonic form, human form is Dante's natural form, and transformation requires conscious effort to happen. In the fight with Mundus, which was the FIRST time he transformed into high demonic form, he got knocked down which forced him to transform into human- he wasn't ready psychologically for a beating (remeber the cutscene before that, darling- he starts doing anything good like deflecting spells with his eyes only when he gets pissed off, so mantaining demonic form takes a conscious effort) And after all, Dante DID manage to beat Despair Embodied without his demonic form.
No fun is not an argument. In fact, being in human form in 90% of cutscenes doesn't make Dante a weakling. If anything, pwning demons of all sorts and powerlevels like that implies that he is a powerhouse indeed.
But CIS and gameplay would be an explanation. CIS (along with no killing humans needlessly policy shown in anime and novels) is the thing that he doesn't want to identify himself with the bastards that killed his parents- same reason Batman doesn't use guns.
CIS+conscious effort to stay in demonic form. That thread removes that "problem" stating unlimited DT for Dante, so what?

Burning thought
Originally posted by Rewmac
Facts...Hmmm...Raziel was resurrected by Elderwood but nevermind. Kain can be killed by water as was stated over thousands of times in the various game. You call everybody here a fanboy, but you are the one who tries to tell everyone that Kain is invicible and nobody can beat him...Do you even know the story behind the games and haracters you mentioned I doubt it since you completely ignore the facts, boy.

..lol your like an angry toddler, also cute with your "boy" comment, unfortunatley ime not acting as foolishly as you are

Raziel was, but it took ages for him to die, and as it stated Water hurts vampires, but as shown by Raziel, takes ages and ages to kill them

i call a lot of peopel fanboys, not everyone, what BS again, Kain cannot die, he can be beaten for sure, probably by loads and loads of characters but his scion status does not allow him to die, but in this match he only gets resurrected once.

What games? LOK ofc, DMC? yes played all the games from 1-3, God of war, completed 1 and 2 on highest difficulty settings..i know many of the characters, and none of them come close to Kains options in this battle, especially the lower ones like Kratos

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
And Belial got tooled, mocked and owned. In fact, it's stated that Dante is BORED in DMC4 since none of the demons he fights there is on his level. So he mocks and taunts any enemy that gets into his way.
Pyron knows what hate is...theoretically, for Inspire Hate being used you'll need someone who can actually experience it, not a being like Pyron who is devoid of any emotions. Information that something exists=\=actually experiencing it. Please stop being...like that.

As for human\demonic form, human form is Dante's natural form, and transformation requires conscious effort to happen. In the fight with Mundus, which was the FIRST time he transformed into high demonic form, he got knocked down which forced him to transform into human- he wasn't ready psychologically for a beating (remeber the cutscene before that, darling- he starts doing anything good like deflecting spells with his eyes only when he gets pissed off, so mantaining demonic form takes a conscious effort) And after all, Dante DID manage to beat Despair Embodied without his demonic form.
No fun is not an argument. In fact, being in human form in 90% of cutscenes doesn't make Dante a weakling. If anything, pwning demons of all sorts and powerlevels like that implies that he is a powerhouse indeed.
But CIS and gameplay would be an explanation. CIS (along with no killing humans needlessly policy shown in anime and novels) is the thing that he doesn't want to identify himself with the bastards that killed his parents- same reason Batman doesn't use guns.
CIS+conscious effort to stay in demonic form. That thread removes that "problem" stating unlimited DT for Dante, so what?

what do you mean emotionless, he seems like he can show emotions here and then in a lot of his ending scenes and things he says, it shows he has arrogence to a degree, why do you think pyron is emotionless considering he used to be a mortal warrior on Hellstorm or whatever his planet was called, he knows and likely feels hate considering he used to be a warrior, the spell "inspires" the hate, and the reaver version inspires conflict all together since its the conflict emblem. What do you mean stop being like that, like what exactley?

true he beat Despair without it, but if he could constantly use it or it was truly in-canon invuleralbe and could one shot anything he would of done with ease, or used it then and there, he did not however. Unlimtied DT for dante, but not the gameplay elements of his invulerability and one hit status, he could still unlikely not hit dimentional teleporting kain and the guy has never shown resistence to mind powers as far as i remember, no one has directly so far tried to get his brain for themselves so he may be susceptable to mind control. TK is another way of defeating Dante but he is not in this equation because you cant compare Dante to Pyron who Kain will be possessing to take out most of the team, even Jedah perhaps without his soul powers will be vulerable.

Rewmac
Just one thing...


flol

Burning thought
Originally posted by Rewmac
Just one thing...


flol

Estacado clone hm or are you Estacado?

troll with irrelevent rubbish when your argument is smashed into dust.."shrug"

Rewmac
Originally posted by Burning thought
Estacado clone hm or are you Estacado?

I troll with irrelevent rubbish when my argument is smashed into dust.."shrug"

Burning thought
good one chuck erm

but i doubt you could outroll Estacado if your not him, hell come on here and have a few smilies AND maybe a fail image........no argument ofc

Furion
I said Sephs in here.

Rewmac
Originally posted by Burning thought
good one chuck erm

but i doubt you could outroll Estacado if your not him, hell come on here and have a few smilies AND maybe a fail image........no argument ofc Spellcheck, and come up with something new.Originally posted by Furion
I said Sephs in here. He is indeed. If he has all his abilities he is going to be tough to kill...The team is simply too strong.

Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought

what makes him more powerful? and jesus Terry your terrible, he has not grown stronger? it even says in Soul reaver kain has evolved, your truly ridiculous trying to debate against kain, you really are

Usually in a debate this is when ur suppose to provide evidence of his evolution, but knwoing you, you never do, so how has kain "evolved"? He cant even use his spells from BO anymore.

Estacado
Edit.

Nevermind Kain will just possess a galaxy sized being with ease and stomp team one........crylaugh

ESB -1138
Originally posted by Tenfrente
All powers Kain, but without his soul suck ability and with 1 ressurection, vs all powers Dante with unlimited Devil Trigger, all powers Ryubusa, Raziel (without soul suck), all powers Jedah (without soul suck) and Pyron, all powers Sephiroth and all powers Kratos.

Please do not misconstrue this as spite, I have not played through the LOK series fully, and I want to see how powerful he is.

I say Kain wins just because of the [email protected] @$$ name you gave the team.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Furion
I said Sephs in here.
seriously Furion, he isnt...trust me, hes not really in this fight at all

Originally posted by Rewmac
Spellcheck, and come up with something new. He is indeed. If he has all his abilities he is going to be tough to kill...The team is simply too strong.


lawlz no, you come up with something at all, your debate is in ruins and all 3 of you together trying to beat me in this thread has become your downfall since now your scrapping for all you can get since youve got no argument

Originally posted by Terryc250
Usually in a debate this is when ur suppose to provide evidence of his evolution, but knwoing you, you never do, so how has kain "evolved"? He cant even use his spells from BO anymore.

i dont know how, but you said he has not become stronger, and it clearly states he has evolved in soulreaver 1, if you cant even find the soul reaver intro vid, then theres no point in debating with someone who will not even bother looking for respect threads, thats what their there for really. use them please i know the soul reaver intro must be in there, its a good video and i like it, so its likely in there

Originally posted by Estacado
Edit.

Nevermind Kain will just possess a galaxy sized being with ease and stomp team one........crylaugh


Galaxy sized? when please, see now it seems you dont have even the slightest knowledge on pyron perhaps? hes at best the size of the sun, nothing more and furthermore when has size added up to not being able to be possesed? thats BS and broken logic all over.....but yes, he does stomp team 1, its not much of a team even with kains limitations

Charlotte DeBel
Originally posted by Burning thought
..lol your like an angry toddler, also cute with your "boy" comment, unfortunatley ime not acting as foolishly as you are

Raziel was, but it took ages for him to die, and as it stated Water hurts vampires, but as shown by Raziel, takes ages and ages to kill them

i call a lot of peopel fanboys, not everyone, what BS again, Kain cannot die, he can be beaten for sure, probably by loads and loads of characters but his scion status does not allow him to die, but in this match he only gets resurrected once.

