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Who wins?

Hmm, tough choice.

Bump

Ronan wins...barker 10/10

Originally posted by Capt Spaulding
Ronan wins...barker 10/10 Come on, now...I'd give it to Apoc. Maybe 7/10...I'm not quite sold on the power of the Universal Weapon.

poccy

Originally posted by Lord S
Come on, now...I'd give it to Apoc. Maybe 7/10...I'm not quite sold on the power of the Universal Weapon.

Whats it take to convince you?


He's beaten a merged Genis

He's beaten a herald level character in Ravenous

He's beaten Blackbolt (who by the way destroyed Apoc granted that was a House of M issue)

He's taken down the F4 in a dominating fasion

Ronan wins 7-8/10

Originally posted by nimbus006
Whats it take to convince you?


He's beaten a merged Genis

He's beaten a herald level character in Ravenous

He's beaten Blackbolt (who by the way destroyed Apoc granted that was a House of M issue)

He's taken down the F4 in a dominating fasion

Ronan wins 7-8/10 Nicely down. I concur that Ronan wins this. He deals with more powerful characters than Apoc.

Originally posted by nimbus006
Whats it take to convince you?


He's beaten a merged Genis

He's beaten a herald level character in Ravenous

He's beaten Blackbolt (who by the way destroyed Apoc granted that was a House of M issue)

He's taken down the F4 in a dominating fasion

Ronan wins 7-8/10

Hmm, good point.

Er...

Apocalypse wins due to evasion and versatility.

Originally posted by Decimus
Apocalypse wins due to evasion and versatility.

Evasion? What teleportation? Yeah, Ronan can do that as well.

Versatility?

Ronan can:

- Transmute/manipulate matter which by itself is an extremely versatile power set.
- Fire energy blast way more powerful then anything Apoc. can produce.
- Fire EMP beams from his eyes
- Cryo-genetically freeze people in stasis fields
- Create displacement fields, force fields, vacuums, and barriers of absolute zero (which is kind of the same thing as cryo-freeze)
- Teleport or BFR opponents
- Manipulate/accelerate time albeit on a low scale
- Create a mannequin parasite which takes over opponents on molecular level, and submit to his command.
- Enhance his armor to adapt and analyze opponents power sets
- Has Superhuman Strength, Reflexes, Durability, Stamina, and is a master battle strategist.
- Search targets using X-ray Vision

Theres more too.

Originally posted by nimbus006
Evasion? What teleportation? Yeah, Ronan can do that as well.

Versatility?

Ronan can:

- Transmute/manipulate matter which by itself is an extremely versatile power set.
- Fire energy blast way more powerful then anything Apoc. can produce.
- Fire EMP beams from his eyes
- Cryo-genetically freeze people in stasis fields
- Create displacement fields, force fields, vacuums, and barriers of absolute zero (which is kind of the same thing as cryo-freeze)
- Teleport or BFR opponents
- Manipulate/accelerate time albeit on a low scale
- Create a mannequin parasite which takes over opponents on molecular level, and submit to his command.
- Enhance his armor to adapt and analyze opponents power sets
- Has Superhuman Strength, Reflexes, Durability, Stamina, and is a master battle strategist.
- Search targets using X-ray Vision

Theres more too.

You're dealing in a lot of speculation here. Teleportation or BFR can be countered by Apocalypse, who teleports a lot faster. Especially where you claim that Ronan can fire energy blasts more powerful than anything Apocalypse can produce.

Attempting to use ABC logic is even worse, especially when Ronan had prep time against Black Bolt. Ronan is horrible when it comes to close combat and it's not like he ever dominated Ravenous. He lost once, then was able to get in a hit in their final battle.

Originally posted by nimbus006
Evasion? What teleportation? Yeah, Ronan can do that as well.

Versatility?

Ronan can:

- Transmute/manipulate matter which by itself is an extremely versatile power set.
- Fire energy blast way more powerful then anything Apoc. can produce.
- Fire EMP beams from his eyes
- Cryo-genetically freeze people in stasis fields
- Create displacement fields, force fields, vacuums, and barriers of absolute zero (which is kind of the same thing as cryo-freeze)
- Teleport or BFR opponents
- Manipulate/accelerate time albeit on a low scale
- Create a mannequin parasite which takes over opponents on molecular level, and submit to his command.
- Enhance his armor to adapt and analyze opponents power sets
- Has Superhuman Strength, Reflexes, Durability, Stamina, and is a master battle strategist.
- Search targets using X-ray Vision

Theres more too. Well it's nice to see you know how to read a bio...but in the end he's just a guy in a suit who relies heavily on a weapon. Get the weapon out of his hand, and let's see what kind of damage he can do.

So let's call it 50-50...

