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Hello i was wondering if i could use some basic logic to determine something that i'll explain later....

for now.. who wins? Apocalypse "the restrainer" or the great Hulk?

Apoc grows to 100 meters tall and steps on Hulk, then removes a flattened Hulk from the bottom of his foot, and flicks him off Earth.

stalemate/Hulk.

Apocalypse isn't going to overpower Hulk, but his versatility and range attacks make it unlikely that Hulk will get to smash him either.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
Apoc grows to 100 meters tall and steps on Hulk, then removes a flattened Hulk from the bottom of his foot, and flicks him off Earth.

Worst. Plan. Ever.



Apocalypse can win considering his powers but I doubt he would win every time simply due to CIS and the way he's been written.

yes, i always loved this picture
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1385/hulk2456pic1qt2.th.gif

however.. that would mean that apocalypse is stronger than hulk?

Originally posted by alfmartinez
yes, i always loved this picture
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1385/hulk2456pic1qt2.th.gif

however.. that would mean that apocalypse is stronger than hulk?

No, it means he's smart enough to use his powers to get leverage.

Realistically, there's very few people who should be able to beat Apoc under mid herald level.

Going by shows, the criminal CIS the writers seems to afflict him with (and the fact that nobody since Louise Simonson has written his powers anywhere near what they should be......) means that he loses to people whom he should chump easily.

Hulk wins. durhulk

Originally posted by Badabing
Hulk wins. durhulk

i didnt see the smiley at first

Hulk 8/10

Apoc, too versatile and powerful.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Apoc, too versatile and powerful.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Apoc, too versatile and powerful.

I'll go with this one.

Apocalypse is a more powerful being and should win.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Going by shows, the criminal CIS the writers seems to afflict him with (and the fact that nobody since Louise Simonson has written his powers anywhere near what they should be......)

Apocalypse's power set changes from writer to writer. He's either a shape-shifter or just a brick with energy blasts.

Back in X-Factor with Simonson, Apocalypse's powers were basically shape-shifting and teleportation, though, he did display some energy projection against High E and Loki.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
means that he loses to people whom he should chump easily.

Loses to who? jr_watchmen

Hulk 9/10.
WWH 10/10.

Originally posted by FearOfBlood
Hulk 9/10.
WWH 10/10.

Very stupid.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Realistically, there's very few people who should be able to beat Apoc under mid herald level.


Mid Herald Level ?


World Breaker (Sky Father level according to Pak) > WWH > Sentry all out > Sentry >>>>>>>>>>>>> Terrax.

Originally posted by FearOfBlood
Mid Herald Level ?


World Breaker (Sky Father level according to Pak) > WWH > Sentry all out > Sentry >>>>>>>>>>>>> Terrax.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/WWH_AS_1_DCP_0002.jpg

Writer: Greg Pak 31dance

Apocalypse wins.

Regular Hulk - Apoc takes 8/10
WWH - WWH takes 10/10.

if according to you.. Apocalypse might take the Hulk.. and Hulk is nearly as strong as Doomsday, can Apocalypse win a fight against Kal-el? :P

Originally posted by alfmartinez
if according to you.. Apocalypse might take the Hulk.. and Hulk is nearly as strong as Doomsday, can Apocalypse win a fight against Kal-el? :P



DoS Kal El?

Possibly.

Apocalypse

Hulk vs Apocalypse huh?! well when is comes to strengh, in like wrestling id give it to the Hulk, but Apocalypse is smarter and has more powers, Hulk jus has streght really in this one!!
Apocalypse

All version but the last would probably loose to Apoc.

But I give the adventage to Current Hulk.

Originally posted by QBoy45
Hulk vs Apocalypse huh?! well when is comes to strengh, in like wrestling id give it to the Hulk, but Apocalypse is smarter and has more powers, Hulk jus has streght really in this one!!
Apocalypse In a wrestling match Apoc would dominate, he has shown he knows how to actually use leverage, he isn't just some big dumb muscleman like Hulk.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
In a wrestling match Apoc would dominate, he has shown he knows how to actually use leverage, he isn't just some big dumb muscleman like Hulk.