What games? LOK ofc, DMC? yes played all the games from 1-3, God of war, completed 1 and 2 on highest difficulty settings..i know many of the characters, and none of them come close to Kains options in this battle, especially the lower ones like Kratos



what do you mean emotionless, he seems like he can show emotions here and then in a lot of his ending scenes and things he says, it shows he has arrogence to a degree, why do you think pyron is emotionless considering he used to be a mortal warrior on Hellstorm or whatever his planet was called, he knows and likely feels hate considering he used to be a warrior, the spell "inspires" the hate, and the reaver version inspires conflict all together since its the conflict emblem. What do you mean stop being like that, like what exactley?

true he beat Despair without it, but if he could constantly use it or it was truly in-canon invuleralbe and could one shot anything he would of done with ease, or used it then and there, he did not however. Unlimtied DT for dante, but not the gameplay elements of his invulerability and one hit status, he could still unlikely not hit dimentional teleporting kain and the guy has never shown resistence to mind powers as far as i remember, no one has directly so far tried to get his brain for themselves so he may be susceptable to mind control. TK is another way of defeating Dante but he is not in this equation because you cant compare Dante to Pyron who Kain will be possessing to take out most of the team, even Jedah perhaps without his soul powers will be vulerable.

Fail in the part about hypnosis- was tried on him at least twice- in DMC3 manga and by Nevan in third game, and this is YOUNG Dante, not full powered one.
Thw part about being reluctant to DT being CIS also comes from that- if you remember, he RESISTED it and it only took Vergil to stomp him to dust. In fact in the end of scene with Agnus in DMC4 Dante clearly demonstrates his attitude to demonic legacy and says that being human is sometimes better than being demon- in fact fully powered Dante in DMC2 and DMC4 (BTW, those games have shown us the flaw of making ones about uber powered characters, so to make gameplay more interesting there were used "spotlight" characters less powerful than our handsome whitehaired high demonic lord-respectively Nero and Lucia).
And as for "using his advantages"...Batman can take gun any time, go and shoot Joker in the head thus ending that menace...oh, wait, he can't because of CIS on his part. In fact Dante is a little better than Bats- Batman NEVER uses guns (even if using those provides him strategical advantage, mind you); Dante SOMETIMES uses the advantages of his demonic form- when he can't manage without that, that's the "last hope ability" for him.

BTW, if using logical extensions of powers is true, then Dante can always f*ck up probabilities regarding Kain with help of Pandora Box and see what happens (in game that ability wasn't fully developed, despite promiced, but it still has Omen move with said effect).

Rewmac
@Burning thought : The funny part is everyone in this thread thinks your logic fails but you keep coming up with bullcrap.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Fail in the part about hypnosis- was tried on him at least twice- in DMC3 manga and by Nevan in third game, and this is YOUNG Dante, not full powered one.
Thw part about being reluctant to DT being CIS also comes from that- if you remember, he RESISTED it and it only took Vergil to stomp him to dust. In fact in the end of scene with Agnus in DMC4 Dante clearly demonstrates his attitude to demonic legacy and says that being human is sometimes better than being demon- in fact fully powered Dante in DMC2 and DMC4 (BTW, those games have shown us the flaw of making ones about uber powered characters, so to make gameplay more interesting there were used "spotlight" characters less powerful than our handsome whitehaired high demonic lord-respectively Nero and Lucia).
And as for "using his advantages"...Batman can take gun any time, go and shoot Joker in the head thus ending that menace...oh, wait, he can't because of CIS on his part. In fact Dante is a little better than Bats- Batman NEVER uses guns (even if using those provides him strategical advantage, mind you); Dante SOMETIMES uses the advantages of his demonic form- when he can't manage without that, that's the "last hope ability" for him.

BTW, if using logical extensions of powers is true, then Dante can always f*ck up probabilities regarding Kain with help of Pandora Box and see what happens (in game that ability wasn't fully developed, despite promiced, but it still has Omen move with said effect).

fiar enough, he escapes Nevans "hynosis" but was she even using Hypnosis, she was trying to seduce i remember that, but was she using mind powers to tap into his brain, and ive not read the mangas so id need to see it please if you can, and of what kind of mind attack it may be

can you show me the logic behind the pandoras box thing please, does it do anything other than give dante various weapons he may need and make enemies shoot eachother? what does it do, can you show me please

as much as all this is nice, what possible diffrence will Dante make in this battle? when pyron is controlled or if Kain used inspire hate if he did not want to possess anyone, how is the team going to survive an enormous sun sized entity, there is nothing Kratos, Seph, Dante mosto f them could even do to Pyron imo, and Jedah even though more powerful in theory to Pyron, is without soul powers so in stats, has he any non soul feats that can match Pyrons power?

Originally posted by Rewmac
@Burning thought : The funny part is everyone in this thread thinks your logic fails but you keep coming up with bullcrap.


so...if a bunch of kids thought Einsteins theories were [email protected], are they? ofc not, he was brillaint, but thats a example of where a group of people who know nothing and dont have an argument against something can be wrong, this is not a democracy, this website is not likened to a group of stupid Americans who vote in stupid presidents just because they like them more, if you dont have an argument, then you all fail, simple.....until you have a good argument you all fail and your nothing but trolls, because your argument is gone, you troll because you dont like it and cannot admit your failure, at least Debel has arguments, you and Escadado are trolling with rubbish and have no argument since i crushed all the last ones and shed light on the fact you both know next to nothing on LOK and perhaps even the characters your debating for

Charlotte DeBel
Remember that nice Tarot spell of Kain? Omen power of Pandora box does just the same, except it's not limited to 5 enemies at the time. Flash- and they're dead. Sounds nice. Though you would counter that by Kain being the scion of balance or whatever, but OUTSIDE of Nosgoth it doesn't matter.

And once again, it's not Pyron vs his teammates with Kain taking a nap inside Mercury-sized Pyron's arsehole while he does the job for him, I suppose. You have NO PROOF Inspire Hate would affect Pyron. Making lesser enemies fight each other- wowz, what a great unbeatable power.

Charlotte DeBel
In manga he attends the party with some vampires present, one of them tries to subdue Dante to make him awaken his demonic side. Dante shrugs it off.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t463635.html
See the end of the page.

And do you want Nevan specially say to Dante "Now I'm using my high level vampire\succubus powers to make you my sex slave, my whitehaired sweet boy"? She TRIES to use that on Dante and after sees that it has no effect on him (BTW, anything with Dante vs succubi is funny- their hypnosis fails on him, but he has fun from watching them trying and basically watching free porn) she fights him. Once again, a vampire, a high level one, trying to manipulate basic aspects of human nature (in that case it's love, not hate, through, but that's manipulation of basic emotions).

Also even from manual description of the Inspire Hate it's seen that it amplifies the feeeling that naturally exists, blowing the most minor sparks into the mortal hatred. You may counter that it works on long term comrades- but minor annoyance exists even between those, Kain just amps the existing feeling.
Nevan's succubus powers work the same way. She uses it to amplify whatever feelings men have towards her to the great love, consuming their minds. While natural looks of Nevan have some effect on Dante (see the moment with pants), succubus' emotion manip FAILS. Utterly.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Remember that nice Tarot spell of Kain? Omen power of Pandora box does just the same, except it's not limited to 5 enemies at the time. Flash- and they're dead. Sounds nice. Though you would counter that by Kain being the scion of balance or whatever, but OUTSIDE of Nosgoth it doesn't matter.

And once again, it's not Pyron vs his teammates with Kain taking a nap inside Mercury-sized Pyron's arsehole while he does the job for him, I suppose. You have NO PROOF Inspire Hate would affect Pyron. Making lesser enemies fight each other- wowz, what a great unbeatable power.

you mean inspire hate? Tarot spell? Pandora Box makes them fight eachother? Whats Nosgoth to do with it at all? first in a Versus characters have all their attirbutes acustomed to them in their own world anyway but how will Kain be diffrent outside of Nosgoth, his body and spirit does not change.

it is pyron VS Team, Kain can shield in this, Kain can do tonnes of things, only his soul attacks were taken away so he cant take souls, but inspiring hate and possession is excellent
why would it not effect Pyron, it would effect Pyron greater than anyone on here considering first his beaten by magic canonically that Demitri uses a lot of, and second hes never shown any resistence at all to magic, especially not this type, not to menstion magic of this type has not been used on pyron

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
In manga he attends the party with some vampires present, one of them tries to subdue Dante to make him awaken his demonic side. Dante shrugs it off.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t463635.html
See the end of the page.

And do you want Nevan specially say to Dante "Now I'm using my high level vampire\succubus powers to make you my sex slave, my whitehaired sweet boy"? She TRIES to use that on Dante and after sees that it has no effect on him (BTW, anything with Dante vs succubi is funny- their hypnosis fails on him, but he has fun from watching them trying and basically watching free porn) she fights him. Once again, a vampire, a high level one, trying to manipulate basic aspects of human nature (in that case it's love, not hate, through, but that's manipulation of basic emotions).

where does it say their high level suc/vamp powers anywhere, she doesnt have to say it if you can provide me with evidence shes using some kinds of power other than simply trying to provoke a love interest. buit please describe to me how Dante can have any effect on this battle anyway?

also where are you getting lesser enemies from?

http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/bo1/spells.php

it says enemies in general nothing lesser about it

Charlotte DeBel
An emotional manip by vampiric goddess (the being of the same rank as Kain) fails. I've alreasy described WHY it was emotional manipulation. A victim of succubus forgets anything besides love for that, Dante reacts at her as if she was normal attractive woman, not succubus or anything. And she IS the vampire goddess with succubus powers coming as a bonus. Those powers are used to amplify normal emotions of human beings.

