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Bruce Wayne must face his self with opposing Lantern rings!

To decide which is greater his willpower or fear power Bruce Wayne gets doubled into 2 identical equal and original people. Then is given a Green Lantern Willpower ring to one and a Yellow Lantern Fear power ring to the other. Both get unlimited prep and full access to their resources.

Who wins?

Blah his control over fear may match his will power stalemate.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Blah his control over fear may match his will power stalemate. Well he uses fear as a weapon unaided far better than any other but I'd also say his willpower is probably as great as any human's could ever be!

So I donno but I've always seen him as more in control of Fear than hisown willpower.
I mean his will might be as strong as it can possibly be but it's always seemed to me that to him its more something he has to do than something he really choices to do.

I really don't think he could quit. Even thou he's said he can.

Fear however he's always seemed in complete control of!

Originally posted by Entity
Bruce Wayne must face his self with opposing Lantern rings!

To decide which is greater his willpower or fear power Bruce Wayne gets doubled into 2 identical equal and original people. Then is given a Green Lantern Willpower ring to one and a Yellow Lantern Fear power ring to the other. Both get unlimited prep and full access to their resources.

Who wins?

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8343/batmancorpsuj8.th.jpg

Yes I know he was offered a Sinestro corps ring. Thats what gave me the idea.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8343/batmancorpsuj8.th.jpg

But that was when he was refusing to accept the ring and its power. So he wasn't even trying to embrace it. This is if he was trying to embrace it to his fullest extent. Could he beat himself with either ring?

Really I don't see why he wouldn't want to have a GL or YL Ring. Why would it mean he'd have to join the Sinestro corps? I mean its the ultimate utility belt!
But of course we all know then he wouldn't be the same for the readers now would he?

YL Batman. I'm sure Batman knows more about the finesse possible through fear than he does with will.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8343/batmancorpsuj8.th.jpg A while before that, Hal tried to get him to become a GL too, apperently he's qualified for that as well, and when he put it on, it exploded with power as well.

Originally posted by Juntai
A while before that, Hal tried to get him to become a GL too, apperently he's qualified for that as well, and when he put it on, it exploded with power as well. But which could he over power the other with first?

Forever has The Bat's willpower prevailed over the worst of Scarecrow and Ivy's Toxins

Hmmmm ....interesting. Willpower vs fear.

In terms of willpower, Bruce is one of the best when it comes to humans. There are a couple who surpass him (e.g. John and Hal), but Bruce is pretty much near the top of the human hierachy. When he puts his will to something (be it tracking down a criminal, becoming the best detective in the globe, or 'simply' healing from a broken back and getting back to crime fighting) his will is indomitable.

As for fear ....let's put it this way. Gotham's underworld fears the person far more than they feared Superman when he came over. Criminals fear the guy so much, that Bludhaven became a bigger cesspool than Gotham when many of the criminals fled there. His mind is so dark that psychic adepts always say that it is not a very nice place to be.

But the key thing is this .....his level of fear creation was sufficient enough to draw a Qwardian ring to him! Now, that is something! He was selected to represent an entire sector for the Sinestro Corps, which says something major about him (one of the inside jokes about Batman is that he is a good guy .....he is not. For one he is not sane, and second of all he is evil ....it is just that he is an elitist sort of evil that cannot stand 'inferior' evils around it. His heart is not pure, he is not a nice person, at best he is amoral, and the Qwardian ring confirmed just what sort of character he is. The thing about Batman is this ....for now he fights evil, but what happens when the evil he fights is vanquished? Will he retire? Nope ....he will simply turn on the other people).

BTW: That is something that was explored in Batman Crimson Mist, Red Rain and Blood Storm (Graphic novels every Batman fan should read). By portraying him as a master vampire that feeds on criminals, they show who Batman really is. In my opinion it was less of an elseworlds story as it was a look into Bruce's psyche.

He is a supremely evil man (in that case a vampire) that was fighting criminals (in that case killing criminals), until a point reached when he had killed all the criminals and was at risk of turning on the rest of Gotham (and humanity). It was at that point that he had to die, otherwise he would have become the consumate evil.

Batman is evil incarnate .....it is just that for now he has a lot of 'lesser evil' to feed off of. But the moment the last perp hits the dirt, the Joker laughs no more, Penguin goes the way of the Dodo, and Killer Croc and the other evil ilk pass on .....then the true colors of Bruce Wayne will be shown.