WWH isn't dumb...

Originally posted by Mindset
WWH isn't dumb... Did the letters WWH appear in my post?

WWH = Hulk, so yes.

When Hulk came to Earth people weren't saying, oh shit, it's World War Hulk.

Originally posted by Mindset
WWH = Hulk, so yes.

When Hulk came to Earth people weren't saying, oh shit, it's World War Hulk. When people say "Hulk" on forums, they are often referring to pre-WWH Hulk, obviously, as it is less typing that saying Pre-WWH Hulk.

And the letters WWH were not in my post.

Hulk is WWH though. And being that fights use current version unless otherwise specified when you were talking about Hulk you were talking about WWH.

Originally posted by Mindset
Hulk is WWH though. And being that fights use current version unless otherwise specified when you were talking about Hulk you were talking about WWH.

Regardless, WWH is still nowhere as intelligent as Apoc.

And my post...it was a joke, they aren't in a Wrestling match.

Hulk prior to WWH as in Planet Hulk arc was very intelligent and careful.
before Planet Hulk he was already intelligent enough to strategies and would switch back and forth from his Banner persona without powering down (smacked Abomination whilst in Banner form).

anyway Hulk wins. Apocalypse can't hurt him nor keep up with him in a long slog.

apoc

bump

not sure apocalypse can even lose a physical confrontation.

Nur makes Hulk his b%*ch, again.

WWH can take Apoc if its purely physical.

Problem for Hulk is that Apocalypse is one of those who, if needed, could be written to give Hulk also a match in physical confrontation.

But generally,I think Apocalypse should take him, also WWH..

Only time when Juggernaut was truly helpless against Hulk was against War Hulk. He was too much for Cain.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Only time when Juggernaut was truly helpless against Hulk was against War Hulk. He was too much for Cain.
my point....we all know WWH aint WARhulk, and apoc was Warhulk boss so current hulk(savage) aint doing jack..

^ Apoc also admitted that WarHulk was the pinnacle of physical power, which implies beyond Apoc in strength.

WWH wins, Savage hulk loses.

Originally posted by Enyalus
^ Apoc also admitted that WarHulk was the pinnacle of physical power, which implies beyond Apoc in strength.

Actually, if I remember correctly, Apoc said WarHulk was second to only himself (Apoc).

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Merged/Professor Hulk form he downed a fully powered Juggernaut. and he got up..your point??? NO HULK can hurt Juggernaut(except WAR) and WWH is no WAR hulk...so..

...and I also think Apocalypse would beat WW Hulk. Far too versatile and elusive for Hulk to contend with, and can counter most of Hulk's one dimensional offense.

Plus there's always the option of growing really big and simply punting the Hulk into space.

Funny thing, i don't recall any instances of Poccy growing really big in comics...

Originally posted by nicamarvin
and he got up..your point??? NO HULK can hurt Juggernaut(except WAR) and WWH is no WAR hulk...so..

My point should be obvious-when Hulk was in his weaker Merged/Professor form, he floored a fully powered classic Juggernaut, with 2 punches. It wouldn't be "dumb" of him to presume that, in his more powerful WWH form, he could give the same character a good fight.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
My point should be obvious-when Hulk was in his weaker Merged/Professor form, he floored a fully powered classic Juggernaut, with 2 punches. It wouldn't be "dumb" of him to presume that, in his more powerful WWH form, he could give the same character a good fight.

thats what we all thought...right?...after all the guys the beat down in WWH mode we were all thinking:how bad would wwh beat juggernaut?? the fact is No matter how strong hulk gets, he could never beat the piss out of juggy, shure from time to time he gets a good punch, but he aint making juggernaut bleed...

Originally posted by illadelph12
Actually, if I remember correctly, Apoc said WarHulk was second to only himself (Apoc).

When I get home I'll check myself. I don't trust anyone from the Bay. uhuh

Originally posted by illadelph12
Actually, if I remember correctly, Apoc said WarHulk was second to only himself (Apoc).