And BTW, if Pyron is that weak against magic then why do you think he would be any threat vs God Kratos, for example? In fact, Demetry fight states that magic is his kryptonite, isn't it (I've always thought that Darkstalkers is a crappy game which gets their audience due to Morrigan's boobs and fun of using Jedah's powers on those so I don't care about it much)? And he's being teamed up with some high level magical beings.

Charlotte DeBel
And as for Omen ability of Pandora Box


PF666 - Omen
Open Pandora's Box and damage all surrounding enemies with the flash of a violated taboo.
Does massive damage in a huge area.

Flash- and you're dead, darling.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
An emotional manip by vampiric goddess (the being of the same rank as Kain) fails. I've alreasy described WHY it was emotional manipulation. A victim of succubus forgets anything besides love for that, Dante reacts at her as if she was normal attractive woman, not succubus or anything. And she IS the vampire goddess with succubus powers coming as a bonus. Those powers are used to amplify normal emotions of human beings.

And BTW, if Pyron is that weak against magic then why do you think he would be any threat vs God Kratos, for example? In fact, Demetry fight states that magic is his kryptonite, isn't it (I've always thought that Darkstalkers is a crappy game which gets their audience due to Morrigan's boobs and fun of using Jedah's powers on those so I don't care about it much)? And he's being teamed up with some high level magical beings.

But its not direct mind control, its not like Kain going into Dantes mind directly, inspire hate is emotional but its a direct spell, you would have to have resistence to conflict magic to be able to resist the spell, and mind power resistence to resist mind control, also rank means nothing, also ime curious does it say shes a Vampire Goddess? i cant remember her saying anything like it in the game but she may have done, completed DMC 3 only twice and its a big game

what do you mean, he is no match for pyron, sun sized Pyron would wipe the floor with God Kratos simply because he would punch the guy, most of if not all God Kratos most powerful magic attacks are not worthy of pyron anyway. Pyrons size would mean he could outclass the powers of anyone in his team, inspire hate would work against pyrons size but i dont think anything in this team has magic powers like kains that would work against pyrons strengths (size and strength overall) that could take him on, i mean for exampe Sephiroths measly magics, God kratos lighting bolts compared to a being the size of the sun or even a planet is nothing

also thats assuming they even know Pyrons possessed or inspired to hate, the thing is going to be about to attack when suddenly he swings his arm round and Dante, Kratos and Sephiroth and Ryu its game over for, Jedah is the only one due to his liquidlike form who may survive

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
And as for Omen ability of Pandora Box


PF666 - Omen
Open Pandora's Box and damage all surrounding enemies with the flash of a violated taboo.
Does massive damage in a huge area.

Flash- and you're dead, darling.

but it says damage, nothing about instant death? this move is confusing, also technically kain is already dead and he can resurrect once, second he has a shield that protects him from all attacks, Pandoras box would be considred an attack ime sure and would you please stop calling me darling stick out tongue

Charlotte DeBel
The title is given to her in manual. Scans are to follow, she wasn't titled like that in the game, though. The descriptions of enemies and their status are usually given in the manual.
As for Dante's magic resistance, I've explained that point long ago- you "countered" that by showning him being knocked down by Mundus (when he previously sucessfully DEFLECTED the same attack from him- he was just unexperienced at the moment as he was using said power for the first time).

Repell SPELLS. None of those he faces (barring Sephiroth probably) is spellcaster. Stupid argument. Spells and arrows that are nowhere to be seen in that fight.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
The title is given to her in manual. Scans are to follow, she wasn't titled like that in the game, though. The descriptions of enemies and their status are usually given in the manual.
As for Dante's magic resistance, I've explained that point long ago- you "countered" that by showning him being knocked down by Mundus (when he previously sucessfully DEFLECTED the same attack from him- he was just unexperienced at the moment as he was using said power for the first time).

Repell SPELLS. None of those he faces (barring Sephiroth probably) is spellcaster. Stupid argument. Spells and arrows that are nowhere to be seen in that fight.

fair enough, deflecting that dark beam is one thing, deflecting something you cannot see, hear or touch and even sense in most cases before its already startng to rip your mind apart is unlikely and perhaps impossible for Dante, also the things Mundus fires are all physical to an extent or energy, for example the large energy beams he fires when flying, or the little physical shard things he fires 3 of into dante. Also Mundus charged that up for a while and its unkown if Dante could do this many times, or if he could do it at the drop of a hate against any spell.

where, look on the spells list, it says Repel protects kain from all attacks, and kain says it reflects spells meaing if someone cast a spell on him, it would hit them, but if someone hit him or fired some other attack, it would be ineffective but not reflect back onto them, also Sephiroth is a spellcaster, technically Ninpo from Ryu is close to spells.

Charlotte DeBel
And in fact Kain is slow as damn slug compared to some of the members of opposing team. Kain can't neither move nor cast spells on max speeds, while Dante (for example, I'm using examples with the character I know the best) was moving at max speeds when he was young (running down the Temen-Ni-Gri with air burning around him due to friction), his reaction speed is also>>>Kain's (arguments about Kain's mind being advanced is moot, he's master strategist, but please show me him multitasking on superspeeds or a feat of reaction speed comparable to shooting bullets out of the air with bullets or calculating the trajectory of snooker ball in a fractiopn of second). He can speedblitz Kain before he tries to cast anything.

Charlotte DeBel
Anyway, I don't feel like wasting my time and money talking with a brick wall. Good luck, guys. I'm leaving that thing for a while.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
And in fact Kain is slow as damn slug compared to some of the members of opposing team. Kain can't neither move nor cast spells on max speeds, while Dante (for example, I'm using examples with the character I know the best) was moving at max speeds when he was young (running down the Temen-Ni-Gri with air burning around him due to friction), his reaction speed is also>>>Kain's (arguments about Kain's mind being advanced is moot, he's master strategist, but please show me him multitasking on superspeeds or a feat of reaction speed comparable to shooting bullets out of the air with bullets or calculating the trajectory of snooker ball in a fractiopn of second). He can speedblitz Kain before he tries to cast anything.

slow as a slug? how so? and compared to whom, When Pyron gets going he can move FTL okie, Sephiroth can move faster apprently, no feats but apprently he can, Ryu ime not sure, Kratos, nopes

kain has teleportation, thats not moving, thats appearing somewhere incredibly quickly then back again at diffrent places and you keep bringing up "when he was young" BS, yeh and kain when he was 9000 years+ younger when he is now led several armies as general, could throw fully armoured knights around with one arm as well as tonnes of spells, that doesnt mean he can do everything so many times greater, infact Dante ageing which he has may reduce his speed. His mind is advanced, hes a master strategist true but he also has the mind emblem of the concept of the mind itself at hand. Also this speed BS especially Blitz would be impossible, Dante is not that fast, the only one capable of a speed Blitz technically in this match is Pyron and he has to built momentum for his full speed it seems.

problem with all ridiculous speed arguments when talking with "at the speed of sound" are moot, because you dont know the distance kain is starting from them, second Kain has to move his hand or think for mind powers/soul possesion, Dante would have to do a lot more to get to kain, moving kains hand would be faster than dante could close the gap thats for sure, since Dante is not that fast, unless ofc the distance is only a few metres, which is BS unless Pyron is not sun sized or is starting a good distance from the main team, if kain was that close to dante, then they would both be gonners, only Dante more permanently because Kain has one resurrection



Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Anyway, I don't feel like wasting my time and money talking with a brick wall. Good luck, guys. I'm leaving that thing for a while.

yeh yeh, tickling the trolls again, and now your becoming a troll and a copout having to use a "brick wall" rubbish because your argument doesnt stand up, like the rest of them


so ive beaten 2 trolls and a copout in a couple of pages of debate, lawlz, i would of thought you could troll better than that considering Estacado is here.

ESB -1138
Are you actually suggesting Kain wins? It says all powers Dante which gives Dante the ability to freeze/slow down time. Not to mention Sephiroth can teleport as well.

