Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I have wondered the outcome of this thread for a long time, so I decided to make it.

Who wins?

Sephiroth speedblitz.

Kuja isn't exactly slow...

Sephiroth explodes Kuja with Lifestream.

shame the Lifestream isn't in this fight and doesn't have any relation to Kuja
just like the Force and Sephiroth
your own logic has screwed you

If Kuja got Ultima in, Sephiroth will die.

Kuja vs Sephiroth; Sephiroth wins.

Trance Kuja vs Sephiroth; Trance Kuja WTFpwns Sephiroth so badly it makes Cloud straight.

Originally posted by 123KID
shame the Lifestream isn't in this fight and doesn't have any relation to Kuja
just like the Force and Sephiroth
your own logic has screwed you

Furion got burned!!

Originally posted by 123KID
shame the Lifestream isn't in this fight and doesn't have any relation to Kuja
just like the Force and Sephiroth
your own logic has screwed you
Negative Lifestream is a weapon Sephiroth created for hismelf to use, battles on KMC take place on neutral grounds, Sephiroth has complete control over it and can do anything he wants with it, he can make it cover a city in a gesture, K.T. is screwed

cover a city in seconds ?
oh noooooo
oh wait Odin could release Atomic Bomb level destruction and Bahamut is stronger than him and Kuja let Bahamut hit him right in the face and only got a little scratch
and that was regular Kuja

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Kuja isn't exactly slow...

Compared with some people from FFVII, he is extremely slow.

Trance Kuja destroyed a planet. Trance Kuja was said by the creators to be the second strongest enemy in the FF series (second only to Ultimecia or whoever you spell her name).

he destroyed the surface, he basically did the same thing kefka did, also if the protagonists werent there, imagine what sephiroth couldve done to the planet i don't think thats an official statement by the creators, i heard it was just a fans opinion.

Ingame text states Kuja destroyed Terra and the game beats anything you say so you fail.

Ingame said that kefka has destroyed the world as well so no i dont "fail"

Originally posted by Terryc250
Ingame said that kefka has destroyed the world as well so no i dont "fail"

Mikoto: You haven't got a chance. You saw Kuja's power. He destroyed a
world by himself...

Sephiroth is no where near Kuja's power

It was said that kefka destroyed the world, but he didn't literally blow up the entire planet(if he did, he wouldve been dead, same with kuja), he did the same thing kuja did which was destroy the entire surface making it inhabitant, it even showed Kuja just destroying the surface

Anyway, he did it to a planet without the protagonists on, if the protagonists weren't on the planet Sephiroth was on, he would've transformed the entire planet into his personal vessel raiding other planets.

AC Sephiroth has control over the lifestream he can choose to transform the entire planet or just remove it all out of the planet, and the planet wouldve turned to this:

watch at 0:55
zRyKqG7YYZE

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Trance Kuja destroyed a planet.

Terra was pathetic.

And doesn't matter how powerful you are, if the enemy can kill you before you have the chance of using your power.



Can you show me a link?

Terra was a highly advanced planet that could actually do under its own power what Sephiroth dreamed of doing: travel through space and take over other planets

Originally posted by 123KID
Terra was a highly advanced planet that could actually do under its own power what Sephiroth dreamed of doing: travel through space and take over other planets

From what I remember, Terra was a dying planet.

But it doesn't matter. Sephiroth's superior speed, insane telekinesis, and the ability of not being harmed by any energy or physical attack(because of intangibility, or simply abandoning the body he is inhabiting), gives him the victory.

Sephiroth is too versatile for Kuja.

You also have to consider that terra had no powerful opponents to oppose kuja, AC Sephiroth can do the same thing to the planet if there was no one to oppose him

Originally posted by 123KID
shame the Lifestream isn't in this fight and doesn't have any relation to Kuja
just like the Force and Sephiroth
your own logic has screwed you
I don't give a damn about the force. It blows up Meteor, and it will damn well blow up Kuja.

except, if the Force isn't here, neither is Lifestream
just using what you all argued

Lulz, double standards ftl.

The argument was originally that force only works on people connected to the force, lifestream can destroy all matter

Well...the argument was wrong.

I am not sure who wins here tbh. Kid, what are some T Kuja speed feats?

Originally posted by Terryc250
You also have to consider that terra had no powerful opponents to oppose kuja, AC Sephiroth can do the same thing to the planet if Cloud is not there to oppose him

Fixed.

It's all about his underestimation of Cloud, really.





About the Negative Lifestream... Sephiroth created it, can control it, and is conected to it. In a battle, it is a part of him, like the Masamune.

What we were talking about Nihilus, is that he couldn't drain the life(the Force) out of Sephiroth, because he isn't connected to it. And some of Nihilus attacks were not useful too, because Seph needed Midichlorians(sp)/the Force, to be affected.
The same is not applyed to the Lifestream. It's a force of destruction and can affect anything connected to it or not. Magic can affect anything too, and the Lifestream is the source of magic.

Actually, only the Drain could not be used, any other attack could.

as for Kuja's speed feats he apparently beat the Invincible back to Gaia after destroying Terra and then after that he crossed dimensions to the Crystal World where the universe was formed from
all under his own power and i guess through flight

Originally posted by 123KID
except, if the Force isn't here, neither is Lifestream
just using what you all argued
WTF. Why the hell would the force be here. You make no sense. Is Kuja force-sensitive? Seph summons Lifestream and blows up Kuja.

except there's no lifestream here
just like there's no Force here
both are outside powers that course through all living things but aren't included in fights here according to people in the Nihilus vs. Sephiroth topic
you're the one who makes no sense by saying there's no Force but there is a Lifestream

Ummmm Lifestream is very different to the force. Seph can use the Nega- lifestream as a weapon. Where the hell does this battle take place anyway.

On neutral grounds, Lifestream is Sephiroths weapon and will work against anyone, Force-Drain is something that only applies to things connected to the force. Lifestream destroys all matter.

it's not a Force Drain what Nihilus does
people need to stop spreading that BS

and i heard people argue Nihilus couldn't TK Sephiroth because he's not in the Force.....

anyway, Kuja Ultima for the win

Kuja can't even hurt Sephiroth(intangibility)!

Seph crush him with TK. Or he simply speedblitz Kuja(opening a portal to the Crystal World have nothing to do with speed, sorry).

Speedblitz FTW. Intangibility + Telekinesis FTW.

Sephiroth FTW.

How does Kuja win?

Originally posted by SHM
Kuja can't even hurt Sephiroth(intangibility)!

Seph crush him with TK. Or he simply speedblitz Kuja(opening a portal to the Crystal World have nothing to do with speed, sorry).

Speedblitz FTW. Intangibility + Telekinesis FTW.

Sephiroth FTW. 1. Too bad SEPHIROTH has never shown it, JENOVA has.

2. His TK is pathetic honestly, he TKed some people and the top of a building, and he is gonna TK a Megaflare tanking being like Kuja(and that was normal Kuja). And don't even say Sephiroth's TK is more powerful than Megaflare. Speedblitz I can't really comment on.

Too bad Sephiroth is Jenovah wiseass.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Too bad SEPHIROTH has never shown it, JENOVA has.

Too bad Sephiroth's body in AC/ACC, is 100% Jenova.



Telekinesis, is when you use your mental power to affect the physical world. Pushing things, holding things... Like he was doing with Holy.

If Sephiroth use the power he was using on Holy, against Kuja, it's all over.

And about the Megaflare... It didn't hit Kuja directly. It was close, but not a direct hit.
But Bahamut Sin's Megaflare hit Cloud directly, he didn't even bleed, and he is still much weaker than Sephiroth.
And don't even say FFIX Bahamut is a city-buster. He would have destroyed the Iifa Tree and Alexandria in one shot, if that was the case.



And that's what he needs to win the battle.
Can you imagine Sephiroth fighting a statue? In this case, the "statue" is Kuja.

I repeat:

Speedblitz FTW. Intangibility + Telekinesis FTW.

And Sephiroth FTW.




Masamune, his speed, and the ability to fly. That's all Sephiroth needs.

I believe its been officially stated that Trance Kuja is strongest FF villain of all time (sephiroth merged with jenova being 3rd)

1st: trance kuja
2nd: time compressed ultimacia
3rd: Jenova merged Sephiroth
4th: god kefka (interesting... ud think he wudda been higher)

So, Magic Lifestream still blows up Kuja.

Originally posted by Hannibal-Lector
I believe its been officially stated that Trance Kuja is strongest FF villain of all time (sephiroth merged with jenova being 3rd)

1st: trance kuja
2nd: time compressed ultimacia
3rd: Jenova merged Sephiroth
4th: god kefka (interesting... ud think he wudda been higher)
Can u provide evidence that its official and not just someones opinion?

Originally posted by Terryc250
Can u provide evidence that its official and not just someones opinion?

The fact that Neo Ex-Death is not part of the list, is already a proof that it's a fake one.

In coolness Kuja>>>>>>Sephy,

In power Kuja>>>>Sephy,

In close range combat Sephy>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kuja.

In uniqueness Kuja>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sephy (black cloaked man with sword, soo original),

In magic abilities Kuja>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sephy (Kuja teleports sephy into space and he suffocates, that's just for starts),

To lazy to write "Trance Kuja" 15 times =/

Hmmm....what else is there to compare? o.o

In your opinion it is.

Coolness= Does that even matter. It's someone's opinion.

Power= Seph has the Lifestream.

Close Range= Yes

Originality= I'm not going to even bother touching this one.

Spells: (Just so you know, that wouldn't work, due to Sephiroth not needing to breathe.) Sephiroth is a master over all materia.

Sephiroth don't even need a physical body. Kuja can't hurt him, but there are so many things Seph could do to him.

Originally posted by Furion
In your opinion it is.

Coolness= Does that even matter. It's someone's opinion.

Power= Seph has the Lifestream.

Close Range= Yes

Originality= I'm not going to even bother touching this one.

Spells: (Just so you know, that wouldn't work, due to Sephiroth not needing to breathe.) Sephiroth is a master over all materia.

This thread dose not say Kuja vs Sephy "In battle only"

Since coolness IS a factor my opinion counts, just like yours and it should be down to popular vote, don't dismiss it.

Power...I don't remember sephy killing anyone with the lifestream, so unless u know its exact limits, hard to say that....

Originality....don't count? more like u CANT mount any defences in sephys favor.

sephy don't NEED to breath? riiiiight, guess them lungs he has is just for the sake of fitting in......what a load of CRAP!

Jenova is a calamity from the sky, she flew to earth, and shapeshifted herself to look like the Cetras deceased loved ones, Jenova needs no air to breath, she doesn't sweat or run out of energy, Sephiroth is Jenova.

Lifestream is the essence and power of the entire planet, it can basically do anything. Sephiroth stated he was going to transform the entire planet into his own vessel, lifestream is also capable of destruction, we've seen a small portion of the lifestream disinigrate Meteor, Sephiroth will either Speedblitz Kuja, TK him frozen stiff then cut him to shreds, or kill him with the lifestream.

Kuja is cool? I guess if you think midget transvestites are cool..

Terry, you are quite clearly a final fantasy 7 fan boy, thats ok...

BUT, being bias against Kuja wont be tolerated, just cause FFIX ain't had a sequal -_-

Did you even play FFIX? or you just read other pplz bad reviews and let them decide your life?

Finally, leave JENOVA's feats out of it, i don't remember it saying sephy had EVERY ability JENY did.....

You obviously have no knowledge of Sephiroth, SEPHIROTH IS JENOVA, meaning everything that Jenova is/was, is Sephiroth.

I'm a fanboy because I state facts? YOU are obviously a Kuja fanboy, you don't see me going around shouting how "cool" Sephiroth is and how unique he is.. did i upset you by calling Kuja a midget transvestite?

1) I'm obviously a a fan girl
2) yes, i quite offended. But i have learned to restrain my self from typing to much into that.
3) your obviously a sephy fan boy.
4) i think you underestimate sephys arrogance, if cloud can beat sephy (Regardless of how much he held back) Kuja can too.

I dun wanna break any hearts here, but sephy ain't invincible, get over it and move on ^^

FURTHERMORE......i have plenty of knowledge on sephy and JENOVA, since i have the games, i played the games and i understood the games. Aswel as the movie which i have seen countless times.

I think your knowledge is lacking here NOT mine.

Proof of your lack of knowledge right there.


More lack of knowledge, Sephiroth has control over it, you should know what the lifestream is capable of, if you've played the game

Comprehend this, Sephiroth IS Jenova, Jenova IS Sephiroth, he has her body, powers, voice, form, etc

Kuja is not Cloud, Cloud only won because
a) PIS
b) Didn't use any of his powers
c) Refused to kill him when he had chances, so he can continue to torment him for as long as he could

It won't be the same with Kuja

Originally posted by Terryc250
a) PIS
b) Didn't use any of his powers
c) Refused to kill him when he had chances, so he can continue to torment him for as long as he could

It won't be the same with Kuja

I see, your a psychologist? Or did use some special power to read his mind to figure that out? .........nope, thought not.

So, thats your OPINION, not some fact that happens to elude me.

....dident use his powers, tormented him.... sounds a lot like well a lot of arrogance, that happens to be part of his personality, now i'm no expert but i dont think he can just turn that off.

Also, theres no proof that sephys lil abilities that your soooo proud of(lifestream) would even work on Kuja, he IS from a different planet after all and he's not human like any other of his "victims", he's a genome. Even if it affected him genetically he still is a powerful sorcerer and could mount a defence.

1 added note: this is AC sephy and if in AC he dun use his powers, why would he get to in this hyperthetical battle. ~got ya now, dont i?~

~Yawn~ getting tired now, but ill still be here to defend Kuja from your clearly bias opinion.

This is ridiculous. You cannot prove a character is cooler than another one. That's just opinion, no matter what you say.
And about originality... FFIX was an homage to the previous FFs. Most of it is not original, and that includes Kuja's character.

But anyway... It exist a DMW in Crisis Core called "Light Speed". In this cutscene, Pre-Nibel Sephiroth(his weakest and slowest form ever) kills a group of Genesis copies and robots, in less than a second. He literaly disappears while moving, and he does the same thing against Zack on Nibelheim.

Kuja on the other hand, don't have any feats of speed. And we can see his magic attacks, but we cannot see Sephiroth when he is moving.

Exist maaaaaaaaany ways he could beat Kuja. But to turn this simple, I will only use the speedblitz argument.

1. No. How much a character is cool doesn't matter at all and is only ones opinion.I can say HUNK or Leon Kennedy or Dante is cooler then Kuja. That would be my opinion. It would not affect the overall outcome of the fight.

Where's all the long silver haired black jacket wearing insane guys that wield freaking long swords?

Lifestream destroyed Meteor which wasn't of that world and wasn't connected to the lifestream at all.

Oh and about AC Sephiroth not getting his powers......Go talk to a guy named Burning Thought. Tell him Defiance Kain doesn't have any powers from Blood Omen 1 and 2. What he'll say is basically the same thing for Sephiroth.

Lifestream at its best can destroy meteor and MAYBE a planet(as in kill all its life), Kuja destroyed one completely. TRY AGAIN.

More sephy fan-boys, what did i do to deserver this -_-

Like i said before this thread is NOT, repeat NOT about battle only, if it was it would of said so. I have already admitted coolness is my opinion but it still belongs in this vs thread, like i ALSO said before it should be down to everyones vote.