He acutally said that that power of the Celestials supersedes all but his own. Well, that is pride of Apocalypse talking.

Originally posted by Survivor19
Funny thing, i don't recall any instances of Poccy growing really big in comics...

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/1831/apocmorphhd3.png

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/apocmindconrol.png

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/apocgrow.png

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/apocgrowheight.png

^ respect teh bigness

Apoc should win.

cause it's the hulk right?

Part of it, yes. A properly written Apoc should destroy the Hulk.

i meant as in you don't like hulk and any thread with him in it is an opportunity for you to stick it to him.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i meant as in you don't like hulk and any thread with him in it is an opportunity for you to stick it to him.

I just dont like when people put him up against people that are out of his league. Hulk is a one sided brick, brick vs brick is fine but brick vs some whos versatile is not good.

I dont give a crap what his fanboys or crap writing say.

Apocalypse.

En Sabah Nur.

Hulk

Apoc.

apoc z lips ftw

Meh. I don't think Apoc could come CLOSE to taking Hulk out.

He should win, though. Apoc is ANCIENT as all Hell. Like, several thousands of years. With that, and the power to at least MATCH the Hulk in physical prowess, Apoc should win almost everytime, provided he makes it a "turn him into a horsemen" fight, and not a straight up brawl.

Straight up brawl, Hulk wins hands down. Fight with a purpose, Apoc hands down. Although, Apoc wouln't fight without a purpose. And if Apoc fights at ALL, it's with a purpose and very careful and proper prep. If Apoc wants someone as his horsemen, Apoc wins. If Apoc is drunk and looking for a fight, Hulk stomps him.

I get the feeling this is an intelligent scenario. Apoc wins 10/10. But by intelligence, not by physical ability. Apoc's proven before unable to subdue the Hulk physically. But with big words and vehement debate, with a touch of power-showing, Apoc could get Hulk's respect, loyalty, and even submission to a degree.

Bottom line, if Apoc's careful, Apoc wins.

all you have to say is apocalypse pretty much has the same strength power as hulk has, whatever amp hulk gets, apocalypse should be able to modify his body and density to at least match it.

The prob is, even THANOS has mentioned that he's weary(or whatever) of Hulk's potential. Apoc cannot match unlimited potential.

All I'm saying is, Apoc is WAY TOO wise to lose to ANY Hulk(except MAYBE WWHulk) in a pre-planned match. If Apoc has even a day of prep time, he takes it hands down. Not only is he Hulk-level power, he's several thousands of years old. With that kind of power, by sheer age and wisdom, he should win. Apoc is one of those guys. He could wrangle Thor if he had prep-time.

Because I'm asking for a headache, MC, who do you think can beat WWH physically? Or, hell...Savage Hulk.

Hulk has unlimited potential?


Yeah right....


He hasnt shown anything like that. He hasnt beaten Current Thor, Current SS or anyone on that level.

With prep Poccy created Harbringer.
Harbringer was wiping the floor with Avengers (Thor included) and Cable, until Nur initiated his self-destruction...

Originally posted by Enyalus
Because I'm asking for a headache, MC, who do you think can beat WWH physically? Or, hell...Savage Hulk.

Savage Hulk? With no majority in mind either way.

Superman
Thor
Sentry
Gladiator
Apocalypse
Silver Surfer
Any cosmic being
Martian Manhunter
Juggernaut
Death Of Superman Doomsday
Darkseid(maybe)
Batman with the GL ring

And some others I can't think of right now. All I ever argue is that no one wins "hands down" against Hulk, and certainly not in the simple ways that some of the dumber people on this forum say.

Like saying "Flash blitzes FTW". That's f**king stupid. Flash's punches wouldn't hurt Hulk and they'd break Flash's hands. I know Flash can punch hard because of the speed, but he's still physically human. I'm not gonna get into it, but I hate that shit. That's not even a debate. It makes it sound like, well Hell, why doesn't Flash just take over the world if he can take on Superman-level guys so easily? Or saying "Superman lobotomizes Hulk FTW". No, he doesn't. Hulk's taken heat vision before, and he would heal.