Burning thought
Kain can freeze/slow time to equel effect, Sephiroth is a non factor

here if youll civilally debate, and have some arguments bring them to the table, ime bored and could do with a proper debate, also this all crashes down in the effect kain would put a shield up before most of them could do anytihng, i think all he does is move his hand if even that, or his eyes glow green, there were not that many animation effects on kains BO1 spells to compare to nowday modern games, i dont remember him taking long at all to do any spells

also whats dante going to do? even if he slows time and somehow gets to Kain, and kills him once, that gives kain the ability to resurrect somewhere, it could be anywhere, behind the team, eslware in battle and surprise attack

Furion
Originally posted by Burning thought

so ive beaten 2 trolls and a copout in a couple of pages of debate, lawlz, i would of thought you could troll better than that considering Estacado is here.
Yeah but you still have me to deal with smile
1. That slow ass time projectile sucks da uberness. Like Seph would get hit by that.
2. His other Time thingy, the slow time one is it, how much is it's range again. Seph can just stay afar and pelt him with spells.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Furion
Yeah but you still have me to deal with smile
1. That slow ass time projectile sucks da uberness. Like Seph would get hit by that.
2. His other Time thingy, the slow time one is it, how much is it's range again. Seph can just stay afar and pelt him with spells.

1. its not slow, and youve never seen it, show me it being slow to prove your theory....and yes he will be hit, when Kain is teleported next to him and hes slowed in a time field

2. 10-20 metres, but it stays active over a period of time where Kain could teleport right next to any of the characters except pyron and then their doomed if he uses one of his specalties like time bolt

furthermore, Seph as i said before may as well not be in the fight, hes nothing, pyron will swat him for kain, or Dante will, but Pyron is the only true threat to kain, without him this would be both in a way easier and harder for kain, easier because theres no a big guy who can go FTL and destroy kain easily, or harder because theres not a big guy to possess and swat the rest of his team

Charlotte DeBel
Not done yet, darling. Try again.
1. Dante has teleportation as well, in DMC4 he has developed all his brother's powers, including tactical teleportation (coughDimensionReavercough) and energy swords (not that that pseudoTK is relevant there).
2.Young version=19years old one, him running at Max speeds was actually shown as he a)outruns the bullet; b)air around him starts burning because of friction, that's the reentry speed. The speed feats of adult one from DMC4 and DMC2 are more teleportation-related, so that may be handy. But Dante doesn't seem like slow ass even when he's 30-40 years old in those games.
3.Mind emblem? One of the things developers wanted to include but didn't and there are no pillars present, I suppose.
If we're talking about things that were planned to be included in the games, then listen, and listen carefully, darling- what you're going to face (I'm talking about Dante there and things omitted during DMC4 development).
a)Nyx, primal spear. Basically Cassius Longin spear, ultimate thing against undeads and demons. Think Moebius staff.
Note:was thought to be an unlockable, then omitted.
b)Pandora Box being able to suck enemies into it, basically banishing them to Hell. Oh, I already can predict how you're countering that.
4. In fact, Dante may willingly take pounding from Kratos or Seph. In DMC4 it's shown that he can absorb kinetic (etc)energy from his opponents' attacks he blocks and use it to turn into totally invulnerable "dreadnaught" form, which can't be TK'ed as well (Nero's TK doesn't work on it). His speed and teleportation abilities doesn't suffer from that. There goes "mighty" Kain's TK.

Classic NES
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Not done yet, darling. Try again.
1. Dante has teleportation as well, in DMC4 he has developed all his brother's powers, including tactical teleportation (coughDimensionReavercough) and energy swords (not that that pseudoTK is relevant there).
2.Young version=19years old one, him running at Max speeds was actually shown as he a)outruns the bullet; b)air around him starts burning because of friction, that's the reentry speed. The speed feats of adult one from DMC4 and DMC2 are more teleportation-related, so that may be handy. But Dante doesn't seem like slow ass even when he's 30-40 years old in those games.
3.Mind emblem? One of the things developers wanted to include but didn't and there are no pillars present, I suppose.
If we're talking about things that were planned to be included in the games, then listen, and listen carefully, darling- what you're going to face (I'm talking about Dante there and things omitted during DMC4 development).
a)Nyx, primal spear. Basically Cassius Longin spear, ultimate thing against undeads and demons. Think Moebius staff.
Note:was thought to be an unlockable, then omitted.
b)Pandora Box being able to suck enemies into it, basically banishing them to Hell. Oh, I already can predict how you're countering that.
4. In fact, Dante may willingly take pounding from Kratos or Seph. In DMC4 it's shown that he can absorb kinetic (etc)energy from his opponents' attacks he blocks and use it to turn into totally invulnerable "dreadnaught" form, which can't be TK'ed as well (Nero's TK doesn't work on it). His speed and teleportation abilities doesn't suffer from that. There goes "mighty" Kain's TK.

Kain uses TK shackles and wins!http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3817/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif

Burning thought
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Not done yet, darling. Try again.
1. Dante has teleportation as well, in DMC4 he has developed all his brother's powers, including tactical teleportation (coughDimensionReavercough) and energy swords (not that that pseudoTK is relevant there).
2.Young version=19years old one, him running at Max speeds was actually shown as he a)outruns the bullet; b)air around him starts burning because of friction, that's the reentry speed. The speed feats of adult one from DMC4 and DMC2 are more teleportation-related, so that may be handy. But Dante doesn't seem like slow ass even when he's 30-40 years old in those games.
3.Mind emblem? One of the things developers wanted to include but didn't and there are no pillars present, I suppose.
If we're talking about things that were planned to be included in the games, then listen, and listen carefully, darling- what you're going to face (I'm talking about Dante there and things omitted during DMC4 development).
a)Nyx, primal spear. Basically Cassius Longin spear, ultimate thing against undeads and demons. Think Moebius staff.
Note:was thought to be an unlockable, then omitted.
b)Pandora Box being able to suck enemies into it, basically banishing them to Hell. Oh, I already can predict how you're countering that.
4. In fact, Dante may willingly take pounding from Kratos or Seph. In DMC4 it's shown that he can absorb kinetic (etc)energy from his opponents' attacks he blocks and use it to turn into totally invulnerable "dreadnaught" form, which can't be TK'ed as well (Nero's TK doesn't work on it). His speed and teleportation abilities doesn't suffer from that. There goes "mighty" Kain's TK.

Try what again? i didnt try anything in the first place...
1. Teleportation, its very limited teleportation and moves in straight lines or vertically unlike the dimension reaver which ports anywhere and everywhere many times.
2. can you find the Youtube vid for your "faster" than a bullet argument please, id like to see it. And yes, the wiser adult version would use Teleportation over movement speeds, like kain does...
3. well sure but only if youve got a good case why you think it should be here, and the pillars excisting dont mean anything, the emblems are diffrent from the pillars, some of the emblems were not included as pickups due to no time to add them but canonically, you would have a full balance emblem only if you have all the others, so why were these things not added?
a) you can give him that spear if you want....

b) if you know how ime going to counter it, then why post it if you feel its going to be countered.

4. but what about Pyron, one whack and Dante would be ashes if that. Invulerability will not acitavte, why would Kratos or Seph attack Dante, unless you mean if they were inspired with hate, then Dante wont really be taking kinetic damage, he would be ripped apart, Sephiroth would unlikely use his sword VS dante in a real matchup and Kratos is incredible strong and may use Gorgon stare...then thats the end for Dante. Also he does not "need" TK also when did i say he was going to use it in this battle, hes unlikely to be using TK because he will be using Pyron

Originally posted by Classic NES
Kain uses TK shackles and wins!http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3817/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif

dont you troll as well, heavens this forum has enough of them, no Kain uses Spirit wrack and wins! http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3817/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif

Classic NES
I love the comparison of Pyron and Kain. Clearly they are equals in that much respects!http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3817/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif

Burning thought
Originally posted by Classic NES
I love the comparison of Pyron and Kain. Clearly they are equals in that much respects!http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3817/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif

is that real English?

"clearly they are equels in that much respects" i dont get it...

Furion
Originally posted by Burning thought
1. its not slow, and youve never seen it, show me it being slow to prove your theory....and yes he will be hit, when Kain is teleported next to him and hes slowed in a time field

2. 10-20 metres, but it stays active over a period of time where Kain could teleport right next to any of the characters except pyron and then their doomed if he uses one of his specalties like time bolt

furthermore, Seph as i said before may as well not be in the fight, hes nothing, pyron will swat him for kain, or Dante will, but Pyron is the only true threat to kain, without him this would be both in a way easier and harder for kain, easier because theres no a big guy who can go FTL and destroy kain easily, or harder because theres not a big guy to possess and swat the rest of his team
Compared to Seph, It's slow. Plus if Kain teleported next to Seph he could either:
Teleport away
Stick his sword through Kain's head.
But that would be if Kain went after Seph.