Meteor was just a giant hunk of rock, non-living, non-intelligent ROCK, is the same true for Kuja? Did that rock have the ability to cast magic? NO!

I did not say AC sephy did not have his powers.....i simply stated he decided not to use them, since this thread is about that AC sephy and he did not USE his powers.....he wouldn't use them here, after all your only giving Kuja credit for things u actually see him do, yes? and we know for a FACT he dose not show all his abilities or feats (damn you square-Enix for no sequel or spin offs like FFVII got).

I have all FF before IX, while I'm aware the OVERALL game is NOT original thats not we are debating here. Kuja = NOT original? Hmmm prove it, cuz i dun remember seeing anyone like him before and i think i would remember that.
l
Well this "Light speed" your so impressed with, like u said is in FF: CC and has no relevance. He did not use it against cloud in FF:VII(PSOne) or in AC. Also yo do note every sequel sephy appears in he gets more and more stronger, unlike FFIX where Kuja don't have the chance.......all them abilities and he still lost....TWICE!

Lmao u didn't like my coolness vs part? your gonna love this ^^

Amounts of times evil plans stopped Kuja>>>Sephy, score 1 more point for Kuja, baby. (see the whole non-sequel part can work in my favor too)

While on the other hand i do agree with you about speed, at least from what i have available, but kuja CAN teleport freely at will, now im not saying thats a 100% defense against sephy...not by quite a bit. But yet again his teleporting abilities never really got fully explained.

Last line of defense...for now....taking this a lil out of the final fantasy world...in KH:2 you can quite easily block sephys speedblitz with sora. YES, YES, i KNOW he had the key blade, im simply saying there could be some magic conterpart to block his attack.

Now for you ppl, i noticed you don't really come up with a decent counter-argument or even prove 1/10 of what i say incorrect....its always sephy COULD do this or that, please for the love of god actually fully read this post before just dismissing everything i say for you precious sephy. (which you all happen to be fan-boys of)

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
I see, your a psychologist? Or did use some special power to read his mind to figure that out? .........nope, thought not.

So, thats your OPINION, not some fact that happens to elude me.

....dident use his powers, tormented him.... sounds a lot like well a lot of arrogance, that happens to be part of his personality, now i'm no expert but i dont think he can just turn that off.

Also, theres no proof that sephys lil abilities that your soooo proud of(lifestream) would even work on Kuja, he IS from a different planet after all and he's not human like any other of his "victims", he's a genome. Even if it affected him genetically he still is a powerful sorcerer and could mount a defence.

1 added note: this is AC sephy and if in AC he dun use his powers, why would he get to in this hyperthetical battle. ~got ya now, dont i?~

~Yawn~ getting tired now, but ill still be here to defend Kuja from your clearly bias opinion.

No its from the words of the creators, you fail.

Lifestream destroys matter, If it can destroy a meteor, or a planet, or humans, I'm sure it can destroy Kuja

Because AC Sephiroth has the power of negative lifestream duh!

The only feat Kuja has is his destroying the surface of Terra feat, which isn't even that impressive, if it was Sephiroth on Terra, he wouldve transformed Terra into his ship, and raided other planets, infecting them and basically becoming unstoppable.

Which isn't destroying a planet.

Sephiroth cannot blow up a planet like Kuja can.

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
More sephy fan-boys, what did i do to deserver this -_-

Because you obviously don't know anything about Sephiroth so people are here to enlighten you


Your point? The lifestream was able to travel across the continent in seconds, Sephiroth with a gesture of his hand covered the entire Midgar city with the negative lifestream, The lifestream is so fast it makes Kuja look like a rock, and Sephiroth can always TK Kuja frozen.


Why wouldn't he use them here? Kuja is NOT Cloud, meaning he has no reason to torment Kuja like he did with Cloud, he'll just finish Kuja off quickly like he did with Zack or Tseng.


transvestites are quite original in the FF series i admit its true.


Wow, I think ur a bit slow-minded or something, AC Sephiroth > FFVII Sephiroth > CC Sephiroth, he has AC Sephiroth has ALL its powers and more, AC Sephiroth is 100% Jenova and control over the negative lifestream, FFVII is Sephiroth with bodyparts of Jenova, CC Sephiroth is his human infused jenova cells body.


Thats Gameplay, in gameplay you can take multiple sword hits and survive, and little cactus monsters can take giant bahamut blasts, in actual fight, Sora would get blitz'd just as Tifa got blitz'd by Loz.


Tell me what i've said thats incorrect and i'll give you proof he can do it.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Which isn't destroying a planet.

Sephiroth cannot blow up a planet like Kuja can.

Kuja destroyed the SURFACE

Sephiroth could just use the planet, travel to another planet, then after hes done with the planet, withdraw all its lifestream

zRyKqG7YYZE

And that planet would be ENITRELY destroyed

Enlighten me all you want ill still be here to stop your insaine notion of sephy>kuja.


"Your point? The lifestream was able to travel across the continent in seconds"

Weak argument here but, that was the lifestream not affected by sephy, with sephy at the helm things wold be diffrent.


"Sephiroth with a gesture of his hand covered the entire Midgar city with the negative lifestream"

Yup thats uber fast, any real damage to the planet? NO. Anyone get hurt by it? NO. Did it look pretty? NO!!!!


"The lifestream is so fast it makes Kuja look like a rock, and Sephiroth can always TK Kuja frozen."

Last i checked Kuja was immune to status affects. So would tornados but that dun mean one could beat Kuja.


"Why wouldn't he use them here?"

READ THE F'in........AHem....Cause He never used them in AC and the thread is called "AC sephy" NOT "AC sephy who learned from his past mistakes".

"Kuja is NOT Cloud"

. . .No comment needed, even my perceptive abilities noticed that.


"meaning he has no reason to torment Kuja like he did with Cloud"

AGAIN REA......Tormenting ppl is part of his character, its something he LIKES to do.


"like he killed Tseng"

Was that not a sephy clone that did that?


"transvestites are quite original in the FF series i admit its true."

I swear, stop calling him that
A) Its not true, next time even think of saying it i want a quote from an official source or ima......just dont.

B) Someone sounds jealous of Kuja, i bet ya just some overweight child attacking someone who you counlent possibly understand.

C) Attacking a Final Fantasy char with verbal assults is weak and pathetic, but i get you have no other attacks that would work. HE is NOT a transvestite.


"Wow, I think ur a bit slow-minded or something"

Attacking me with verbal assaults is quite clearly sad and pointless, i simply have a diffrent point of view then you.


"AC Sephiroth > FFVII Sephiroth > CC Sephiroth"

Well thats quite clearly true, yet that almighty technique which was in CC, NEVER appeared in VII, let alone the movie. Thus has no place in this battle.


"Thats Gameplay, in gameplay you can take multiple sword hits and survive, and little cactus monsters can take giant bahamut blasts"

OK, i submit for the whole WORLD to see, i was wrong about that, i withdraw that statement. Game battles and CGI type battles have diffrent mechanics.


"in actual fight, Sora would get blitz'd just as Tifa got blitz'd by Loz. "

*looks for official evidence* Hmmm another Opinion, not that this has anything to do with Kuja and Sephy but the keyblade is proven to protect its master from dangers he would be PWNED by without.


"Tell me what i've said thats incorrect and i'll give you proof he can do it. "

Well "Sephy would kill kuja" thats for a start, but its really all that matters....


"Sephiroth cannot blow up a planet like Kuja can."

Terry, this IS true...well if he did actually blow the planet whole, dun get me wrong im saying he did, BUT im also not saying he didn't. True the FMV dose not show the planet blow like the death star BUT also dose not show a planet still standing after the aftermath of the explosion taking place.

Basically put its left for people to interpret best they can. (please dun let our debate start forming about this) -_- Thats all for now ^^

Tseng was not dead.

"Sephiroth could just use the planet, travel to another planet, then after hes done with the planet"

Just like driving a car, eh?.....WARNING: to any ppl who want to use a planet as a vessel, please remember inexperienced drivers COULD crash into the sun, please be careful now. would kinda end sephys plan fast, eh?

Note: that was meant as humor not actual evidence for all the ppl reading us debate with each other. ^^



"withdraw all its lifestream

And that planet would be ENITRELY destroyed"

Last time i checked bugenhagen who's model this was was not sephy, was not a cetra and finally was not JENVOA, how the hell can you say he was even right OR that he didn't use that model to motivate cloud. Simply put that's unreliable evidence at best.

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
Enlighten me all you want ill still be here to stop your insaine notion of sephy>kuja.

Sephiroth > Kuja, because there r so many ways Sephiroth can kill Kuja, and their are no ways Kuja can harm Sephiroth



Sephy at the helm thing? What are you talking about?


Did he use it to attack Cloud? No.

You have some horrible logic, we've seen what the lifestream is capable of, so just because you didn't see it in the movie, doesn't mean its unable to do so. Thats like saying just because we haven't seen Barrett kill a human with his gun, it means his gun is unable to harm humans.


Telekenises is a status effect? Huh? Do you know what TK is? Its not a spell, its a MENTAL FORCE. Don't compare Sephiroths TK with "tornados" tornados cant contain Holy.



I don't know if you have trouble understand, or you have reading problems, Sephiroth is only ARROGANT with CLOUD, because he wants to torment him as much as he could, WITH OTHERS, he kills them instantly, Aeris, Zack, he massacred Nibelheim, the shinra masion, all in no time at all.


No its not, hes only like that with CLOUD, comprehend that in your mind please.


No it was Jenova bodyparts, acting on Sephiroths willpower.


I'm just stating facts here.. why are you denying it? I'll give a couple DEFINITIONs of a transvestite from dictionary.com

transvestite:
"person with a strong desire to dress in clothing of the opposite sex"

transvestite:
Someone who dresses in the clothes usually worn by the opposite sex. Transvestites may be bisexual, heterosexual, or homosexual (see bisexuality, heterosexuality, and homosexuality).


So I dont understand why you're denying it.


No, its because you're not comprehending simple things, and stating false things even though you cearly lack knowledge of Sephiroth.


He never needed to use it, using the Jenova parts in FFVII he had powers of Jenova, that attack is nothing compared to his actual magic and jenova powers.


What can Kuja do against a speedblitz? What speed feats does Kuja have? What can Kuja do against the lifestream? What can Kuja do against Sephiroths TK?


Kuja didn't "blow up" Terra, there is no evidense that says he did, we see the SURFACE destroyed

I don't understand what you just said, Bugenhagen showed what would happen if the lifestream was taken out of the planet. Sephiroth INFECTED the planet and took over the lifestream, giving him CONTROL over it, use your logic here please.

"Sephiroth > Kuja, because there r so many ways Sephiroth can kill Kuja, and their are no ways Kuja can harm Sephiroth"

FAN-BOY OPINION. (enuf said)


"Sephy at the helm thing? What are you talking about?"

When the planet used the lifestream as a weapon...well it was the planet.
If sephy used it the same way, the outcome could be very different.

And I'm getting rather annoyed with the whole sephy getting use the lifestream thing, if he gets to use that, then kuja should equally get something he can control over....like his dragons and the invincible
. Either of which can change the outcome of the battle EVEN if u happen to state something like "there no match for the lifestream". like so many ppl have said "there's always (ill repeat that for you, ALWAYS) the luck of the moment"


"Did he use it to attack Cloud? No."

A) He couldn't
B) He was to overconfident (like always) and cocky
take ya pick.


"You have some horrible logic, we've seen what the lifestream is capable of, so just because you didn't see it in the movie, doesn't mean its unable to do so."

Like i said and now conveniently you have to "didn't see it in the movie".
This thread is based on sephys feats from the movie...I.E he dun use it in the movie,, he dun use it here. (weather or not he is capable)


"Thats like saying just because we haven't seen Barrett kill a human with his gun, it means his gun is unable to harm humans."

One word, Dyne. True he dun finish him off but you clearly see his gun affect him.(try again)
Also I'm not applying....ain't seen, ain't capable of logic, I'm applying didn't do, so cant do logic, I.E AC sephy DIDN'T do it, so AC sephy in this battle wont.


"Telekenises is a status effect? Huh? Do you know what TK is? Its not a spell, its a MENTAL FORCE."

Work on standard humans and lifeforms, yes. Work on powerful sorcerer from a different planet, NO! (OK, maybe a lil. but if u think Kuja's powers wont be able to nulify it...WRONG!).


"Don't compare Sephiroths TK with "tornados" tornados cant contain Holy."

I'm not, i was suggesting the moving speed of a tornado would make Kuja look stil...(meaning the circular speeds of the wind).


"I don't know if you have trouble understand, or you have reading problems"

No, i understand what your saying all to clear, i can make the same argument to you as well. I'm just passionate about my debating. ^^


"Sephiroth is only ARROGANT with CLOUD, because he wants to torment him as much as he could, WITH OTHERS, he kills them instantly, Aeris, Zack, he massacred Nibelheim, the shinra masion, all in no time at all."

Zack, Areis and the ppl at Nibelheim just got into his way, he didn't have an interest in them.
Cloud he viewed as a challenge and I'm sure he would view kuja the same way if he challenged him to combat or saw what he is capable of.
Also comparing Kuja to some common peasant with no powers, weapon or materia is.....outrageous.


"No it was Jenova bodyparts, acting on Sephiroths willpower."

Expect me to remember every little detail? but don't go thinking yo know it all either.


""I'm just stating facts here.. why are you denying it? I'll give a couple DEFINITIONs of a transvestite from dictionary.com

transvestite:
"person with a strong desire to dress in clothing of the opposite sex"

transvestite:
Someone who dresses in the clothes usually worn by the opposite sex. Transvestites may be bisexual, heterosexual, or homosexual (see bisexuality, heterosexuality, and homosexuality).

So I don't understand why you're denying it.""

That my lil friend is whats known as applying human logic to non-humans on a planet that is NOT called earth.
I have NO memory of kuja saying he "desired" or even "wanted" to look like a woman. He simply wears revealing cloths. unless your calling all the jap's who wear/wore similar cloths "transvestites"?
Furthermore, i don't see any cloths shops in FFIX where he could change even if he wanted to. Is Dio from VII one too? (Not that i care about him)
Apparently you have never heard of cultural differences.


"No, its because you're not comprehending simple things, and stating false things even though you cearly lack knowledge of Sephiroth."

I at no point said i knew everything about sephy or JEVOVA for that matter.
But I'm sure you think you think you do, don't worry i wont hold it against you.


"He never needed to use it, using the Jenova parts in FFVII he had powers of Jenova, that attack is nothing compared to his actual magic and jenova powers."

More feats that did not appear in AC? *sigh*


"What can Kuja do against a speedblitz?"

Suppose he teleported out the way? Use a protection spell? HELL for all we know he could just fart at sephy, the point with that is that YOU don't know either.


"What speed feats does Kuja have?"

Suppose it depends on if his teleportation is one of moving fast or de-materializing. If its a speed feat consider the fact he....
1) escaped Terra's impending doom
2) got to Gaia
3) created memoria
4) waited patiently for zidane

BEFORE they even got back to Gaia in the most advanced airship and fastest in the game, shows some considerable speed.


"What can Kuja do against the lifestream?"

What can the lifestream ACTUALLY do against Kuja, that you know for a fact without spectating.


"What can Kuja do against Sephiroths TK?"

Use his own powers?


