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ROTS kenobi vs ROTS windu, force fight only, no saber combat.
Who would win?

Mace would crush Obi-Wan. He's leaps and bounds ahead of Obi-Wan at this point. You should read Shatterpoint; it's pretty amazing what he can do.

Hmm, i always thought ROTS Kenobi, ROTS Windu, and ROTS Anakin were equally good with the Force. So Windu is stronger in the force than Kenobi and Anakin at the time of ROTS?

By far. Older and more experienced. He's more on Dooku's level than anything.

Yes. Mace outclasses Obi in every way

k. I just watched the clone wars cartoon, can mace really do what he did with the army of super battle droids? It was pretty amazing

No the cartoon exaggerates the powers of most of the Jedi/Sith by a large amount.




And Mace wins this, maybe it's just be but I always thought Kenobi was closer to Mace with a blade than he was with the Force. Though Mace would take the saber duel as well.

Actually, according to Lucas, this is what he had in mind for real Jedi and Sith.

There is no clear cut answer, they both are good at diffent techniques. eg obi wan is good at force push, as you see him bouncing GG off the wall like a basketball in ROTS. but mace is a master of force crush as you see him crushing GG like a soda can in CW. so they could be there all day, throwing the force at eachother untill one of them get tired and passes out. but ay theres the rub, both of them mostly channel thier force mastery through thier blades, whether its, mace submerged into vaapad or obi wan, staying in the eye of the storm. but i have seen mace do more awesome feats without his sword such as crushing the droids. however, obi wan is seen as more resourceful if you saw how he impaled that praying mantis-lizard thing on geonosis, or how he killed GG without the blade. so my conclusion is this: if they fight in a bare enviroment 8/10 mace's way but in a crowded enviroment, ostacle course type area 7/10 obi wans way. thats my answer.

Putting this as nicely as possible: no. Mace absolutely obliterates Obi-Wan in any setting, end of story.

Except having an awesome goatee

Originally posted by Faunus
Putting this as nicely as possible: no. Mace absolutely obliterates Obi-Wan in any setting, end of story.
warrant this

Originally posted by Gideon
Actually, according to Lucas, this is what he had in mind for real Jedi and Sith.

Where did he say this? Is it in the DVD commentary or something?

This is a close Mace, in the cartoons and Shatterpoint has shown great force powers, but in the Movies, esepecially ROTS Kenobi showed how powerful he was. Mace is superior to Kenobi is sabers, but in overall force power its very close. If you take the saber out of Mace's hand, I would take Kenobi in this fight though.

Originally posted by kiddo44
This is a close Mace, in the cartoons and Shatterpoint has shown great force powers, but in the Movies, esepecially ROTS Kenobi showed how powerful he was. Mace is superior to Kenobi is sabers, but in overall force power its very close. If you take the saber out of Mace's hand, I would take Kenobi in this fight though.

Someone has reached a particular level of high with his substance abuse. Kenobi hasn't compared to Windu at all in any category, other than lightsaber defense.



According to Nai, the Clone Wars DVD commentary.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
warrant this You mean "substantiate" it? I shouldn't have to.

Originally posted by Faunus
You mean "substantiate" it? I shouldn't have to.
becuase???????????? what you can just make sweeping claims with no logic to back them up?

Why? You don't want people to cut in on your non-logical monopoly?

haermm

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Why? You don't want people to cut in on your non-logical monopoly?
what?

Dooku tooled Obi-Wan with the Force most heinously
pretty sure Mace can do the same

Originally posted by 123KID
Dooku tooled Obi-Wan with the Force most heinously
pretty sure Mace can do the same

not relevant, we're talking strictly force, that was a sword duel. if the terms were set, to force alone the result might have been diffrent

Apparently you missed the part where Dooku put Obi-Wan on his ass, and tossed him aside like a ragdoll twenty seconds later.

Damn right. Anakin and Obi-Wan would've been tooled.

Originally posted by Faunus
Apparently you missed the part where Dooku put Obi-Wan on his ass, and tossed him aside like a ragdoll twenty seconds later.