Charlotte DeBel
Originally posted by Furion
Compared to Seph, It's slow. Plus if Kain teleported next to Seph he could either:
Teleport away
Stick his sword through Kain's head.
But that would be if Kain went after Seph.

Pretty much the same can be said about Dante, plus Dante thinks faster than Kain (that doesn't equal being smarter than Kain, darling) and he can use his time manipulation\tactical teleportation.
Kain is a slug compared to both Dante and Seph, probably Ryu (but he's the weakest there).

There we go. Outruns and catches his sword accelerated by bullet to Max speed (thus the friction "burning" aura appears).
TmHdLB6f5A8
Some evasive stuff with teleportation as well as some nice cutting feats. See, the flying guy thinks he swings his sword as fast as Kain- he's mistaken as the time needed for him to turn around and cut Dante's head off is AGES for our whitehaired beauty.
RBeoaFeCUSA
I won't post Despair Embodied feat. What's funny is that both Despair Embodied and previously mentioned things are FASTER than Dante (even DTd\SDTd one) in gameplay.
Wait, I guess I should post.
-Ht40zJW4Wk

Also Royakl Guard absorbs not only punches but blasts as well, Medusa gaze is slow as ass and easy to evade...

Burning thought
Originally posted by Furion
Compared to Seph, It's slow. Plus if Kain teleported next to Seph he could either:
Teleport away
Stick his sword through Kain's head.
But that would be if Kain went after Seph.

youve not seen it, prove youve seen it first then you can say its slow, you wouldnt even know, and BS, he wouldnt teleport away or stick his sword, i told you hed teleport while his 10 metre time power was on, it follows him where he goes, so it would be right next to sephiroth, kain would w8 for 5 seconds with a cruel smile on his face while looking at Seph...then seph will be blasted to pieces with a reaver slash

but exactley, kain is not going after Seph at all....he does not have to when he can use the rest of Sephs team to destroy seph

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Pretty much the same can be said about Dante, plus Dante thinks faster than Kain (that doesn't equal being smarter than Kain, darling) and he can use his time manipulation\tactical teleportation.
Kain is a slug compared to both Dante and Seph, probably Ryu (but he's the weakest there).

There we go. Outruns and catches his sword accelerated by bullet to Max speed (thus the friction "burning" aura appears).
TmHdLB6f5A8
Some evasive stuff with teleportation as well as some nice cutting feats. See, the flying guy thinks he swings his sword as fast as Kain- he's mistaken as the time needed for him to turn around and cut Dante's head off is AGES for our whitehaired beauty.
RBeoaFeCUSA
I won't post Despair Embodied feat. What's funny is that both Despair Embodied and previously mentioned things are FASTER than Dante (even DTd\SDTd one) in gameplay.
Wait, I guess I should post.
-Ht40zJW4Wk

Also Royakl Guard absorbs not only punches but blasts as well, Medusa gaze is slow as ass and easy to evade...

can you show me him "thinking" faster than kain, what makes you think he will think faster by enough to beat kain from moving his hand, unlikely story

show me him moving bullet speed by himself please, first hes falling throughout the whole of the first video, adding to his momentum, weight as he falls, his running is not exactley making a diffrence as we see hes going at the same falling speed even when spinning, then we see him shoot his sword, i thought you were showing me him moving bullet speed, hes going fast but hes helped by the fact hes falling anyway, whats the speed feat exactley, yes the sword is going hot, first it was shot and by the time its falling its weight is likely getting incredibly high as well as well as the friction build up, but thats not speed unless Dante is falling during this entire fight again kain roll eyes (sarcastic)

second video, very impressive blade slash, and the game looks very good, i like DMC games and this looks a very good addition, i wonder do you get to play as Dante or is it mostly only Nero? or a bit of each?

but anyway onto the video, i dont see the teleportation, he does not teleport anywhere by the looks of it, he just jumps a lot and floats

Medusa gaze is not slow, the flash version is basically instant, Kratos would just have to aim, if this is God Kratos, none of these apart from jedah and pyron could take God Kratos quickly before his Medusas flash turns them to stone, if the head of Euryale gets larger with Kratos the same as his blades do then it would be able to turn all 3 of the smaller combatants to stone in a flash

Charlotte DeBel
Darling, he was actually running down the wall, not falling- he reaches his sword (accelerated one) while RUNNING down the tower. I'm watching that video right now and he RUNS there, though he resorts to a free fall after the bird things are finished off (and gets eaten while in free fall). Remember nice "Sky Star" move from Trickster style, darling?

Second video- the moment when some guy (no slouch himself) wants to hit Dante with the sword, only to find that Dante has disappeared out of harm's way and did it fast enough to appear with the Rebellion properly placed on his back and all. And where did he float? He is standing on Rebellion blade while talking with Sanctus- he can't fly in human form (though Lucifer weapon forms metal wings for him to fly even in human form).
Off topic- as for the game, it's 13 missions as Nero and 7 ones as Dante.

Now back to reaction speed feats.
sLqhh8pFSsE
Reacts fast enough to block Lady's bullets with his own shots- quite a feat, I should say.
RtvuS3KA7J8
That might be more of an aim feat but that's still impressive as he alters the trajectory of sword with his shots while in midair.
9ZE7wnnDNxA
This one is funny. Dante ALLOWS Berial to run into him only to get him shot the moment he approaches him. Also minor resistance to fire and those metal wings from Lucifer.

Charlotte DeBel
In fact, the first feat shown requires very good reaction speed. More minor "altering the trajectory of things in midair".

The snooker ball thing is nice, as it shows him calculating the trajectory of marble (or something, but it isn't wooden) balls to make them hit all the demons with enough force to KO them.

RJ6168DoxHY
The demons might be weaklings, but...still impressive reaction speed. While Kain has never done anything impressive in that department.

And here's the very surfing on rocket launcher thing that also requires very good reaction speed.
_FQoUuzlCms

Furion
Originally posted by Burning thought
but exactley, kain is not going after Seph at all....he does not have to when he can use the rest of Sephs team to destroy sephflash
K, Kain possesses Pyron, Seph summons Nega-Lifestream, Nega-Lifestream goes into Pyron, Seph possess Pyron, Seph beats the crap outta Kain. smile

Charlotte DeBel
Originally posted by Furion
K, Kain possesses Pyron, Seph summons Nega-Lifestream, Nega-Lifestream goes into Pyron, Seph possess Pyron, Seph beats the crap outta Kain. smile

Exactly, if Pyron is weak to magic (which he is), why bother using him against a being who can easily override Kain's mind controlsmile
As for your second variant, I've shown that Dante is most likely immune to magical-caused emotion amplifying which Inspire Hate is, no matter how you'll cut it.
As for Sephiroth and Inspire Hate, I suppose he has some experience with those types of attacks as well. But I'll leave the Seph part to Furion, as he's the Sephiroth's advocate there.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Darling, he was actually running down the wall, not falling- he reaches his sword (accelerated one) while RUNNING down the tower. I'm watching that video right now and he RUNS there, though he resorts to a free fall after the bird things are finished off (and gets eaten while in free fall). Remember nice "Sky Star" move from Trickster style, darling?

Second video- the moment when some guy (no slouch himself) wants to hit Dante with the sword, only to find that Dante has disappeared out of harm's way and did it fast enough to appear with the Rebellion properly placed on his back and all. And where did he float? He is standing on Rebellion blade while talking with Sanctus- he can't fly in human form (though Lucifer weapon forms metal wings for him to fly even in human form).
Off topic- as for the game, it's 13 missions as Nero and 7 ones as Dante.

Now back to reaction speed feats.
sLqhh8pFSsE
Reacts fast enough to block Lady's bullets with his own shots- quite a feat, I should say.
RtvuS3KA7J8
That might be more of an aim feat but that's still impressive as he alters the trajectory of sword with his shots while in midair.
9ZE7wnnDNxA
This one is funny. Dante ALLOWS Berial to run into him only to get him shot the moment he approaches him. Also minor resistance to fire and those metal wings from Lucifer.


Its impossible to just run down a wall without falling, he was falling "darling" and his feet running were simpling speeding the process, we can see his falling when he stops running, hes falling throughout most of it

that was not neccerily teleport, Dante just moves too fast for the guy, the way Dante comes down afterwards points to it not being teleportation.

blocking ladies bullets, fair enough i suppose, not a bad feat, if they were at longer range it would be better but thats not bad.