"Kuja didn't "blow up" Terra, there is no evidense that says he did, we see the SURFACE destroyed"

didn't read what i put did you? or your just dumb. After the initial explosion you do NOT witness that planets fate, it dose NOT show you.
Weather or not it wold be there in ruins or blown like the death star is pure speculation.

Read and fully comprehend my words before making your next post, thank you.

Originally posted by Terryc250
I don't understand what you just said, Bugenhagen showed what would happen if the lifestream was taken out of the planet. Sephiroth INFECTED the planet and took over the lifestream, giving him CONTROL over it, use your logic here please.

I'm saying ....bluntly....how the f*ck dose he know?
He is speculating, you are speculating.

Say i get a 3D model of our solar system and show in 200 years Mars orbit would destabilize and it crash into jupiter, would it make it so? NO!

In Final Fantasy VII, there is absolutely no technology to even monitor weather conditions, so how would bugen know?

Wow can you PLEASE reply normally with proper quotes? Its a hassle to read your replies when you type like that.


Umm no.. I gave you reasons, you have yet to give me anything...


...and what would be the difference? Anything infected by J-cells becomes controlled at Sephiroths will, he even stated he'll turn the planet into his own vessel, obviously he has complete control over it.


The lifestream is Sephiroths weapon, its under his power.. What feats does his dragon have anyway? None?


He could've used it but he didn't need to, if you've been reading what i've been saying the last few posts, Sephiroth wanted to torment Cloud for as long as he could, keep that in your mind please.


No this thread is about AC Sephiroth PERIOD. If its stated he has the power then he can use it, are you new to the forum or something?


Wow your really not understanding my point, If a game manual states Tifa is a human, and she needs to eat, but you don't see her eating in the AC movie, does it mean she doesn't eat at all? No it doesn't.

You're trying to argue facts, Sephiroth has control over the lifestream, FACT, not only has he said it in the movie, but its been stated by the creators themselves.

Just because Sephiroth didn't use it on Cloud, it doesn't mean he cant use it at all, we've seen him use it, just not on Cloud, there is also a reason why he didn't use it on CLoud which i've stated numerous times now.

Sephiroth has control over the lifestream, FACT, don't try to argue it.


ITS NOT A SPELL, it works on ANYTHING that is PHYSICAL, from mist, to buildings, to whatever, having the title "sorcerer" means nothing unless you have proof Kuja has something to defend against it. Just having the title "sorcerer" means NOTHING.


No, you're foolishly trying to argue facts, don't argue the creators words, don't argue the characters words.


No he has no history with Kuja, he will eliminate him quick, i wasn't comparing Kuja to them, i was stating, Sephiroth is ONLY like that to CLoud, anyone else he finishes off quick.


We talk in OUR culture, thats why we're speaking ENGLISH right now, thats why we call Sephiroth sword long, thats why we call Sephiroth evil, we speak in OUR culture, and in OUR culture we call those people transvestites.


Can you show me Kuja's teleport speed, is it instant? Or does he require to CAST? If he must CAST to teleport, it won't help him against an instant speedblitz.


Disintegrate him, Sephiroths body disintegrated when he first fell into the lifestream, when Denzels mom got exposed to the lifestream she died instantly, Lifestream also disintegrated meteor,

So what can Kuja do to protect against this? Please don't just say "Well hes a sorcerer so it just wont work against him!"


Be more specific? Name one of his powers that can protect against Sephiroths TK. Remember Sephiroths TK can hold even Holy still for months.


So you cannot just say the planet exploded without any evidence. He most likely pulled a Kefka.



Oh.. My.. God.. How the F*ck does Bugenhagen know?

First of all, if theres no PLOT reasons at all, you cannot claim a character is LYING

Second of all, Bugenhagen is well over a century old, he can hear the cries of the planet, he is basically the Guru of FFVII, meant to teach the players how the lifestream and planet works, don't even try to argue that Bugenhagen is lying, that is just ridiculous

Originally posted by Terryc250
Kuja destroyed the SURFACE

Sephiroth could just use the planet, travel to another planet, then after hes done with the planet, withdraw all its lifestream

zRyKqG7YYZE

And that planet would be ENITRELY destroyed 1. Prove he destroyed the surface.

2. So he's not actually a planet buster, he only absorbs lifestream? Yet he can destroy planets without it? Riiiiiight...

"Wow can you PLEASE reply normally with proper quotes? Its a hassle to read your replies when you type like that."

You quote your way, ill quote mine ^^


"...and what would be the difference? Anything infected by J-cells becomes controlled at Sephiroths will, he even stated he'll turn the planet into his own vessel, obviously he has complete control over it."

Turn planet into his vessel......fighting Kuja...Relevance? Note: Kuja aint infested with J-cels.


"The lifestream is Sephiroths weapon, its under his power.. What feats does his dragon have anyway? None?"

Hmmmm.....hundreds of dragons flying at him....startle him? distract him? confuse him? claw at him? bite him? Need i continue?


"Sephiroth wanted to torment Cloud for as long as he could, keep that in your mind please."

Your missing the underlying reason. Besides once you start tormenting ppl you can get into a pattern of doing it, him being JENOVA don't mean he wold be immune to normal psychology.


"Wow your really not understanding my point, If a game manual states Tifa is a human, and she needs to eat, but you don't see her eating in the AC movie, does it mean she doesn't eat at all? No it doesn't."

Your right, it don't, but needing to eat and deciding which powers he is going to use is totally different.


"You're trying to argue facts, Sephiroth has control over the lifestream, FACT, not only has he said it in the movie, but its been stated by the creators themselves."

Having a certain power and deciding to use it are two different things, free will is such a *****.


"Just because Sephiroth didn't use it on Cloud, it doesn't mean he cant use it at all, we've seen him use it, just not on Cloud, there is also a reason why he didn't use it on CLoud which i've stated numerous times now."

Read above....


"Sephiroth has control over the lifestream, FACT, don't try to argue it."

Where did i say he cant?


"ITS NOT A SPELL, it works on ANYTHING that is PHYSICAL, from mist, to buildings, to whatever, having the title "sorcerer" means nothing unless you have proof Kuja has something to defend against it."

I don't see you proving Kuja can't defend, weather you wanna call him a sorcerer or a mage dun matter. He has power's and abilities of his own and according to you he will just stand there and lose.


"No, you're foolishly trying to argue facts, don't argue the creators words, don't argue the characters words."

I see, characters words are edged in stone? They don't make mistakes? Or even lie?
The creators, OK which words of the creators are you talking about?


"No he has no history with Kuja, he will eliminate him quick"

lol, you mean he would try. i believe my 4th statement is enough...


"i wasn't comparing Kuja to them, i was stating, Sephiroth is ONLY like that to CLoud, anyone else he finishes off quick."

Well good, only like that to cloud up to that point, people and there attitudes can change.


"We talk in OUR culture, that's why we're speaking ENGLISH right now, that's why we call Sephiroth sword long, that's why we call Sephiroth evil, we speak in OUR culture, and in OUR culture we call those people transvestites."

you still didn't prove Kuja had any desire to dress like a woman, prove that and ill concede the point. I dont remember seeing Kuja walk into a cloths store and ask for the womans section, so good luck proving it.


"Can you show me Kuja's teleport speed, is it instant? Or does he require to CAST? If he must CAST to teleport, it won't help him against an instant speedblitz."

Play FFIX, he clearly teleported without chanting or even waving his hand.
that's fairly conclusive its instant.


"Disintegrate him, Sephiroths body disintegrated when he first fell into the lifestream, when Denzels mom got exposed to the lifestream she died instantly, Lifestream also disintegrated meteor"

was denzel's mom have any powers? did cloud disintegrate when he fell in?


"So what can Kuja do to protect against this? Please don't just say "Well hes a sorcerer so it just wont work against him!""

Well, he can teleport away, he could summon his dragon or he could fly away.....he could attack sephy while he's controlling the lifestream, ever think of that? and please don't say "oh but sephy would be immune to his attacks" sephy is NOT immortal and NOT completely invulnerable. FYI that means he can be defeated.


"Be more specific? Name one of his powers that can protect against Sephiroths TK. Remember Sephiroths TK can hold even Holy still for months."

Holy is a powerful yet simple attack that has no will of its own, just like the summons, Kuja has a strong will and magical abilities. Even should it work, sephy could make a mistake like taunt him or even stare at his beauty (i now i did when i 1st saw him).


So you cannot just say the planet exploded without any evidence. He most likely pulled a Kefka.

For the last f'in god damn time, READ IT THIS TIME....i said, his destroying the planet as the other char's remarked in the game that he did was not fully explained either way.
It is possible that the planet survived but was left in a state that it couldn't support life for a while OR been totally annihilated like the death star. Clearly anyone with any IQ wold understand by this i don't know, but NO ONE dose unless square-enix finally solve the riddle for us. However it IS possible.


"Oh.. My.. God.. How the F*ck does Bugenhagen know?

First of all, if theres no PLOT reasons at all, you cannot claim a character is LYING"

He quite easily could be misinformed or mistaken


"Second of all, Bugenhagen is well over a century old, he can hear the cries of the planet, he is basically the Guru of FFVII, meant to teach the players how the lifestream and planet works, don't even try to argue that Bugenhagen is lying, that is just ridiculous "

Old ppl sometimes forget things or even remember them incorrectly, hearing the planet cry and having a conversation with it and asking it "what would......." such and such do is compleatly diffrent. Masters and Gurus teach what they now, don't mean they are 100% correct.

---------

OK, my turn....Explain how sephy is gonna survive Kuja's best known attack "Ultima", before you answer consider ultima was blasted out of kuja's hand in seconds AND locks on to its target, furthermore it can NOT be stopped, blocked or defended against.

Flare, the "Ultimate fire attack" it circles around its target then blows, not as powerful as ultima but still not weak. (don't bother saying he can walk through fire, because walking through simple flames and getting hit by flare is TOTALLY different.

Flare star, from what i have seen the stronger you are the more this attack dose, since how you keep boring with with his strength, consider that.

Holy, ok he held holy back, buy holy was not aimed at him, it was aimed at meteor. Used against sephy directly could actually hurt him, remember holy the "ultimate white magic attack" has a habit of being effective against bad guys. (the undead to but that's a different story).

Let me guess ya arguement......"sephy wont be affected", "sephy will be immune" or "sephy will dodge it". Right? show s al how much of a Fan-boy yo are.^_^

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Lifestream at its best can destroy meteor and MAYBE a planet(as in kill all its life), Kuja destroyed one completely. TRY AGAIN.

The Compilation Ultimania explains that only a portion of the Lifestream destroyed Meteor. And another portion of the Lifestream(aka the White Materia/Holy) could destroy everything on a planet.
The entire Lifestream is much more than the White Materia/Holy or what destroyed Meteor.

Kuja destroyed the surface of a dying planet. Holy could do that in much less time than what took Kuja.

Get your facts straight and TRY AGAIN.

Terra wasn't dying. You've said this a few times now so I thought I'd point out you're completely wrong.

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
More sephy fan-boys, what did i do to deserver this -_-

Stating facts make you a fanboy now? XD



All threads here are about battles. If one isn't, the OP have to state it.



"Terra was just a giant hunk of rock, non-living, non-intelligent ROCK, is the same true for Sephiroth? Did that rock have the ability to cast magic? NO!"



The characters in all vs threads are suposed to be in bloodlust mode. Do you know what that means?



He have silver hair like Sephiroth and Ultimecia. During a big part of the game, the characters go looking for him and asking NPCs "Did you see a guy on a silver dragon?", exactly like Cloud and the gang are looking for Sephiroth and asking "Did you see a guy in a black cape?". He used the Kingdom of Alexandria to help him, the same way Ultimecia used the Nation of Galbadia to help her. He kicked Garland out of a cliff, exactly like Kefka kicked Ghestal out of the Floating Continent. He caused destruction indiscriminately, like Kefka. Etc.
He isn't a carbon copy of all previous villains, of course not. His love for poetry for example is original. But many things about him were based in other FF villain.



FFVII and CC are part of the same continuity, and are canon to each other. Deal with it.



It's not that "I didn't like" but that "I don't care". I'm here to talk about their powers and feats.
But in your opinion Kuja is cooler than Sephiroth. So what?!



I'm sorry but I don't understand what you are saying.



"But yet again his teleporting abilities never really got fully explained". And that's the problem. For all we know, Kuja could have just opened a portal to the Crystal World and entered it. You cannot compare that with "disappearing here and appearing there in a blink of an eye" like Sephiroth can do.



KH is not canon to FFVII. And, "There could be"? That's assumption. I can say that "there could be" a spell that protects Sephiroth from all Kuja's attacks. But we need proof. "There could be" isn't enough.



You are the one dismissing what we say, for your precious Kuja. We are using facts and evidences presented by official materials.
You are using your assumptions and "there could be"s.

Also, about the transvestite issue:
Nothing Kuja wears is a female piece of clothing.

-The long half-cape thing around his waist doesn't even have a real life counterpart as far as I can tell. He uses it to hide his tail.

-Thongs have been worn long before it was used as a primarily female form of clothing.

-The top he wears is some sort of armor.

That seems about it...he has long hair but if long hair = female in your view Terry you're not worth anothe rpost.

This is getting a little bit ridiculous, your only argument for Kuja winning is that "Sephiroth won't use his powers" with is pretty lame.



Originally posted by UltimaKuja
You quote your way, ill quote mine ^^
sigh.. forum noobs




How old are you? You completely don't understand points that i'm making, the reasons i stated that was proof as Sephiroth has complete control over the lifestream.


Haha Sephiroth could destroy hundreds of dragons instantly in his WEAKEST form, AC Sephiroth with a gesture would annihilate all the dragons.


haha because he did it once on Cloud (and had reasons too, including PIS reasons) but not on anyone else, you think its all a sudden become a habit now?



Why wouldn't he use them? Can you give me a rasons why he wouldn't?



Read that he had reasons to torment Cloud, there is NO reasons to toy around tormenting Kuja, he'll treat him just like anyone else.


HOW CAN HE DEFEND? Thats why i'm asking you, I'm waiting for YOUR reasons on to how he can defend against Sephs TK, what ability will he use to counter it? You're giving no reasons at all.


If there are no plot reasons, NO, characters dont lie, game developers don't make characters lie for no reason at all, they will only lie if it has something to do with the story plot.


Yes he will try and succeed, Kuja has no defense against a speedblitz, Sephs TK, or his lifestream.


They CAN change, but it won't change if theres no reasons for it to change, and its stupid to stupidly assume that it all of a sudden "changed"


He obviously wanted to dress like that duh.. no one forced him to, so he did it at will.


i remember when he teleported the party he had to cast and shoot those beams up.




The lifestream can flow through the planet and is fast as hell, theres no way Kuja can escape it, unless he teleports into outer space, and Sephiroth can still move while controlling the lifestream.


Yes its powerful enough to destroy a planet, yet it couldn't break through Sephiroths TK, your not answering my question, how is Kuja going to break through it if Holy cant?




Yes but we can only say what we saw, we can't just assume that the planet blew up, the planet destruction is only the SURFACE, since thats the only thing we saw.


No hes not, there is ZERO reason for Bugenhagen to lie to the characters/player,.


If theres NO storyline reason, Bugenhagen does NOT lie to the characters/player.



Sephiroth TK'd Holy, and held it for months, Sephiroth is faster then Kuja and will most likely attack first, all he needs to do is stare at Kuja and hes stuck.