If someone makes a good point like "Superman is adept at utilizing his powers in a strategic and effective manner, in such a way that he could overwhelm Hulk with said powers that Hulk wouldn't be able to get a bead on him, and, in a moment where Hulk's confusion lowers his defense, Superman clocks Hulk for a KO".

See that? THAT'S a debate, a good point, a scenario, and a realistic outcome. Much better than "GL throws Hulk into space FTW". I mean really? Because Hulk's been known to be able to physically handle energy, and Hulk has usually been powerful enough to break through any force field. GL would have to be a tad more creative than that.


WWHulk? Physically, as in strength, durability, etc? That's the problem. WWHulk is a special version of Hulk. That's like saying who CAN beat Odinforce Thor as opposed to Classic Thor who's been beaten by a number of people. Special versions are usually hard to beat. Superman One Million, Batman with GL ring, Thanos with Infinity Gauntlet, etc. WWHulk beat EVERYONE he fought, either by intelligence or hand to hand. In World Breaker mode, even moving his foot was a global threat. World Breaker wasn't a special Hulk, it was still WWHulk. An ANGRY WWHulk. If WWHulk didn't hold back, he would've destroyed Earth just by walking around.

So the rules haven't changed. A good debate will win. But with WWHulk, you just have to up the ante with who he's fighting. Just keep in mind that "world breaker" was simply WWHulk when he was pissed off. So WWHulk is capable of destroying a planet with ease, provided he gets pissed off.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Hulk has unlimited potential?


Yeah right....


He hasnt shown anything like that. He hasnt beaten Current Thor, Current SS or anyone on that level.

Yup, IT ARE DE UNLIMITED!

Everytime Hulk runs out of energy against fighting someone who's barely herald level, a new best friend of his is going to die right nearby

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Yup, IT ARE DE UNLIMITED!

Everytime Hulk runs out of energy against fighting someone who's barely herald level, a new best friend of his is going to die right nearby

Is this yet ANOTHER comment on the so called "stalemate" against Sentry? For one, they NEVER stated WHY Hulk reverted to Banner, so saying he burned himself out is simply speculation, and shitty speculation as well, unless you're admitting Sentry is worse than Warrior Madness Thor, who Hulk has beaten before without reverting.

WWHulk is the ONLY time in Hulk's history where he's reverted, and it's easily theorized that it's because of the Sentry's unique aura effect on the Hulk.

Originally posted by Master Court
Is this yet ANOTHER comment on the so called "stalemate" against Sentry? For one, they NEVER stated WHY Hulk reverted to Banner, so saying he burned himself out is simply speculation, and shitty speculation as well, unless you're admitting Sentry is worse than Warrior Madness Thor, who Hulk has beaten before without reverting.

- Sentry IS below warrior madness Thor.
- Hulk was powered up.
- It was not true warrior madnes Thor.
- Even if it was, Hulk punched him away as the bomb landed, NOT a victory.

Couple of flaws in that pathetic post of yours.

When did WMT and Hulk fought? Crap again, WMT had the PG and would destroy Hulk.

Ok. Couple flaws. But not pathetic.

I still made my point.

Hulk took every hit madness Thor had, and then casually uppercuts his ass away. That's FACT. It was Warrior Madness. And you missed my point. If Hulk has gone the distance with Warrior Madness Thor, but "burned himself out" against Sentry, that would mean Sentry is more powerful than Warrior Madness Thor.

But nevermind ANY of that shit. When WWHulk went world breaker mode, he was exerting much more energy than before, even while holding back, and he didn't revert.

And never mind any of THAT shit; they never officially said one damn WORD about why Hulk reverted. So saying it's because he "burnt himself out" is still, regardless if I'm wrong or right, purely baseless speculation. You're wrong, I'm wrong, or rather neither of us are RIGHT. It's an unexplained phenomenon that has NEVER happened before, even during Hulk and Thor's hour-long test of strength. If you're going to exert energy against ANYONE, it's Thor. Or ONSLAUGHT. And Hulk didn't revert then. So it's no use using that as an argument.

