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No weapons, just wits and fists, going at it, toe to toe. Who wins and why?

John calls indie a dickhead then punches him in the face.

and then Indy punches him back, durh.....who wins in the end?

Indiana of course..

I agree, I see them on par as fighters, but Indy is tougher.

I honestly think that John McClane would take this one after a very difficult fight.

It'd be close, and only after each gives and takes their share of injuries....

Indy takes this fight, hands down. Indy's a scrapper, and has tangled with a lot a Nazi dickheads. McClane, while I certainly agree that he is a badass, just doesnt have, in my opinion, Indy's presence.

Rmember that fight he had with the huge nazi by the airplane in ROTLA?

Indy.

McClane is the superior driver, and has better luck, but I'd give the H2H to Indy.

I'd say John McClane, he seems stronger and more of a fighter. Besides, his amazing luck must be factored in...it does put Gladstone Gander to shame.

the more I think on it, the more I see Indy winning this fight. They can both take a beating, but Indy seems more capable of taking a hard punch and bouncing back.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Rmember that fight he had with the huge nazi by the airplane in ROTLA?

Indy was losing that fight and would have died if the guy hadn't been killed by the airplane propeller.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Indy was losing that fight and would have died if the guy hadn't been killed by the airplane propeller. No, as usual, he would have found another way to win.

And dont get me started on luck, as B stated, McClanes luck is mystical.

*shrug*

All I'm saying is that fighting that big Nazi isn't exactly a good showing as Indy lost the actual fist fight.

Indy lived, dead Nazi, Indy won. If it wouldnt have been the propellor, it would have been sumthin else. Look at McClaines fights, he should be dead MANY times over.

I'd say McClane, just because he's so resourceful.

thats his only advantage, that and his amazing luck.

McClane would kick his ass all over the place.

I find it ridiculous how they made McClane from scared guy who gets lucky and kills a bunch of terrorists (die hard 1) to the guy that kicks the shit out of anything that moves and kills anyone he wants. (die hard 4)

I'm still cheerin' for Indy.

so you are saying that McClane doesnt have an amazing amount of luck?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so you are saying that McClane doesnt have an amazing amount of luck?

Sure he does.

I just never cared for what became of him in the sequels. He went from a scared nobody into an Arnold Schwarzenegger character.

Originally posted by McLovin
Sure he does.

I just never cared for what became of him in the sequels. He went from a scared nobody into an Arnold Schwarzenegger character.

I couldn't have put it better myself. Die Hard is an American classic, while the sequels were repetetive and recycled, in my opinion.

remember when Indy takes on a whole german batallion in the last crusade?

Indy.

Indy hands down.

Indy has the intellect behind the power of his fists. Not that John McClaine isn't intelligent, but I think Indy has him beat.

Indiana Jones is second to only Jeremy Paxton.

Indiana Jones dicked on a bunch of real Nazi's. John McClane done similar to a bunch of German men in suits. Slightly different.

Originally posted by McLovin
McClane would kick his ass all over the place.

I find it ridiculous how they made McClane from scared guy who gets lucky and kills a bunch of terrorists (die hard 1) to the guy that kicks the shit out of anything that moves and kills anyone he wants. (die hard 4)

I'm still cheerin' for Indy.

Oh come on, dude, McClane was a ****ing badass in the first one already.

so was Indy in ROTLA.....point?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so was Indy in ROTLA.....point? The point is that he said he wasn't.

oops.

Stalemate if both are in their prime.

Is McClane ever shown pwning three soldiers h2h at the same time? I think not.

Only becuase that would have been two many for McClane.

3 WHOLW SOLDIERS....???!!! WOW...!!!! I guess it cant POSSIBLY be as impressive to take out a moving plane and 20 odd fort bragg trained marines WITH A ZIPPO...

I would question Indy's zippo skills against McClane's too.

Genetically he is lighterly-challenged, as evidenced by his dad's shitness with a zippo in IJaTLC, a brief moment of zippoing which burnt Indy a bit and burned down the room that they were in. Not to good.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Only becuase that would have been two many for McClane.

3 WHOLW SOLDIERS....???!!! WOW...!!!! I guess it cant POSSIBLY be as impressive to take out a moving plane and 20 odd fort bragg trained marines WITH A ZIPPO...

I would question Indy's zippo skills against McClane's too.

Genetically he is lighterly-challenged, as evidenced by his dad's shitness with a zippo in IJaTLC, a brief moment of zippoing which burnt Indy a bit and burned down the room that they were in. Not to good.


Well of course McClane sets people on fire better, but this thread is h2h combat. You know, that thing that McClane sucks at.

BTW, again, no weapons, just h2h. I wasnt very clear on the setting, so I guess.....A bare room? Yeah, a bare room, nothing hanging on the walls, no tables, no chairs. A well lit bare room with steel walls and floor.

A zippo isnt a weapon, technically.

If you are searched by a cop and you are found to have an unlicenced Beretta on you, and an unlicenced Zippo on you.......

Guess which one you get arrested for...?

So McClane has his zippo, what's he gonna do with it? It's a bare metal room, nothing flammable in it.

He'll be able to see in the dark.

Or burn all the oxygen in the room, and outlast his enemies as they all suffocate, due to his luck and endurance, obviously.

The room is well lit, einstein. You saying Indy has no luck? His luck rivals McClanes. Remember that part in IJaTLC when he took out like 6 nazis with one shot? And durability and pain endurance, remember in IJaTTOD when Indy was fighting the giant towelhead while being stabbed over and over in the back, and STILL won? I can go on and on and on.....

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
He'll be able to see in the dark.

Or burn all the oxygen in the room, and outlast his enemies as they all suffocate, due to his luck and endurance, obviously.

I do like the suffocating his enemies and outlasting them, something I can see McClane improvising. Good show.

He's an alcoholic, he could use the alcohol in his urine as a combustible, pissing on Indy, knocking him back and casually tossing the Zippo at him. *cue witty line*

McClane chasing down a nazi truck convoy on horseback and overtaking it, all the while unarmed. Yeah, that'll happen. And falling out of an airplane with nothing but a life raft and surviving, sure. And the fight scene in TLC, where Indy took on the entire nazi platoon and won, sure, McClane could do that.