It doesn't matter, he stopped its movement and contained it period, making it unable to move, HOLY can destroy ANYTHING it judges evil, Bugenhagen stated that if it judged the planet evil, it would be the end of everything.


I don't know what your even replying to here.. I really do feel like I'm arguing against a little kid, your counter-arguments are ridiculously weak, and alot of it doesn't even make sense,

Anyway, unless you can prove Kuja can defend against
a)Speedblitz
b)Lifestream
c) Sephiroth TK
and that means actually NAME what attack he will use to defend against it.


Then Sephiroth wins

Originally posted by IdiotGod

Nothing Kuja wears is a female piece of clothing.


http://www.ffcompendium.com/chara/9kuja-s.jpg
......Its a female belly dancers outfit

Um, no, it's not......
You are wrong. Get over it. He's not a transvestite.

"Stating facts make you a fanboy now? XD"

If all some ppl have to say is sephy this, sephy that and sephy this again, yes.


"All threads here are about battles. If one isn't, the OP have to state it."

Yes, and the battle between these two people should not just be limited to fighting.


"Terra was just a giant hunk of rock, non-living, non-intelligent ROCK, is the same true for Sephiroth? Did that rock have the ability to cast magic? NO!"

What had terra to do with sephy? because my point was based on sephys feat, your point is.....?


"The characters in all vs threads are suposed to be in bloodlust mode. Do you know what that means?"

OK, so personality traits dont count? then whats the point? Kuja and sephy are defined by there personality.


"He have silver hair like Sephiroth and Ultimecia. During a big part of the game, the characters go looking for him and asking NPCs "Did you see a guy on a silver dragon?", exactly like Cloud and the gang are looking for Sephiroth and asking "Did you see a guy in a black cape?"."

More of a final fantasy in general problem, how creative can them guys at square be? I was referring more to his appearance, but i do take note of what u said.


"FFVII and CC are part of the same continuity, and are canon to each other. Deal with it. "

Deal with the fact FFVII is sooooooooooooooooooooo overrated with more then its fair share of spin-offs leaving FFIX ignored? Sorry, i just cant.


"It's not that "I didn't like" but that "I don't care". I'm here to talk about their powers and feats.
But in your opinion Kuja is cooler than Sephiroth. So what?!"

Powers and feats ain't all there is to compare and limiting ya self to only that indicates a closed mind.


"I'm sorry but I don't understand what you are saying."

Neither do i half the time ^_^


""But yet again his teleporting abilities never really got fully explained". And that's the problem. For all we know, Kuja could have just opened a portal to the Crystal World and entered it. You cannot compare that with "disappearing here and appearing there in a blink of an eye" like Sephiroth can do."

I sure as hell can try.


"KH is not canon to FFVII. And, "There could be"? That's assumption. I can say that "there could be" a spell that protects Sephiroth from all Kuja's attacks. But we need proof. "There could be" isn't enough."

I know its not, i used it to make a point. Ok, i make a lot of assumptions? Well (casts reflect) your also making assumptions that kuja cant stand up to sephy.
Sephy is hounded bye you fan boys cause he is so popular, with so much information floating around about him and a movie too, your all drooling over him pathetically. Hardly any information on kuja exists outside FFIX. Therefore more speculation takes place in threads like this then you might realise.


"You are the one dismissing what we say, for your precious Kuja. We are using facts and evidences presented by official materials.
You are using your assumptions and "there could be"s."

1) I dont dismiss it, i listen and i remember.
2) yes, so many facts, where them facts about kuja? OH that's right, "Sephy this, sephy that."

We DON'T assume everything we say about Sephiroth is based on real evidence, or words from the creators, all FACTS.

The thing is, your not giving ANY reasons as to HOW Kuja will defend against Sephiroth, i have given reasons on how Sephiroth can defend against Kuja, and how Sephiroth can BEAT Kuja.

Originally posted by IdiotGod
Um, no, it's not......
You are wrong. Get over it. He's not a transvestite.
The picture says different
http://www.ffcompendium.com/chara/9kuja-s.jpg

ZZZZZ.....terrys turn ^^

"This is getting a little bit ridiculous, your only argument for Kuja winning is that "Sephiroth won't use his powers" with is pretty lame."

Your only argument is that you happen to know his attacks will work on kuja, when u dont.


"sigh.. forum noobs"

*gets over the weak insult*


"How old are you? You completely don't understand points that I'm making, the reasons i stated that was proof as Sephiroth has complete control over the lifestream."

Square-Enix told you the lifestream will work on Kuja specifically? Other wise please STHU about the lifestream, no one ever said this battle would take place on an actual planet, its FFIX vs FFIX, so a neutral field would be in order for fairness, like a ring in a partially phased dimension between FFVII and FFIX


"Haha Sephiroth could destroy hundreds of dragons instantly in his WEAKEST form, AC Sephiroth with a gesture would annihilate all the dragons."

Im not saying the dragons alone would beat sephy (im not that dumb) BUT hundreds all at the same time WILL keep him distracted and on his toes, enough so Kuja can catch him off-guard


"haha because he did it once on Cloud (and had reasons too, including PIS reasons) but not on anyone else, you think its all a sudden become a habit now?"

I'm saying the thrill of it can easily prove its self seductive.


"Why wouldn't he use them? Can you give me a rasons why he wouldn't?"

You practically answered ya own question here, because he wont feel like he would need them.


"Read that he had reasons to torment Cloud, there is NO reasons to toy around tormenting Kuja, he'll treat him just like anyone else."

Same old, same old weak excuses. your going around in circles with this and its pointless


"HOW CAN HE DEFEND? Thats why I'm asking you, I'm waiting for YOUR reasons on to how he can defend against Sephs TK, what ability will he use to counter it? You're giving no reasons at all."

Mental wilpower, "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."


"If there are no plot reasons, NO, characters dont lie, game developers don't make characters lie for no reason at all, they will only lie if it has something to do with the story plot."

Game developers are not perfect and make mistakes (what do you think patches are for?).


"Yes he will try and succeed, Kuja has no defense against a speedblitz, Sephs TK, or his lifestream."

Whats that? OH....AN OPINION!!! your opinion.


"He obviously wanted to dress like that duh.. no one forced him to, so he did it at will."

Meaning he wanted to show off his "Perfect body", yes, but so would i.
Early life of Kuja is never shown, who are you to say that Garland never forced him to?


"i remember when he teleported the party he had to cast and shoot those beams up."

Was talking about desert palace, TP'in your self and other ppl = two different skills.


"Yes its powerful enough to destroy a planet, yet it couldn't break through Sephiroths TK, your not answering my question, how is Kuja going to break through it if Holy cant?"

HOLY WAS NOT AIMED AT SEPHY, it was aimed at meteor. Ok well cloud beat sephy in VII, yet the earth destroying "Holy" couldn't affect him. So are you also saying Cloud & Party>Holy? Please clarify.


"Yes but we can only say what we saw, we can't just assume that the planet blew up, the planet destruction is only the SURFACE, since thats the only thing we saw."

Finally you get my point for the most part. Why can't you accept the fact that Kuja MIGHT of annihilated terra, yo just can't accept it because your BIAS against Kuja. GET OVER IT!!!


"If theres NO storyline reason, Bugenhagen does NOT lie to the characters/player."

Thats like saying mini-game have no place in final fantasy, but they are AND have no part in the story line (for the most part)


"It doesn't matter, he stopped its movement and contained it period, making it unable to move, HOLY can destroy ANYTHING it judges evil, Bugenhagen stated that if it judged the planet evil, it would be the end of everything."

Soooo, Sephy -> Holy, Cloud and friends -> sephy = Cloud and co -> holy?


"I don't know what your even replying to here.. I really do feel like I'm arguing against a little kid"

Yeah, ppl that dont agree with you are kids and childish. Your will, your opinions and your "superior-ness" is NOT absolute.


"your counter-arguments are ridiculously weak, and alot of it doesn't even make sense"

LOL, your avoiding all my main points as though yours is all that matters,

-------------

So if sephy so fast and so powerful why, oh why did he not use any of them to evade clouds ominislash. Sure he was supprised but he is a trained soldier and should know how to react, wheres his TK? Where is the lifestream killing cloud if its so fast?

Originally posted by Terryc250


The picture says different
http://www.ffcompendium.com/chara/9kuja-s.jpg

Already countered.

Originally posted by Terryc250
http://www.ffcompendium.com/chara/9kuja-s.jpg
......Its a female belly dancers outfit


Its the outfit for a man with a "perfect body" who has a "narcissism" personality.
He dose not wear it to appear like a girl, he dose not do it because he desires to look like a girl.
He dose it to show-boat to everyone, just try and get over your jealousy.

Went back a lil and found this.... (is sorry for double post T.T)

Originally posted by Terryc250
It was said that kefka destroyed the world, but he didn't literally blow up the entire planet(if he did, he wouldve been dead, same with kuja), he did the same thing kuja did which was destroy the entire surface making it inhabitant, it even showed Kuja just destroying the surface

Anyway, he did it to a planet without the protagonists on, if the protagonists weren't on the planet Sephiroth was on, he would've transformed the entire planet into his personal vessel raiding other planets.


From this i read, kuja did all that dmg and not destroy the planet without the heros on the planet. WRONG!

Zidand beats kuja, kuja gets mad and trances, Kuja owns Zidane, kuja attacks the planet THEN Zidane recovers and gets the genomes and flees.

FYI, they don't show us what Zidane and Mikito see as they flee in the Invincible.
As you like to point out about the main story line, so will i.....Planet blows up instantly = no story ending. So, it would make sense Terra goes like the death star AFTER they get onboard, which again we don't see.

Before flaming ya counter argument, read and understand. In-game understanding and accuracy in texts (what they say) have improved since FF6, when mikito says he destroyed terra i suggest you take it literally. Kuja would not of gone with the planet either, he would of teleported like he dose in the game to memoria and killed everyone.

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
Went back a lil and found this.... (is sorry for double post T.T)



From this i read, kuja did all that dmg and not destroy the planet without the heros on the planet. WRONG!

Zidand beats kuja, kuja gets mad and trances, Kuja owns Zidane, kuja attacks the planet THEN Zidane recovers and gets the genomes and flees.

FYI, they don't show us what Zidane and Mikito see as they flee in the Invincible.
As you like to point out about the main story line, so will i.....Planet blows up instantly = no story ending. So, it would make sense Terra goes like the death star AFTER they get onboard, which again we don't see.

Before flaming ya counter argument, read and understand. In-game understanding and accuracy in texts (what they say) have improved since FF6, when mikito says he destroyed terra i suggest you take it literally. Kuja would not of gone with the planet either, he would of teleported like he dose in the game to memoria and killed everyone.
I meant the main protagonist planet, Gaia, or wutever FFIX calls it.. It was said that Kefka destroyed the world as well, but did he literally blow it up? No.

Originally posted by Terryc250
I meant the main protagonist planet, Gaia, or wutever FFIX calls it.. It was said that Kefka destroyed the world as well, but did he literally blow it up? No.

Kuja dose not attack Gaia, as you should know he attacked Terra.

Did u read what i said about text accuracy? Don't compare FF6 to FF9 please.
1) I'm saying its about 80-95%% likely Terra went Boom!!
2) Square-Enix, like other companys get more accurate in what they want the people to understand.
3) I noticed your not in denial about what i said, cant you bring your self to even say "you might be right?"
-----------------
Dose he still look like a "belly dancer"?

http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/thumb/c/c2/Dissidia_Kuja.JPG/150px-Dissidia_Kuja.JPG

Originally posted by IdiotGod
Terra wasn't dying. You've said this a few times now so I thought I'd point out you're completely wrong.

Garland wanted to replace Gaia's cicle of souls with Terra's cicle of souls, because Terra was dying or was already dead. Either way, Terra was a joke if compared to other planets of FF universe, and by that reason, Kuja destroying it's surface is not THAT impressive.




UltimaKuja, you say that "it's not only about fighting", but you have to understand that all threads on this forum are about fighting(only fighting), and all characters are suposed to be in bloodlust mode. Those rules only changes when the OP says so.

And unfortunatelly for you, FFVII is more popular than FFIX and have an entire Compilation about it. Therefore, Sephiroth have more feats and they make him stronger than Kuja. It's a little unfair I know, but it's reality. We have to accept it.

And for Kuja's own good, don't use the argument that "Bugenhagen was lying".
We only saw Kuja destroying buildings/towers of Bran-Bal. The notion that he destroyed a world is only based on what Mikoto said. If you say that Bugen was lying, I can say Mikoto was lying too. And that makes Kuja, at best, a building-buster(each one of his Ultimas was only destroying a building).
So, if you use the horrible logic that "characters lie withou any reason", you makes Trance Kuja look like a joke.



About Kuja "blowing-up" a planet... It's mentioned in the game and explained in the UOG, that Terra is located in the core of Gaia.
If Terra blew-up, Gaia should have exploded too.

A. No it wasn't dying. It was on the cusp of eternal prosperity in stasis awaiting the absorption of Gaia. This is told to use in Deilvert.
B. What planets in FF can travel through space and absorb other planets?
Yet Terra is a joke to them? Right.

Just like it should have blown up when Terra went inside Gaia?

Originally posted by IdiotGod
A. No it wasn't dying. It was on the cusp of eternal prosperity in stasis awaiting the absorption of Gaia. This is told to use iN Deilvert.

And Garland wanted to "absorb" Gaia, because Terra was going to die otherwise.



I was talking about size and the living-beings on it, not about what it could do. Terra was smaller than Gaia(and other planets from FF series) and only inhabited by Genomes. From what we know, it had only Bran-Bal and Pandemonium.
You cannot compare that, with the big planets full of life from the other FFs.

Originally posted by IdiotGod
Just like it should have blown up when Terra went inside Gaia?

That's ridiculous. Not all magic spells causes the same effect.

Garland used a spell with the purpose of merging two planets, not destroying them.
But Ultima is a destructive spell. It's purpose is to destroy. Therefore, If it blew-up Terra it would have exploded Gaia.

And Kuja didn't blew-up a planet, simply because all evidences points otherwise. The FMV showing Kuja destroying only the city of Bran-Bal, Kuja in the Crystal World stating that the process of assimilation between the two planets was still happening(something impossible if Terra was totally gone), the fact that there is no FMV or cutscene of a planet exploding, etc.

There is no evidence Kuja blew-up a planet. It's pure fanboy bullshit.

Originally posted by SHM

And for Kuja's own good, don't use the argument that "Bugenhagen was lying".
We only saw Kuja destroying buildings/towers of Bran-Bal. The notion that he destroyed a world is only based on what Mikoto said. If you say that Bugen was lying, I can say Mikoto was lying too. And that makes Kuja, at best, a building-buster(each one of his Ultimas was only destroying a building).
So, if you use the horrible logic that "characters lie withou any reason", you makes Trance Kuja look like a joke.


About Kuja "blowing-up" a planet... It's mentioned in the game and explained in the UOG, that Terra is located in the core of Gaia.
If Terra blew-up, Gaia should have exploded too.


I NEVER said he was lying, he was speculating and could of been wrong.

He destroyed the building at first because he was targeting the other genomes, he absolutely hated them and what they represented.

Mikito said something she ACTUALLY WITNESSED from the invincible, Bugen however was not. After the "Hero's" of FFIX left Gaia however Kuja Easily had the power to make it go boom.

Terra is pathetic? So now theres an official planet size meter? o.o
The planet its self was not dying, only the process where souls are reborn was the problem with Terra, which it could no longer support.