This versus is Regular Hulk anyway, so Apocalypse wins.

F**k you on anything related to WWHulk. Give him a real challenge and it's something worth talking about.

Originally posted by The Nuul
When did WMT and Hulk fought? Crap again, WMT had the PG and would destroy Hulk.

It happened in a Hulk comic not long after the warriors reborn stuff.

It's completely ridiculous though, Thor can't enter Warrior Madness, he STATED that in the Onslaught Saga. Even if he was somehow able to, it would have severe consequences in Asgard, which it did not.

Still crap, Thor is not properly written around Hulk.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Yup, IT ARE DE UNLIMITED!

Everytime Hulk runs out of energy against fighting someone who's barely herald level, a new best friend of his is going to die right nearby sentry's energy can effect hulk's anger, and "world breaker" mode is being overlooked again.

And world breaker was owned by a satellite.

Originally posted by Master Court
Ok. Couple flaws. But not pathetic.

I still made my point.

Hulk took every hit madness Thor had, and then casually uppercuts his ass away. That's FACT. It was Warrior Madness. And you missed my point. If Hulk has gone the distance with Warrior Madness Thor, but "burned himself out" against Sentry, that would mean Sentry is more powerful than Warrior Madness Thor.

No.

"casually uppercuts his ass away" Hulk's eyes are WIDE OPEN out of fear the very panel before it. You like to put ridiculous spin on things to make it seem like the Hulk could actually win. You also seem to think that *pause for laughter* PUNCHING *pause for laughter* is the best that Thor can do!

Dear lord, don't let the Hulk's feeble limitations cripple your mind and force you to conjure up ridiculous things about Thor.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
sentry's energy can effect hulk's anger, and "world breaker" mode is being overlooked again.

Overlooked?

I just ridiculed it in the post you quoted....

not just any satellite though.

but the main point was his strength being disregarded by your hulk hate (don't deny it nuul ), dude's casual step was threatening the east coast. it's not out of the question to assume that that hulk was operating on levels of physical power that were not used by many of the people listed.

Unlimited str, yeah yeah.....only helps why slugging it out or lifting stuff.


People like Thor, Supes are not properly written around Hulk type characters(DD is kinda different). How can they use all/most of their powers most of the time then slug it out with bricks. Strange properly written should have BFR Hulk, not slug it out. Its a handicap so Hulk can win and crap writing.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
not just any satellite though.

but the main point was his strength being disregarded by your hulk hate (don't deny it nuul ), dude's casual step was threatening the east coast. it's not out of the question to assume that that hulk was operating on levels of physical power that were not used by many of the people listed.

Help me understand.

How is it a casual step when he's constantly pouring out Gamma energy and almost exploding??

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Help me understand.

How is it a casual step when he's constantly pouring out Gamma energy and almost exploding??

You never stop with this shit, do you?

Anti-Hulk patrol, 24/7? Nevermind what's canon and consistent over the years, such as Hulk contending with these f**kers you so wholeheartedly defend against Hulk.

If you start actually debating this shit, then I'll bother debating with you. Until you stop name calling or ignoring the good points certain people make, your debates aren't going to mean shit to people.

First, grow a set of balls so people's defensive arguments don't bunch your panties so much.

Second, grow a brain, so you can actually debate with canon feats and consistent history, so your debates mean something other than enthusiastic rants.

Lookey here; WWHulk LET the satellites take him out. He ASKED for it AND he was holding back his power, meaning he wasn't bracing for it at all. He LET it take him out. That's canon. Meaning not up for debate. It's fact.

And for anybody else that claims PIS against their fav's versus Hulk; If it's consistent, then it's NOT PIS. Hulk consistently contends with Thor, consistently contends with Superman. Besides; Thor and Superman usually win, so what're you complaining about? That a guy that can rip open black holes can damage Thor and Superman? They're not invulnerable. All three characters have died before, so you can't say one or the other is completely invulnerable. They've all proven able to shatter planets. They've all taken planet-shattering attacks. Hulk is Superman-level. That's all that's argued. He IS. It's fact and consistently proven. No one in the history of comics has won "hands down" against Hulk, Thor, or Superman. So it's pointless to debate that any one is more powerful than the other.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
It happened in a Hulk comic not long after the warriors reborn stuff.