Not the most dangerous man in the world ....but rather the most evil man in the world.

Anyways, back to the question:

Batman has immense will power ....that is a given.

But note: He was chosen to be the Qwardian ring wielder of an entire sector. What does that say about the hombre?

Let's put it this way ....I wouldn't want to be the last person to switch off the lights at Arkham with Batman around.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8343/batmancorpsuj8.th.jpg

Gay.

Those Corps fellas need to leave Bruce alone 'cause he doesn't need their stupid rings.

I think Bruce would make a better Gl than Hal or John.

You know Spetz, I always considered Joker the dark reflection of Batman. Remember that last scene in the killing joke when Bats laughs at the asylum joke? That scared me. fear

Darkseid made a comment about Batman awhile ago. It was during the time when Supergirl was taken to Apokolips and Batman armed the hellspores to be used against DS. It was something to the effect of "the amazon and the kryptonian could not have done what you did. I would have seen through it and neither of them has the capacity to use my own hellspores against me. But you, you are a human. You kill your own kind for little or no reason. your race is the definition of insanity."

imo,
Batman's willpower > his fearpower, .

Originally posted by spetznaz
Hmmmm ....interesting. Willpower vs fear.

In terms of willpower, Bruce is one of the best when it comes to humans. There are a couple who surpass him (e.g. John and Hal), but Bruce is pretty much near the top of the human hierachy. When he puts his will to something (be it tracking down a criminal, becoming the best detective in the globe, or 'simply' healing from a broken back and getting back to crime fighting) his will is indomitable.

As for fear ....let's put it this way. Gotham's underworld fears the person far more than they feared Superman when he came over. Criminals fear the guy so much, that Bludhaven became a bigger cesspool than Gotham when many of the criminals fled there. His mind is so dark that psychic adepts always say that it is not a very nice place to be.

But the key thing is this .....his level of fear creation was sufficient enough to draw a Qwardian ring to him! Now, that is something! He was selected to represent an entire sector for the Sinestro Corps, which says something major about him (one of the inside jokes about Batman is that he is a good guy .....he is not. For one he is not sane, and second of all he is evil ....it is just that he is an elitist sort of evil that cannot stand 'inferior' evils around it. His heart is not pure, he is not a nice person, at best he is amoral, and the Qwardian ring confirmed just what sort of character he is. The thing about Batman is this ....for now he fights evil, but what happens when the evil he fights is vanquished? Will he retire? Nope ....he will simply turn on the other people).

BTW: That is something that was explored in Batman Crimson Mist, Red Rain and Blood Storm (Graphic novels every Batman fan should read). By portraying him as a master vampire that feeds on criminals, they show who Batman really is. In my opinion it was less of an elseworlds story as it was a look into Bruce's psyche.

He is a supremely evil man (in that case a vampire) that was fighting criminals (in that case killing criminals), until a point reached when he had killed all the criminals and was at risk of turning on the rest of Gotham (and humanity). It was at that point that he had to die, otherwise he would have become the consumate evil.

Batman is evil incarnate .....it is just that for now he has a lot of 'lesser evil' to feed off of. But the moment the last perp hits the dirt, the Joker laughs no more, Penguin goes the way of the Dodo, and Killer Croc and the other evil ilk pass on .....then the true colors of Bruce Wayne will be shown.

Not the most dangerous man in the world ....but rather the most evil man in the world.

Anyways, back to the question:

Batman has immense will power ....that is a given.

But note: He was chosen to be the Qwardian ring wielder of an entire sector. What does that say about the hombre?

Let's put it this way ....I wouldn't want to be the last person to switch off the lights at Arkham with Batman around.

Where's Batdude? He really needs to read this.

And I mean nothing ill towards Bruce, I love him in fact. Its just that I've always seen Bruce's doing what he does not nearly so much about being a hero as it is him just getting to take revenge on criminals for what they've done and keep trying to do.

However I don't think he's a villain or evil at heart by any means. I just think he's realises a very dark truth about the world we live in. Its turned him dark with it. He knows what Clark and many others in DC refuse to accept as truth.

One reason I love the Dark Knight Returns so much among many is that he finally accepts that he has to kill the Joker. Because it'll never stop till he does.

lol. snapping that particular nekck would improve his disposition. greatly

I also like Batman ....definitely among my top 5 characters. It is just that Bruce Wayne is not the hero people think he is .....he does heroic acts, but he is no hero.