The process of assimilation of the Terran souls INTO Gaia, is what he is referring to.

Finally, i never said i was 100% certain he did blow it up, i said it was highly likely and an achievable goal for someone with his power.

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
Kuja dose not attack Gaia, as you should know he attacked Terra.

Did u read what i said about text accuracy? Don't compare FF6 to FF9 please.
1) I'm saying its about 80-95%% likely Terra went Boom!!
2) Square-Enix, like other companys get more accurate in what they want the people to understand.
3) I noticed your not in denial about what i said, cant you bring your self to even say "you might be right?"
-----------------

You don't understand how this forum works, you cannot claim ANYTHING without evidence, if you have no proof, then the only thing we know is what we saw, which is the surface being destroyed. You CANNOT i repeat CANNOT claim the planet blew up without EVIDENCE

Where are you basing your percentage on? You have no evidence, proof, or anything that even points to Terra blowing up.

So unless you have anything to backup your claims, no you are not right.

Mikito said Kuja destroyed Terra, so? It was said that Kefka destroyed the world, it DOES NOT mean he BLEW IT UP

I can destroy a painting by throwing mud on it or more paint on it, i dont have to burn it or rip it to shreds

Originally posted by Terryc250
You don't understand how this forum works, you cannot claim ANYTHING without evidence, if you have no proof, then the only thing we know is what we saw, which is the surface being destroyed. You CANNOT i repeat CANNOT claim the planet blew up without EVIDENCE

Where are you basing your percentage on? You have no evidence, proof, or anything that even points to Terra blowing up.

So unless you have anything to backup your claims, no you are not right.

Mikito said Kuja destroyed Terra, so? It was said that Kefka destroyed the world, it DOES NOT mean he BLEW IT UP

I can destroy a painting by throwing mud on it or more paint on it, i dont have to burn it or rip it to shreds

Ok, no evidence....no one has any evidence sephy can kill Kuja, all u have to go on is your belief from what you see him do to other people. If you wanna play it that way this thread cant have two different people from two different games, can it?

When FFIX gets re-released, ill have all the evidence i need. (maybe o.o)

Mikito was evacuating Terra on an air-ship, meaning she could see it on the screen or out a window, meaning what she said can be taken a lot more literal then what Kefka did.

The painting thing is inaccurate, a painting is a personal belonging to someone who made it, naturally they would say something like "you destroyed my work".

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
I NEVER said he was lying, he was speculating and could of been wrong.

If something is stated by a reliable source/character(like the "Guru" of FFVII), and is not contradicted by anything in the story, then it's true.



Speculation.



Mikoto saw the begining of the destruction, not the end of it. She was running away on the Invincible, not watching Kuja destroy the planet.

And if Terra "go boom", Gaia "go boom" too.



Nope. We don't need a "planet size meter" because we have "logic and common sense".
Terra was inside Gaia. So it's obvious the planet is smaller than Gaia.



From what I heard, the UOG states that Terra was dying. It gives a very good explanation about it. I could post what I know, if you want.



Without Terra, there is no crystal to contain the souls, no connection between Gaia and Terra(by the Iifa Tree) and therefore, no assimilation.



Again: If Terra "go boom", Gaia "go boom" too.

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
Ok, no evidence....no one has any evidence sephy can kill Kuja, all u have to go on is your belief from what you see him do to other people. If you wanna play it that way this thread cant have two different people from two different games, can it?

When FFIX gets re-released, ill have all the evidence i need. (maybe o.o)

Mikito was evacuating Terra on an air-ship, meaning she could see it on the screen or out a window, meaning what she said can be taken a lot more literal then what Kefka did.

The painting thing is inaccurate, a painting is a personal belonging to someone who made it, naturally they would say something like "you destroyed my work".

This is a versus forum debate, obviously theres no proof, thats why we debate and see who would win, so far theres SEVERAL ways Sephiroth can kill Kuja, and ZERO ways Kuja can kill Sephiroth. LISTEN, you CANNOT claim Terra blew up without proof, comprehend that please, Terra's surface was destroyed, thats what we saw so thats what it is, unless you have evidence to state otherwise.. if not, then NO.


So..? The whole entire party and hundreds of people witness'd Kefka destroy the planet.

Do you even know the definition of destroy? Destroy does NOT neccesarily mean BLOW UP.

Destroy means to reduce (an object) to useless fragments, a useless form, or remains, to injure beyond repair, etc, etc.


No it doesnt have to be MY painting it can be anyones, and people will still say its been destroyed.

Someone can steal a persons life saving, kick them out from their home, fire them from their job, and that person life can be "destroyed"

Okay, to the happiness of all Kuja fanboys here, let's assume he can blow-up a planet.
It's instant? No, he needs to rise his arms and shoot many Ultimas. Can he do that before Sephiroth appears behind him and cut his head off in less than a second? Nope.

All you say has a possibility of being true, i wont deny that.

But the main thing i hear from you is....
"oh sephys immortal",
"oh sephys unbeatable",
"oh sephys to good",
"oh my sephy can do this and that OH and this too",

I have stated multiple ways sephy could be defeated, you however ignore my arguments completely and return with one of the above phrases.

Contemplate this, no matter how strong sephy is, no matter how much he held back in AC, in the end clouds ominislash hit's sephy and beats him.

Now holding back on skills and abilities is one thing, but holding back on how much damage he can receive and endure is totally different. Which also indicates he DOSE have a breaking point and is not immortal as you tend to believe.

Unless of course your next argument is gonna be "he let himself be beaten, but will be back".

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
All you say has a possibility of being true, i wont deny that.

But the main thing i hear from you is....
"oh sephys immortal",
"oh sephys unbeatable",
"oh sephys to good",
"oh my sephy can do this and that OH and this too",
Never said ANY of that once, don't know where your getting that from


No you've never stated a SINGLE way Kuja can beat him. I'm still waiting..


Why are you bringing Cloud into this? Cloud has no place in this debate, i've already told you NUMEROUS times why Sephiroth lost to Cloud, your mind still has yet to comprehend it for some reason.


Kuja cant hit Sephiroth, because Sephiroth at 100% is faster then Loz, Sephiroth also has intangebility powers, no one said Sephiroth is immortal stop spouting nonsense.


Huh? No, Sephiroth will eliminate Kuja, Kuja really has no way of defeating Sephiroth.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Never said ANY of that once, don't know where your getting that from

Said no. Implied, yes.



LMAO every time i say a reason you dismiss it with some lame counter argument



Im using it to prove to you, cloud is like 10X? 20X? weaker then sephy yet his attack had the power to defeat him, at the VERY least you should admit then IF Kuja did hit him he would win. But your to dense to admit im right about something.



LMAO you dont comprehend what im saying anymore then i do you apparently.



There's not enough info on Kuja's speed feats, since he never had to use any. If you recall he was always one step ahead of his enemy, this demonstrates cunning and intelligence, which he can use against sephy.




Square-Enix send you e-mail saying that? Official source on Square-Enix webby say Sephy>Kuja in every way? Please post your OFFICIAL source of this info, oh wait you cant because its an opinion, a commonly shared opinion ill grant you. BUT AN OPINION NON THE LESS.

I changed my quoting, happy? -_-

I'm a little tired of this debate.

But anyway...

"There is no need for Terra to physically exist."

But there is a need for Terra's crystal to exist. The Iifa Tree is picking the souls of it, and inserting them inside Gaia's crystal. If Terra was gone, it's crystal would be gone too. The assimilation would stop.

The fact the assimilation was still happening, is a proof Terra(and it's crystal) was still there.
Kuja didn't blew-up a planet, and everything you have is speculation that contradicts information presented in the game.

And please, let's be real. Each of Kuja's Ultimas could only destroy a building. It's ridiculous to think he could explode an entire planet with those same Ultimas.
That's pure fanboyism.

Originally posted by SHM

And please, let's be real. Each of Kuja's Ultimas could only destroy a building. It's ridiculous to think he could explode an entire planet with those same Ultimas.
That's pure fanboyism.

Zzzzz, i told you he purposely aims at the building cause he wants to kill the genomes.

1)"Why should they live without me?", well no one answered him so he proceeded to kill them.
2) He hates everything about them, which is why he hides his tail.
3) you actually see the ultima blast homing on the buildings.
4) (lol Star wars quote) "Hate leads to suffering", in this care the genomes.

Play the game, if in doubt you are. and remember you should. ^_^

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
LMAO every time i say a reason you dismiss it with some lame counter argument
Uhh, you never gave a SINGLE reason how how Kuja can beat Sephiroth, I bet your next reply you wont give any reason either.



OmniSlash is a clear PIS move, and only hit him because Sephiroth was toying around, Sephiroth at 100% against Kuja would TK Kujas ultima just like he did Holy, or go intageable.



You're giving a lame excuse then suddenly Sephiroth will treat Kuja like he was Cloud which makes ZERO sense whatsoever.



Kuja has no speed feats, therefore he gets speedblitz'd




God.. you really are new to this forum aren't you? I never said its OFFICIAL that Sephiroth > Kuja, WHY DO YOU THINK WE'RE DEBATING? If it was official then this debate wouldn't exist, use your brain please. In terms of feats, and powers Sephiroth > Kuja, theres nothing Kuja can do to Sephiroth and theres many things Sephiroth can do to Kuja.

Originally posted by SHM
I'm a little tired of this debate.

But anyway...

"There is no need for Terra to physically exist."

But there is a need for Terra's crystal to exist. The Iifa Tree is picking the souls of it, and inserting them inside Gaia's crystal. If Terra was gone, it's crystal would be gone too. The assimilation would stop.

The fact the assimilation was still happening, is a proof Terra(and it's crystal) was still there.
Kuja didn't blew-up a planet, and everything you have is speculation that contradicts information presented in the game.

And please, let's be real. Each of Kuja's Ultimas could only destroy a building. It's ridiculous to think he could explode an entire planet with those same Ultimas.
That's pure fanboyism.

Certainly razed the entire surface of a planet.

Since when do Terra and Gaia have their own crystals?
Please provide dialog stating this from the game.



Actually, it perfectly supports it. Assimilation is about the souls, not Terra existing. When Gaian souls are all gone, Gaia becomes Terra. The Planet Terra does not exist and your presumption that blowing up Terra would destroy Gaia is baseless.



It's also ludicrous to suggest he could BDZ a planet going by the visuals. But we know he destroyed Terra so he obviously did one or the other but neither would match up with the visual calcs on his power.

Originally posted by IdiotGod
Since when do Terra and Gaia have their own crystals?
Please provide dialog stating this from the game.

It's in the FFIX UOG. That's the information I found about it:



more:



And finally:





Blowing up Terra would destroy it's crystal. The Assimilation would stop.



Then let's look at the most logical possibility. If he couldn't even BDZ a planet(going by the visuals), how could he have exploded one?!
By what the game showed us, it's more logical to believe he only BDZed it.
Lets not replace "logic" with "fanboyism", please.

Can I see a source of your translation?

Originally posted by IdiotGod
Can I see a source of your translation?

Unfortunately, no one translated the FFIX UOG. That's just some information from people who read it, that I found while wandering the internet.
But I'm sure you can find more information about it, if you go to the FFIX forum of GameFAQs.

Well, I'll wait till I see actual translation as opposed to what you said someone else said what they read...you cans ee why third-hand information is not used or trusted much on the net.

Originally posted by IdiotGod
Well, I'll wait till I see actual translation as opposed to what you said someone else said what they read...you cans ee why third-hand information is not used or trusted much on the net.

Whatever dude. My point still stands:

Originally posted by Terryc250
Uhh, you never gave a SINGLE reason how how Kuja can beat Sephiroth, I bet your next reply you wont give any reason either.

Its in a previous post. Ultima, FlareStar, Flare and Holy. Your whole "he tk'd holy" is out of context, he did that to an attack NOT aimed at him froma position that gave him an advantage to do so.
You cant prove it would work on any of Kujas attacks that are directly aimed at seph.





Fan-Boy Opinion, your making ALOT of assumptions on sephys behalf.




YOU can not tell me how EXACTLY sephy will react to Kujas challenge. Circumstances can change the flow of the battle easily. Furthermore i dont recall sephy ever facing anyone like Kuja, especially on appearance. He could mistaken him for another clone with weird fashion sense.




I'll use your argument to me on this one. Just because you dont see it dont mean it dont exist. You dont see it because of my previous reasons.




Because no one knows the outcome and its a popular subject. You make everything you say like its an official source, since its not then its an opinion, your opinion. Thanks for admitting that.




You referring to the lifestream again? sephy controls it, like a general controls a captain, if a captain beats a monster its NOT considered the generals feat. CORRECTION: Kuja>Sephy.



Theres just no reasoning with you, your clearly set on sephy no matter what anyone says. YOU, my friend are a kuja hater.

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
Its in a previous post. Ultima, FlareStar, Flare and Holy. Your whole "he tk'd holy" is out of context, he did that to an attack NOT aimed at him froma position that gave him an advantage to do so.
You cant prove it would work on any of Kujas attacks that are directly aimed at seph.

Uhh you do know Ultima is Kuja's strongest attack right? So if Ultima wont work, I don't see how any of his weaker attacks would. Tell me, whats the difference? Sephiroth stopped its movement, what would be the difference if it was aimed at meteor or Sephiroth?

And Sephrioth TK'ing Holy is IN context, it happened in the game..




Assumptions? Sephiroth was toying around, fact.. Sephiroth can go intangeable, fact, Sephiroth can TK Holy, fact. No assumptions whatsoever.




YOU can not claim Sephiroth will react to Kuja like he did with Cloud for NO reason at all, that makes no sense, thats just trying way too hard to find a reason for Sephiroth to lose.




Is there any evidence to suggest that he is extremely fast? If not then you cannot claim that.



I state everything FROM official source, Sephiroth powers, etc.. If you had a brain, you would realise that every forum vs battle doesn NOT have a an official source to who would win, thats why we DEBATE and give reasons on who would win for a winner.




Not sure how that makes any sense at all, lifestream is his power/weapon, just as his masamune blade is, How can Kuja>Sephiroth if he has no way of defeating him? And there are tons of ways Sephroth can defeat Kuja?



You are giving horrible reasoning on how Kuja can win, the most ridiculous reason i've ever heard on KMC, your reason is "Well Kuja will win because Sephiroth might treat him like Cloud(which makes no sense at all because Sephiroth has no reason to)"

Thats just as bad as saying Wolverine will lose to Black Cat because Wolverine might slip and twist his ankle.

Originally posted by Pyron_is_God
Since when do Terra and Gaia have their own crystals?


That something im pondering. The crystal in FFIX is in memoria, not Terra and not Gaia.

From what i read in the game that single crystal is the crystal to ALL life, EVERYWHERE.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Uhh you do know Ultima is Kuja's strongest attack right? So if Ultima wont work, I don't see how any of his weaker attacks would. Tell me, whats the difference? Sephiroth stopped its movement, what would be the difference if it was aimed at meteor or Sephiroth?

1) No way can you say ultima wont work, sephy fanboyism. TK'in holy (white magic) and Ultima(black magic) is totally diffrent.
2) Ultima is a projectile attack, as is holy. Flare and FlareStar are not, they materialise them selfs around the target then explode.



Dont matter, holy was NOT aimed at sephy. If holy was aimed directly at sephy you can not say he could hold it back. Its a theory.