Originally posted by Lord S
Well it's nice to see you know how to read a bio...but in the end he's just a guy in a suit who relies heavily on a weapon. Get the weapon out of his hand, and let's see what kind of damage he can do.

So let's call it 50-50...

Read a bio?

Those feats are all coming from scans.

http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,108627.0.html

Originally posted by llagrok
You're dealing in a lot of speculation here. Teleportation or BFR can be countered by Apocalypse, who teleports a lot faster. Especially where you claim that Ronan can fire energy blasts more powerful than anything Apocalypse can produce.

Attempting to use ABC logic is even worse, especially when Ronan had prep time against Black Bolt. Ronan is horrible when it comes to close combat and it's not like he ever dominated Ravenous. He lost once, then was able to get in a hit in their final battle.

Let me clarify a few things for you:

1) All of those feats i listed were to counter Decimus's claim that Apoc wins via versatility. Ronan is just as verastile as Apoc if not more. I wasn't trying to state that Apoc can't counter any of these feats, just simply making it clear that Ronan is versatile too.

2) When i say "more powerful tha nanything Apoc can produce" Im speaking strictly in terms of energy blasts. Apoc is not known for producing powerful energy blasts on par with cosmic level beings.

3) Yes, you are correct, using ABC logic is an incorrect formula for proving certain characters can defeat others. However, i just wanted to prove a point that Ronan has defeated a character that Apoc was dominated by. Either way is scratch it, and lets move on.

4) Ronan is horrible at close quarter combat?!!? Come on Llag, thats a horrible statement. He's fought several characters (Surfer, Genis, Ravenous, Thing) in close quarter combat and done very well. You make it sound like he got in a lucky shot against Ravenous.

Originally posted by Lord S
but in the end he's just a guy in a suit who relies heavily on a weapon. Get the weapon out of his hand, and let's see what kind of damage he can do.


Here you go:

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/5069/ronannoweapon1dt3.jpg

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/649/ronannoweapon2nq2.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/6245/ronannoweapon3ca2.jpg

Originally posted by nimbus006
Let me clarify a few things for you:

1) All of those feats i listed were to counter Decimus's claim that Apoc wins via versatility. Ronan is just as verastile as Apoc if not more. I wasn't trying to state that Apoc can't counter any of these feats, just simply making it clear that Ronan is versatile too.

2) When i say "more powerful tha nanything Apoc can produce" Im speaking strictly in terms of energy blasts. Apoc is not known for producing powerful energy blasts on par with cosmic level beings.

3) Yes, you are correct, using ABC logic is an incorrect formula for proving certain characters can defeat others. However, i just wanted to prove a point that Ronan has defeated a character that Apoc was dominated by. Either way is scratch it, and lets move on.

4) Ronan is horrible at close quarter combat?!!? Come on Llag, thats a horrible statement. He's fought several characters (Surfer, Genis, Ravenous, Thing) in close quarter combat and done very well. You make it sound like he got in a lucky shot against Ravenous.

1) Ronan has matter manipulation, which is a very versatile power. He doesn't use this nearly as well as Apocalypse uses his "self" manipulation though. Ronan is not particularly versatile for someone who has that power.

2) But neither is Ronan, his energy blasts aren't particularly powerful. He's always fighting lowly metas.

3) Who was Apocalypse dominated by? I know that the High Evolutionary would dominate Ronan with little trouble. (Mugni, don't you dare)

4) A lot of people have done well against the Surfer, few beat him. Apocalypse would have little trouble against the Thing in close combat and Ravenous was beating Ronan ALL over the place. The ONLY time Ronan harmed him was in their final fight when he smashed his hammer across Ravenous' face. That's not a move that would work very well on Apocalypse.

Originally posted by llagrok


The ONLY time Ronan harmed him was in their final fight when he smashed his hammer across Ravenous' face. That's not a move that would work very well on Apocalypse.

Oh so the only time he hurt Ravenous was when he CRUSHED his face so bad he knocked him out. Okay so what he still laid his ass out, and in a most devasting fashion i might add. Also, Ravenous wasn't doing anything to Ronan either during the last scrap. They were both going at it, talking crap then Ronan knocked him out.

Originally posted by nimbus006
Oh so the only time he hurt Ravenous was when he CRUSHED his face so bad he knocked him out. Okay so what he still laid his ass out, and in a most devasting fashion i might add. Also, Ravenous wasn't doing anything to Ronan either during the last scrap. They were both going at it, talking crap then Ronan knocked him out.

It was a definite one-shot, yeah. Ravenous even has half a metal face now, or bug face or what you want to call it.

I still don't think that Ravenous would ever be able to replicate that feat though, not against Apocalypse.