The surfing on the Rocket feat is not really reaction, its more balance and agility

Originally posted by Furion
K, Kain possesses Pyron, Seph summons Nega-Lifestream, Nega-Lifestream goes into Pyron, Seph possess Pyron, Seph beats the crap outta Kain. smile

how will Negative lifestream do anything to pyron, its a tiny planate sized force anyway....Pyron one hits Seph

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Exactly, if Pyron is weak to magic (which he is), why bother using him against a being who can easily override Kain's mind controlsmile
As for your second variant, I've shown that Dante is most likely immune to magical-caused emotion amplifying which Inspire Hate is, no matter how you'll cut it.
As for Sephiroth and Inspire Hate, I suppose he has some experience with those types of attacks as well. But I'll leave the Seph part to Furion, as he's the Sephiroth's advocate there.

The negative lifestream is a tiny speck on pyron...what being who can easily overide kains mind control? also what mind control?

how so? emotion amplifying? its just a magic attack that makes you hate someone full stop, its not a seduction effect like a succubus would use...
but he does not, ive never seen him work against something that would inspire him through magic to do something, Sephiroth is not a part of this fight tbh

Furion
Prove it couldn't do anything to Pyron. Kain is a tiny fleck compared to Pyron but he can possess Pyron? Nega-Lifestream is basically a lot of energy with J-Cells mixed to corrupt that energy. Pyron absorbs energy. He absorbs Nega-Lifestream then Seph possesses PYron and boots Kain out of Pyron's head.

Classic NES
Pyron's weak against magic, since when? Losing to Dimitri doesn't necessarily mean he's weak against magic.

Estacado
Dante can't teleport?haermm
Then wtf is he doing when he is using the trickster style?

Classic NES
Moving really fast. erm

Estacado
Originally posted by Classic NES
Moving really fast. erm
Have you ever played DMC 4 or 3?
He is clearly teleporting just like Vergil.no expression

Classic NES
Originally posted by Estacado
Have you ever played DMC 4 or 3?
He is clearly teleporting just like Vergil.no expression

It looks like basic generic speed done in most japanese games to me. Infact, if they could actually teleport, why would he travel by foot? Why not teleport like the Hell Vanguard did when Dante defeated him?

Charlotte DeBel
Air Trick from Trickster style=teleporting next to enemy.
DMC4- Darkslayer style based on teleportation, and please watch that Saviour vid carefully- he's clearly either teleported from Rebellion blade he was standing on (most likely from how it looks), or just moved away extremely fast.

And free fall DID contribute something to that bullet feat, but honestly, speed of bullet>>>speed of free fall, and speed of reentry Dante achieves in that video also>>>speed of free fall.

Estacado
Originally posted by Classic NES
It looks like basic generic speed done in most japanese games to me. Infact, if he could actually teleport, why would he travel by foot? Why not teleport like the Hell Vanguard did when Dante defeated him?
Vergil can teleport then why does he travel by foot?

Charlotte DeBel
Dante has mastered normal teleportation only in 4th game (unlike Vergil he's more about moving extremely fast than teleporting), Air Trick from DMC3 was a short range tactical one, a bit like one Kain has with his Dimension Reaver.
And puh-lease don't show moving a few miles as a beam of energy an example of zomg powerful teleportation from Kain, freakin' Trish has replicated that feat with lightning in DMC1 (can post video if you wish).

Classic NES
Originally posted by Estacado
Vergil can teleport then why does he travel by foot?

You tell me, since I never claimed it was teleportation.


Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Air Trick from Trickster style=teleporting next to enemy.
DMC4- Darkslayer style based on teleportation, and please watch that Saviour vid carefully- he's clearly either teleported from Rebellion blade he was standing on (most likely from how it looks), or just moved away extremely fast.



I beleive it's the later, since Teleportation is much more disticnt. I really do not see any properties that are usually associated with Teleportation in Dante/Vergils movements E.G. Dematerializing and/or Instantaneous or near instantaneous travel.

All, I see is a movement followed by a blur. . .

Estacado
Originally posted by Classic NES
You tell me, since I never claimed it was teleportation.




I beleive it's the later, since Teleportation is much more disticnt. I really do not see any properties that are usually associated with Teleportation in Dante/Vergils movements E.G. Dematerializing and/or Instantaneous or near instantaneous travel.

All, I see is a movement followed by a blur. . .
Then play DMC 3 SE. no expression

Classic NES
Originally posted by Estacado
Then play DMC 3 SE. no expression

Already have. . .erm

Charlotte DeBel
For example, K's "teleportation" aka Blackout isn't instanteous point to point and is just a speedup as you can see that black afterimage and all, that's what you're meaning, Classic NES. Darkslayer style is a teleportation without afterimages and all that shizzle- to benefit our Dantizzle.

Classic NES
Well, not all teleportations have after images. The reason why I say this is because Dante's movements are very similar to those found in Dragonball or Street fighter. The later franchise being the one with the most influence to modern DMC games. Since both are owned by the same company.

Charlotte DeBel
Teleportation, true one, shouldn't have an afterimage. If it's present (like in situation with K's Blackout and many, many other cases from fighting games, SF also has lots of said "teleports"wink it's most likely speedup and not teleportation.
Vergil teleports without afterimages, so does Dante with Darkslayer style (Trickster has some halfass teleporting move which can, honestly, be what you claim).
Also you're right with Dante's fireball-uppercut hand to hand moveset aka personalized version of Jeet Kune Do be inspired by Street Fighter.

Classic NES
It's not the afterimages that I'm referring too only. It's the way it's done as well. A quick forward movement indicates Dante/Vergil is propelling himself forward. He only disappears after gaining some ground, that seems to me like super speed. Similar to Yang's Kaioh.

Rewmac
Originally posted by Classic NES
It's not the afterimages that I'm referring too only. It's the way it's done as well. A quick forward movement indicates Dante/Vergil is propelling himself forward. He only disappears after gaining some ground, that seems to me like super speed. Similar to Yang's Kaioh. Well, not. Dante uses the trickster style to seemingly teleport short distances. well Virgil is arguable. But he moves at the speed not visible to human eyes when doing the particular attack. Also the darkslayer style also includes an upward teleportation when enemy is hit in the air.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Furion
Prove it couldn't do anything to Pyron. Kain is a tiny fleck compared to Pyron but he can possess Pyron? Nega-Lifestream is basically a lot of energy with J-Cells mixed to corrupt that energy. Pyron absorbs energy. He absorbs Nega-Lifestream then Seph possesses PYron and boots Kain out of Pyron's head.

because the Negative lifestream is based around what? its all about lifestream energy in beings to take them over, when has Nega lifestream taken anything over anyway, also Kains magic is based around possesing the spirit a being or the mind if using mind control, the size of a being does not make a diffrence in these attributes wheras Negative lifestream would be a tiny thing, second its like a projectile in theory only like a floating black cloud and to pyron it wouldnt be anything at all, he could just outreach it and smash sephiroth

kain wont be in pyrons head....

Originally posted by Estacado
Dante can't teleport?haermm
Then wtf is he doing when he is using the trickster style?

who said he couldnt teleport?

Originally posted by Classic NES
Pyron's weak against magic, since when? Losing to Dimitri doesn't necessarily mean he's weak against magic.

well how else can it be? Demitri uses mostly magic powers, so unless you implying Demtri simply beat him into Submission, which is unlikely, pyron seems to be a physical powerhouse always, even if not massive size

also he certainly doesnt have resistence to such magics so its a moot point

Charlotte DeBel
Originally posted by Rewmac
Well, not. Dante uses the trickster style to seemingly teleport short distances. well Virgil is arguable. But he moves at the speed not visible to human eyes when doing the particular attack. Also the darkslayer style also includes an upward teleportation when enemy is hit in the air.

The aerial teleportation in Darkslayer and Air Trick seems more like tactical teleportation. Also notice that while Dante has plenty of moves clearly stated as moving on superspeed (i/e/ Sky Star) while Vergil doesn't run as it is. His moveset is clearly stated to be tactical teleportation.
Also notice that Dante's supposing teleport cutscenes (frm DMC2 and DMC4) all happen by the time he has mastered Darkslayer style with its tactical teleportation.

Classic NES
Originally posted by Rewmac
Well, not. Dante uses the trickster style to seemingly teleport short distances. well Virgil is arguable. But he moves at the speed not visible to human eyes when doing the particular attack. Also the darkslayer style also includes an upward teleportation when enemy is hit in the air.

Couldn't just be considered really fast jumping. I agree that Vergils is debatable, but it seems like a really fast speed blitz.

Charlotte DeBel
Originally posted by Classic NES
Couldn't just be considered really fast jumping. I agree that Vergils is debatable, but it seems like a really fast speed blitz.