Considering McClane sends Crown Victorias flying into airborne helicopters, yes, yes he could.

McClane could just....look at the nazi's say 'Yippe kai ai motherf*cker' and then their heads would explode smurph

Sure, because he totally did that in his movies.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The room is well lit, einstein. You saying Indy has no luck? His luck rivals McClanes. Remember that part in IJaTLC when he took out like 6 nazis with one shot? And durability and pain endurance, remember in IJaTTOD when Indy was fighting the giant towelhead while being stabbed over and over in the back, and STILL won? I can go on and on and on.....

Well, Newton, it doesnt matter, the suffocation would render that a moot point for Indy.

Im not saying that Indy in his prime wasnt an impressive figure in the world of Luck and endurance.

But your comparing Jupiter (Indy) to Betelguese (McClane).

That wasnt literally being stabbed in the back.
Indy never bled from that- that was just evil voodoo, baby.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
McClane chasing down a nazi truck convoy on horseback and overtaking it, all the while unarmed. Yeah, that'll happen. And falling out of an airplane with nothing but a life raft and surviving, sure. And the fight scene in TLC, where Indy took on the entire nazi platoon and won, sure, McClane could do that.

McClane chasing down a CIA/Marines filled 747 on helicopter back then over taking its wing, and destroying it with a mere Zippo, whilst simultaneously saving the planes by creating landing lights was more impressive.

You say that like jumping off a high rise building with nothing but a firehose wasnt as impressive.

McClane killed more Germans than Indy ever did. Fact.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Well, Newton, it doesnt matter, the suffocation would render that a moot point for Indy.

Im not saying that Indy in his prime wasnt an impressive figure in the world of Luck and endurance.

But your comparing Jupiter (Indy) to Betelguese (McClane).

That wasnt literally being stabbed in the back.
Indy never bled from that- that was just evil voodoo, baby.

Bleed or not, he fought through the pain and pwned a man twice his size.

Shall we compare the h2h feats of Indy and McClane yet again? Hmm? Shall we compare all their strengths? I'll play if you will.

Originally posted by Robtard
I do like the suffocating his enemies and outlasting them, something I can see McClane improvising. Good show.

He's an alcoholic, he could use the alcohol in his urine as a combustible, pissing on Indy, knocking him back and casually tossing the Zippo at him. *cue witty line*

Holy shit. I hadnt even considered that....! An excellent point.
A napalm uriny victory to the New Jersey slugger...!

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Bleed or not, he fought through the pain and pwned a man twice his size.

Shall we compare the h2h feats of Indy and McClane yet again? Hmm? Shall we compare all their strengths? I'll play if you will.

Its not in your argument's interest to compare them.

McClane fought bigger guys the whole time.

Different bigger guys too.

Whenever Indy fought someone big in the 1st 3 films, it was always Pat Roach...!

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Its not in your argument's interest to compare them.

McClane fought bigger guys the whole time.

Different bigger guys too.

Whenever Indy fought someone big in the 1st 3 films, it was always Pat Roach...! It's not in my arguments interest to list them? I think you got it backwards. Indy fights h2h and wins h2h, while MClane fights h2h and loses regularly h2h.

McClane fought bigger guys the whole time? Example, please. Who is bigger than the bald nazi from Raiders? Or the towelhead from Temple of Doom? When did McClane ever jump onto a jeep with three trained soldiers and pwn them h2h in less than a few seconds? When has McClane took on a batallion/platoon/whatever of soldiers AND tanks and won? When has McClane ever chased down a nazi convoy on horseback, overtake said convoy, get shit, dragged under a truck, and still win? Hmm?

And lets not even start on who is smarter.

Never.

Oh really..? So we dont see Indy cheap shotting people left right and center...?

So Raiders of the lost ark saw Indy leap in and disarm that swordsman ith his whip or unarmed..?










......Or did he just shoot the guy...?


He shot the guy.

In temple of doom....how did Indy beat his big opponent you referred to...?
By way of accident in stone crushing machine or with his fists...?


End case.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It's not in my arguments interest to list them? I think you got it backwards. Indy fights h2h and wins h2h, while MClane fights h2h and loses regularly h2h.

McClane fought bigger guys the whole time? Example, please. Who is bigger than the bald nazi from Raiders? Or the towelhead from Temple of Doom? When did McClane ever jump onto a jeep with three trained soldiers and pwn them h2h in less than a few seconds? When has McClane took on a batallion/platoon/whatever of soldiers AND tanks and won? When has McClane ever chased down a nazi convoy on horseback, overtake said convoy, get shit, dragged under a truck, and still win? Hmm?

And lets not even start on who is smarter.

Never.

The russian in DH3.

McClanes feats against multiple, more dangerous than a few nazi soldiers opponents are well in order.
And surviving like he did is not the same as winning.

In Die Hard 2 he took on whole better trained platoons and won.

No need to retread old ground.

When Indy was done fighting, there was still a Nazi Germany left.

When McClane stops fighting, all his enemies are dead.

Smarter is a relative term.
Henry Jones is certainly well educated, but McClane outsmarted Gruber brothers, the CIA, world class mercenaries and lived to maim and kill again. Knowledge and intelligence are two different things.

I'd like to see how well Indy, with all the modern anti-terrorism knoweldge that 1930s Indy'll have, would get on against German terrorist from his future, in a futuristic environment like Nakatomi towers would be to him. Hell, he wont even know what the f**k a helicopter is, much less how to evade one shooting at him on a highrise rooftop.

Nuff said.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Oh really..? So we dont see Indy cheap shotting people left right and center...? Yeah, and McClane would never take a cheap shot. What WAS I thinking?

He was looking for Marion and couldnt be ****ed to take the time. Like your hero McClane using the SUV to kill the ninja chick, remember? He was too busy saving the world to fight her h2h to the finish.