Originally posted by llagrok

Ronan is horrible when it comes to close combat

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/4655/closequarterlg1.jpg


Originally posted by llagrok

2) But neither is Ronan, his energy blasts aren't particularly powerful. He's always fighting lowly metas.


http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2692/ronanvssurfercd8.jpg

That's pretty powerful

Maybe, maybe not... now stop arguing with me (cuz we both know Ronan beats Apoc for the majority , and go post your team on the thread I made for micro-heroes... Im curious to see what it looks like.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t476936.html

Dude, go to the market and buy some context

His showing against genis from way back isn't really THAT impressive.

Originally posted by llagrok
Dude, go to the market and buy some context

His showing against genis from way back isn't really THAT impressive.

Give me a break, I dont have much to work with here. The guy shows up like 1 a year in a comic.

Originally posted by llagrok
It was a definite one-shot, yeah. Ravenous even has half a metal face now, or bug face or what you want to call it.

I still don't think that Ravenous would ever be able to replicate that feat though, not against Apocalypse. Well here's where I would teeter a little...Jean Grey was able to rip Apoc's mask off exposing his human face back in the 'Twelve' saga. So Ronan shouldn't have a problem with that.

But in terms of durability when he's at his best, Apoc's armour is extremely tough.

And nimbus...

There's no way to compare Ronan's and Apoc's respective showings against Black Bolt because:

A) Ronan wasn't hit with a direct blast of Black Bolt's vocal energy.
B) Black Bolt is partly Kree...and Ronan would know in advance how to defeat him before BB would even open his mouth. The scan even talks about Kree's inherent and automatic superiority over the Inhumans.

"Can a mere cub howl against the natural leader of its pack"

The Inhumans were modified by the Kree, so it's only natural that the Kree would be able to nullify their powers, with ease. As proven in the scan.

I'd like to see how Ronan would fare against the High Evolutionary...then we can make an appropriate comparison between him and Apoc.

As for the rest of Ronan's feats, they're all with the Universal Weapon...and as I said before, get that away from him, and we'll see how he does.

He's not like Thor...who is still very strong, even without Mjolnir. He relies on his weapon....and without it, he's in deep trouble.

*Edited repeatedly for annoying grammatical errors...

Originally posted by Lord S

And nimbus...

There's no way to compare Ronan's and Apoc's respective showings against Black Bolt because:


Fine, Fine... I know the House of M showing was garbage anyway

Originally posted by Lord S


As for the rest of Ronan's feats, they're all with the Universal Weapon...and as I said before, get that away from him, and we'll see how he does.


I just posted a scan of him fighting without it... haven't you heard the quote "An Accuser does not simply, possess a weapon, he is a weapon"

Originally posted by Lord S

*Edited repeatedly for annoying grammatical errors...

lol

What would happen if Apocalypse grew to lets say 300 feet and used his crazy hammers and energy attacks to fight Ronan while teleporting.

Originally posted by Lord S
Well here's where I would teeter a little...Jean Grey was able to rip Apoc's mask off exposing his human face back in the 'Twelve' saga. So Ronan shouldn't have a problem with that.

But in terms of durability when he's at his best, Apoc's armour is extremely tough.

Since when has Apoc used an armor, besides during the Twelve?


Also, Jean was only able to rip open Apoc because... well, you have to see the panel...

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
Since when has Apoc used an armor, besides during the Twelve?


Also, Jean was only able to rip open Apoc because... well, you have to see the panel... Uh...you don't actually think that's his real body, do you?

His real body is humanoid...he's always been encased in Celestial armour.

The Twelve saga had so many things wrong with it.......nono

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
The Twelve saga had so many things wrong with it.......nono Start.

Originally posted by Decimus
What would happen if Apocalypse grew to lets say 300 feet and used his crazy hammers and energy attacks to fight Ronan while teleporting.

Hmm...

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
Also, Jean was only able to rip open Apoc because... well, you have to see the panel...
Yeah...

That shouldn't count as a con against Apoc due to the circumstances of what happened there.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Start.
Yes. I'd like to hear as well.

Originally posted by nimbus006
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/4655/closequarterlg1.jpg




http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2692/ronanvssurfercd8.jpg

That's pretty powerful Nice scans....shuts up llagrok.

this is pretty even imo,id give the edge to apoc 6/10

Originally posted by Lord S
Uh...you don't actually think that's his real body, do you?

His real body is humanoid...he's always been encased in Celestial armour.

Humanoid?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/apocstrongest.png

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/3672/cabledeadpool27p05hs7.jpg

Like handbooks have said, the armour is part of his body. Also, do you really think you can alter your atoms... and still be just a guy in a suit?

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Start.

The story is all a bit pointless and painfully dull.

Bump

Bump

apoc

Split

bump

Nur

Ronan wins.

I'd take Apocalypse in this one. Once Ronan is disarmed he's severely outgunned, and I'm not really convinced he holds the edge even armed. KMC's Anti-Apocalypse sentiments be damned.

isnt ronan's hammer tech based?

Bump