No, if it was like that it'd be more like flying than jumping and we all know neither Dante nor Vergil can fly in human form (Lucifer's metal wings don't count). So that's still tactical teleport.

Classic NES
In their human forms defy gravity with double jumps.

@ BT

He doesn't have to have resistance to magic to survive encounter with it. Your claiming he's susceptible to magic because he lost to demitri. But, he never showed any weakness towards it. considering he defeated several Makai. He even effected Bishimons magical energy with his powers alone.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Classic NES

@ BT

He doesn't have to have resistance to magic to survive encounter with it. Your claiming he's susceptible to magic because he lost to demitri. But, he never showed any weakness towards it. considering he defeated several Makai. He even effected Bishimons magical energy with his powers alone.

he does if its something like soul possesion or mind control or spells that may not even be in DS at all, theres no reason why he could resist them, their not physical attacks either, their an effect, you either resist it, or are taken by it..and Pyron has nothing to defend him against something like these spells

Classic NES
All you need to resist mental attacks or poisoning from evil aura is a dark heart yourself. It's not really, just psychic abilities. As for soul suck, it depends on the level. Pyron couldn't resist an attack from say Jedah, but that's why he's weaker. You don't really need magic to perform super natural abilities. In Pyrons case, he's evolved into a cosmic being.

Furion
Originally posted by Burning thought
because the Negative lifestream is based around what? its all about lifestream energy in beings to take them over, when has Nega lifestream taken anything over anyway, also Kains magic is based around possesing the spirit a being or the mind if using mind control, the size of a being does not make a diffrence in these attributes wheras Negative lifestream would be a tiny thing, second its like a projectile in theory only like a floating black cloud and to pyron it wouldnt be anything at all, he could just outreach it and smash sephiroth

1. ummm, When Kadaj dumped that tiny amount of J-Cells on himself, he turned into Sephiroth. Also earlier in the film, Cloud's eyes turn into Seph's eyes for a sec or two.
2. Sephiroth can just abandon his body. Pyron can't touch him then. Then he can just shove the Nega-Lifestream right up Pyron's ass and possess him.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Classic NES
All you need to resist mental attacks or poisoning from evil aura is a dark heart yourself. It's not really, just psychic abilities. As for soul suck, it depends on the level. Pyron couldn't resist an attack from say Jedah, but that's why he's weaker. You don't really need magic to perform super natural abilities. In Pyrons case, he's evolved into a cosmic being.


hmm a dark heart resists mental attacks? and your talking about what now, an evil aura?.......dude that doesnt make any sense

soul suck is not allowed in this fight, kain does not "suck" souls, the reaver does, kain does not...he cannot from jedah but from another? why so....this does not have any proof behind it, Pyrons soul has never showned defence, infact no one in DS has from my knowledge, no one has resisted having their souls ripped

Originally posted by Furion
1. ummm, When Kadaj dumped that tiny amount of J-Cells on himself, he turned into Sephiroth. Also earlier in the film, Cloud's eyes turn into Seph's eyes for a sec or two.
2. Sephiroth can just abandon his body. Pyron can't touch him then. Then he can just shove the Nega-Lifestream right up Pyron's ass and possess him.

1. Kadaj is not a sun sized load of energy, when has it ever effected energy?

2. show me this abandon his body while still doing things please

Sephiroth is not possessing anyone, hes going down hard

Furion
Also the Lifestream would be inside Pyron, therefore hes got Lifestream in himsmile

Estacado
Only Kain can possess in this match no one else1111!!!!

Furion
Ummm, THE FVCKING LIFESTREAM! Seph just being in the Lifestream and having everyone with Geo-stigma die infected the Lifestream into the Nega-Lifestream. I don't give a damn how big Pyron is, a Virus is so fvcking small, how does it kill you? IT SPREADS! Even better since Pyron is made out of energy, It will simply spread through Pyron like Wild fire.
At the end of the fight, Seph abadoned Kadaj's body.

Rewmac
Originally posted by Burning thought


Sephiroth is not possessing anyone, hes going down hard How?

How is Kain gonna possess Pyron? At the last Kain we've seen was never doing it. In Blood Omen he might have used that but last time we've seen him in the Legacy Of Kain he wasn't possessing shit.

How is he going to beat the strongest demon there is? The Sparda form of Dante which defeated Mundus (the ruler of hell, creator of evil). And that wasn't the full experienced Dante.

Raziel with all of his power would alone beat Kain.

Kratos with all his powers???? God Of War. Size manipulation, power of the titans, power of the gods, the blades. Raziel alone ripped Kain's heart out easily. The limbs of Kain won't grow back. If his head is cut he dies. Why? He won't be turning into bats and shit. Use logic. Raziel can't die until he can possess bodies plus the Elder God just can keep brining him back.

You fail again and again...

Burning thought
Originally posted by Rewmac
How?

How is Kain gonna possess Pyron? At the last Kain we've seen was never doing it. In Blood Omen he might have used that but last time we've seen him in the Legacy Of Kain he wasn't possessing shit.

How is he going to beat the strongest demon there is? The Sparda form of Dante which defeated Mundus (the ruler of hell, creator of evil). And that wasn't the full experienced Dante.

Raziel with all of his power would alone beat Kain.

Kratos with all his powers???? God Of War. Size manipulation, power of the titans, power of the gods, the blades. Raziel alone ripped Kain's heart out easily. The limbs of Kain won't grow back. If his head is cut he dies. Why? He won't be turning into bats and shit. Use logic. Raziel can't die until he can possess bodies plus the Elder God just can keep brining him back.

You fail again and again...


he uses spirit wrack, thats how, and so what if he doesnt use it in the last game....that does not mean anything at all

strongest Demon in his universe you mean. Simple, he would time bolt, mind control, soul control, soul blast or simply impale the guy

...lol Raziel......youve lost it....i think you better run and catch your marbles, their flying across the floor

And can you prove Kratos soul is immune?....all those things are lovely, just lovely but is his soul immune? no.......definaltey not and hes slow, he wont catch something that can teleport too far for him to reach and he wont do much after Pyron starts mushing him

ive not failed once, i cant fail again...and your just being a kid carrying on with that old gnawring of the bone

Estacado
Too bad that Dante has shown resistance to soul based stuff and Kain is simply too slow for him no to mention he can't be hurt in super sparda mode.....

Burning thought
Originally posted by Estacado
Too bad that Dante has shown resistance to soul based stuff and Kain is simply too slow for him no to mention he can't be hurt in super sparda mode.....

in gameplay supersparda mode....in super sparda mode that has a time limit due to his DMC energy, and his resistence was to a tiny orb in DMC 3 with unkown soul capability and only drained his soul, AND it gave him power...the reaver wont give him any power, and Kain wont either, nor will he drain, hell just punt Dantes soul out of him

not that he needs to do that with Dante, hell just get his good ol m8 Pyron to do it for him, or simply make Dante his finger puppet with TK, Dante does not resist TK naturally, and ive still seen no real proof for direct mind resistence just him resisting succubus charms

Estacado
He has infinite DT in this match.....
Kain hasn't done anything impressive with tk besides throwing around some humans hell he can't even lift the larger demons with it.......so you fail.
You have no proof that he can possess Pyron.thumb down
Also not even the bossess most powerful attacks can push or move Dante in Sparda form but Kain will?Fail.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Estacado
He has infinite DT in this match.....
Kain hasn't done anything impressive with tk besides throwing around some humans hell he can't even lift the larger demons with it.......so you fail.
You have no proof that he can possess Pyron.thumb down

so.....that doesnt change much, it just means he wont be tooled so badly as he would be without it then

how do i fail, when is Dante as large as those larger demons, hes not, hes basically human sized in all his forms, so its not a change at all

wtf? .......i dont need any really, pyron has no resistence at all, wtf are you talking about proof....Kain has the ability, pyron has no resistence...so the logical answer is Pyron falls to it...simple

sry to take a dump on you tho

Estacado
Also not even the bossess most powerful attacks can push or move Dante in Sparda form but Kain will?Fail.

Still you have no proof you simply fail.

Oh and Dante is still more faster then Kain who is far from being invulnerable he just get's cut into pieces or something like that.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Estacado
Also not even the bossess most powerful attacks can push or move Dante in Sparda form but Kain will?Fail.

Still you have no proof you simply fail.