Haaaaaaaaaa!!! Indy won the fight!!! Just as McClane won the fight against the ninja chick without using his hands, remember? Hmm? And how he blew up the jetliner, remember? Hmm? Doesnt matter to you HOW the opponent is killed, only that they are in fact killed. I knew that would come back to bite you in the ass one day haermm

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth

When McClane stops fighting, all his enemies are dead.


This is mere moments before the credits roll. /fact

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

Haaaaaaaaaa!!! Indy won the fight!!! Just as McClane won the fight against the ninja chick without using his hands, remember? Hmm? And how he blew up the jetliner, remember? Hmm? Doesnt matter to you HOW the opponent is killed, only that they are in fact killed. I knew that would come back to bite you in the ass one day haermm

How have you already forgotten that McClane KO'd her and could have killed her, if he so wished. You blatantly ignore this, McClane beat the ninja girl, spared her life, she got all yuppity about it, so then he killed her.

It was really a double-win in McClane's book and counts as two separate feats. Win by KO. Win by truck up the ass.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
The russian in DH3.

McClanes feats against multiple, more dangerous than a few nazi soldiers opponents are well in order.
And surviving like he did is not the same as winning.

In Die Hard 2 he took on whole better trained platoons and won.

No need to retread old ground.

When Indy was done fighting, there was still a Nazi Germany left.

When McClane stops fighting, all his enemies are dead.

Smarter is a relative term.
Henry Jones is certainly well educated, but McClane outsmarted Gruber brothers, the CIA, world class mercenaries and lived to maim and kill again. Knowledge and intelligence are two different things.

I'd like to see how well Indy, with all the anti-terrorism knoweldge that 1930s Indy'll have, would get on against German terrorist from his future, in a futuristic environment like Nakatomi towers would be to him. Hell, he wont even know what the f**k a helicopter is, much less how to evade one shooting at him on a highrise rooftop.

Nuff said.

Indy always achieves his goals, he never loses, what difference does it make if his enemies are dead or not? Victory is Victory.

And I'd like to see how McClane would do in the fight in The Last Crusade, against umpteen Nazis and tanks. I'd like to see McClane escape the cave from Raiders. I'd like to see McClane reclaim the Ark from the nazi convoy.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yeah, and McClane would never take a cheap shot. What WAS I thinking?

He was looking for Marion and couldnt be ****ed to take the time. Like your hero McClane using the SUV to kill the ninja chick, remember? He was too busy saving the world to fight her h2h to the finish.


Haaaaaaaaaa!!! Indy won the fight!!! Just as McClane won the fight against the ninja chick without using his hands, remember? Hmm? And how he blew up the jetliner, remember? Hmm? Doesnt matter to you HOW the opponent is killed, only that they are in fact killed. I knew that would come back to bite you in the ass one day haermm

No its just proved my point, if anything.
And that you have been dodging admitting it in the past through sheer and willful McIgnorance.

Finally you have no excuse, having now admitted to Mcunderstanding this analogy, for your ninja chick superiority claims.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Indy always achieves his goals, he never loses, what difference does it make if his enemies are dead or not? Victory is Victory.

And I'd like to see how McClane would do in the fight in The Last Crusade, against umpteen Nazis and tanks. I'd like to see McClane escape the cave from Raiders. I'd like to see McClane reclaim the Ark from the nazi convoy.

One would argue that if your enemies are all alive, then, that you are not as good at killing people as McClane is.

Well, no doubt McClane would.

List ALL of the umpteen tanks.

Cause I gotta know what umpteen is as a number exactly.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Indy always achieves his goals, he never loses, what difference does it make if his enemies are dead or not? Victory is Victory.

To bad this isn't a 'who can achieve a goal first' Vs. thread. It's a fight; to the death. McClane has the clear advantage when it comes to killing.

Indy always fails. Thats why the holy grail is not on his mantlepiece.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
No its just proved my point, if anything.
And that you have been dodging admitting it in the past through sheer and willful McIgnorance.

Finally you have no excuse, having now admitted to Mcunderstanding this analogy, for your ninja chick superiority claims. If you say so. The difference is that as towelhead fell into the rock crusher thingie, Indy was beating holy shit outta him. where as McClane had just gotten his ass kicked before using the SUV.

Originally posted by Robtard
To bad this isn't a 'who can achieve a goal first' Vs. thread. It's a fight; to the death. McClane has the clear advantage when it comes to killing. And Indy clearly has the advantage as a pugilist. Not to mention he regularly KO's people with one punch.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Indy always fails. Thats why the holy grail is not on his mantlepiece. Actually his goals changed. He realized what would happen if the grail was removed so he decided to leave it.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
If you say so. The difference is that as towelhead fell into the rock crusher thingie, Indy was beating holy shit outta him. where as McClane had just gotten his ass kicked before using the SUV.

Seriously dude, still?

Here, let me make it even simplier than all those other times.

1) She disarmed him
2) She judo-tossed him into some computer gear
3) She walked away
4) McClane (never being knocked out) gets right back up
5) McClane grabs, beats and tosses her into some shelving
6) She's down and out, KO'd, helpless, at McClane's mercy etc
7) She wakes up
8) he kicks McClane out a window
9) He gets up (he wasn't KO'd this time either)
10) He drives a truck up her ass

Now, where in any of those 10 points can you find me a spot where "ninja-girl defeated McClane H2H"?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Actually his goals changed. He realized what would happen if the grail was removed so he decided to leave it.


Literally shifting goalposts in an argument...?

Wow. I'd never seen that McDone before.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And Indy clearly has the advantage as a pugilist. Not to mention he regularly KO's people with one punch.

McClane's never been knocked out, iirc. Indy has.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Literally shifting goalposts in an argument...?

Wow. I'd never seen that McDone before. Hmm? Just saying that Indy was more concerned with saving his Dad at the end, and when he realized the true power of the grail, he realized it had to stay put.

Yeah but he was really REALLLLLLY reaching for it, and lost it.

He failed.






McClane is luckier than that.

Sure, McClane mighta gotten it, then Indy woulda beat the piss outta him and gave the grail back to the old knight. Once again Indy saves the day.