Sephy can choose to do it again, FACT.



Kuja can teleport out of the way, FACT.




Im not trying hard at all, im pointing out alternative ways the battle can easily go that your just dismissing.



You cant claim that he can't either, just like you wouldn't if this was limited to the PSX version of sephy (which i know it's not).




That im not disputing at all.



1) My brain ain't the issue here, leave it out of this.
2) I know theres no official source for who would win, if there was you would not still debating about how sephy COULD win and Kuja would be declared the winner.
3) I give reasons, you forget them and give yours thinking you know best.



In AC the lifestream don't do anything sephy is just show-boating.
Ok, say Kuja broke sephys sword, unless thats made to be indestructible?
How? you ask, a spell aimed directly at his sword. Which spell? you ask, im not Kuja and so it ain't my decision.
FYI speedblitz ain't the ultimate attack and absolutely ZERO official sources say it cant be blocked.




LMAO wolverine, thats the funnest thing you said. And your giving horrid reasons how sephy can take all of kujas magic, you seem to think he can deflect anything like Darth Vader deflected Han Solo blaster shots.

Sephy treating kuja like cloud is only ONE point i made because it IS a possibility, regardless of how small it is.
That like saying Jack the ripper killed his first victim purposely then all the others where accidents, he did something NEW and liked it, then continued to do it.

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
1) No way can you say ultima wont work, sephy fanboyism. TK'in holy (white magic) and Ultima(black magic) is totally diffrent.
2) Ultima is a projectile attack, as is holy. Flare and FlareStar are not, they materialise them selfs around the target then explode.

If Sephiroth can block and contain Holy, he sure as hell can do it to Ultima, unless you can actually show me Flare,etc in a cinematic, you cannot take GAMEPLAY as how the attack works, if you use GAMEPLAY, then we can say Sephiroth shoots a planetary destroying supernova against Kuja, or heartless angel bringing him on the brink of death with a single word.


You don't understand do you? IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE, Sephiroth stopped its movement PERIOD, it doesn't matter if it was going North towards Sephiroth or South towards Meteor.


He has no reason to, therefore he wont.



Show me Kuja's teleport plz, prove to me that its instant, Sephiroth with a stare has Kuja locked.


Anyone can tell you thats a ridiculous reason.



Well if theres no evidence or feats to back him up, we can't use it in a debate, you really need to undersatnd how debates work.


No you give ridiculous reasons, the only actual real threat is Kujas ultima, however that can be stopped quite easily. Kuja on the other hand has little ways he can defend against Sephiroth.



Dont' state things without any evidence, Sephiroths sword he can create out of the lifestream, if you can't name a spell thats capable of destroying Sephiroths sword, then he can't do it, in debates we dont ASSUME things, we go by evidence and feats.

Speedblitz works unless you can actually name something Kuja can do to defend it, without assumption.




If Sephiroth can block Holy, he sure as hell can stop Ultima.


Its just as likely as Kuja doing the same thing to Sephiroth, or any character1 doing it to character2.

Originally posted by Terryc250
If Sephiroth can block and contain Holy, he sure as hell can do it to Ultima, unless you can actually show me Flare,etc in a cinematic, you cannot take GAMEPLAY as how the attack works, if you use GAMEPLAY, then we can say Sephiroth shoots a planetary destroying supernova against Kuja, or heartless angel bringing him on the brink of death with a single word.

1) Ultima is black magic, Holy is White magic. Black magic (Ultima) is MUCH stronger and destructive then any white magic variant (Holy), that is a final fantasy FACT.

2) There is absolutely no CGI of flare, even in FFX. But you fail to understand magic works practically the same EVERY time its used, Game battle OR CGI. SO Flare/Fstar will work as i stated.

3) Heartless angle from KH? so much for it non-canon and non-relevant.
Either way it works the same as 'Death' and Kuja has full resistance to that, THAT is officially stated.

4) Supernova dose NOT destroy F-All, Why would he need the black materia if it could? Furthermore 'Supernova' is an ability NOT magic. Bad example.



"Sephiroth is holding back holy", that dose NOT say he stopped it completely.



Theory.


I dont work for Square i cant just create a CGI of kuja teleporting, play the game and see it for your self.


-Waits for someone other then you to say it-



There's not exactly much anywhere on Kuja for me to use, all i can use is whats in FFIX



White magic and Black work differently, prove he can stop black magic like white. Again, Ultima is more powerful then holy.

,

Like your direct evidence that speedblitz would work on kuja like his other weaker foes?



I didn't name it cause i dun wanna have to keep saying it, Ultima. Hell even flares explosion could work on it, but Ultima WOULD.



I suggest you remember that one, your assuming alot too.



Square-Enix has not given me anything i can specifically name, but your assuming an attack he used on a weakling would work on him.
Since apart from dissidia there is nothing present or upcoming to give an exact answer (yes i know dissidia ain't canon).



LMAO, your betraying your self. Thats one hell of an assumption, and you have the nerve to lay into me about doing it?




Wrong, so very very WRONG. Kuja dose not display that personality EVER.
He is clever, intelligent, cunning and at no point dose he play around like that show-boat sephiroth.

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
1) Ultima is black magic, Holy is White magic. Black magic (Ultima) is MUCH stronger and destructive then any white magic variant (Holy), that is a final fantasy FACT.
No your wrong, Holy is the antithesis of the Black Materia, its the only thing powerful enough to stop it, its capable of destroying an entire planet just as meteor is.


No its not, so if Sephiroth used Supernova, you would be seeing planets exploding over and over? Gameplay is not the same as a cinematic/movie.


Heartless Angel is from both FFVII and KH, no Heartless Angel has never not worked before, it is a 100% hit, htis everyone from cloud to tifa, to even Sora from KH, theres no way to avoid it after he casts.


He used Meteor to create a wound, not to destroy the planet genius. Supernova is a summon.


He stopped it from being able to move at all, yes he stopped it completely.



Theory? Wow.. just wow, i've never dealt with anyone at your intelligence on this board before.. Sephiroth will treat Kuja just like he treats EVERYONE else, which means he will kill him instantly.. unless there is a reason, but is there a reason? No.


Find me a video of him teleporting, you're suppose to provide evidence, if you don't have any proof that his teleporting is instant, then it won't work in this debate.


Well if there isn't enough evidence that Kuja is powerful in FFIX, then don't put him on Sephiroths level.


How do they work differently? White magic is capable of destroying everything just as Black magic is, How is ultima more powerful then holy? Because Ultima destroyed the surface of terra? Holy is capable of doing that to GAIA.


If you can't give me any evidence that Kuja is capable of defending against it, then yes it will work.


Elemental damage has never really worked against Sephiroth, and Ultima is not more powerful then Holy, unless you can prove this, don't spout nonsense.



No everything i state about Sephiroth is facts and logic, you have been just assuming things about both Kuja and Sephiroth, you have not provided any evidence for anything.



Exactly, there is NOTHING, you cannot say these ridiculous things during a debate, if there is NOTHING, then that means there is NOTHING. You cannot claim "well maybe Kuja has something up his sleeve he hasnt shown yet" no you cannot claim those sort of things in a debate.



What has Ultima shown that Holy isn't capable of doing? Thats right, nothing.




And Sephiroth only did it once to Cloud and had his reasons for it, everyone else he instantly owned them, please comprehend that in your slow-mind.

Originally posted by Terryc250
No your wrong, Holy is the antithesis of the Black Materia, its the only thing powerful enough to stop it, its capable of destroying an entire planet just as meteor is.

But the planet its self is not evil, so it wont. Sephiroth was evil and it didn't.

If Holy>Meteor and Sephy>Holy, why didn't sephy just wound the planet himself.




Supernova is NOT a magic spell. Well at least we agree on that.



How abilities work against hero's all depend on what resistances they can learn in the game, sora dose not have one. ppl like sephy and kuja are automatically given total resistance to abilities like that.



OK, 'genius' if its a summon how comes you cant use it with master summon materia? Supernova is an ABILITY.



He stopped it from proceeding, like a bouncer in a door way. He did not fully contain it in a glass jar.



How i handle a debate and what my current I.Q is what it comes to real life stuff is totally irrelevant.
Fact, none of sephys previous opponents where as strong as kuja.
Fact, up until he fought cloud in the reactor and got OWNED, he had never been beaten before or seen feats of that strength.

See the similarities and why he could be left vulnerable by his arrogance, which has caused he to be beaten before, FACT!



Refrain from posting such crap, i have given multiple reasons.




LOL it doesn't work because you cant see it? Don't be so cheap and buy IX and play it. Also there are no videos of it cause it don't take place in a CGI.



1) im not, im putting him above lil sephiroth level, at least in sheer power.
2) NO evidence that kuja is powerful? You are totally mad, now you think he is powerless?
3) This video proves TWO things, ONE: Kuja dose have power, TWO: watch the blasts, they are quite clearly aimed at the building NOT the planet.
View and learn.



They work differently cause they are different types of magic. White magic (holy) "will destroy anything it considers evil", 1) Bugen was WRONG, bringing me back to a point i made before about him being wrong. 2) Either way ya look at it that dose not mean it will OR can destroy everything. Ultima on the other hand WILL destroy ANYTHING its aimed at.



1) You can't give me evidence it will work on someone like him, unlike 'just some random guy'.
2) You don't know for a fact he even would use it.



Well, taken from wikipedia "Flare, a generally non-elemental spell which appeared as Fire-based". This also means the same for Flare-star.
More fabulous evidence from wikipedia, "Ultima, a non-elemental spell that generally appears as the most powerful offensive spell accessible".



Ask and ye shall receive.



Well you cant claim "sephiroth the high and mighty (who im a fanboy of) will just defeat kuja with ease".



Nothing? Hmmmm, being a total kick arse move that Kuja has complete control of.
Being able to attack the whole party, where as Holy is a single target attack.
Hell, play any FF game and i guarantee Ultima dmg>Holy dmg. (less its a stupid zombie or other undead monster where holy gets a damage multiplier).



Comprehend that sephy was human(or at least partly), thus thinks like one.
If he dose something and enjoys it, like toying with cloud, he WILL do it again. His reason would be that of fun of enjoyment.

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
But the planet its self is not evil, so it wont. Sephiroth was evil and it didn't.

No Bugenhagen said, once Holy is unleashed it could be the end of EVERYTHING, depending on what it judges.


Holy is = to Meteor, and Sephiroth was able to contain Holy with his willpower, Sephiroth didnt have the power output to create the wound himself during FFVII, just because he has powerful willpower to hold back destruction, doesn't mean his willpower can wound the entire planet



What difference does it make? Gameplay is gameplay and cannot be taken literal.


It works unless you can prove it doesn't, you cant just assume "Well Kuja mightve found some kinda item that protects him against that" No that doesn't work in debates.


How come you didn't get Bahamut Retsu? Or Bahamut SIN? Its because Master Summon gives you the summons in the GAME, not the WORLD, duh.


He stopped it from moving, what difference does it make?


Don't compare CC Sephiroth to AC Sephiroth, CC Sephiroth was still a human, AC Sephiroth isn't.


Again, thats only to CLOUD, no one else.


And i've told you OVER and OVER that its only to Cloud, because he had reasons to, NO ONE ELSE, why is that so hard to understand?


No unless i see proof that its instant i assume its similar to the way he teleported zidane and co, by casting.



1) Lifestream > Ultima
2) I didn't say that, read more proper please, i said if theres not enough evidence that hes powerful, you cannot assume he is (in response to you saying that theres not enough evidence in FFIX)
3) I've seen that video, it seems to be Kujas only impressive feat. but its nothing Sephiroth isnt capable of doing.



Bugenhagen is wrong? On what basis do you say that? None? read this and comprehend it into your mind: CHARACTERS DO NOT LIE IF THERE IS NO PLOT REASONS WHATSOEVER there is NO reason for a character to lie, especially one who is basically the guru on of the planet.

Bugenhagen says it can destroy everything, so that means it can.

Ultima wont be destroying anything when Sephiroth TKs Kuja, he wont even beable to cast it.



Like i said, it works on him because there are NO evidence that suggest it DOESN'T, Kuja is NOT fast

2) what you just said makes no sense, thats like saying Kuja wont use ultima, or any of his powers for that matter, we don't know for a fact he will.


If we can use gameplay moves in this debate, then Kuja is definately screwed.


Give me evidence that Kuja can counter a speedblitz, and no don't reply saying "Give me evidence that Sephiroth can speedblitz Kuja" Sephiroth can speedblitz anyone even Zack who is capable of dodging machine gun bullets like nothing.

Give me evidence that Ultima can break through Sephiroths TK even if Holy isn't able to, and no dont reply saying "Well one is white magic and one is black, and Bugenhagen is LYING!" No, white magic is capable of doing the same destruction as black materia, and no.. just no.. bugenhagen isn't lying.

Give me evidence that Kuja is capable of surviving the lifestream, and don't say "Well Kuja is from another world and hes a sorcerer!" Lifestream works on ANYTHING, from people to giant meteors.

Give me REAL eviddence, use examples from the game, or feats hes accomplished, etc


I do i give reasons, unlike you.



being a "kick ass" move means nothing, Holy is a single target attack? Holy covered the entire continent in a second.

Stop using gameplay from other FF games as examples, Ultima in FF7 is NOTHING compared to meteor or holy, even dragons had the attack, every magic varies from game to game, Holy in FF7 can cause planetary destruction as well as Meteor.



AC Sephiroth is not human at all, he doesnt do it because he "enjoys" it, he wanted to torment CLOUD, just CLOUD, no not Zack, no not Tseng, no not aeris, no not the other people hes killed, JUST CLOUD, and NO NOT KUJA.

Sephiroth's Negative Lifestream is weaker than the real thing.
And TK? I guess TK would help against Neo Exdeath too? Funny shit.

Have we at least gotten off the transvestite nonsense?

Originally posted by Terryc250
No Bugenhagen said, once Holy is unleashed it could be the end of EVERYTHING, depending on what it judges.

Then it didn't judge sephy evil?




Thought meteor couldn't destroy a planet only wound it. If holy is equal then it cant either.



Well good for him, but he still got his arse kicked.



I did not say that and you dam well know it. By default Kuja WOULD have resistance to attacks like heartless angle, just like sephy would, just like Seymour from FFX would and just like sin would.




Or because the summons didn't exist back then, if sephys attack was a summon, it would be apart of the master summon materia. It was not so it is not.



For the last god damn time, YES he did it to cloud and no one else, BUT THAT DON'T MEAN HE WOULDN'T IN FUTURE!!



LOL you don't even see him cast it, the light goes from ya feet to ya head in a split second and ya already gone. Furthermore casting it on someone else always tend to take longer then self-teleportation.



YAY, the word lifestream pops up again, this is Sephy and Kuja not the lifestream.
WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE THEY HAVE THIS BATTLE WILL HAVE ANY LIFESTREAM FOR SEPHY TO USE.



Lying and misinterpreting are two different things.



Now i remember holy beat sephy and we all sat down and had drinks at the beach.
NO, Holy couldn't get past sephy, yes? then it can't destroy everything, yes? SOOOO Bugenhagen was WRONG! Y-E-S!


Assumptions are the other of screw-ups and that my friend was one big overrated assumption. GET IT PAST YA THICK HEAD, There - is - no, repeat NO, evidence - tk -works -on - Kuja - or -Ultima.
Though i would say it slowly for you.