Simple analogy: In India one of the most dangerous serpents is the Russell's viper, which kills more people than any other snake in the world (most herpetologists say it kills around 10,000 people a year). Now, the reason so many are killed is that the snakes go to where people live in search of vermin .....rats are drawn to people, and where rats are predators that feed on rats (e.g. the Krait, the Indian cobra, and the Russell's Viper) will be drawn.

The good thing is that the viper really kills MANY rats, and takes care of a very serious rodent problem that unattended would lead to disease and grain destruction.

Problem is that around 10,000 humans have to pay for that 'service' with their lives.

Now, how does this analogy work: put it this way .....Superman is a cat, while Batman is a Russells viper.

Both kill rats and mice, and kill a lot.

But one will also kill people if given the chance.

Think of it: the cat and the snake both do 'heroic' acts of killing rodents, but one of them will kill you just as easily. It doesn't want to kill you, but it still can. The other, the cat, will either give you a bad look, scratch you, or maybe come sit on your lap and lick your hand.

Now, I know Batman doesn't kill, but I wonder what would happen once the rats (read: criminals) are finished .......hewould turn on the rest of Gotham. He is too driven to simply retire and spend the rest of his days watching sunsets with Robin.

He would fill the void left with himself.

In my opinion, Batman is heroic. But not a hero. And there is a difference between being heroic (and even doing astounding feats of heroism), and being a hero. One is through deeds, the other is through personality. You can do very heroic deeds, but inside you are no hero.

It is the same with being moral, being immoral, and being amoral.

Moral: Does good because she is good
Immoral: Does bad because she is bad
Amoral: If she does good he is doing it because she WANTS to, if he does evil she is doing it because she wants to. Has no moral code .....she can be a saint for 100 years, and on the 101st she starts beating up toddlers.

Originally posted by spetznaz
Hmmmm ....interesting. Willpower vs fear.

In terms of willpower, Bruce is one of the best when it comes to humans. There are a couple who surpass him (e.g. John and Hal), but Bruce is pretty much near the top of the human hierachy. When he puts his will to something (be it tracking down a criminal, becoming the best detective in the globe, or 'simply' healing from a broken back and getting back to crime fighting) his will is indomitable.

As for fear ....let's put it this way. Gotham's underworld fears the person far more than they feared Superman when he came over. Criminals fear the guy so much, that Bludhaven became a bigger cesspool than Gotham when many of the criminals fled there. His mind is so dark that psychic adepts always say that it is not a very nice place to be.

But the key thing is this .....his level of fear creation was sufficient enough to draw a Qwardian ring to him! Now, that is something! He was selected to represent an entire sector for the Sinestro Corps, which says something major about him (one of the inside jokes about Batman is that he is a good guy .....he is not. For one he is not sane, and second of all he is evil ....it is just that he is an elitist sort of evil that cannot stand 'inferior' evils around it. His heart is not pure, he is not a nice person, at best he is amoral, and the Qwardian ring confirmed just what sort of character he is. The thing about Batman is this ....for now he fights evil, but what happens when the evil he fights is vanquished? Will he retire? Nope ....he will simply turn on the other people).

BTW: That is something that was explored in Batman Crimson Mist, Red Rain and Blood Storm (Graphic novels every Batman fan should read). By portraying him as a master vampire that feeds on criminals, they show who Batman really is. In my opinion it was less of an elseworlds story as it was a look into Bruce's psyche.

He is a supremely evil man (in that case a vampire) that was fighting criminals (in that case killing criminals), until a point reached when he had killed all the criminals and was at risk of turning on the rest of Gotham (and humanity). It was at that point that he had to die, otherwise he would have become the consumate evil.

Batman is evil incarnate .....it is just that for now he has a lot of 'lesser evil' to feed off of. But the moment the last perp hits the dirt, the Joker laughs no more, Penguin goes the way of the Dodo, and Killer Croc and the other evil ilk pass on .....then the true colors of Bruce Wayne will be shown.

Not the most dangerous man in the world ....but rather the most evil man in the world.

Anyways, back to the question:

Batman has immense will power ....that is a given.

But note: He was chosen to be the Qwardian ring wielder of an entire sector. What does that say about the hombre?