Indy would have used Elsa to smack Indy down the McHole, and I bet McClane's Dad would be bulletproof, and would not be succeptible to Germanic blackmail/coersion.

I always did wonder about the effects of the sip Jones Sr. took. Like what other things it did to him. Apparently nothing, death pwned him.

It repaired him while he stood in the seal limits, but he was just as mortal as the rest of us when he stepped outside it.

Indy collaborated with Nazis, McFact.

McClane kills baddies.

Indy is a better h2h combatant, itso facto.

Nah. McClane has more variety in his attacks and punches with the same sledgehammer force.

A match up of fourth movie incarnations'd illustrate why McClane is the baddest mofo of the two.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And Indy clearly has the advantage as a pugilist. Not to mention he regularly KO's people with one punch.


Indy has had his fair share of ass beatings. I would be willing to bet that he and McClane are about even on that level. Although, it doesn't really matter because they both end up winning the fight. McClane may have driven an Suv up that Asian girls ass but Indy got just as lucky with that big nazi in Raiders. Had it not been for the Propellers he would have been beaten to death. McClane only resorted to the SUV because he was very limited on time. He had to get back upstairs before Justin Long was killed.

Indy has also never fought a martial artist from what a i can remember. McClane stays fighting martial artists and mercs with special forces training and he always rocks their world.

Has McClane ever KO'd someone with one punch? Nope.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Indy has had his fair share of ass beatings. I would be willing to bet that he and McClane are about even on that level. Although, it doesn't really matter because they both end up winning the fight. McClane may have driven an Suv up that Asian girls ass but Indy got just as lucky with that big nazi in Raiders. Had it not been for the Propellers he would have been beaten to death. McClane only resorted to the SUV because he was very limited on time. He had to get back upstairs before Justin Long was killed.

Indy has also never fought a martial artist from what a i can remember. McClane stays fighting martial artists and mercs with special forces training and he always rocks their world.

The gospel truth /\

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Has McClane ever KO'd someone with one punch? Nope.

Dude. The vast amount of soldiers in the Germany army in WW2 meant that there were loads of people who were clueless h2h and how to take punches.

McClane's standard of opposition would kill those same nazis.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Has McClane ever KO'd someone with one punch? Nope.

that's so cheap man

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
The gospel truth /\ Really now? Name one martial artist McClane beat h2h, not with an SUV, not with a zippo, only killed with his hands. Name one, I dare you.

McClane has his ass handed to him on a regular basis h2h, whereas Indy wins 99% of his h2h battles.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
that's so cheap man Hardly, its the "gospel truth."

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Dude. The vast amount of soldiers in the Germany army in WW2 meant that there were loads of people who were clueless h2h and how to take punches.

McClane's standard of opposition would kill those same nazis. crylaugh dude gimmee a ****ing break crylaugh

All the ones he shot for a start.
Colonel Stuarts special forces buddy in Die Hard 2.

Likewise, name one martial artist that has ever killed McClane.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Really now? Name one martial artist McClane beat h2h, not with an SUV, not with a zippo, only killed with his hands. Name one, I dare you.

McClane has his ass handed to him on a regular basis h2h, whereas Indy wins 99% of his h2h battles.

Yes. Against Pussies.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
All the ones he shot for a start.
Colonel Stuarts special forces buddy in Die Hard 2.

Likewise, name one martial artist that has ever killed McClane. No guns in this battle, do please pay attention.

He didnt kill him with a gun, did he...?

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
He didnt kill him with a gun, did he...? John Amos? He was shit, Indy woulda KO'd him with one punch.

McClane cant one punch KO anyone!!! Not even a girl!!!! crylaugh

His character was a highly trained marine, dude. Thats all that counts.

Niow name me one martial artist who ever lived against McClane AND one who has ever killed him, please.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
John Amos? He was shit, Indy woulda KO'd him with one punch.

McClane cant one punch KO anyone!!! Not even a girl!!!! crylaugh

Mmmmmmmmm except he did. He sparked out ass out.

Indy was jabbed half to death by a fat german in Raiders. With a JAB.

And even Indy's hardest shots couldnt do shit to the guy.
The plane saved Indy as he hid under his hat and sprawled on the floor like a pussy..

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
His character was a highly trained marine, dude. Thats all that counts.

Niow name me one martial artist who ever lived against McClane AND one who has ever killed him, please. And how would you rate him as a fighter based on his movie feats? I'd say, at best, below average.

Name me one person McClane one punch OK'd. Oh yeah, name me one person who ever killed Indy h2h, please.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Mmmmmmmmm except he did. He sparked out ass out.

Indy was jabbed half to death by a fat german in Raiders. With a JAB.

And even Indy's hardest shots couldnt do shit to the guy.

And neither would have McClane's. McClane would have been killed in microseconds.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Really now? Name one martial artist McClane beat h2h, not with an SUV, not with a zippo, only killed with his hands. Name one, I dare you.

McClane has his ass handed to him on a regular basis h2h, whereas Indy wins 99% of his h2h battles.

The German dude in Die Hard 1.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
The German dude in Die Hard 1. The one that fell down the stairs? Karl? Who?

Karl.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The one that fell down the stairs? Karl? Who?


Yeah, the one that McClane put down like three times during the movie. He beat the hell out of him and knocked him out. Then later he even hung him

As if just to make a point.... after all the ass kicking.

Yeah, the one who McClane failed to kill numerous times, the one who should have killed him if it hadn't been for Al. LUCK.

McClane strangles Indy with his whip.

No whip in this fight.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No whip in this fight.

Then McClane drives his thumbs into Indy's eye sockets.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No weapons, just wits and fists, going at it, toe to toe. Who wins and why?

By just wits do you mean they start off with no weapons but can use the environment to their advantage? If so I'll give this a 50/50 and here's why.

IMO McClane is a better improviser. Indy is good, but he's more book smarts. As far as hand to hand skills go, I think Indy is actually better. Both of them had to deal with multiple opponents at the same time before, but McClane I can only remember dealing with them using a weapon, while Jones I can recall beating 6-7 soldiers at the same time with no weapons on him during the jungle chase in Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls.