It's completely ridiculous though, Thor can't enter Warrior Madness, he STATED that in the Onslaught Saga. Even if he was somehow able to, it would have severe consequences in Asgard, which it did not.


Didnt that happend in Ghosts Of The Future ....not canon right?

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Help me understand.

How is it a casual step when he's constantly pouring out Gamma energy and almost exploding?? ^ as you just stated is how. at his emotional state, his power output was enough to make his simple footstep destructive.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Unlimited str, yeah yeah.....only helps why slugging it out or lifting stuff.


People like Thor, Supes are not properly written around Hulk type characters(DD is kinda different). How can they use all/most of their powers most of the time then slug it out with bricks. Strange properly written should have BFR Hulk, not slug it out. Its a handicap so Hulk can win and crap writing. well, strange was going to own him, but he felt sort of responsible for what he did and tried to go the peaceful rout. then obviously banner played possum and then did the deed.

strange then dropped the peaceful nonsense and channeled zom so that he could mount a physical offense, it too back fired since he couldn't go all the way

it was strange's compassion that let him down twice, hulk also capitalized on it twice.

it's not crap if you can understande the simple concept of: acting like a monster to beat a monster thus becoming a monster worse than the one you wanted to stop.

Originally posted by Master Court
Hulk consistently contends with Thor, consistently contends with Superman. Besides; Thor and Superman usually win, so what're you complaining about? That a guy that can rip open black holes can damage Thor and Superman? They're not invulnerable. All three characters have died before, so you can't say one or the other is completely invulnerable. They've all proven able to shatter planets. They've all taken planet-shattering attacks. Hulk is Superman-level. That's all that's argued. He IS. It's fact and consistently proven. No one in the history of comics has won "hands down" against Hulk, Thor, or Superman. So it's pointless to debate that any one is more powerful than the other.

Hulk's never had a canon fight with Superman, so it can't be used in a debate.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Hulk's never had a canon fight with Superman, so it can't be used in a debate.


I'm not using it for the debate. I'm making a point of Hulk's power.

Canon or not, they wouldn't choose someone who couldn't realistically fight Superman. Guys like Hulk, Thor, and Silver Surfer have fought Superman because they're realistically tough opponents.

I'm sure if either Marvel or DC had total control in canon, they'd have their guy stomp the other one. But since I'm using an example Hulk didn't win, does it really make a difference?

I'll just rephrase. Hulk COULD(rather than HAS) contend with Superman, as their comparable feats could suggest. As they chose Hulk to be Superman's opponent, both companies agree Hulk hangs with Supes.

And finally; I hereby retract any statements or arguments I made referencing combat feats the Hulk has performed against Superman.

But it doesn't change the fact that in each of their own canon continuity, they've all done the things I've said. Died, planet shattering, etc. Although, some of the feats Superman has performed, the Hulk can't based on lack of certain powers. Namely flight and FTL travel.

Same companies chose Spidey to contend with Superboy.

Chew on that for a couple of seconds.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Same companies chose Spidey to contend with Superboy.

Chew on that for a couple of seconds.



I can't believe you won one.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Same companies chose Spidey to contend with Superboy.

Chew on that for a couple of seconds.

Don't forget Venom owning both Spiderman and Superman.

Clearly Siperman is 100+ brick and Venom is above him

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Same companies chose Spidey to contend with Superboy.

Chew on that for a couple of seconds.
I don't see anything wrong with that.

I also see no problems with Storm beating Wonder Woman, or Wolverine beating Lobo. Both are above their respective DC counterparts in power.

Also, I do have a problem with LT and Spectre looking like equals. LT would solo the entire DC multiverse and poop on seven Spectres and three Sources at the same time. LT FTW.

Oh, but the Captain Marvel/Thor fight? Jesus, did they get that wrong. Captain Marvel would stomp Thor worse than Superman did. 10/10.