Damn right. Anakin and Obi-Wan would've been tooled.

agian , obi was going for swords as oppose to force so you cant wiegh that as a "force fight only' and you have no proof that obi and anakin wouldve gotten tooled haha, did you see what anakin did to the techno union haha dude, obi and anakin would press dooku out like a grape with the force

I could typo, not use proper punctuation or capitalization, and toss in "haha"s and mentions of grapes, too.

- obiwong can pul, lightsaber furce out of his beard nd cill duku yes dude and anikan and obi will win Omg!!?1 graopes? -

... Yeah. When Obi-Wan does anything to show he can make the likes of Mace or Dooku so much as flinch, you get back to me.

Originally posted by Faunus
I could typo, not use proper punctuation or capitalization, and toss in "haha"s and mentions of grapes, too.

- obiwong can pul, lightsaber furce out of his beard nd cill duku yes dude and anikan and obi will win Omg!!?1 graopes? -

... Yeah. When Obi-Wan does anything to show he can make the likes of Mace or Dooku so much as flinch, you get back to me.

It's so funny yet sad, you dont have the logic to defeat my arguments so you criticize my typo's but my analogy still stands, given my example of anakins force ferocity. and if you want examples of obi wan's Force power just read my previous posts. because as i said, there is no clear cut answer to the question. dont oversimplify it with your oversimplified way of thinking please.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
It's so funny yet sad, you dont have the logic to defeat my arguments"Logic" is obviously an alien notion to you, and you have no arguments.

More your lack of respect for proper grammar, but sure.

First off, Anakin isn't even part of this thread, so there's no reason for me to waste anymore time or effort on that than I already have. Second, your "analogy" sucks. At least Google some good metaphors or similes for "ownage" if you can't come up with them yourself...

I did. And I found them lacking.

Yeah, there is. Obi-Wan's highest showings in the Force are tossing away Grievous and stalemating Anakin. Mace triggered and "rode" a landslide said to contain several hundred tons of rock while on his back, was able to speed himself up to the point where he could land six blows to the "immensely" powerful Kar Vastor - in the jungle, on Vastor's terms, in an unarmed brawl - before he could blink, and managed to fight his way through a droid army with the Force and his bare hands.

Since it's really very, very simple, I think that's exactly what I'll do.

You know, you're fun to have around, which is why I'm still replying to this. We need more people like you.

Originally posted by Faunus
"Logic" is obviously an alien notion to you, and you have no arguments.

More your lack of respect for proper grammar, but sure.

First off, Anakin isn't even part of this thread, so there's no reason for me to waste anymore time or effort on that than I already have. Second, your "analogy" sucks. At least Google some good metaphors or similes for "ownage" if you can't come up with them yourself...

I did. And I found them lacking.

Yeah, there is. Obi-Wan's highest showings in the Force are tossing away Grievous and stalemating Anakin. Mace triggered and "rode" a landslide said to contain several hundred tons of rock while on his back, was able to speed himself up to the point where he could land six blows to the "immensely" powerful Kar Vastor - in the jungle, on Vastor's terms, in an unarmed brawl - before he could blink, and managed to fight his way through a droid army with the Force and his bare hands.

Since it's really very, very simple, I think that's exactly what I'll do.

You know, you're fun to have around, which is why I'm still replying to this. We need more people like you.

this is like debating a child.
bashing is for 6 year olds, please debate like an adult.
obi wan is seen as extremly resourseful and quick on his feet, which would give him the advantage in a crowded area. besides obi wan had the strength in the force to pull himself outta the dark side quite a few times, which speak to his internal strength so again, it depends on the enviroment in which they fight.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
this is like debating a child.You're debating?
Please type like one.
First: that doesn't require "strength" as in raw power. It takes conviction and willpower, and no one's doubting that Obi-Wan has either.

Second: you've obviously you've never read Shatterpoint.

Ever hear of Vaapad? Mace lives on the edge of darkness; his style of combat demands it, and the only other practitioners (Depa, Sora) both fell to the Dark side through its use. The fact that Obi-Wan has slipped up so many times, while Mace has only one related "error" to his name, shows that Windu demonstrates at least as much of this "strength" as Obi-Wan.