Originally posted by HumanMovieGuide
By just wits do you mean they start off with no weapons but can use the environment to their advantage? If so I'll give this a 50/50 and here's why.

IMO McClane is a better improviser. Indy is good, but he's more book smarts. As far as hand to hand skills go, I think Indy is actually better. Both of them had to deal with multiple opponents at the same time before, but McClane I can only remember dealing with them using a weapon, while Jones I can recall beating 6-7 soldiers at the same time with no weapons on him during the jungle chase in Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls. There is no environment. Its a bare metal room. No furniture, no SUVs, no zippos. Just bare metal walls and floor. No weapons, just hands and feet.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yeah, the one who McClane failed to kill numerous times, the one who should have killed him if it hadn't been for Al. LUCK.

Nah dude. The guy died like three times. He was just some kind of demon.
McClane whooped his ass everytime though.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And how would you rate him as a fighter based on his movie feats? I'd say, at best, below average.

Name me one person McClane one punch OK'd. Oh yeah, name me one person who ever killed Indy h2h, please.

Sure but thats like Judging Larry Holmes for his fight against Tyson.

Ok then... ...Steven Spielberg.

Death by Rape.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And neither would have McClane's. McClane would have been killed in microseconds.

Pure baseless speculation by you, there.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And how would you rate him as a fighter based on his movie feats? I'd say, at best, below average.

Name me one person McClane one punch OK'd. Oh yeah, name me one person who ever killed Indy h2h, please.

Dude you havent answered me, so we arent going there til then.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
There is no environment. Its a bare metal room. No furniture, no SUVs, no zippos. Just bare metal walls and floor. No weapons, just hands and feet.

Then McClane smashes Indy (who has less endurance to his name than McClane) round the face several times, then smashes his head all over the hard, meatl floors and walls. Hell. Even the ceiling.

Originally posted by HumanMovieGuide
By just wits do you mean they start off with no weapons but can use the environment to their advantage? If so I'll give this a 50/50 and here's why.

IMO McClane is a better improviser. Indy is good, but he's more book smarts. As far as hand to hand skills go, I think Indy is actually better. Both of them had to deal with multiple opponents at the same time before, but McClane I can only remember dealing with them using a weapon, while Jones I can recall beating 6-7 soldiers at the same time with no weapons on him during the jungle chase in Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls.

Well if we are going on KOTCS feats, then Indys old frail legs fail under gravity a few times there...even with NO opponent.

A Short round for McClane.

A lot is made by RJ of that McClanes violence is more realistic in the fact that one punch knockouts constantly dont really happen in real life. But theres no way that Indy would be able to knock McClane out.

I say that as old Indy swings a punch, his elderly hip comes out of his socket and natuarally he is taken to hospital in agony.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
Then McClane drives his thumbs into Indy's eye sockets.

Good call.

Honestly, theres no way that Mcclanes luck would allow him to lose to pensioner.
No..... f***ing............ wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Mmmmmmmmm except he did. He sparked out ass out.

Indy was jabbed half to death by a fat german in Raiders. With a JAB.

And even Indy's hardest shots couldnt do shit to the guy.
The plane saved Indy as he hid under his hat and sprawled on the floor like a pussy.. Just like the SUV and freezing thingie saved McClanes ass. Doooooooooooooooooooooooh. Just like the moving walkway in DH2 saved McClanes ass, just like Zues saved his ass, just like Farrell saved his ass, shall I go on? And McClane would never even have landed a punch on the bald nazi. At least Indy caused some damage.

Can't they just team up and make the greatest team ever?

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Well if we are going on KOTCS feats, then Indys old frail legs fail under gravity a few times there...even with NO opponent.

A Short round for McClane.

A lot is made by RJ of that McClanes violence is more realistic in the fact that one punch knockouts constantly dont really happen in real life. But theres no way that Indy would be able to knock McClane out.

I say that as old Indy swings a punch, his elderly hip comes out of his socket and natuarally he is taken to hospital in agony. Yeah, Indy is old in all his movies Indy performs h2h feats McClane can only dream of. BTW, OLD Indy pwned three russians h2h in seconds. Hell, Old Indy is a better h2h combatant than ANY McClane. Old McClane couldnt even handle a single woman h2h. Marion Ravenwood would pwn McClane, judging by movie feats. haermm

Real life? crylaugh Its the MOVIES, dude, geez, get with it. Indy KO's guys left and right with one frigging punch, McClane cant do that. Get it through your head that movie feats decree Indy the superior h2h combatant, by far. If you disagree, then give me some MOVIE FEATS, H2H movie feats that proves McClane is the better H2H fighter. Remember, they are ina metal room with bare walls here, nothing around to use, just h2h to the death. You cant, because they dont exist.

So you admit that they are similar feats wise, yet claim none existant dispairity...? But McClane is more adaptable and experienced in all things past Indy's time..

Lets see Indy aginst Ninja Chick. She would have owned him, and as Indy is unlikely to know how even to start the SUV, Matthew and the East coast would be doomed. (We see nothing to say that he could survive the freefall McClane had, without a big rubber dingy, of course.)

Indy fell to the ground under the weight of his own legs in KOTCS.

Pathetic.

That guy would die of broken neck the fisrt decent McClanian shot.

The only time he h2hs someone who knows what they're doing, they f*** him up. Be they Big Temple Guards, German fatties who jab, or whomever.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Then McClane smashes Indy (who has less endurance to his name than McClane) round the face several times, then smashes his head all over the hard, meatl floors and walls. Hell. Even the ceiling. Hard to do when he is knocked the **** out with ONE PUNCH. haermm

Do us a favor, stop munching on McClanes nutcheese and be objective, look at the movie feats, which prove without a doubt one thing. Indy is a better h2h combatant. You reek of fanboyism.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Dude you havent answered me, so we arent going there til then. Ask again?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yeah, Indy is old in all his movies Indy performs h2h feats McClane can only dream of. BTW, OLD Indy pwned three russians h2h in seconds. Hell, Old Indy is a better h2h combatant than ANY McClane. Old McClane couldnt even handle a single woman h2h. Marion Ravenwood would pwn McClane, judging by movie feats. haermm

Real life? crylaugh Its the MOVIES, dude, geez, get with it. Indy KO's guys left and right with one frigging punch, McClane cant do that. Get it through your head that movie feats decree Indy the superior h2h combatant, by far. If you disagree, then give me some MOVIE FEATS, H2H movie feats that proves McClane is the better H2H fighter. Remember, they are ina metal room with bare walls here, nothing around to use, just h2h to the death. You cant, because they dont exist.