Correction there is no in-game reason for him to NEED to be fast, so you don't see it.
Although this is a little weak, Garland dose not need to cast to teleport, since he and Kuja seem to have similar powers LOGICALLY it is sound to assume that Kuja is the same way since he made him.


Now you get it a lil, eh? we don't know and that's the whole frigging problem.



Mmmhmmm, says you. Actually ya just reminded me Kuja has demi, that won't kill but can help. Unless he got immunity to that too? Or he could use that to make sephy drop his sword, unless his sword is super glued into place?



ZZZ, he matrix Sephy speedblitz -_-
Ok, back to seriousness now, I can not give you what don't exist.
Now, give me REAL, HARD evidence sephy can ACTUALLY TK Ultima.
Dun go saying "oh he can tk holy from FFVII so he can tk ultima" cause that's BULL.



1) I'm past bugen, right or wrong dun matter in this argument.
2) Holy is its own element, Ultima is NON-Elemental which means it CAN NOT be blocked by ANY means. Also your forgetting Flare which is also NON-Elemental, an advantage flare has is that it is NOT a projectile attack.
Your basically saying that a fire and water spells would both work the same against a fire flan AND THEY WON'T, neither will holy and Ultima/Flare.
Elemental weakness and strengths play a pivotal role in all Final Fantasy games.



GET OVER THE DAMN LIFESTREAM ALREADY, Sephy vs Kuja dose not = Kuja vs lifestream. This battle would have to take place somewhere neutral to be fair so how can you even say that place has any lifestream to be used.



You easily dismiss my evidence as crap, when your "Evidence" is based on nothing more. "sephy can tk kuja and ultima" wheres ya quote from square on that?



EVERY Final Fantasy game "Holy" has been in it has been the same move with different animations, it has ALWAYS been a single target attack, like it has always been effective against the undead.
Meteor = Big, Holy = Big.



Hmmm, nothing? So it dose not beat the party TWO times? Ultima in Final Fantasy by definition means its IS the ULTIMATE ATTACK (magicly speaking.)
If the planet and not Kuja used Ultima, meteor would be nothing at all. It would of blasted through it like the sister ray through weapon.
Another basic about Final Fantsy, Magic damage is based on the strength of its user.
Whole planet using holy -> Kuja using holy.



Magic is VII is based on what materia you have, you don't actually ever learn it. LOL you think if the whole planet of Gaia used Ultima on a meteor it wouldn't blow it up?



AC sephiroth still THINKS like a human, regardless of what he has become, thus human style logic IS applicable.
Zack was weak, Tseng was weak and Aeris was, you guessed it, weak.
You have already said yourself kuja is NOT weak. Who the hell are you to determine what sephys motives would be if they ever locked in battle.
Truth be told, you DON'T know shet, i DON'T know shet and anyone else reading this, again you guessed it, DON'T know shet.
But we both make the best arguments we can anyway.

Originally posted by Pyron_is_God
Have we at least gotten off the transvestite nonsense?

Unless terry goes back to it, although ya just had to remind him.
However i think my previous argument about him not being one shut terry up about it. ^_^

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
Then it didn't judge sephy evil?

Yes it did, however it could not get past Sephiroth powerful willpower.


Meteor is capable of destroying planets yes, its been stated before its also been stated that Holy can as well, Sephiroth used it however, to create a giant wound in the planet, the population would be eliminated, btw if that meteor hit Terra, Terra would most likely be gone, since its much smaller then Gaia.


By default they get resistance to it? Wtf? Says what? You cannot claim baseless things like that.


Summons didn't exist back then? What are you talking about? Those summons are from BEFORE FFVII and After FFVII, they sure as hell existed, Master summon gives you every AVAILABLE summon in the GAME.


No offense, but you must be under the age of 14 to be saying that kind of thing in a debate. I honestly don't even know why i'm debating against you, you should be embarassed by your statements for the last time, HE HAD A REASON TO DO IT TO CLOUD, NO he does not think its fun and he'll do it again, HE HAD A REASON TO, listen, REASON. Meaning THATS WHY HE DID IT, so if he does not have a REASON then HE WONT DO IT, got it?


Yes i recall him doing somethin similar to ultima, it was not instant teleporting, casting is casting, its not instant.



Are you stupid? Lifestream is Sephiroths weapon/power just as his masamune is, just as the Soul Reaver is Kains weapon/power. Sephiroth can summon it at will, its apart of him.


No , you are saying that Bugenhagen is saying UNTRUE things, theres no plot reason for him to, therefore he didn't. Bugenhagen represents the game developers words to explain how the planet works in FFVII, and the lifestream, and what the Black and white materia is for. Theres always a character like that in just about every game, no they don't say untrue things.


Bugenhagen was referring to the PLANET, if Holy was unleashed it can destroy everything (on the planet), Sephiroth however STOPPED it.


TK works on EVERYTHING, theres no reasons for it to NOT work on anything, thats like saying Kuja's ultima wont work on Sephiroth because well.. hes Sephiroth

Sephiroth willpower TK has worked on everything from every member of the FF7 party, Holy, to bringing down buildings, theres no reason it wont work on Kuja or ultima.



If he never showed any speed feats in-game, then he has ZERO speed feats, meaning you CANNOT prove he can defend against a speedblitz, so Kuja loses on that part.

Garland created Kuja, just because their powers are similar it does NOT mean Kuja's power is identical, hence the word "similar" and not "identical" btw can you show me Garlands instant teleporting?


again, stop using gameplay moves, Demi cannot even be compared to heartless angel, pale horse or supernova, his sword might drop fine, then Sephiroths will bring Kuja on the brink of death, and he will die as the planets are exploding.


They are similar destruction attacks, thats why it should work, its like saying Zack dodged machine gun fire from a soldier in FF7, so he should beable to dodge machine gun fire from a soldier in FF8.



What does the type of element have to do with being locked in TK? The element has nothing to do with it, again stop using gameplay, you do know gameplay mechanics does not count for ANYTHING in KMC debates right?its because its not the same, example, Fire in FFVIII gameplay looks like its not projectile, and it just appeared at the enemy, however, in the actual cinematic intro you can clearly see it was a projectile shot.


Wtf is wrong with you? Lifestream is Sephiroths power, why would we take out Sephiroths power? Makes no sense, a neutral place where both there powers are in effect.


Who said i had a quote from square on that? wow.. debating against slowminded-kids gets frustrating, there is NO way Kuja can protect himself from Sephiroths TK, can you give me evidence he can? NO (and please don't reply saying "well he might have a trick up his sleeve that he hasn't shown yet" or even anything similar to that, if he hasn't shown it, he doesn't have it)

If Sephiroth was able to stop Holy for months, then he sure as hell can stop Ultima in this fight, and no don't say "Well Ultima doesn't have an element" the type of element has NOTHING to do with it.

No every HOLY is different, just as ultima is, Ultima in FF7 couldnt even be compared to lots of the summons, and is NOTHING compared to Holy or Meteor.

Magic differs from game to game, understand that, its not all the same.


wtf.. that has NOTHING to do with it, first of all it wasnt the "planet" that used Holy (dont know where you got that from)

Second of all the black and white materia (holy and meteor) were the ultimate magics of the game, meaning, the most powerful. (BY FAR)



The planet did NOT use any magic, i dont know where your getting this from.



Motives have nothing to do with this debate, it was never stated by the thread creator thus cannot be randomly applied, you really are new to these forums are you? Zack is definately not weak, taking on an army by himself, dodging bullets like nothing, Unless Kuja has any feats to back up your claims, you cannot claim it on assumption. Kuja gets speedblitz'd, TK'd to death, or disintegrated by the lifestream.

Originally posted by Pyron_is_God
Sephiroth's Negative Lifestream is weaker than the real thing.

Your point?



Are you comparing Ultima with the Void?! Funny shit.

The Void sucks up cities after a time. Kuja destroys the surface of planets after a time.

Originally posted by Pyron_is_God
The Void sucks up cities after a time. Kuja destroys the surface of planets after a time.

One is a hole that sucks/teleport cities to another dimension. The other is an energy attack(many energy attacks actually) that can be dodged or stoped.

Then like i said sephy>holy = holy CAN'T destroy everything.




OK, ok. chill, meteor wouldn't be in this fight anyway so im not arguing over it.



I have at no point denied it could.




The whole point is that if they was weak to that in the movie or game it would be over way to easy. Since if this battle was real it would share that simple mechanic, Kuja would be immune. That's why cloud don't go get his spare 'Death' materia and use it on sephiroth.



Was actually quoting on the fact FFVII came out first and in THAT game they don't exist till a follow up game.
That point aside, like you said it has every summon in the GAME, supernova is in the GAME and dose NOT become usable with master summon.


Because i don't roll over in defeat at your little post im 14? Yes, i am a Kuja fan-girl, and its my responsibility to do whatever i can do defend Kuja from a sephy fanboy in this debate. ESPECIALLY one that has a hard time even listening to what im saying and ignoring it.


Can't stand the heat? Get out of the kitchen. Personal attacks won't force me to submit either.



Sure, i already knew Sephys reason, i got that loud and clear.
"He dose not this its fun", show me dialog from sephy saying those words please.
His arrogant personality is reason enough to me. just like sephy gets new powers in every appearance he makes, his personality will change too. Maybe small, maybe large difference but it will.



Ultima and teleporting are TOTALLY different, OMG are you being intentionally dense or what? One is an attack spell the other is a passive ability, usable at will.
Dose Kuja ever say, "I can teeleport you or myself but it takes awhile to do?" NO! So your assuming other wise, when its quite clear in the game its instant.


To bad he didn't use it in AC then, ain't it. You really think he would resort to using the lifestream on ONE person? He was gonna use it on the whole planet, yes.
But you really think he would use it on a single individual? He IS arrogant and would think its beneath him.
Furthermore, he has never used it before, on an individual or party, so don't go claiming he would now.




Bugen = 100% correct, hurray for you.
Bugen = <100% correct, hurray for me.
Either way ya look at it, It dose nit affect this particular engagement.



Holy> Everything (including sephy) or Sephy > Holy. You can't have it both ways.



Ultima might work as you described, i can accept that since neither of us don't know, why is it so hard for you to accept the same of sephys TK? TK and Ultima have NEVER clashed together, so who are you to determine the outcome based on its previous feats?
Don't forget while sephy was holding holy back he was being constantly supplied with mako energy by Hojo, the same won't be true in this battle.



Every member of FFVII > Ultima? NO WAY!
Brining down buildings > Ultima? Ummm, nope try again.
Holy > Ultima? Conceivable but i don't share that opinion of yours.
Ultima = Ultimate, Ultimate = (from dictionary.com) "maximum; decisive; conclusive: the ultimate authority; the ultimate weapon."
And, "not to be improved upon or surpassed; greatest; unsurpassed"
Also, " the best, greatest, or most extreme of its kind"
Do you get it yet?


You betray yourself again, tifa = human and needs to eat, yet we don't see her eat, dose that mean she don't? YOU said that your self, don't go backing down on me now.



Like you also said, some things you have to take on "Logic", that is pretty good "Logic" from where im sitting.
Garland Instant teleports are not in any CGI, though he dose it a good 15 times effortlessly. I can no more show you that then you can show sephy Speedblitzing Kuja, since no video exists.



Again stop being so high and mighty easily dismissing it, either way demi by definition is a gravity attack, Gravity + Big sword = HEAVY, big sword. Heartless angel only takes you to 1hp in KH, NOT FFVII, from what i remember.
What planets exploding? If what ever planet OR location they are on explodes, Sephy dies to. Unless your saying Sephy will pull a DBZ and "weather" the explosion like freiza was?

KH -> sephy = beatable.
KH2 -> Sephy = beatable,
FFVII -> Sephy = beatable,
FF:AC -> sephy = beatable,
From that, what Say's sephy is immortal and capable of such a feat, do tell. If that was the case jenova would never of been stopped and FFVII would cease to exist.



Apparently you don't understand very well, Flare and Ultima are NOT anything like Holy. That's like saying Curega and holy are the same, as they are both of the holy element.
Ultima + Flare = Non-elemental, unstoppable and unblockable damage, FACT.
Show me sephy TKing Non-elemental energy blasts, or a quote from square.



Until you prove other wise, it has everything to do with it. You cant prove TK can contain something NON-Elemental, meaning until you prove it, it can't



You do know stuff you read in Fan-Fic's dose not count for anything right? Cause That's what your trying to use, "I say it so That's how it works".



This at very best would have comparisons from FFVII and FFIX, FFVIII is not apart of this at all. If you cant make an argument from the information on AC and IX, which is what this is about then don't.


Well the way you say things, it sure made me think you did.
But i guess That's what your best at, making ppl think this its an official source so they shut up.


wow debating against old farts who can't tell when there beaten gets quite dull.



Sephy using tk on other ppl from the FFVII universe dose not mean its totally all powerful and has no weakness or vulnerabilities.
Allso you didn't see how Kuja stopped (cleyra's?) protective sand barrier, but we all still know he was the one to do it.

Trance Kuja >>> Sephiroth, plain and simple.

Originally posted by Terryc250
No every HOLY is different, just as ultima is, Ultima in FF7 couldnt even be compared to lots of the summons, and is NOTHING compared to Holy or Meteor.

Already addressed that in my previous post, try not to miss it.




My respect for your I.Q level is slowly diminishing HOLY is ALWAYS the same. it is ALWAYS holy elemental, it is ALWAYS effective against the undead and is ALWAYS a single target attack.
The only change is the animation.



Well the same be true for ultima in FFIX, again previous post has it all.


Who Kuja and sephy are and what they think, fell and plan to do can't be decided by the thread creator either. Its who they are.


He did all that in a sequel to FFVII, if he couldn't do them things he never would of made it to the FFVII time line. But either way ya look at it he got owned by weakest ever sephy.



Sephiroth get pounded into the ground like alexandria by the invincible (which kuja has control of), Bashed in to a building by his silver dragon and disintegrated by ultima.

You get your way of how this goes, so i get mine.

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
Trance Kuja >>> Sephiroth, plain and simple.

Repeating this over and over again will not make it true.

Originally posted by SHM
Repeating this over and over again will not make it true.
Well neither will saying "Sephy >> Kuja" make that true either.
I don't say it over and over again either, we are all entitled to an opinion and that's mine.

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
Then like i said sephy>holy = holy CAN'T destroy everything.

It can destroy everything on the planet if not stopped, however, Sephiroth is capable of stoping it.


Which means Meteor =/> Ultima, so Meteor = Holy, which means Holy =/> Ultima, therefore, Sephiroths TK can stop Ultima.


Thats why you cannot spout GAMEPLAY nonsense in a character debate, GAMEPLAY is not accurate to a real fight, thats why you are not allowed to use it in a debate.


I said AVAILABLE summon, supernova is only available to Sephiroth no one else, theres no way of getting it in the game, Master summon gives you every AVAILABLE summon in the GAME, not world.


No because you don't know how to properly debate.


First of all he does not have an "arrogant" personality, if he toyed around with Cloud for fun, THEN he could be called arrogant, but he didn't, he had his reasons to torment him, and wtf does "He dose not this its fun" suppose to mean? Honestly half the things you say don't make sense, you cannot assume his personality will all of a sudden change for no apparant reason.


Can you not read? I said he casted something SIMILAR to Ultima which made the party teleport, do you know what similar means? I'm not "assuming" I'm basing it because the only thing ive seen isKuja teleporting party members because you refused to show me a video of him teleporting, and no i'm not going to buy and beat the game just so i can watch Kuja teleport.