Third: this is completely irrelevant.

No, it doesn't. Against someone similar in skill, like Anakin or Asajj, yes, Obi-Wan's cleverness can net him some like unlikely wins. But here he faces an opponent who is leagues above him in almost every combat-related quality. Not that it's even relevant here, as none of Obi-Wan's offensive Force attacks (uh, Push?) are going to be able to pierce Mace's defense, while the opposite is, well, just the opposite.

I've actually provided considerably more proof than is necessary, especially since you have absolutely none.

Originally posted by Faunus
You're debating?
Please type like one.
First: that doesn't require "strength" as in raw power. It takes conviction and willpower, and no one's doubting that Obi-Wan has either.

Second: you've obviously you've never read Shatterpoint.

Ever hear of Vaapad? Mace lives on the edge of darkness; his style of combat demands it, and the only other practitioners (Depa, Sora) both fell to the Dark side through its use. The fact that Obi-Wan has slipped up so many times, while Mace has only one related "error" to his name, shows that Windu demonstrates at least as much of this "strength" as Obi-Wan.

Third: this is completely irrelevant.

No, it doesn't. Against someone similar in skill, like Anakin or Asajj, yes, Obi-Wan's cleverness can net him some like unlikely wins. But here he faces an opponent who is leagues above him in almost every combat-related quality. Not that it's even relevant here, as none of Obi-Wan's offensive Force attacks (uh, Push?) are going to be able to pierce Mace's defense, while the opposite is, well, just the opposite.

I've actually provided considerably more proof than is necessary, especially since you have absolutely none.

you seem to be an overt fan of mace, but fail to relize that just beacuse you like him doesnt mean he pwns every one. ive got more important things to do, because i have a life. Goodnight Sir.

and btw the fight is force only, vaapad is a saber form
plus obi wan is not a darksider so no superconducting loop

MoC, you are wrong so you should stop. If you've read shatterpoint or seen the star wars cartoons, you'd realize Mace is beyond Obiwan in force abilities. I am not saying Obiwan is a pushover but Obiwan's biggest feat was against Grievous. He wouldn't beat Mace.

Play nice, kiddos. I won't have any bickering.

Master Windu is vastly superior to Kenobi in regards to Force ability. Kenobi is not lacking and possesses great power, but Windu is simply beyond him.

I think you need to have Lo Pan make an appearance, Rex. You've been slacking.

Eh, superconducting loop deflects force powers such as lightning, push, etc. If obi-wan pushed Mace, mace would deflect it back and send obi-wan flying.

After reading shatterpoint, watching CW, reading EU and other stuff about Windu, my conclusion is that Windu would win. Thanks for the great debate guys

Originally posted by Darth_noodle
Eh, superconducting loop deflects force powers such as lightning, push, etc. If obi-wan pushed Mace, mace would deflect it back and send obi-wan flying.

After reading shatterpoint, watching CW, reading EU and other stuff about Windu, my conclusion is that Windu would win. Thanks for the great debate guys

isnt one of the prerequisittes of the superconducting loop that the enemy be a darksider?

Originally posted by Man of Christ
isnt one of the prerequisittes of the superconducting loop that the enemy be a darksider?

Correct.

Originally posted by Gideon
Correct.

thanx, thought so

Originally posted by Man of Christ
thanx, thought so

Not that he'd need it. No offense, dude, but Faunus and company are clearly right. Mace Windu has demonstrated a much more refined and controlled mastery of the Force than Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by Gideon
Not that he'd need it. No offense, dude, but Faunus and company are clearly right. Mace Windu has demonstrated a much more refined and controlled mastery of the Force than Obi-Wan.

hasnt obi wan shown impressive feats in cw?

Originally posted by Man of Christ
hasnt obi wan shown impressive feats in cw?

Yes. But Windu, even moreso. Like singlehandedly (minus a lightsaber) destroying an entire army of super battle droids and a seismic tank on Dantooine.

Originally posted by Gideon
Yes. But Windu, even moreso. Like singlehandedly (minus a lightsaber) destroying an entire army of super battle droids and a seismic tank on Dantooine.

Agreed.