Oh, disregarding real life fight dynamics totally...?


OK then.

Pure film Logic only...?

Then McClane uses Indy aged head on the walls, they become warm, wet and red very quickly, McClane steals his pension book.


EDIT:
Hahahah I just realised the irony that thats actually unavoidable for Indy in either Film Logic scenario OR real life fight dynamics.

Woah woah woah!

No one insults Indy Jones

Steven Spielberg did, with the making of his last movie.......

RJ does by having him fight McClane.

All we know is Indy would definitely PWN Riggs.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Oh, disregarding real life fight dynamics totally...? If it is done onscreen, it is law here.


Nice try, but since Indy is the superior h2h combatant, this aint gonna happen. Movie feats prove this, you are just McBlinded by your man love for Mac.


Thats why it's a movie. It aint real life.


On punch KO, dude. McClane misses his mark all the time with punches, Indy will make him miss and BAM Mac is down for the count. Fact.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Steven Spielberg did, with the making of his last movie.......

RJ does by having him fight McClane.

All we know is Indy would definitely PWN Riggs. The movie was meh, but Indy was his usual badass self, and in his old age would hand Mac his ass on a silver platter.

Yeah, it really is an insult to Indy to pit him against someone so inferior to him. What a waste of Indys time.

Yeah...The pussy ones, yeah.

McClane KILLS his enemies, not just knocking them out.

Truer FACT than yours.


Oh he was his usual bad ass self...?

Oh well then....why didncha say so...?
Your boy was defeated by his on weight, and maybe arthritis in the legs.

McClane can win against his own legs.

Indy can't.

McClane wins.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Yeah...The pussy ones, yeah.

McClane KILLS his enemies, not just knocking them out.

Truer FACT than yours.


Oh he was his usual bad ass self...?

Oh well then....why didncha say so...?
Your boy was defeated by his on weight, and maybe arthritis in the legs.

McClane can win against his own legs.

Indy can't.

McClane wins. This fight is to the KO. I made the thread, I make the rules.

Yeah, he was his usual badass self. He took on three soldiers half his age and pwned them in seconds. Thst in itself supercedes any h2h feat Mac ever showed. No? Prove me wrong.

Dunno what you are referring to with the legs statement.

Then since there is no evidence to suggest that McClane can be knocked out...

Indy is in a fight against a man never once knocked out in any shape or form, who will never stop punching, using the basics of boxing (proven to work against Indy even when used by an old fat german.) and who will luck out, and has age advantages, kill ratio advantages, and would have beaten all of Indy's opponents.

Given that McClane has been tested more than Indy, and dealt with far more than Indy would be able to dole out, McClane wins in emphatic, if eventual fashion.

Also, the Mac not caring about the rules- if we go by movie feats- pulls out a duct taped beretta and shoots Indy through the head with both bullets left in it.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Then since there is no evidence to suggest that McClane can be knocked out... Nice try.

Doesnt matter if Mac has never been KO'd, all that matters is that Indy displays punching power that is far more than what Mac can muster.

Fat old German? Dude, he was HUGE, and obviously a trained boxer.

Age advantage? You do realize that this is Indy from all 4 movies, right?

Kill ratio means shit here.

Mac kicked ass in his environment, Indy in his. Indy could not have saved Nakatomi plaza, while Mac could not have beaten the nazis and tanks in TLC. What is important here is pugilism, who is better at it, who punches harder, who has a better fight record. Indy.

Mac has never been shown being near the h2h fighter that Indy is, movie feats prove this. All you are doing is talking circles because you want your boy to win.

No. No gun here.

Yes I realise that the Indy model that fights McClane is from all four movies and thats where your argument commits suicide.

All this h2h superiority you claim is load of old bollocks.
Indy has a good straight left and a right cross.
Thats all McClane would have to watch out for.

Mcclane has fifty extra years of fighting hindsight in his training, making it advantage: MacClane in the 'who'll be dishing out what'
department. Indy'll be having to deal with Jabs, (BIG problem for Indy, from what we see on Raiders) Hooks, Uppercuts, Crosses, Elbows, different strangles/chokes, police training locks etc

Indy: 3 movies where he is decent, but already feeling age come along, 1 where he is an aged buffoon who my nan could've laid out and he cant even stand properly unassisted sometimes.

McClane Bad motherf**ker in all four movies, killing small town's population on screen when he is done.

Kinda puts THAT in perspective...huh?

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Yes I realise that the Indy model that fights McClane is from all four movies and thats where your argument commits suicide.

All this h2h superiority you claim is load of old bollocks.
Indy has a good straight left and a right cross.
Thats all McClane would have to watch out for.

Mcclane has fifty extra years of fighting hindsight in his training, making it advantage: MacClane in the 'who'll be dishing out what'
department. Indy'll be having to deal with Jabs, (BIG problem for Indy, from what we see on Raiders) Hooks, Uppercuts, Crosses, Elbows, different strangles/chokes, police training locks etc

Indy 3: movies where he is decent, but already feeling age come along, 1 where he is an aged buffoon who my nan could've laid out and he cant even stand properly unassisted sometimes.

McClane Bad motherf**ker in all four movies, killing small town's population on screen when he is done.

Kinda puts THAT in perspective...huh? Really now? Got a scene where Indy needs assistance standing, or are you just spouting nonsense again?

Indy is old in the last Indy movie, and he still displays badassery that Mac doesnt.

Indy was born July 1, 1899. Here are the movies and the years they are dated in:

Raiders: 1936, Indy is 37
Temple: 1935, Indy is 36
Crusade: 1938, Indy is 39
Kingdom of the Crystal Skull: 1957, Indy is 58

So yeah, he is only an old man in the last one. Facts are fun, arent they?