KMC Battles are each character fighting all out UNLESS stated otherwise, meaning they will be using all of their attacks, you can't even give me a reason to say Sephiroth is arrogant.


Bugenhagen IS 100% correct.


Holy is not > Everything, Holy can destroy the planet yes.



Ultima will work as i described unless there is evidence that it wouldn't, TK works on EVERYTHING. Swapping worlds doesn't make a difference, Just like how Zack can dodge bullets in FFVII world, he should beable to dodge bullets in FFVIII world.

And I don't know what your talking about with Hojo supplying Mako to Sephiroth, but its wrong, Sephiroth held it back with his own sheer willpower.


Ultima Magic, there are things above "magic" such as summons, Holy is faaaaaar above Ultima in FFVII and so is Meteor.

Where did i state that every member is > Ultima?


No, but the statement that shes a human means she needs to eat, if it was stated that she was an alien, and we never see her eat, then its possible that she doesn't need to eat.



Again, show me; and just because they have similar powers doesn't mean they are identical, for example if i had a son, he grew up with similar talents as me, it does not mean he will have identical talents as me.



Again, STOP USING GAMEPLAY, gameplay does NOT work in debates, if Kuja can use demi, then Sephiroth can use Supernova, and blow up planets and it does NOT harm Sephiroth because summons NEVER can harm the caster, and YES Heartless Angel brings you to 1hp in EVERY game, KH, KH2, FF7


No one ever said Sephiroth is immortal don't know where you heard that from, but in terms of feats and abilities, Sephiroth is more likely to beat Kuja.



Again, what does the element have to do with ANYTHING? It can be Fire, it can be water, it can be a non-elemental piece of brick, TK stops EVERYTHING that is matter.


Non-Elemental means you cannot be RESISTANT against it, it CAN however be blocked, evidence is that barrier can reduce the damage, TK has nothing to do with what the element is, TK is basically an extremely strong barrier around the force.


No these are general rules for KMC debating you noob, everyone knows it. You can ask anyone if gameplay means NOTHING because gameplay is INACCURATE.

Its an EXAMPLE, the point is to show that GAMEPLAY and CINEMATIC are different, GAMEPLAY is inaccurate, just because you see fire appearing out of no where in gameplay doesn't mean it actually does.


No i state things with evidence, words from the creators, or straight facts, unlike you.



Beaten? Haha you're basically embarassing yourself.



Again, you can't state that without any evidence, if Kuja never showed anything remotely close to evading it, then he can't, you cant state he can without evidence.


Can the protective sand barrier stop a planet destroying attack? No, try again.


You're very much in denial, you can say it all you want but unless you give some evidence, Sephiroth has many ways to kill Kuja, Kuja has zero.

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
Already addressed that in my previous post, try not to miss it.

My respect for your I.Q level is slowly diminishing HOLY is ALWAYS the same. it is ALWAYS holy elemental, it is ALWAYS effective against the undead and is ALWAYS a single target attack.
The only change is the animation.
Wow... just wow... have u even played any other FF games besides IX? Alright, ill make this simple, YOU ARE WRONG, and ill give you an example right now that you cannot make any more excuses about, Meteor in FF6, not too powerful, attacks 1 enemy. Meteor in FF7, destroys planets, diminishes populations. Holy in most FF's attacks enemies, heals party, Holy in FF7 capable of erasing everything on the planet ( and no, the planet did not summon holy, planets can not use materia rofl)



You cannot claim things for what Sephiroth will do, we are seeing who is more powerful here, the more powerful one will be the thread winner.


Sephiroth in his weakend form was still not one to mess with.


Lifestream > Alexandia
Monsters are nothing to even the weakest form of Sephiroth
Sephiroths TK > Kuja and Ultima
Checkmate.

Be in denial all you want, but you probably even know by now that Sephiroth > Kuja.

Lets just say Sephiroth wins and have it as that.

Originally posted by Terryc250
It can destroy everything on the planet if not stopped, however, Sephiroth is capable of stoping it.

Sephy stopping it = it can NOT destroy everything




You wanna compare a massive hunk of a rock to ultima?
The spell 'Meteor' draws an actual meteor to the planet causing it to collide, the actual spell dose nothing but push the meteor in the right direction.
The spell 'Ultima' is an energy attack created by the caster and launches its self at its target and is self homing.
Correct me if I'm wrong but is that not A>B>C logic?


Fine, w/e you say. Square should of clearly stated for ppl like you.... 'No actual planets are destroyed during this summon'.




Correction: Based on the limited facts about Kuja from FFIX and Square i am forced to debate as best i can, including stating alternative way this battle could end.
Unlike Sephy who you would find it hard NOT to find any stuff about. Talk about a handicap.


He is not arrogant? He dose not claim himself the leader of the planet? He dose not think he can't lose? He dose not claim himself a god?


Things that are similar work the same way now?
Party teleporting and self teleporting work the same way do they?
Be honest, have you even fully completed or even started FFIX?



I refused to show you something i don't have? How dose that work again?


Then i suggest you make a more specific thread of this battle, including;
Location,
Powers available,
Type of battle (I.E death match),
Where they start,
General other rules.



Fine, i really couldn't care less. I concede to that.



Ima say that since we don't see holy actually destroy the planet, just a much smaller meteor. Its basically the same point you make for Ultima not destroying a planet.

Bugen said holy could possibly.
Mikito said utima did.
I'm pretty sure a 2nd char said ultima did too, armand i think.
Unless there's "a plot reason" for them to lie here which there isn't.


There's that "i said so, so that's how it works" attitude again.


Everything currently used on, yes.
Ultima which it has NEVER been attempted on, PROVE IT.


I dont see how its quite the same with sephy and kuja.
J-cell/Mako infused zack dodging bullets is a small feat for him, sephy stopping ultima is not.


In the game when you confront Hojo he says something similar to "yes, yes, have all the mako energy you want my son", its because of this that cloud and co fight him, to stop him.


Unless this "alien" is some kind of machine, it would have to be biological, biological beings HAVE to eat.


1) Biological offspring and a genome are totally different.
2) Talents and magical abilities bestowed are totally different.
3) Magical abilities don't change with who uses them, they remain constant.



Directly no, as a result of the aftermath of the explosion sephy would die.


Actually in KH it kills you unless you have an ability to retain 1HP even after a critical hit.
Prove in FF in non-gameplay it would work. If it did why didn't sephiroth use it on cloud then torment him?



I can accept the fact sephiroth CAN win, i never said he did not have a chance. Don't misunderstand that.

But now you have accepted kuja has a chance, consider this....

I beat one of the final boss' in FFT Advance with the last attack i was gonna get before dying and it only had a 3% chance of success, but it worked and i won.
The point being even though FFTA ain't relevant to this, the smallest chance of victory counts.



All things including people are made from the elements, Ultima is NOT. If its not of the elements it can not be stopped.
Ultima is also NOT matter, it is energy. Pure concentrated, non-elemental energy that can pass through anything.


The damage you receive in game play (which i though was not relevant?) is determined by resistance.
Barrier raises resistance, even if was to a point where you maxed the stats Ultima would still hit.



Against an elemental attack that would be true, but dose not count against non-elemental attacks, they would hit there target.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Wow... just wow... have u even played any other FF games besides IX?

FFI, FFII, FFIII, FFIV, FFV, FFVI, FFVII, FFIX, FFX, FFX-2, Tactics advance, Tactics: war of the lions and Crystal Conicals.


When did we start discussing meteor again? Who cares? I already knew that fact, but we are only interested in holy ATM.


1) Holy is always an offensive white magic spell. Yes or No?
2) Holy ALWAYS dose more damage to undead targets. Yes or No?
3) In VII the attack mechanics of holy have NOT changed, it is summoned and attacks a single target, Meteor. Yes or No?
4) Holy killed no-one nor destroyed anything cept meteor. Yes or NO?


To the average person, fiend or machine, totally true.
Do you plan to start saying he could own Kuja in this form as well?


So by that your saying the invincible would have no effect on sephy?
Your saying is if the dragon caught him off guard while he was being attacked by the invincible it would do nothing to him?
TK Ultima? in your dreams.



I know "Sephiroth > Kuja" is a possibility.
I also know Kuja > sephiroth is a possibility.

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
Sephy stopping it = it can NOT destroy everything

Can destroy the PLANET, Sephiroth however is capable of stopping something at that calibre.


Your point? That "hunk of rock" is capable of doing just as much damage, if not more damage then ultima, and yes it is a>b>c logic which works over 90% of the time.


If no planets were destroyed then why can you clearly see planets being destroyed?


Which doesn't work on debates, you cannot assume things just because yu have "limited facts" knwoing MORE about the character can more likely even make the character WEAKER. For example Sentry when he first came out people thought he was soo uber because of the things he accomplished and all of the things people say about him, yet the more comics he appeared in, the more weaker he seemed, getting hurt by a plane exlosion, losing to hulk, etc.


He never did call himself the current leader of the planet, he said he WILL become a god, and rule over the planet, in which he would've if he succeeded.


Unless proven otherwise or shown otherwise its the best we can guess, and yes ive played some of FFIX many years ago.


Then find it, youtube has a video for EVERYTHING that has happened in FFIX


Things like this don't need to be stated, if not stated its normally assumed that the fight is on neutral grounds, all powers are available, battle to the death, etc


Which still puts them at equal level, Holy is capable of destroying everyone on Gaia, ultima destroyed terra, Sephiroth is capable of stopping something of that calibre.


I'm not denying Kuja destroyed the surface of Terra, i never stated Mikito lied, or any of the other characters.


If theres nothing that suggests it WOULDN'T work, then it most likely WILL work.


Everything currently used on, yes.
Ultima which it has NEVER been attempted on, PROVE IT.
Ultima and Holy are at the same level of destruction power, if Sephiroth can hold Holy, there isn't any reason he shouldn't beable to hold Ultima, also another thing you should keep in mind is that when he did the destroying the surface of Terra feat, Kuja had to unleash multiple ultima blasts, Sephiroth with just a STARE has him locked before he can even shoot more then 2 of his blasts.


I'm just trying to say that the difference of world makes not much of a difference, if character2 (from world2) is equal to character3(from world3) and character1(from world2) defeats character2, then he most likely can defeat character3(from world3) as well


Mako has been shown to only boost physical performance, Zack, Cloud, SOLDIERs don't get any smarter or anything, Sephiroths willpower has been the same throughout all of the games, his body however was encased in mako crystal for when he awakes, everything he does throughout FFVII he acted on sheer willpower.


Not all life forms require food to sustain itself, some lifeforms can nourish themselves with just liquids.


You said it yourself that they only had similar magic, unless this magic was a materia, if its learned, then it isn't always identical.


Thats why GAMEPLAY doesn't make sense, another reason why its not allowed in debates.


Sephiroth refused to use any magic abilities in that fight, he wanted to torment him physically, so for some reason he only used melee

And again GAMEPLAY is not allowed in debates, because you CANT prove how it works non-gameplay, just like you cant say "oo well flare looks like it appears out of no where, so it must just come out of no where in non-gameplay" No you cant say that its not real evidence, example fire in FFVIII looks like it appears out of no where as well, but in the intro you clearly see it being shot projectile.


Again, you cannot say those kinds of things in a debate, thats not how debating works, it works on who is more powerful will be the winner, not a movie style "things could happen" thing.
Its like saying the "wolverine could possibly slip and hurt himself, you never know what might happen" no those kinds of things don't work in a debate, this is not a movie, its a debate battle.



Holy is a big massive wave of energy as well, the element has nothing to do with it, example: BARRIER - it reduces damage from EVERYTHING, yes including non-elemental magic, why? Because Barrier has nothing to do with elements, it simply shields. TK is like a extremely strong barrier, shielding whatever is inside from escaping.


Damage would still be reduced, therefore barrier effects it just like any other element.


The element has nothing to do with TK, it could be a non-elemental brick, it still wouldn't escape TK.

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
FFI, FFII, FFIII, FFIV, FFV, FFVI, FFVII, FFIX, FFX, FFX-2, Tactics advance, Tactics: war of the lions and Crystal Conicals.

Well then you know not every magic is identical.


Its the point that NOT every magic is the same in each FF


1) Yes
2) Yes, because of the element, however its weaker against resistant enemies, but stronger against non-resistant(undead), non-element has a set damage, it isn't stronger against non-resistant, but it isnt weaker against resistant, non-elemental ISN'T > element, they both have there positives and negatives. But all in all, its all about RESISTANCE
3) It was summoned to stop meteor, however it could have well destroyed everything on the planet as well.
4)Again, its capable of destroying everyone, as stated, do not try to argue the facts.


CC Sephiroth could probably beat Regular Kuja.


Again CC Sephiroth was destroying tons of dragons just like that on a whim, and they couldn't even harm Sephiroth, do not try to compare those dragons as even a threat to AC Sephiroth, he would destroy them with a gesture.


^ Thats better.

Instead of quoting everything let me state a few facts.

1) Your in favor of sephiroth 100% and are a fanboy of his.
2) I'm in favor of Kuja winning (Not 100% but pretty close) and am a fan girl.

How about instead of quoting each other till hell freezes over we make a new thread with a poll clearly outlining the rules for everyone and let the votes do the talking?

Don't go thinking i wont go back to quoting either if you choose not too agree to this.

Facts does not make me a fanboy

Sephiroth has feats and power to kill and counter Kuja to back up his victory.

Kuja doesn't, thats why its more likely in favour of Sephiroths victory.

She will never accept it, Terryc.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Facts does not make me a fanboy

Sephiroth has feats and power to kill and counter Kuja to back up his victory.

Kuja doesn't, thats why its more likely in favour of Sephiroths victory. Ahem, you ARE a fanboy of sephiroth. Because i agree with her, i have "debated" with you in the past several times and have read your posts and unbelivable bias to sephiroth.

So really, you claiming your not a fanboy does not make it so, i can simply say ohhh the ocean is yellow but does that make it so? No.

But hey at the least you can argue and back some of your claims up.

All i see is more sephiroth cock sucking.(Not from you in all honesty, i just don't want to name that paticular person)

Seph doesn't even have the durability feats to survive a shot from FFIX Odin.
He hasn't done anything to indicate he can destroy a planet in as short a time as Trance Kuja.
He hasn't done anything to indicate his power is vast enough to cross dimensions and space.
He loses, plain as that.

Kuja doesn't have any speed feats to prove he cant be speedblitz by Sephiroth

Kuja's strongest attack is Ultima, he required to do multiple of them to destroy the surface of Terra (which is a small planet)

Sephiroth held Holy for months will his willpower, which means he should beable to trap Kuja and his Ultima's.

Sephiroth took the power of the lifestream, threatened to transform the entire planet, the lfiestream is easily capable of destroying Kuja once he his trapped by Sephiroth willpower.

Again, what can Kuja do to harm Sephiroth?

Ultima. Kuja is clearly the more powerful of the two in terms of busting power.

Depends on how powerful Sephiroths Negative Lifestream is, a small portion of the lifestream was able to disintegrate meteor, and should be enough to destroy the surface of terra much like Kuja's ultima was able to.

This reminds me, how big was Meteor again? I forgot.

Big enough to wound the planet so that basically most of the population would ceast to exist, Terra was a very small planet, Disintegrating Meteor into nothing should be atleast equal to destroying the surface of Terra.