Oh and Dante is still more faster then Kain who is far from being invulnerable he just get's cut into pieces or something like that.

yeh, its gameplay..so......do you have any canon sources of him being invulerable in the form, i certainly dont, however i have the cutscene from DMC1 when he uses but Mundus still ends up sending dark shards into the guy and sends him down...so much for invulerability

..errr......learn to debate

still more faster than kain, riiiggghht, okie show me how he can move a good 1000 metres or so please in less time than kain can move his hand, and no your right Kain is not invulerable in this fight, he has only 1 resurrection available

Estacado
Anyways I don't know why am I arguing a guy who thinks Kain could be a weakened Galactus.

Burning thought
your not really argueing, your better at posting smilies and rubbish, and Fantastic 4 beat a weakened Galactus, their nothing on kain.....but regardless how is any of that relevent, you lose the argument then sulk.....lawlz indeed

Rewmac
Originally posted by Burning thought
yeh, its gameplay..so......do you have any canon sources of him being invulerable in the form, i certainly dont, however i have the cutscene from DMC1 when he uses but Mundus still ends up sending dark shards into the guy and sends him down...so much for invulerability

..errr......learn to debate

still more faster than kain, riiiggghht, okie show me how he can move a good 1000 metres or so please in less time than kain can move his hand, and no your right Kain is not invulerable in this fight, he has only 1 resurrection available Dante is cutting bullets with his blade that is a reflex and speed feat. Also he grabs a motorcycle like it's nothing and laughing at headshots. He got blown up, stabbed and such things and he still alive. Currently Dante is powerful as hell. In the trickster style he has super speed,short range teleport, agility which Kain can only dream of. There is no proof that Kain can effect Dante is mind or heart or anything to possess him. so much for the soul. There is no proof he can effect Dante's soul. Kain resurrection? Dante just autmatically uses resurrection himself via gold orbs. So there is no evidence of your Kain doing these things. But there is proof in the game that physical attacks can indeed effect Kain. Note that : Dante defeated hell ruler kind of demons but yet telekinesis is going to stop??? He could just use Lucifer or Pandora's box from range and blow Kain into pieces.

About the Super Sparda form from DMC2. It can't even be moved even bosses can't do shit abou it, but it one shots bosses.

Rewmac
Here is my theory. Dante uses all his styles against Kain, while Kratos makes himself godsized and just keep attacking (these two could also kill him) Sephiroth starts his magic tricks while Kain is fighting these guys (each one alone could deal with Kain) Raziel goes behind Kain and just cut him into pieces while Dante and Hayabusha uses ice magic attacks on him and after that they just burn the ice on the pieces.

NOTE : I'm trying to find a way to your logic which I think fails more and more with every post you make.

Pyron alone could kill him. He could just one shot the planet.

Dante could kill Kain in million ways.

Raziel too, he knows Kain better than anyone he can do it alone.

Kratos? With all his power is the god of war. A god. I hope I don't have to tell you what that means.

I'm not sure about Sephiroth I played FF7 a long time ago.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Rewmac
Dante is cutting bullets with his blade that is a reflex and speed feat. Also he grabs a motorcycle like it's nothing and laughing at headshots. He got blown up, stabbed and such things and he still alive. Currently Dante is powerful as hell. In the trickster style he has super speed,short range teleport, agility which Kain can only dream of. There is no proof that Kain can effect Dante is mind or heart or anything to possess him. so much for the soul. There is no proof he can effect Dante's soul. Kain resurrection? Dante just autmatically uses resurrection himself via gold orbs. So there is no evidence of your Kain doing these things. But there is proof in the game that physical attacks can indeed effect Kain. Note that : Dante defeated hell ruler kind of demons but yet telekinesis is going to stop??? He could just use Lucifer or Pandora's box from range and blow Kain into pieces.

About the Super Sparda form from DMC2. It can't even be moved even bosses can't do shit abou it, but it one shots bosses.

agility that kain can only dream of? kain can also teleport and move fairly quickly, kain can become the infamous mist if he needs to move fast, whats as agile as the fvucking air itself. WTF? all this no proof BS is ridiculous, what do you mean no proof, kain has the ability, Dante does not have the resistence, so kain can effect him, otherwise theres no proof Dantes powers have ever effected an immortal scion of balance either, so Dante loses by default? foolish argument if its even given the title

Kain is given 1 resurrection in this thread instead of his invulerability, Resserection Orbs are gameplay purpose objects, not canon objects. Otherwise Kain can use Tarot device to just splatter Dante. No he would not blow kain into pieces, Kain will just use repel to shield himself, teleport to clear any gap Dante tries to make and use his superior Soul reaver blade to smash Dante into a crippled fool on the floor and thats if he amuses himself...and yes Kain can use TK, it will stop him, why? coz a load of titles like "hells ruler" doesnt give him TK resistence, another illogical and broken argument....also you say physical can effect kain but not when hes mist, also cutting kain is pointless, its not going to do anyone any good unless you decapacitate the guy, and none of these will clear the gap before Kain has a shield or has already Possesed Pyron, and then all this Sephiroth, Dante, Ryu BS is down the drain since they wouldnt survive a hit from pyron

yh fvucking in-game rubbish, no actual canon evidence whatsoever and does not add up with already shown DMC1 canon of Mundus harming him, Kain can respawn at checkpoints too, oh my gosh hez cannot be beatzors!!

Originally posted by Rewmac
Here is my theory. Dante uses all his styles against Kain, while Kratos makes himself godsized and just keep attacking (these two could also kill him) Sephiroth starts his magic tricks while Kain is fighting these guys (each one alone could deal with Kain) Raziel goes behind Kain and just cut him into pieces while Dante and Hayabusha uses ice magic attacks on him and after that they just burn the ice on the pieces.

NOTE : I'm trying to find a way to your logic which I think fails more and more with every post you make.

Pyron alone could kill him. He could just one shot the planet.

Dante could kill Kain in million ways.

Raziel too, he knows Kain better than anyone he can do it alone.

Kratos? With all his power is the god of war. A god. I hope I don't have to tell you what that means.

I'm not sure about Sephiroth I played FF7 a long time ago.

no you see your childish foolery and lack of knowledge will not help you at all

first none of that will happen, Kain before they do anything can move his hand, in which case a shield will come up and Pyron is possessed....then their done for, now ill answer these as if Kain was fighting them one at a time

1. nope, pyron would not hit kain before Kain simply moves his hand or thinks the spell and Pyron is Possessed

2. no Dante wouldnt do squat to kain, Kain could TK shackle him making him useless, Kain could slow time and time bolt Dante...Kain wins again, Kain could shield, then laugh at Dantes attempts, then use Blood shower and drain dante of all his blood, shriverling him up, and thats if he doesnt just slash him with a dimensional reaver teleport and blasts Dante into pieces

3. what BS is this? Kain would just impale Raziel and hell enter the blade, game set and match......Raziel is no match for kain at all

4. its a title used for the Christian Gods name, often referred to by fools as a title in names to make people belive they are higher than they really are, but heres what kratos is as a God: hes a fairly large fellow, bones cannot break and he cant burn which is the only GOW canon values of a God in that universe, however their souls can be taken, they can be killed by physical powers, and their minds can be entered and they are vulerable to time and destiny attacks, ala the sisters of fate.

the rest dont deserve menstion

Rewmac
Originally posted by Burning thought
agility that kain can only dream of? kain can also teleport and move fairly quickly, kain can become the infamous mist if he needs to move fast, whats as agile as the fvucking air itself. WTF? all this no proof BS is ridiculous, what do you mean no proof, kain has the ability, Dante does not have the resistence, so kain can effect him, otherwise theres no proof Dantes powers have ever effected an immortal scion of balance either, so Dante loses by default? foolish argument if its even given the title

Kain is given 1 resurrection in this thread instead of his invulerability, Resserection Orbs are gameplay purpose objects, not canon objects. Otherwise Kain can use Tarot device to just splatter Dante. No he would not blow kain into pieces, Kain will just use repel to shield himself, teleport to clear any gap Dante tries to make and use his superior Soul reaver blade to smash Dante into a crippled fool on the floor and thats if he amuses himself...and yes Kain can use TK, it will stop him, why? coz a load of titles like "hells ruler" doesnt give him TK resistence, another illogical and broken argument....also you say physical can effect kain but not when hes mist, also cutting kain is pointless, its not going to do anyone any good unless you decapacitate the guy, and none of these will clear the gap before Kain has a shield or has already Possesed Pyron, and then all this Sephiroth, Dante, Ryu BS is down the drain since they wouldnt survive a hit from pyron

yh fvucking in-game rubbish, no actual canon evidence whatsoever and does not add up with already shown DMC1 canon of Mundus harming him, Kain can respawn at checkpoints too, oh my gosh hez cannot be beatzors!! crylaugh

Burning thought
Originally posted by Rewmac
crylaugh

lmao, typical....typical....

bury your argument and begone troll

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