The h2h claim isnt bollocks, its right there in the movies. H2H combat is H2H combat, regardless if it is 1938 or 1998. You saying Indy couldnt handle or dispense a choke hold? And please, list a scene in DH where Mac is shown training in all these moves you are talking about. Mac is a brawler, his style aint pretty, plain and simple. Indy throws harder punches, and is at least as tough as Mac.

I believe that would be just before the "comedy" gophers laugh at him after he gets of that rocket.

And other little bits of much 'over hammered by the script' incompetance when swinging on his whip through a windsreen.

Wouldnt have phased McClane.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Really now? Got a scene where Indy needs assistance standing, or are you just spouting nonsense again?

Indy is old in the last Indy movie, and he still displays badassery that Mac doesnt.

Indy was born July 1, 1899. Here are the movies and the years they are dated in:

Raiders: 1936, Indy is 37
Temple: 1935, Indy is 36
Crusade: 1938, Indy is 39
Kingdom of the Crystal Skull: 1957, Indy is 58

So yeah, he is only an old man in the last one. Facts are fun, arent they?

The h2h claim isnt bollocks, its right there in the movies. H2H combat is H2H combat, regardless if it is 1938 or 1998. You saying Indy couldnt handle or dispense a choke hold? And please, list a scene in DH where Mac is shown training in all these moves you are talking about. Mac is a brawler, his style aint pretty, plain and simple. Indy throws harder punches, and is at least as tough as Mac.

Yeah but he can't beat McClane whos endurance feats are WAY beyond old man Jones.

All Jones can do is hit with basic punches that McClane deals with all the time.
And he would NOT be equipped for newer more modern techniques.
Wanna see the diffence between a 1930s heavy weight then compare their average to someone like Tyson Lewis all the way through to Joe Calzaghe... Ali....

If you do that and you claim not to see what I mean, then I really think theres no need for the debate to continue, as all semblence of common sense would have been thrown out.

And by the time of Indy 4 (and 5 which has just been greenlit, sadly)
All John'd have to do is send in his wife or daughter to brutalise the frail old pensioner Jones.

Indy isn't exactly a fair fighter, he bites, he kicks, he uses his environment just as McClane does. Plus he throws a stronger punch than Mac.

Endurance? Dude, was trapped with the Ark, escaped, fought the guys at the plane, chased down the nazi convoy, was shot, was dragged under a truck, reclaimed the ark, escaped the nazi search on the freighter, swam out to the sub, held onto the sub as it crossed the ocean, KO's a guy and stole his uniform, then tracked the nazis down with an RPG through the desert. That pretty much buries any endurance feat Mac showed. And thats only Raiders.

Here, a testimony to Indy's endurance and fighting prowess:



Qy6hIJZS7oI&feature=related

Headlocks, cheap shots, whatever it takes to get the job done.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Yeah but he can't beat McClane whos endurance feats are WAY beyond old man Jones.

All Jones can do is hit with basic punches that McClane deals with all the time.
And he would NOT be equipped for newer more modern techniques.
Wanna see the diffence between a 1930s heavy weight then compare their average to someone like Tyson Lewis all the way through to Joe Calzaghe... Ali....

If you do that and you claim not to see what I mean, then I really think theres no need for the debate to continue, as all semblence of common sense would have been thrown out.

And by the time of Indy 4 (and 5 which has just been greenlit, sadly)
All John'd have to do is send in his wife or daughter to brutalise the frail old pensioner Jones.
"YippieeKiyay motherf**ker!" *Brandishes assault weapon*


*Indy shoots quicker with revolver from first film*

"You were saying?"

And here, taking on two armed men, pwning them both, judo toss anyone?


sHtdnw5fuw4&feature=related

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Here, a testimony to Indy's endurance and fighting prowess:



Qy6hIJZS7oI&feature=related

Headlocks, cheap shots, whatever it takes to get the job done.

Dude, Indy is definitely the bigger badass than McClane. Anyone who argues that is just arguing the wrong stuff. McClane wouldn't bother doing any of the shit that Indy does. He is, in all actuality...,a lazy bastard. He just happens to always be in the wrong places at the right times. The only reason he succeeds is because he's a good guy with steel fists and stamina of a John Henry. Indy lives for that danger shit, Danger just kind of follows McClane around like an ear ache following a tooth problem.

Now, just the same can be said for Indy, the dude is super retarded smart and all that other good stuff but he goes looking for danger, dude. I'd take Indy in a war and everything else except for terrorist attacks and street fights. I know Indy grew up as a fighter and even during that era, pugilism was the common corse of problem solving. Granted, Indys' resume rivals that of Jesus Christ and that's why he is my man because Christ is his idol (even if he doesn't know it) but McClane grew up on the streets of hard knocks...,New York. This is quite possibly the grudge match of the century. Appollo Vs Rocky but i think McClane has the edge because after a certain point, the dude just says fuk it and goes crazy, not caring what happens. Thats why McClane will be the one standing above Indy at the end of this match, either that or they just both decide to stop mashin the shit out of each other and get a hotel room so they can crunch their toes in the carpet together.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Dude, Indy is definitely the bigger badass than McClane. Anyone who argues that is just arguing the wrong stuff. McClane wouldn't bother doing any of the shit that Indy does. He is, in all actuality...,a lazy bastard. He just happens to always be in the wrong places at the right times. The only reason he succeeds is because he's a good guy with steel fists and stamina of a John Henry. Indy lives for that danger shit, Danger just kind of follows McClane around like an ear ache following a tooth problem.

Now, just the same can be said for Indy, the dude is super retarded smart and all that other good stuff but he goes looking for danger, dude. I'd take Indy in a war and everything else except for terrorist attacks and street fights. I know Indy grew up as a fighter and even during that era, pugilism was the common corse of problem solving. Granted, Indys' resume rivals that of Jesus Christ and that's why he is my man because Christ is his idol (even if he doesn't know it) but McClane grew up on the streets of hard knocks...,New York. This is quite possibly the grudge match of the century. Appollo Vs Rocky but i think McClane has the edge because after a certain point, the dude just says fuk it and goes crazy, not caring what happens. Thats why McClane will be the one standing above Indy at the end of this match, either that or they just both decide to stop mashin the shit out of each other and get a hotel room so they can crunch their toes in the carpet together.