Let's put it this way ....I wouldn't want to be the last person to switch off the lights at Arkham with Batman around.

That is a really cool analysis of Batman's character.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8343/batmancorpsuj8.th.jpg

"willpower overriding fear"

Willpower wins.

I like the assessment Spets, but do not agree with it.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
"willpower overriding fear"

Willpower wins.

He was consciously rejecting it though.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
"willpower overriding fear"

Willpower wins.

I like the assessment Spets, but do not agree with it.

You have a very good point Blair, and that scan carries a lot of weight.

The point I was having, though, is that in the past Batman has discounted various powerful devices and powers .....he always rejects them.

For instance, he has rejected magic. He has rejected the Lazarus pit. And more recently (well, relatively), he refused to let a MotherBox heal him after taking a pounding on Apokolips. Barda asked him to let the MotherBox heal him, but he flatly refused.

Basically, Batman doesn't seem to go for enhancers (unless it is for certain pressing issues). Maybe that is why he refused to let the ring .....note, he also did not want the whole Green Lantern thing (again, only used for tactical reasons).

Also note that if he wanted to Batman could give himself meta abilities ....think that he had replicas of the entire JLA available, complete with powers. If Batman wanted to he could easily give himself meta abilities ....or at least something closer to a minitarized Tony Stark rather than a simple utility belt.

He doesn't.

It could be more to do with his persona .....and that is why he didn't want the ring.

The fear may be greater, but the willpower is strong enough that if he doesn't want it he doesn't want it.

Like glass .....at the same time very hard, but very brittle. At the same time. Hard enough that it will ALWAYS overcome the powers of a small bird trying to get inside a house, but will also ALWAYS break if dropped onto a hard floor.

Question ...if Batman is glass, is the fear the 'hardness' component or the 'brittle' aspect? And the willpower? Because both are there, and in high amounts, but one supercedes the other.

I say that for a human to be selected as a Qwardian ring wielder for a sector, and there are so many other frightful humans and creatures and metas on Earth (and not just on Earth, but in that ENTIRE sector)....but it chooses, first, a 'normal' human ....then something must be WRONG with his heart.

Although it is just my opinion ......

Originally posted by spetznaz
You have a very good point Blair, and that scan carries a lot of weight.

The point I was having, though, is that in the past Batman has discounted various powerful devices and powers .....he always rejects them.

For instance, he has rejected magic. He has rejected the Lazarus pit. And more recently (well, relatively), he refused to let a MotherBox heal him after taking a pounding on Apokolips. Barda asked him to let the MotherBox heal him, but he flatly refused.

Basically, Batman doesn't seem to go for enhancers (unless it is for certain pressing issues). Maybe that is why he refused to let the ring .....note, he also did not want the whole Green Lantern thing (again, only used for tactical reasons).

Also note that if he wanted to Batman could give himself meta abilities ....think that he had replicas of the entire JLA available, complete with powers. If Batman wanted to he could easily give himself meta abilities ....or at least something closer to a minitarized Tony Stark rather than a simple utility belt.

He doesn't.

It could be more to do with his persona .....and that is why he didn't want the ring.

The fear may be greater, but the willpower is strong enough that if he doesn't want it he doesn't want it.

Like glass .....at the same time very hard, but very brittle. At the same time. Hard enough that it will ALWAYS overcome the powers of a small bird trying to get inside a house, but will also ALWAYS break if dropped onto a hard floor.

Question ...if Batman is glass, is the fear the 'hardness' component or the 'brittle' aspect? And the willpower? Because both are there, and in high amounts, but one supercedes the other.

I say that for a human to be selected as a Qwardian ring wielder for a sector, and there are so many other frightful humans and creatures and metas on Earth (and not just on Earth, but in that ENTIRE sector)....but it chooses, first, a 'normal' human ....then something must be WRONG with his heart.

Although it is just my opinion ......

I take it more as he uses fear as a tool, not anything more than that. He instills great fear, and that has been his MO for a while now, but it is just a tool. It is what he deducted would best help him in taking care of the criminal element in Gotham. Criminals get stupid when they are afraid.

In fact while most people think that anger is what drives him and fear his what he uses, in a JLA/JSA special it was told how Bruce overcame (anger?) with Hope. Because hope is really what truly motivates him, hope that no one will ever fall victim to any criminal, or feel what he felt as an 8 year old child.