I agree with all you said except for the last part.

Terrorist attack? I'll take Mac.
Taking on an armored column? Gimmee Indy.

They have their individual strengths/weaknesses, they are the best at what they do while in their element. Put Indy in Nakatomi plaza and he gets pwned. Put Mac in the race for the Ark against the Nazis and he gets pwned.

But in the end, I see Indy as a better fighter, tougher, more endurance, and a better improviser than Mac. Indy literally is the master of "Making shit up as he goes." You think he knew what he was doing when he boarded the Nazi sub? Nope. He got there and was like "Oh shit WTF OK now I do this." Plus you gotta remember that Indy accomplished all his missions without the advanced weaponry Mac had.

Know what would have been cool? The scene from Raiders, in Marion's bar, the shootout. Imagine if there were like 30 Nazis there, and Indy and Mac were teaming up to fight them together haermm

Then the question would be how many would McClane leave alive for Indy to kill...?

I would have said the guy with massive proven kill ratios in pressure combat and survival against WAY more advanced opponents would be the sane choice.......McClane.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Indy isn't exactly a fair fighter, he bites, he kicks, he uses his environment just as McClane does. Plus he throws a stronger punch than Mac.

Endurance? Dude, was trapped with the Ark, escaped, fought the guys at the plane, chased down the nazi convoy, was shot, was dragged under a truck, reclaimed the ark, escaped the nazi search on the freighter, swam out to the sub, held onto the sub as it crossed the ocean, KO's a guy and stole his uniform, then tracked the nazis down with an RPG through the desert. That pretty much buries any endurance feat Mac showed. And thats only Raiders.

Unproven. We see him punch out glass jawed Nazi conscripts and a multitudes of people who are fine preventing starved kids from escaping a mine, but clearly that doent work on FIGHTERS.

Look what happened against the Plane Mechanic/boxer.
If he was as hard as you say, he would have been able to do much more against that guy, without getting his ass kicked so badly primarily BY A JAB if he could take shots heavyweight or no.
And why wasnt he slipping the jab, and countering the bigger slower guy, if he were that good...?

The big fat dude in Temple Doom, owned Indy until Indy got lucky enough that the guy accedentally died in the rollers, which was clearly a good thing, cause Indy was in the shit there too.

Suffice to Say, that McClane would never have been owned by that little old looking dude out that windscreen in Raiders.
It was great drama no doubt. But if McClane was at any point owned by Ninja Chick, one of the many Indy equivalents was getting douched so bad by that singlar scrawney troop.

But like you say, RJ feats from all four....

So Indy is a frail pensioner.

That would be like saying "Well I could send in McClane to efficiently destroy that German force, but I'll send in someone the age of Sean Connery in TLC instead, to sort 'em out.

Any past endurance feats are partly negotiated by the fact that Indy cant take SHIT now.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth

Any past endurance feats are partly negotiated by the fact that Indy cant take SHIT now.

I'd like to point out(the obvious) that on the other end, McClane is like a fine wine, he gets better with age.

One example: When he jumped out of the speeding cruiser right before it went masterfully flying into the copter, he took a vicious beating, even the kid looked in awe and said "are you alright, do you need a hospital?", yet McClane walked if off stoically, because he doesn't let pain bother him when theres still work to be done.

Absolutely. Indy would have been in hospital for 3 months with a broken hip from that, so elderly is he.

Indy was born July 1, 1899. Here are the movies and the years they are dated in:

Raiders: 1936, Indy is 37
Temple: 1935, Indy is 36
Crusade: 1938, Indy is 39
Kingdom of the Crystal Skull: 1957, Indy is 58


John McClane was born May 23, 1955

DH1 takes place in 1987, Mac is 32
DH2 takes place in 1990, Mac is 35
DH3 takes place in 1995, Mac is 40
DH4 takes place in 2007, Mac is 52

They are roughly the same age. Indy's average age is 42-43, Mac's is the same. So please, no more talk of Indy being a decrepit old fart.

Yeah but McClane is in an entirely different league to Indy.

Modern fitness and excercise are just one of many reasons.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Yeah but McClane is in an entirely different league to Indy.

Modern fitness and excercise are just one of many reasons. I would say they are pretty even.

Theres a clear difference in Die Hard 4.0 performance and Indy performance.

At least McClane can still stand assisted and isnt showing the early signs of dementia.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Yeah but McClane is in an entirely different league to Indy.

Modern fitness and excercise are just one of many reasons. Dude, stop. Just stop. Indy is in at least as good shape as Mac. Indy wins his h2h battles h2h. Indy throws one punch KO punches. You can deny it all you want, but you know, deep down, that Indy beats your hero 10/10 here.

Nah.

Your old guy, cant even stand.
GRAVITY is beating him.

And McClane had no embarrassing son, betraying his lack, like Indy did.

Face it. You set this up but, its technically euphanasia for Indy.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Nah.

Your old guy, cant even stand.
GRAVITY is beating him.

And McClane had no embarrassing son, betraying his lack, like Indy did.

Face it. You set this up but, its technically euphanasia for Indy. Still waiting on on explaination on why Indy cant stand. And at least Indy's son wasnt trapped and captured in an elevator.

So am I. It was disgraceful.

Thats 'cause she was a girl, dumbass.


And she was still tougher than Mutt 'weepy for the dead greys' the Pussy.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
So am I. It was disgraceful.

Thats 'cause she was a girl, dumbass.


And she was still tougher than Mutt 'weepy for the dead greys' the Pussy. BS, Mutt would rape her with his sword. Lucy ka bob, anyone?

While he was ****ing around with his sword, Lucy'd just shoot him.

Sound ironically familiar..?

Yeah too bad Lucy is never shown using a gun. For all we know she sucks ass with a gun.